Before the ocm5 came out and aem5s were selling aftermarket for 2k+, I called over to capitol because I wanted to purchase an aem5 and wanted to ask some questions about full payment. They told me that if they dont get anymore AEM5s that they would keep my money and put it towards another can, like what the fuck? LMAO
The rules do say manufacturers have to use an “individual serial number not duplicated on any other firearm”. I assume we’ve seen that not enforced in the past, but it’s more common practice for makers to use serials with a prefix letter or something specific to that model. Like, you could still have a serial number “R9-0001” and a “R7-0001” for the first firearm of two different models. I can’t think of any firearm manufacturers that *don’t* unique-code sn’s. Colt has prefixes that tell whether it’s a custom shop/frame/sporter, etc. Each Ruger model begins with a certain prefix that's not shared by another model, etc. Gemtech, each serial started with “S”(silencer), then year, then an individual SN.
I might be out of the loop here, but what was THEIR problem here? I was under the impression it was an issue between Resilient and the ATF, not CA and I saw only yesterday an update from Capitol Armory that an issue had occurred ([https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/1axb7sj/comment/krmwdcf/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/1axb7sj/comment/krmwdcf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
Maybe I'm missing some info on what happened a month ago?
OP is insinuating that CA knew about the problem a month/several weeks before form 4s started getting disapproved, and they chose not to be proactive and communicative with customers. My shop had 6 cans affected by the same issue, and I knew what was going on a month ago. If a little shop like mine knows what was going on, there's no way CA didn't too. I pulled our affected submitted form 4s three weeks ago 🤷🏻♂️
In 3.5 years I have processed about 300 form 4s. In that time I have made 3 mistakes. 1 for a regular, who just shrugged it off. 1 for a first time buyer, who I gave a free piston to. 1 for a multi-suppressor owner, who I offered a muzzle device that he declined.
Everyone makes mistakes, how you move past those mistakes is what matters. I'd rather lose $50 on a goodwill part than lose a customer for life.
Same,
when I was first starting out as a home based FFL/SOT, I made mistakes on paperwork for my first 3 cans, caused the customers denials after a couple months, for me, it was an expensive choice at the time, but I comped them their tax stamps back as an apology,
Since then all 3 of the people affected are on their 5th+ can and have bought them all through me.
Customer service is the life blood of a business, even more so in the firearms industry because mistakes and manufacturing defects happen, it's a lot of moving parts, but treating your customers right will end up with your business growing and your customers coming back.
This isn't to you specifically, but figured I'd give my two cents.
I also had a 4 month denial on an RS9 ordered through bauer precision. Same day was reassigned a new serial number.
Reach out to [email protected] about this. They sent me something cool to make up for the issue
I see two sides here. First, CA has their return policy clearly stated. Either you’re ok with that at time of purchase or not. But it is their policy to make and you went forward with the purchase.
The other side is this is a unique situation on an item they typically stock. Just take care of the customer and move on. It’s a real short sighted approach. Honestly, it’s things like this where they have the choice to treat a customer well or stick it to them because the rules they made say they can that make or break a company for me. I want the guy I’m buying from to treat me like my best interest is the goal and that’s clearly not what happened here. Knowing CA will stick to their return policy regardless of any unforeseen circumstances makes me want to look elsewhere.
Between this and their employee talking about releasing customer recorded phone calls: I’m 100% never using this service or recommending it.
Reached out to capitol armory and that are okay with what their employee did. Wild.
They’re deleting their comments now.
Because the customer said no, the employee said he’ll write the transcript of the call and post it here. Wild.
https://preview.redd.it/yfnl2cnlfekc1.jpeg?width=1105&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9b534b67c146d4ec84317a79fdd09a96c90db7e
I'm confused here though, they sold something that the ATF is now saying cannot be sold. So OP isn't after return. OP is after a refund. CA owes either the money or a sellable ownable product.
Right and I believe CA’s answer is that they have and are processing a replacement now and since they are working with a replacement, it would count as a return. At least that was the info I had gathered from the other thread on this. If they both refuse to get a replacement RS9 and start the process over as well as refuse to refund that would be horrendous. I was under the assumption they have an RS9 with a valid SN to restart the form 4 process and don’t want to go the refund route.
Regardless, if the paperwork hasn’t started for the replacement can, just refund it and move on.
You're running out of time if that's where this is heading. Most banks give cardholders 120 days to dispute a charge. Some places like AMEX allow 180 I wanna say.
Already filed thinking exactly this. Their social media guy(s)/NFA people calling me a liar and talking shit was something else😂. There’s no coming back from all that.
No one was talking shit to you, we defended ourselves against false accusations.
I’m still not shit talking you. I’m happy to share your recorded phone call here for everyone to listen to with your permission.
TX, along with most states, are single party consent for recording and releasing calls. I unfortunately learned this because of a vindictive ex. They could legally release the call. At least if the recorded the call in their TX office.
Yeah it would depend on where op is. The laws pertain to both states. If both in TX then yeah they could release it, one party state. My state is 2 party thankfully.
Holy shit. I was sorta on the fence of this situation, but reading what you just wrote made sure I will never buy anything through you all.
Absolutely baffling you’d ever write something like this. This is your alls customer service / social media team? I want to believe this is someone not associated because of how wild this is.
And that’s totally up to you man, you’re going to shop where you want. I respect that.
I offered to put the cards on the table to call out someone that’s spreading false information.
I’m not sharing any of his information and I wouldn’t share a customers information without their express written consent as I and we respect and protect everyone’s privacy and we’re obligated to do so.
My main issue is the OP saying we told him things that no one said. The resilient issue sucks. I’m sympathize 100% with that. I’ve been in the customer end for similar situations and disapprovals. It sucks, and we always work with people to make sure they’re happy with their purchase in the end.
It should be fair game to address people when they’re spreading false information about what we’ve told them.
I understand that and I’ll agree with you.
It’s hard to dictate over text meaning and emotion.
I’m under no circumstance trying to be an asshole to the dude.
I don’t know how to convey that what he’s saying is false, No conversations conveyed that we delayed this resilient stuff by any means.
We got the new cans in today, within ten minutes of UPS dropping them off I made sure he had a new docusign and ready to roll. Going through with it I’d still get him extra goods and something to save In the future.
I’m not mad at the dude or anyone here. I’d still LIKE to get him taken care of but that opportunity is likely gone.
If he wants a refund why not just give it to him? It’s obviously not his fault, and insisting on payment without being able to provide the goods or services as originally agreed is fraud…. This is going to cost you so much more in the end …SMDH
And now threats from these fine folks. You can’t share my phone call or any of my personal information. Hopefully my credit card company resolves this issue with your company.
If people were posting on this sub about this problem in the middle of last month, how would you not know about it..? You and your cronies must stalk this forum 24/7.
https://preview.redd.it/xhkur0cz0ekc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d9a9697340c14173f9541bdefe69497c8fa3bf7
Well, you just made it absolutely certain that I'll never spend a single dime with you.
Are you the owner, and if not, why the fuck hasn't the owner fired you for engaging in such a stupid fucking no-win scenario. Like, goddamn, dude...
Yeah... I have 16 stamps, queuing up 3 more in the next week or two. And who knows what the future will bring.
But uhh... wow. Definitely going to actively avoid even browsing CA's website now.
That's definitely a choice you've made.
That's a terrible bank then. I did a charge back after a year for something I bought from over seas, and was in contact with the business for the entire year being strung along. My bank refunded me the cash the same day.
Or small claims court they’d have to show up in person and likely in your state lol 😆
People don’t use this enough to get money back from companies who have screwed us customers over. Often times companies will pay just to not show up and settle the claim.
