The dealer is giving you completely wrong info, especially if he is claiming that you have to pay $200 per person and do the extra paperwork/fingerprints while NOT using a trust.
If you want them on a trust, don't let the dealer talk you out of it. You would need fingerprints for each of you if you are both trustees. If he was submitting as an individual, they would only need his fingerprints.
Have you filed Form 4 yet as an individual under your husband’s name?
If so, you can request to withdraw the application then file again as a trust. When you file as a trust, each person named as a trustee will need to fill out a Form 5320.23 (Responsible Person Questionnaire) and submit their fingerprints. Persons named as beneficiaries DO NOT need to do this.
If you choose to file Form 4 in your husband’s name as an individual, then he only has to do fingerprints. You and your kids DO NOT have to submit your fingerprints. However, as long as it is under his name, you cannot take possession of it (you can use it in the range as long as he is with you).
If you file as an individual and later want to transfer it into a trust, you can file another Form 4 with all the fingerprints/RPQs and pay another 200$ tax and wait again (though don’t know why you would want to pay that again).
I suggest you search YouTube for u/nationalguntrusts videos. They have amazing step-by-step videos regarding different ATF Forms.
Final recommendation, you may want to ditch this dealer as it seems they don’t know crap about ATF form filing and they can easily make erroneous submissions that will leave you waiting 200+ days just to get a denial at the end due to their incompetence!
Edit: Full disclosure, I am not a lawyer nor a legal professional. The above should not be taken as a legal advice. This is merely a personal opinion regarding the facts provided at the time on this comment 😁.
RUN AWAY!!!! Run fast! Run far! Before the stupid takes hold in your brain.
This "dealer" doesn't have a ****ing clue!!!
You only need prints for everyone, if they are part of a trust. Since he said you "must" do it as an individual, the others don't need prints, only that individual. Seriously, find a dealer that actually knows at least the ****ing difference!
This guy is trying to scam you. Individual would mean single owner, single $200 tax, and single prints. Trust would still be a single tax, but prints from all responsible trust parties (likely just you and your husband). There is no world where you should have multiple tax stamps per can. With two cans, two stamps, period, regardless of filing type.
I hope you haven’t gone with this dealer they sound incompetent or scummy. You can file a form 4 (for the suppressor) as an individual or a trust. Individual means it only belongs to that person and cannot be used without them being present. (also have issues with transfer to descendants upon individuals death) Trust means the suppressor belongs to the trust that you own. To get the suppressor approved you only have to have one person’s fingerprints as long as they are the only ones on the trust before it’s approved. After it’s approved you can amend the trust and add other people without having to submit their fingerprints and background checks yada yada. However if you put both suppressors in the same trust you will have to submit prints for any responsible persons. Each suppressor will have to have a 200$ tax stamp per suppressor. (NOT PER PERSON) If you have already filed a form 4 in your husbands name as an individual, and you want to transfer it to a trust you must pay another 200$ for another form 4. So if you have accidentally filed as an individual and the tax stamp as not been approved I would ask for the form 4 to be canceled. This allows you to restart and not blow an extra 200$ transferring the suppressor from an individual to a trust.
Hopefully it makes sense
TLDR the store is either willfully ignorant and confused or they are shady.
If they are in your husbands name you don’t need to provide fingerprints for you and your kids. The only reason for that would be if you were filing with a trust. Even then easier to still just do your husband alone and add the rest of you afterwards
I am in full support of folks who enjoy their rights, and as such, I try to understand that not everyone is really into NFA items. A lot of stores are really uneducated in the Title 2 realm, and it doesn't mean they are bad people or run a bad business....
In this case, I would strongly recommend not dealing with that company for NFA stuff. They could be awesome in other aspects, but that information sounds like a giant mess.
Perhaps it's worth considering a transfer to another dealer, or discussion with a different employee...
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> Our dealer sold us 2 suppressors and told us we needed to do them individually instead of inside of our trust.
Filing as a trust vs individual is totally up to the purchaser, *not* the dealer.
>My husband decided to put them in his name. The dealer told us it would be $200 and fingerprints for each of us (Hubby, me and 2 kids).
If he filed the Form 4 for them as an *individual*, then the only one needing fingerprints/photo is your husband. The only reason your kids and yourself would need to be fingerprinted (and need photos) would be if you were all on the trust (which I assume you are) and you used the trust when filing the Form 4.
