Which conspiracy theories are you referring to? There were several regarding Covid.
You can be okay with vaccines and still not believe in the government mandating such vaccines.
Probably, there are thousands of conspiracy theories. Let's start with the origin of Covid:
1. Covid escaped from the Wuhan Lab.
2. Covid was created in the Wuhan Lab.
3. Covid was released by the Wuhan Lab.
4. Covid infected people because some Chinese (as also Americans) eat bats.
5. Covid infected people, because some Chinese eat pangolins.
6. Covid was created in the Fort Detrick Lab.
7. Covid came from the Chinese Wet Markets.
8. Covid doesn't exist.
Probably none of them is true. The earliest evidence of Covid comes from Europe: Sewage waters in Spain in March 2019, blood samples in Italy, etc. But nobody wants to search or investigate there for the origin of Covid, after all the investigations done in China (where the first Covid evidence is from December 2019).
Saying vaccine mandates are wrong ethically speaking is a philosophical stance, not a conspiracy theory. One I disagree with, but still. Now, the *reasons* they believe that may be conspiracy theories.
Based on the vaccine-related conspiracies I've seen or heard:
**No**, there aren't any microchips in anyone's body.
**No**, the vaccines didn't cause autism or any other condition in people
**No**, the vaccine did not cause the sudden collapse of Damar Hamlin
**No**, the vaccines aren't hijacking people's brains to make them vote Democrat
**No**, there is no proof that the vaccine mandate was ineffective and didn't help anyone
Check out r/vaccinelonghaulers
Literally NO one talks about them having microchips. You’re confusing that with Elons Neurolink? Which is real. It’s mostly just people who have died and been injured by the vaccine.. made some people a bit hesitant to take it themselves. Not sure why this is so hard to understand or notice.
In fact, the "[Covid vaccine has microchip](https://www.theverge.com/22516823/covid-vaccine-microchip-conspiracy-theory-explained-reddit)" is a far spread conspiracy theory... and it seems, it was created on Reddit.
Obviously, the US health authorities [denying](https://www.bhcpublichealth.org/faq/is-there-a-microchip-in-the-covid-19-vaccine) the claim, didn't help to stop the theory. Nobody is still believing anything told by the US government.
People have been fearing the lie that the vaccine has microchips since the vaccine was first developed. Here are different websites addressing the fear/conspiracy:
[Health department site](https://www.bhcpublichealth.org/faq/is-there-a-microchip-in-the-covid-19-vaccine) acknowledges the source of the myth
[CNBC News site](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/10/01/why-theres-no-5g-tracking-microchip-in-the-covid-vaccine.html) addresses the theory about chips and magnetics
[Australian government](https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/is-it-true/is-it-true-do-covid-19-vaccines-contain-a-microchip-or-any-kind-of-tracking-technology) addressing conspiracy on health site
People are definitely talking about the vaccine having microchips
You may be correct on some of that, but it did cause Hamlin to collapse. If you believe their false narrative about him being hit just at the right moment, I have a bridge to sell you.
Also, the mandate was ineffective. More people that had the vaccine got covid again than people that never had the vaccine. The vaccine did not stop you from getting covid, nor does it stop you from spreading covid.
For Damar Hamlin - literally no evidence. We don't know when he was vaccinated, and the effects of the vaccine have been studied by the wider global scientific and medical community, and the contact sport he way playing is way more likely to have been the cause of his collapse.
The mandate was very effective. Yes more people thta were vaccinated got covid but that is just because more people in general are vaccinated. In terms of proportions, there are proportionally way more unvaccinated people that require hospitalization for covid than unvaccinated people.
The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting and spreading covid but data is *very* clear that it greatly reduces both those things.
Your post isn't just a different opinion, it is full of inaccurate and false statements.
Dear God, the stupid radiates hard from this one.
Let's start with the easy stuff:
Hamlin collapsing - can you provide some detail where doctors or similar experts have come to the conclusion you're attempting to sell?
Entire second paragraph - please provide your sources
>The vaccine did not stop you from getting covid, nor does it stop you from spreading covid.
They never claimed it did, did they? It was only ever supposed to minimize the symptoms so you didn't die from them, or need to go to the hospital. You would be less likely to spread it if you're not coughing constantly, though it wouldn't stop it entirely, no.
It was touted to significantly reduce the rate/risk of infection at first - because it did. The vaccine is based on the original (wild type). The only (or at least main) reason it has become less effective at reducing the risk of infection is because of the newer variants being different enough that the antibodies produced by the vaccine don’t fit as well. This is the same drive behind multiple infections (majority of which are infection from a variant one hasn’t been exposed to yet). Though there is evidence of adverse atigenic imprinting, much more so in those unvaccinated infected than those vaccinated infected, which may or may not result in long term consequences re: ability to fight off new variants.
Oh no. You are wrong! They said you must get the vaccine to prevent you from getting it. They only charged the narrative after it didn't do what they said it world do.
I'll join you in the downvotes, why not? Literally hundreds of tackles occurring every single game in the hundreds of games occurring each season, yet this is the only time we've seen a player collapse from the timing of the tackle. Okay.
