Wemby is putting up rookie stats like he’s a top 5 all time player. Way too early to say, but with the Spurs being the youngest team in the league they have a ton of time to grow.
Well in relevance to having an all-time career, Magic only had 11 before he left the league and he still had an incredible career. Wemby in 10 years can prove he belongs up there with the greats.
Idk why you’re downvoted, respectfully the league has just gotten deeper as time has gone. That’s not a slight on magic, kareem or Jordan. It’s just how things are
Especially when one remembers that none of the reigning champions since Toronto have made it last the SECOND round. Truly crazy how much parity / depth the league currently has.
Magic won Finals MVP his rookie season lol. If any player can get a start like that, then sure they’d be in the conversation right away for potential Top 20 player.
Wemby had a Top 30 rookie season of all time. He can climb, but it’s a long way up.
Wemby is not a normal tall guy. He has unmatched speed for his size, and he’s skilled enough to hit a logo 3. Not to mention the fact he doesn’t have to jump to dunk will make it easier on his body.
He’s also not that much taller than Kareem, only about 2 inches. With modern medicine and training he can have a very long career. Most tall guys are tall and move awkwardly, Wemby moves more like a guard than a center.
I hope you're right but there hasn't really been a star level player over 7'3 who didn't have major injuries.
There's 27 players 7'3 or taller all-time. Only 6 of those played 500 or more games. They are...
Manute Bol
Shawn Bradley
Mark Eaton
Rik Smits
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Randy Brewer
Quite a few of those are really good players. Vic is taller than Zydrunas and Randy.
Notable players with less than 500 games would be Yao Ming, Ralph Sampson, and Arvydas Sabonis (although he didn't play in the NBA till he was 30 and still had almost as many games as Yao)
I really hope he can break the mold, but modern medicine isn't perfect. We might have gotten another couple seasons out of a player like Yao with today's science, but who knows.
I agree he's not a normal tall guy that has a better chance of lasting, but I think that's mostly because of how limber he is. Kareem did yoga too which probably helped him stay on the court. Flexibility can go a long way in preventing injuries, which is usually the biggest factor in limiting the career length of 7 footers.
Sure I guess, if you completely ignore his efficiency. Y'all are writing an awful lot of checks that kid needs to cash. Its not fair to him and its disrespectful to the greats
If Jokic doesn’t win another ring and finals mvp I don’t think he gets top 20, that said the chances of him getting that are pretty good but big guys can age quickly from injuries you never know
How? He has resume of Moses Malone at the age of thirty. His legacy will be better than guys like Dirk, Barkley, Robinson or Wade. How is that not top 20?
I dunno. Nowadays the best player is often rewarded with the MVP
Before 2017, the best players also usually had to be a little lucky and play for the best or second best team
Is Jokic’s career today already clearly better than Steph’s? KD’s? Kobe? Shaq? I don’t think so; at least not yet
Agreed. Other notable guys in the mix for top 20:
Karl, Moses, Dirk, KG, West, Dr. J, Chuck, Admiral, Baylor imo.
I think Jokic is already a part of that group.
100%, he's quite comfortably the best offensive player there by a fair bit, ridiculous efficiency and honestly he's at least a top 5 passer of all time. His longevity is a question and defensively he's not the guy, but his total package is beyond what most of those guys are offering.
Luka if he plays long. Even though he’s only 25, he has a lot of basketball miles and his body’s recovery may be closer to a 30+ year old player. Along with his weight (increased body strain), and the nature of something Kyrie said in a post game interview lately, Luka might retire far earlier than expected.
He said “if Luka doesn’t retire early” in a post game interview when asked about being a leader. Kyrie was referencing that Luka may be in his position one day, but it seemed odd to me to open question if Luka would be playing for a while in this league.
To me the reason why this sticks with/for/about Luka is because even though he hasn’t had super obvious and consistent injuries like Embiid, he rarely seems super healthy and Luka doesn’t strike me as a player that wants to keep playing into twilight years with a huge statistical decline and just get injured more. To me, if Luka collects a ring this year, definitely after two, if he punishes his body another post season, he could retire very happy and might decide to. If he stays in the league, the front office will need to find another high speed star player if Kyrie isn’t still around.
yeah Luka needs to condition the shit out of that body, and alter his playing style a bit. He is way too heavy for how physical his game is. 6 years in the league, and he has missed at least 12 games the past 5 seasons.
Kinda, yeah. His career high gp is 72. In only one other season has he played at least 70, and it was exactly 70. He’s missed roughly 15-20% of games per season, except the shortened season where he only missed a few. He’s missed like close to a whole season’s worth of games, and because it’s spread out across every season he’s played, it isn’t like it was a one-off freak injury and he’s been fine outside of that. He consistently misses games. It’s not on Embiid’s level (dude has missed 48% of possible regular season games he in his career!), but it’s not great. Conditioning might be important before the wear and tear builds up any more.
Can’t complain on your logic. You absolutely right.
But i feel this is the new normal basically. I haven’t checked the stats but this is just my feeling: Tyrese, Tatum, brown, Brunson etc also miss somewhere around there?
Maybe I’m completely mistaken. Crazy to think that the normal is to miss 10-20 games a year and that’s just part of the game and the new normal.
🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️😅
Yeah, I would say missing an average of 10 games a year puts you on the more participatory side of superstars today. Since the pandemic, Tatum has averaged 10 missed games a year, Maxey 13.5, Jokic 8.5, Giannis 16, Brunson 9, SGA 26, Luka 15, AD 30, Kawhi 37, Embiid 24, Curry 16, LeBron 23, Ja 32.5, KD 29.5, Hali 15, JB 17
Ant is a notable exception I found among the top dogs. He has averaged 6.5 missed games per season for his career, but has missed just 3 games each of the last 2 years as he has developed into a superstar.
This is the norm now a days IMO. Also missing 15-20% of games will actually pro long his career and it saves them for the playoffs when the game picks up defensively and physicality. Like you said this isn’t Embiid level missing 48% of career, Luka ain’t even close to that level. If he was the conversations about Luka would be very different. Just my 2 cents
Seems like people don't realize how small , 20 is for how long the NBA has been around. Almost like the NBA started In 1985 or something if you think someone like Luka is top 20 think about who you would be taking out it would prob be someone on the level of Barkley or Jerry West. Are we there with Luka yet,
I don’t think anyone is saying he’s top 20 right now it’s just projecting. If he plays another 8-10 years at his current level he’ll have a pretty good case.
