I love the s650 and I don’t mind the dash to be honest. When I compare the interior of the s650 base GT to the s550 base gt with that tiny screen. To me I prefer the interior of the base s650 to the base s550.
Well the next generation was supposed to be all new and on a new platform but Ford cost cut the hell out of out and didnt want to dump money into the S650. So they used the R&D they had already done with the S550
… in order to build an inferior 550 and call it 650? Honestly, it’s such a step away from Mustang I wonder if they don’t have the same people on the team anymore or something. Why would they “update” to such a pedestrian look? Does anyone on the 650 team drive a Mustang from the last 10 years?
They’re trying to appeal to the mass market, they want females and lgbt etc buying this stuff because they don’t sell as much as they would like.
They’re clearly moving away from the old hetero/macho muscle branding they used to have.
The reason people here prefer the s550 rn is because most people in this sub still have one. Same shit happened when they dropped the s550, s197 owners were like "we got the last true mustang" and other goofy shit like that.
I drive a 6th gen and agree that the 5th gen looks better. Maybe not better than the first, but when you’re factoring performance as well definitely takes the cake. Hope to see a 5th to 7th gen body swap soon
This has absolutely nothing to do with it. I sold my 2014 GT for a Mach 1, and I still think the 2014 GT looks better. I’d also say my wife’s 07 GT500 is a better looking car than my Mach 1, it just doesn’t have the same creature comforts or interior quality. The s650 read end is the most hideous thing I’ve seen on a mustang ever
The S197 guys may have been right. Maybe that was the last model to really look like a 67 mustang but the s550 was a great upgrade and the front and back still get the job done with technical improvements inside that included nice round mustang gauges. The S650 is none of that. It’s a downgrade in style. The used 550s will be the way for a few years I guess.
Same. Sedan looking exterior, non-sporty interior with no gauges and hardly any buttons? Fail. No thanks. Not paying more for less. A 2020-2023 is the sweet spot, as of now, imo
When my bought my S550 last year, I was on the fence about waiting for the S650 to debut. I chose a (new old stock) 2022 GT/CS on a killer financing deal instead of waiting. No regerts.
first let me say I agree with your opinion on the car in alot of areas. But to clarify for you, for me my point is that the dark horse has a better exterior look than the regular gt, and to go along with your point, it's not stepping forward enough... and then that price...jeez.
Not at all.. I like the dark horse. I'm saying that people might feel that it should be the gt, and that's where the disappointment is. I agree with you that things aren't moving forward enough.
Honestly, I love almost everything about the Dark Horse. I don’t understand the hate it gets. It handles really well, and I really like the way the exterior and interior look. The only thing that seems a little disappointing is the power. 500hp is a lot, but for the price of the Dark Horse vs the GT, I think there only being a 5hp difference is a little disappointing. Also, one other option I would have liked to have had on the DH, since you cannot get it in a convertible would have been a moon roof.
Yeah, for the few extra horsepower the Dark Horse has, it doesn’t make sense why it wouldn’t come in a convertible. I love driving a convertible, and I really wish they would have made it in a hardtop convertible at the very least.
Well this is actually what my theory is based upon. I'm not saying the dark horse is getting the hate for being a dark horse. I'm saying it's getting hate because it's priced like a gt350 and it should just be the gt.
But the Gt350 is gone and you really only have used inventory with unknown histories and an engine that is known for needing proper break in and proper care and maintenance. FWIW the dark horse meets or beats the Gt350 on a track. The biggest factor is the Gt350 has a unique sounding engine and the ability to tune and mod to your heart’s desire.
I can see why they would price it that high, but I think the GT350 is a better car in terms of performance. There’s more technology that goes into the Dark Horse and with the rising costs of inflation since the beginning of covid. In all honesty, if I could drive a manual still, I would have bought a GT350R instead of my Dark Horse. Don’t get me wrong, the Dark Horse is an amazing beast in its own way, but I don’t think it can compete with a GT350, performance wise.