My step father thought the virus was a hoax, didn't get the vaccine. Then spent a month in the hospital with COVID/pneumonia, 2 weeks of which were in the ICU. Now he's convinced it was intentionally made and released by China (somehow he said Obama was involved) as a ploy to gain democrat popularity (some how, I still haven't deciphered that one)
At this point, you've just got to either let them come to it themselves, our let them believe their things, most are too far gone to listen to reason.
RN COVID nurse here. COVID was real and it sucked and those conspiracy theorists have blood on their hands. They literally killed people with their words. There's a special place in hell, I hope.
I was a deputy during Covid and I had to go door to door in quarantined neighborhoods to do wellness checks on the older folks. I don’t know how I only got it twice. My poor nurses got it three or four times
I had it twice that I know of. I was ok-ish, but my brain broke from watching people die while the TV in their room told them it wasn't real. I am so fucked up.
It’s good you took it that hard, because you care. But don’t let it rest on your shoulders or blame yourself. You did more than 99% of the population to fix the situation
In that there are adverse effects, they're "Right", but mathematically irrelevant. At first it made sense to be wary, but now that billions of people have gotten the vaccine and adverse reactions did happen but in such a smaller scale compared to adverse reactions to covid itself, it's the same as giving credence to the argument "I refuse to let my kids eat solid foods because kids have choked from it".
They were so wrong, they were *Billy Madison* final scene wrong:
>”What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
Every single time they bring up vaccine mandates, you should immediately start bitching about seatbelt laws, repeat back all of their talking points to them only make it about seatbelts.
I've known people who argued against seatbelts like people argue against vaccines. Talking about the people who are severely injured by seatbelts in accidents even though they probably would have been turned into hamburger otherwise. Worried about people drowning if they fall into water while hooked into seatbelts. The government overreach and seat belt mandates. Even worse of the injuries caused by airbags. I'll tear you up if you're right in front of them. And the good old days wait to sleep against the steering wheel.
And then we get to those people who argue against motorcycle helmet laws.
How do the insurance companies prevent paying out life loss claims? What miraculous device or methodology could they possibly be using to save those lives?
Seat belts save lives obviously. That's not why the seat belt law came about. Insurance companies are the reason the law came about. And it had everything to do with money & claims. Downvote all you want. Still facts.
"Seat belt laws aren't about saving lives."
"Seat belts save lives obviously."
You do realize you just said two completely conflicting things here, right? Your point about the insurance companies is completely moot too, by the way. It doesn't matter if the right thing is being done for the wrong reason, because in the end that's still them doing the right thing.
I was a commercial insurance producer who handled multi million dollar books of business. You have to study for your license & maintain with continuing ed but I'll let you tell it. Were you not aware that insurance companies lobby? Google is your friend. And I'm not a guy.
I’m very aware of lobbying, but thanks for the condescension. I’m sure there is no way I have my own certifications, degrees and accomplishments. Which are all just as relevant as yours. (Not at all.)
I’ll stand by my statement. Regardless of insurance carriers reasons for supporting the law, the idea that nobody involved cared about the lives seatbelts would save beyond their monetary value is a bit nuts.
The medical definition is:
„Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases.“.
Please go on why it‘s not a vaccine.
Whether vaccine *mandates* should be supported is a political and moral question. I personally believe that the US should have had mandatory vaccination against Covid, but for example my country Portugal didn't have and shouldn't have had mandatory Covid vaccination. The reason is that in the US compliance for health measures, especially lockdowns and mask wearing, was very low and therefore those measures were ineffective. A vaccine mandate would have saved a very high number of lives. In Portugal, both compliance with health measures and voluntary vaccination were extremely high, we were even the #1 in vaccinations at some time and had basically all adults vaccinated voluntarily very soon. So there wasn't a need for mandatory vaccinations.
Other people value the personal freedom to be stupid higher than preventing avoidable deaths, and these people would naturally be against mandatory vaccinations.
Why? Ah, nevermind, you're not interested in a real discussion. Your post history reveals that you're an anti-vaxx troll. Anyway, Sweden should also have had mandatory vaccinations.
I'd like to have this discussion, or at least hear what you have to say. When reviewing overall infections to related deaths, why should Sweden have also done this?
Okay, here we go. Sweden implemented voluntary measures that were naturally somewhat less effective than in countries with stricter health measures. Therefore, deaths among the older population could have been avoided by enforcing a mandatory vaccination. Notice that the vaccination rate is still not very high in Sweden, it's currently 73.3% (75.1% 1 dose), compared to my country Portugal with 86.1% (94.7% 1 dose).
As for how many infected die, this depends on a large extent on the overall health of the population (e.g. obesity rates, prior diseases) and quality of health system. You cannot compare very *different* countries in that respect very easily. For instance, the fatality rates among hospitalized patients were high in Portugal due to a combination of factors. It wouldn't make much sense to compare this to Sweden or Germany, for example, without also taking into account other factors like the health budget, the number of ICUs, risk factors of the affected population (e.g. asthma, obesity), age structure, etc. For example, at the outbreak in 2020, for some often criticized reasons Germany had an order of magnitude more ICUs per capita than most other European countries. So it's not surprising that at least initially the case fatality rate in Germany was very low.
