Agreed.
If you start ranking the best player against best player and second against second, how far do you have to go before 96 starts taking W's?
I think the 84 squad would absolutely clap the 96 squad.
Sam Perkins is probably the best fit, while he's also a PF he's at least a good shooter so will fit in ok with Hakeem and Chuck.
Alternatively you could go for Alvin Robertson and move MJ up to SF.
Can put Alvin Robertson in and move Jordan to small forward or Barkley down to small forward and Perkins, a great shooting big man, into the power forward role
Both Thorpe and Willis had very long careers with 1 allstar appearance and 1 title each but I might go with Kersey in that lineup for his 4 or 5 year stretch in the late 80s early 90s.
Haha I said that like 6-7 years ago...like the exact same thing. Pretty sure its not original thought...people been saying it since the 90s. We always joke about Sam Bowie, no one mentions Hakeem.
Bowie wouldn’t even be remembered today if he hadn’t been drafted ahead of Jordan. How bad is your luck to have your career taken away by injuries and then get shit on until the end of time because the guy behind you in your draft becomes the GOAT?
Could Russel guard guards? Hakeem was extremely versatile. Look at his career steal numbers.
No disrespect to Russel. Hakeem also was going against much better all around athletes.
Yes, even moreso than Hakeem. You can find video of him out on the perimeter and then following the guard inside, where they veer off instead of challenge him with a shot, even against top athletes like Oscar Robertson.
You punish his ability by saying his oppositions are wack, but you don’t give him credit for creating all the defensive skills by himself as the OG, while Olajuwn gets to watch and learn from the ones before him.
Yes Russell could guard any position. Russell was so quick and agile, he would guard 1-5 on a daily basis during his career. Plenty of interviews that talk about how dominate Russell was defensively
Not just any event either. He did the fucking High Jump at 6’10”, which isn’t an ideal height for the High Jump at all. His record at USF still stands to this day.
Can Russell guard guards? Are you seriously asking that? He’s probably the greatest defender in NBA history and arguably the best athlete to ever play the game. He can defend anyone.
Lebron James is the greatest athlete ever, he is the only player capable of defending the 1-5 at an elite level for full games. Some bigs can switch and not get cooked but Miami Lebron was locking down Tony Parker and D rose.
Full games? Bron has never even played a full game at the professional level. Russell’s biggest rival wilt famously averaged more minutes in a season than were in a game because of overtime. Bron is talented, crazily so. He is also one of the best players ever but you are misinformed if you think those old guys can’t keep up
Yes Russell could but regardless “best defender ever” is a different thing than “most versatile defender.” Russell could have been worse at defending guards and still been more impactful overall as a defender.
They didn’t track steals and blocks in Russel’s era. Russel was the versatile big man. He could hold Wilt in check and lock down everyone else. He was an elite track athlete, had incredible lateral quickness and jumping ability. Just watch some of his footage, he’s an incredible defender.
Wilt averaged 29 pts and 28 rebounds against Russell. Both slightly above his average. The idea that Russell slowed him is false. But Wilt didn't have a gaggle of All Stars to support him for most of his career.
>most complete center (and best defensive player) in NBA history
I like Hakeem but what is the justification for Hakeem over Kareem? Kareem had a better peak, better longevity and more championships. Hakeem might be a better defender but Kareem ain't a slouch on that end either.
Shaq admits that Hakeem is the only center better than him (not that his opinion matters). & Kareem is great, but the question is which draft was best of all time. And there isn’t a center on the same level as Hakeem defensively. Maybe some that were quick and could guard guards or big and block shots / control the paint, but not both. Been watching the NBA for 30+ years and haven’t seen anything close to it.
>Shaq admits that Hakeem is the only center better than him (not that his opinion matters).
I mean given that Shaq is also one of the best centers of all-time, I'd say his opinion matters more than most.
It has to be 84.
MJ (the GOAT)
Olajuwon (Top-4 center all-time)
Stockton (all-time assists and steals leader, the prototypical PGA)
Barkley (an absolute monster and a stat machine)
96.
Iverson, Nash and Kobe all one MVP’s.
Ray Allen was also a superstar and HOF.
Peja and Marbury were both borderline superstars for brief time.
Antione Walker was a multi time allstar.
Big Z was a longterm starter and allstar and is an alltime great cav.
Derrick Fisher is an alltime great winner and has made a massive impact on the league (Players union).
didnt even mention allstars Jermaine ONeal andSharieff Abdur Rahim.
Marcus Camby was a DPOY and despite injuries is a great defender.
84 has 3 MVPs and MJ is better than Kobe, Hakeem is better than AI and Barkley is better than Nash all time.
Stockton was a superstar and HOF.
Alvin Robertson and Kevin Willis were both All NBA and made it one fewer time than Peja and Starbury.
I don’t think the guys after that come close to making up the gap at the top and at the end of the day, only 5 guys can be on the floor at the time and 84s 5 absolutely wrecks 96s 5.
I am whelmed overall. I think AI is super overrated. Walker, Marbury, Rahim are just guys. Camby was legit. Not guys who are 1s on winning teams outside Kobe and Nash. Maybe Allen.
