I don't see any reason why you should be afraid. I saw the coverage of yesterday's protest, and it was quite peaceful. They even invited a gun control advocate to come up and speak their peace with no issue.
That’s good. I’m glad it’s peaceful but I still wouldn’t take the risk for my kids to be around a bunch of people patrolling the area wearing rifles. All it would take is one crazy 2nd amendment person… and some of them aren’t all there.
Saying I don’t want my kids around a bunch of people that I don’t know trying to make a statement with guns is not bizarre.
Albuquerques violence is insane. I will not stop there for gas after a bad experience. My brother lives there and I wish he didn’t. Teens are running the streets packing guns. Couple weeks ago a 14 year old killed a 23 year old. The 14 year old and his buddies had stolen her car, she was trying to retrieve it. They wrecked the car and all went running except the one with the gun. He shot and killed her.
When I was growing up there was a curfew for teens in Albuquerque. I think we should bring that back. And strict penalties for violence. When they passed bail reform I think this created an issue we need to look at and fix. Violent offenders should be held instead of released.
You're afraid of law abiding protesters because there's criminal activity in the city? Seems to me, with so much violence in Albuquerque, it would be SAFER to be around all the good guys carrying guns.
>The governor is also considering a mass castration order to deal with the rape crisis.
So, there was that one time ...
>Sexual battery settlement
>
>In December 2019, a former campaign staffer and spokesperson, James Hallinan, accused Lujan Grisham of sexual battery. According to Hallinan, the incident took place during a staff meeting in 2018. By his account, **Lujan Grisham poured a bottle of water on his crotch and then slapped and grabbed his crotch through his pants while laughing.** He said the incident happened "in front of everybody".
>
>In April 2021, it was publicized that Lujan Grisham and her gubernatorial campaign, while denying the allegations, had reached a $62,500 settlement with the law firm representing Hallinan. The payment was made in monthly installments of $12,500 from November 2020 to March 2021.\[65\] Her political committee paid another $87,500 over six months, bringing the total payout to $150,000.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle\_Lujan\_Grisham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Lujan_Grisham)
Holy shit.
So her view of civil rights really is broken.
There's no way the Biden doj is going to do a damn thing about this. The only other people who could touch her are the local da in Albuquerque and the state attorney general. Now the local DA has already said they're not going to enforce the governor's order at all. But it's a big jump from there to arresting the crazy chick.
>But it's a big jump from there to arresting the crazy chick.
It wouldn't be a big jump if the D.A. did their job ..
In 2021 New Mexico abolished qualified immunity.
>The new law provides:
>
>In any claim for damages or relief under the New Mexico Civil Rights Act, no public body or person acting on behalf of, under color of or within the course and scope of the authority of a public body shall enjoy the defense of qualified immunity for causing the deprivation of any rights, privileges or immunities secured by the bill of rights of the constitution of New Mexico.
https://www.jurist.org/news/2021/04/new-mexico-governor-signs-law-eliminating-qualified-immunity/
That means that any government official who deprives someone of their rights, privileges, or immunities secured under the bill of rights of the Constitution of New Mexico does not have qualified immunity.
The people with AR-15s and plate carriers may not be going about things the best way, but I guarantee that they're not the ones that will kill your children outside of a baseball stadium or commit a drive by shooting that results in your family being harmed in any way.
yes....these guys don't talk bs all the time and are not looking for any excuse to live out their fantasies......I feel very safe.
/s in case it wasn't thick enough
Like I said, they're definitely not going about things the right way, and I am not defending their actions. I was just stating that they are not the ones that are going to cause the problems that prompted the order from the governor. By all means, keep your children safe at any cost and in any way that you see fit.
How is exercising a right not the right way ?
An analogous situation might be if someone were attacking gay rights, and gay couples came out to protest, would your advice to them be to not be "quite so gay in public" to manage perceptions ? I mean that sort of shows you weren't really comfortable with the idea to begin with, and feel the need for people to be apologetic.
The whole point of the protest was to demonstrate the right being used, .. because it's a right.
I'm sure they would say that if you aren't comfortable with it, the solution isn't to hide and pretend you don't support it, .. it's to GET comfortable with it. I'm sure gay couples would feel the same way ... don't hide to make normies more comfortable, be out in the open and let them GET comfortable seeing you.
There are political arguments and then there are threats. This implied threat is being reported to Reddit, above this sub’s moderators, and law enforcement.
Now she gets impeached.
Edit: The fact I'm getting down voted shows how the liberal mindset works. It's a hive mind. If you don't agree she should be impeached you are part of the problem and should be ashamed. Giving away your liberties our founders and soldiers fought for in blood. Shame.
*Which make up the vast majority of the state's population in our democratic country
But even Democrats don't fuck with guns to unconstitutional levels.
She's on her own with this decision
It's very sad. These are the type of people the government wants. Turn in your rights for protection, then the real tyranny starts. Any tyrannical government starts with disarmament. Look at Venezuela, early Russia.
If they really cared about public health, they should declare obesity a public health epidemic. It kills nearly a million people each year, but NOOO we need to fatten up the public
Obesity and alcoholism/drug addiction. Those 2 things alone plague NM more than anything else. There needs to be easily available options for treatment that don't require inpatient stays, because most people can't just take 30 days off and still keep their job... so they just continue to spiral down until something irrevocable happens and they're forced to quit and lose everything in the process... I am a former alcoholic and had to go through this conundrum myself. Luckily I found a doctor that would treat me outpatient at home, so I didn't crash and burn and lose my job. Most don't have that luxury.
Booze plays a part in more deaths than guns by a large factor. Would bet that a large bit of gun suicides also include booze. Where’s the ban on all drinking?
The country is watching, please react accordingly. This test of power cannot and should not stand. Everything in our power as citizens should be utilized to very clearly send a message that our rights mean something, or they won’t.
After two consecutive terms, she can run again if she sits out at least one term. New Mexico law does not limit the total number of terms that a governor can serve beside no more than two in a row.
More likely she would have tried for the Senate maybe? Or go for an appointed Federal position like Secretary of State or something...all that is gone now. No chance.
Did Keller and MLG have a falling out recently?
Last week (two weeks ago maybe?) she blamed Albuquerque’s crime rate on Keller’s perceived inaction. Now Keller apparently refuses to enforce this order (not that it would be his responsibility to do so anyway) that is clearly aimed at Albuquerque specifically. When did the two of them start having beef?
Maybe Keller sees how power-hungry she is. When an elected official blatantly states that their constitutional oath is not absolute, that's how you know they shouldn't be in office.
I wondered the same thing. They've never been exactly chummy, from what I can tell, but now it seems like there's some out-and-out hostility going on there and I wonder where it's coming from? It's not a great thing for the state to have the two of them in some kind of beef.
Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham had to shell out $150,000 for her inappropriate behavior when she grabbed a staffer's penis. Now, it seems she's got her sights set on grabbing guns – and the consequences are bound to hit her wallet even harder.
100%. I live with my uncle due to falling back on hard times myself. We go out together sometimes for food drinks whatever, sometimes we get home and a holster and is pistol his instantly getting pulled out and put on the table and oof what a relief, other times nothing. You would never know by looking at him either he doesn't look like a dude who's big into firearms or anything he looks like a random dude he conceal carries smartly and he even fools me, sometimes he has his pistol other times he doesn't.
You can't enforce a no conceal carry policy for x days or whatever because the people who are doing it properly you don't know they are in the mall the gas station the restaurant wherever and you have no idea. The only way to do away with conceal carrying legally is to make it illegal, but even then the dudes, and women, who are smart about it, will still be doing it and you'll have no idea they are packing.