If your point is that Sweden's health system was good enough to keep the fatality rates low, that's a point that has been made. That's why I called it a political issue. I disagree, though. Many deaths could have been avoided with stricter measures, and particularly with fast mandatory vaccination campaigns. Sweden's Covid politics failed in comparison to its neighboring countries, which are most similar to it.\[1\] As the statistics indicate very clearly, at least half of the Covid-related deaths in Sweden could have been avoided. For instance, the total number of Covid deaths in Norway so far is 63 per hundred thousand inhabitants, versus 234 per hundred thousand inhabitants in Sweden. I should mention that overall Sweden's Covid response was still reasonable and not too different from other European countries. What went on in the US was a total disaster in comparison and embarrassing since the US was supposed to be the country the most prepared for such epidemics. It seems that the political constellation in the US at the time was particularly unsuitable for a rational and unified response to such a large health crisis.
Overall, it is fairly clear that mandatory campaigns would have been particularly useful in countries with less strict health measures / higher individual freedom such as Sweden or low compliance levels such as the US. As the example of Portugal shows, with high compliance and reasonably strict health measures mandatory vaccinations were not necessary. But they wouldn't have harmed either.
\[1\] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-nordics/
>If your point is that Sweden's health system was good enough to keep the fatality rates low, that's a point that has been made.
This actually wasn't my point. I was just reviewing graphs for different countries (mainly comparing Sweden to the US), and the charts have all the same spikes and dips with numbers relative to the population.
I guess my point is more that if they had a relatively similar outcome (compared to other countries), was it worth it to put the stress of lockdowns on citizens?
I don't think that question is easily answered and I'm not saying I have that answer. But I do appreciate the time you took to craft this response. One of the best things people can do is to understand and learn other perspectives.
Okay, I see and also understood you that way. That was the argument in Sweden initially. I think it's based on two problematic assumptions. First, Sweden did much worse than neighboring countries according to preliminary analyses, so the premise seems wrong. More can only be said in hindsight with careful statistical study. Second, in my personal opinion you should primarily compare estimates of the effects of different courses of action *within your country.* How many deaths can be prevented? How much does this cost? How does it restrict personal freedom? Fast mandatory vaccination campaigns would have prevented many deaths in almost any country and would have only cost a tiny bit more resources. They would also have allowed many countries to relax measure earlier, increasing personal freedom and aiding economy.
The real reason why they didn't happen is political. The benefits are only visible in comparison to counterfactuals ("had we not vaccinated, then..."). Such counterfactual statements are easy to attack, and no politician wanted to take the risk of the poisoned debate afterwards.
Saying you don't believe a vaccine should be mandatory is not a "conspiracy theory" per se just making the case it should be up to the individual to decide for themselves.
"You're welcome to believe drunk driving is dangerous, but you are not welcome to force me to drive sober"
People act like government setting rules for health and safety has never been done before.
There's laws against pissing on the street, sitting naked on a public bench, etc. When it starts affecting the health of others, it goes beyond body autonomy. And it was never illegal to not have the vaccine to the point of arrest, so this fantasy of being oppressed ya'll have is exactly that: a fantasy.
It was never illegal to not get a vaccine period, because such a law would immediately be declared unconstitutional and struck down. And for the record, of course I get vaccines, I'm not an idiot, I just don't believe anybody should be forced to. You do you, I do me, that guy does that guy.
Nobody is being forced to get a vaccine. I never said that. I said it would be wrong/illegal if that were the law, but it's not, because such a law would never stand. Anyway have a nice day.
a lot of the measures against covid fall into "if you do something right no one will be sure you did anything at all" and theres not much more to say about it. theres no point talking about a conspiracy theorist's favourite thing because they do not want to have a conversation they want to parrot their favourite influencer at you and hope you fall for the bait.
> The Covid shot is not a vaccine
According to who, some random youtuber? Maybe focus more on the fact that *you're not a doctor*.
According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, one of the definitions of a vaccine is:
> a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)
So...you're saying technology *doesn't* advance?
Were you using 5G to stream movies on your mobile device 20 years ago? Did your car have built-in GPS back then?
> It's not a vaccine
According to who?
All the doctors and scientists call it a vaccine. Are you in any way qualified to dispute them? Where'd you go to medical school?
Right about what? None of these statements are a conspiracy theory. Something being "wrong" is not the same as claiming Bill Gates tries to controll your mind.
>is not the same as claiming Bill Gates tries to controll your mind
While this definitely happened, I do believe most vaccine apprehensive individuals had concerns regarding health complications. Which there have been plenty of adverse reactions documented, just not enough to make it anything more than anecdotes.
So to answer OPs question, I think some of them were right. But if we're gonna lump all of them into "bill gates microchip", then yeah... It's easy to dismiss all of them.
Gee. I wonder where people got the idea that vaccines were worthy of health concerns?
Conspiracy theorists publishing bullshit?
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
I pay no attention to them. These folks are the same ones who probably peaked in high school, drive very big trucks that cost $200 to fill up with Let’s Go Brandon stickers adorning the bumper. Their opinions don’t matter to me whatsoever.
