Laimbeer was dirtier, but he did it in peoples face, and was ready to throw hands. Laimbeer accepted his existence as enforcer and heel.
Green is a cheap shot artist that goes for the b\*lls and then tries to pretend he didn't do anything wrong. Green tries to pretend he's a good guy when he's really human trash on the court.
100%. Bill was no question a dirtier player, but he owned it and was ready to throw hands for it everytime.
Draymond on the other hand, plays the victim and is fake tough. He is mentally weak so when things stop going the Warriors way, he throws a tantrum and decides to play dirty. Sometimes it's kicking people in the nuts, sometimes it's stomping on their ankles. Fuck Draymond.
Laimbeer played aggressively when the league was aggressive. He was a bit more aggressive than others, but he wasn’t alone. His team was just known for having a few tough players.
Draymond is an anomaly because he’s cheap shotting people in today’s league. You can’t taunt or do anything in today’s game. He’s dirtier relative to the mean.
This isn’t really true though. Bill often claimed he was the victim after instigating. And that piece of shit never showed an ounce of remorse for anything he did. There’s a reason none of his peers have any respect for him. It wasn’t just about being tough. He wanted to hurt guys. He used to stick his foot under shooter's feet all the time, just so they'd twist an ankle. The guy broke Isiah's rib during practice. I don't buy this idea that Bill was upfront about his dirty play; he was a cheapshot artist and a coward. He had some fake tough guy in him like Draymond too. Bully types like that always do.
I suspect most of the people saying this stuff never actually watched Bill play. The guy was human garbage. Any time you played the Pistons you had to worry about Bill hurting one of your guys. Parish used to roll his ankle against Detroit all the time because Bill was always sticking his foot in Parish’s landing zone.
Lets put it this way: Parish was TOTALLY RIGHT to judo chop Lambier HARD that one time. AND Im not someone who thinks almost any such chop in an NBA context is justified.
This.
Some weirdos in this thread are acting like Laimbeer is being treated like a good guy. He was an ass, just not as much of an ass as Draymond. Green fancies himself a tough guy, but he's actually a bitch. Laimbeer would directly get into a scuffle and not back down from the chaos he created. Mahorn could clean anything up (as could most of the Pistons.)
Seconded. I wouldn’t even say Bill was dirtier. He was more *violent*, sure - but with Bill you knew what you were getting. He never pretended to be anything other than what he was: a rebounding workhorse who was going to make anyone posting up on him regret it. Also, I don’t recall Bill ever punching his *own* teammates (I stand to be corrected on that point, however).
Draymond wants to pretend he’s a baller but really just wants to hurt people. Can’t accept when he’s beat and resorts to underhanded tactics.
I was watching Idiocracy the other day and the part where Frito is watching “Ow My Balls”, the show credits come up and the Head Writer is credited as D. Ray Mon.
From what I recall it was a doc/series on the bad boys vs Celtics series and battles. Larry said his back was destroyed by the punishment he got from the pistons front line, Lambier. His back issues ended up being the issue his career was shortened, and Larry said it was due to the injuries he sustained, IIRC.
Larry said it in a doc about the pistons. The pave a driveway thing is made up. He did pave a driveway and mow his moms grass but that’s not what did his back in according to Larry
yeah i’d say Draymond is WAY more outta line in todays game than Laimbeer was back then.
What do you think would’ve happened in 1989 if draymond put an opposing player in a fuckin chokehold?
he would been beat to a pulp on the court
Tbh I feel like its semantics. Punching your teammate in the face, choking someone, putting you’re entire 230 lb 6 6” frame on someones chest cavity as you stomp on it. Habitual nut kicking. Hard to top.
Nah, I think you just compare each to the mean. The average player today isn’t allowed to do anything even mildly rude. The league actually changed the rules following the bad boys because the entire league was aggressive. What a lot of people here might not realize is that Laimbeer was barely the most aggressive player on his own team. Mahorn and Rodman were very physical players.
“Good, now I won’t have to worry about him getting on the bus and saying ‘Hi Larry,’ and me having to say ‘Fuck you, Bill’”
-Larry Bird after being told Bill Laimbeer did not make the 1986 All-Star Team
It was such an open thing that in 1990 there was even a video game cartridge called “Bill Laimbeer’s Combat Basketball” for Super Nintendo.
Making him literally the poster boy for aggressive play.
I think Draymond technically dirtier because Bill was way more straightforward with it. Doing it more behind people's backs and being a little cheaper about it is what makes Draymond the dirtier one imo. That of course leans in to the era difference but also in Bill's era you would face retaliation. Draymond seems to only target players he knows wont retaliate, and in an era where retaliation is more forbidden. So again I have to lean in to Draymond being the dirtier one.
Exactly. Green has to try and hide it. Today's players rarely go back at Green too (not because they're afraid of him, but because they don't want to lose a game & their salary for it.) Laimbeer didn't have to worry about this and expected people to come after him.
If draymond played in that era, he’d be the dirtiest player of all time. Dude has one of the most punchable faces in the world. Donkey from shriek face
Everyone wants ti adjust for era until in comes to being a dirty player. If you compare Draymond’s level of dirtiness to this era and compare Laimbeer’s dirtiness to that era, Draymond comes out on top.
/s
"The game takes place in the year 2031. Bill Laimbeer has become commissioner of a basketball league, fired the referees and created a style of play without rules. There are no fouls and use of weapons is perfectly legal."
I smell a movie tie-in. "The year is 2031. The judicial system has been eradicated. Disputes are now resolved in a different court...The Combat Basketball Court! Starring Bill Laimbeer as Judge Dredd."
Laimbeer is like a guy who kicks someone in the nuts during a UFC fight. Dirty, but they were already fighting.
Draymond is like a guy who kicks someone in the nuts at a house party. He then tells everyone he’s learning to be a better man before doing it again at the next party. We were just drinking some beer dude wtf is wrong with you.
That's why Bill was dirtier but less of a bitch. Consequences were coming for his dirt.