If companies just did the right thing and took responsibility as the makers of life saving equipment and PPE seriously we wouldn't have to resort to such tactics. How hard is QC? How hard is standing behind your product. There are entire subreddits dedicated to solving problems manufactures fail to disclose to consumers. r/Hyperion_Rattler_Saga
The fact that retail stores allow refunds on faulty products is a grace that they choose to provide. At the end of the day, Walmart didn't make the faulty product and would be well within their rights to tell you to take it up with the manufacturer who made the faulty product. That's what warranties are for. At the end of the day, it's just easier for them to give you the refund than to take the time to explain that to every single dissatisfied (and likely disgruntled) customer-and they are large enough to do that. I'm not defending CA here, I'm just explaining that at the end of the day, your faulty Xbox is actually Microsoft's responsibility, not Walmart's.
You almost always have to do small claims in the defendant's jurisdiction. If they have an office in your location, you can claim that's a valid jurisdiction. But not if you're doing business with a mail order company.
I’m more in line with just reporting companies to the feds: the FTC. The charges for committing trade crimes will be far higher than what my costs were AND I will still get my refund lol. I don’t have to pay court filing fees and if they’re an FFL committing trade crimes, the ATF might catch wind.
For me its cheaper than doing a Form3 to a local shop since all my FFLs charge $75+ to transfer NFA items. They make the process easiest imo since i can certify my item at home over the phone
I don't like doing business with strange FFLs I have no rapport with, like the first can I bought with the only place in the area at the time with a Kiosk, and just had an overall subpar experience, including not being able to conjugal the can even after that shop told me I could use their range for doing that. They weren't dicks but it definitely soured it a bit.
That shop got fucked by the ATF on papers a couple years later, but once bitten twice shy. I like sticking with the FFL I'm good with.
My buddy did that route and it took him 3 weeks for the FFL and SilencerShop to get his can certified. No thanks. 10min phone call with Capitol Armory is my choice
The wait is functionally the same (if things go well). SilencerShop has to form 3 it to the dealer at the beginning of the process. Whereas Capitol armory has to mail the Cleo notification at the end. Capitol armory keeps it all in house so there’s definitely less variance.
No, not the Form3 taking them 3 weeks. 3 weeks to get the Kiosk working for my buddy. The can was already at the FFL.
Form3s wait times vary weirdly, so at least with CA the CLEO notification and everything is more consistent timing
My main issue was the can not showing up on the form. Dealer tried to add it in manually a bunch of times, but the stupid SS software just crashed nearly every time. Its just annoying af to have to wait that long just to start the wait 😂
$200?!? God damn. I’ve bought 2 dealer inventory, 5 SilencerShop, and 3 capitol armory and have never paid a transfer fee. You guys are getting ripped off.
Do they charge for the kiosk now? I did my first form 4 5ish years ago and it didn’t add any cost to digitize my prints.
I rolled my own for my 4 SBRs though. That $50 fee is bullshit.
Just dispute the charge with credit card company, done. You have proof they refused to provide the product or refund you the money.
They can argue their internal policies all they want but unless you actively signed off on an agreement during the purchase that’s says “in the event the product cannot be provided to the customer, we reserve the right to provide a credit towards another purchase but will not offer a refund ” then they are screwed.
They can’t just put that in a policy somewhere and expect you to find it in your own.
They can in fact provide a refund at any time for any amount. Even if you never purchased anything from them. They just need your CC info. Generally they cannot do an automated refund as most CC systems wipe the card data for security reasons within 30-90 days. They can still do it manually though
Here is the backstory on the RS9 issue…
The ATF approved them on the original Form 2 (9 months ago), hundreds of Form 3s and even some form 4’s.
They then contacted me the week after shot show to inform me that they were invalidating these serial numbers and that all had to be destroyed.
Since i was notified, i have reached out to every dealer with the known serials to withdrawl these form. This did not happen in a day, let alone in a week. I am one individual having to email 250 people with contact info i do not have. These cans were sold through distribution and direct to dealers. So most of my time was searching for contact information on people i has never spoken with. I started from serial 1 and went up from there, so you can imagine there was a delay between 1 and 167 for example.
In some cases the ATF moved faster than dealers could react. In larger shops most of their systems are automated for daily operations and paperwork filing. This being a one off incident that has never happened before, it could have thrown a major wrench in their plans. Which would result in a delay compared to a small shop that has to notify one customer.
Since this issue has been in the public eye, i have had many NFA dealers and manufacturers reach out to me directly to tell me that they have done the same exact thing we have done in the past (same prefix on two different models) without an issue and that we are just the ones that the NFA division designed to crack down on.
To show how inconsistent the NFA division is, i can tell you that the same people that are telling us these need to be returned and destroyed are still approving these on form 4’s. Just for them to be later forfeited to a local ATF field office. So regardless if you get an approval or a disapproval the ATF wants that can destroyed.
The first question i had when we were notified was what about wait times? will the customer have to start all over? can these be expedited? How can these be invalidated after you have already appproved them on multiple trasnfers?
The response i got was…
“Hey we shouldnt have approved them, thats our fault.”
“The customers will have to start over with a new can.”
Thats the worse thing they could have told me.
The last thing i want to do as a small business owner is let a customer down. At the end of the day im not going to sleep at night knowing i disappointed someone from a mistake i made.
To try and make up for this mistake we are offering 50% off as many suppressors as you would like from our website.
I understand some people will want nothing to do with that as this has been a bridge burner for them. Being a small on man company i wish we could do more to alleviate the stress we have caused but we are not at the size to do so. As all of these RS9’s affected made up all of the RS9 sales for 2023.
This was unexpected for us and we apologize for the inconvenience this has caused.
If you have any questions please email
[email protected]
I am a one man show over here so all of your responses arent coming from a customer service rep or some social media guy. I hope this can shine some light on the situation and ill be as open as i can with the situation if you have any questions.
Im sorry we failed to deliver on this.
- Tyler Reeves
He can blast all day, he has the right to do that. I’m not upset that he’s doing so.
However we also have the right to defend ourselves and point out blatant lies and false accusations.
He didn’t give us a chance to resolve anything. This is all In the last 48 hours. Everyone else is getting docusigns for their replacement silencers today too.
We go out of the way to take care of people affected by random shit. Usually in the form of extra merch, discounts, shipping or something else. He didn’t give us a chance to do that.
Resilient is also offering 50% off everything on their site for people affected.
Nice. You’ve finally done the bare minimum for your customer that gave you money. Great work. Now go back to passively threatening him about how you have his phone calls recorded
>CA waited for this RS9 Form 4 to decline instead of withdrawing it when they became aware of THEIR problem at least a month ago
Who's problem? Who fucked up here exactly? Did CA manufacture a suppressor and not adhere to NFA rules? Or did CA sell you someone elses suppressor and they fucked up?
What I gather is this. OP bought a Resilient RS9 from CA. CA submitted the Form 4. Resilient screwed up and used duplicate serial numbers on their cans. CA became aware of this and knew that the Form 4's were not going to clear the ATF. Instead of pulling the the form 4 request and refunding people money, they waited 30 more days for the ATF to decline the form 4 and then told OP that it was too late to get a refund but he could use that money as credit for something else in their shop. OP asked for a refund when this was exposed 30 days before and CA said no and waited, it was a total 4 month wait for the decline.
Edited for accuracy lol.
I hate to say it but CA isn't in the wrong here. It's not like THEY filled the forms out wrong. If they filled out the forms wrong, then I would agree but that's not what happened.
OP needs to be mad at Resilient and request they compensate for a new form.