The rationale matters here.
"Vaccine mandates are bad because they infringe on my freedom" - this stance is grounded in their ethics, believing that some death is preferable to restricting individual liberty. They are not wrong or right because this is an opinion.
"Vaccine mandates are bad because the vaccines don't work" - this is wrong, as there is ample evidence that they do work.
"Vaccine mandates are bad because we have herd immunity" - this is now right but was wrong before. The US had herd immunity after the vaccines became available, and the vaccines themselves contributed to that immunity.
The question needs to be clearer to be answered.
Vaccines reduce symptoms when you get sick, so you are leas likely to die, reduce likelihood of getting sick therefore reducing the spread, reducing the number of people who get sick at the same time, increasing the likelihood that there are free beds in hospitals for the severe cases.
What exactly are they right about?
Edit: I see some people here value their feelings above facts https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221008572
I have never listened to CNN in my life. I don't really care what the TV had to say about science anyway. I only go by what studies say https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221008572
Remember facts don't care about your feelings
Lotta folks commenting on vaccine mandates without understanding that herd immunity relies on everyone working together, you cant “my choice” your way out of a global pandemic
The herd immunity is referring to everybody receiving natural antibodies via infection, its never been used to refer to getting vaccinated unless you maybe fell for some shitty propaganda. People didn't choose to get COVID.
The most obvious one is the lab leak theory. Anyone who mentioned this was banned on social media and called a conspiracy theorist. Now it seems pretty obvious COVID escaped from a Wuhan lab to anyone whose looked into it at all (former CDC director concluded it based on the biology of the virus, US intelligence concluded it based on analysis of Chinese communications, lay man can conclude it based on mountains of circumstantial evidence, etc).
Conspiracy theorists were also right that masks don’t work. Seems like the research now is pretty clear cloth masks do nothing, surgical masks probably do nothing, and N95s maybe do something but no study has been able to prove it.
Conspiracy theorists were also correct that the vaccines don’t work against the spread. This was obvious for a few months prior to the CDC and pharma admitting it (now they claim they never said it protected against cases….)
Conspiracy theorists were also correct that the vaccine does pose real side effects. It does cause heart issues in some young men. There’s a lot of evidence it affected women’s periods. So while it might have been a good societal trade for everyone to get vaxed, the idea that it was safe because the spike proteins would just stay locally at the injection site and not further interact with the body is not really true.
Also, not sure if it counts as a conspiracy theorist or not but conspiracy theorists were right that for people under the age of 50 (and maybe even younger than 65), the mortality risk of COVID was equal to or far less than the flu. Again, COVID was much more dangerous to 80 year olds so this depends on how nuanced your “conspiracy theorist” was - but it was something the media was clearly wrong on.
Idk about conspiracy theories, but we almost lost the right to have any say over what gets injected into our bodies, and six months later we're all supposed to be outraged over my body my choice
The original scientific argument for Vaccine mandates was that if enough people got vaccinated the it would be harder to spread and mutate. This was true for Delta but once it mutated into Omicron it became able to reinfect vaccinated people making a vaccine mandate less effective so it was dropped.
So to summarize it was sound policy to have a vaccine mandate for the deadlier Delta strain but the less deadly but more infectious Omicron strain made it an ineffective policy so it was dropped
There was talk at the very beginning about herd immunity, that no matter what we did everyone was going to get it. Obviously at that time nobody on either side could completely know the pay of COVID, but they were mostly vindicated. Still good to not have overwhelmed hispitals
How do you shut them up? I’d say: shut the fuck up you ignorant buffoon . Just do what you want for your own stupid ass, and I will do what I want. But remember, if you’re dying from any number of preventable diseases, I’d ask you to go quietly
Which conspiracy theories are you referring to? There were several regarding Covid. You can be okay with vaccines and still not believe in the government mandating such vaccines.
Probably, there are thousands of conspiracy theories. Let's start with the origin of Covid: 1. Covid escaped from the Wuhan Lab. 2. Covid was created in the Wuhan Lab. 3. Covid was released by the Wuhan Lab. 4. Covid infected people because some Chinese (as also Americans) eat bats. 5. Covid infected people, because some Chinese eat pangolins. 6. Covid was created in the Fort Detrick Lab. 7. Covid came from the Chinese Wet Markets. 8. Covid doesn't exist. Probably none of them is true. The earliest evidence of Covid comes from Europe: Sewage waters in Spain in March 2019, blood samples in Italy, etc. But nobody wants to search or investigate there for the origin of Covid, after all the investigations done in China (where the first Covid evidence is from December 2019).
Saying vaccine mandates are wrong ethically speaking is a philosophical stance, not a conspiracy theory. One I disagree with, but still. Now, the *reasons* they believe that may be conspiracy theories.
Based on the vaccine-related conspiracies I've seen or heard: **No**, there aren't any microchips in anyone's body. **No**, the vaccines didn't cause autism or any other condition in people **No**, the vaccine did not cause the sudden collapse of Damar Hamlin **No**, the vaccines aren't hijacking people's brains to make them vote Democrat **No**, there is no proof that the vaccine mandate was ineffective and didn't help anyone
"Any other condition" is a high target to shoot for.