The fact that Kobe gets posthumously glazed by a decent chunk of the league doesn’t change the fact that his stretch as best player on Earth was about 3 years long.
Idk why people pretend Kobe's death changed anything about how people see his legacy. People have been talking about him the same way since his 5th ring. He has always been your favourite players favourite player, his death didn't change that.
He at most lost to Nash once. Ain't no way anyone was thinking Kobe was the MVP in 05.
'06 you could've given it to anyone from Kobe LeBron dirk or Nash and it's not a robbery either.
A better question would be, could the 84 draft class beat the best players from two of the draft classes above?
The 84 class laps the field so you'd have to handicap to make the debate interesting.
Prime Olajuwon looked like the best center I ever saw play in his prime. Barkley in his prime was a freak. Stockton had insane defense combined with being the floor general of his era and is the perfect complement to other star players. Oh, and MJ is good I guess. All 4 of those players are some of the best defensive players at their position to say nothing of their offensive prowess.
Clarification: I meant what combinations would lose to 84. Bragging that two draft classes would beat a single draft class is meh.
A more interesting framing: 84 + Any of the other draft classes would dominate 96 + 03.
You going go give 84 team prime Dirk 98, prime Kawhi 11, prime Steph 09, Prime Luka 18 (we might not have seen his prime yet), or prime Chris Mullin 85 (floor spacing.)
I think the 84 team dominates in most pairings and wins in a close games in other pairings.
Respectfully, no shot.
Stockton, MJ, Kawhi, Barkley, and Olajuwon with Kyrie, Butler, Klay, A Robertson, Otis Thorpe, K Willis on the bench.
Melo will get cooked on defense. D Wade will be under lock and key. There is footage of Lebron going "Damn" when Kawhi subbed into a finals game. Olajuwon for interior defense which is a cheat code and the round mound of rebound grabbing every board.
The problem with your squad also is that there are too many people who need the ball in their hands to be valuable. Lebron is running point? Okay, Nash is useless. Kobe needs the ball. D. Wade needs to ball. Melo needs the ball.
96+03 is very, very gifted. Individually, they are all excellent. However, they lack the synergy on offense and elite defense to beat 84+11. You made the claim:
>96 + 03 **easily beats** any pairing you make with 84 that doesn’t include one of them.
And you're arguing I am not giving the opposition a "fair shake". GTFOH lol. Is the pot calling the kettle black?
Go watch what "not yet" prime Kawhi did to prime Lebron again. Who is going to guard Olajuwon? Take off the clown paint. 96+03 would get cooked.
Lack of elite defence? Are you joking? They have a stack of great to all time great defenders. Lebron, Wade, (early 2000s) Kobe, Bosh, Wallace lineup would be every bit as good defensively as anything a different draft class trots out.
96 and 03 have AI, Ray Allen, Kobe, Nash, Ben Wallace, LeBron, Carmelo, DWade, Bosh as legitimate all timers.
Then they have whatever combination of Antoine Walker, Reef, David West, Kyle Korver, Jermaine O’Neal, Ilgauskas, Stojakovic and Chris Kaman gives them extra skillsets they think are useful.
96 and 03 are the clear top 3 draft classes. And the drop off from them to any other class than 86 is massive.
You could run an amazing team just from the '84 draft
PG: Stockton
SG: Jordan
SF: Jerome Kersey? The weakest link but a good player.
PF: Barkley
C: Olajuwon
84:Jordan,stock,Hakeem,Charles Barkley
96:Kobe,Nash,AI,Ray Allen,Jermaine O’Neal,Ben Wallace (technicallly),and peja
03:Bron,Wade,Melo,Bosh,West,and Korver
09:Harden,Steph,Blake,demar,Jrue
18:Luka,Trae,Shai,Jalen Brunson,Michael porter jr,ayton,mikal bridges,and Jaren Jackson jr
98:Dirk,pierce,Vince carter,Rashad Lewis,Antwan Jamison,and Larry Hughes
11:Kyrie,Kawhi,Klay, and jimmy buckets
85:Ewing,Malone,Chris mullin,detlef,and Joe dumars
The depth of the 1984 class is being slept on. Alvin Robertson was DPOY. Michael cage won a rebounding title and is one of the all time great offensive rebounders. Sam Perkins, Otis Thorpe, and Kevin Willis all played well into the 90s (I think Willis retired in 2002).
Its 96 not even close.
Kobe mvp, 5 time champ and top 10 all time
Nash 2 time mvp atleast top 40 all time
Iverson 1 time mvp also atleast top 40 all time
Ray allen all nba player, 2 time champ, HOFer and a top 3 shooter all time
Ben wallace 4 time dpoy, top 3 defender of all time and the anchor if the 04 pistons
Marcus camby, multiple defensive teams and a dpoy
Jermaine oneal, 6x all star, 3x all nba, finished 3rd in mvp in 04
Peja stojakovic, 3x all star, all nba and champion
Stephon marbury, 2x all star, 2x all nba
Antoine walker, 3x all star and champ
Zydrunas ilgauskas 2x allstar
In terms of qualify it's MJ/Barkley/Hakeem/Stockton and it's not even close. That's 3 mvps, including the goat and the best all around center ever. The weakest link is one most durable players ever and the assist/steals king.