Surprisingly it does compete. The dark horse meets or beats the GT350 on track stock for stock. Now the 350 can be modded and tuned where the dark horse is far more limited. There is something to be said about buying a used 350 with unknown owner history too. Did they break it in correctly? Did they warm it up before revving it past 4k? Did they keep a proper eye on the oil levels and add as needed? All factors because the voodoo engine in the 350 simply needs a different level of attention and care. I can totally see where someone would rather just buy new at that produce point. The manual is the same between both cars too.
It is possible to find great deals on well maintained GT350s from private sellers though so there is that.
Generally as a product ages, the cost goes down. In this case, the cost went up and the performance didn't change much at all. In fact, you could argue that the "performance" of the interior actually went down due to the lack of physical controls that customers overwhelmingly want to have. I don't keep a close eye on sales numbers, but last I saw the S650s were moving slower than the last year of the S550, which seems like a disaster for a new model year.
Here is my take on the S650 as a 2013 GT owner :
I always prefer the interior to be driver focused with easy to read information, and quick controls where I either don't have my eyes off the road to use them or, worst case, I can find them at a quick glance.
This type of driver focused cockpit is not found on the S650 so that would be my only negative about the interior. Even now as I'm thinking of upgrading my infotainment on my S197, I'm choosing to keep physical controls while adding a touch screen even though a tesla style screen with no physical controls is available.
My other only other complaint with the S650 would be the locked ECU which severely limits aftermarket. When you consider the Mustang's massive aftermarket choices compared to every other car out there, the locked ECU starts making less sense.
Regarding the exterior, the car looks fine, very Mustang-ish. I don't find it ugly at all like some people in here. I also don't mind it being an evolution of the S550 platform; it's solid and still competitive.
With all that said, if I were in the market for a Mustang, I'd try to find a Mach 1 simply because my 2 cons are deal breakers. However, if Ford were to fix those 2 issues then I'd jump on a Dark Horse in a heartbeat.
Cheers.
No shit, normally in capitalism the markets balance each other out, but ever since Covid allowed companies that sell things to mark them up and people have shown they are willing to pay those regarded prices they now know they can push the envelope 10x further than they ever have before. The only way we get back to getting semi decent sh!t for our money is buy not buying there plastic reskin of the last years model. The darkhorse costing as much as it does and only being 500hp with a plastic ass interior is a JOKE. I can buy a BASE model GT from 2016 throw 10-12k at it and now I have a car that BEATS a DH for 20k less. With an interior arguable more unique and higher end, sorry but DH is just an absolute cash grab scam to me.
Didn't really get any more power
Looks like Camaro/Accord
Gimmicks like the dual screen dash, remote rev, drift stick...
Locked ECU really fucked the aftermarket
I love everything about s650. Some folks create made up hate just to push their own agenda. These people are in minority. Instead of creating such posts can we focus on being grateful and celebrate the continued existence of such affordable and lovely car? Or you all haters want to go buy 911?
I'm not a hater at all. I'm a mustang guy. The core of my post is just that I feel like the dark horse should have just been the regular gt. I even stated that it's great that they still made the v8 w manual.
There was another post where most people agreed that the S650 front end was better looking, but the rear end and interior are ugly.
I thought the S550 refresh rear was ugly at first, but now I like it as much as the original. So maybe everyone will change their minds about the S650 rear.
The bigger problem S650's have is inflation and high interest rates. Making a used S550 a much better deal.
Interest rates are not high at all. I just got 2.9% for 48 months and that's through Ford. The inflation and cost of the cars are a problem but interest rates are wayyyyyy worse on used cars than new.
For me personally I’m not a real “Mustang guy” even though over the years there are certain Mustangs that I really would love to own one day but I’m not a die hard fan. So it makes it easy for me to admit my dislike of the S650. Personally I believe they took out all of the clean body lines of the S550, put absolutely zero effort into the interior (just stick in two huge screens, they won’t know the difference!), added complexity by adding dual throttle bodies and intakes with virtually no power gains over a tuned gen 3, locked the ECU, and stuck an F150-esque steering wheel in it and called it a day. Oh, and jacked the price sky high. And got rid of the V6 option.
A fully optioned GT350 was just shy of $70k in 2019. A fully optioned Dark Horse is about the same. Which one gives you better performance, better looks, more pedigree, etc.. not to mention the Dark Horse weighs like 4000lbs. When the heck did that happen?