Check out r/vaccinelonghaulers Literally NO one talks about them having microchips. You’re confusing that with Elons Neurolink? Which is real. It’s mostly just people who have died and been injured by the vaccine.. made some people a bit hesitant to take it themselves. Not sure why this is so hard to understand or notice.
In fact, the "[Covid vaccine has microchip](https://www.theverge.com/22516823/covid-vaccine-microchip-conspiracy-theory-explained-reddit)" is a far spread conspiracy theory... and it seems, it was created on Reddit. Obviously, the US health authorities [denying](https://www.bhcpublichealth.org/faq/is-there-a-microchip-in-the-covid-19-vaccine) the claim, didn't help to stop the theory. Nobody is still believing anything told by the US government.
People have been fearing the lie that the vaccine has microchips since the vaccine was first developed. Here are different websites addressing the fear/conspiracy: [Health department site](https://www.bhcpublichealth.org/faq/is-there-a-microchip-in-the-covid-19-vaccine) acknowledges the source of the myth [CNBC News site](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/10/01/why-theres-no-5g-tracking-microchip-in-the-covid-vaccine.html) addresses the theory about chips and magnetics [Australian government](https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/is-it-true/is-it-true-do-covid-19-vaccines-contain-a-microchip-or-any-kind-of-tracking-technology) addressing conspiracy on health site People are definitely talking about the vaccine having microchips
Not in years, the focus is not on real issues such as vaccine injuries and death.
Holy shit why does Reddit allow this sub to exist
You may be correct on some of that, but it did cause Hamlin to collapse. If you believe their false narrative about him being hit just at the right moment, I have a bridge to sell you. Also, the mandate was ineffective. More people that had the vaccine got covid again than people that never had the vaccine. The vaccine did not stop you from getting covid, nor does it stop you from spreading covid.
For Damar Hamlin - literally no evidence. We don't know when he was vaccinated, and the effects of the vaccine have been studied by the wider global scientific and medical community, and the contact sport he way playing is way more likely to have been the cause of his collapse. The mandate was very effective. Yes more people thta were vaccinated got covid but that is just because more people in general are vaccinated. In terms of proportions, there are proportionally way more unvaccinated people that require hospitalization for covid than unvaccinated people. The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting and spreading covid but data is *very* clear that it greatly reduces both those things. Your post isn't just a different opinion, it is full of inaccurate and false statements.
Dear God, the stupid radiates hard from this one. Let's start with the easy stuff: Hamlin collapsing - can you provide some detail where doctors or similar experts have come to the conclusion you're attempting to sell? Entire second paragraph - please provide your sources
>The vaccine did not stop you from getting covid, nor does it stop you from spreading covid. They never claimed it did, did they? It was only ever supposed to minimize the symptoms so you didn't die from them, or need to go to the hospital. You would be less likely to spread it if you're not coughing constantly, though it wouldn't stop it entirely, no.
It was touted to significantly reduce the rate/risk of infection at first - because it did. The vaccine is based on the original (wild type). The only (or at least main) reason it has become less effective at reducing the risk of infection is because of the newer variants being different enough that the antibodies produced by the vaccine don’t fit as well. This is the same drive behind multiple infections (majority of which are infection from a variant one hasn’t been exposed to yet). Though there is evidence of adverse atigenic imprinting, much more so in those unvaccinated infected than those vaccinated infected, which may or may not result in long term consequences re: ability to fight off new variants.
Oh no. You are wrong! They said you must get the vaccine to prevent you from getting it. They only charged the narrative after it didn't do what they said it world do.
I'll join you in the downvotes, why not? Literally hundreds of tackles occurring every single game in the hundreds of games occurring each season, yet this is the only time we've seen a player collapse from the timing of the tackle. Okay.
Lol what? You gotta stop watching OAN
My step father thought the virus was a hoax, didn't get the vaccine. Then spent a month in the hospital with COVID/pneumonia, 2 weeks of which were in the ICU. Now he's convinced it was intentionally made and released by China (somehow he said Obama was involved) as a ploy to gain democrat popularity (some how, I still haven't deciphered that one) At this point, you've just got to either let them come to it themselves, our let them believe their things, most are too far gone to listen to reason.
Well, sure, it makes sense. Obama is trying to get back into the WH for a (totally not legally possible) 3rd term.
RN COVID nurse here. COVID was real and it sucked and those conspiracy theorists have blood on their hands. They literally killed people with their words. There's a special place in hell, I hope.
I was a deputy during Covid and I had to go door to door in quarantined neighborhoods to do wellness checks on the older folks. I don’t know how I only got it twice. My poor nurses got it three or four times
I had it twice that I know of. I was ok-ish, but my brain broke from watching people die while the TV in their room told them it wasn't real. I am so fucked up.
It’s good you took it that hard, because you care. But don’t let it rest on your shoulders or blame yourself. You did more than 99% of the population to fix the situation
There are loads of different conspiracy theorists. Eventually some of them will be right, if only by accident.
You would think so, but no
[удалено]
The hint was in the name.
Please go on.