CA is doing the right thing by offering a credit when they've done nothing wrong.
Either way OP got fucked. Resilient needs to make OP whole for THEIR mistake.
Resilient should have issued a directive for any dealer to refund customers who purchased a suppressor regardless of purchase date. If Im CA, Im going to be telling people to talk to Resilient about refunds.
----
It would be the same thing if the suppressor broke from a QC issue. OP can't be mad at CA who sold them the faulty item. You'd be mad at who made it.
The fact that CA wont refund his money does not sit well with me. I get that it really wasn't CA's fault, but refusing to refund someone their money is BS. That makes me never want to buy anything through CA because I know they wont have my back incase something goes wrong. They will just pass the buck. The fact is, OP is giving his business directly to CA by purchasing something on their site and giving them the money. It is shitty business practice to take someone's money and then put any problems back on the manufacturer if there are any with zero responsibility that you listed that item and sold that item on your site. Protecting your customers should be priority number one. If you do that, then you get bragged about, and more people buy from you.
Just to reiterate what I've read elsewhere. CA already has replacement RS9's in hand and documents have already been sent to affected customers.
OP is pissed at the use of the word Entertain and acting as if he's being robbed, he's still getting the product he paid for. It's even generous of them to entertain the option of him canceling and allowing him to use the money on a different product they carry. If you canceled an order with them they charge restocking fees, seems they would not charge him those fees for essentially canceling his order and changing the item.
Again this is an issue created by the ATF and Resilient NOT CA
CA Only recently found out about the RS9 issue as stated by one of their employees, they weren't sitting on that info to make people wait longer. There would be zero benefit to them by doing this.
I'm not taking any sides to this, but based on other comments in this thread, not only was this a known issue to at least some R9 customers since early january as evidenced by a thread in this sub, there is at least one smaller dealer that posted saying they were aware and pulled their forms for these cans weeks ago.
>There would be zero benefit to them by doing this.
They get to keep the money by using the amount of time passed as an argument to not refund. Literally what the op is complaining about. I highly doubt an outfit as big as CA did not know about the issue weeks ago when customers and other dealers did. By waiting weeks to act they can say sorry due to policy it is too long since initial purchase to refund, but if they had pulled the forms earlier like other places, the customer would have a stronger argument for a refund.
This is all assuming everything played out as above and op and others in the thread aren't straight up lying. Either way, if truly CA didn't know and they did indeed act as soon as they were aware, then I would question doing any future business with them just on that fact alone, since others seemingly knew and acted on it sooner.
There does appear to be email evidence that CA has known of this since at least Jan 8th. It would be frustrating to me if I had one that was known bad to have been left in the dark for those 30 days when instead I could have either known and asked for an in stock item instead or been given the option to wait for a replacement RS9 to arrive and start over. It wouldn’t be the end of the world and I wouldn’t go full scorched earth on anyone, but it would be frustrating. CA took the “act like it didn’t happen and stall till replacements are here” approach which seems amateur.
Bruh they would “Entertain” using the funds for something else? Fuck those nerds, you bought the can and have (assumingely) not shot it, and its still registered to them, so there is absolutely no reason they shouldnt give you a refund. Ive heard bad things abt CA before but now im definitely never using them
I'm genuinely baffled when I see high praise of capital armory. My experience with them was dogshit. Unless you just sit in your moms basement and can't leave your home and NEED your suppressor shipped to your doorstep, shop anywhere else
Not an NFA issue but I ordered a Stribog bolt from HBI in Jan 2022, found out three days ago that it won’t fit. HBI is giving me a refund after two years of this bolt sitting in the original box it was mailed in.
Last few times I bought cans, there has been a lot of paperwork created. Then there is the certify process. So you want them to eat all of that because the ATF and Resilient fucked up? Are they getting it fixed so you still get a can? That seems to be the case from everything here. Also, 4 months of waiting? Oh, no. People are spoiled on wait times now. Used to you would have to wait a year or more.
4 months of waiting for a decline and starting all over again sucks. Any which way you slice it, that sucks ass.
Edit: essentially 4 months of straight wasted time.
Credit card chargeback.
I had a vendor pull some shit. I laid it out, either refund IN FULL or I’ll file a chargeback.
My money was returned on card less than 24 hours later.
I've dealt with CA quite a bit and have had nothing but good experiences with them. I would want to know the full story beyond there was a declined form 4.
Typical Reddit, the manufacturer and the ATF have an issue that doesn’t involve my dealer and wasn’t their fault in any way… but its 150% on the dealer to take care of the manufacturer and ATFs problem. Pitchfork squad unite!!! This dealer should take responsibility for a problem they aren’t responsible for and didn’t create…. Fuck the dealers!!!! Burn them at the stake… the audacity to not take the financial hit for someone else… god, dealers fucking suck and its 1,000,000% always their fault because this is reddit and thats what we do…. Please commence the downvotes… 👍
I used capital armory for my last can and regretted it terribly, my local range uses SS and allows me to shoot it while I wait. Capital Armory was very slow and has no option to have the can shipped to another dealer without you still having to pay them $200. If you get it shipped elsewhere they make you use that $200 as an in store credit
Well I just bought an adaptor for my r9 from them since they had it the cheapest, but I'll be hitting that unsubscribe button on the emails now. I don't want to "entertain" using them for anything in the future based on this.
Damn I have business with the Willi law firm next week and was going to drop in… that’s now a hard NO. I’ll stick with my 07/02 in north Texas even if a bit more expensive as I know I will get taken care of promptly and properly.
It boils down to you sat on your thumbs wasting 4 months of a clients time despite knowing it will be declined. Then you had the gall to say “you’d entertain a refund” … is the ownership of CA that ignorant or and im being very nice … just that stupid? If I were the client in this case the chargeback would have been done already plus a call to paxtons office.
Texas might be a one party state but I’d tread very carefully there (including transcripts) unless you want to end up spending way more than the transaction profits in legal bills… just ask cheaper then dirt.
Well, thanks you yall in this sub and the wonder guy treating his paying customers like shut. I'll be sure NOT to recommend CA and make sure I talk to anyone I know that's thinking about using CA to use SS or my LGS. I have been in customer service mgmnt roles for 10+ years with little and big companies, and what they are doing is what runs a business into the ground. ESPECIALLY in this digital age we live in.
So just so I understand correctly. You purchased a can 4 months ago, it gets denied because of a mistake Resilient made, Capitol will apply your purchase price to a new can or possibly a different can, and you're pissed?
How long are you assuming they "sat on" the RS9 issue information? When was the serial number information even released?
I’ve never bought from CA but was thinking about buying from them a few days ago, I will move forward with buying a couple suppressors from CA sooner 🤙
Ok but why? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a negative sentiment about CA until resilient screwed the pooch. Are you just bandwagoning or do you have a story you want to share with the class to back up why they suck. Granted what they’re doing here, not offering a refund is fucked but I’m curious what their reasoning is for it.
There’s plenty of stories of them having subpar customer service. The bandwagon exists for a reason, people learn from others’ mistakes and avoid getting burned too.
I’m not waiting to get burned to figure out why everyone else said to not touch the hot stove. Maybe you’re a slow learner but the rest of us will avoid the issue entirely.
That’s incredibly poor CS to create the initial issue, fail to address it in a timely manor then make the buyer in turn use the $$$ as a store credit. Just issue the refund.
As far as I’m aware, they didn’t cause this issue and they take a loss by issuing refunds on behalf of the guys who fucked it up. Guess I’m a slow learner lol.
I love the stark dichotomy of you and your followers downvoting me for saying they’ve had repeated issues with CS but the post has numerous upvotes.