Dray plays just as dirty and expects to not get punched in the face, fined, suspended or kicked out of the league.
That's why Green goes after Euros (Sabonis, Gobert, Nurkic, Bertans) and players known for *not fighting* (Harden, Beal, Mitchell, LeBron, Chriss, AD.) That's not to say these players are "soft" but instead professional. They come to play pro hoop not WWE. Whereas players that have protected themselves in the past (Anthony, Kawhi, Gordon, Brooks, Rondo, Isaiah Stewart, Tristan Thompson) Green backs off from. That is the log from [this compilation video](https://youtu.be/baNoY_ud7Tk?si=7Tv2lOKJXI2Z20KB). The pattern is clear. Green only goes after guys he doesn't think will come back at him and the NBA protects him. Green is king bitch.
Most people have it right that Laimbeer was much rougher than Green but more open about it.
I will add that I don’t remember Laimbeer ever giving someone a nut shot. I could be wrong, but as much as it pains me to say it, I think even Laimbeer had his limits
This is a false narrative. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi9kx7yvsm8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi9kx7yvsm8)
"I didn't do a thing", "I was just trying to break his fall"
Laimbeer was a liar
It’s easy for everyone to be in the comments saying Dray is dirty, Bill was a good player just tough blah blah blah. You’d be singing a different tune if you were watching Laimbeer throw elbows at your whole team and not get called for shit.
Having watched both players at their primes at the time, it is surprising some just say Laimbeer.
Not that simple.
Laimbeer was extremely dirty and physical, so on an absolute basis: Laimbeer. That was because the league was much more physical.
Now Green is MUCH worse relatively to his peers/league standards, unless it was by coincidence that he stomped on Sabonis and kicked players in the groin multiple times. Physical play and taking players out is much less common.
Laimbeer would foul out in the first quarter now.
Who would I rather play in my prime?
80s rules, neither. That was rough!
2020 rules, either but Green would be worse as he might step on your head as a non basketball play then feign innocence. Laimbeer was dirty but more obvious.
I think you’re really underrating/misremembering how dirty Laimbeer was every single play.
Laimbeer and Mahorn were called Mcfilthy and Mcnasty for a reason
(Side note McNasty is actually kind of a sick nickname)
I understand what you’re saying but I can’t even consider Green in this competition. Relative to anyone ever Lambeer was fouling people with zero regard for anyone’s safety every opportunity he could find. Zero regard for injury or image.
It’s laughable to even compare the two I don’t care what the era differences are if Sabonis grabbed Lambeer’s leg like he did Draymond he’s leaving the arena on a stretcher/in an ambulance not just with a couple bruises.
kermit washington? if we talking about damage. “suffered a fractured skull, broken jaw, broken nose, other facial injuries and leakage of spinal fluid”
was close to dying only minutes away. kareem said it sounded like a melon shattering on concrete which reporters said they heard the same in the press box
Did you watch both eras at the time live? Videos now do not do it justice. It was a different world.
If Sabonis instigated with Laimbeer, it would be a brawl. That is my point. 1. Let's agree that the eras are not comparable. 2. Green is dirtier than Laimbeer. Laimbeer was more physical, but he would openly attack. Green is sly!
Laimbeer was one of the villains in his era (it was the Detroit bad boys, not the Laimbeers). Green is THE villain of his era.
Lambier was nasty work and is the right answer. But I can only imagine what Draymond would have done in that era.
I guess the counterpoint to that is that in 80's, someone would have fucked Draymond up for the shit he pulls.
Laimbeer was honest about who he was on the court. Green pretends to lose all control of his body and "accidentally" hit people and step on them. Then goes on a podcast and claims he's a good guy.
Green is dirty but soft, Laimbeer was dirty as f but much tougher mentally.
Draymond would be honest to if that sort of play was acceptable today, which it's not. Saying "Laimbeer is atleast honest" is a dumb point because if he played like he did in today's game, he'd be out of the league immediately. There's a ton of PR in the game that players are now required to play into.
Lambeer
BUT
Lambeer would have grown up watching the Enforcer 70s NBA (fighting was closer to hockey than baseball), there were still enforcers in the league. This was still part of the league.
Draymond is kicking people in the balls and cheap shotting them in the—frankly—all time low physicality 2010s-20s.
Thus draymond stands out far more. Plus 80s dudes would have FUCKED him up for the ball shots. The Pistons, Celts, and Lakers would have all gang stomped him for that shit.
Laimbeer is the godfather of dirty, however what needs to be considered here is that times have changed, in todays game Bill would be suspended whole career, its not that physical anymore and it changes the perspective, having said that, Green is the dirtiest now. I wonder what Greens game would look like in the 80s/90s?
I will qualify this saying I have been a Warriors fan since 2014:
Laimbeer is dirty. CP3 is Dirty.
Draymond is more unstable than dirty. He doesn't have the emotional intelligence to be just "dirty."
A better proxy comparison for Draymond is Artest. Artest would be chill one moment and then boom. Fan gets punched, Harden gets elbowed, camera gets it, etc.
I think this is closer to the truth. However I would add a few things. Laimbeer (to my recollection) did dirty things on the court at least in part because it was good role in the team. So I have no good handle on where the line is between Laimbeer just doing his job and Laimbeer being straight up dirty.
CP3 does dirty things when he absolutely doesn’t have to/doesn’t need to. This is the essence of a dirty player.
I agree, Artest and Draymond are both unstable.
Artest would sometimes try to physically harm other players on the court for no apparent reason. He seemed to have something always simmering under the surface that he contained. He tried to contain it in Detroit and was doing so successfully until that cup of beer came out of nowhere and sent him into a rage. Since his retirement, Artest has let it be known that he did struggle with mental health in his playing days.
Draymond is a dirty player and a bully. He does dirty things on the court, always up to the line and then he crosses it. He bullies the refs constantly. He bullies other players that he thinks can get away with bullying. It’s not a coincidence that he targeted Jordan Poole and Rudy Gobert.
