stern changed the game forever, driving the league into a fun, commercialised sport and taking it out of the worst time in league history. i think it’s him
Stern and it’s not even close. Stern was one of the best commissioners in sports.
He was the one that helped institute the salary cap, which was before he was even commissioner and also started the lottery.
Dude was a legend.
Stern. He inherited a league that wasn’t in a great place and turned it into an international phenomenon. The NBA FINALS were broadcast on tape delay before Stern to give you an idea of what it was like.
Overall? Stern. Silver isn't strict enough. But Stern also was likely corrupt, and likely rigged draft lotteries so that certain teams got to pick first overall. Derrick Rose is certainly a good example of that. However, silver is just such a push over that I almost don't care enough
He was definitely dirty, the ewing draft, burying the ref fixing games and smaller things here and there. His only goal was to grow the league and he did a great job regardless of the shady stuff
It’s not like Rose was the clear number one that season a little before the draft. He wasn’t a once in a generation guy like LeBron. He made a ton of noise that year at Memphis, but Michael Beasley was regarded as a top pick by many that season.
1. Just so happens Cleveland get #1 pick for hometown kid Lebron
2. Just so happens Bulls get #1 pick for hometown kid Drose
3. Just so happens Pelicans get Zion whenever rumors been going on a for Years AD to LA.
4. Just so happens spurs get #1 pick for Wemby, yeah they were bad but spurs with pop was best landing spot for wemby. Rockets or pistons should’ve got the #1 pick.
Are you too dumb to put patterns together?
Motherfuckers want proof of corruption right in their face in the public eye. Yeah bro sometimes you gotta connect the dots and use a lil bit of that brain.
I don't. but I put more faith on chance and the lottery system being legit than I do on spinning together a full out conspiracy of the league regularly tampering in the draft year after year based on zero actual proof.
I don’t think they tamper it every year but with the prospects that are hyped up to be great, yeah I do.
The league has been known for doing sketchy stuff and money is everything .
Bringing Chicago back to relevance post Jordan via a hometown hero and bringing the best player since Jordan to his hometown is great marketing for the league.
In the past ten years its been
Atlanta(9th worst record)
San Antonio(2nd worst)
Orlando(2nd worst)
Detroit(2nd worst)
Minnesota(3rd worst)
New Orleans(7th worst)
Phoenix(worst)
Brooklyn(worst)
Philly(worst)
Minnesota(worst)
7 out of 10 years it was one of the 2 teams with the worst record, with a 3rd, 7th and 9th as well. That seems pretty in line with expected random results.
but I would love to hear your theory how Atlanta, Orlando, Detroit and Minnesota as the winners four of the past five years were the teams that happen to be the exact fit that the narrative needs.
The person you’re responding to is using what they said as an argument against Silver, not Stern.
Stern’s alleged rigging was brought up, so he’s alleging that Silver did the exact same thing.
He isn’t saying that Stern rigged for the Spurs from the grave if that’s what you’re implying
I think the balance has shifted. Players are now causally sitting games because they feel like it. Players are taking 50% of the revenue as well, which I’m all for but don’t sit games. Thankfully the 65 game rule was announced. It forces stars to play.
Until we stop measuring legacies based off of performance in the playoffs we're not going to stop people resting. You know who played damn near every regular season game at an MVP level but was often gassed in the Playoffs, James Harden. Aint no way people who don't love the game like him will risk the bag and their legacy to play every game.
You know who else played nearly every single regular season game and then didn't get gassed and still delivered in the playoffs? Just among the SG's. MJ and Kobe. Both guys raised their game in the playoffs while still playing every regular season game where they weren't legitimately injured (and many times, particularly in Kobe's case, even when he was). Harden not resting in the regular season is a good thing but let's not blame him not resting for a lack of playoff achievements.
I understand your point but the pace of the game was drastically slower when those guys played. And wings weren't basically mobile bigs. We all know Jimmy Buckets takes the regular season off and is lauded for it. I can't think of many stars that play 38+ mins without rests in today's league bc one regular season game isn't worth that much for winning a championship or legacy.
In MJ's time yes but I'm 100% sure that Kobe expanded significantly more effort than Harden in both the RS and the playoffs. His game was predicated on off ball movement to a greater extent than Harden's was and he also didn't use picks as much as Harden did to get to his spots when he was the ball handler.
I think the issue with Butler is the expectations. Harden is considered a top 5 SG ever so he obviously will have more expectations to deliver in both the RS and the playoffs. Butler isn't really in the SF all time rankings and is primarily just considered an ATG playoff riser. I do believe that Butler shouldn't receive credit for taking the RS off though.
Show us on the doll where the commissioner touched you lol
It’s a business sugartits. Stop being such a bag girl rebel. You sound like you are angry at the NBA lol.
Oh whoooooa! Hey everyone this guy made a homophobic comment on the internet! Did you think of that on your own? No way. That is way too cutting edge to be something you came up with all by yourself. If you did you’ll be goddamn famous my boy. Who would have ever thought to combine belittling homosexuals with the information superhighway? I’ll tell you what, you might have just started a new trend. So cool. I bet people tell you how cool you are all the time.
Stern is miles better despite his many flaws. Took the league from 3rd in America and full of drunks/cokeheads to a global powerhouse & cultural trendsetter
Silver took over in 2014 and product quality / ratings have been on a continuous downward trend since 2016 (with the exception of 2019).