It’s pretty obvious their company CS model blows, I’m not sure how it’s the customers fault for them not better vetting third party software processes. It’s super easy to take your business over to any other SOT vendor and avoid this entirely.
“Me and my followers”
Dude I’m one guy with one opinion and I’ve got 5 cans now through CA and never had a single problem, so I asked what yours was. Seeing as you don’t seem to have your own story, I can assume you’ve just taken someone else’s anecdotes as fact. Which is fine that’s your prerogative but don’t make it my problem. If you’re so concerned about your updoots why not head over to r/news and mention *insert country* bad and reap some rewards.
Lol when it comes to hating CA he claims there is a "bandwagon", when he gets downvoted because CA actually has a pretty solid reputation its because you and your fake followers lol. Dude is obviously an Olympic level mental gymnast.
They should fulfill your RS9 purchase. Then fire you as a customer. It wasn’t their fuck up.
Giving you a chance to use the funds on something else seems like pretty good CS to me.
I think I’ll continue giving them way too much of my money lol
They have already said that they have new serials. By supplying a can, they are still holding up their end of the deal. They didn't cause the issue, but they too are sitting on a shit sandwich. The way I look at it is, if you were to order something custom, you would not get all of your money back if you cancel. There has already been time put in to file this form. They won't get that time back and neither will you. I can see a partial refund or as was suggested to put the money to something else.
OK, get the goo out of your eyes first. Then read where I said, "**the way I see it**" referring to the time that has been put in. I am not understanding why you are taking this so personally.
This is an issue that could have been avoided months ago had capital armory been proactive instead they want to play games I would contact your financial institution and talk with the fraud department of how this can be addressed.
Withholding funds from a customer over an issue that Capital Armory themselves created with assistance of one of their products or services and then declining refund of money because "it's been to long" is not a good excuse, Yes I understand it's outside of the normal 90-day window but this is something that could have been addressed a couple of months ago and that wouldn't have been a problem but capital Armory wants to play sketchy ass games
That would be a chargeback not fraud. The fraud department of your bank handles cases of someone stealing your identity and making unauthorized charges, not vendor misconduct. Vendor misconduct is handled through a chargeback which is bank arbitration.
You're absolutely correct in the fraud department does deal with chargebacks due to goods and services not being received I think under visa it's code 12.1 and 4853 for mastercard card :goods and services not provided
Extenuating circumstances, merchant was aware that transaction could not be processed due to vendor violating federal law and refused refund
At no point in my original statement did I say that it was fraud however the fraud department does handle it because goods and services were not provided
Vendor issues are handled via chargeback. I’m not arguing with you, I’m telling you how it works as I have actual experience with both issues. This post is NOT fraud as OP made a legitimate purchase and the business is handling the purchase. Failure to deliver on time and refusing refunds is not fraud. This is a customer dissatisfaction issue and refund issue.
Fraud is criminal deception and doesn’t apply to either of the topics of this post.
You int read to good at Capital One, Bank of America, u.s Bank... Places that I've previously worked those chargebacks for services not received are transferred to the fraud department it's not fraud and neither of my post did I say it was fraud they are simply handled by the fraud department because of the code that is used for the chargeback 🤦🤦🤦🤦
I worked in the fraud department at boa and at Capital 1 this was probably 1/3 of the cases we dealt with
I don’t think you understand well. Idgaf about where you work. My comment is in the context of how it’s handled by the customer, not what department handles what internally in the bank. I’ve never called the fraud department to initiate a chargeback, I’ve always had to do it through the claims department. This isn’t about internal bank workings as I don’t work there and internal workings of the bank doesn’t matter in this conversation.
Costco can refund you, your money for used mattress and these assholes can’t give you your money. This is exactly why I am picky with whom I do business with.
After reading everything here it sounds like OP was upset and rightfully so but it’s not Capitol Armory’s fault. It’s on resilient and he’s offered to make it right. Also, capitol armory has the replacement suppressor which is what he initially wanted plus it sounds like they offered to throw in some free stuff/discounts which they actually don’t have too.
If OP had some balls say yes and release the call or transcript. Him not wanting this leads me to believe he’s not telling the whole truth while capitol armory is defending themselves and willing to provide evidence. Everyone on here getting salty about that is a moron in my opinion.
I already decided I would never use CA again after the one can I purchased from them was a slow and confusing process. This situation definitely reinforces that sentiment. We have many other options now to deal with this consumer unfriendly business.
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ARE YOU NOT “ENTERTAINED”?!?
😂
I’m pretty entertained tbh
Before the ocm5 came out and aem5s were selling aftermarket for 2k+, I called over to capitol because I wanted to purchase an aem5 and wanted to ask some questions about full payment. They told me that if they dont get anymore AEM5s that they would keep my money and put it towards another can, like what the fuck? LMAO
Yikes
What a shit show this whole RS9 thing is. Is the ATF picking on Resilient or is Resilient really the only one out here reusing serial numbers?
The rules do say manufacturers have to use an “individual serial number not duplicated on any other firearm”. I assume we’ve seen that not enforced in the past, but it’s more common practice for makers to use serials with a prefix letter or something specific to that model. Like, you could still have a serial number “R9-0001” and a “R7-0001” for the first firearm of two different models. I can’t think of any firearm manufacturers that *don’t* unique-code sn’s. Colt has prefixes that tell whether it’s a custom shop/frame/sporter, etc. Each Ruger model begins with a certain prefix that's not shared by another model, etc. Gemtech, each serial started with “S”(silencer), then year, then an individual SN.
But this is reddit, its not resilients fault they can’t follow the rules, its CAs fault…
I might be out of the loop here, but what was THEIR problem here? I was under the impression it was an issue between Resilient and the ATF, not CA and I saw only yesterday an update from Capitol Armory that an issue had occurred ([https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/1axb7sj/comment/krmwdcf/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/1axb7sj/comment/krmwdcf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)) Maybe I'm missing some info on what happened a month ago?
OP is insinuating that CA knew about the problem a month/several weeks before form 4s started getting disapproved, and they chose not to be proactive and communicative with customers. My shop had 6 cans affected by the same issue, and I knew what was going on a month ago. If a little shop like mine knows what was going on, there's no way CA didn't too. I pulled our affected submitted form 4s three weeks ago 🤷🏻♂️
In 3.5 years I have processed about 300 form 4s. In that time I have made 3 mistakes. 1 for a regular, who just shrugged it off. 1 for a first time buyer, who I gave a free piston to. 1 for a multi-suppressor owner, who I offered a muzzle device that he declined. Everyone makes mistakes, how you move past those mistakes is what matters. I'd rather lose $50 on a goodwill part than lose a customer for life.
Same, when I was first starting out as a home based FFL/SOT, I made mistakes on paperwork for my first 3 cans, caused the customers denials after a couple months, for me, it was an expensive choice at the time, but I comped them their tax stamps back as an apology, Since then all 3 of the people affected are on their 5th+ can and have bought them all through me. Customer service is the life blood of a business, even more so in the firearms industry because mistakes and manufacturing defects happen, it's a lot of moving parts, but treating your customers right will end up with your business growing and your customers coming back. This isn't to you specifically, but figured I'd give my two cents.
I also had a 4 month denial on an RS9 ordered through bauer precision. Same day was reassigned a new serial number. Reach out to [email protected] about this. They sent me something cool to make up for the issue
I see two sides here. First, CA has their return policy clearly stated. Either you’re ok with that at time of purchase or not. But it is their policy to make and you went forward with the purchase. The other side is this is a unique situation on an item they typically stock. Just take care of the customer and move on. It’s a real short sighted approach. Honestly, it’s things like this where they have the choice to treat a customer well or stick it to them because the rules they made say they can that make or break a company for me. I want the guy I’m buying from to treat me like my best interest is the goal and that’s clearly not what happened here. Knowing CA will stick to their return policy regardless of any unforeseen circumstances makes me want to look elsewhere.