Anyone could get it from Artest if they ran afoul of him. He didn’t care. But he was never looking to start a fight (again to my recollection). Draymond is way more calculated about who he picks on.
I agreed with 95% of everything you said. The bully label I have trouble with, but maybe that is just my definition of a bully differs a bit. To me a bully is unprovoked and targets weaker people.
Draymond going after the refs for instance. The refs have the most power on the court. If they want you gone, they can make it so. They have a strong enough union to do as they wish especially with a player that is not liked by most refs. Refs are by no mean "weaker" in influence.
Even the Draymond vs Jordan Poole example, the context is necessary. It wasn't like he walked up and hit Jordan Poole unprovoked. Jordan instigated with, "You're an expensive backpack for 30". Meaning, Draymond got carried while being over paid. So this doesn't meet the criteria either that I have above.
I particularly don't like Draymond most of the time, especially recently, but I would not classify him as a bully. I truly believe he's a powder keg who doesn't even bother to size up someone or measure the situation when he gets mad. But that is just my opinion and I have no problem with you differing, of course.
-------
Honorable mention of MJ being labeled a bully in last dance:
* When MJ punched Kerr, that might have been bullying initially. Kerr did not instigate and Kerr is weaker physically and in influence. MJ apologized immediately so I consider this to be more a heat of the moment "my bad" thing as it never occurred again.
* When MJ said Horace Grant couldn't have food because his play was sorry, he did it to the biggest guy on the team who might have had the second most influence of any player. He could have stood up for himself and was within his rights to. This one is on the margin, but I'd consider it not bullying because he's a grown ass man and a big one at that.
Just think about this for a second. Draymond is a giant fucking idiot, but how many real injuries has he ever given any player? How many times have players (other than himself) missed games because of his antics?
That should give you a sense for how dirty he is in the grand scheme of things.
Laimbeer for sure was dirtier. But Draymond is a bitch about it. Laimbeer will just straight up push you in the air or elbow you and then be like SO WHAT. Draymond will act like he’s falling down or something and elbow you, then pretend he didn’t mean to.
It’s not even close. Laimbeer was not just dirty he definitely tried to hurt guys. Not just obvious stuff, the guy did sneaky rotten stuff on the court.
He did more dirty things far more often.
Bill Lambeer is dirtier and much more physical. Draymond is just a bitch, going for guys from behind or when they can’t defend themselves (like kicking nuts) and then he lies and says it wasn’t what it actually was. Lambeer was a dirty asshole, Draymond is a fake tough guy coward.
Laimbeer was dirtier but it's hard to say because they didn't care nearly as much as they do now. There were literally people getting knocked out mid game and they just keep going like nothing happened lmao.
Bill Laimbeer was coldcocked by Robert Parish during Game 5 of the CONFERENCE FINALS and the refs didn’t do shit. Not even a foul call. Because everyone in the arena and watching on TV knew that Bill abso-fucking-lutely deserved it and it had been a long time coming.
Draymond is definitely an instigator who plays with an edge, and probably would have fit in well in that era. But Bill wouldn’t be allowed to play in today’s league with the shit he used to pull on the reg.
Bill loved hurting people, and it’s why he has so few contemporaries from his playing days that have anything nice to say about him, aside from a few of his teammates.
Laimbeer was a dude nobody wanted to deal with. Dirty af.
Draymond is like a dumbass little kid with his bullshit. Kicking people in the nuts and swinging your arms around like a dipshit. It’s never felt the same.
Green might be dirtier relative to era. Guys in the 80’s fought all the time, even Bird and Hakeem used to throw down. Half The league was coked up back then.
Bill did most of his dirty work as a tactic, while Green would just rage out and lash out. I’m not saying Bill didn’t get mad but he knew what he was doing, Green just can’t control himself.
In a vacuum Laimbeer
But in the context of the rules when they played it's a lot closer.
Laimbeer will give you a forearm shiver but Draymond will kick you in the nuts and act like he didn't
As much as I want to say Draymond, because he is a giant baby bitch, the answer is Bill Laimbeer. He's a dude so dirty, that a game developer created "Bill Laimbeer's Combat Basketball"
Idk that I would put it all on Bill, the whole team played like that. Draymond is a flat out pussy on the court, what kind of a grown man kicks people in the balls?
Bill laimbeer is a dirtier player overall but he was in a dirty era. Draymond is one of few giving cheap shots in today’s game. Relative to their era draymond is an all time dirty player.
Laimbeer could hit the 3’s and was a lot more entertaining than Draymond. I mean the guy was an asshole but he was hilarious. He was just like a WWF heel at the time. He kind of reminded me of Honkey Tonk Man.
Bill.
Some of it wasn't even personal and other things were VERY PERSONAL.. . All the time, those things got done. With the same vigor. It was a different league in that aspect though too so he wasn't the only one.
Right now, it's just Draymond and maybe Beef Stew, if he's even done anything else outside of that one incident.
In a league full of, "I might chop your ass across the chest if you come in this lane one more time.." players, it wasn't something that stood out as much as anything Dray has been involved in.
I also don't think there's a time where I saw Bill do something and I thought, "Maybe... maybe he didn't mean to do that shit...".
I have with Dray, although that doesn't necessarily doesn't mean he didn't mean to do it. It was just done on the sly or on some 'Well, since it's already gone this far.. let me amp it up.." type time.
Bill's acts were more along of the lines 'Yup.. fucked him right up.. Tell him not to come through here then.." or 'Yeah, he is killing us, let me let him know something.. '. All intentional though..
That's the difference I see between the two.
I also think that Bill's actual acts were worse. Grabbing people outta the air and slamming 'em down.. Punches.. etc.