Really that was Stern who made the NBA a global powerhouse? I thought it was Bird/Magic & Michael Jordan who did that
Are you Sure Adam silver made ratings dip after 2016? Because in the summer of 2016 KD joined the warriors and ruined the competitive balance of the NBA after maybe the best playoff/finals in 20+ years.
players/teams decide ratings not commissioners
To me players respect Silver in a way they didn't respect Stern and Silver has mentioned Players mental health while Stern only cared about their perceived image as "thugs".
It doesn’t help that baseball in general is not all that fun to watch for the average person. I love going to games when I can but I never turn a game on tv save for a few playoff and world series games
You’re right.
Stern did a fantastic job. Basketball does also benefit from how one individual can impact the game far more than almost any other sport. Soccer I think should be far more popular in the states for that reason but nobody has really tried. The best players absolutely dominate the games. I don’t find it boring to watch at all. Maybe with the MLB, they just became stagnant for so long relying solely on being Americas Pastime instead of adapting as time went on. The new rules have helped a little. However, without a salary cap and more competitive balance I’m afraid it will never really get better.
Who do you think promoted and turned mj into the “goat” it wasn’t just his play. Stern had a big hand in making mj the goat through his partners in the media.He changed rules to benefit mj, protected him from any controversy like all the gambling mj use to do, ppl were linking him to mafias and betting on his own games, there are mafias guys from the 90s saying how much money mj use to lose. Stories got buried before they even took off cause of stern. How do u think the cover up for the refs scandal happened, stern ran shit like a mafia boss but he did it to protect the league and pumped guys to sell the league.
He’s one of the main guys to save the league too, he was great at PR and marketing.
Lmao sir MJ is the goat because of his play but if you want to give credit for building a narrative it goes to Nike, not Stern
Nike made MJ the first athlete to ever have his own signature shoe line and promoted him heavily.
Then he comes out and is not only the best rookie we've ever seen, but someone so graceful even non basketball fans knew watching him was special...
Sterns NBA banned MJ's shoe which Nike paid the fines for. So yeah Spike Lee did more to promote Jordan the Stern.
Additionally What rule did Stern he change to favor Jordan? Seriously hand checking was still in place, the pistons beat the fuck out of him for years.
Also he didn't protect Jordan from anything considering MJ gambling controversies are well known, have you seen the last dance? Print media was even speculating it may have gotten his father killed
I'm not saying Stern does nothing I'm saying what he does ultimately doesn't matter for the ratings. It comes down to the players/teams being exciting and the commissioner has Zero to do with that.
Exactly. I’m not saying Adam Silver doesn’t think this way too behind closed doors, but David Stern during his tenure in the 2000s implemented a lot of regulations that were obviously racially motivated. If you think they weren’t, you’re choosing to ignore what’s right in your face. Since Silver came into the role many of those regulations disappeared to my knowledge.
Provide more than 1 example. This should be easy since there's "a lot", according to you.
My guess is you'll bring up the dress code and literally nothing else. Once you prove me right, I'll show you why you're wrong.
You are literally arguing semantics. “Actually he only made ONE racist ass change!” as if that somehow makes it better.
Let’s totally ignore how this “one” change was implemented in a very broad and interpretive manner as well.
First off, you're very fucking stupid. Secondly, I like how you immediately abandoned your lie. I thought there were many examples? What happened to that? Are you full of shit or not? Are you going to address this? I bet you won't because you're a loser who deliberately shares false information like a clown.
"Semantics" lolololol so one example is equal to many examples? You think it's the exact same thing?
Explain to me how the dress code policy was racist and then explain to me the repercussions of that policy. I bet you won't do this either because you're a dipshit who assumed nobody would call you out on your obvious bullshit.
I don't mind the jersey ads that much, a small patch isn't a big deal, at least it's not like soccer jerseys.
I think the embrace of sports gambling by the league is a bigger deal. Gambling ads are omnipresent and when you've got big money riding on outcomes it casts doubt on refs and outcomes. You've got Gobert, Jamal Murray and Luka making money sign gestures at the refs this playoffs, looks bad. There's already enough doubt on refs competence, a long history of past questionable calls, the Tim Donaghy gambling scandal and Scott Foster the extender who holds grudges against players.
But it’s a slippery slope, I guarantee the ads will get bigger or there will be more ads within the next 20 years. It’ll go to looking like WNBA jerseys and then soccer
I did. But I think this is a prime example of it not being a fallacy, because every CBA I guarantee more ads on jerseys will be discussed, and both players and executives will never give up the leverage of extra money and will always have this as an option to increase revenue in the short term.
You can’t compare commissioners like you do players. Unless they’re obscenely misguided, better or worse is really tough to measure.
That being said, Stern’s North Star and passion was making basketball an international sport. Everything he did was driven by that, and he succeeded. It’s unfortunate he didn’t get to see the NBA of today because it’s just now, truly coming becoming a reality.
Now that it’s become such a global player, I feel Silver is doing a really good job of optimizing and modernizing basketball and I don’t Stern would’ve been as creative or exploratory as Silver is. It’s been a really good transition with both commissioner’s strengths being perfectly timed/fitting for their eras.
David Stern. He was instrumental in worldwide growth of the game. Basketball wouldn't be what it is today without him. Adam Silver has seemed like a caretaker for most of his time in the job. He's starting to put his own stamp on the league with the PiT and IST, both of which I'm iffy on (for different reasons), but he seems like a good negotiator considering the new media rights deals. The league's gonna expand. I like how they made their mid-season rule-implementation changes to address how unwatchable the game was becoming (but they're the ones who made it that way in the first place). Silver's not terrible, he just comes off as weak.