No, time has pretty much completely validated the scientific community's concencus on the importance of vaccines
In that there are adverse effects, they're "Right", but mathematically irrelevant. At first it made sense to be wary, but now that billions of people have gotten the vaccine and adverse reactions did happen but in such a smaller scale compared to adverse reactions to covid itself, it's the same as giving credence to the argument "I refuse to let my kids eat solid foods because kids have choked from it".
They were so wrong, they were *Billy Madison* final scene wrong: >”What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
You know that’s not the final scene, right?
You mean the scene when Billy wins the competition he spends the whole movie competing for? That one? I think it’s close enough.
He got this question wrong. Lol
Every single time they bring up vaccine mandates, you should immediately start bitching about seatbelt laws, repeat back all of their talking points to them only make it about seatbelts.
I've known people who argued against seatbelts like people argue against vaccines. Talking about the people who are severely injured by seatbelts in accidents even though they probably would have been turned into hamburger otherwise. Worried about people drowning if they fall into water while hooked into seatbelts. The government overreach and seat belt mandates. Even worse of the injuries caused by airbags. I'll tear you up if you're right in front of them. And the good old days wait to sleep against the steering wheel. And then we get to those people who argue against motorcycle helmet laws.
And every single time you bring it up, I should say "My Body, My Choice" am I right? And bring all their talking points back to abortions!
Seat belt laws aren't about saving lives. They're about insurance companies not wanting to pay out life loss claims.
How do the insurance companies prevent paying out life loss claims? What miraculous device or methodology could they possibly be using to save those lives?
Seat belts save lives obviously. That's not why the seat belt law came about. Insurance companies are the reason the law came about. And it had everything to do with money & claims. Downvote all you want. Still facts.
"Seat belt laws aren't about saving lives." "Seat belts save lives obviously." You do realize you just said two completely conflicting things here, right? Your point about the insurance companies is completely moot too, by the way. It doesn't matter if the right thing is being done for the wrong reason, because in the end that's still them doing the right thing.
He doesn't write laws, so he technically didn't contradict himself
I'll never understand reddits boner for seatbelt laws. What you're saying is plainly true, and not wearing a seat belt is a victimless crime.
You don't see how you are contradicting what you are saying??
This guy gets the assignment. Yes, those are the types of conspiracy theories we’re looking for. Oh. Were you serious? Well, ok then.
I was a commercial insurance producer who handled multi million dollar books of business. You have to study for your license & maintain with continuing ed but I'll let you tell it. Were you not aware that insurance companies lobby? Google is your friend. And I'm not a guy.
I’m very aware of lobbying, but thanks for the condescension. I’m sure there is no way I have my own certifications, degrees and accomplishments. Which are all just as relevant as yours. (Not at all.) I’ll stand by my statement. Regardless of insurance carriers reasons for supporting the law, the idea that nobody involved cared about the lives seatbelts would save beyond their monetary value is a bit nuts.
Not the same. One works one doesn't.
Are you seriously trying to argue that vaccines don't work?
Vaccines do work. The covid jab is not a Vaccine, as it does not prevent you from getting covid, thus is not a Vaccine.
The medical definition is: „Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases.“. Please go on why it‘s not a vaccine.
Whether vaccine *mandates* should be supported is a political and moral question. I personally believe that the US should have had mandatory vaccination against Covid, but for example my country Portugal didn't have and shouldn't have had mandatory Covid vaccination. The reason is that in the US compliance for health measures, especially lockdowns and mask wearing, was very low and therefore those measures were ineffective. A vaccine mandate would have saved a very high number of lives. In Portugal, both compliance with health measures and voluntary vaccination were extremely high, we were even the #1 in vaccinations at some time and had basically all adults vaccinated voluntarily very soon. So there wasn't a need for mandatory vaccinations. Other people value the personal freedom to be stupid higher than preventing avoidable deaths, and these people would naturally be against mandatory vaccinations.
Now lets talk about Sweden!
Why? Ah, nevermind, you're not interested in a real discussion. Your post history reveals that you're an anti-vaxx troll. Anyway, Sweden should also have had mandatory vaccinations.
I'd like to have this discussion, or at least hear what you have to say. When reviewing overall infections to related deaths, why should Sweden have also done this?