Take that top 75 list from a couple years back.
Cut it in half.
Cut it in half again.
Somehow jam in jokic and luka, and save half a slot for wemby's potential. No room for anyone else at all.
That's the current "top 20 ever".
He has 1 more fmvp, mvp, and dpoy. Many more all nba first teams and all defense teams. Plus he’s actually made it past the second round several times. Throw in a MIP for good measure and yeah giannis is way ahead of embiid and indeed is top 20.
May be a curmudgeonly take here but the numbers exist you can just look it up. Look at his production so far at 25 years old and then extrapolate that over a normal length of career. Or take a look at his numbers at his age and compare them to the numbers of those greats at that age. It’s really not difficult to figure out by the numbers or the eye test that he’s likely one of the greatest offensive players the game has ever seen. Offensively he’s up there with MJ, LeBron, Magic, etc. Defensively different story of course and playoff pedigree isn’t there. Not even a big Luka guy and I dislike Dallas but literally do the research.
Posts like these are more about a careers trajectory. If Luka keeps it up, he's almost assuredly gonna get there. But he has to keep it up. Gianni's and jokic don't even have to keep it up that much more. They're already knocking on the door if not already inside.
I think they are both borderline there, but unless something tragic happens to both it seems hard to argue they’ll be there at the end of their careers.
They should break it up by century, there are way too many good players now, but nobody wants the older generations to be forgotten, so dumb arguments will be made to diminish the accomplishments of younger generations.
As is Giannis. Both of them are insanely good, have MVPs to back it, and put up historic numbers each season. Even in a down year this year, Giannis did 30 on 60+% efficiency
So, just roughly throwing my top 20 up for sake of discussion, this definitely isn’t flawless especially the order:
MJ; LeBron; Kareem; Bird; Magic; Russell; Wilt; Duncan; Kobe; Hakeem: Shaq; Oscar; Curry; Durant; Moses; Thomas; Karl; Erving; West; Garnett
Some honorable mentions - Barkley, Dirk, Kawhi, Stockton, Admiral, Mikan, Harden
Id say the two that actually have cases right now to be above some of these names (and therefore in the top 20) is Jokic and Giannis and therefore barring (or even with) crazy injury I’m comfortable saying they’ll be at least top 20 when they hang it up.
Then there are some potential candidates that could get there with time, but championships and progression are so hard to predict so none are sure things just yet:
One of Tatum or Luka will be a FMVP this year so I’ll start there - both definitely have the potential.
Embiid sure has the talent but right now I’m more hesitant to put him in that list.
Shai, Wemby, and Ant are too young to tell. Same with anyone else drafted the last few years.
Lotta talent in the league that so many guys could end up so high!
I mean he wasn't MVP calibre obviously, but he's been good relatively at every stage of his career lmfao. He was a top rookie (despite being drafted at like 11), a great second option his second year coming 6th in MIP voting, then took the level to all-stardom barring the quality of his teammates and games played, then he broke out into an MVP calibre his last two years. How the hell isn't he "not that good"?
>still cant hit a 3
Well that's just B's lol. He takes less threes than I want him to take but he can definitely hit them. He ain't Josh Giddey
The reason I differentiated is because I think Tatum is a tier above in the high potential category. Shai is less certain as he’s accomplished less so far but because of his age it’s possible
I agree on Tatum but Shai is not that young and he's well behind in accomplishments compared to other potentials who might get there. I guess its possible but that Thunder team has to go on a real crazy dynasty level run for it to happen
I like your first 13 (not necessarily in that order for me of course). Moses, Erving, and probably West should be pretty tough to bump out of the 20 (and they could certainly go higher), so there's really only 4 spots up for grabs. I'd say there are near infinite reasonable permutations for those final four spots, and a few of them should go to this next generation
Its not absurd to think that this celtic squad could win 1,2 or 3 chips with some luck and he be the finals mvp for them. At which point it’d be hard to argue him outside of top 20
Tatum is about to pass Kobe on the playoff under-27 points list. And he’s somehow 6th in assists in the same list. His numbers absolutely track with top-20 performers without mentioning he’s a better defender than several top-20 performers. But he’s missing the championships, as well as MVP consideration. If the chips start falling, the latter will get harder and harder to explain away.
Why are we putting kd in top 20 all time? He scores a lot but I don't get it...hasn't won anything unless he was on a super team warriors....I guess I never understood the kd hype...seems like a drama queen who bounces himself to other teams when he's unhappy.. he is of course great but top 20??
I rank him based on how good he is at playing basketball. Do not care if he’s a “drama queen”. That’s about likability, not how good someone was as a player.
He might finish as high as 6th all time in scoring (he’s 8th currently) and will have the highest TS% for folks near the top of that list. Finishing 6th with all the time missed due to injury plus an MVP award…I don’t think Top 20 is crazy at all.
Karl Malone is 3rd and Dirk is 6th. Neither is a Top 15 player (but anywhere from \~15th to 30th is reasonable).
It's not crazy to have KD in the top 20...as long as he is right around #20.
Iverson 51% TS, Gervin 57%, Durant 61%
Gervin and iverson never won a title.
Durant won two finals mvps on arguably the most dominant nba teams in history.
In what world is KD finishing top 20 all time? Took the bitch route to get a few titles by joining the team he couldn’t beat and has done little (read nothing) of substance since leaving. Yes the injury is a bummer, but he seems entirely uninterested in altering his game to enhance his teammates and play to his current strengths since.
Good lord some of you must be 14 years old. The top 20 all time is stacked. I’d love to know who you’d take out for someone like Giannis?
Did y’all even watch the NBA 20 years ago even?
Giannis has 2 MVP and 1 title, only 12 other players who have ever done that.
“What about guys like Shaq and Kobe who only won 1 MVP for whatever reason but won 3+ rings?”, you might say. The list of players who’ve done that is those two guys and Bob Cousy.
You can have a look through the handful of 1 MVP, 2 ring guys, it includes Willis Reed, Dave Cowens, Bob McAdoo, David Robinson, but I think you’ll agree the only ones that have any real argument over Giannis are Hakeem and Durant.
So there, that’s a solid argument for Giannis at 18th all time or higher. Meanwhile you act like it’s crazy.
Other guys like Dr. J, Barkley, Malone, Garnett, Oscar, were not necessarily as dominant as you think they were. Many were more impactful on one end than the other, while Giannis has been truly elite on both. I might consider Dr. J (or possibly Oscar) higher than Giannis all time because of how iconic they are in the history of the game, but the others, it’s perfectly reasonable to rank them beneath him. And so yes, I have Giannis in the 17-20 range all time. And I think you could argue him as high as 14-15 if you wanted.