As a largely symbolic gesture, this backfired badly: it screams of hands-up, *I’m-all-out
of-ideas* desperation, and she’s largely been a pragmatic and solutions-oriented Governor.
Seizing on this misstep is unfortunately how Red Waves begin, even in NM.
The crazy thing is there are so many laws in the books that can be enforced better to actually make an impact. But she doesn't want to do that, so you end up with this craziness.
I'd prefer a Gary Johnson type. I'd love to see the Libertarians have a little say again. There's plenty of us in the state... we've just been shoved aside for the 2 party circle jerk, and everyone else is too busy attacking each other to bother listening to us.
I'm surprised it has been so hard for us... we hold positions both sides like, and are a lot more likely to actually try to find a middle ground with people instead of just ramming things down people's throats just to say "Ha! Take that you (insert slur here)!" just to claim a "win". 🤷♂️
I feel as though New Mexico is a libertarian state at its heart. It's Albuquerque and Santa Fe that make it "liberal." As a rural New Mexican, I can tell you that the political environment of Albuquerque and Santa Fe do not represent me or my neighbors.
I think it really is libertarian by it's nature, imo... most of us like our space and just want to do our own things without having someone dictate to us what we're allowed to do if that thing isn't hurting anyone. I don't live here because I want the government supporting me or running my life. I want them out of it as much as possible. I don't like either side of the uniparty and just want them to leave me alone, but they both are insisting on shoving their brand of bullshit on everyone else, and that just does not sit well with me. I just want to be free to live life as I see fit, and I believe everyone else should be able to as well, not forced into ideological compliance with whatever party has power at that moment. Who the fuck are they to tell me how to live?
*Cartman voice*: [I'll do what I want!](https://i.imgflip.com/gcke3.jpg)
>As a rural New Mexican
That's literally true everywhere in the United States, politics in the last 30 years had devolved to simply being rural vs. urban.
County-by-county election map ... this is at the heart of every election now, including the balkanization of Oregon where lots of the people in Oregon want to join Idaho.
[http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/election-2016-county-map.png](http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/election-2016-county-map.png)
The blue areas are urban counties and cities.
>I'm surprised it has been so hard for us
It always comes down to "throwing your vote away". Libertarians are always in the position of having to choose between making a statement (and losing), and possibly letting the election slide to the greater of the two evils, or choosing the better of the two evils.
Yea, it sucks. I honestly think we offer better solutions for both sides, where everyone gets a little of what they want and can compromise on the rest. Keeping things smaller and more local helps immensely with that. We seem to be the only ones willing to talk to both sides and not be at their throats while trying to find a happy medium that fixes their grievances without actively trying to oppress everyone else.
Not happy about this either but do you really think the republican isn’t infringing on your rights even more? Because I don’t, what I do in my own home is of no business to anyone except the republicans party apparently. I hope MLG sees the writing on the wall and stops this stupid idea before it gets worse.
Republicans seem to be much more interested in protecting the "written-in-stone" constitutional rights. Yes I don't agree with them on a lot but the Democratic party lately doesn't hold any respect for it. And let's be real, issues like abortion and whatnot could likely have been codified into the Constitution by now if Democrats weren't so dead-set on using it as a political weapon.
She won't see the writing on the wall if people don't turn away from her party as a result of her actions. I think that the Republicans will at least protect my explicit constitutional rights, whereas the Democrats in this state will not.
“I don’t think it will be a political loss for (Lujan Grisham) to be overturned,” Levinson said. “She can say she did everything she could but was stopped by the courts.
Is this person referring to the overwhelmingly blue courts at all levels of NM State government? Not a good look to have a favorable court dunk on your gun control proposition. Might mean it's complete BS.
Personally, I can't wait till SCOTUS gets this and they strike down ALL laws against firearms, affirming that "shall not be infringed" means just that. Thank your governor for me!
It’s a guaranteed fail. All I can think of is that she know this, and she is just using it to make some big statement because after next year she is term limited out and maybe has some larger aspirations. She just wants to get her name out there.
Incarcerated for what? She hasn’t done half the shit trump and Desantis have pulled. Overall she’s been a good governor, she just way overstepped with this 2nd amendment challenge.
She violated her oath to the constitution and tried to suspend the 2A. I don’t care how good she’s been, that gets negated when you try to violate people’s rights because she thinks that constitutional rights “aren’t absolute” (her words not mine).
Violation of her oath of office. Best if we go ahead and have a committee find any other individuals in office that tried to violate our 2nd amendment rights, too. Lock them all up.
Even if this was passed as a law rather than an executive order it’d still be unconstitutional. The contents of the order are the problem. The fact that it was an executive order rather than a law is the cherry on top.
Sounds all good. Whoever thinks that some psycho who unloads 17 rounds into a car filled with children and women is going to follow a "health order" is just as crazy as she is. And I voted for her, how sad.
My question is, did she really think anything good was going to come of this? When voters and officials from your own party turn on you and straight up say you did something illegal, how do you recover from that?
She even said herself during a press conference that she didn’t believe the criminals would pay any attention to this.
To me, this is openly admitting that you’re targeting law abiding citizens. If you already know it won’t stop criminals, there is only one other reason to do it.
Imagine if we banned homosexuality because it created “a public health emergency” via aids.
I get that a certain blue party had a field day with emergency covid powers and barring folks from funerals while they ate at fancy restaurants and kept booze shops open but the constitution matters folks.
Congrats tho, as an independent voter myself it’s hilarious that the left handed the right the perfect factual example of “they are coming for your guns” ahead of an election season, with an illegal order that even David Hogg disapproves of lmao. 🤦♂️
She did it because she's out of terms as governor, so this is her audition/performance for Biden. She's hoping to get appointed to his cabinet if he wins a 2nd term, and she doesn't really care how it will affect New Mexicans in terms of encouraging the state to vote red, etc.
>She did it because she's out of terms as governor, so this is her audition/performance for Biden.
A pretty interesting take, I never thought of this.
>She's hoping to get appointed to his cabinet if he wins a 2nd term
you mean WHEN he wins a second term!
Lololololol. He's not going to win a second term, and the universe willing, some mainstream republican won't either. We need new blood and new ideas in public offices instead of these old fossils that have to be dressed by a caregiver and wheeled into the senate chambers (Diane Feinstein), have multiple instances of neurological issues during press conferences (Mitch McConnell), exhibit narcissistic personality disorder (Donald Trump), or show obvious signs and symptoms of dementia like Poppa Joe.
Well, I don't necessarily think that it's a given that he will win a 2nd term. I've never voted republican in my life, but Biden has been objectively terrible. He has spent his entire term chasing war, ignoring the needs of the people who are struggling, pretending he solved the (still ongoing) pandemic, and breaking 98% of any and all campaign promises he ever made (which I don't believe he ever intended on keeping). It is also pretty clear that he does in fact have some degree of dementia.
Maybe she should spend more time disarming criminals. And not trying to attack people trying to protect their lives .she didn't get rid of her armed security detail. I guess she believes only she deserves to be safe..
"Officer who could, personally, be sued for enforcing an unconstitutional order that the governor herself says will have no effect on criminals...decided not to enforce it."
I went to law school with Sam Bregman. He was an idiot then, and apparently the years haven't made him any wiser.
Nobody asked Sam Bregman to enforce anything. Enforcement of the temporary suspension of carry permits in select locations was entrusted to the State Police, not Sam. It will be enforced with tickets and fines.
The executive order in question doesn't call for arresting anyone or seizing their guns, so it doesn't need Sam or any district attorney to enforce it.
State Police office can write tickets for fines, just like they do for motor vehicle violations. And they can appear in court and prosecute those fines if contested. If you've ever got a ticket from a State trooper you know exactly what I mean and how it works.