Maybe. 3 MVP candidates, 1 DPoy, 2 DPoY candidates, another all-NBA guy, and some other all-star level guys. '18 could have a lot of hardware when it's all said and done.
Edit: forgot about the DPoY from last year.
Let’s not forget that the ‘98 draft had Al Harrington, president and CEO of Al Harrington’s Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm-Flailing Tube Man Emporium and Warehouse!
Hall of Famers/ Hall of Fame potential
1984:
Akeem Olajuwon
Michael Jordan
Charles Barkley
John Stockton
Oscar Schmidt^1
1985:
Patrick Ewing
Chris Mullin
Karl Malone
Joe Dumars
Arvydas Sabonis^2
1996:
Allen Iverson
Ray Allen
Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
1998:
Vince Carter
Dirk Nowitzki
Paul Pierce
2003:
LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
2009:
Blake Griffin
James Harden
Stephen Curry
DeMar DeRozan
Jrue Holiday
2011:
Kyrie Erving
Klay Thompson
Kawhi Leonard
Jimmy Butler
2018:
Luka Dončić
Trae Young
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Jalen Brunson
1. Drafted by the New Jersey Nets, but never played in the NBA
2. Drafted by the Portland Trail Blazers, but didn’t play for them until the 1995-1996 season.
96 vs 03 and it isn't close.
Allen, Kobe, AI and then Bron, Wade, Melo, and Bosh to headline each group. Takes it by far.
Probably 03 wins on sheer top heaviness but I could understand people picking 96 since you had a better second tier group of players.
Man I remember when the warriors drafted curry and had him with monte Ellis starting. Monte could drop 40 pts randomly. What a weird guard heavy dynamic on that team
Whichever way you slice it, there are 3 top classes and then all the rest: 84, 96, and 03 in whichever order you want to argue. Huge gap to the fourth place draft class.
We all know that there are only three options. It's 1984, 1996, or 2003. You can make a case for all of them. But it's one of those three.
I'll go 1984 though.
That draft class would have been 1-3 with a Super team if not for a player from 96 draft hitting a 3 pointer to save their ass. No logic to declare them the best class. The only answer is 84 vs. 96.
The answer is 1984, with 2003 coming second place.
That having been said, it is bonkers that 2018 legitimately belongs on this list already. Those dudes are only 6 seasons into their careers.
Jump ahead a decade, and that class has a shot to be the new champ.
I mean, after 6 years, 2018 already has as many All Star players as 1998 (5), and more MVP finalists (2, Dirk being the only one from 2018).
Trae has three All Star appearances, an All NBA, and will end up high on the all time scoring and assist lists as long as he has decent longevity. Brunson just broke out as an All NBA'er this season, and is just entering his prime. JJJ already had a DPOY, an All Star and two blocks titles.
It's rare for a class to have two legit MVP contenders (eg. 2011 only has Kawhi, 1998 only has Dirk, etc), and it's rare for a class that produces a couple of MVP's to have depth (5 All Stars already, and a pile of starters like Mikal Bridges, Michael Porter Jr, Anfernee Simons, Deandre Ayton, Wendel Carter Jr, Colin Sexton, Miles Bridges, Donte Divincenzo, Timelord, Mitchell Robinson, Gary Trent Jr, Bruce Brown, De'Anthony Melton).
How many guys do you actually think come out of your average draft? Go actually compare. Hell, go actually look at how much your average draft has accomplished after only 6 seasons. We're talking about a bunch of 25-27 years olds, and they already compare well.
1984 vs 1985: 85 has good quantity of all stars, but qualitatively they don’t match 1984: the best player of the 85 draft (Karl Malone) is comparable to the third best player of the 84 draft (Charles Barkley).
2003 vs 2009: 2009 was good, but Steph, Harden, DeMar, Blake Griffin is not is equal to LeBron, DWade, Melo, and Bosh, plus 2003 had more all stars.
1996 vs 1998: 1996 had more hall of famers (5 vs 3) and then six more players make an all star team to 1998’s three, plus Kobe was better than anyone in 1998 and Steve Nash + Allen Iverson are better than anyone in 1998 except Dirk.
2011 vs 2018: this is the first one where one isn’t clearly better than the other, but I’ll take 2011 because slightly more all stars/all nbas plus three different 2011 players have been major pieces of championship teams (Kyrie, Kawhi, Klay Thompson). I could see this changing if the 2018 players go on to have major success.
1996 vs 2011: 1996 is just deeper and qualitatively better: Kobe over Kawhi, Nash/AI over Jimmy Butler/Kyrie, etc.
1984 vs 2003: now this one’s super close. By the numbers 1984 had four hall of famers (technically five but Oscar Schmidt never stepped onto an NBA court), plus two all nba and one all star. 2003 will have four hall of famers (LeBron and Melo are locks), plus five all stars. 2003 has more all star players total by nine to seven, but I’d narrowly take 1984: ignoring Jordan vs LeBron, I’d take Hakeem over Wade, Melo, or Bosh. I’d say the same thing about Charles Barkley. Even John Stockton I might not take over Wade but I’d put over Melo or Bosh.