Between this and their employee talking about releasing customer recorded phone calls: I’m 100% never using this service or recommending it. Reached out to capitol armory and that are okay with what their employee did. Wild.
Bro what. I'm out of the loop but that's fucking insane.
They’re deleting their comments now. Because the customer said no, the employee said he’ll write the transcript of the call and post it here. Wild. https://preview.redd.it/yfnl2cnlfekc1.jpeg?width=1105&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9b534b67c146d4ec84317a79fdd09a96c90db7e
/u/Toastfps what the fuck.
“With your permission” seems like a key part of that statement.
Wild. I’m currently living in a non NFA state but when that changes you can bet your buttons I’ll be actively avoiding shopping from CA entirely.
I'm confused here though, they sold something that the ATF is now saying cannot be sold. So OP isn't after return. OP is after a refund. CA owes either the money or a sellable ownable product.
Right and I believe CA’s answer is that they have and are processing a replacement now and since they are working with a replacement, it would count as a return. At least that was the info I had gathered from the other thread on this. If they both refuse to get a replacement RS9 and start the process over as well as refuse to refund that would be horrendous. I was under the assumption they have an RS9 with a valid SN to restart the form 4 process and don’t want to go the refund route. Regardless, if the paperwork hasn’t started for the replacement can, just refund it and move on.
Could your bank do a charge back?
Pretty sure that’s where it’s going end up
You're running out of time if that's where this is heading. Most banks give cardholders 120 days to dispute a charge. Some places like AMEX allow 180 I wanna say.
Already filed thinking exactly this. Their social media guy(s)/NFA people calling me a liar and talking shit was something else😂. There’s no coming back from all that.
No one was talking shit to you, we defended ourselves against false accusations. I’m still not shit talking you. I’m happy to share your recorded phone call here for everyone to listen to with your permission.
Yea, I'm sure all this will really help your case and definitely not further shit on your reputation.
Asked for his permission, he said no so I’m respecting that.
Thats not respect, that's federal wiretapping laws.
TX, along with most states, are single party consent for recording and releasing calls. I unfortunately learned this because of a vindictive ex. They could legally release the call. At least if the recorded the call in their TX office.
Yeah it would depend on where op is. The laws pertain to both states. If both in TX then yeah they could release it, one party state. My state is 2 party thankfully.
Holy shit. I was sorta on the fence of this situation, but reading what you just wrote made sure I will never buy anything through you all. Absolutely baffling you’d ever write something like this. This is your alls customer service / social media team? I want to believe this is someone not associated because of how wild this is.
And that’s totally up to you man, you’re going to shop where you want. I respect that. I offered to put the cards on the table to call out someone that’s spreading false information. I’m not sharing any of his information and I wouldn’t share a customers information without their express written consent as I and we respect and protect everyone’s privacy and we’re obligated to do so. My main issue is the OP saying we told him things that no one said. The resilient issue sucks. I’m sympathize 100% with that. I’ve been in the customer end for similar situations and disapprovals. It sucks, and we always work with people to make sure they’re happy with their purchase in the end. It should be fair game to address people when they’re spreading false information about what we’ve told them.
This is much more reasonable than your other comments. You all dropped the ball with your initial approach.
I understand that and I’ll agree with you. It’s hard to dictate over text meaning and emotion. I’m under no circumstance trying to be an asshole to the dude. I don’t know how to convey that what he’s saying is false, No conversations conveyed that we delayed this resilient stuff by any means. We got the new cans in today, within ten minutes of UPS dropping them off I made sure he had a new docusign and ready to roll. Going through with it I’d still get him extra goods and something to save In the future. I’m not mad at the dude or anyone here. I’d still LIKE to get him taken care of but that opportunity is likely gone.
If he wants a refund why not just give it to him? It’s obviously not his fault, and insisting on payment without being able to provide the goods or services as originally agreed is fraud…. This is going to cost you so much more in the end …SMDH
Why not just give the refund in the first place to make him happy and it all goes away before negative publicity hurts you?
This seems reasonable to me
lol Toast, put the shovel down.
Yessir
And now threats from these fine folks. You can’t share my phone call or any of my personal information. Hopefully my credit card company resolves this issue with your company. If people were posting on this sub about this problem in the middle of last month, how would you not know about it..? You and your cronies must stalk this forum 24/7. https://preview.redd.it/xhkur0cz0ekc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d9a9697340c14173f9541bdefe69497c8fa3bf7
FYI I can still read your email through the attempt to black it out.....
That’s a screenshot of someone else’s post
Oh is it? They didn't completely black out their info then.
Haha touché
Lol, redacted fail.
I want to hear this phone call now. I want to see who is lying.
Check your chat
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Wow. You are absolutely doubling down on making your company look like shit. Fascinating
wide quack aback materialistic tie fly wild bedroom governor person *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Don’t remember. Something about because the customer won’t allow the call to be released, he’ll type it out on a transcript.
Bro is pulling a dead air. Really magnificent work. Let’s see how it plays out
Well, you just made it absolutely certain that I'll never spend a single dime with you. Are you the owner, and if not, why the fuck hasn't the owner fired you for engaging in such a stupid fucking no-win scenario. Like, goddamn, dude...
I reached out to CA and they agree with what their employee did
Sometimes you get in so deep the only way out is through, I guess?
They already know they’re people’s last choice for this kinda thing. I think they realize what their market is and they don’t care.
Could have spent that energy taking care of your customer but this is what you chose instead. That says a lot.
Yeah... I have 16 stamps, queuing up 3 more in the next week or two. And who knows what the future will bring. But uhh... wow. Definitely going to actively avoid even browsing CA's website now. That's definitely a choice you've made.
Wow. Guess I’ll be sticking to SilencerShop and DealerNFA then…
is it worth it to do the nfa trust via silencer shop?
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thankyou
That's a terrible bank then. I did a charge back after a year for something I bought from over seas, and was in contact with the business for the entire year being strung along. My bank refunded me the cash the same day.
That's just what seems to be the norm unfortunately ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Which bank were you using?
.
Or small claims court they’d have to show up in person and likely in your state lol 😆 People don’t use this enough to get money back from companies who have screwed us customers over. Often times companies will pay just to not show up and settle the claim.
That's petty AF, and I love it
If companies just did the right thing and took responsibility as the makers of life saving equipment and PPE seriously we wouldn't have to resort to such tactics. How hard is QC? How hard is standing behind your product. There are entire subreddits dedicated to solving problems manufactures fail to disclose to consumers. r/Hyperion_Rattler_Saga
CA isn't the mfg, you're pissed about a problem they didn't create or know about.
They're the retailer and are ultimately responsible for making sure that they are offering a saleable product to their customers.
How can they predict the future or know about a situation that had not yet been revealed to them?
By your logic, no retail store should allow refunds on faulty products?
The fact that retail stores allow refunds on faulty products is a grace that they choose to provide. At the end of the day, Walmart didn't make the faulty product and would be well within their rights to tell you to take it up with the manufacturer who made the faulty product. That's what warranties are for. At the end of the day, it's just easier for them to give you the refund than to take the time to explain that to every single dissatisfied (and likely disgruntled) customer-and they are large enough to do that. I'm not defending CA here, I'm just explaining that at the end of the day, your faulty Xbox is actually Microsoft's responsibility, not Walmart's.