Not even CLOSE!!! Laimbeer! Dray is more of a whiny, big-mouth, bully who’s never even had to show anyone he can throw! Crying to refs. As someone born and raised in Boston I grew up watchin’ those classic NBA Playoff runs from like 84-on. It was SO much different. There would literally be games with only like 3 3-pointers attempted. It was all drop it down, bang-bang-bang the rim, or kick it out for a shot. EVERYONE played EVERY game. I remember McHale played the entire ‘87 playoff run (lost to LA on last second skyhook by Magic) on a legit broken foot! He walks with a noticeable limp to this day from it. It was war. It really was. Guys like Laimbeer, Rodman, Ainge, Rambis, Bird, Horace Grant, Oakley, Ewing, Starks, Kemp, McDaniel. Every team had like 2-3 straight out brawlers. Like a hockey team. Something happens to Mike, Horace, or Levingston would be all over them. Parish would go. It was great. Draymond would’ve fit in. The rules are so strict now. I’d love to call him names, but I can’t. He’s a scrapper.
If you took a poll of 80’s-early 90’s guys and asked who was the dirtiest player they ever played against and John Stockton would be the hands-down winner. -Charles Barkley
Joel embiid is every bit as dirty as draymond the label doesn't stick yhe same because he's a superstar. Draymonds identity is dirty, whiny, malicious, difficult, overly emotional and short tempered. Embiid is all these things as well but no.one wants to hear it. The media doesn't talk about it. Lambier was dirty as fuck in a dirty era. Draymond is dirty but he stands out because it's not acceptable in this era. I dont think he would have nearly the rep if he plaulyed back then. Jordan is revered as an ultra competitor who's personality defects were necessary to be the greatest. He punched 2 teammates we know about. People want draymond kicked out of the league. I'm not justifying his actions I more just wish people opened there eyes to the hypocrisy and how media narratives play in to what the nba wants. Which is NOT a superstar like embiid being seen for what he has shown himself to.be time and time again
Laimbeer was dirtier, but he did it in peoples face, and was ready to throw hands. Laimbeer accepted his existence as enforcer and heel. Green is a cheap shot artist that goes for the b\*lls and then tries to pretend he didn't do anything wrong. Green tries to pretend he's a good guy when he's really human trash on the court.
100%. Bill was no question a dirtier player, but he owned it and was ready to throw hands for it everytime. Draymond on the other hand, plays the victim and is fake tough. He is mentally weak so when things stop going the Warriors way, he throws a tantrum and decides to play dirty. Sometimes it's kicking people in the nuts, sometimes it's stomping on their ankles. Fuck Draymond.
Draymond is def more mental ill
Correct. LAMEBEER was dirtier but Green is more of a bitch.
Green is definitely a bitch.
IMO, this means Green is dirtier. Laimbeer was tougher.
Laimbeer was plenty dirty. He was just less of a bitch
No one is saying Lambier isn’t dirty
Laimbeer bitched and whined constantly lol
He did…. But he didn’t hit anybody in the nuts and then try to act innocent😂
Openly dirtier is still dirtier lol what
Laimbeer played aggressively when the league was aggressive. He was a bit more aggressive than others, but he wasn’t alone. His team was just known for having a few tough players. Draymond is an anomaly because he’s cheap shotting people in today’s league. You can’t taunt or do anything in today’s game. He’s dirtier relative to the mean.
You said it better than I did. This is exactly what I was getting at.
Right 'he sucker punched you but he had the courtesy to fight you afterwards too' head ass lol
This isn’t really true though. Bill often claimed he was the victim after instigating. And that piece of shit never showed an ounce of remorse for anything he did. There’s a reason none of his peers have any respect for him. It wasn’t just about being tough. He wanted to hurt guys. He used to stick his foot under shooter's feet all the time, just so they'd twist an ankle. The guy broke Isiah's rib during practice. I don't buy this idea that Bill was upfront about his dirty play; he was a cheapshot artist and a coward. He had some fake tough guy in him like Draymond too. Bully types like that always do.
Exactly true. This revisionist take of “Bill was just a tough player” is nonsense. His peers all agree he was a dirty, underhanded and malicious guy.
I suspect most of the people saying this stuff never actually watched Bill play. The guy was human garbage. Any time you played the Pistons you had to worry about Bill hurting one of your guys. Parish used to roll his ankle against Detroit all the time because Bill was always sticking his foot in Parish’s landing zone.
Lets put it this way: Parish was TOTALLY RIGHT to judo chop Lambier HARD that one time. AND Im not someone who thinks almost any such chop in an NBA context is justified.
Laimbeer had no problem fighting other players. He just had a problem with winning the fight.
That’s what Rick Mahorn was for
This. Some weirdos in this thread are acting like Laimbeer is being treated like a good guy. He was an ass, just not as much of an ass as Draymond. Green fancies himself a tough guy, but he's actually a bitch. Laimbeer would directly get into a scuffle and not back down from the chaos he created. Mahorn could clean anything up (as could most of the Pistons.)
To be fair him and Bird had epic bouts and wouldn’t even get thrown out of the game let alone suspended
Bars. Couldn’t have put it better. Green should be out the league.
Seconded. I wouldn’t even say Bill was dirtier. He was more *violent*, sure - but with Bill you knew what you were getting. He never pretended to be anything other than what he was: a rebounding workhorse who was going to make anyone posting up on him regret it. Also, I don’t recall Bill ever punching his *own* teammates (I stand to be corrected on that point, however). Draymond wants to pretend he’s a baller but really just wants to hurt people. Can’t accept when he’s beat and resorts to underhanded tactics.
100%
how many times is lambeer known for going after the nutsack?
How many times did Draymond Green crush someone's skull so bad they're leaking cerebral-spinal fluid? Cause Laimbeer did THAT.
Every word of this.
💯
Couldn’t agree more
Most accurate comment.
I was watching Idiocracy the other day and the part where Frito is watching “Ow My Balls”, the show credits come up and the Head Writer is credited as D. Ray Mon.
True, but not positive Lambier was dirtier.
Yeah but that was part of the NBA at the time
Very true
Bill lambeer, it’s not even for debate.
Larry Bird credits Lambier’s play to shortening his career. That is how bad Lambier was.
Wasn't Larry's career shortened because he cheaped out on hiring someone to pave a driveway?
And who fucked up his driveway in the first place? Bill “I Own a Jackhammer” Lambeer.