Stern>>>
Silver is a joke, he’s not remotely respected by the players he’s money hungry and says a lot of stuff to appease fans but the changes he claims will happen don’t come to fruition.
It’s all about getting more viewership instead of making a product worth viewing.
The league is beyond soft with more divas than players.
The refs run a muck every single game.
Foul baiting is still a thing even though he said he’d change it.
In season tournament has damaged the payoffs because guys are getting hurt to win a tournament the fans don’t want.
This is all without talking about the biggest issue: SPORTS BETTING. It has destroyed the competitive nature of the game, it has destroyed discourse, it has destroyed fandom.
I’m sick of hearing about people’s parlays, I’m sure players have, I’m sick of “this team is favourite to win” just for that team to lose in a fixed game where vegas wins every time. Look at the finals, Dallas favourite to win game 1,2&3 by vegas and lose all. Then Boston favourite to win game 4 Boston lose in a blatantly fixed game where they lose in the first quarter as the refs give foul after foul to Dallas while Boston get hacked every time down the court.
It’s ridiculous.
I don’t think Stern was a hero I think he came off a little bigoted at times toward the league talent. But he knew what the fans wanted and he knew how to get the players to buy in to the league, silver is a joke, just look at any interaction he has with the players or even the tnt crew, they all look at him like a cheque and he looks genuinely uncomfortable next to them, that’s their boss and he looks scared of them.
Then there’s the absolute joke that the WNBA is while silver goes and claims to genuinely care all while he lets NBA players beat the F out of their partners and play the next game.
He’s a pathetic spineless snivelling money hungry snake and the sooner he’s ousted the sooner (if they can replace him with someone with a brain and spine) the league can improve.
Everyone in here on their knees for David Stern as if he’s not the guy who covered up the extent of the ref gambling scandal when Donaghy was caught by the FBI fixing games, you have to laugh, not even getting to Stern fixing drafts and taking the NBA out of Seattle, then there’s the Lakers fans who still think Kobe would have another ring if Stern didn’t bow to the complaints of owners like Mark Cuban and Jordan who said the Chris Paul trade was unfair
You guys can say Stern made the league more popular without pretending he wasn’t also corrupt as fuck
Stern is the GOAT commish. Silver can make a case for 2nd once the league expands again, but stern was their for the biggest period of growth for the league
Silver is the only commissioner that actually listens to what fans want, unfortunately I think over time that’s hurt the quality of the league, but players are definitely happier
Stern is over rated and a cheat.
Donaghy put a massive asterisk next to his name. He tampered with games for profit. The players were great regardless of him.
Silver. Silver ushered in some of the biggest TV deals ever. The NBA has a thriving social media presence. He skillfully led the NBA through covid 19. He’s also ushering the NBA through the sports gambling minefield.
Stern imposed a dress code. He also ignored Donald Stirling until it was too late. Stirling lost several lawsuits for racial discrimination. It was an open secret how often he’d make racist comments. Stern was important but he made a few mistakes worth mentioning.
Adam Silver for me.
I believe during Stern’s run we’ve had 7 different championship teams in the 30 plus years. Adam Silver’s era has overseen 6 different championship in the last 6 years alone.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence. There’s much more parity in the league. As a fan that’s important to me. I don’t give a damn about Laker-Celtic finals for the history. I want the 2 best teams going at it.
How is that a win?
He resorted to a stupid gimmick to get players who make 50 million dollars a year to play basketball..... To incentivize them to play basketball
Also if the 7 seed could have 20 more wins than the 8 seed but with the playin the 8 seed could beat them one time and the 8 seed would jump them only based on that
Lol, this post is is a jerking off session to Stern. Some redditors cant stand Silver as an answer.
Totally agree that Play Ins and IST were good additions at the current game. I just wished he can make the ASG better moving forward.
Stern made the game international and Stern played a key roll on players today getting the money they are earning by exposing the game to a larger audience
Stern by far, he made basketball the defacto #2 most popular sport in the world, just below football. He' corrupt as hell though but there's no denying current basketball popularity is partially thanks to him.
Stern, he just was power tripping too much at the end, but he was the best. Silver doesn’t seem to have a grip on the league like stern use to. People feared stern, didn’t matter if you were a star or not, he can get ppl in line for the benefit of the league. Silver babies these players and I think he’s just not strict enough.
Silver also tried to bring in more offence and it backfired and now they’re trying to back track. He got a made league and he’s trying to do shit that doesn’t need to be done.
The list of best North American sports commissioners of all time. He was absolutely responsible for the stabilization of the sport in the late 70s with Larry O’Brian and the sports growth post Jordan.
I’d argue he’s the greatest commissioner in sports history. The only commissioner I’d say is close is Pete Rozelle. He did for the NFL what David Stern did for the NBA
This list is pretty damn short I think only 3 names are on it. Counting Rozelle, Kenesaw Mountain Landis was critical in restoring trust in the MLB after the Black Sox scandal.
Definitely Stern. Took it from the Cocaine/Tape Delay through MJ and what the league is today. Adam Silver has no backbone and let's players walk all over him.
When David Stern took over the NBA they were showing finals games on fucking tape delay..
David Stern is a top 2 alk time American sports commissioner.
My thing with silver is he started marketing the nba to teenagers in the early 2010’s since the nfl dominates the 25-35 crowd and baseball fans skew older as well.