I also hope to god you mean he said you owed $200 for the stamp and not that he charged *each* of you $200.
Either way, this dealer is a complete idiot.
What are your intentions?
Do you want you and your husband to be able to use the suppressor whenever as co-trustees? Are your kids 21 and want to be trustees? meaning whoever is a trustee can take 1 or both suppressors and go hunting alone. (take possession). If this is the case a trust is best.
If this is just a beneficiary thing, meaning husband is always going to be in possession and wants to hand off to wife and or kids when he dies then an individual is ok. Just make sure if the individual form 4 route have the suppressors listed in his will so they can be transferred on form 5 to wife or kids tax free.
To clarify they are already filed under his name. We want to move them into the trust. It sounds like this dealer is terrible and we can pay again for a new stamp. What's my process forward? New dealer to help us do this?
If they were originally put under your husband with an individual form 4 that has come back, and he's taken possession of them, you'll have to start the process over again, and do a form 4 from your husband to a trust.
If you're still waiting for the paperwork to process, you can have your dealer cancel the in process eform, get a refund, and restart the process on a trust. Everyone listed as a trustee will have to do fingerprints and passport photos.
If your dealer charged you for fingerprints and photos for husband, wife, and kids, then did an individual form, they lied to you to get some extra money out of you. Only whoever had the individual form 4 needed prints and photos.
In that case, your only option would be to use the ATF Form 4 to transfer the firearms from him to the gun trust. That would incur the $200 tax stamp for each transfer.
Kill the application and refile as a trust. The ATF will refund your tax stamp fee.
And yes, find a new NFA dealer, but talk to them about what you want to do before committing.
The dealer is giving you completely wrong info, especially if he is claiming that you have to pay $200 per person and do the extra paperwork/fingerprints while NOT using a trust.
If you want them on a trust, don't let the dealer talk you out of it. You would need fingerprints for each of you if you are both trustees. If he was submitting as an individual, they would only need his fingerprints.
Dealer sounds like a clownshoe. I'd run to a competent dealer.
They let anyone be an sot these days?
"So easy a caveman can do it!" - SilencerShop, probably
Have you filed Form 4 yet as an individual under your husband’s name? If so, you can request to withdraw the application then file again as a trust. When you file as a trust, each person named as a trustee will need to fill out a Form 5320.23 (Responsible Person Questionnaire) and submit their fingerprints. Persons named as beneficiaries DO NOT need to do this. If you choose to file Form 4 in your husband’s name as an individual, then he only has to do fingerprints. You and your kids DO NOT have to submit your fingerprints. However, as long as it is under his name, you cannot take possession of it (you can use it in the range as long as he is with you). If you file as an individual and later want to transfer it into a trust, you can file another Form 4 with all the fingerprints/RPQs and pay another 200$ tax and wait again (though don’t know why you would want to pay that again). I suggest you search YouTube for u/nationalguntrusts videos. They have amazing step-by-step videos regarding different ATF Forms. Final recommendation, you may want to ditch this dealer as it seems they don’t know crap about ATF form filing and they can easily make erroneous submissions that will leave you waiting 200+ days just to get a denial at the end due to their incompetence! Edit: Full disclosure, I am not a lawyer nor a legal professional. The above should not be taken as a legal advice. This is merely a personal opinion regarding the facts provided at the time on this comment 😁.
RUN AWAY!!!! Run fast! Run far! Before the stupid takes hold in your brain. This "dealer" doesn't have a ****ing clue!!! You only need prints for everyone, if they are part of a trust. Since he said you "must" do it as an individual, the others don't need prints, only that individual. Seriously, find a dealer that actually knows at least the ****ing difference!
This guy is trying to scam you. Individual would mean single owner, single $200 tax, and single prints. Trust would still be a single tax, but prints from all responsible trust parties (likely just you and your husband). There is no world where you should have multiple tax stamps per can. With two cans, two stamps, period, regardless of filing type.
If you decide to put them in your trust later, you’ll have to pay for additional tax stamps. If you have a trust, put them in the trust.
Yes, that's bad info.