The only guys who are *no question* higher all time than Giannis are Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Curry, Jokic, Hakeem. After that, I’d still put Dr J, Durant, Oscar over him, but it’s at least arguable. Then there’s IT, Malone, Barkley in the 17-20 range with Giannis for me. But like, IT has no MVPs; the other two have no rings.
You’re underselling the specialness of Giannis.
I'm pretty sure that after this next generation we're going to stop doing top x lists and start going by tiers just cause there will be too much talent over a too long period of time.
I think that Giannis will fall right outside the "top 10" tier and will finish in the same tier as guys like KD, KG, Dirk, Wade etc.
Jokic has a very strong shot at finishing in the tier with guys like Bird, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Steph, Hakeem etc.
Luka, tbh, will highly likely finish in that "top 10" tier and has a very outside shot of getting into the GOAT debate with MJ and Lebron.
Wemby is too hard to pin down right now. His rate of improvement is insane to the point where he already looks like a borderline top 10 player right now as a rookie. If he can keep this up the sky is the limit.
Giannis and Luka for sure. I feel like jokic is going to be like Oscar Robertson where his stats and achievements are there just the position is so loaded its going to be hard to put him there. If you think about it most top 20 are the top 3 at every position then the next 5 best players in some sort of order.
And I'm just being real I've never seen someone wemby size stay healthy especially the way he plays hope I'm wrong and modern medicine has caught up.
TIL this sub already knighted wemby
Let’s get through his first serious injury before calling him top 20.
He’s a big man, its not if…. Its when. As it is for all players… they just hit big men different.
Jokic, Giannis and Luka are basically shoe-ins at this point. Giannis and Jokic might be top 20 today - how many players with 2 MVP’s and a championship aren’t considered top 20?
All it really takes is a championship run or two. If you’re a high volume scorer, and all that is missing is a championship on your resume, you are knocking on the door of a top 20 player.
Devin Booker, Jayson Tatum, Donovan Mitchell, Luka, Embiid, Etc
Imagine how people saw Dirk before he won a chip. A championship changes the way people views you.
Player rankings are just so stupid cuz either you’re lying and pretending that old players with objectively less skillsets are better just cuz of legacy or you’re setting impossible standards for modern players to reach due to greater competition league wide and modern CBA rules
the recency bias is beyond absurd on this thread. Jokic is in there. Giannis is borderline. Everyone else is a hard no regardless who wins the chip this year.
I included Giannis and Jokic in my last list just knowing they are going to finish there.
Luka, Wemby seem like safe bets.
Other than it's pretty impossible to say, who knows what situations will present themselves with the right rosters, coaching, luck, etc. Too many "what-if's" and uncertainties. ie what if Chet and Shai win 6 together? What if Kawhi ends up somewhere and gets two more titles? What if Klay left and won 2 more but Steph never made playoffs again?
I think when you compare his rookie numbers to any other player in history and the end result is they only compare to players who had long legendary careers, it’s a safe bet under the assumption he doesn’t have a career ending injury early on. He’s already had historic regular seasons games (not just among rookies). He’s a safe bet.
Edit: please look at u/derrick123 reply to this comment to see where his rookie season stands among other all time great rookie seasons and compare that to where those players ended up at the end of their career. A “safe bet” is not a “sure thing”.
We haven’t seen Wemby in the playoffs and the league hasn’t had any time to scheme against him we don’t have any idea what his future holds because he just started. He has that potential but saying now that he will finish top 20 is disrespectful to all the very accomplished players already in the top 20.
Not even close? Assuming he keeps up his Iron man streak and his production stays relatively the same he will be top 10 in total points scored. That’s not including all-nba teams or the title he will most likely win.
That is an awful comparison. Melo was a terrible defender with subpar rebounding skills and a nonexistent passing game.
He also only made it to the second round of playoffs 3 times over his career, and made it to the conference finals only once. His overall record in the playoffs was 28-55.
For reference, Tatum in 7 seasons has a playoff record of 64-44 with 5 conference finals appearances, 2 finals appearances, and only 1 first round exit. He’s also currently 2nd in all time playoff points by any player under the age of 27, already passing Lebron, and 95 points away from passing Kobe for the #1 spot.
If he scores 25 points in 4 games in the finals he will have the most playoff points for someone under 27. I mean you don’t know until you know but that’s a good sign.
Tatum in the top 20 ALL TIME?! He’s not even a top 5 player in the league this year. He’s arguably not even the top player on his own team half the time
Yes he has a chance to be top 20 player of all time. He has a lot more accolades already than SGA, Brunson and Ant. The only sure bets ahead of him are Luka, Jokic and Giannis.
And yes he’s the best player on the Celtics, just because Jaylen Brown can score while Tatum gets the tougher defensive attention doesn’t mean JB is better than Tatum.
I think people are severely underrating how hard it is to be top 20. You think there are 7 active players that are top 20 all time? Good enough to bump out guys like Charles Barkley, Dirk, KG?
Besides those 3, Jokic the only one IMO. MAYBE Giannis due to his two-way presence.
I feel like he is reasonable right at twenty. By the numbers, one of the greatest scorers all time, will probably end 6th in points on amazing efficiency, 4? Scoring titles, was a foot size away from most likely winning a chip with Brooklyn
Jokic and Giannis almost certainly will, if Embiid wins a ring and has a few more years at the level he’s been at the past few seasons (another MVP) he should make it as well, but it seems unlikely given his consistent heath issues (He’ll likely retire more in the Kawhi range of players who were absolutely incredible when they played but not healthy enough to tally up the totals and accolades for T20 all time). Luka *should* get there as well, he should rack up some MVPs (or at least one and imo should’ve won it this year) and I doubt he retires ringless but if somehow neither of those things happen I guess he won’t be remembered all too fondly given how much the discourse surrounding greatness revolves around hardware. If Harden wins a ring as a major contributor his legacy changes practically overnight also, I’m just not sure if it changes to T20 level (it should maybe, considering he’s top 20 in points, top 15 in assists and top 40 in steals already and doesn’t look close to retirement quite yet) honestly.
That’s all I can think of this early. If im giving shotgun predictions Wemby probably will barring injury or just never ever progressing at all as a player (unlikely given how much progress he showed in just the first season) I guess. Can’t think of anyone else though.