But the byproduct is now the game just isn’t for me anymore. The way they promote on social media, the way they push that it’s a “stars” league, the fact that I don’t give two shits about what clothes some 21 year old is wearing or what shoes they’re sporting just makes me feel like I’m watching a Disney channel show.
If you don’t care about the nba players and just care about teams (for example, I’m a blazers fan since I’m from Portland) the game just isn’t showcased for you. I mean, look at how the media talks about the nba. Silver was right when he mentioned how he wants commentators to talk more about the actual strategy rather than just stupid storylines, because people in their 30’s and older just do not care about if victor wembanyama is getting disrespected or whatever. The reason they stick with storylines is because they’re marketing to a base that’s too young to either care or understand the strategy they’re talking about, so they just say stupid shit that 13 year olds can understand.
Rant over
I don't like the amount of commercialization Silver has brought in.
- KIA NBA MVP
- The Finals: Presented by YouTube TV
- Ads on the jerseys
It cheapens the game. So. I gotta go with Stern
Stern.
I don’t think Silver (along with owners) can make the tough calls to grow the game. If most casual fans see the regular season as meaningless, the only solutions are less regular season games or have less teams make the playoffs.
Based on scheduling, you can make it so that the national tv revenue isn’t much impacted.
You also have the issue of top players demanding trades to larger markets or signing short term contracts with player options.
The salary cap and salaries could be structured to benefit players that stay on the same team for 5-7+ years
Stern turned a foundering league into a goldmine with massive cultural relevance.
Silver gave us the in season tournament with shitty clown courts that make it harder to see what’s happening.
I dont think they can be compared yet. Stern has like 30+ years of experience, and Silver is still new to the job. I would say Silver is doing a phenomenal job so far.
Stern is possibly the worst commissioner in the modern era. Multiple fraudulent championships caused by multiple corrupt refs who were actively influencing playoff games. For that reason alone he's trash
Stern, not even a close argument. Look what he did to the game. He grew it into an international phenomenon. Silver is just a spineless hack who lets the players run rampant.
I agree TBH. Everything felt so much bigger with Stern but I think part of that is cus of the players he was commissioner over. Bro was commissioner over Magic, Larry, MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Lebron. It felt huge
stern changed the game forever, driving the league into a fun, commercialised sport and taking it out of the worst time in league history. i think it’s him
This.
Stern and it’s not even close. Stern was one of the best commissioners in sports. He was the one that helped institute the salary cap, which was before he was even commissioner and also started the lottery. Dude was a legend.
He also was an instrumental reason the NBA is still in Sacramento. He was always looking out for the little guys -
Also the reason they aren’t still in Seattle
seattle wouldnt build a new arena for more seating by the time they did the sonics were already becoming the thunder
Stern. He inherited a league that wasn’t in a great place and turned it into an international phenomenon. The NBA FINALS were broadcast on tape delay before Stern to give you an idea of what it was like.
Overall? Stern. Silver isn't strict enough. But Stern also was likely corrupt, and likely rigged draft lotteries so that certain teams got to pick first overall. Derrick Rose is certainly a good example of that. However, silver is just such a push over that I almost don't care enough
He was definitely dirty, the ewing draft, burying the ref fixing games and smaller things here and there. His only goal was to grow the league and he did a great job regardless of the shady stuff
Still can’t believe Patrick Beverly only got 4 games for throwing a ball at a Pacers fan
Twice lol
Literally assaulted a fan lol and she wasn’t even doing anything, he hit the wrong person
What evidence is there for Derrick Rose draft being rigged?
I bet you are one of those guys who doesn't even believe the world is flat and that that Hitler didn't escape to Argentina.
It’s not like Rose was the clear number one that season a little before the draft. He wasn’t a once in a generation guy like LeBron. He made a ton of noise that year at Memphis, but Michael Beasley was regarded as a top pick by many that season.
1. Just so happens Cleveland get #1 pick for hometown kid Lebron 2. Just so happens Bulls get #1 pick for hometown kid Drose 3. Just so happens Pelicans get Zion whenever rumors been going on a for Years AD to LA. 4. Just so happens spurs get #1 pick for Wemby, yeah they were bad but spurs with pop was best landing spot for wemby. Rockets or pistons should’ve got the #1 pick.
None of that is actual evidence.
Are you too dumb to put patterns together? Motherfuckers want proof of corruption right in their face in the public eye. Yeah bro sometimes you gotta connect the dots and use a lil bit of that brain.
Its not putting patterns together as much as it is just cherry picking what data fits a chosen narrative and disregarding everything else.
Im glad you put complete faith into the lottery system
I don't. but I put more faith on chance and the lottery system being legit than I do on spinning together a full out conspiracy of the league regularly tampering in the draft year after year based on zero actual proof.
I don’t think they tamper it every year but with the prospects that are hyped up to be great, yeah I do. The league has been known for doing sketchy stuff and money is everything . Bringing Chicago back to relevance post Jordan via a hometown hero and bringing the best player since Jordan to his hometown is great marketing for the league.
You put faith in a random chance lottery always ending up exactly where the narrative needs it to be?
In the past ten years its been Atlanta(9th worst record) San Antonio(2nd worst) Orlando(2nd worst) Detroit(2nd worst) Minnesota(3rd worst) New Orleans(7th worst) Phoenix(worst) Brooklyn(worst) Philly(worst) Minnesota(worst) 7 out of 10 years it was one of the 2 teams with the worst record, with a 3rd, 7th and 9th as well. That seems pretty in line with expected random results. but I would love to hear your theory how Atlanta, Orlando, Detroit and Minnesota as the winners four of the past five years were the teams that happen to be the exact fit that the narrative needs.