It was his mom’s driveway
Ah. Musta been another Piston then.
His mom’s driveway that lead right to her Varage.
Could have been any of us then.
Bro I’m dead 😂
I wouldn't say he cheaped out, he did it himself because he's a man.
yeah, i never heard this bird on lambeer thing. citations pls?
From what I recall it was a doc/series on the bad boys vs Celtics series and battles. Larry said his back was destroyed by the punishment he got from the pistons front line, Lambier. His back issues ended up being the issue his career was shortened, and Larry said it was due to the injuries he sustained, IIRC.
I know it’s not a big deal but spelling it lambier is kinda driving me crazy
Larry said it in a doc about the pistons. The pave a driveway thing is made up. He did pave a driveway and mow his moms grass but that’s not what did his back in according to Larry
Wild bc even today’s role players make way too much money to ever consider paving a driveway
Larry Bird wants to save face from his driveway injury
It is up for debate. Laimbeer played aggressively in an aggressive era. Draymond attacks people during an era where you’re not even allowed to gloat.
Laimbeer at least received physical retaliation by getting punch in the face by half the league. Draymond never had to deal with that.
According to Isaiah Thomas, the way Laimbeer ended up playing was a retaliation in itself.
yeah i’d say Draymond is WAY more outta line in todays game than Laimbeer was back then. What do you think would’ve happened in 1989 if draymond put an opposing player in a fuckin chokehold? he would been beat to a pulp on the court
This is how you know this sub was born post-2000.
Tbh I feel like its semantics. Punching your teammate in the face, choking someone, putting you’re entire 230 lb 6 6” frame on someones chest cavity as you stomp on it. Habitual nut kicking. Hard to top.
Nah, I think you just compare each to the mean. The average player today isn’t allowed to do anything even mildly rude. The league actually changed the rules following the bad boys because the entire league was aggressive. What a lot of people here might not realize is that Laimbeer was barely the most aggressive player on his own team. Mahorn and Rodman were very physical players.
Yeah. It’s also just an era thing. Players got away with and would therefore do a lot dirtier things.
“Good, now I won’t have to worry about him getting on the bus and saying ‘Hi Larry,’ and me having to say ‘Fuck you, Bill’” -Larry Bird after being told Bill Laimbeer did not make the 1986 All-Star Team
Laimbeer was so dirty Robert Parish didn’t get called for a foul after punching his lights out
It was such an open thing that in 1990 there was even a video game cartridge called “Bill Laimbeer’s Combat Basketball” for Super Nintendo. Making him literally the poster boy for aggressive play.
lol forgot about that.
Yup Lambeer wouldn’t be allowed to be play today unless he drastically changed his playing style.
Which is funny because he changed the way he played to what we remember so he’d be able to play in the league.
I think Draymond technically dirtier because Bill was way more straightforward with it. Doing it more behind people's backs and being a little cheaper about it is what makes Draymond the dirtier one imo. That of course leans in to the era difference but also in Bill's era you would face retaliation. Draymond seems to only target players he knows wont retaliate, and in an era where retaliation is more forbidden. So again I have to lean in to Draymond being the dirtier one.
100% second this
Exactly. Green has to try and hide it. Today's players rarely go back at Green too (not because they're afraid of him, but because they don't want to lose a game & their salary for it.) Laimbeer didn't have to worry about this and expected people to come after him.
Not disagreeing, but Laimbeer was allowed to be dirtier. He could get away with more. Would 1987 Draymond be even more of a maniac than Laimbeer?
If draymond played in that era, he’d be the dirtiest player of all time. Dude has one of the most punchable faces in the world. Donkey from shriek face
Everyone wants ti adjust for era until in comes to being a dirty player. If you compare Draymond’s level of dirtiness to this era and compare Laimbeer’s dirtiness to that era, Draymond comes out on top. /s
Only one of these players has a [combat basketball](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Basketball) video game. It’s clearly Laimbeer.
"The game takes place in the year 2031. Bill Laimbeer has become commissioner of a basketball league, fired the referees and created a style of play without rules. There are no fouls and use of weapons is perfectly legal." I smell a movie tie-in. "The year is 2031. The judicial system has been eradicated. Disputes are now resolved in a different court...The Combat Basketball Court! Starring Bill Laimbeer as Judge Dredd."
So who’s making this movie with ai ? 🍿
Movies like that make themselves
Loved that game
Laimbeer is like a guy who kicks someone in the nuts during a UFC fight. Dirty, but they were already fighting. Draymond is like a guy who kicks someone in the nuts at a house party. He then tells everyone he’s learning to be a better man before doing it again at the next party. We were just drinking some beer dude wtf is wrong with you.
This is hilarious. Why the house party reference… no clue but makes sense?
It’s not even close. Laimbeer was the dirtiest player ever.
Of the top 5 dirtiest players, I imagine at least two more of them were on those Pistons teams with Laimbeer.
Laimbeer was not only dirtier he did it during a time when you had to expect impediate retaliation and possible payback.
That's why Bill was dirtier but less of a bitch. Consequences were coming for his dirt. Dray plays just as dirty and expects to not get punched in the face, fined, suspended or kicked out of the league. That's why Green goes after Euros (Sabonis, Gobert, Nurkic, Bertans) and players known for *not fighting* (Harden, Beal, Mitchell, LeBron, Chriss, AD.) That's not to say these players are "soft" but instead professional. They come to play pro hoop not WWE. Whereas players that have protected themselves in the past (Anthony, Kawhi, Gordon, Brooks, Rondo, Isaiah Stewart, Tristan Thompson) Green backs off from. That is the log from [this compilation video](https://youtu.be/baNoY_ud7Tk?si=7Tv2lOKJXI2Z20KB). The pattern is clear. Green only goes after guys he doesn't think will come back at him and the NBA protects him. Green is king bitch.