So the finals would be between 1984 (four hall of famers, two all nba, one all star) vs 1996 (five hall of famers, three all nba, three all stars), and quantity is in 1996’s favor. However, the quality gap for hall of famers is arguably even bigger than for 2003, as not only is MJ better than Kobe, I’d take Hakeem, Barkley, and maybe even John Stockton all time above any of the non Kobe 1996 hall of famers. However, given the greater quantity of all stars in 1996, I’d leave it up to the eye of the beholder: 1984 had the best top four or five, 1996 was the deepest.
I think 96 is the deepest class and 1984 is the best at the top
Agreed. If you start ranking the best player against best player and second against second, how far do you have to go before 96 starts taking W's? I think the 84 squad would absolutely clap the 96 squad.
Who would be your 5v5? Jordan, Barkley, Hakeem, Stockton, obviously. Then there are a bunch of PF/C guys. I'm not sure who fits best with those 4.
Sam Perkins is probably the best fit, while he's also a PF he's at least a good shooter so will fit in ok with Hakeem and Chuck. Alternatively you could go for Alvin Robertson and move MJ up to SF.
Can put Alvin Robertson in and move Jordan to small forward or Barkley down to small forward and Perkins, a great shooting big man, into the power forward role
Both Thorpe and Willis had very long careers with 1 allstar appearance and 1 title each but I might go with Kersey in that lineup for his 4 or 5 year stretch in the late 80s early 90s.
Except the number one pick was not Jordan.
Yea it was Hakeem...he is better than anyone in 96
Some redditor put it nicely . "you wanna know how great Hakeem was? He was picked ahead of Jordan and no one questioned it then or now".
Haha I said that like 6-7 years ago...like the exact same thing. Pretty sure its not original thought...people been saying it since the 90s. We always joke about Sam Bowie, no one mentions Hakeem.
Bowie wouldn’t even be remembered today if he hadn’t been drafted ahead of Jordan. How bad is your luck to have your career taken away by injuries and then get shit on until the end of time because the guy behind you in your draft becomes the GOAT?
And?
What does that even have to do with their comment
Which shows you how good that draft was
huh?
Jordan was the number 2 pick of his draft year. All the rest were the number ones.
Jordan was picked third. What do you mean by 'all the rest were the number ones.'?
Forreal, only 3 dudes up there were #1 picks
Yep straight up stars at like 10 even
Honestly I think 85 might be deeper than 96
'96 had 10 allstars. Doesn't top '84, but was absolutely loaded.
Fun fact: 1970 had 12
96 should be above 84 because its way harder to have stars drafted in the 2nd round than the Top 5.
Ah 2009, the Johnny Flynn/Ricky Rubio draft.
Graphic from NBAonESPN on IG, so don’t come at me for the selections on here 😂
84 had the goat and most complete center (and best defensive player) in NBA history
And Charles Barkley. (And incidentally the draft class with the most MVPs).
Plus John Stockton.
Yall forgetting the real gem Michael Cage
You’ve got that right, partner.
Still getting it done in church league
AKA John Shaft!
Was that the len bias draft?
Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, and Stockton? Good luck beating those guys
They could play Ryan Gosling at SF and they’d still 10 peat
They could play a 4 foot amputee and still go 98-0
Poor Ryan Gosling…
Is Ryan Gosling famously bad at basketball?
No, he's Kenough
:)
Bill Russell is the best defensive player IMO
Russel was a better defender than Hakeem. With that said he was an absolutely incredible defender.
Could Russel guard guards? Hakeem was extremely versatile. Look at his career steal numbers. No disrespect to Russel. Hakeem also was going against much better all around athletes.
Yes, even moreso than Hakeem. You can find video of him out on the perimeter and then following the guard inside, where they veer off instead of challenge him with a shot, even against top athletes like Oscar Robertson.
True but nobody was really shooting from range in those days either.
Not with the same frequency, but they did. There were guys who took outside shots and could hit them if you left them open.
You punish his ability by saying his oppositions are wack, but you don’t give him credit for creating all the defensive skills by himself as the OG, while Olajuwn gets to watch and learn from the ones before him.
Yes Russell could guard any position. Russell was so quick and agile, he would guard 1-5 on a daily basis during his career. Plenty of interviews that talk about how dominate Russell was defensively
Exactly, people just see old center and think he's slow or unathletic - that man was doing the olympics as a side-hustle
Not just any event either. He did the fucking High Jump at 6’10”, which isn’t an ideal height for the High Jump at all. His record at USF still stands to this day.
Can Russell guard guards? Are you seriously asking that? He’s probably the greatest defender in NBA history and arguably the best athlete to ever play the game. He can defend anyone.
Lebron James is the greatest athlete ever, he is the only player capable of defending the 1-5 at an elite level for full games. Some bigs can switch and not get cooked but Miami Lebron was locking down Tony Parker and D rose.