The hilarity of calling someone else dumb while also posting this drivel. Zero self awareness.
Yeah man guess its pure coincidence that the Bulls with a 1% shot got the #1 pick to land their hometown hero. Now thats a conspiracy theory.
Coincidence does not equal proof. It's really not that hard homie.
I got some ocean front property to sell you in Arizona if you believe Drose & Bron going to their hometowns with the #1 pick was coincidence.
[See you down in Arizona Bay](https://youtu.be/rHcmnowjfrQ?si=GgFaYnpljYsKRIhI)
The only time a team with a 1% chance has won the lottery. Seems like the laws of probability are working just fine here bud
https://preview.redd.it/yav080gr4k8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e53afca07b6e0c2d9d571dafa3ce4a0f3470ea1
Amare and Diaw suspensions seemed extremely harsh then and now. Something was up
I mean, Silver knows a thing or two about rigging draft lotteries. Just look at Wemby.
I always heard he rigged it so that Ewing got over here so the NBA would start getting overseas attention
Wembanyama going to spurs with pop was clearly rigged.
They were tied for the second worst record, not exactly outrageous that they got him.
Meanwhile, the team with the worst record picked 5th. Two years in a row.
Unfortunate but not exactly remarkable.
Tell me you don’t understand probability without telling me that you don’t under probability.
Good. Tanking shouldn’t be an effective strategy to rebuild a roster
You know the odds of that happening is about 25% right? Slightly unlucky but not exactly improbable.
The top pick is rarely the best player in the draft anyways
The bulls had a 1% chance of getting Rose
So you're saying there's a chance....
Agreed stern had his hand in the envelope jar. After all wemby was drafted 3 years after stern died so you can tell this was how corrupt he was.
The person you’re responding to is using what they said as an argument against Silver, not Stern. Stern’s alleged rigging was brought up, so he’s alleging that Silver did the exact same thing. He isn’t saying that Stern rigged for the Spurs from the grave if that’s what you’re implying
No it was not, that stupid knicks conspiracy theory with Patrick Ewing never happened either.
Even accounting for that, Stern by far. Players were afraid of pissing off Stern, no one is afraid of Silver.
I wonder would the players of today be scared of Stern. The power dynamic has shifted dramatically in the Silver era.
I dont think Stern wouldve allowed the dynamic to shift so drastically.
He would have still been a strong commissioner but changes in public perception and the rise of social media made it inevitable.
Why is it good for players to be scared of the commissioner
I think the balance has shifted. Players are now causally sitting games because they feel like it. Players are taking 50% of the revenue as well, which I’m all for but don’t sit games. Thankfully the 65 game rule was announced. It forces stars to play.
Until we stop measuring legacies based off of performance in the playoffs we're not going to stop people resting. You know who played damn near every regular season game at an MVP level but was often gassed in the Playoffs, James Harden. Aint no way people who don't love the game like him will risk the bag and their legacy to play every game.
You know who else played nearly every single regular season game and then didn't get gassed and still delivered in the playoffs? Just among the SG's. MJ and Kobe. Both guys raised their game in the playoffs while still playing every regular season game where they weren't legitimately injured (and many times, particularly in Kobe's case, even when he was). Harden not resting in the regular season is a good thing but let's not blame him not resting for a lack of playoff achievements.
I understand your point but the pace of the game was drastically slower when those guys played. And wings weren't basically mobile bigs. We all know Jimmy Buckets takes the regular season off and is lauded for it. I can't think of many stars that play 38+ mins without rests in today's league bc one regular season game isn't worth that much for winning a championship or legacy.
In MJ's time yes but I'm 100% sure that Kobe expanded significantly more effort than Harden in both the RS and the playoffs. His game was predicated on off ball movement to a greater extent than Harden's was and he also didn't use picks as much as Harden did to get to his spots when he was the ball handler. I think the issue with Butler is the expectations. Harden is considered a top 5 SG ever so he obviously will have more expectations to deliver in both the RS and the playoffs. Butler isn't really in the SF all time rankings and is primarily just considered an ATG playoff riser. I do believe that Butler shouldn't receive credit for taking the RS off though.
A lot of times it’s the teams that are forcing guys to sit to keep them fresh through the season.
Because the league is full of entitled sensitive divas now?
You can say this about pretty much any era
Maybe he’s a billionaire team owner lol
Yes. They are currently only afraid of pissing off LeBron.
So?
Because LeBron isn’t the authority over the league. It undermines Silver.
Who cares? Commish is just a mouthpiece for billionaire owners. Fuck the commissioner and his “authority”
Show us on the doll where the commissioner touched you lol It’s a business sugartits. Stop being such a bag girl rebel. You sound like you are angry at the NBA lol.
I don’t actually care about the commissioner or the owners. It’s just weird you’re so concerned about his authority being undermined.
Get sterns dick outa your mouth god damn
Oh whoooooa! Hey everyone this guy made a homophobic comment on the internet! Did you think of that on your own? No way. That is way too cutting edge to be something you came up with all by yourself. If you did you’ll be goddamn famous my boy. Who would have ever thought to combine belittling homosexuals with the information superhighway? I’ll tell you what, you might have just started a new trend. So cool. I bet people tell you how cool you are all the time.
