no need to make fringe trades like this too early. It makes more sense to run it with two rookies while we still aren’t looking to push for the playoffs. This would be the type of trade to make after next year; there’s always going to be a cam johnson etc
I hear ya. I just like the idea of swapping out Keldon for a similar contract of someone that fills a need we have to develop Wemby more now, and don't mind it if it only costs us 2nd Rd picks or a lotto protected first that if not conveyed for a few yrs turns into 2 seconds or something
I guess it would largely depend on how the league values Keldon vs Barnes bc most draft consensus is that pick #13 this year is a diluted value of a normal end of lotto pick. Teams may think pick #16-22 or something next year or the year after is same or better than pick #13 this year
No he doesn't. age doesn't matter anymore when you're close to your ceiling. He's not going to magically become a good defender because of his size and frame and he has no inbetween game. Cam Johnson shoots near 40% for 3 and has better measurables as a defender. I don't know what value you think keldon has but he's at best a salary filler for a bigger piece.
it’s ab fit with wemby, keldon plays ball dominant and doesn’t have a consistent shot. It only makes sense for him to come off bench. Spurs have a history of not starting their 5 best players to look for success
Right. And if Wemby is the focus and future of our team, doesn't it make sense to surround him with guys that are a great fit to support him? Maybe Keldon can beat Cam in 1s or something but ultimately if Wemby is gonna play 35 mpg then prioritizing a guy that should only be playing 15 mpg bc he doesn't fit well with Wemby over a guy that can play 30+ mpg alongside Wemby doesn't make sense
I just don’t understand why you’d want to trade for a 28 year old when you can get more from keldon somewhere else. Especially given that the spurs are not competing now.
Mostly bc we need to show progress to keep Wemby happy and start putting a team together that makes sense. If it doesn't cost us much to do so, there is little risk. I don't think an undersized, ball dominant 24.5 y/o wing with a sketchy 3pt shot is gonna command much on the market. Unfortunately Keldon's value dropped a lot since it looks like his one year of near 40% three point shooting looks like a fluke compared to the year prior and 2 years following it. The year he put up 22ppg was on 51% eFG when the league average that year was 55% He's like a throwback early 2000s low efficiency bucket getter
You just made a case why the Nets would NOT want Keldon.
A few 2nds and a first pick that will never convey is reason to give up the better player (according to you)? LOL
I don't think you understand how this "trading" stuff is supposed to work my guy.
How are some people so fuckin dumb? They're different rosters with different incentives. The Nets are tearing their roster down for draft assets, younger players and cheaper contracts...which they get in this trade. This is a team that clearly values scorers, no matter their poor efficiency (i.e. Cam Thomas, Dennis Schroeder, Dariq Whitehead, etc).
Rumor is the Cavs really like Cam Johnson.
Spurs would be a good 3 way team here to route Cam + Keldon, or Collins, or Graham to the Cavs, picks to the Nets, and Garland to the Spurs.
I see the reasoning for getting Cam Johnson, but I don't know if the Spurs are ready to go shopping for role-players on the trade market at this point.
If Cam Johnson were a few years younger then I could see it, but at 28 he would be a better option for a team trying to push for a title run, not one still trying to shuffle through young players to see what they have.
Also not sure the Nets are interested in any contracts that are non-expiring as they probably kick start a rebuild.
I think we need to field a competent team ASAP to help Wemby and Devin's development and show Wemby his FO isn't intentionally throwing away seasons of his career. Most ideal 3&D wings aren't gonna be easy to acquire bc they're on teams that are trying to compete. Cam being 28 shouldn't really matter if the cost is a pick in the 20s. I do get that we need mins to evaluate our young guys but this is purely swapping for Keldon and Champagnie's mins. I don't think the FO needs more time to evaluate what they have in those guys. Also, the spacing Cam brings should actually help better evaluate guys like Sochan, Malaki, Blake, etc since they'll have more room to operate or have a reasonable kick out option to build up that good habit when they get doubled.
I agree, OP. Cam would be great for us and isn't placing all of our eggs in one basket. These subtle moves are the difference between winning titles and being mid forever.
I would also point out that when you say adding some picks, that could mean 2nd rounders and maybe the Charlotte pick.
Exactly. I'm not suggesting we'll be competing for a championship but we need to have a starting lineup that fits and makes our star shine as much as possible while showing yearly improvement to the wins column. I'm not suggesting giving up any actually valuable draft assets. The Sam Hinkie model of fielding the shittiest team possible for as long as possible doesn't work when it comes to keeping your star happy or getting your core players to play winning ball. If Wemby is constantly facing double teams, a packed paint and loses out on All NBA votes bc voters don't reward players on losing teams -- why would he want to stay with us? How does Devin improve his shot selection if he doesn't have teammates he can trust to hit their shots on kick outs?
BC they'd be getting younger, cheaper and adding draft assets. They seem to love scorers independent of their efficiency (Thomas, Schroeder, Whitehead) so get another one of those
You're right, teams should just not use them. Give em all away. Lotto protected firsts that I mentioned too. Hit rate in the 20s is low so who'd want one
no need to make fringe trades like this too early. It makes more sense to run it with two rookies while we still aren’t looking to push for the playoffs. This would be the type of trade to make after next year; there’s always going to be a cam johnson etc
I hear ya. I just like the idea of swapping out Keldon for a similar contract of someone that fills a need we have to develop Wemby more now, and don't mind it if it only costs us 2nd Rd picks or a lotto protected first that if not conveyed for a few yrs turns into 2 seconds or something
Straight on a value perspective i’ve heard ideas of cam for harrison barnes and #13. That would be worth more than your offer
I guess it would largely depend on how the league values Keldon vs Barnes bc most draft consensus is that pick #13 this year is a diluted value of a normal end of lotto pick. Teams may think pick #16-22 or something next year or the year after is same or better than pick #13 this year
why would we give picks and a younger better player for cam Johnson??
cause Cam Johnson shoots 3 and defends at an above average nba level.
we’re not competing for a championship now there’s genuinely no point
I'm not saying we trade for him. It's just the logic behind it. Keldon isn't the better player either.
keldon is 4 years younger and has much more trade value than cam johnson. I don’t like keldon on the spurs but he can fetch more than cam johnson
No he doesn't. age doesn't matter anymore when you're close to your ceiling. He's not going to magically become a good defender because of his size and frame and he has no inbetween game. Cam Johnson shoots near 40% for 3 and has better measurables as a defender. I don't know what value you think keldon has but he's at best a salary filler for a bigger piece.