Most people have it right that Laimbeer was much rougher than Green but more open about it. I will add that I don’t remember Laimbeer ever giving someone a nut shot. I could be wrong, but as much as it pains me to say it, I think even Laimbeer had his limits
This is a false narrative. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi9kx7yvsm8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi9kx7yvsm8) "I didn't do a thing", "I was just trying to break his fall" Laimbeer was a liar
If players did what Laimbeer did in today's game, there wouldn't be ejections. There would be arrests.
I'm a Warriors fan. Dray is just an asshole.
It’s easy for everyone to be in the comments saying Dray is dirty, Bill was a good player just tough blah blah blah. You’d be singing a different tune if you were watching Laimbeer throw elbows at your whole team and not get called for shit.
Dray should be a criminal according to many on Reddit
In todays game Laimbeer would last bout 3 games before the backlash got him kicked out of the league. Different times.
Having watched both players at their primes at the time, it is surprising some just say Laimbeer. Not that simple. Laimbeer was extremely dirty and physical, so on an absolute basis: Laimbeer. That was because the league was much more physical. Now Green is MUCH worse relatively to his peers/league standards, unless it was by coincidence that he stomped on Sabonis and kicked players in the groin multiple times. Physical play and taking players out is much less common. Laimbeer would foul out in the first quarter now. Who would I rather play in my prime? 80s rules, neither. That was rough! 2020 rules, either but Green would be worse as he might step on your head as a non basketball play then feign innocence. Laimbeer was dirty but more obvious.
I think you’re really underrating/misremembering how dirty Laimbeer was every single play. Laimbeer and Mahorn were called Mcfilthy and Mcnasty for a reason (Side note McNasty is actually kind of a sick nickname)
I understand what you’re saying but I can’t even consider Green in this competition. Relative to anyone ever Lambeer was fouling people with zero regard for anyone’s safety every opportunity he could find. Zero regard for injury or image. It’s laughable to even compare the two I don’t care what the era differences are if Sabonis grabbed Lambeer’s leg like he did Draymond he’s leaving the arena on a stretcher/in an ambulance not just with a couple bruises.
kermit washington? if we talking about damage. “suffered a fractured skull, broken jaw, broken nose, other facial injuries and leakage of spinal fluid” was close to dying only minutes away. kareem said it sounded like a melon shattering on concrete which reporters said they heard the same in the press box
Did you watch both eras at the time live? Videos now do not do it justice. It was a different world. If Sabonis instigated with Laimbeer, it would be a brawl. That is my point. 1. Let's agree that the eras are not comparable. 2. Green is dirtier than Laimbeer. Laimbeer was more physical, but he would openly attack. Green is sly! Laimbeer was one of the villains in his era (it was the Detroit bad boys, not the Laimbeers). Green is THE villain of his era.
Laimbeer was more sneaky and underhanded than Green by a mile. Idk where this oddball idea that he was just openly aggressive and tough is insane
a brawl is way less dirty than stomping on a fallen foe
I watched both guys and Draymond is legit a 1% Laimbeer. Draymond is like a yellow belt in Laimbeer-fu.
Yes
Lambier was nasty work and is the right answer. But I can only imagine what Draymond would have done in that era. I guess the counterpoint to that is that in 80's, someone would have fucked Draymond up for the shit he pulls.
Dray would just be another player in the 80s, lambier face is next to word dirty in the dictionary
Laimbeer was honest about who he was on the court. Green pretends to lose all control of his body and "accidentally" hit people and step on them. Then goes on a podcast and claims he's a good guy. Green is dirty but soft, Laimbeer was dirty as f but much tougher mentally.
Draymond would be honest to if that sort of play was acceptable today, which it's not. Saying "Laimbeer is atleast honest" is a dumb point because if he played like he did in today's game, he'd be out of the league immediately. There's a ton of PR in the game that players are now required to play into.
The worst part is the hypocrisy.
Yep. Bill would foul you hard and be ready to throw hands and settle things if you didn’t like it. I respect him 10x more than Draymond.
Zaza
not dirty, just an oaf
I think the differences in the 2 probably speaks to wider generational social divides.
Bill and he’d lay Dray out for sure
Lambeer BUT Lambeer would have grown up watching the Enforcer 70s NBA (fighting was closer to hockey than baseball), there were still enforcers in the league. This was still part of the league. Draymond is kicking people in the balls and cheap shotting them in the—frankly—all time low physicality 2010s-20s. Thus draymond stands out far more. Plus 80s dudes would have FUCKED him up for the ball shots. The Pistons, Celts, and Lakers would have all gang stomped him for that shit.
Laimbeer is the godfather of dirty, however what needs to be considered here is that times have changed, in todays game Bill would be suspended whole career, its not that physical anymore and it changes the perspective, having said that, Green is the dirtiest now. I wonder what Greens game would look like in the 80s/90s?
Laimbeer would try to take people out at the knees when they were coming back from layup or a dunk. He actually could have ended careers.
I will qualify this saying I have been a Warriors fan since 2014: Laimbeer is dirty. CP3 is Dirty. Draymond is more unstable than dirty. He doesn't have the emotional intelligence to be just "dirty." A better proxy comparison for Draymond is Artest. Artest would be chill one moment and then boom. Fan gets punched, Harden gets elbowed, camera gets it, etc.
I think this is closer to the truth. However I would add a few things. Laimbeer (to my recollection) did dirty things on the court at least in part because it was good role in the team. So I have no good handle on where the line is between Laimbeer just doing his job and Laimbeer being straight up dirty. CP3 does dirty things when he absolutely doesn’t have to/doesn’t need to. This is the essence of a dirty player. I agree, Artest and Draymond are both unstable. Artest would sometimes try to physically harm other players on the court for no apparent reason. He seemed to have something always simmering under the surface that he contained. He tried to contain it in Detroit and was doing so successfully until that cup of beer came out of nowhere and sent him into a rage. Since his retirement, Artest has let it be known that he did struggle with mental health in his playing days. Draymond is a dirty player and a bully. He does dirty things on the court, always up to the line and then he crosses it. He bullies the refs constantly. He bullies other players that he thinks can get away with bullying. It’s not a coincidence that he targeted Jordan Poole and Rudy Gobert. Anyone could get it from Artest if they ran afoul of him. He didn’t care. But he was never looking to start a fight (again to my recollection). Draymond is way more calculated about who he picks on.