Silver somehow seems less serious when he's trying to be serious. Maybe he's a good negotiator, Idk.
Stern is miles better despite his many flaws. Took the league from 3rd in America and full of drunks/cokeheads to a global powerhouse & cultural trendsetter Silver took over in 2014 and product quality / ratings have been on a continuous downward trend since 2016 (with the exception of 2019).
Really that was Stern who made the NBA a global powerhouse? I thought it was Bird/Magic & Michael Jordan who did that Are you Sure Adam silver made ratings dip after 2016? Because in the summer of 2016 KD joined the warriors and ruined the competitive balance of the NBA after maybe the best playoff/finals in 20+ years. players/teams decide ratings not commissioners To me players respect Silver in a way they didn't respect Stern and Silver has mentioned Players mental health while Stern only cared about their perceived image as "thugs".
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It doesn’t help that baseball in general is not all that fun to watch for the average person. I love going to games when I can but I never turn a game on tv save for a few playoff and world series games
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You’re right. Stern did a fantastic job. Basketball does also benefit from how one individual can impact the game far more than almost any other sport. Soccer I think should be far more popular in the states for that reason but nobody has really tried. The best players absolutely dominate the games. I don’t find it boring to watch at all. Maybe with the MLB, they just became stagnant for so long relying solely on being Americas Pastime instead of adapting as time went on. The new rules have helped a little. However, without a salary cap and more competitive balance I’m afraid it will never really get better.
Who do you think promoted and turned mj into the “goat” it wasn’t just his play. Stern had a big hand in making mj the goat through his partners in the media.He changed rules to benefit mj, protected him from any controversy like all the gambling mj use to do, ppl were linking him to mafias and betting on his own games, there are mafias guys from the 90s saying how much money mj use to lose. Stories got buried before they even took off cause of stern. How do u think the cover up for the refs scandal happened, stern ran shit like a mafia boss but he did it to protect the league and pumped guys to sell the league. He’s one of the main guys to save the league too, he was great at PR and marketing.
Lmao sir MJ is the goat because of his play but if you want to give credit for building a narrative it goes to Nike, not Stern Nike made MJ the first athlete to ever have his own signature shoe line and promoted him heavily. Then he comes out and is not only the best rookie we've ever seen, but someone so graceful even non basketball fans knew watching him was special... Sterns NBA banned MJ's shoe which Nike paid the fines for. So yeah Spike Lee did more to promote Jordan the Stern. Additionally What rule did Stern he change to favor Jordan? Seriously hand checking was still in place, the pistons beat the fuck out of him for years. Also he didn't protect Jordan from anything considering MJ gambling controversies are well known, have you seen the last dance? Print media was even speculating it may have gotten his father killed I'm not saying Stern does nothing I'm saying what he does ultimately doesn't matter for the ratings. It comes down to the players/teams being exciting and the commissioner has Zero to do with that.
Exactly. I’m not saying Adam Silver doesn’t think this way too behind closed doors, but David Stern during his tenure in the 2000s implemented a lot of regulations that were obviously racially motivated. If you think they weren’t, you’re choosing to ignore what’s right in your face. Since Silver came into the role many of those regulations disappeared to my knowledge.
Provide more than 1 example. This should be easy since there's "a lot", according to you. My guess is you'll bring up the dress code and literally nothing else. Once you prove me right, I'll show you why you're wrong.
You are literally arguing semantics. “Actually he only made ONE racist ass change!” as if that somehow makes it better. Let’s totally ignore how this “one” change was implemented in a very broad and interpretive manner as well.
First off, you're very fucking stupid. Secondly, I like how you immediately abandoned your lie. I thought there were many examples? What happened to that? Are you full of shit or not? Are you going to address this? I bet you won't because you're a loser who deliberately shares false information like a clown. "Semantics" lolololol so one example is equal to many examples? You think it's the exact same thing? Explain to me how the dress code policy was racist and then explain to me the repercussions of that policy. I bet you won't do this either because you're a dipshit who assumed nobody would call you out on your obvious bullshit.
Scared him off gahdamn
May not be fair, but Silver was the first commish to bring in jersey ads, so I’d take Stern.
The over monetization of the game is a huge turnoff, and we're still due for a Tim Donaghy type of gambling scandal
I don't mind the jersey ads that much, a small patch isn't a big deal, at least it's not like soccer jerseys. I think the embrace of sports gambling by the league is a bigger deal. Gambling ads are omnipresent and when you've got big money riding on outcomes it casts doubt on refs and outcomes. You've got Gobert, Jamal Murray and Luka making money sign gestures at the refs this playoffs, looks bad. There's already enough doubt on refs competence, a long history of past questionable calls, the Tim Donaghy gambling scandal and Scott Foster the extender who holds grudges against players.
But it’s a slippery slope, I guarantee the ads will get bigger or there will be more ads within the next 20 years. It’ll go to looking like WNBA jerseys and then soccer
Soccer doesn't have commercials like the NBA. It's totally worth it and not a fair analogy in my opinion.
You do know that the term “slippery slope” is actually coined from the “slippery slope fallacy” right?
I did. But I think this is a prime example of it not being a fallacy, because every CBA I guarantee more ads on jerseys will be discussed, and both players and executives will never give up the leverage of extra money and will always have this as an option to increase revenue in the short term.
biggest positive from silver to me is league parity. Best teams are winning and any franchise can be the best team.
Whys that not fair?
At first I thought Silver. But now I'd rather have Stern. Wouldn't put up with player load management nonsense among other things.