I just checked two catch-all metrics and Cam Johnson has never posted a single season where was not a negative on defense.
I checked 538 and he was a + defender for 3 seasons on the suns. Can't check EPM passed this season but he was barely a negative on that end.
Bc Keldon isn't a better player? If Pop thinks Champagnie is a better fit to start than Keldon, and Cam is a much better version of Champagnie...
it’s ab fit with wemby, keldon plays ball dominant and doesn’t have a consistent shot. It only makes sense for him to come off bench. Spurs have a history of not starting their 5 best players to look for success
Right. And if Wemby is the focus and future of our team, doesn't it make sense to surround him with guys that are a great fit to support him? Maybe Keldon can beat Cam in 1s or something but ultimately if Wemby is gonna play 35 mpg then prioritizing a guy that should only be playing 15 mpg bc he doesn't fit well with Wemby over a guy that can play 30+ mpg alongside Wemby doesn't make sense
I just don’t understand why you’d want to trade for a 28 year old when you can get more from keldon somewhere else. Especially given that the spurs are not competing now.
Mostly bc we need to show progress to keep Wemby happy and start putting a team together that makes sense. If it doesn't cost us much to do so, there is little risk. I don't think an undersized, ball dominant 24.5 y/o wing with a sketchy 3pt shot is gonna command much on the market. Unfortunately Keldon's value dropped a lot since it looks like his one year of near 40% three point shooting looks like a fluke compared to the year prior and 2 years following it. The year he put up 22ppg was on 51% eFG when the league average that year was 55% He's like a throwback early 2000s low efficiency bucket getter
You just made a case why the Nets would NOT want Keldon. A few 2nds and a first pick that will never convey is reason to give up the better player (according to you)? LOL I don't think you understand how this "trading" stuff is supposed to work my guy.
How are some people so fuckin dumb? They're different rosters with different incentives. The Nets are tearing their roster down for draft assets, younger players and cheaper contracts...which they get in this trade. This is a team that clearly values scorers, no matter their poor efficiency (i.e. Cam Thomas, Dennis Schroeder, Dariq Whitehead, etc).
Rumor is the Cavs really like Cam Johnson. Spurs would be a good 3 way team here to route Cam + Keldon, or Collins, or Graham to the Cavs, picks to the Nets, and Garland to the Spurs.
I'd love that but think it'll take more draft assets to grab Garland, which I wouldn't be opposed to
I see the reasoning for getting Cam Johnson, but I don't know if the Spurs are ready to go shopping for role-players on the trade market at this point. If Cam Johnson were a few years younger then I could see it, but at 28 he would be a better option for a team trying to push for a title run, not one still trying to shuffle through young players to see what they have. Also not sure the Nets are interested in any contracts that are non-expiring as they probably kick start a rebuild.
I think we need to field a competent team ASAP to help Wemby and Devin's development and show Wemby his FO isn't intentionally throwing away seasons of his career. Most ideal 3&D wings aren't gonna be easy to acquire bc they're on teams that are trying to compete. Cam being 28 shouldn't really matter if the cost is a pick in the 20s. I do get that we need mins to evaluate our young guys but this is purely swapping for Keldon and Champagnie's mins. I don't think the FO needs more time to evaluate what they have in those guys. Also, the spacing Cam brings should actually help better evaluate guys like Sochan, Malaki, Blake, etc since they'll have more room to operate or have a reasonable kick out option to build up that good habit when they get doubled.
Not for cam no
Why would the Nets want Keldon Johnson? A few 2nd round picks is not going to convince a team that's rebuilding.
I agree, OP. Cam would be great for us and isn't placing all of our eggs in one basket. These subtle moves are the difference between winning titles and being mid forever. I would also point out that when you say adding some picks, that could mean 2nd rounders and maybe the Charlotte pick.
Exactly. I'm not suggesting we'll be competing for a championship but we need to have a starting lineup that fits and makes our star shine as much as possible while showing yearly improvement to the wins column. I'm not suggesting giving up any actually valuable draft assets. The Sam Hinkie model of fielding the shittiest team possible for as long as possible doesn't work when it comes to keeping your star happy or getting your core players to play winning ball. If Wemby is constantly facing double teams, a packed paint and loses out on All NBA votes bc voters don't reward players on losing teams -- why would he want to stay with us? How does Devin improve his shot selection if he doesn't have teammates he can trust to hit their shots on kick outs?
If you don’t give out any actually valuable draft assets, what do you expect to get in return?
A 28 y/o role player like Cam Johnson on a slightly overpriced 3 year guaranteed contract
And why would the nets do that?
BC they'd be getting younger, cheaper and adding draft assets. They seem to love scorers independent of their efficiency (Thomas, Schroeder, Whitehead) so get another one of those
Yes, 2nd round players def have a high chance to making the nba roster and good draft players
You're right, teams should just not use them. Give em all away. Lotto protected firsts that I mentioned too. Hit rate in the 20s is low so who'd want one
Well if they are so valued, why would the spurs give them up?
Can't tell if this is a bot