*Sam's input on the matter was neither needed or wanted.*
But true to form, he gave it anyway. I'm glad to hear that Sam will continue to focus on gun crime. But maybe he should *do his fucking job* rather than make political speeches and do something about those gun crimes on his watch.
If you see someone open-carrying when and where that permit has been revoked, call the State Police: not Sam or anyone at any level or department of Bernalillo County.
Bregman's done considerably less posturing than Raul Torrez. I have distinct memories of meeting Torrez in law school and the impression I came away with is that his head is so far up his own ass he could count the precise number of cheerios he's had for breakfast. Maybe Bregman's a clown, but he's doing his job more than Torrez ever did.
As for his opinion that it's unconstitutional, it's not good when your closest allies aren't pulling punches. Maybe his input wasn't necessary, but it's certainly damaging, and that means a lot.
I defer to your greater knowledge of Torrez ... and I've certainly never heard the self-absorption of our "political" colleagues described quite so eloquently.
>Nobody asked Sam Bregman to enforce anything. Enforcement of the temporary suspension of carry permits in select locations was entrusted to the State Police, not Sam. It will be enforced with tickets and fines.
In one hand you say nobody is asking him to prosecute...
>State Police office can write tickets for fines, just like they do for motor vehicle violations. And they can appear in court and prosecute those fines if contested. If you've ever got a ticket from a State trooper you know exactly what I mean and how it works.
On the other hand, you say that they contest these tickets and they will be prosecuted in court...
I guess it is easier to call someone an idiot than to admit that you have no blooming clue what you are talking about. You went to law school yet you don't know that the DA's office handles prosecuting cases locally? I would get your money back.
>Nobody asked Sam Bregman to enforce anything. Enforcement of the temporary suspension of carry permits in select locations was entrusted to the State Police, not Sam. It will be enforced with tickets and fines.
>
>The executive order in question doesn't call for arresting anyone or seizing their guns, so it doesn't need Sam or any district attorney to enforce it.
Are you sure that's true ?
I mean I'm no expert, I don't know much about concealed carry licenses, but my understanding is that if the people don't have those licenses that they are facing jail time for carrying a gun illegally. Like, prison type stuff. I would assume that if concealed carry is not allowed, that it's like not having a license.
Edit, yeah, I just went and looked, under New Mexico 30-7.2-2 if you are carrying a pistol unlawfully it's a Misdemeanor, and under 30-7.2-3 the handgun is seized. Looks like 6 to 12 months in jail.
Dunno if they changed the laws, but open carry in a bank used to be perfectly legal.
I conceal today, but I used to work for a place that I had to do a very large cash deposit every day. My boss insisted we open carry when we had that bag of cash, and the banks never minded.
Am I sure? Frankly no.
As a lawyer it makes me uncomfortable to be trying to analyze the legal implications of a fucking press release. If there really is an "action plan", like the press release says, it hasn't been published and I have some severe reservations about the binding legal effect of a fucking press release.
But that didn't stop Sam Bregman from mouthing off about how it's "unconstitutional", and it hasn't stopped news media from here to Timbuktu from reporting on it, and it's not going to stop me now.
You are to be commended for looking up the statutes, but you're looking in the wrong places.
All I can tell you is that if the Governor's press release is accurate, we are talking about the temporary *suspension* of permits, not about illegal possession of firearms.
(Think about it like this: your two year old's driver's license can't be *suspended*. Your two year old doesn't *have* a driver's license.)
The Governor's Executive Order, 2023-130, which is readily available online, doesn't say anything about the suspension of open carry and concealed carry permits. So that's no help.
All we have in terms of text is a press release date September 8, 2023 which states, in pertinent part:
>The action plan includes a suspension of open and concealed carry laws in Bernalillo County, temporarily prohibiting the carrying of guns on public property with certain exceptions. Exceptions include for licensed security guards and law enforcement officers. Citizens with permits to carry firearms are free to possess their weapons on private property (such as at a gun range or gun store), provided they transport the firearm in a locked box, use a trigger lock, or some other mechanism that renders the gun incapable of being fired.
I have many questions. For example, how is "public property" defined? If anyone can point me in the direction of an actual ***text*** of this **"action plan"**, I'd be grateful.
The Executive Order does give us one more clue.
The Governor claims authority under something called the "Riot Control Act". See NMSA 1978, Section 12-10-16. This gives the Governor powers to issue emergency health orders.
The Governor won legal challenges the Governor's authority to issue these kinds of orders during the COVID-19 panic. Reading those cases will give the legally astute a road map for why this gun order is shaped the way it is.
But the short version is: challenges to the Governor's authority to close businesses to enforce quarantines *failed*. She won those battles already. That's why she's so confident doing this now, despite pushback from slime balls like Bregman and Medina.
He successfully defended a number of high profile cases in NM. How exactly do you define idiot?
I have a attorney friend who talks like you, I cannot understand how some attorneys can just ignore one simple fact and base a entire argument thread out of that intentional ignorance. It reeks of bullying to me, and I'm sorry, but I'm not falling for it. I suspect few folks these days will. The days of puffing up your shirts and making wide pronouncements are over. We are not nearly as ignorant as you think.
Now you are going to reply in some serious legal tones that sound really impressive. But he's the district attorney for Bernalillo county, he does have a valid position in this conversation regardless of your opinion. I've had these arguments with my attorney friend to death on similar topics. And my reading of Bregman's statement didn't sound like political speech at all, it sounds like a operational statement of a appointed/elected official. He not only has the right to make the statement, he has a OBLIGATION to do so, whether we agree or not. If you don't like it, don't vote for him, simple as that.
Please remember, State Police like other New Mexico public officials no longer have qualified immunity. Good luck to them. I'm going to pop some popcorn and find a comfortable chair to watch this train wreck.
If a citation is written in Bernalillo County, it is up to the Bernalillo County DA to prosecute it. The tickets will be dismissed even if one of Michelle's stormtroopers writes it.
Wrong. The Bernalillo County DA isn't involved in the process for fining people who violate the Governor's orders under PHERA.
Here's the civil penalties law that the Governor has invoked for fining people who violate the emergency order suspending open carry an concealed carry permits.
>12-10A-19. Enforcement; civil penalties.
A. The secretary of health, the secretary of public safety or the director may enforce the provisions of the Public Health Emergency Response Act by imposing a civil administrative penalty of up to five thousand dollars ($5,000) for each violation of that act. A civil administrative penalty may be imposed pursuant to a written order issued by the secretary of health, the secretary of public safety or the director after a hearing is held in accordance with the rules promulgated pursuant to the provisions of Section 12-10A-17 NMSA 1978.
Here's the administrative rule for hearings on the fines. Note: no Bernalillo County involvement:
[https://www.srca.nm.gov/parts/title07/07.001.0030.html](https://www.srca.nm.gov/parts/title07/07.001.0030.html)
This procedure was challenged during the COVID pandemic when the Governor used it to threaten fines against businesses that stayed open contrary to her orders. Here's the New Mexico Supreme Court's ruling on that back in 2020.
https://casetext.com/case/grisham-v-reeb
Governor won.
If it's purely civil, it has no teeth. If all they can do is right a citation Ave issues a fine, then they have done nothing to limit one's liberty. The fine will be a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things.
I'm a huge gun rights supporter, and I love that the governor did this.
I can't wait for this to get slapped down and help establish even more precedent for individual liberty.
And since it's really a toothless civil claim that the police already said they won't enforce... no one even has to put their liberty in jeopardy to knock it down.
And as if it couldn't get any better, gun rights groups are gonna use this to show that "the libruls really are goin' after us law'biding folks". We'll be fundraising off of this for at least a year. And bringing it up evvvverrryyy time someone says "no one wants to take your..."