Not sure what you mean, his can has already been replaced.
You almost always have to do small claims in the defendant's jurisdiction. If they have an office in your location, you can claim that's a valid jurisdiction. But not if you're doing business with a mail order company.
Capitol armory has companies set up in every state they ship cans to.
I’m more in line with just reporting companies to the feds: the FTC. The charges for committing trade crimes will be far higher than what my costs were AND I will still get my refund lol. I don’t have to pay court filing fees and if they’re an FFL committing trade crimes, the ATF might catch wind.
Charge backs can be devastating for a business, especially smaller ones. And much quicker and easier for the consumer too.
Unfortunately they have a short limit on how long you can do them from purchase date.
This is the route I’d take. Fuck em.
They act like they’re the only shop. The place has gone downhill over the years
Honestly, i haven't seen any reason to use Capitol Armory's "services".
For me its cheaper than doing a Form3 to a local shop since all my FFLs charge $75+ to transfer NFA items. They make the process easiest imo since i can certify my item at home over the phone
SilencerShop transfers should be free if you have a powered dealer. $75 is crazy
I don't like doing business with strange FFLs I have no rapport with, like the first can I bought with the only place in the area at the time with a Kiosk, and just had an overall subpar experience, including not being able to conjugal the can even after that shop told me I could use their range for doing that. They weren't dicks but it definitely soured it a bit. That shop got fucked by the ATF on papers a couple years later, but once bitten twice shy. I like sticking with the FFL I'm good with.
My buddy did that route and it took him 3 weeks for the FFL and SilencerShop to get his can certified. No thanks. 10min phone call with Capitol Armory is my choice
The wait is functionally the same (if things go well). SilencerShop has to form 3 it to the dealer at the beginning of the process. Whereas Capitol armory has to mail the Cleo notification at the end. Capitol armory keeps it all in house so there’s definitely less variance.
No, not the Form3 taking them 3 weeks. 3 weeks to get the Kiosk working for my buddy. The can was already at the FFL. Form3s wait times vary weirdly, so at least with CA the CLEO notification and everything is more consistent timing
This happened to me, too. My ffl was having kiosk issues and eventually left SS. They were a top rated dealer too. It caused a huge headache.
Took me well over 2 months to certify with SS. Not exactly user friendly.
Took me about 3. Kept getting told the atf software was down.
My main issue was the can not showing up on the form. Dealer tried to add it in manually a bunch of times, but the stupid SS software just crashed nearly every time. Its just annoying af to have to wait that long just to start the wait 😂
Geez and i thought my buddy had it bad
Yeah… it sucks. I had ordered on 12/6 and just certified last weekend.
Mine charges 150. It really sucks. I also had a bad experience with SS. Getting a freaking tube shouldn't be so hard
That's cheap not crazy, sot near me charges $150, the other charges $200
$200?!? God damn. I’ve bought 2 dealer inventory, 5 SilencerShop, and 3 capitol armory and have never paid a transfer fee. You guys are getting ripped off.
If you did the kiosk, you’re getting ripped off too. Doubly so if you did an SS kiosk form 1. That costs literally $50 for nothing at all.
Do they charge for the kiosk now? I did my first form 4 5ish years ago and it didn’t add any cost to digitize my prints. I rolled my own for my 4 SBRs though. That $50 fee is bullshit.
It’s around those prices in South Florida as well, $100 and $150 being the most common for NFA transfers depending where you go.
Same here. $150 is the cheapest with the rest at $200. I found one that charges $250
I have used them for multiple cans and it is extremely user friendly, though not particularly fast. Your mileage may vary..
Just dispute the charge with credit card company, done. You have proof they refused to provide the product or refund you the money. They can argue their internal policies all they want but unless you actively signed off on an agreement during the purchase that’s says “in the event the product cannot be provided to the customer, we reserve the right to provide a credit towards another purchase but will not offer a refund ” then they are screwed. They can’t just put that in a policy somewhere and expect you to find it in your own. They can in fact provide a refund at any time for any amount. Even if you never purchased anything from them. They just need your CC info. Generally they cannot do an automated refund as most CC systems wipe the card data for security reasons within 30-90 days. They can still do it manually though
Here is the backstory on the RS9 issue… The ATF approved them on the original Form 2 (9 months ago), hundreds of Form 3s and even some form 4’s. They then contacted me the week after shot show to inform me that they were invalidating these serial numbers and that all had to be destroyed. Since i was notified, i have reached out to every dealer with the known serials to withdrawl these form. This did not happen in a day, let alone in a week. I am one individual having to email 250 people with contact info i do not have. These cans were sold through distribution and direct to dealers. So most of my time was searching for contact information on people i has never spoken with. I started from serial 1 and went up from there, so you can imagine there was a delay between 1 and 167 for example. In some cases the ATF moved faster than dealers could react. In larger shops most of their systems are automated for daily operations and paperwork filing. This being a one off incident that has never happened before, it could have thrown a major wrench in their plans. Which would result in a delay compared to a small shop that has to notify one customer. Since this issue has been in the public eye, i have had many NFA dealers and manufacturers reach out to me directly to tell me that they have done the same exact thing we have done in the past (same prefix on two different models) without an issue and that we are just the ones that the NFA division designed to crack down on. To show how inconsistent the NFA division is, i can tell you that the same people that are telling us these need to be returned and destroyed are still approving these on form 4’s. Just for them to be later forfeited to a local ATF field office. So regardless if you get an approval or a disapproval the ATF wants that can destroyed. The first question i had when we were notified was what about wait times? will the customer have to start all over? can these be expedited? How can these be invalidated after you have already appproved them on multiple trasnfers? The response i got was… “Hey we shouldnt have approved them, thats our fault.” “The customers will have to start over with a new can.” Thats the worse thing they could have told me. The last thing i want to do as a small business owner is let a customer down. At the end of the day im not going to sleep at night knowing i disappointed someone from a mistake i made. To try and make up for this mistake we are offering 50% off as many suppressors as you would like from our website. I understand some people will want nothing to do with that as this has been a bridge burner for them. Being a small on man company i wish we could do more to alleviate the stress we have caused but we are not at the size to do so. As all of these RS9’s affected made up all of the RS9 sales for 2023. This was unexpected for us and we apologize for the inconvenience this has caused. If you have any questions please email [email protected] I am a one man show over here so all of your responses arent coming from a customer service rep or some social media guy. I hope this can shine some light on the situation and ill be as open as i can with the situation if you have any questions. Im sorry we failed to deliver on this. - Tyler Reeves
Thanks for the 50% off code Tyler, I used it on a Putnik, Jessie’s girl and a trilug mount. Can’t wait to to bring em all home!
Just sent you an email
The replacement RS9 just hit my desk in the last 5 minutes. You will have a docusign in your email in the next 5 minutes.
Why does this sound like it wouldn’t get resolved until he posted on Reddit and blasted you?
He can blast all day, he has the right to do that. I’m not upset that he’s doing so. However we also have the right to defend ourselves and point out blatant lies and false accusations. He didn’t give us a chance to resolve anything. This is all In the last 48 hours. Everyone else is getting docusigns for their replacement silencers today too. We go out of the way to take care of people affected by random shit. Usually in the form of extra merch, discounts, shipping or something else. He didn’t give us a chance to do that. Resilient is also offering 50% off everything on their site for people affected.
Nice. You’ve finally done the bare minimum for your customer that gave you money. Great work. Now go back to passively threatening him about how you have his phone calls recorded
>CA waited for this RS9 Form 4 to decline instead of withdrawing it when they became aware of THEIR problem at least a month ago Who's problem? Who fucked up here exactly? Did CA manufacture a suppressor and not adhere to NFA rules? Or did CA sell you someone elses suppressor and they fucked up?