Current top 20 players: Jokic, Kawhi, KD, Curry, Lebron... I don't think anyone else will out rank any of them. Giannis is the closest, but his window is closing soon
People that doubt wemby longevity arr just making the assumption thatvtall equals injury prone.
While it is backed by history the only other big in nba history i know of that had a siniliar toutine to him was kareem. People said kareem was insane for dooing yoga yet his longevity is top 5 all time.
Wemby and his trainer have confirned they do not plan to bulk him up mucsle mass wise mainly they want core strength and flexability in joints with his feet and ankles being loose as possible.
He is doing the most modern medical approach to body maintence and i think it will benefit him. I also think him being non ameeican and not forced into weightlifting early hugely benefited him. Personally i believe that was the fall of zion; Gaining 100 pounds in a year isnt a good approach for a growing body.
Jokic and Giannis are already top 20 (I have them at 13 and 17 respectively), and I think Luka and Wemby will make it too. Embiid could make it skill wise but I think injuries will hold him back.
I think Jokic ends up top 5-10, Giannis and Luka end up top 10-15, and Wemby is a wild card. He could theoretically end up top 5, but rookie year is too small of a sample size to tell.
Jokic has solidified his place. The verdict still out on the rest. Top 20 is a hard list to crack.
Depending on your list it’s about around the scottie pippen wade malone Baylor nowitzki tier.
Joker's probably a shoe in at this point. 3 time MVP, perennial All-NBA player, Champion, Finals MVP. I'd say Giannis too, but he really hasn't done much since 2021. And the fact that he was a little bit of a late bloomer when it came to reaching superstardom means his all time totals may not get up there with some of the greats. And it's far too early to tell with Luka and Wemby tho.
Your list seems accurate, but I could also see none of them finish top 20 of they don't win multiple championships. In fact I don't think of KD as a top 20 player based on how he's failed in Brooklyn and Phoenix.
Luka, Giannis and Jokic will finish there pretty easily. Granted I don't rank players who played before the merger in the top 25. Wemby put up great numbers but we have to see his career play out. Injuries can play a factor in his career due to his size.
It’s getting to the point where the NBA has been around long enough and there aren’t enough spots. I think it’s easier to think of players in buckets. GOATS in their time bucket. Amazing players bucket. Players so good I’ve never watched but still talked about bucket (which is different for everyone). Players I enjoyed watching bucket.
I think Gianni’s and Jokic are pretty much there already.
Luka will probably finish top 20.
Other than that hard to say. No one else is on the trajectory yet.
Really wonder how long before we start checking if KD ends up top 20. Trajectory wise it’s wild that he doesn’t feel locked in but I think he’s right now in that 15-20 group which isn’t locked in by any means.
The usual suspects you know, Luka, Jokic, Coby White, maybe Giannis or Wemby
I dont know about that list. Coby definitely top 5 tho
For sure, also they forgot Kyle Anderson
It’s gotta be the hair Cotton
One of these is not like the other…. Let’s see Wemby win a playoff game first
What about Dick?
Dick Gradey sick as fuck
Forgot to add in Dalano banton the fuck. The disrespect
Luka and the joker
Wemby is putting up rookie stats like he’s a top 5 all time player. Way too early to say, but with the Spurs being the youngest team in the league they have a ton of time to grow.
Guys that tall historically have short careers. We’ll see.
Well in relevance to having an all-time career, Magic only had 11 before he left the league and he still had an incredible career. Wemby in 10 years can prove he belongs up there with the greats.
You think wemby can win 5 titles in 11years?
Can’t compare the number of rings players have from different eras. The league has changed too much
Idk why you’re downvoted, respectfully the league has just gotten deeper as time has gone. That’s not a slight on magic, kareem or Jordan. It’s just how things are
Especially when one remembers that none of the reigning champions since Toronto have made it last the SECOND round. Truly crazy how much parity / depth the league currently has.
Magic won Finals MVP his rookie season lol. If any player can get a start like that, then sure they’d be in the conversation right away for potential Top 20 player. Wemby had a Top 30 rookie season of all time. He can climb, but it’s a long way up.
Wemby is not a normal tall guy. He has unmatched speed for his size, and he’s skilled enough to hit a logo 3. Not to mention the fact he doesn’t have to jump to dunk will make it easier on his body. He’s also not that much taller than Kareem, only about 2 inches. With modern medicine and training he can have a very long career. Most tall guys are tall and move awkwardly, Wemby moves more like a guard than a center.
I hope you're right but there hasn't really been a star level player over 7'3 who didn't have major injuries. There's 27 players 7'3 or taller all-time. Only 6 of those played 500 or more games. They are... Manute Bol Shawn Bradley Mark Eaton Rik Smits Zydrunas Ilgauskas Randy Brewer Quite a few of those are really good players. Vic is taller than Zydrunas and Randy. Notable players with less than 500 games would be Yao Ming, Ralph Sampson, and Arvydas Sabonis (although he didn't play in the NBA till he was 30 and still had almost as many games as Yao) I really hope he can break the mold, but modern medicine isn't perfect. We might have gotten another couple seasons out of a player like Yao with today's science, but who knows.
Arvydas was the truth. If he’d played in the league from age 21-30 there’d be a lot of different conversations to be had.
Really surprised Ilgauskas got to 500 games. Hidden gem of the vaunted 96 draft class
We’ll see. Ralph Sampson was really quick and athletic too.
No man you don’t get it, Wemby does pilates so they’ve completely solved the problem of injuries
I agree he's not a normal tall guy that has a better chance of lasting, but I think that's mostly because of how limber he is. Kareem did yoga too which probably helped him stay on the court. Flexibility can go a long way in preventing injuries, which is usually the biggest factor in limiting the career length of 7 footers.
Wemby undertakes quite a comprehensive stretching / yoga regime. He's smart enough to know this is the key to his longevity.
Sure I guess, if you completely ignore his efficiency. Y'all are writing an awful lot of checks that kid needs to cash. Its not fair to him and its disrespectful to the greats
If Jokic doesn’t win another ring and finals mvp I don’t think he gets top 20, that said the chances of him getting that are pretty good but big guys can age quickly from injuries you never know
How? He has resume of Moses Malone at the age of thirty. His legacy will be better than guys like Dirk, Barkley, Robinson or Wade. How is that not top 20?
I 100% agree. Imo the only argument Dirk has over Jokic is longevity, and I rank Dirk highest out of those four.
How many players have 3 MVP’s? That should settle it.