But wait! It gets even better. Because of this stupid stunt there is gonna be a court ruling that shreds the concept of constitutional overreach for "public health emergencies". So next time the news gins up the COVID hysteria, we'll have a court ruling to point to while we tell those lizards to eat shit!
This is awesome 😎!
I think I'm gonna send the governor an edible arrangement.
I think it’s going to backfire and deliver some additional electoral victories to the state GOP, slowing any future gun law reform, climate laws, and civil liberty protections.
The dialogue is set in the constitution. It isn't up for debate. Your attempt to reframe it as a fluid issue which warrants 'dialogue' is just an insidious form of soft creep and nothing more. If you want stronger gun laws to make yourself feel safer, move to baltimore or chicago, both of which have much stricter gun laws.
See this is what the country is up against when it comes to guns. People are getting shot every couple of days in Abq… and if someone even mentions starting dialogue about shootings being out of control people start whining that it’s their constitutional right to live in an environment that not only enables this sort of senseless violence but encourages it.
Then they mock people for “wanting to feel safer”… like wanting children to not get shot is some sort of weakness. It’s despicable.
Maybe it has something to do with your dialogue always targeting law abiding citizens while summarily failing to prosecute violent offenders or letting them out early? Cashless bail for homicide or rape suspects for instance.
Until you take a tough-on-crime stance, there can be no dialogue when it comes to Constitutional rights.
She tried to suspend a constitutional right based on her personal feelings. Where exactly is the “dialogue?” You get mocked for wanting to “feel safer” because you personally will trade freedom and liberty for the assurance of security.
We've been trying to start the dialogue on how to curb gun violence, but your side thinks it's racist to point to statistics that show a certain demographic is responsible for a majority of these murders and shootings.
I feel safe in Albuquerque but I also live in a great part of town. I just made comment on perhaps her strategy. If you’re older than 45 if you don’t admit the number of guns available to society have gotten out of control and that’s a bad thing you’re really not being truthful to yourself. There will come no good of humans living in close proximity, armed to the teeth. None.
It’s a scenario the Founding Fathers could have never comprehended.
The problem with this argument is that the law only reduces the number of lawful guns while doing nothing to decrease illegal guns (and historically - increasing them because the bad guys are emboldened and were already carrying illegally).
I have been shot at once in the US, in Philly. Gonna guess the 17 year old looking old kid wasn't legally carrying.
What blows my mind is all the “oh shucks, she shouldn’t have done that” I see. If this was any other Amendment in the Bill of Rights, this wouldn’t even be a disagreement on whether or not it was grounds for impeachment.
The paranoid sites are claiming this is a big test to help them harvest social media for 'compliance research' such as they are publicly doing now with DHS usage of ai to link social media and location info to ssn#s.
This is rank and file political ignorance / negligence, not treason.
I've supported MLG for a long time, I am genuinely shaking my head over this one... this is just such a stupid move.
Yes, she got national attention. No it's not good attention.
Same and same. I generally think she's pretty smart. This just looks like a dumb knee-jerk reaction, and that never advances a conversation forward in a positive way.
She mentioned all the horrible youth victims of gun violence as her rationalization. Is there any evidence those shootings were carried out with legal firearms?
I have said two things about MLG: The first is that she is by far the most competent governor we've in my lifetime. The second, she reminds me of Maude without the raw sexual magnetism of Bea Arthur. Her actions Friday undermine the first statement, and underline the second.
I don't think she anticipated this much pushback from within her own base. Maybe not ignorance, perhaps incompetence / negligence is the better label for this.
Maybe she's playing 4D chess and in 6 months we'll all be handing in our guns.
Again this madness has to stop! She is a nut jib obsessed with power! She needs to be stopped! All New Mexico residents deserve better leadership! Both major parties have failed us all its time for a new generation with real solutions to problems to take over. This is just stupid and violation of our rights as citizens of the United States!
It just sucks that, especially with a very-blue state like NM, there can't be a unified front on issues like this. Like, this could've been something for the Mayor, the governor, the DA, the AG, senators, representatives...everyone...to have a unified voice on and come up with a plan.
AFAIK no one was calling on the governor to do anything. This was all her doing to attract attention for a big, bold decision that doesn't really help our state, which is a shame because I think it's going to lead to more calculated decision that won't really help our state in the future...
Sucks. Sucks that our leaders here don't seem to care about rational choices and solutions. Even going back to the whole CYFD deal where she struck down the Legislature-backed plan to overhaul that and create a civil rights division, just because she wanted to do it her way, and still hasn't done much...meanwhile NM is 50th for child welfare and tons of horrible neglect and abuse and tragic death cases keep popping up.
Maybe read about the constitution and why they created it. And what happened in places where they have the strictest gun rules like baltimore and chicago.
[удалено]
They were doing that in Albuquerque as a kind of protest ?
Yes, protest, and some may be attempting to bait a lawsuit.
I mean, it's free money the moment its enforced. Anybody who has a gun would be a damned fool not to open carry and hope for an arrest to be made.
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Fucking great. I guess I’ll just not let my kids go anywhere until this settles down. Thanks everyone!
I don't see any reason why you should be afraid. I saw the coverage of yesterday's protest, and it was quite peaceful. They even invited a gun control advocate to come up and speak their peace with no issue.
That’s good. I’m glad it’s peaceful but I still wouldn’t take the risk for my kids to be around a bunch of people patrolling the area wearing rifles. All it would take is one crazy 2nd amendment person… and some of them aren’t all there.
This is a bizarre statement.
Saying I don’t want my kids around a bunch of people that I don’t know trying to make a statement with guns is not bizarre. Albuquerques violence is insane. I will not stop there for gas after a bad experience. My brother lives there and I wish he didn’t. Teens are running the streets packing guns. Couple weeks ago a 14 year old killed a 23 year old. The 14 year old and his buddies had stolen her car, she was trying to retrieve it. They wrecked the car and all went running except the one with the gun. He shot and killed her. When I was growing up there was a curfew for teens in Albuquerque. I think we should bring that back. And strict penalties for violence. When they passed bail reform I think this created an issue we need to look at and fix. Violent offenders should be held instead of released.
You're afraid of law abiding protesters because there's criminal activity in the city? Seems to me, with so much violence in Albuquerque, it would be SAFER to be around all the good guys carrying guns.
None of what your anecodotal evidence references supports your comment about the peaceful protestors being "crazy" or dangerous.
show me images of the police reports for those teens. I bet we find a pattern.
Trolls gonna troll.
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Agreed. This is what you get when you run your life of on emotions instead of using the thing between our ears every now and then.
Those aren't the people shooting people. That's the point of the protest and why this order is stupid as hell.
The governor is also considering a mass castration order to deal with the rape crisis.
>The governor is also considering a mass castration order to deal with the rape crisis. So, there was that one time ... >Sexual battery settlement > >In December 2019, a former campaign staffer and spokesperson, James Hallinan, accused Lujan Grisham of sexual battery. According to Hallinan, the incident took place during a staff meeting in 2018. By his account, **Lujan Grisham poured a bottle of water on his crotch and then slapped and grabbed his crotch through his pants while laughing.** He said the incident happened "in front of everybody". > >In April 2021, it was publicized that Lujan Grisham and her gubernatorial campaign, while denying the allegations, had reached a $62,500 settlement with the law firm representing Hallinan. The payment was made in monthly installments of $12,500 from November 2020 to March 2021.\[65\] Her political committee paid another $87,500 over six months, bringing the total payout to $150,000. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle\_Lujan\_Grisham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Lujan_Grisham)
Holy shit. So her view of civil rights really is broken. There's no way the Biden doj is going to do a damn thing about this. The only other people who could touch her are the local da in Albuquerque and the state attorney general. Now the local DA has already said they're not going to enforce the governor's order at all. But it's a big jump from there to arresting the crazy chick.