Okay, here we go. Sweden implemented voluntary measures that were naturally somewhat less effective than in countries with stricter health measures. Therefore, deaths among the older population could have been avoided by enforcing a mandatory vaccination. Notice that the vaccination rate is still not very high in Sweden, it's currently 73.3% (75.1% 1 dose), compared to my country Portugal with 86.1% (94.7% 1 dose). As for how many infected die, this depends on a large extent on the overall health of the population (e.g. obesity rates, prior diseases) and quality of health system. You cannot compare very *different* countries in that respect very easily. For instance, the fatality rates among hospitalized patients were high in Portugal due to a combination of factors. It wouldn't make much sense to compare this to Sweden or Germany, for example, without also taking into account other factors like the health budget, the number of ICUs, risk factors of the affected population (e.g. asthma, obesity), age structure, etc. For example, at the outbreak in 2020, for some often criticized reasons Germany had an order of magnitude more ICUs per capita than most other European countries. So it's not surprising that at least initially the case fatality rate in Germany was very low. If your point is that Sweden's health system was good enough to keep the fatality rates low, that's a point that has been made. That's why I called it a political issue. I disagree, though. Many deaths could have been avoided with stricter measures, and particularly with fast mandatory vaccination campaigns. Sweden's Covid politics failed in comparison to its neighboring countries, which are most similar to it.\[1\] As the statistics indicate very clearly, at least half of the Covid-related deaths in Sweden could have been avoided. For instance, the total number of Covid deaths in Norway so far is 63 per hundred thousand inhabitants, versus 234 per hundred thousand inhabitants in Sweden. I should mention that overall Sweden's Covid response was still reasonable and not too different from other European countries. What went on in the US was a total disaster in comparison and embarrassing since the US was supposed to be the country the most prepared for such epidemics. It seems that the political constellation in the US at the time was particularly unsuitable for a rational and unified response to such a large health crisis. Overall, it is fairly clear that mandatory campaigns would have been particularly useful in countries with less strict health measures / higher individual freedom such as Sweden or low compliance levels such as the US. As the example of Portugal shows, with high compliance and reasonably strict health measures mandatory vaccinations were not necessary. But they wouldn't have harmed either. \[1\] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-nordics/
>If your point is that Sweden's health system was good enough to keep the fatality rates low, that's a point that has been made. This actually wasn't my point. I was just reviewing graphs for different countries (mainly comparing Sweden to the US), and the charts have all the same spikes and dips with numbers relative to the population. I guess my point is more that if they had a relatively similar outcome (compared to other countries), was it worth it to put the stress of lockdowns on citizens? I don't think that question is easily answered and I'm not saying I have that answer. But I do appreciate the time you took to craft this response. One of the best things people can do is to understand and learn other perspectives.
Okay, I see and also understood you that way. That was the argument in Sweden initially. I think it's based on two problematic assumptions. First, Sweden did much worse than neighboring countries according to preliminary analyses, so the premise seems wrong. More can only be said in hindsight with careful statistical study. Second, in my personal opinion you should primarily compare estimates of the effects of different courses of action *within your country.* How many deaths can be prevented? How much does this cost? How does it restrict personal freedom? Fast mandatory vaccination campaigns would have prevented many deaths in almost any country and would have only cost a tiny bit more resources. They would also have allowed many countries to relax measure earlier, increasing personal freedom and aiding economy. The real reason why they didn't happen is political. The benefits are only visible in comparison to counterfactuals ("had we not vaccinated, then..."). Such counterfactual statements are easy to attack, and no politician wanted to take the risk of the poisoned debate afterwards.
Saying you don't believe a vaccine should be mandatory is not a "conspiracy theory" per se just making the case it should be up to the individual to decide for themselves.
Same as leaving it up to the individual not to park their car in the middle of a train track. It's a stupid decision that gets others killed.
And you're welcome to believe that. You are not welcome to force a vaccine on somebody.
"You're welcome to believe drunk driving is dangerous, but you are not welcome to force me to drive sober" People act like government setting rules for health and safety has never been done before.
we have laws against drunk driving. that's not a body autonomy issue
There's laws against pissing on the street, sitting naked on a public bench, etc. When it starts affecting the health of others, it goes beyond body autonomy. And it was never illegal to not have the vaccine to the point of arrest, so this fantasy of being oppressed ya'll have is exactly that: a fantasy.
It was never illegal to not get a vaccine period, because such a law would immediately be declared unconstitutional and struck down. And for the record, of course I get vaccines, I'm not an idiot, I just don't believe anybody should be forced to. You do you, I do me, that guy does that guy.
Forced how, then?
Nobody is being forced to get a vaccine. I never said that. I said it would be wrong/illegal if that were the law, but it's not, because such a law would never stand. Anyway have a nice day.
But you are probably for abortions, am I right?
False equivalence, but I'm glad you can pretend that you're being clever so you can feel proud of yourself.
a lot of the measures against covid fall into "if you do something right no one will be sure you did anything at all" and theres not much more to say about it. theres no point talking about a conspiracy theorist's favourite thing because they do not want to have a conversation they want to parrot their favourite influencer at you and hope you fall for the bait.
The vaccines are safe and effective. What are the conspiracies?
Most true and tested vaccines are! The Covid shot is not a vaccine! Stop calling it that!
> The Covid shot is not a vaccine According to who, some random youtuber? Maybe focus more on the fact that *you're not a doctor*. According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, one of the definitions of a vaccine is: > a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)
That was updated to follow their false narrative. Try looking at a paper copy of a dictionary, pre-2019.
Hey, news flash - technology advances! Know what the dictionary used to say for "car"? > A small vehicle moved on wheels, usually drawn by one horse.
Keep believing that!
So...you're saying technology *doesn't* advance? Were you using 5G to stream movies on your mobile device 20 years ago? Did your car have built-in GPS back then?
You're not making any sense! They changed the definition to fit their Mrna narrative! What don't you get? It's not a vaccine!