I dunno. Nowadays the best player is often rewarded with the MVP Before 2017, the best players also usually had to be a little lucky and play for the best or second best team Is Jokic’s career today already clearly better than Steph’s? KD’s? Kobe? Shaq? I don’t think so; at least not yet
top 20 is the discussion, not Steph KD or Shaq. 3 MVPs and a title is hands down top 20.
Agreed. Other notable guys in the mix for top 20: Karl, Moses, Dirk, KG, West, Dr. J, Chuck, Admiral, Baylor imo. I think Jokic is already a part of that group.
100%, he's quite comfortably the best offensive player there by a fair bit, ridiculous efficiency and honestly he's at least a top 5 passer of all time. His longevity is a question and defensively he's not the guy, but his total package is beyond what most of those guys are offering.
Moses won three MVPs and one ring, and he's been considered top 20 by most
Can we stop the cap? If Moses Malone is there, Jokic is there
I think you can make a top 20 without Moses Malone though
You can, but it would be a mistake.
Jokic’s career already matches up well with KG, Dirk, and Moses, who are all considered top 20 now so…
I always ask who are they replacing ?
Luka if he plays long. Even though he’s only 25, he has a lot of basketball miles and his body’s recovery may be closer to a 30+ year old player. Along with his weight (increased body strain), and the nature of something Kyrie said in a post game interview lately, Luka might retire far earlier than expected.
What did Kyrie say re: Luka?
He said “if Luka doesn’t retire early” in a post game interview when asked about being a leader. Kyrie was referencing that Luka may be in his position one day, but it seemed odd to me to open question if Luka would be playing for a while in this league. To me the reason why this sticks with/for/about Luka is because even though he hasn’t had super obvious and consistent injuries like Embiid, he rarely seems super healthy and Luka doesn’t strike me as a player that wants to keep playing into twilight years with a huge statistical decline and just get injured more. To me, if Luka collects a ring this year, definitely after two, if he punishes his body another post season, he could retire very happy and might decide to. If he stays in the league, the front office will need to find another high speed star player if Kyrie isn’t still around.
What did Kyrie say?
yeah Luka needs to condition the shit out of that body, and alter his playing style a bit. He is way too heavy for how physical his game is. 6 years in the league, and he has missed at least 12 games the past 5 seasons.
And that’s a crazy amount of games?
Kinda, yeah. His career high gp is 72. In only one other season has he played at least 70, and it was exactly 70. He’s missed roughly 15-20% of games per season, except the shortened season where he only missed a few. He’s missed like close to a whole season’s worth of games, and because it’s spread out across every season he’s played, it isn’t like it was a one-off freak injury and he’s been fine outside of that. He consistently misses games. It’s not on Embiid’s level (dude has missed 48% of possible regular season games he in his career!), but it’s not great. Conditioning might be important before the wear and tear builds up any more.
Can’t complain on your logic. You absolutely right. But i feel this is the new normal basically. I haven’t checked the stats but this is just my feeling: Tyrese, Tatum, brown, Brunson etc also miss somewhere around there? Maybe I’m completely mistaken. Crazy to think that the normal is to miss 10-20 games a year and that’s just part of the game and the new normal. 🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️😅
Yeah, I would say missing an average of 10 games a year puts you on the more participatory side of superstars today. Since the pandemic, Tatum has averaged 10 missed games a year, Maxey 13.5, Jokic 8.5, Giannis 16, Brunson 9, SGA 26, Luka 15, AD 30, Kawhi 37, Embiid 24, Curry 16, LeBron 23, Ja 32.5, KD 29.5, Hali 15, JB 17 Ant is a notable exception I found among the top dogs. He has averaged 6.5 missed games per season for his career, but has missed just 3 games each of the last 2 years as he has developed into a superstar.
This is the norm now a days IMO. Also missing 15-20% of games will actually pro long his career and it saves them for the playoffs when the game picks up defensively and physicality. Like you said this isn’t Embiid level missing 48% of career, Luka ain’t even close to that level. If he was the conversations about Luka would be very different. Just my 2 cents
Seems like people don't realize how small , 20 is for how long the NBA has been around. Almost like the NBA started In 1985 or something if you think someone like Luka is top 20 think about who you would be taking out it would prob be someone on the level of Barkley or Jerry West. Are we there with Luka yet,
Luka hasnt even made it out of the conference finals yet
I don’t think anyone is saying he’s top 20 right now it’s just projecting. If he plays another 8-10 years at his current level he’ll have a pretty good case.
Done
I was thinking the same thing. Top 20 is like the most elite of the elite.
Take that top 75 list from a couple years back. Cut it in half. Cut it in half again. Somehow jam in jokic and luka, and save half a slot for wemby's potential. No room for anyone else at all. That's the current "top 20 ever".
The post says "finish" and with Luka's trajectory it's a reasonable guess he will Giannis and Jokic already are imo.
Other than a ring… how is Giannis so far ahead of say… embiiid that hes top 20? Id still put Jokic of over Giannis for sure
He has 1 more fmvp, mvp, and dpoy. Many more all nba first teams and all defense teams. Plus he’s actually made it past the second round several times. Throw in a MIP for good measure and yeah giannis is way ahead of embiid and indeed is top 20.
May be a curmudgeonly take here but the numbers exist you can just look it up. Look at his production so far at 25 years old and then extrapolate that over a normal length of career. Or take a look at his numbers at his age and compare them to the numbers of those greats at that age. It’s really not difficult to figure out by the numbers or the eye test that he’s likely one of the greatest offensive players the game has ever seen. Offensively he’s up there with MJ, LeBron, Magic, etc. Defensively different story of course and playoff pedigree isn’t there. Not even a big Luka guy and I dislike Dallas but literally do the research.
Posts like these are more about a careers trajectory. If Luka keeps it up, he's almost assuredly gonna get there. But he has to keep it up. Gianni's and jokic don't even have to keep it up that much more. They're already knocking on the door if not already inside.
Jokic’s three mvps and title put him there
Me personally I think Jokic and Giannis are already there.
I think they are both borderline there, but unless something tragic happens to both it seems hard to argue they’ll be there at the end of their careers.
3 MVPs, a championship for a formerly poverty franchise.Top 20 is like Wade or Dirk territory right? I think Jokic is already in that mix.
Would you consider Bob petit a top 20 player all time?
Hell, yes, I would! BP was an absolute BEAST.
7 current players in the top 20. Recency bias much?