>But it's a big jump from there to arresting the crazy chick. It wouldn't be a big jump if the D.A. did their job .. In 2021 New Mexico abolished qualified immunity. >The new law provides: > >In any claim for damages or relief under the New Mexico Civil Rights Act, no public body or person acting on behalf of, under color of or within the course and scope of the authority of a public body shall enjoy the defense of qualified immunity for causing the deprivation of any rights, privileges or immunities secured by the bill of rights of the constitution of New Mexico. https://www.jurist.org/news/2021/04/new-mexico-governor-signs-law-eliminating-qualified-immunity/ That means that any government official who deprives someone of their rights, privileges, or immunities secured under the bill of rights of the Constitution of New Mexico does not have qualified immunity.
Which is *exactly* how it should be! At least they got that right. Police should be personally accountable and liable for their actions.
Well that's an executive order I can actually get on board with.
The people with AR-15s and plate carriers may not be going about things the best way, but I guarantee that they're not the ones that will kill your children outside of a baseball stadium or commit a drive by shooting that results in your family being harmed in any way.
yes....these guys don't talk bs all the time and are not looking for any excuse to live out their fantasies......I feel very safe. /s in case it wasn't thick enough
Like I said, they're definitely not going about things the right way, and I am not defending their actions. I was just stating that they are not the ones that are going to cause the problems that prompted the order from the governor. By all means, keep your children safe at any cost and in any way that you see fit.
How is exercising a right not the right way ? An analogous situation might be if someone were attacking gay rights, and gay couples came out to protest, would your advice to them be to not be "quite so gay in public" to manage perceptions ? I mean that sort of shows you weren't really comfortable with the idea to begin with, and feel the need for people to be apologetic. The whole point of the protest was to demonstrate the right being used, .. because it's a right. I'm sure they would say that if you aren't comfortable with it, the solution isn't to hide and pretend you don't support it, .. it's to GET comfortable with it. I'm sure gay couples would feel the same way ... don't hide to make normies more comfortable, be out in the open and let them GET comfortable seeing you.
Gay people being gay can’t shoot up a place w assorted weapons.
I trust their aim and judgment less than I trust APDs aim and judgement.
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There are political arguments and then there are threats. This implied threat is being reported to Reddit, above this sub’s moderators, and law enforcement.
What threat are you talking about? He didn’t mean he wanted to shoot them. He wanted to test the law and see where they took it. Grow up.
Thanks for doing that. We are down here in LC and would do the same.
All she's accomplished is making herself look weak She made an executive order and everyone is pretty much ignoring it.
Now she gets impeached. Edit: The fact I'm getting down voted shows how the liberal mindset works. It's a hive mind. If you don't agree she should be impeached you are part of the problem and should be ashamed. Giving away your liberties our founders and soldiers fought for in blood. Shame.
That liberal mindset is not indicative of New Mexico. Really just Albuquerque and Santa Fe.
*Which make up the vast majority of the state's population in our democratic country But even Democrats don't fuck with guns to unconstitutional levels. She's on her own with this decision
It's very sad. These are the type of people the government wants. Turn in your rights for protection, then the real tyranny starts. Any tyrannical government starts with disarmament. Look at Venezuela, early Russia.
Or the prelude to any genocide in the 20th century. To include the genocide of natives here in America.
If they really cared about public health, they should declare obesity a public health epidemic. It kills nearly a million people each year, but NOOO we need to fatten up the public
Obesity and alcoholism/drug addiction. Those 2 things alone plague NM more than anything else. There needs to be easily available options for treatment that don't require inpatient stays, because most people can't just take 30 days off and still keep their job... so they just continue to spiral down until something irrevocable happens and they're forced to quit and lose everything in the process... I am a former alcoholic and had to go through this conundrum myself. Luckily I found a doctor that would treat me outpatient at home, so I didn't crash and burn and lose my job. Most don't have that luxury.
That's just it. Politicians give zero care about the people. It's time that they were reminded that they serve us, not vice versa.
Booze plays a part in more deaths than guns by a large factor. Would bet that a large bit of gun suicides also include booze. Where’s the ban on all drinking?
>Where’s the ban on all drinking? The 1920's called and they said prohibition was a tough sell.
So was the war on drugs. Why would a war on guns carried by law abiding Americans be any different to national criminals?
I would settle for innectarined. Even inplummed. Inapricotted. Whatever.
We can only hope
The country is watching, please react accordingly. This test of power cannot and should not stand. Everything in our power as citizens should be utilized to very clearly send a message that our rights mean something, or they won’t.
This spells the end of any hope she might have had of reelection.
She’s term limited, I think.
After two consecutive terms, she can run again if she sits out at least one term. New Mexico law does not limit the total number of terms that a governor can serve beside no more than two in a row.
More likely she would have tried for the Senate maybe? Or go for an appointed Federal position like Secretary of State or something...all that is gone now. No chance.
Thank you.
No chance anyway
There were several hundred at old town.
Did Keller and MLG have a falling out recently? Last week (two weeks ago maybe?) she blamed Albuquerque’s crime rate on Keller’s perceived inaction. Now Keller apparently refuses to enforce this order (not that it would be his responsibility to do so anyway) that is clearly aimed at Albuquerque specifically. When did the two of them start having beef?
Maybe Keller sees how power-hungry she is. When an elected official blatantly states that their constitutional oath is not absolute, that's how you know they shouldn't be in office.
I wondered the same thing. They've never been exactly chummy, from what I can tell, but now it seems like there's some out-and-out hostility going on there and I wonder where it's coming from? It's not a great thing for the state to have the two of them in some kind of beef.
Seems like it. She said something similar a couple days ago. I wonder what’s going on.
Because honorable people have lines they wont cross based on Oaths they believe in.
Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham had to shell out $150,000 for her inappropriate behavior when she grabbed a staffer's penis. Now, it seems she's got her sights set on grabbing guns – and the consequences are bound to hit her wallet even harder.
How the hell is she in a public office after being found guilty of sexual assault?
Democrat state and she was the only Dem running
Civil settlement, not criminally prosecuted.
jfc
She’s a woman.
Women don't face consequences.
It was an idiotic move anyways. No one cares because if you conceal carry correctly no one ever knows!
100%. I live with my uncle due to falling back on hard times myself. We go out together sometimes for food drinks whatever, sometimes we get home and a holster and is pistol his instantly getting pulled out and put on the table and oof what a relief, other times nothing. You would never know by looking at him either he doesn't look like a dude who's big into firearms or anything he looks like a random dude he conceal carries smartly and he even fools me, sometimes he has his pistol other times he doesn't. You can't enforce a no conceal carry policy for x days or whatever because the people who are doing it properly you don't know they are in the mall the gas station the restaurant wherever and you have no idea. The only way to do away with conceal carrying legally is to make it illegal, but even then the dudes, and women, who are smart about it, will still be doing it and you'll have no idea they are packing.
As a largely symbolic gesture, this backfired badly: it screams of hands-up, *I’m-all-out of-ideas* desperation, and she’s largely been a pragmatic and solutions-oriented Governor. Seizing on this misstep is unfortunately how Red Waves begin, even in NM.
The crazy thing is there are so many laws in the books that can be enforced better to actually make an impact. But she doesn't want to do that, so you end up with this craziness.
We can only hope.
Here comes another Suzanna Martinez! Dammit.