David Stern was, by all accounts, a sleazy wannabe greaseball goomba. For that reason I select David Stern.
That's a pretty nice compliment you've given him. Stern was the greaseball the NBA needed at the time.
You can’t compare commissioners like you do players. Unless they’re obscenely misguided, better or worse is really tough to measure. That being said, Stern’s North Star and passion was making basketball an international sport. Everything he did was driven by that, and he succeeded. It’s unfortunate he didn’t get to see the NBA of today because it’s just now, truly coming becoming a reality. Now that it’s become such a global player, I feel Silver is doing a really good job of optimizing and modernizing basketball and I don’t Stern would’ve been as creative or exploratory as Silver is. It’s been a really good transition with both commissioner’s strengths being perfectly timed/fitting for their eras.
Stern without question. Silver let’s players walk all over him and has made some terrible decisions along the way.
David Stern. He was instrumental in worldwide growth of the game. Basketball wouldn't be what it is today without him. Adam Silver has seemed like a caretaker for most of his time in the job. He's starting to put his own stamp on the league with the PiT and IST, both of which I'm iffy on (for different reasons), but he seems like a good negotiator considering the new media rights deals. The league's gonna expand. I like how they made their mid-season rule-implementation changes to address how unwatchable the game was becoming (but they're the ones who made it that way in the first place). Silver's not terrible, he just comes off as weak.
Stern had better writers. Some of the story lines under Silver are just so weak and uninteresting.
Stern>>> Silver is a joke, he’s not remotely respected by the players he’s money hungry and says a lot of stuff to appease fans but the changes he claims will happen don’t come to fruition. It’s all about getting more viewership instead of making a product worth viewing. The league is beyond soft with more divas than players. The refs run a muck every single game. Foul baiting is still a thing even though he said he’d change it. In season tournament has damaged the payoffs because guys are getting hurt to win a tournament the fans don’t want. This is all without talking about the biggest issue: SPORTS BETTING. It has destroyed the competitive nature of the game, it has destroyed discourse, it has destroyed fandom. I’m sick of hearing about people’s parlays, I’m sure players have, I’m sick of “this team is favourite to win” just for that team to lose in a fixed game where vegas wins every time. Look at the finals, Dallas favourite to win game 1,2&3 by vegas and lose all. Then Boston favourite to win game 4 Boston lose in a blatantly fixed game where they lose in the first quarter as the refs give foul after foul to Dallas while Boston get hacked every time down the court. It’s ridiculous. I don’t think Stern was a hero I think he came off a little bigoted at times toward the league talent. But he knew what the fans wanted and he knew how to get the players to buy in to the league, silver is a joke, just look at any interaction he has with the players or even the tnt crew, they all look at him like a cheque and he looks genuinely uncomfortable next to them, that’s their boss and he looks scared of them. Then there’s the absolute joke that the WNBA is while silver goes and claims to genuinely care all while he lets NBA players beat the F out of their partners and play the next game. He’s a pathetic spineless snivelling money hungry snake and the sooner he’s ousted the sooner (if they can replace him with someone with a brain and spine) the league can improve.
You make some really great points, but I wish you used paragraphs.
My bad (edited original comment into paragraphs)
Everyone in here on their knees for David Stern as if he’s not the guy who covered up the extent of the ref gambling scandal when Donaghy was caught by the FBI fixing games, you have to laugh, not even getting to Stern fixing drafts and taking the NBA out of Seattle, then there’s the Lakers fans who still think Kobe would have another ring if Stern didn’t bow to the complaints of owners like Mark Cuban and Jordan who said the Chris Paul trade was unfair You guys can say Stern made the league more popular without pretending he wasn’t also corrupt as fuck
Stern is the GOAT commish. Silver can make a case for 2nd once the league expands again, but stern was their for the biggest period of growth for the league
Yeah the league literally boomed under Stern. He was there with Magic and Bird, to Jordan, to Kobe and Shaq, to Lebron. He witness all of it
Silver is the only commissioner that actually listens to what fans want, unfortunately I think over time that’s hurt the quality of the league, but players are definitely happier
Can’t feed your kids candy every day
Stern is over rated and a cheat. Donaghy put a massive asterisk next to his name. He tampered with games for profit. The players were great regardless of him.
Uh for the advancement of the NBA? Adam Silver by farrrrrr imo.
Silver. Silver ushered in some of the biggest TV deals ever. The NBA has a thriving social media presence. He skillfully led the NBA through covid 19. He’s also ushering the NBA through the sports gambling minefield. Stern imposed a dress code. He also ignored Donald Stirling until it was too late. Stirling lost several lawsuits for racial discrimination. It was an open secret how often he’d make racist comments. Stern was important but he made a few mistakes worth mentioning.
Adam Silver for me. I believe during Stern’s run we’ve had 7 different championship teams in the 30 plus years. Adam Silver’s era has overseen 6 different championship in the last 6 years alone. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. There’s much more parity in the league. As a fan that’s important to me. I don’t give a damn about Laker-Celtic finals for the history. I want the 2 best teams going at it.
Silver added Play Ins and In Season Tournament. Two big Ws. I'm taking silver
How is that a win? He resorted to a stupid gimmick to get players who make 50 million dollars a year to play basketball..... To incentivize them to play basketball Also if the 7 seed could have 20 more wins than the 8 seed but with the playin the 8 seed could beat them one time and the 8 seed would jump them only based on that
it easily is a HUGE w for me if u don't agree that's cool
Lol, this post is is a jerking off session to Stern. Some redditors cant stand Silver as an answer. Totally agree that Play Ins and IST were good additions at the current game. I just wished he can make the ASG better moving forward.