I agreed with 95% of everything you said. The bully label I have trouble with, but maybe that is just my definition of a bully differs a bit. To me a bully is unprovoked and targets weaker people. Draymond going after the refs for instance. The refs have the most power on the court. If they want you gone, they can make it so. They have a strong enough union to do as they wish especially with a player that is not liked by most refs. Refs are by no mean "weaker" in influence. Even the Draymond vs Jordan Poole example, the context is necessary. It wasn't like he walked up and hit Jordan Poole unprovoked. Jordan instigated with, "You're an expensive backpack for 30". Meaning, Draymond got carried while being over paid. So this doesn't meet the criteria either that I have above. I particularly don't like Draymond most of the time, especially recently, but I would not classify him as a bully. I truly believe he's a powder keg who doesn't even bother to size up someone or measure the situation when he gets mad. But that is just my opinion and I have no problem with you differing, of course. ------- Honorable mention of MJ being labeled a bully in last dance: * When MJ punched Kerr, that might have been bullying initially. Kerr did not instigate and Kerr is weaker physically and in influence. MJ apologized immediately so I consider this to be more a heat of the moment "my bad" thing as it never occurred again. * When MJ said Horace Grant couldn't have food because his play was sorry, he did it to the biggest guy on the team who might have had the second most influence of any player. He could have stood up for himself and was within his rights to. This one is on the margin, but I'd consider it not bullying because he's a grown ass man and a big one at that.
Draymond is moodier, Laimbeer was dirtier
Obviously Laimbeer
Just think about this for a second. Draymond is a giant fucking idiot, but how many real injuries has he ever given any player? How many times have players (other than himself) missed games because of his antics? That should give you a sense for how dirty he is in the grand scheme of things.
Laimbeer for sure was dirtier. But Draymond is a bitch about it. Laimbeer will just straight up push you in the air or elbow you and then be like SO WHAT. Draymond will act like he’s falling down or something and elbow you, then pretend he didn’t mean to.
Laimbeer ain’t even close
Laimbeer is possibly the dirtiest player in the history of the league, certainly the dirtiest I've ever seen play. Easy answer.
It’s not even close. Laimbeer was not just dirty he definitely tried to hurt guys. Not just obvious stuff, the guy did sneaky rotten stuff on the court. He did more dirty things far more often.
Laimbeer, easy
Easily Bill
Lambeer by 100x
I mean it kinda seems like Bill at least liked his teammates. Draymond tho?
Bill Lambeer is dirtier and much more physical. Draymond is just a bitch, going for guys from behind or when they can’t defend themselves (like kicking nuts) and then he lies and says it wasn’t what it actually was. Lambeer was a dirty asshole, Draymond is a fake tough guy coward.
Does the Pope shit in the woods?
might be even...i seen clips of Bill...and dray probably did also
joe momma
This shouldn’t even be a question. It’s laimbeer. However in his defense he played in an era where he could get away with more than green could.
Laimbeer walked so Draymond could kick aussies in the nuts.
Lambeer!!!
Clearly, the OP has not seen anything other than highlights of Laimbeer. He’s a goon with a jump shot.
I assume whoever posted this is under the age of 30.
Laimbeer was dirtier but it's hard to say because they didn't care nearly as much as they do now. There were literally people getting knocked out mid game and they just keep going like nothing happened lmao.
Bill Laimbeer obviously
Laimbeer aka ‘the prince of darkness’ was an absolute scourge
Laimbeer
Laimbeer, and it honestly isn't close at all
Lambeer. Asking this question at all is disrespectful to the game.
Can’t compare….it’s apples to apples
I’m gonna say Draymond. Only for the reason he tries to act like he didn’t do anything dirty.
Draymond is a worse player so he relies on his dirty tricks more
Straight up? Laimbeer. Adjusted for era? Probably Draymond. There were a lot of dirty players during Laimbeer’s time.
Lambier was a straight thug. Draymond is a violent spaz. There's a difference.
Given the times I think draymond. Part of the anger with laimbeer is that they were ending and preventing dynasties
Laimbeer, and it isn't even close
I’m going Draymond. Laimbeer was making plays to try to stop people from scoring. Draymond just kicked dudes in the nuts for no reason.
Dray is a nuisance. Laimbeer was straight up dirty and would ask you “what are you gonna do about it?” Not close
Bill was a tougher player. Draymond is a dirtier player. There’s a big difference.
Green and it’s not close
Who’s better? BL was ahead of his time as a stretch big.
Zaza
Laimbeer was dirtier, but accepted his villian role. Draymond is a bitch who cheap shots his own teammates at practice, and kicks ppl in the nuts.
Bill Laimbeer was coldcocked by Robert Parish during Game 5 of the CONFERENCE FINALS and the refs didn’t do shit. Not even a foul call. Because everyone in the arena and watching on TV knew that Bill abso-fucking-lutely deserved it and it had been a long time coming. Draymond is definitely an instigator who plays with an edge, and probably would have fit in well in that era. But Bill wouldn’t be allowed to play in today’s league with the shit he used to pull on the reg. Bill loved hurting people, and it’s why he has so few contemporaries from his playing days that have anything nice to say about him, aside from a few of his teammates.
Laimbeer was a dude nobody wanted to deal with. Dirty af. Draymond is like a dumbass little kid with his bullshit. Kicking people in the nuts and swinging your arms around like a dipshit. It’s never felt the same.
Green might be dirtier relative to era. Guys in the 80’s fought all the time, even Bird and Hakeem used to throw down. Half The league was coked up back then.
Bill did most of his dirty work as a tactic, while Green would just rage out and lash out. I’m not saying Bill didn’t get mad but he knew what he was doing, Green just can’t control himself.