Good
I'd prefer a Gary Johnson type. I'd love to see the Libertarians have a little say again. There's plenty of us in the state... we've just been shoved aside for the 2 party circle jerk, and everyone else is too busy attacking each other to bother listening to us.
I agree. I think we really missed a great opportunity with Karen Bedonie.
I'm surprised it has been so hard for us... we hold positions both sides like, and are a lot more likely to actually try to find a middle ground with people instead of just ramming things down people's throats just to say "Ha! Take that you (insert slur here)!" just to claim a "win". 🤷♂️
I feel as though New Mexico is a libertarian state at its heart. It's Albuquerque and Santa Fe that make it "liberal." As a rural New Mexican, I can tell you that the political environment of Albuquerque and Santa Fe do not represent me or my neighbors.
I think it really is libertarian by it's nature, imo... most of us like our space and just want to do our own things without having someone dictate to us what we're allowed to do if that thing isn't hurting anyone. I don't live here because I want the government supporting me or running my life. I want them out of it as much as possible. I don't like either side of the uniparty and just want them to leave me alone, but they both are insisting on shoving their brand of bullshit on everyone else, and that just does not sit well with me. I just want to be free to live life as I see fit, and I believe everyone else should be able to as well, not forced into ideological compliance with whatever party has power at that moment. Who the fuck are they to tell me how to live? *Cartman voice*: [I'll do what I want!](https://i.imgflip.com/gcke3.jpg)
>As a rural New Mexican That's literally true everywhere in the United States, politics in the last 30 years had devolved to simply being rural vs. urban. County-by-county election map ... this is at the heart of every election now, including the balkanization of Oregon where lots of the people in Oregon want to join Idaho. [http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/election-2016-county-map.png](http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/election-2016-county-map.png) The blue areas are urban counties and cities.
>I'm surprised it has been so hard for us It always comes down to "throwing your vote away". Libertarians are always in the position of having to choose between making a statement (and losing), and possibly letting the election slide to the greater of the two evils, or choosing the better of the two evils.
Yea, it sucks. I honestly think we offer better solutions for both sides, where everyone gets a little of what they want and can compromise on the rest. Keeping things smaller and more local helps immensely with that. We seem to be the only ones willing to talk to both sides and not be at their throats while trying to find a happy medium that fixes their grievances without actively trying to oppress everyone else.
I've voted pretty reliably blue since I was 18, and she just changed that.
Not happy about this either but do you really think the republican isn’t infringing on your rights even more? Because I don’t, what I do in my own home is of no business to anyone except the republicans party apparently. I hope MLG sees the writing on the wall and stops this stupid idea before it gets worse.
Republicans seem to be much more interested in protecting the "written-in-stone" constitutional rights. Yes I don't agree with them on a lot but the Democratic party lately doesn't hold any respect for it. And let's be real, issues like abortion and whatnot could likely have been codified into the Constitution by now if Democrats weren't so dead-set on using it as a political weapon.
She won't see the writing on the wall if people don't turn away from her party as a result of her actions. I think that the Republicans will at least protect my explicit constitutional rights, whereas the Democrats in this state will not.
One can only hope.
“I don’t think it will be a political loss for (Lujan Grisham) to be overturned,” Levinson said. “She can say she did everything she could but was stopped by the courts. Is this person referring to the overwhelmingly blue courts at all levels of NM State government? Not a good look to have a favorable court dunk on your gun control proposition. Might mean it's complete BS.
Or they're hoping it survives to Federal courts? Doesn't seem likely...
This is certainly going well.
No matter your position register and vote
Who the hell put this stupid idea forward? Insane.
Well then the people of New Mexico need to march on down to her house and perform a citizen’s arrest .
Good, mlg is a clown
I mean what is she even thinking? She’s smarter than doing this stupid ban. Just giving fuel to the GQP before another election.
“She’s smarter than doing this…” Apparently not.
Personally, I can't wait till SCOTUS gets this and they strike down ALL laws against firearms, affirming that "shall not be infringed" means just that. Thank your governor for me!
It’s a guaranteed fail. All I can think of is that she know this, and she is just using it to make some big statement because after next year she is term limited out and maybe has some larger aspirations. She just wants to get her name out there.
I hope she is incarcerated and given the worst punishment possible.
18 USC 242
Incarcerated for what? She hasn’t done half the shit trump and Desantis have pulled. Overall she’s been a good governor, she just way overstepped with this 2nd amendment challenge.
She violated her oath to the constitution and tried to suspend the 2A. I don’t care how good she’s been, that gets negated when you try to violate people’s rights because she thinks that constitutional rights “aren’t absolute” (her words not mine).
Violation of her oath of office. Best if we go ahead and have a committee find any other individuals in office that tried to violate our 2nd amendment rights, too. Lock them all up.
Right! She already proved she can pass the legislation legitimately. Why executive action?
Because she CAN’T pass the legislation legitimately. It’s against both the NM and US Constitutions.
Because it violates the state constitution. She’d need an amendment to get this passed.
Even if this was passed as a law rather than an executive order it’d still be unconstitutional. The contents of the order are the problem. The fact that it was an executive order rather than a law is the cherry on top.
Sounds all good. Whoever thinks that some psycho who unloads 17 rounds into a car filled with children and women is going to follow a "health order" is just as crazy as she is. And I voted for her, how sad.
My question is, did she really think anything good was going to come of this? When voters and officials from your own party turn on you and straight up say you did something illegal, how do you recover from that?
She even said herself during a press conference that she didn’t believe the criminals would pay any attention to this. To me, this is openly admitting that you’re targeting law abiding citizens. If you already know it won’t stop criminals, there is only one other reason to do it.
Good
Imagine if we banned homosexuality because it created “a public health emergency” via aids. I get that a certain blue party had a field day with emergency covid powers and barring folks from funerals while they ate at fancy restaurants and kept booze shops open but the constitution matters folks. Congrats tho, as an independent voter myself it’s hilarious that the left handed the right the perfect factual example of “they are coming for your guns” ahead of an election season, with an illegal order that even David Hogg disapproves of lmao. 🤦♂️
The importance of the AG being an elected official to balance the governor
Suggestion to Guv -- next time get enforcement nailed down before you undertake a controversial prosecutorial initiative.
Good. The ban is clearly and blatantly unconstitutional.
She did it because she's out of terms as governor, so this is her audition/performance for Biden. She's hoping to get appointed to his cabinet if he wins a 2nd term, and she doesn't really care how it will affect New Mexicans in terms of encouraging the state to vote red, etc.
She can run again if she sits out a term. But I agree with you that she is using good for her own political gain.
>She did it because she's out of terms as governor, so this is her audition/performance for Biden. A pretty interesting take, I never thought of this. >She's hoping to get appointed to his cabinet if he wins a 2nd term you mean WHEN he wins a second term!
Lololololol. He's not going to win a second term, and the universe willing, some mainstream republican won't either. We need new blood and new ideas in public offices instead of these old fossils that have to be dressed by a caregiver and wheeled into the senate chambers (Diane Feinstein), have multiple instances of neurological issues during press conferences (Mitch McConnell), exhibit narcissistic personality disorder (Donald Trump), or show obvious signs and symptoms of dementia like Poppa Joe.
Well, I don't necessarily think that it's a given that he will win a 2nd term. I've never voted republican in my life, but Biden has been objectively terrible. He has spent his entire term chasing war, ignoring the needs of the people who are struggling, pretending he solved the (still ongoing) pandemic, and breaking 98% of any and all campaign promises he ever made (which I don't believe he ever intended on keeping). It is also pretty clear that he does in fact have some degree of dementia.
Maybe she should spend more time disarming criminals. And not trying to attack people trying to protect their lives .she didn't get rid of her armed security detail. I guess she believes only she deserves to be safe..