Stern made the game international and Stern played a key roll on players today getting the money they are earning by exposing the game to a larger audience
Stern by far, he made basketball the defacto #2 most popular sport in the world, just below football. He' corrupt as hell though but there's no denying current basketball popularity is partially thanks to him.
It’s Stern
Stern, my a mole
At least stern didn't force a franchise to hire an idiot who traded away anything of value and sunk them with huge contracts for bad players
Stern, he just was power tripping too much at the end, but he was the best. Silver doesn’t seem to have a grip on the league like stern use to. People feared stern, didn’t matter if you were a star or not, he can get ppl in line for the benefit of the league. Silver babies these players and I think he’s just not strict enough. Silver also tried to bring in more offence and it backfired and now they’re trying to back track. He got a made league and he’s trying to do shit that doesn’t need to be done.
Stern by a long shot. Silver softer than baby shit. Stern made ya think he’d take you out back and break your legs if you fucked up
Stern. Silver is a pushover
Stern saved the league and began promoting players like before
Stern helped change the game but I think Silver is more innovative.
The list of best North American sports commissioners of all time. He was absolutely responsible for the stabilization of the sport in the late 70s with Larry O’Brian and the sports growth post Jordan.
I’d argue he’s the greatest commissioner in sports history. The only commissioner I’d say is close is Pete Rozelle. He did for the NFL what David Stern did for the NBA
This list is pretty damn short I think only 3 names are on it. Counting Rozelle, Kenesaw Mountain Landis was critical in restoring trust in the MLB after the Black Sox scandal.
Say what you will about Stern (and there is a LOT you can say), but the NBA would not exist on a global scale as it does today if it wasn’t for him.
Stern made pro basketball actually marketable for the first time ever. Literally made the NBA viable. Him by default.
Definitely Stern. Took it from the Cocaine/Tape Delay through MJ and what the league is today. Adam Silver has no backbone and let's players walk all over him.
This is like asking: "Who's better? Patrick Mahomes or Kenny Pickett?"
stern
When David Stern took over the NBA they were showing finals games on fucking tape delay.. David Stern is a top 2 alk time American sports commissioner.
Well. One of them is the vampire Nosforatu. And the other is David Stern.
Fuck both of them
David Stern might be the best commissioner across any major North American sport.
Pete Rozelle the only one that comes close
My thing with silver is he started marketing the nba to teenagers in the early 2010’s since the nfl dominates the 25-35 crowd and baseball fans skew older as well. But the byproduct is now the game just isn’t for me anymore. The way they promote on social media, the way they push that it’s a “stars” league, the fact that I don’t give two shits about what clothes some 21 year old is wearing or what shoes they’re sporting just makes me feel like I’m watching a Disney channel show. If you don’t care about the nba players and just care about teams (for example, I’m a blazers fan since I’m from Portland) the game just isn’t showcased for you. I mean, look at how the media talks about the nba. Silver was right when he mentioned how he wants commentators to talk more about the actual strategy rather than just stupid storylines, because people in their 30’s and older just do not care about if victor wembanyama is getting disrespected or whatever. The reason they stick with storylines is because they’re marketing to a base that’s too young to either care or understand the strategy they’re talking about, so they just say stupid shit that 13 year olds can understand. Rant over
I don't like the amount of commercialization Silver has brought in. - KIA NBA MVP - The Finals: Presented by YouTube TV - Ads on the jerseys It cheapens the game. So. I gotta go with Stern
Adam Silver is a joke
Silver has been terrible for the league. He lets the players dominate him.
Stern. I don’t think Silver (along with owners) can make the tough calls to grow the game. If most casual fans see the regular season as meaningless, the only solutions are less regular season games or have less teams make the playoffs. Based on scheduling, you can make it so that the national tv revenue isn’t much impacted. You also have the issue of top players demanding trades to larger markets or signing short term contracts with player options. The salary cap and salaries could be structured to benefit players that stay on the same team for 5-7+ years
David Stern is the greatest commissioner/boss of any sports league of all time.
The commissioner needs to be the bad guy and stern was the bad guy. Silver is a pushover that no one takes even remotely seriously
Stern was more stern
Silver looks like if uncle fester fucked the crypt keeper ….his loyalty is to china
Stern easily. Like comparing Michael Jordan to Pervis Ellison
Adam Silver, by far. Stern was out of touch and way too strict.
Stern turned a foundering league into a goldmine with massive cultural relevance. Silver gave us the in season tournament with shitty clown courts that make it harder to see what’s happening.
Silver ruined the league
I dont think they can be compared yet. Stern has like 30+ years of experience, and Silver is still new to the job. I would say Silver is doing a phenomenal job so far.
Stern is possibly the worst commissioner in the modern era. Multiple fraudulent championships caused by multiple corrupt refs who were actively influencing playoff games. For that reason alone he's trash
Stern, not even a close argument. Look what he did to the game. He grew it into an international phenomenon. Silver is just a spineless hack who lets the players run rampant.
Adam silver is the worst commissioner in pro sports. The all star game and finals are yawners now.
I agree TBH. Everything felt so much bigger with Stern but I think part of that is cus of the players he was commissioner over. Bro was commissioner over Magic, Larry, MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Lebron. It felt huge