LeBron is obviously an absurd athlete, but Russell might be even more gifted.
Full games? Bron has never even played a full game at the professional level. Russell’s biggest rival wilt famously averaged more minutes in a season than were in a game because of overtime. Bron is talented, crazily so. He is also one of the best players ever but you are misinformed if you think those old guys can’t keep up
Yes Russell could but regardless “best defender ever” is a different thing than “most versatile defender.” Russell could have been worse at defending guards and still been more impactful overall as a defender.
They didn’t track steals and blocks in Russel’s era. Russel was the versatile big man. He could hold Wilt in check and lock down everyone else. He was an elite track athlete, had incredible lateral quickness and jumping ability. Just watch some of his footage, he’s an incredible defender.
Wilt averaged 29 pts and 28 rebounds against Russell. Both slightly above his average. The idea that Russell slowed him is false. But Wilt didn't have a gaggle of All Stars to support him for most of his career.
Wilt averaged 30 ppg for his career but the rebounds is a little higher than his average.
do you know how fast oscar was? Russel could guard anyone, guards forwards or centers,
No disrespect to Russell, I also work with plumbers and nobody questions my greatness.
>most complete center (and best defensive player) in NBA history I like Hakeem but what is the justification for Hakeem over Kareem? Kareem had a better peak, better longevity and more championships. Hakeem might be a better defender but Kareem ain't a slouch on that end either.
Shaq admits that Hakeem is the only center better than him (not that his opinion matters). & Kareem is great, but the question is which draft was best of all time. And there isn’t a center on the same level as Hakeem defensively. Maybe some that were quick and could guard guards or big and block shots / control the paint, but not both. Been watching the NBA for 30+ years and haven’t seen anything close to it.
>Shaq admits that Hakeem is the only center better than him (not that his opinion matters). I mean given that Shaq is also one of the best centers of all-time, I'd say his opinion matters more than most.
Yeah poor choice of words. I should’ve said the end all be all instead.
Plus the all time assists and steals leader Stockton , and Barkley as well
96 should be above 84 because its way harder to have stars drafted in the 2nd round than the Top 5.
2003 also had the goat
It has to be 84. MJ (the GOAT) Olajuwon (Top-4 center all-time) Stockton (all-time assists and steals leader, the prototypical PGA) Barkley (an absolute monster and a stat machine)
84 is the most top heavy. 96 is maybe deeper.
Kareem, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, The Dream
Bot
84, 96, 03.
96. Iverson, Nash and Kobe all one MVP’s. Ray Allen was also a superstar and HOF. Peja and Marbury were both borderline superstars for brief time. Antione Walker was a multi time allstar. Big Z was a longterm starter and allstar and is an alltime great cav. Derrick Fisher is an alltime great winner and has made a massive impact on the league (Players union). didnt even mention allstars Jermaine ONeal andSharieff Abdur Rahim. Marcus Camby was a DPOY and despite injuries is a great defender.
84 has 3 MVPs and MJ is better than Kobe, Hakeem is better than AI and Barkley is better than Nash all time. Stockton was a superstar and HOF. Alvin Robertson and Kevin Willis were both All NBA and made it one fewer time than Peja and Starbury. I don’t think the guys after that come close to making up the gap at the top and at the end of the day, only 5 guys can be on the floor at the time and 84s 5 absolutely wrecks 96s 5.
I am whelmed overall. I think AI is super overrated. Walker, Marbury, Rahim are just guys. Camby was legit. Not guys who are 1s on winning teams outside Kobe and Nash. Maybe Allen.
Kobe and Nash both had more than one MVP
Kobe had one. Nash had 2
F*#$ me
Can't believe Kobe only had one MVP in his career. Lost to Nash twice, unbelievable.
Kobe’s stretch as best player on Earth was relatively short for a top 5-10 all timer.
It’s almost as if he wasn’t as good as some people think.
Says who? You? Lol. Ex, current NBA players, and coaches who know the game better than you and I, say Kobe is top 5 ever.
The fact that Kobe gets posthumously glazed by a decent chunk of the league doesn’t change the fact that his stretch as best player on Earth was about 3 years long.
Idk why people pretend Kobe's death changed anything about how people see his legacy. People have been talking about him the same way since his 5th ring. He has always been your favourite players favourite player, his death didn't change that.
I guess that's it, nice write up, lol. Thumps up buddy.
He had to play at the same time as tim Duncan and lebron
Kobe top 5? Top 5 of what, top 5 Laker of all-time? Lmfao! MJ, King James, Kareem, Magic, Wilt? Over which one of those players?
He at most lost to Nash once. Ain't no way anyone was thinking Kobe was the MVP in 05. '06 you could've given it to anyone from Kobe LeBron dirk or Nash and it's not a robbery either.
He actually just spelled won wrong
I know lol I thought I was being punny but didn't realize Kobe only had one
How many did Jordan have!?
Yeah it was a joke man but thanks lol read the other comments
Glad to hear it was Lmfao!