Smh I’m thinking the same exact thing
They should break it up by century, there are way too many good players now, but nobody wants the older generations to be forgotten, so dumb arguments will be made to diminish the accomplishments of younger generations.
Jokic is already in there
As is Giannis. Both of them are insanely good, have MVPs to back it, and put up historic numbers each season. Even in a down year this year, Giannis did 30 on 60+% efficiency
So, just roughly throwing my top 20 up for sake of discussion, this definitely isn’t flawless especially the order: MJ; LeBron; Kareem; Bird; Magic; Russell; Wilt; Duncan; Kobe; Hakeem: Shaq; Oscar; Curry; Durant; Moses; Thomas; Karl; Erving; West; Garnett Some honorable mentions - Barkley, Dirk, Kawhi, Stockton, Admiral, Mikan, Harden Id say the two that actually have cases right now to be above some of these names (and therefore in the top 20) is Jokic and Giannis and therefore barring (or even with) crazy injury I’m comfortable saying they’ll be at least top 20 when they hang it up. Then there are some potential candidates that could get there with time, but championships and progression are so hard to predict so none are sure things just yet: One of Tatum or Luka will be a FMVP this year so I’ll start there - both definitely have the potential. Embiid sure has the talent but right now I’m more hesitant to put him in that list. Shai, Wemby, and Ant are too young to tell. Same with anyone else drafted the last few years. Lotta talent in the league that so many guys could end up so high!
Crazy thing is Shai is older than Luka.
He is the same age as Tatum. Compare the discourse on these two as to where they are with their careers and what they should have achieved by now.
People talk like SGA is a second year player it's ridiculous. He was in 2018 draft people just wasnt that good first few years, and still cant hit a 3
He’s only played 2 less seasons than Embiid!
fewer\*
I mean he wasn't MVP calibre obviously, but he's been good relatively at every stage of his career lmfao. He was a top rookie (despite being drafted at like 11), a great second option his second year coming 6th in MIP voting, then took the level to all-stardom barring the quality of his teammates and games played, then he broke out into an MVP calibre his last two years. How the hell isn't he "not that good"? >still cant hit a 3 Well that's just B's lol. He takes less threes than I want him to take but he can definitely hit them. He ain't Josh Giddey
Shai and Tatum are basically the same age
The reason I differentiated is because I think Tatum is a tier above in the high potential category. Shai is less certain as he’s accomplished less so far but because of his age it’s possible
I agree on Tatum but Shai is not that young and he's well behind in accomplishments compared to other potentials who might get there. I guess its possible but that Thunder team has to go on a real crazy dynasty level run for it to happen
Saying Harden and not Wade cost you my guy.
Lol Wade is a fine addition as well - bound to have missed some. Don't think he's Top 20 though I love him
I agree. Probably top 50 but not top 20.
Shit I didnt even register that one. There are like 10 players he could have mentioned there
Embiid won't. Tatum won't. Ant won't is my guess. He's too young to say.
I think Jokic and Giannis will both be remembered more than Leonard
I’m sorry, I just don’t see how Ant has top 20 potential. I think it’s only Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and Wemby (obviously extremely early to tell)
Having Barkley as an honorable mention but Malone and Garnett top 20 is legitimately funny
I like your first 13 (not necessarily in that order for me of course). Moses, Erving, and probably West should be pretty tough to bump out of the 20 (and they could certainly go higher), so there's really only 4 spots up for grabs. I'd say there are near infinite reasonable permutations for those final four spots, and a few of them should go to this next generation
If West is top 20 then baylor and Pettit in honorable mentions.
Why is Shaq so low and Isiah so high? Shaq dominated the league for 7 years. Shaq is definitely ahead of Kobe. Thomas 0.
Agreed. I do think people still underrate IT for a number of reasons, but it’s hard to argue Kobe or Shaq are below him in the rankings.
It's certainly debatable, all three of Shaq, Kobe, and Hakeem have led multiple teams to championships and dominated the league
Tatum does not have top 20 all time potential what the fuck
Its not absurd to think that this celtic squad could win 1,2 or 3 chips with some luck and he be the finals mvp for them. At which point it’d be hard to argue him outside of top 20
Tatum is about to pass Kobe on the playoff under-27 points list. And he’s somehow 6th in assists in the same list. His numbers absolutely track with top-20 performers without mentioning he’s a better defender than several top-20 performers. But he’s missing the championships, as well as MVP consideration. If the chips start falling, the latter will get harder and harder to explain away.
Why are we putting kd in top 20 all time? He scores a lot but I don't get it...hasn't won anything unless he was on a super team warriors....I guess I never understood the kd hype...seems like a drama queen who bounces himself to other teams when he's unhappy.. he is of course great but top 20??
I rank him based on how good he is at playing basketball. Do not care if he’s a “drama queen”. That’s about likability, not how good someone was as a player.
[удалено]
He might finish as high as 6th all time in scoring (he’s 8th currently) and will have the highest TS% for folks near the top of that list. Finishing 6th with all the time missed due to injury plus an MVP award…I don’t think Top 20 is crazy at all.
Karl Malone is 3rd and Dirk is 6th. Neither is a Top 15 player (but anywhere from \~15th to 30th is reasonable). It's not crazy to have KD in the top 20...as long as he is right around #20.
KD also has 4!!!! Scoring titles
So do Iverson and Gervin
Iverson 51% TS, Gervin 57%, Durant 61% Gervin and iverson never won a title. Durant won two finals mvps on arguably the most dominant nba teams in history.
Durant is also a multiple time 50-40-90 shooter. He’s one of the best offensive players of all time, without question
Recency bias
I think Jokic and Giannis are already top 20 but I think those 4 are reaching top 15 status at worst
The Joker is already top 15
In what world is KD finishing top 20 all time? Took the bitch route to get a few titles by joining the team he couldn’t beat and has done little (read nothing) of substance since leaving. Yes the injury is a bummer, but he seems entirely uninterested in altering his game to enhance his teammates and play to his current strengths since.
Good lord some of you must be 14 years old. The top 20 all time is stacked. I’d love to know who you’d take out for someone like Giannis? Did y’all even watch the NBA 20 years ago even?