All companies miss the mark from time to time but IMO Ford completely blew the S650
Interior and exterior design. Subjective for sure, and some people might warm up to them like I have. All it takes is some basic mods.
A splitter and a blank grille on a s650 solves a lot of problems, but not that rear. Hard not to look at it when the s550 had such a great one.
Screens are good, but lack of physical HVAC is annoying. Something I used to be able to adjust while driving now confined to stops or lazy roads as they lack muscle memory and feedback.
A simple cowl around the screens would add so much for so little money. Just look at the Saleen interior. This is the base so it has that weird little screen gap thing, but the cowl adds so much. I don't know why they left it so barren and taped together feeling. Slapping screens on the dash is NOT the way.
As for the Darkhorse? The big winner is the transmission. Everyone wanted the Tremec in the base mustang, but the price jump probably would have been substantion in an already inflating market. The Getrag is.... ok. I've never had problems with mine, but they have a reputation. The base needed this as an option to succeed beyond the s550, even if it ate into Darkhorse sales.
I just simply think a GT350R looks better inside and out over all. That doesn’t mean I hate the Dark Horse. I just prefer the S550 body’s of the updated S650 design. I don’t think the 1995 mustang is good looking at all but the mustang terminator of the same generation I’ve always thought is great looking. Not every refresh or generation is going to knock it out of the park
I don’t really care much about a dark horse or whatever … but the 2024 exterior looks like a sedan, to me. They removed a lot of the sporty looks. Combined with the dash having zero gauges in favor of some screens all the way across sure doesn’t look much like a mustang anymore. The 2024 sure isn’t as bad as the Fox body horror show in the 80s but it has a lot less appeal than the 550s, to me.
The dark horse is a track trim for the mustang. It wasn't meant to be a super big boost in power and performance over the GT.
It was made for the track
My only issue is the interior. I can however see myself in a dark horse in the future. I currently have a camaro SS 1le and reviews seem to say the dark horse is a tad bit more of a drivers car than my 1le. It’s also faster. Just wish it was cheaper but that’s the world we live in. EVERYTHING is overpriced.
I’m curious if in the future the interior will keep me from jumping into one.
Neither here nor there, but regarding the power differential between the dark horse and GT, is there a theoretical optimum HP level that Mustang fans will be happy with moving forward? I imagine that generation over generation HP increases will have to cap out at a certain point to keep the car relatively attainable. Not saying that we’ve reached that limit with the S650, but if not straight HP increases, what will sell these cars from a performance perspective moving forward? I don’t foresee us getting 600 HP GTs out of the box at an attainable price point a couple generations from now.
It’s questions like these that will determine what customers deem as acceptable upgrade in the future.
I got my new 22 GT in the early spring of 23. Even if the S650 was available at that time id still pick the S550. The S550 is one of the last modern cars with the infotainment actually embedded in the center stack and not in tablet form stuck onto the dash. I have the digital dash as well which is a perfect mix of new and old. Its still embedded into the dash board like a traditional cluster. As for performance, idk. I believe all they did was add an additional airbox and i heard its more for the EPA and not for performance. I have no regrets with it. The mustang and the wrx have had similar stories with people not liking the new model year and the older models being more popular at release.
It’s not that odd, I am 99% the hate will **diminish** a year or two from now similar to other refreshes… *BUT* there is a difference.. The hate will *never* be gone…
Too many backwards progression were made with the 2024… it’s not something that can be ignored, but can be looked past as time goes on.
I love the s650 and I don’t mind the dash to be honest. When I compare the interior of the s650 base GT to the s550 base gt with that tiny screen. To me I prefer the interior of the base s650 to the base s550.
Well the next generation was supposed to be all new and on a new platform but Ford cost cut the hell out of out and didnt want to dump money into the S650. So they used the R&D they had already done with the S550
… in order to build an inferior 550 and call it 650? Honestly, it’s such a step away from Mustang I wonder if they don’t have the same people on the team anymore or something. Why would they “update” to such a pedestrian look? Does anyone on the 650 team drive a Mustang from the last 10 years?
They’re trying to appeal to the mass market, they want females and lgbt etc buying this stuff because they don’t sell as much as they would like. They’re clearly moving away from the old hetero/macho muscle branding they used to have.