What I gather is this. OP bought a Resilient RS9 from CA. CA submitted the Form 4. Resilient screwed up and used duplicate serial numbers on their cans. CA became aware of this and knew that the Form 4's were not going to clear the ATF. Instead of pulling the the form 4 request and refunding people money, they waited 30 more days for the ATF to decline the form 4 and then told OP that it was too late to get a refund but he could use that money as credit for something else in their shop. OP asked for a refund when this was exposed 30 days before and CA said no and waited, it was a total 4 month wait for the decline. Edited for accuracy lol.
I hate to say it but CA isn't in the wrong here. It's not like THEY filled the forms out wrong. If they filled out the forms wrong, then I would agree but that's not what happened. OP needs to be mad at Resilient and request they compensate for a new form. CA is doing the right thing by offering a credit when they've done nothing wrong. Either way OP got fucked. Resilient needs to make OP whole for THEIR mistake. Resilient should have issued a directive for any dealer to refund customers who purchased a suppressor regardless of purchase date. If Im CA, Im going to be telling people to talk to Resilient about refunds. ---- It would be the same thing if the suppressor broke from a QC issue. OP can't be mad at CA who sold them the faulty item. You'd be mad at who made it.
The fact that CA wont refund his money does not sit well with me. I get that it really wasn't CA's fault, but refusing to refund someone their money is BS. That makes me never want to buy anything through CA because I know they wont have my back incase something goes wrong. They will just pass the buck. The fact is, OP is giving his business directly to CA by purchasing something on their site and giving them the money. It is shitty business practice to take someone's money and then put any problems back on the manufacturer if there are any with zero responsibility that you listed that item and sold that item on your site. Protecting your customers should be priority number one. If you do that, then you get bragged about, and more people buy from you.
They stated they would "entertain" the idea of a credit. So there's a chance OP is just F'ed out of his money.
Just to reiterate what I've read elsewhere. CA already has replacement RS9's in hand and documents have already been sent to affected customers. OP is pissed at the use of the word Entertain and acting as if he's being robbed, he's still getting the product he paid for. It's even generous of them to entertain the option of him canceling and allowing him to use the money on a different product they carry. If you canceled an order with them they charge restocking fees, seems they would not charge him those fees for essentially canceling his order and changing the item. Again this is an issue created by the ATF and Resilient NOT CA
CA Only recently found out about the RS9 issue as stated by one of their employees, they weren't sitting on that info to make people wait longer. There would be zero benefit to them by doing this.
I'm not taking any sides to this, but based on other comments in this thread, not only was this a known issue to at least some R9 customers since early january as evidenced by a thread in this sub, there is at least one smaller dealer that posted saying they were aware and pulled their forms for these cans weeks ago. >There would be zero benefit to them by doing this. They get to keep the money by using the amount of time passed as an argument to not refund. Literally what the op is complaining about. I highly doubt an outfit as big as CA did not know about the issue weeks ago when customers and other dealers did. By waiting weeks to act they can say sorry due to policy it is too long since initial purchase to refund, but if they had pulled the forms earlier like other places, the customer would have a stronger argument for a refund. This is all assuming everything played out as above and op and others in the thread aren't straight up lying. Either way, if truly CA didn't know and they did indeed act as soon as they were aware, then I would question doing any future business with them just on that fact alone, since others seemingly knew and acted on it sooner.
There does appear to be email evidence that CA has known of this since at least Jan 8th. It would be frustrating to me if I had one that was known bad to have been left in the dark for those 30 days when instead I could have either known and asked for an in stock item instead or been given the option to wait for a replacement RS9 to arrive and start over. It wouldn’t be the end of the world and I wouldn’t go full scorched earth on anyone, but it would be frustrating. CA took the “act like it didn’t happen and stall till replacements are here” approach which seems amateur.
This is apparently a CA witch hunt thread. Doesn't matter what they did, burn them at the stake.
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lol @ 35% restocking fee on a fucking can. Actual robbery.
That's the price you pay for fantastic customer service.
It’s more of a deterrent / loss reduction strategy. Returns abuse can heavily harm businesses.
> a **$95** refiling fee will be charged to cover our time refiling your forms. This part is also bonkers.
Bruh they would “Entertain” using the funds for something else? Fuck those nerds, you bought the can and have (assumingely) not shot it, and its still registered to them, so there is absolutely no reason they shouldnt give you a refund. Ive heard bad things abt CA before but now im definitely never using them
you must own some Banish cans huh lol
I do not. I have YHM, Sig, CGS, and Hux cans
No longer buying from CA. Thanks.
I'm genuinely baffled when I see high praise of capital armory. My experience with them was dogshit. Unless you just sit in your moms basement and can't leave your home and NEED your suppressor shipped to your doorstep, shop anywhere else
Notify your credit card company that you paid in full for a product and don't have it 4 months later. Let them fight for you.
Not an NFA issue but I ordered a Stribog bolt from HBI in Jan 2022, found out three days ago that it won’t fit. HBI is giving me a refund after two years of this bolt sitting in the original box it was mailed in.
Man the ATF must hate Resilient, first the Jessie’s girl then the RS9 that sucks
Last few times I bought cans, there has been a lot of paperwork created. Then there is the certify process. So you want them to eat all of that because the ATF and Resilient fucked up? Are they getting it fixed so you still get a can? That seems to be the case from everything here. Also, 4 months of waiting? Oh, no. People are spoiled on wait times now. Used to you would have to wait a year or more.
4 months of waiting for a decline and starting all over again sucks. Any which way you slice it, that sucks ass. Edit: essentially 4 months of straight wasted time.
Credit card chargeback. I had a vendor pull some shit. I laid it out, either refund IN FULL or I’ll file a chargeback. My money was returned on card less than 24 hours later.
I've dealt with CA quite a bit and have had nothing but good experiences with them. I would want to know the full story beyond there was a declined form 4.
Seems like everytime i decide against ordering a suppressor from them i dodge a bullet.
Typical Reddit, the manufacturer and the ATF have an issue that doesn’t involve my dealer and wasn’t their fault in any way… but its 150% on the dealer to take care of the manufacturer and ATFs problem. Pitchfork squad unite!!! This dealer should take responsibility for a problem they aren’t responsible for and didn’t create…. Fuck the dealers!!!! Burn them at the stake… the audacity to not take the financial hit for someone else… god, dealers fucking suck and its 1,000,000% always their fault because this is reddit and thats what we do…. Please commence the downvotes… 👍
I will never buy anything from them after seeing this
I used capital armory for my last can and regretted it terribly, my local range uses SS and allows me to shoot it while I wait. Capital Armory was very slow and has no option to have the can shipped to another dealer without you still having to pay them $200. If you get it shipped elsewhere they make you use that $200 as an in store credit
Buy something else and return it
Well I just bought an adaptor for my r9 from them since they had it the cheapest, but I'll be hitting that unsubscribe button on the emails now. I don't want to "entertain" using them for anything in the future based on this.
Damn I have business with the Willi law firm next week and was going to drop in… that’s now a hard NO. I’ll stick with my 07/02 in north Texas even if a bit more expensive as I know I will get taken care of promptly and properly. It boils down to you sat on your thumbs wasting 4 months of a clients time despite knowing it will be declined. Then you had the gall to say “you’d entertain a refund” … is the ownership of CA that ignorant or and im being very nice … just that stupid? If I were the client in this case the chargeback would have been done already plus a call to paxtons office. Texas might be a one party state but I’d tread very carefully there (including transcripts) unless you want to end up spending way more than the transaction profits in legal bills… just ask cheaper then dirt.