84, 2003 96, 2018 84, 96 84
I think technically Bird was ‘78 and Magic ‘79, but if they somehow counted the same because they both left college in ‘79, that would be the winner.
Also Sidney Moncrief was the #4 pick. Maybe not the greatest draft class but arguably the greatest rookie season. Bird was ROTY and Magic was FMVP
Sorry old heads it’s 2003
A better question would be, could the 84 draft class beat the best players from two of the draft classes above? The 84 class laps the field so you'd have to handicap to make the debate interesting. Prime Olajuwon looked like the best center I ever saw play in his prime. Barkley in his prime was a freak. Stockton had insane defense combined with being the floor general of his era and is the perfect complement to other star players. Oh, and MJ is good I guess. All 4 of those players are some of the best defensive players at their position to say nothing of their offensive prowess.
No. 96 and 03 combined would fuck 84 up.
Agreed
Clarification: I meant what combinations would lose to 84. Bragging that two draft classes would beat a single draft class is meh. A more interesting framing: 84 + Any of the other draft classes would dominate 96 + 03. You going go give 84 team prime Dirk 98, prime Kawhi 11, prime Steph 09, Prime Luka 18 (we might not have seen his prime yet), or prime Chris Mullin 85 (floor spacing.) I think the 84 team dominates in most pairings and wins in a close games in other pairings.
96 + 03 easily beats any pairing you make with 84 that doesn’t include one of them.
Respectfully, no shot. Stockton, MJ, Kawhi, Barkley, and Olajuwon with Kyrie, Butler, Klay, A Robertson, Otis Thorpe, K Willis on the bench. Melo will get cooked on defense. D Wade will be under lock and key. There is footage of Lebron going "Damn" when Kawhi subbed into a finals game. Olajuwon for interior defense which is a cheat code and the round mound of rebound grabbing every board. The problem with your squad also is that there are too many people who need the ball in their hands to be valuable. Lebron is running point? Okay, Nash is useless. Kobe needs the ball. D. Wade needs to ball. Melo needs the ball.
Sure if you diminish the value of every player in 96 and 03 in a way you could just as easily do for the others it sounds like an easy win.
96+03 is very, very gifted. Individually, they are all excellent. However, they lack the synergy on offense and elite defense to beat 84+11. You made the claim: >96 + 03 **easily beats** any pairing you make with 84 that doesn’t include one of them. And you're arguing I am not giving the opposition a "fair shake". GTFOH lol. Is the pot calling the kettle black? Go watch what "not yet" prime Kawhi did to prime Lebron again. Who is going to guard Olajuwon? Take off the clown paint. 96+03 would get cooked.
Lack of elite defence? Are you joking? They have a stack of great to all time great defenders. Lebron, Wade, (early 2000s) Kobe, Bosh, Wallace lineup would be every bit as good defensively as anything a different draft class trots out. 96 and 03 have AI, Ray Allen, Kobe, Nash, Ben Wallace, LeBron, Carmelo, DWade, Bosh as legitimate all timers. Then they have whatever combination of Antoine Walker, Reef, David West, Kyle Korver, Jermaine O’Neal, Ilgauskas, Stojakovic and Chris Kaman gives them extra skillsets they think are useful. 96 and 03 are the clear top 3 draft classes. And the drop off from them to any other class than 86 is massive.
84 vs 03 = 84 96 vs 18 = 96 84 vs 96 = 84
You could run an amazing team just from the '84 draft PG: Stockton SG: Jordan SF: Jerome Kersey? The weakest link but a good player. PF: Barkley C: Olajuwon
All I know is that the answer is not 1998. Sheesh.
Hakeem, MJ, Barkley, Stockton, and Sam Bowie. Absolutely loaded.
2003
2003 would have a better shot if Melo became what he could have been. It’s ‘84, 96, then 03
lebrons draft. whichever class had bron will always be to best because they have the GOAT
1984 an 1996 💯
84:Jordan,stock,Hakeem,Charles Barkley 96:Kobe,Nash,AI,Ray Allen,Jermaine O’Neal,Ben Wallace (technicallly),and peja 03:Bron,Wade,Melo,Bosh,West,and Korver 09:Harden,Steph,Blake,demar,Jrue 18:Luka,Trae,Shai,Jalen Brunson,Michael porter jr,ayton,mikal bridges,and Jaren Jackson jr 98:Dirk,pierce,Vince carter,Rashad Lewis,Antwan Jamison,and Larry Hughes 11:Kyrie,Kawhi,Klay, and jimmy buckets 85:Ewing,Malone,Chris mullin,detlef,and Joe dumars
The depth of the 1984 class is being slept on. Alvin Robertson was DPOY. Michael cage won a rebounding title and is one of the all time great offensive rebounders. Sam Perkins, Otis Thorpe, and Kevin Willis all played well into the 90s (I think Willis retired in 2002).