LGBT? seriously? That’s why the car has been emasculated? Do you have some company memo showing that?
Oh ok no I’m wrong they’re making the car more feminine because that’s what guys that drive muscle cars want. Yep that’s totally the reason why.
I was just asking if you had some inside knowledge that 2024 Mustang was intended to be the new Subaru?
Which is a dumb question. I don’t have insider knowledge that the sky is blue, I just look up and there it is, blue.
Not everyone is smart, man
The reason people here prefer the s550 rn is because most people in this sub still have one. Same shit happened when they dropped the s550, s197 owners were like "we got the last true mustang" and other goofy shit like that.
s197 is the best looking mustang. I’ll die on this hill.
I drive a 6th gen and agree that the 5th gen looks better. Maybe not better than the first, but when you’re factoring performance as well definitely takes the cake. Hope to see a 5th to 7th gen body swap soon
I won't argue that at all. 05-09 is peak mustang styling-wise and the 10-14s look very nice as well.
my dream is to keep driving my 09 GT every summer, and buy a 16’ eco boost for winter
I'll get your back on that one
This has absolutely nothing to do with it. I sold my 2014 GT for a Mach 1, and I still think the 2014 GT looks better. I’d also say my wife’s 07 GT500 is a better looking car than my Mach 1, it just doesn’t have the same creature comforts or interior quality. The s650 read end is the most hideous thing I’ve seen on a mustang ever
The S197 guys may have been right. Maybe that was the last model to really look like a 67 mustang but the s550 was a great upgrade and the front and back still get the job done with technical improvements inside that included nice round mustang gauges. The S650 is none of that. It’s a downgrade in style. The used 550s will be the way for a few years I guess.
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Same. Sedan looking exterior, non-sporty interior with no gauges and hardly any buttons? Fail. No thanks. Not paying more for less. A 2020-2023 is the sweet spot, as of now, imo
When my bought my S550 last year, I was on the fence about waiting for the S650 to debut. I chose a (new old stock) 2022 GT/CS on a killer financing deal instead of waiting. No regerts.
Good move. Great car and there won’t be any more great financing deals for quite a while.
first let me say I agree with your opinion on the car in alot of areas. But to clarify for you, for me my point is that the dark horse has a better exterior look than the regular gt, and to go along with your point, it's not stepping forward enough... and then that price...jeez.
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Not at all.. I like the dark horse. I'm saying that people might feel that it should be the gt, and that's where the disappointment is. I agree with you that things aren't moving forward enough.
Honestly, I love almost everything about the Dark Horse. I don’t understand the hate it gets. It handles really well, and I really like the way the exterior and interior look. The only thing that seems a little disappointing is the power. 500hp is a lot, but for the price of the Dark Horse vs the GT, I think there only being a 5hp difference is a little disappointing. Also, one other option I would have liked to have had on the DH, since you cannot get it in a convertible would have been a moon roof.
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Yeah, for the few extra horsepower the Dark Horse has, it doesn’t make sense why it wouldn’t come in a convertible. I love driving a convertible, and I really wish they would have made it in a hardtop convertible at the very least.
The dark horse IMO is kind of the Gt350 and Mach 1 replacement which never had a vert available. More track oriented in some ways.
Well this is actually what my theory is based upon. I'm not saying the dark horse is getting the hate for being a dark horse. I'm saying it's getting hate because it's priced like a gt350 and it should just be the gt.
But the Gt350 is gone and you really only have used inventory with unknown histories and an engine that is known for needing proper break in and proper care and maintenance. FWIW the dark horse meets or beats the Gt350 on a track. The biggest factor is the Gt350 has a unique sounding engine and the ability to tune and mod to your heart’s desire.
Excellent points
I can see why they would price it that high, but I think the GT350 is a better car in terms of performance. There’s more technology that goes into the Dark Horse and with the rising costs of inflation since the beginning of covid. In all honesty, if I could drive a manual still, I would have bought a GT350R instead of my Dark Horse. Don’t get me wrong, the Dark Horse is an amazing beast in its own way, but I don’t think it can compete with a GT350, performance wise.