Issue a charge back from your card
Ez charge-back clap-back
I brought them an F1 for engraving and they engraved it crooked. The response "well it's hard to engrave straight". Screw those guys.
Well, thanks you yall in this sub and the wonder guy treating his paying customers like shut. I'll be sure NOT to recommend CA and make sure I talk to anyone I know that's thinking about using CA to use SS or my LGS. I have been in customer service mgmnt roles for 10+ years with little and big companies, and what they are doing is what runs a business into the ground. ESPECIALLY in this digital age we live in.
Reach out to your credit card company, you purchased a specific item. They didn't fulfill your request. Let your CC company take a swing
Dang I have seen a lot of sketchy stuff from them lately. I will definitely stay away from them.
I used a credit card for everything, then charge it back if they drop the ball
charge back, fuck em
So just so I understand correctly. You purchased a can 4 months ago, it gets denied because of a mistake Resilient made, Capitol will apply your purchase price to a new can or possibly a different can, and you're pissed? How long are you assuming they "sat on" the RS9 issue information? When was the serial number information even released?
Where should I shop for suppressors then?
Unless you paid cash, hit your credit card company and get your money back.
LOL that’s not how that works Capitol Armory. They can’t keep money and refuse a refund. I’d get something else then do a charge back.
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I’ve never bought from CA but was thinking about buying from them a few days ago, I will move forward with buying a couple suppressors from CA sooner 🤙
I would! I’ve purchased 3 and never had any issues… I snagged a AAC Titan QD for $900…
[удалено]
Isn’t that literally what this is about?
Capital Armory needs to go the way of Blockbuster Out of business
Ok but why? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a negative sentiment about CA until resilient screwed the pooch. Are you just bandwagoning or do you have a story you want to share with the class to back up why they suck. Granted what they’re doing here, not offering a refund is fucked but I’m curious what their reasoning is for it.
There’s plenty of stories of them having subpar customer service. The bandwagon exists for a reason, people learn from others’ mistakes and avoid getting burned too. I’m not waiting to get burned to figure out why everyone else said to not touch the hot stove. Maybe you’re a slow learner but the rest of us will avoid the issue entirely. That’s incredibly poor CS to create the initial issue, fail to address it in a timely manor then make the buyer in turn use the $$$ as a store credit. Just issue the refund.
As far as I’m aware, they didn’t cause this issue and they take a loss by issuing refunds on behalf of the guys who fucked it up. Guess I’m a slow learner lol.
I love the stark dichotomy of you and your followers downvoting me for saying they’ve had repeated issues with CS but the post has numerous upvotes. It’s pretty obvious their company CS model blows, I’m not sure how it’s the customers fault for them not better vetting third party software processes. It’s super easy to take your business over to any other SOT vendor and avoid this entirely.
“Me and my followers” Dude I’m one guy with one opinion and I’ve got 5 cans now through CA and never had a single problem, so I asked what yours was. Seeing as you don’t seem to have your own story, I can assume you’ve just taken someone else’s anecdotes as fact. Which is fine that’s your prerogative but don’t make it my problem. If you’re so concerned about your updoots why not head over to r/news and mention *insert country* bad and reap some rewards.
Lol when it comes to hating CA he claims there is a "bandwagon", when he gets downvoted because CA actually has a pretty solid reputation its because you and your fake followers lol. Dude is obviously an Olympic level mental gymnast.
They should fulfill your RS9 purchase. Then fire you as a customer. It wasn’t their fuck up. Giving you a chance to use the funds on something else seems like pretty good CS to me. I think I’ll continue giving them way too much of my money lol
Regardless if it was their issue, they can’t hold your money hostage
They have already said that they have new serials. By supplying a can, they are still holding up their end of the deal. They didn't cause the issue, but they too are sitting on a shit sandwich. The way I look at it is, if you were to order something custom, you would not get all of your money back if you cancel. There has already been time put in to file this form. They won't get that time back and neither will you. I can see a partial refund or as was suggested to put the money to something else.
He didn’t order something “custom” he ordered something in stock. You are just meat riding this company for some reason, and I’m not sure why
And they’re fulfilling his order. Sounds like they’re even entertaining OP using his money towards a different item.
“Entertaining” it sounds douchey af to talk that way about a customers money
OK, get the goo out of your eyes first. Then read where I said, "**the way I see it**" referring to the time that has been put in. I am not understanding why you are taking this so personally.
I’m not taking anything personally
They’re not. Seems like they’re going to deliver what OP paid for, and might be giving him an opportunity to apply his money to something else.
Reading comprehension not your strong suit?
lol
lol
This is an issue that could have been avoided months ago had capital armory been proactive instead they want to play games I would contact your financial institution and talk with the fraud department of how this can be addressed. Withholding funds from a customer over an issue that Capital Armory themselves created with assistance of one of their products or services and then declining refund of money because "it's been to long" is not a good excuse, Yes I understand it's outside of the normal 90-day window but this is something that could have been addressed a couple of months ago and that wouldn't have been a problem but capital Armory wants to play sketchy ass games
That would be a chargeback not fraud. The fraud department of your bank handles cases of someone stealing your identity and making unauthorized charges, not vendor misconduct. Vendor misconduct is handled through a chargeback which is bank arbitration.
You're absolutely correct in the fraud department does deal with chargebacks due to goods and services not being received I think under visa it's code 12.1 and 4853 for mastercard card :goods and services not provided Extenuating circumstances, merchant was aware that transaction could not be processed due to vendor violating federal law and refused refund At no point in my original statement did I say that it was fraud however the fraud department does handle it because goods and services were not provided
Vendor issues are handled via chargeback. I’m not arguing with you, I’m telling you how it works as I have actual experience with both issues. This post is NOT fraud as OP made a legitimate purchase and the business is handling the purchase. Failure to deliver on time and refusing refunds is not fraud. This is a customer dissatisfaction issue and refund issue. Fraud is criminal deception and doesn’t apply to either of the topics of this post.
You int read to good at Capital One, Bank of America, u.s Bank... Places that I've previously worked those chargebacks for services not received are transferred to the fraud department it's not fraud and neither of my post did I say it was fraud they are simply handled by the fraud department because of the code that is used for the chargeback 🤦🤦🤦🤦 I worked in the fraud department at boa and at Capital 1 this was probably 1/3 of the cases we dealt with
I don’t think you understand well. Idgaf about where you work. My comment is in the context of how it’s handled by the customer, not what department handles what internally in the bank. I’ve never called the fraud department to initiate a chargeback, I’ve always had to do it through the claims department. This isn’t about internal bank workings as I don’t work there and internal workings of the bank doesn’t matter in this conversation.
Costco can refund you, your money for used mattress and these assholes can’t give you your money. This is exactly why I am picky with whom I do business with.
Buy something else with the credit and get a refund on that order 😂
Dispute it with the credit card company.
Just do a charge back
After reading everything here it sounds like OP was upset and rightfully so but it’s not Capitol Armory’s fault. It’s on resilient and he’s offered to make it right. Also, capitol armory has the replacement suppressor which is what he initially wanted plus it sounds like they offered to throw in some free stuff/discounts which they actually don’t have too. If OP had some balls say yes and release the call or transcript. Him not wanting this leads me to believe he’s not telling the whole truth while capitol armory is defending themselves and willing to provide evidence. Everyone on here getting salty about that is a moron in my opinion.
I already decided I would never use CA again after the one can I purchased from them was a slow and confusing process. This situation definitely reinforces that sentiment. We have many other options now to deal with this consumer unfriendly business.
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