"Officer who could, personally, be sued for enforcing an unconstitutional order that the governor herself says will have no effect on criminals...decided not to enforce it."
Looks like we got ourselves some traitors who are complicit. Marlin...get the dart gun...
I went to law school with Sam Bregman. He was an idiot then, and apparently the years haven't made him any wiser. Nobody asked Sam Bregman to enforce anything. Enforcement of the temporary suspension of carry permits in select locations was entrusted to the State Police, not Sam. It will be enforced with tickets and fines. The executive order in question doesn't call for arresting anyone or seizing their guns, so it doesn't need Sam or any district attorney to enforce it. State Police office can write tickets for fines, just like they do for motor vehicle violations. And they can appear in court and prosecute those fines if contested. If you've ever got a ticket from a State trooper you know exactly what I mean and how it works. *Sam's input on the matter was neither needed or wanted.* But true to form, he gave it anyway. I'm glad to hear that Sam will continue to focus on gun crime. But maybe he should *do his fucking job* rather than make political speeches and do something about those gun crimes on his watch. If you see someone open-carrying when and where that permit has been revoked, call the State Police: not Sam or anyone at any level or department of Bernalillo County.
Bregman's done considerably less posturing than Raul Torrez. I have distinct memories of meeting Torrez in law school and the impression I came away with is that his head is so far up his own ass he could count the precise number of cheerios he's had for breakfast. Maybe Bregman's a clown, but he's doing his job more than Torrez ever did. As for his opinion that it's unconstitutional, it's not good when your closest allies aren't pulling punches. Maybe his input wasn't necessary, but it's certainly damaging, and that means a lot.
I defer to your greater knowledge of Torrez ... and I've certainly never heard the self-absorption of our "political" colleagues described quite so eloquently.
Lol state police aren't enforcing it with anything.
>Nobody asked Sam Bregman to enforce anything. Enforcement of the temporary suspension of carry permits in select locations was entrusted to the State Police, not Sam. It will be enforced with tickets and fines. In one hand you say nobody is asking him to prosecute... >State Police office can write tickets for fines, just like they do for motor vehicle violations. And they can appear in court and prosecute those fines if contested. If you've ever got a ticket from a State trooper you know exactly what I mean and how it works. On the other hand, you say that they contest these tickets and they will be prosecuted in court... I guess it is easier to call someone an idiot than to admit that you have no blooming clue what you are talking about. You went to law school yet you don't know that the DA's office handles prosecuting cases locally? I would get your money back.
>Nobody asked Sam Bregman to enforce anything. Enforcement of the temporary suspension of carry permits in select locations was entrusted to the State Police, not Sam. It will be enforced with tickets and fines. > >The executive order in question doesn't call for arresting anyone or seizing their guns, so it doesn't need Sam or any district attorney to enforce it. Are you sure that's true ? I mean I'm no expert, I don't know much about concealed carry licenses, but my understanding is that if the people don't have those licenses that they are facing jail time for carrying a gun illegally. Like, prison type stuff. I would assume that if concealed carry is not allowed, that it's like not having a license. Edit, yeah, I just went and looked, under New Mexico 30-7.2-2 if you are carrying a pistol unlawfully it's a Misdemeanor, and under 30-7.2-3 the handgun is seized. Looks like 6 to 12 months in jail.
Yeah you’re right it would be silly to stop someone for illegally possessing a weapon and not take it from them.
Open carry has been legal except where prohibited (banks, post offices, court houses) concealed without a permit has been illegal.....
Dunno if they changed the laws, but open carry in a bank used to be perfectly legal. I conceal today, but I used to work for a place that I had to do a very large cash deposit every day. My boss insisted we open carry when we had that bag of cash, and the banks never minded.
Am I sure? Frankly no. As a lawyer it makes me uncomfortable to be trying to analyze the legal implications of a fucking press release. If there really is an "action plan", like the press release says, it hasn't been published and I have some severe reservations about the binding legal effect of a fucking press release. But that didn't stop Sam Bregman from mouthing off about how it's "unconstitutional", and it hasn't stopped news media from here to Timbuktu from reporting on it, and it's not going to stop me now. You are to be commended for looking up the statutes, but you're looking in the wrong places. All I can tell you is that if the Governor's press release is accurate, we are talking about the temporary *suspension* of permits, not about illegal possession of firearms. (Think about it like this: your two year old's driver's license can't be *suspended*. Your two year old doesn't *have* a driver's license.) The Governor's Executive Order, 2023-130, which is readily available online, doesn't say anything about the suspension of open carry and concealed carry permits. So that's no help. All we have in terms of text is a press release date September 8, 2023 which states, in pertinent part: >The action plan includes a suspension of open and concealed carry laws in Bernalillo County, temporarily prohibiting the carrying of guns on public property with certain exceptions. Exceptions include for licensed security guards and law enforcement officers. Citizens with permits to carry firearms are free to possess their weapons on private property (such as at a gun range or gun store), provided they transport the firearm in a locked box, use a trigger lock, or some other mechanism that renders the gun incapable of being fired. I have many questions. For example, how is "public property" defined? If anyone can point me in the direction of an actual ***text*** of this **"action plan"**, I'd be grateful. The Executive Order does give us one more clue. The Governor claims authority under something called the "Riot Control Act". See NMSA 1978, Section 12-10-16. This gives the Governor powers to issue emergency health orders. The Governor won legal challenges the Governor's authority to issue these kinds of orders during the COVID-19 panic. Reading those cases will give the legally astute a road map for why this gun order is shaped the way it is. But the short version is: challenges to the Governor's authority to close businesses to enforce quarantines *failed*. She won those battles already. That's why she's so confident doing this now, despite pushback from slime balls like Bregman and Medina.
He successfully defended a number of high profile cases in NM. How exactly do you define idiot? I have a attorney friend who talks like you, I cannot understand how some attorneys can just ignore one simple fact and base a entire argument thread out of that intentional ignorance. It reeks of bullying to me, and I'm sorry, but I'm not falling for it. I suspect few folks these days will. The days of puffing up your shirts and making wide pronouncements are over. We are not nearly as ignorant as you think. Now you are going to reply in some serious legal tones that sound really impressive. But he's the district attorney for Bernalillo county, he does have a valid position in this conversation regardless of your opinion. I've had these arguments with my attorney friend to death on similar topics. And my reading of Bregman's statement didn't sound like political speech at all, it sounds like a operational statement of a appointed/elected official. He not only has the right to make the statement, he has a OBLIGATION to do so, whether we agree or not. If you don't like it, don't vote for him, simple as that. Please remember, State Police like other New Mexico public officials no longer have qualified immunity. Good luck to them. I'm going to pop some popcorn and find a comfortable chair to watch this train wreck.
If a citation is written in Bernalillo County, it is up to the Bernalillo County DA to prosecute it. The tickets will be dismissed even if one of Michelle's stormtroopers writes it.
Wrong. The Bernalillo County DA isn't involved in the process for fining people who violate the Governor's orders under PHERA. Here's the civil penalties law that the Governor has invoked for fining people who violate the emergency order suspending open carry an concealed carry permits. >12-10A-19. Enforcement; civil penalties. A. The secretary of health, the secretary of public safety or the director may enforce the provisions of the Public Health Emergency Response Act by imposing a civil administrative penalty of up to five thousand dollars ($5,000) for each violation of that act. A civil administrative penalty may be imposed pursuant to a written order issued by the secretary of health, the secretary of public safety or the director after a hearing is held in accordance with the rules promulgated pursuant to the provisions of Section 12-10A-17 NMSA 1978. Here's the administrative rule for hearings on the fines. Note: no Bernalillo County involvement: [https://www.srca.nm.gov/parts/title07/07.001.0030.html](https://www.srca.nm.gov/parts/title07/07.001.0030.html) This procedure was challenged during the COVID pandemic when the Governor used it to threaten fines against businesses that stayed open contrary to her orders. Here's the New Mexico Supreme Court's ruling on that back in 2020. https://casetext.com/case/grisham-v-reeb Governor won.