Giannis has 2 MVP and 1 title, only 12 other players who have ever done that. “What about guys like Shaq and Kobe who only won 1 MVP for whatever reason but won 3+ rings?”, you might say. The list of players who’ve done that is those two guys and Bob Cousy. You can have a look through the handful of 1 MVP, 2 ring guys, it includes Willis Reed, Dave Cowens, Bob McAdoo, David Robinson, but I think you’ll agree the only ones that have any real argument over Giannis are Hakeem and Durant. So there, that’s a solid argument for Giannis at 18th all time or higher. Meanwhile you act like it’s crazy. Other guys like Dr. J, Barkley, Malone, Garnett, Oscar, were not necessarily as dominant as you think they were. Many were more impactful on one end than the other, while Giannis has been truly elite on both. I might consider Dr. J (or possibly Oscar) higher than Giannis all time because of how iconic they are in the history of the game, but the others, it’s perfectly reasonable to rank them beneath him. And so yes, I have Giannis in the 17-20 range all time. And I think you could argue him as high as 14-15 if you wanted. The only guys who are *no question* higher all time than Giannis are Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Curry, Jokic, Hakeem. After that, I’d still put Dr J, Durant, Oscar over him, but it’s at least arguable. Then there’s IT, Malone, Barkley in the 17-20 range with Giannis for me. But like, IT has no MVPs; the other two have no rings. You’re underselling the specialness of Giannis.
I would take out KG for Giannis in a heartbeat
You don’t know shit about basketball if you think Giannis isnt top 20 all time lol
These nephews be trifling.
It's absolutely insane how nuts some of these takes are. Top 50? Sure, we can debate that.
Prob Poole
Luka if he wins a championship and Jokic
None. In fact, I think the argument can be made that KD doesn't belong in this conversation, and Curry is marginal.
How is Curry marginal? The dude literally changed the game
I think Jokic is most likely, then Wemby, then Luka… and I wouldn’t bet on Giannis finishing top 20.
Too early to include Wemby
I'm pretty sure that after this next generation we're going to stop doing top x lists and start going by tiers just cause there will be too much talent over a too long period of time. I think that Giannis will fall right outside the "top 10" tier and will finish in the same tier as guys like KD, KG, Dirk, Wade etc. Jokic has a very strong shot at finishing in the tier with guys like Bird, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Steph, Hakeem etc. Luka, tbh, will highly likely finish in that "top 10" tier and has a very outside shot of getting into the GOAT debate with MJ and Lebron. Wemby is too hard to pin down right now. His rate of improvement is insane to the point where he already looks like a borderline top 10 player right now as a rookie. If he can keep this up the sky is the limit.
Giannis and Luka for sure. I feel like jokic is going to be like Oscar Robertson where his stats and achievements are there just the position is so loaded its going to be hard to put him there. If you think about it most top 20 are the top 3 at every position then the next 5 best players in some sort of order. And I'm just being real I've never seen someone wemby size stay healthy especially the way he plays hope I'm wrong and modern medicine has caught up.
TIL this sub already knighted wemby Let’s get through his first serious injury before calling him top 20. He’s a big man, its not if…. Its when. As it is for all players… they just hit big men different.
Jokic, Giannis and Luka are basically shoe-ins at this point. Giannis and Jokic might be top 20 today - how many players with 2 MVP’s and a championship aren’t considered top 20?
All it really takes is a championship run or two. If you’re a high volume scorer, and all that is missing is a championship on your resume, you are knocking on the door of a top 20 player. Devin Booker, Jayson Tatum, Donovan Mitchell, Luka, Embiid, Etc Imagine how people saw Dirk before he won a chip. A championship changes the way people views you.
Player rankings are just so stupid cuz either you’re lying and pretending that old players with objectively less skillsets are better just cuz of legacy or you’re setting impossible standards for modern players to reach due to greater competition league wide and modern CBA rules
Kd not top 20 sorry
I think Jokic and Giannis already are and i think you nailed it with the other two. Im not sure theres anyone else close
“All time” could be 500 years after I’m dead. None of these players may be in the “all time”
the recency bias is beyond absurd on this thread. Jokic is in there. Giannis is borderline. Everyone else is a hard no regardless who wins the chip this year.
I included Giannis and Jokic in my last list just knowing they are going to finish there. Luka, Wemby seem like safe bets. Other than it's pretty impossible to say, who knows what situations will present themselves with the right rosters, coaching, luck, etc. Too many "what-if's" and uncertainties. ie what if Chet and Shai win 6 together? What if Kawhi ends up somewhere and gets two more titles? What if Klay left and won 2 more but Steph never made playoffs again?
Saying Wemby is a safe bet only 1 year into his career is WILD.
wild take? not for someone who was started watching last year
The glaze for wemby is off the charts.
I think when you compare his rookie numbers to any other player in history and the end result is they only compare to players who had long legendary careers, it’s a safe bet under the assumption he doesn’t have a career ending injury early on. He’s already had historic regular seasons games (not just among rookies). He’s a safe bet. Edit: please look at u/derrick123 reply to this comment to see where his rookie season stands among other all time great rookie seasons and compare that to where those players ended up at the end of their career. A “safe bet” is not a “sure thing”.
This is called survivorship bias, there are tons of players who put up legendary numbers for short periods only to be derailed by injury or whatever
Does he have the potential? Yes. But calling it a safe bet, after just one year, is just kinda dumb to me.
We haven’t seen Wemby in the playoffs and the league hasn’t had any time to scheme against him we don’t have any idea what his future holds because he just started. He has that potential but saying now that he will finish top 20 is disrespectful to all the very accomplished players already in the top 20.
For sure guys Jokic, Giannis, Luka Close maybe Tatum Need to see more but great chance Ant Wemby
Tatum won’t even be close.
Not even close? Assuming he keeps up his Iron man streak and his production stays relatively the same he will be top 10 in total points scored. That’s not including all-nba teams or the title he will most likely win.
total points lol that’s great melo is a top 10 scorer nobody has them in their top 20 all time.
That is an awful comparison. Melo was a terrible defender with subpar rebounding skills and a nonexistent passing game. He also only made it to the second round of playoffs 3 times over his career, and made it to the conference finals only once. His overall record in the playoffs was 28-55. For reference, Tatum in 7 seasons has a playoff record of 64-44 with 5 conference finals appearances, 2 finals appearances, and only 1 first round exit. He’s also currently 2nd in all time playoff points by any player under the age of 27, already passing Lebron, and 95 points away from passing Kobe for the #1 spot.
If he scores 25 points in 4 games in the finals he will have the most playoff points for someone under 27. I mean you don’t know until you know but that’s a good sign.
Tatum in the top 20 ALL TIME?! He’s not even a top 5 player in the league this year. He’s arguably not even the top player on his own team half the time
Finally someone with common sense who can see past the Tatum glaze.