It's not even close laimbeer and the pistons strategy to beat mj was to literally destroy his body
Laimbeer and it's not even close.
Laimbeer.
Draymond bullies player but Lambeer used to put them out for the season
Laimbeer by a mile. Draymond would be just another physical guy in the late 1980's and early 1990's, the standards were different then.
The one with a Super Nintendo game named after him.
Bill by sheer amount of fistfights.
In a vacuum Laimbeer But in the context of the rules when they played it's a lot closer. Laimbeer will give you a forearm shiver but Draymond will kick you in the nuts and act like he didn't
As much as I want to say Draymond, because he is a giant baby bitch, the answer is Bill Laimbeer. He's a dude so dirty, that a game developer created "Bill Laimbeer's Combat Basketball"
Laimbeer! Omfg. The biggest asshole to ever grace a court and he looked like an Accountant
Different types of dirty. Laimbeer had a purpose behind his dirty play. Draymoron is just an insane Andy Bernard on the basketball court.
“Yes”
Bro this isn't even close. The Beastie Boys released a song threatening to kill Bill Laimbeer. That's how hated he was.
Bill by far
Bill is mean an nasty like a ole 1960s NFL lineman
The Slowman was WAY dirtier. He did things on a basketball court that would get you charged with a felony in real life.
Bill Laimbeer was immortalized in *Bill Laimbeer’s Combat Basketball*
Idk that I would put it all on Bill, the whole team played like that. Draymond is a flat out pussy on the court, what kind of a grown man kicks people in the balls?
Draymond green.
At least Lambier fought and took a few L's. I like Draymond but he sucker punches and runs, and the way he tells it, he never lost
Bill laimbeer is a dirtier player overall but he was in a dirty era. Draymond is one of few giving cheap shots in today’s game. Relative to their era draymond is an all time dirty player.
Laimbeer was rough, but if we’re talking “dirty”, Draymond still ranks behind Bruce Bowen.
Laimbeer could hit the 3’s and was a lot more entertaining than Draymond. I mean the guy was an asshole but he was hilarious. He was just like a WWF heel at the time. He kind of reminded me of Honkey Tonk Man.
Definitely Billy L. He straight up would cold cock mf's
Bill Laimbeer. He was my favorite player when I was younger.
The best question I’ve seen on SM. I’m here for the comments 😂
Bill. Some of it wasn't even personal and other things were VERY PERSONAL.. . All the time, those things got done. With the same vigor. It was a different league in that aspect though too so he wasn't the only one. Right now, it's just Draymond and maybe Beef Stew, if he's even done anything else outside of that one incident. In a league full of, "I might chop your ass across the chest if you come in this lane one more time.." players, it wasn't something that stood out as much as anything Dray has been involved in. I also don't think there's a time where I saw Bill do something and I thought, "Maybe... maybe he didn't mean to do that shit...". I have with Dray, although that doesn't necessarily doesn't mean he didn't mean to do it. It was just done on the sly or on some 'Well, since it's already gone this far.. let me amp it up.." type time. Bill's acts were more along of the lines 'Yup.. fucked him right up.. Tell him not to come through here then.." or 'Yeah, he is killing us, let me let him know something.. '. All intentional though.. That's the difference I see between the two. I also think that Bill's actual acts were worse. Grabbing people outta the air and slamming 'em down.. Punches.. etc.
Love me some Bill Laimbeer but he was notorious for his "dirty play" with the best of the best.
Laimbeer could have legitimately been arrested back in the day.
Not even CLOSE!!! Laimbeer! Dray is more of a whiny, big-mouth, bully who’s never even had to show anyone he can throw! Crying to refs. As someone born and raised in Boston I grew up watchin’ those classic NBA Playoff runs from like 84-on. It was SO much different. There would literally be games with only like 3 3-pointers attempted. It was all drop it down, bang-bang-bang the rim, or kick it out for a shot. EVERYONE played EVERY game. I remember McHale played the entire ‘87 playoff run (lost to LA on last second skyhook by Magic) on a legit broken foot! He walks with a noticeable limp to this day from it. It was war. It really was. Guys like Laimbeer, Rodman, Ainge, Rambis, Bird, Horace Grant, Oakley, Ewing, Starks, Kemp, McDaniel. Every team had like 2-3 straight out brawlers. Like a hockey team. Something happens to Mike, Horace, or Levingston would be all over them. Parish would go. It was great. Draymond would’ve fit in. The rules are so strict now. I’d love to call him names, but I can’t. He’s a scrapper.
If you took a poll of 80’s-early 90’s guys and asked who was the dirtiest player they ever played against and John Stockton would be the hands-down winner. -Charles Barkley
I’ll die on this hill. It’s Laimbeer. And it‘s the era. With 80s rules you’d see way more from Dray. He’d be totally unchecked.
draymond easy. in bills time that was expected. dray doing swingimng backfists in the podcaster era
Laimbeer. If it wasn’t for him, Isiah would’ve been on the dream team.
I never saw Laimbeer kick someone in the balls. He was a giant piece of shit, but there was "honor" in his dirt. Green is just a punk.
Where does zaza rank in here
Joel embiid is every bit as dirty as draymond the label doesn't stick yhe same because he's a superstar. Draymonds identity is dirty, whiny, malicious, difficult, overly emotional and short tempered. Embiid is all these things as well but no.one wants to hear it. The media doesn't talk about it. Lambier was dirty as fuck in a dirty era. Draymond is dirty but he stands out because it's not acceptable in this era. I dont think he would have nearly the rep if he plaulyed back then. Jordan is revered as an ultra competitor who's personality defects were necessary to be the greatest. He punched 2 teammates we know about. People want draymond kicked out of the league. I'm not justifying his actions I more just wish people opened there eyes to the hypocrisy and how media narratives play in to what the nba wants. Which is NOT a superstar like embiid being seen for what he has shown himself to.be time and time again
Embiid ALREADY has more flagrantes than green— legit danger to the players around him.
Joel Embiib
Bill
Lambier would get free passes for things that’s get draymond suspended in todays league