I hope you haven’t gone with this dealer they sound incompetent or scummy. You can file a form 4 (for the suppressor) as an individual or a trust. Individual means it only belongs to that person and cannot be used without them being present. (also have issues with transfer to descendants upon individuals death) Trust means the suppressor belongs to the trust that you own. To get the suppressor approved you only have to have one person’s fingerprints as long as they are the only ones on the trust before it’s approved. After it’s approved you can amend the trust and add other people without having to submit their fingerprints and background checks yada yada. However if you put both suppressors in the same trust you will have to submit prints for any responsible persons. Each suppressor will have to have a 200$ tax stamp per suppressor. (NOT PER PERSON) If you have already filed a form 4 in your husbands name as an individual, and you want to transfer it to a trust you must pay another 200$ for another form 4. So if you have accidentally filed as an individual and the tax stamp as not been approved I would ask for the form 4 to be canceled. This allows you to restart and not blow an extra 200$ transferring the suppressor from an individual to a trust. Hopefully it makes sense TLDR the store is either willfully ignorant and confused or they are shady.
If they are in your husbands name you don’t need to provide fingerprints for you and your kids. The only reason for that would be if you were filing with a trust. Even then easier to still just do your husband alone and add the rest of you afterwards
I am in full support of folks who enjoy their rights, and as such, I try to understand that not everyone is really into NFA items. A lot of stores are really uneducated in the Title 2 realm, and it doesn't mean they are bad people or run a bad business.... In this case, I would strongly recommend not dealing with that company for NFA stuff. They could be awesome in other aspects, but that information sounds like a giant mess. Perhaps it's worth considering a transfer to another dealer, or discussion with a different employee...
**Understand the rules**, read the sidebar, and review the stickied Megathreads before posting - this content is capable of answering most questions. Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate. All spam, memes, unverified claims, or content suggesting non-compliance will be removed. No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics. ------------------------------- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NFA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> Our dealer sold us 2 suppressors and told us we needed to do them individually instead of inside of our trust. Filing as a trust vs individual is totally up to the purchaser, *not* the dealer. >My husband decided to put them in his name. The dealer told us it would be $200 and fingerprints for each of us (Hubby, me and 2 kids). If he filed the Form 4 for them as an *individual*, then the only one needing fingerprints/photo is your husband. The only reason your kids and yourself would need to be fingerprinted (and need photos) would be if you were all on the trust (which I assume you are) and you used the trust when filing the Form 4. I also hope to god you mean he said you owed $200 for the stamp and not that he charged *each* of you $200. Either way, this dealer is a complete idiot.
What are your intentions? Do you want you and your husband to be able to use the suppressor whenever as co-trustees? Are your kids 21 and want to be trustees? meaning whoever is a trustee can take 1 or both suppressors and go hunting alone. (take possession). If this is the case a trust is best. If this is just a beneficiary thing, meaning husband is always going to be in possession and wants to hand off to wife and or kids when he dies then an individual is ok. Just make sure if the individual form 4 route have the suppressors listed in his will so they can be transferred on form 5 to wife or kids tax free.
Would you go buy a car and try to get 4 titles?
To clarify they are already filed under his name. We want to move them into the trust. It sounds like this dealer is terrible and we can pay again for a new stamp. What's my process forward? New dealer to help us do this?
If they were originally put under your husband with an individual form 4 that has come back, and he's taken possession of them, you'll have to start the process over again, and do a form 4 from your husband to a trust. If you're still waiting for the paperwork to process, you can have your dealer cancel the in process eform, get a refund, and restart the process on a trust. Everyone listed as a trustee will have to do fingerprints and passport photos. If your dealer charged you for fingerprints and photos for husband, wife, and kids, then did an individual form, they lied to you to get some extra money out of you. Only whoever had the individual form 4 needed prints and photos.
This 👆
Did your husband already take possession of the suppressors?
Yes
In that case, your only option would be to use the ATF Form 4 to transfer the firearms from him to the gun trust. That would incur the $200 tax stamp for each transfer.
Thank you. We are ok with that
You are welcome. Let us know if we can help you with anything else.
Kill the application and refile as a trust. The ATF will refund your tax stamp fee. And yes, find a new NFA dealer, but talk to them about what you want to do before committing.
We have the suppressors in our possession
😬 You're only option is to transfer each of them to the trust @ $200 a pop
Get a different dealer. That guy is an idiot