That’s just not true
Yes he has a chance to be top 20 player of all time. He has a lot more accolades already than SGA, Brunson and Ant. The only sure bets ahead of him are Luka, Jokic and Giannis. And yes he’s the best player on the Celtics, just because Jaylen Brown can score while Tatum gets the tougher defensive attention doesn’t mean JB is better than Tatum.
Huge disagree man, only time will tell but that’s never going to happen lol
Accolades mean shit if he’s still a worse player than anyone in the top 25
I think people are severely underrating how hard it is to be top 20. You think there are 7 active players that are top 20 all time? Good enough to bump out guys like Charles Barkley, Dirk, KG? Besides those 3, Jokic the only one IMO. MAYBE Giannis due to his two-way presence.
Recency bias is big here lol
Why is kd top 20? Can't win anything without daddy steph
I feel like he is reasonable right at twenty. By the numbers, one of the greatest scorers all time, will probably end 6th in points on amazing efficiency, 4? Scoring titles, was a foot size away from most likely winning a chip with Brooklyn
I rank more off of production and accolades than narrative. Save that shit for skip bayless.
Jokic and Giannis almost certainly will, if Embiid wins a ring and has a few more years at the level he’s been at the past few seasons (another MVP) he should make it as well, but it seems unlikely given his consistent heath issues (He’ll likely retire more in the Kawhi range of players who were absolutely incredible when they played but not healthy enough to tally up the totals and accolades for T20 all time). Luka *should* get there as well, he should rack up some MVPs (or at least one and imo should’ve won it this year) and I doubt he retires ringless but if somehow neither of those things happen I guess he won’t be remembered all too fondly given how much the discourse surrounding greatness revolves around hardware. If Harden wins a ring as a major contributor his legacy changes practically overnight also, I’m just not sure if it changes to T20 level (it should maybe, considering he’s top 20 in points, top 15 in assists and top 40 in steals already and doesn’t look close to retirement quite yet) honestly. That’s all I can think of this early. If im giving shotgun predictions Wemby probably will barring injury or just never ever progressing at all as a player (unlikely given how much progress he showed in just the first season) I guess. Can’t think of anyone else though.
Zach edey!!!
hold up you’re missing THANASIS
I think Giannis and Jokic already are. Only thing they lack is longevity
Wemby if he stays healthy
If Harden, Kyrie, or Klay somehow find the fountain of youth and re-enter their prime, they have a shot.
Jokic, Giannis, and maybe Luka, but he needs a ring and MVP to be in the convo
Seth curry
Wemby kawhi Luka jokic Gianni’s russs harden cp3 all can imo
Giannis & Joker
Jokic
Wemby, Luka, Jokic, ANT, possibly Tatum.
Portlands franchise player Dalano banton
Kd lebron steph luka jokic giannis Wemby cp3 kawhi
Jokic is ahead of KD
Current top 20 players: Jokic, Kawhi, KD, Curry, Lebron... I don't think anyone else will out rank any of them. Giannis is the closest, but his window is closing soon
It’s not that hard for giannis. He wins another ring and hes in scarce company.
I feel like Giannis and Jokic are already there. Luka is a championship and a MVP away.
Wemby lol
These are some wild takes.
People that doubt wemby longevity arr just making the assumption thatvtall equals injury prone. While it is backed by history the only other big in nba history i know of that had a siniliar toutine to him was kareem. People said kareem was insane for dooing yoga yet his longevity is top 5 all time. Wemby and his trainer have confirned they do not plan to bulk him up mucsle mass wise mainly they want core strength and flexability in joints with his feet and ankles being loose as possible. He is doing the most modern medical approach to body maintence and i think it will benefit him. I also think him being non ameeican and not forced into weightlifting early hugely benefited him. Personally i believe that was the fall of zion; Gaining 100 pounds in a year isnt a good approach for a growing body.
Jokic is a lock, Wemby if he doesn't get hurt, and one of either Luka or Giannis depending on how the rest of their careers go
Jokic and Giannis are already top 20 (I have them at 13 and 17 respectively), and I think Luka and Wemby will make it too. Embiid could make it skill wise but I think injuries will hold him back. I think Jokic ends up top 5-10, Giannis and Luka end up top 10-15, and Wemby is a wild card. He could theoretically end up top 5, but rookie year is too small of a sample size to tell.
Jokic has solidified his place. The verdict still out on the rest. Top 20 is a hard list to crack. Depending on your list it’s about around the scottie pippen wade malone Baylor nowitzki tier.
Joker's probably a shoe in at this point. 3 time MVP, perennial All-NBA player, Champion, Finals MVP. I'd say Giannis too, but he really hasn't done much since 2021. And the fact that he was a little bit of a late bloomer when it came to reaching superstardom means his all time totals may not get up there with some of the greats. And it's far too early to tell with Luka and Wemby tho.
Your list seems accurate, but I could also see none of them finish top 20 of they don't win multiple championships. In fact I don't think of KD as a top 20 player based on how he's failed in Brooklyn and Phoenix.
Luka, Giannis and Jokic will finish there pretty easily. Granted I don't rank players who played before the merger in the top 25. Wemby put up great numbers but we have to see his career play out. Injuries can play a factor in his career due to his size.
It’s getting to the point where the NBA has been around long enough and there aren’t enough spots. I think it’s easier to think of players in buckets. GOATS in their time bucket. Amazing players bucket. Players so good I’ve never watched but still talked about bucket (which is different for everyone). Players I enjoyed watching bucket.
How you win 3x MVP and 1x final MVP not in top 20? Jokic is already in. Imma say also Giannis in it too.
I think Gianni’s and Jokic are pretty much there already. Luka will probably finish top 20. Other than that hard to say. No one else is on the trajectory yet.
Giannis , Jokic, Luka, Brunson
Giannis Jokic CP3
If this celtics team can realize its potential and win a few chips we’ll be talking very differently about tatum in a few years
Really wonder how long before we start checking if KD ends up top 20. Trajectory wise it’s wild that he doesn’t feel locked in but I think he’s right now in that 15-20 group which isn’t locked in by any means.
Durant is top 20? News to me.
3. Ben Simmons, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, and Davis Bertans
Jokic is already there and Giannis is banging on the door
Luka, Joker, Giannis feel like locks Wemby is too soon to tell but easily could be.
Derek White is already the goat
Not sure how many "will" besides Joker, but outside of him some that have a shot: Luka, Wemby, & Giannis.
I don’t think something like this can be quantified.