03. Swear to god LeBron hard carries and beats all.
Its 96 not even close. Kobe mvp, 5 time champ and top 10 all time Nash 2 time mvp atleast top 40 all time Iverson 1 time mvp also atleast top 40 all time Ray allen all nba player, 2 time champ, HOFer and a top 3 shooter all time Ben wallace 4 time dpoy, top 3 defender of all time and the anchor if the 04 pistons Marcus camby, multiple defensive teams and a dpoy Jermaine oneal, 6x all star, 3x all nba, finished 3rd in mvp in 04 Peja stojakovic, 3x all star, all nba and champion Stephon marbury, 2x all star, 2x all nba Antoine walker, 3x all star and champ Zydrunas ilgauskas 2x allstar
O3’ defined the league for 20 years
Lebron defined the league.
1- 84 2- 96 3- 85 4- 03 5- 18
2003: Wade, LeBron, Bosh, and Melo 😮💨
And Darko
84, MJ, Hakeem, Barkley and Stockton
uh I don't think 2009/1998 should be on here cause 1998 was nust Vince/Dirk/Paul Pierce, 2009 was a little better (Blake/Harden/Steph/Jrue/Derozan)
In terms of qualify it's MJ/Barkley/Hakeem/Stockton and it's not even close. That's 3 mvps, including the goat and the best all around center ever. The weakest link is one most durable players ever and the assist/steals king.
I think 2018 might end up as the best ever. It's incredibly deep and has some good high end talent
Yeah I’m an old head but 2018 is insanely deep
96 84 03 11
‘96
1996 quantity, 1984 quality!😀😀, ya know what I’m sayin
Everyone knows it’s 96.
NINE SIX
84, 96, 03
84, 03, 96, 09, 98
03. i’m biased idc
You can argue ‘84 had four Top 25 players of all time (Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Stockton). Not as deep as ‘96, but the GOAT draft nonetheless.
96 and not even close
Hahahaha what? There’s no chance anyone will ever think 2018 was the best nba draft class of all time.
Maybe. 3 MVP candidates, 1 DPoy, 2 DPoY candidates, another all-NBA guy, and some other all-star level guys. '18 could have a lot of hardware when it's all said and done. Edit: forgot about the DPoY from last year.
Could have…………
Yeah....?
84 or 03 will always be the answer.
It's 1984 and it's not particularly close
a little casual breakdown of how many players hit certain thresholds. #20,000 points: **1984** - 3 **1985** - 2 **1996** - 3 **1998** - 4 **2003** - 3 **2009** - 3 **2011** - 0 (yet? kyrie might get there, nobody else will) **2018** - 0 (obviously) #Win Shares (over 200, over 150, over 100): **1984** - 2, 4, 6 **1985** - 1, 1, 4 **1996** - 0, 1, 3 **1998** - 1, 2, 3 **2003** - 1, 1, 4 (lebron over 250) **2009** - 0, 1, 3 (still playing but almost done) **2011** - 0, 0, 1 (just jimmy B, but kawhi gets to 100 soon, kyrie also might) **2018** - 0, 0, 0 (luka only one over 50) #BPM (over 8, over 4, over 0) min 50 games: **1984** - 1, 4, 9 **1985** - 0, 2, 14 **1996** - 0, 1, 12 **1998** - 0, 1, 11 **2003** - 1, 2, 11 **2009** - 0, 2, 16 **2011** - 0, 3, 13 **2018** - 0, 3, 15 #VORP (over 100, over 50, over 10): **1984** - 2, 4, 11 **1985** - 0, 2, 14 **1996** - 0, 2, 12 **1998** - 0, 3, 10 **2003** - 1, 2, 11 (lebron over 150) **2009** - 0, 2, 13 **2011** - 0, 0, 10 **2018** - 0, 0, 5
96
Let’s not forget that the ‘98 draft had Al Harrington, president and CEO of Al Harrington’s Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm-Flailing Tube Man Emporium and Warehouse!
Hall of Famers/ Hall of Fame potential 1984: Akeem Olajuwon Michael Jordan Charles Barkley John Stockton Oscar Schmidt^1 1985: Patrick Ewing Chris Mullin Karl Malone Joe Dumars Arvydas Sabonis^2 1996: Allen Iverson Ray Allen Kobe Bryant Steve Nash 1998: Vince Carter Dirk Nowitzki Paul Pierce 2003: LeBron James Carmelo Anthony Chris Bosh Dwyane Wade 2009: Blake Griffin James Harden Stephen Curry DeMar DeRozan Jrue Holiday 2011: Kyrie Erving Klay Thompson Kawhi Leonard Jimmy Butler 2018: Luka Dončić Trae Young Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Jalen Brunson 1. Drafted by the New Jersey Nets, but never played in the NBA 2. Drafted by the Portland Trail Blazers, but didn’t play for them until the 1995-1996 season.
2018
96
Best overall 1984 class. Deepest 1996 class. End of discussion.
96 and 84
84's the best, you take that draft class away and the NBA today wouldn't have the history that we know about today!
2018 is a sleeper draft
96 vs 03 and it isn't close. Allen, Kobe, AI and then Bron, Wade, Melo, and Bosh to headline each group. Takes it by far. Probably 03 wins on sheer top heaviness but I could understand people picking 96 since you had a better second tier group of players.
1960 & 1987 better than at least a few of these.