Surprisingly it does compete. The dark horse meets or beats the GT350 on track stock for stock. Now the 350 can be modded and tuned where the dark horse is far more limited. There is something to be said about buying a used 350 with unknown owner history too. Did they break it in correctly? Did they warm it up before revving it past 4k? Did they keep a proper eye on the oil levels and add as needed? All factors because the voodoo engine in the 350 simply needs a different level of attention and care. I can totally see where someone would rather just buy new at that produce point. The manual is the same between both cars too. It is possible to find great deals on well maintained GT350s from private sellers though so there is that.
The dark horse with handling pack outperforms the GT in any trim stock for stock. There is that I guess
Generally as a product ages, the cost goes down. In this case, the cost went up and the performance didn't change much at all. In fact, you could argue that the "performance" of the interior actually went down due to the lack of physical controls that customers overwhelmingly want to have. I don't keep a close eye on sales numbers, but last I saw the S650s were moving slower than the last year of the S550, which seems like a disaster for a new model year.
I didn't even think about the physical controls. Very interesting issue to point out.
Look at the cost of the Dark Horse. The price its at its competing against the S550 GT500, ZL1s, Z06s, Hellcats. It’s a joke.
Agree 100 percent
I was bored at work yesterday and was looking up Mustangs online. Are people seriously buying dark horses for $75,000?!? 😂
Yep they are. Blows my mind
Here is my take on the S650 as a 2013 GT owner : I always prefer the interior to be driver focused with easy to read information, and quick controls where I either don't have my eyes off the road to use them or, worst case, I can find them at a quick glance. This type of driver focused cockpit is not found on the S650 so that would be my only negative about the interior. Even now as I'm thinking of upgrading my infotainment on my S197, I'm choosing to keep physical controls while adding a touch screen even though a tesla style screen with no physical controls is available. My other only other complaint with the S650 would be the locked ECU which severely limits aftermarket. When you consider the Mustang's massive aftermarket choices compared to every other car out there, the locked ECU starts making less sense. Regarding the exterior, the car looks fine, very Mustang-ish. I don't find it ugly at all like some people in here. I also don't mind it being an evolution of the S550 platform; it's solid and still competitive. With all that said, if I were in the market for a Mustang, I'd try to find a Mach 1 simply because my 2 cons are deal breakers. However, if Ford were to fix those 2 issues then I'd jump on a Dark Horse in a heartbeat. Cheers.
Excellent points.
No shit, normally in capitalism the markets balance each other out, but ever since Covid allowed companies that sell things to mark them up and people have shown they are willing to pay those regarded prices they now know they can push the envelope 10x further than they ever have before. The only way we get back to getting semi decent sh!t for our money is buy not buying there plastic reskin of the last years model. The darkhorse costing as much as it does and only being 500hp with a plastic ass interior is a JOKE. I can buy a BASE model GT from 2016 throw 10-12k at it and now I have a car that BEATS a DH for 20k less. With an interior arguable more unique and higher end, sorry but DH is just an absolute cash grab scam to me.
Didn't really get any more power Looks like Camaro/Accord Gimmicks like the dual screen dash, remote rev, drift stick... Locked ECU really fucked the aftermarket
The dual screen dash is so awful. I think the 12 in digital dash from the s550 was peak
I love everything about s650. Some folks create made up hate just to push their own agenda. These people are in minority. Instead of creating such posts can we focus on being grateful and celebrate the continued existence of such affordable and lovely car? Or you all haters want to go buy 911?
I'm not a hater at all. I'm a mustang guy. The core of my post is just that I feel like the dark horse should have just been the regular gt. I even stated that it's great that they still made the v8 w manual.
There was another post where most people agreed that the S650 front end was better looking, but the rear end and interior are ugly. I thought the S550 refresh rear was ugly at first, but now I like it as much as the original. So maybe everyone will change their minds about the S650 rear. The bigger problem S650's have is inflation and high interest rates. Making a used S550 a much better deal.
Interest rates are not high at all. I just got 2.9% for 48 months and that's through Ford. The inflation and cost of the cars are a problem but interest rates are wayyyyyy worse on used cars than new.