If it's purely civil, it has no teeth. If all they can do is right a citation Ave issues a fine, then they have done nothing to limit one's liberty. The fine will be a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things.
Good!!!!
and by prosecute, they mean release back onto the streets
She should be arrested.
Kudos to home slice for swinging some dick!!
I'm a huge gun rights supporter, and I love that the governor did this. I can't wait for this to get slapped down and help establish even more precedent for individual liberty. And since it's really a toothless civil claim that the police already said they won't enforce... no one even has to put their liberty in jeopardy to knock it down. And as if it couldn't get any better, gun rights groups are gonna use this to show that "the libruls really are goin' after us law'biding folks". We'll be fundraising off of this for at least a year. And bringing it up evvvverrryyy time someone says "no one wants to take your..." But wait! It gets even better. Because of this stupid stunt there is gonna be a court ruling that shreds the concept of constitutional overreach for "public health emergencies". So next time the news gins up the COVID hysteria, we'll have a court ruling to point to while we tell those lizards to eat shit! This is awesome 😎! I think I'm gonna send the governor an edible arrangement.
You're soooo right. Maybe we can get rid of that stupid NFA, too!
MLGs move was to not make a move that was actionable, but to advance the dialogue. She’s playing the long game, methinks.
agreed… it’s a move that gets a lot of people talking about guns and shootings in abq. Not sure it was the best way to do this… but it’s done now
She advanced the dialogue alright, .. but I don't think in the way she intended.
This is how we lose votes unfortunately. The dialogue is more difficult now.
She’s playing the long game, yes but she's so inept she just scored a huge own-goal.
I think it’s going to backfire and deliver some additional electoral victories to the state GOP, slowing any future gun law reform, climate laws, and civil liberty protections.
As it should.
Good
The dialogue is set in the constitution. It isn't up for debate. Your attempt to reframe it as a fluid issue which warrants 'dialogue' is just an insidious form of soft creep and nothing more. If you want stronger gun laws to make yourself feel safer, move to baltimore or chicago, both of which have much stricter gun laws.
See this is what the country is up against when it comes to guns. People are getting shot every couple of days in Abq… and if someone even mentions starting dialogue about shootings being out of control people start whining that it’s their constitutional right to live in an environment that not only enables this sort of senseless violence but encourages it. Then they mock people for “wanting to feel safer”… like wanting children to not get shot is some sort of weakness. It’s despicable.
Maybe it has something to do with your dialogue always targeting law abiding citizens while summarily failing to prosecute violent offenders or letting them out early? Cashless bail for homicide or rape suspects for instance. Until you take a tough-on-crime stance, there can be no dialogue when it comes to Constitutional rights.
She tried to suspend a constitutional right based on her personal feelings. Where exactly is the “dialogue?” You get mocked for wanting to “feel safer” because you personally will trade freedom and liberty for the assurance of security.
We've been trying to start the dialogue on how to curb gun violence, but your side thinks it's racist to point to statistics that show a certain demographic is responsible for a majority of these murders and shootings.
I feel safe in Albuquerque but I also live in a great part of town. I just made comment on perhaps her strategy. If you’re older than 45 if you don’t admit the number of guns available to society have gotten out of control and that’s a bad thing you’re really not being truthful to yourself. There will come no good of humans living in close proximity, armed to the teeth. None. It’s a scenario the Founding Fathers could have never comprehended.
The problem with this argument is that the law only reduces the number of lawful guns while doing nothing to decrease illegal guns (and historically - increasing them because the bad guys are emboldened and were already carrying illegally). I have been shot at once in the US, in Philly. Gonna guess the 17 year old looking old kid wasn't legally carrying.
Impeach the governor!!!
What blows my mind is all the “oh shucks, she shouldn’t have done that” I see. If this was any other Amendment in the Bill of Rights, this wouldn’t even be a disagreement on whether or not it was grounds for impeachment.
The paranoid sites are claiming this is a big test to help them harvest social media for 'compliance research' such as they are publicly doing now with DHS usage of ai to link social media and location info to ssn#s.
……they’ve had this capability and have definitely been doing this for at least a decade….
Amen.
We all know what “30 days” means 🙃
tWo WeEkS tO sToP tHe SprEaD.....
Based!
With her third reich uniform
#GrishamForPrison2023
So will he seek an arrest warrant for treason for a government official doing something that is "clearly unconstitutional"?
This is rank and file political ignorance / negligence, not treason. I've supported MLG for a long time, I am genuinely shaking my head over this one... this is just such a stupid move. Yes, she got national attention. No it's not good attention.
Same and same. I generally think she's pretty smart. This just looks like a dumb knee-jerk reaction, and that never advances a conversation forward in a positive way.
She mentioned all the horrible youth victims of gun violence as her rationalization. Is there any evidence those shootings were carried out with legal firearms?
I have said two things about MLG: The first is that she is by far the most competent governor we've in my lifetime. The second, she reminds me of Maude without the raw sexual magnetism of Bea Arthur. Her actions Friday undermine the first statement, and underline the second.
I like your style
You can’t claim ignorance when you 100% know what you’re doing
I don't think she anticipated this much pushback from within her own base. Maybe not ignorance, perhaps incompetence / negligence is the better label for this. Maybe she's playing 4D chess and in 6 months we'll all be handing in our guns.
I won't be handing in any of mine . . .
I still support her the latter is the letting the devil in to make laws (republicans)
That’s not treason. Treason is a narrowly defined crime.
Again this madness has to stop! She is a nut jib obsessed with power! She needs to be stopped! All New Mexico residents deserve better leadership! Both major parties have failed us all its time for a new generation with real solutions to problems to take over. This is just stupid and violation of our rights as citizens of the United States!
Good!
It just sucks that, especially with a very-blue state like NM, there can't be a unified front on issues like this. Like, this could've been something for the Mayor, the governor, the DA, the AG, senators, representatives...everyone...to have a unified voice on and come up with a plan. AFAIK no one was calling on the governor to do anything. This was all her doing to attract attention for a big, bold decision that doesn't really help our state, which is a shame because I think it's going to lead to more calculated decision that won't really help our state in the future... Sucks. Sucks that our leaders here don't seem to care about rational choices and solutions. Even going back to the whole CYFD deal where she struck down the Legislature-backed plan to overhaul that and create a civil rights division, just because she wanted to do it her way, and still hasn't done much...meanwhile NM is 50th for child welfare and tons of horrible neglect and abuse and tragic death cases keep popping up.
I've got tar and feathers. I'm in FL but willing to make a drive. LMK.
"The sound of children screaming has been muted."
Could you expand on that, I'm not familiar with the reference.
The video of the Uvalde massacre was presented to the public without sound because they didn't want to upset people.
Wow yeah that's pretty potent, I'll remember it. Thank you.
Okay, now make charges on the governor for trying to violate peoples constitutional rights.
Not his job to make that decision.
He swore an oath to support and defend the US and NM constitutions, therefore it is his job.
It couldn't possibly **be** more his decision.
I think you're confused. That is very much a D.A.'s decision.
Maybe read about the constitution and why they created it. And what happened in places where they have the strictest gun rules like baltimore and chicago.
She did say on her site it was to generate conversation. If it was as gun nuts fear, it would not be just 30 days.
The conversation nationally now is "how fast can she be impeached?"