96. 03 84
84 and 03
Man I remember when the warriors drafted curry and had him with monte Ellis starting. Monte could drop 40 pts randomly. What a weird guard heavy dynamic on that team
‘96 then ‘03
Whichever way you slice it, there are 3 top classes and then all the rest: 84, 96, and 03 in whichever order you want to argue. Huge gap to the fourth place draft class.
It goes 1984, 2003 and then 1996
1984. Jordan, Olajuwon, Stockton and Barkley.
2013 should have been on this
We all know that there are only three options. It's 1984, 1996, or 2003. You can make a case for all of them. But it's one of those three. I'll go 1984 though.
1984 has one of the biggest ever legends, and 4 guys who were franchise defining players for the next 10 years. So 84 it is
2003 IMO
That draft class would have been 1-3 with a Super team if not for a player from 96 draft hitting a 3 pointer to save their ass. No logic to declare them the best class. The only answer is 84 vs. 96.
I thought we were picking out the bracket like 2003>2009
1st tier: 1984, 2003, 2nd tier: 1996, 2011.
‘03
The answer is 1984, with 2003 coming second place. That having been said, it is bonkers that 2018 legitimately belongs on this list already. Those dudes are only 6 seasons into their careers. Jump ahead a decade, and that class has a shot to be the new champ.
I don't think they belong on this list actually. They've got Luka and shai. I don't think the rest will be in the conversation 20 years from now.
I mean, after 6 years, 2018 already has as many All Star players as 1998 (5), and more MVP finalists (2, Dirk being the only one from 2018). Trae has three All Star appearances, an All NBA, and will end up high on the all time scoring and assist lists as long as he has decent longevity. Brunson just broke out as an All NBA'er this season, and is just entering his prime. JJJ already had a DPOY, an All Star and two blocks titles. It's rare for a class to have two legit MVP contenders (eg. 2011 only has Kawhi, 1998 only has Dirk, etc), and it's rare for a class that produces a couple of MVP's to have depth (5 All Stars already, and a pile of starters like Mikal Bridges, Michael Porter Jr, Anfernee Simons, Deandre Ayton, Wendel Carter Jr, Colin Sexton, Miles Bridges, Donte Divincenzo, Timelord, Mitchell Robinson, Gary Trent Jr, Bruce Brown, De'Anthony Melton). How many guys do you actually think come out of your average draft? Go actually compare. Hell, go actually look at how much your average draft has accomplished after only 6 seasons. We're talking about a bunch of 25-27 years olds, and they already compare well.
Luka, Shai, and Brunson if you only want to count top 5 MVP guys this from year.
I don't think brunson will be remembered the way Luka and shai will be.
Had me till Luka got in the picture .he is great but too young and hasn’t performed great for long enough to be with MJ and Lebron/Steph etc
84>85 03>09 96>98 18>11
84 this is not a question. Jordan and Hakeem automatically cancel out all the others basically
1984 vs 1985: 85 has good quantity of all stars, but qualitatively they don’t match 1984: the best player of the 85 draft (Karl Malone) is comparable to the third best player of the 84 draft (Charles Barkley). 2003 vs 2009: 2009 was good, but Steph, Harden, DeMar, Blake Griffin is not is equal to LeBron, DWade, Melo, and Bosh, plus 2003 had more all stars. 1996 vs 1998: 1996 had more hall of famers (5 vs 3) and then six more players make an all star team to 1998’s three, plus Kobe was better than anyone in 1998 and Steve Nash + Allen Iverson are better than anyone in 1998 except Dirk. 2011 vs 2018: this is the first one where one isn’t clearly better than the other, but I’ll take 2011 because slightly more all stars/all nbas plus three different 2011 players have been major pieces of championship teams (Kyrie, Kawhi, Klay Thompson). I could see this changing if the 2018 players go on to have major success. 1996 vs 2011: 1996 is just deeper and qualitatively better: Kobe over Kawhi, Nash/AI over Jimmy Butler/Kyrie, etc. 1984 vs 2003: now this one’s super close. By the numbers 1984 had four hall of famers (technically five but Oscar Schmidt never stepped onto an NBA court), plus two all nba and one all star. 2003 will have four hall of famers (LeBron and Melo are locks), plus five all stars. 2003 has more all star players total by nine to seven, but I’d narrowly take 1984: ignoring Jordan vs LeBron, I’d take Hakeem over Wade, Melo, or Bosh. I’d say the same thing about Charles Barkley. Even John Stockton I might not take over Wade but I’d put over Melo or Bosh. So the finals would be between 1984 (four hall of famers, two all nba, one all star) vs 1996 (five hall of famers, three all nba, three all stars), and quantity is in 1996’s favor. However, the quality gap for hall of famers is arguably even bigger than for 2003, as not only is MJ better than Kobe, I’d take Hakeem, Barkley, and maybe even John Stockton all time above any of the non Kobe 1996 hall of famers. However, given the greater quantity of all stars in 1996, I’d leave it up to the eye of the beholder: 1984 had the best top four or five, 1996 was the deepest.
Why the 2024 draft class isn't there?
Luka is trash