For me personally I’m not a real “Mustang guy” even though over the years there are certain Mustangs that I really would love to own one day but I’m not a die hard fan. So it makes it easy for me to admit my dislike of the S650. Personally I believe they took out all of the clean body lines of the S550, put absolutely zero effort into the interior (just stick in two huge screens, they won’t know the difference!), added complexity by adding dual throttle bodies and intakes with virtually no power gains over a tuned gen 3, locked the ECU, and stuck an F150-esque steering wheel in it and called it a day. Oh, and jacked the price sky high. And got rid of the V6 option. A fully optioned GT350 was just shy of $70k in 2019. A fully optioned Dark Horse is about the same. Which one gives you better performance, better looks, more pedigree, etc.. not to mention the Dark Horse weighs like 4000lbs. When the heck did that happen? All companies miss the mark from time to time but IMO Ford completely blew the S650
Interior and exterior design. Subjective for sure, and some people might warm up to them like I have. All it takes is some basic mods. A splitter and a blank grille on a s650 solves a lot of problems, but not that rear. Hard not to look at it when the s550 had such a great one. Screens are good, but lack of physical HVAC is annoying. Something I used to be able to adjust while driving now confined to stops or lazy roads as they lack muscle memory and feedback. A simple cowl around the screens would add so much for so little money. Just look at the Saleen interior. This is the base so it has that weird little screen gap thing, but the cowl adds so much. I don't know why they left it so barren and taped together feeling. Slapping screens on the dash is NOT the way. As for the Darkhorse? The big winner is the transmission. Everyone wanted the Tremec in the base mustang, but the price jump probably would have been substantion in an already inflating market. The Getrag is.... ok. I've never had problems with mine, but they have a reputation. The base needed this as an option to succeed beyond the s550, even if it ate into Darkhorse sales.
I just simply think a GT350R looks better inside and out over all. That doesn’t mean I hate the Dark Horse. I just prefer the S550 body’s of the updated S650 design. I don’t think the 1995 mustang is good looking at all but the mustang terminator of the same generation I’ve always thought is great looking. Not every refresh or generation is going to knock it out of the park
I don’t really care much about a dark horse or whatever … but the 2024 exterior looks like a sedan, to me. They removed a lot of the sporty looks. Combined with the dash having zero gauges in favor of some screens all the way across sure doesn’t look much like a mustang anymore. The 2024 sure isn’t as bad as the Fox body horror show in the 80s but it has a lot less appeal than the 550s, to me.
The dark horse is a track trim for the mustang. It wasn't meant to be a super big boost in power and performance over the GT. It was made for the track
My only issue is the interior. I can however see myself in a dark horse in the future. I currently have a camaro SS 1le and reviews seem to say the dark horse is a tad bit more of a drivers car than my 1le. It’s also faster. Just wish it was cheaper but that’s the world we live in. EVERYTHING is overpriced. I’m curious if in the future the interior will keep me from jumping into one.
Neither here nor there, but regarding the power differential between the dark horse and GT, is there a theoretical optimum HP level that Mustang fans will be happy with moving forward? I imagine that generation over generation HP increases will have to cap out at a certain point to keep the car relatively attainable. Not saying that we’ve reached that limit with the S650, but if not straight HP increases, what will sell these cars from a performance perspective moving forward? I don’t foresee us getting 600 HP GTs out of the box at an attainable price point a couple generations from now. It’s questions like these that will determine what customers deem as acceptable upgrade in the future.
I got my new 22 GT in the early spring of 23. Even if the S650 was available at that time id still pick the S550. The S550 is one of the last modern cars with the infotainment actually embedded in the center stack and not in tablet form stuck onto the dash. I have the digital dash as well which is a perfect mix of new and old. Its still embedded into the dash board like a traditional cluster. As for performance, idk. I believe all they did was add an additional airbox and i heard its more for the EPA and not for performance. I have no regrets with it. The mustang and the wrx have had similar stories with people not liking the new model year and the older models being more popular at release.
It’s not that odd, I am 99% the hate will **diminish** a year or two from now similar to other refreshes… *BUT* there is a difference.. The hate will *never* be gone… Too many backwards progression were made with the 2024… it’s not something that can be ignored, but can be looked past as time goes on.