> It's not a vaccine According to who? All the doctors and scientists call it a vaccine. Are you in any way qualified to dispute them? Where'd you go to medical school?
If you hear something enough, you believe it to be true.
No, they’re wrong
Right about what? None of these statements are a conspiracy theory. Something being "wrong" is not the same as claiming Bill Gates tries to controll your mind.
>is not the same as claiming Bill Gates tries to controll your mind While this definitely happened, I do believe most vaccine apprehensive individuals had concerns regarding health complications. Which there have been plenty of adverse reactions documented, just not enough to make it anything more than anecdotes. So to answer OPs question, I think some of them were right. But if we're gonna lump all of them into "bill gates microchip", then yeah... It's easy to dismiss all of them.
Gee. I wonder where people got the idea that vaccines were worthy of health concerns? Conspiracy theorists publishing bullshit? Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
I think you're having a confusing moment between correlation and causation.
I pay no attention to them. These folks are the same ones who probably peaked in high school, drive very big trucks that cost $200 to fill up with Let’s Go Brandon stickers adorning the bumper. Their opinions don’t matter to me whatsoever.
It's easier to dismiss everyone you disagree with when you lump them all into a group of idiots, isn't it?
But they are idiots…
Well, yeah, I am. I'm libertarian, so that speaks for itself. But that's besides to point.
The rationale matters here. "Vaccine mandates are bad because they infringe on my freedom" - this stance is grounded in their ethics, believing that some death is preferable to restricting individual liberty. They are not wrong or right because this is an opinion. "Vaccine mandates are bad because the vaccines don't work" - this is wrong, as there is ample evidence that they do work. "Vaccine mandates are bad because we have herd immunity" - this is now right but was wrong before. The US had herd immunity after the vaccines became available, and the vaccines themselves contributed to that immunity. The question needs to be clearer to be answered.
Vaccines reduce symptoms when you get sick, so you are leas likely to die, reduce likelihood of getting sick therefore reducing the spread, reducing the number of people who get sick at the same time, increasing the likelihood that there are free beds in hospitals for the severe cases. What exactly are they right about? Edit: I see some people here value their feelings above facts https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221008572
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I have never listened to CNN in my life. I don't really care what the TV had to say about science anyway. I only go by what studies say https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221008572 Remember facts don't care about your feelings
Unfortunely "Passion rules reason, for better or for worse"
Prove it.
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Anecdotal evidence is not evidence, otherwise I would be proof they work, since I'm vaccinated and have never had any symptoms.
Not my first pandemic. These things happen before. You live long enough you’ll experience
Lotta folks commenting on vaccine mandates without understanding that herd immunity relies on everyone working together, you cant “my choice” your way out of a global pandemic
The herd immunity is referring to everybody receiving natural antibodies via infection, its never been used to refer to getting vaccinated unless you maybe fell for some shitty propaganda. People didn't choose to get COVID.
You’re wrong about that, it absolutely does refer to immunity collectively gained through vaccination, and have also misunderstood my post
Dumbass libertarian
The most obvious one is the lab leak theory. Anyone who mentioned this was banned on social media and called a conspiracy theorist. Now it seems pretty obvious COVID escaped from a Wuhan lab to anyone whose looked into it at all (former CDC director concluded it based on the biology of the virus, US intelligence concluded it based on analysis of Chinese communications, lay man can conclude it based on mountains of circumstantial evidence, etc). Conspiracy theorists were also right that masks don’t work. Seems like the research now is pretty clear cloth masks do nothing, surgical masks probably do nothing, and N95s maybe do something but no study has been able to prove it. Conspiracy theorists were also correct that the vaccines don’t work against the spread. This was obvious for a few months prior to the CDC and pharma admitting it (now they claim they never said it protected against cases….) Conspiracy theorists were also correct that the vaccine does pose real side effects. It does cause heart issues in some young men. There’s a lot of evidence it affected women’s periods. So while it might have been a good societal trade for everyone to get vaxed, the idea that it was safe because the spike proteins would just stay locally at the injection site and not further interact with the body is not really true. Also, not sure if it counts as a conspiracy theorist or not but conspiracy theorists were right that for people under the age of 50 (and maybe even younger than 65), the mortality risk of COVID was equal to or far less than the flu. Again, COVID was much more dangerous to 80 year olds so this depends on how nuanced your “conspiracy theorist” was - but it was something the media was clearly wrong on.
Idk about conspiracy theories, but we almost lost the right to have any say over what gets injected into our bodies, and six months later we're all supposed to be outraged over my body my choice
They were overall right. The shots were bad, Covid came from a lab, etc.
No.
The original scientific argument for Vaccine mandates was that if enough people got vaccinated the it would be harder to spread and mutate. This was true for Delta but once it mutated into Omicron it became able to reinfect vaccinated people making a vaccine mandate less effective so it was dropped. So to summarize it was sound policy to have a vaccine mandate for the deadlier Delta strain but the less deadly but more infectious Omicron strain made it an ineffective policy so it was dropped
If the vaccine worked then the worried people would get it and leave others alone, not a cool thing to push on people imo
There was talk at the very beginning about herd immunity, that no matter what we did everyone was going to get it. Obviously at that time nobody on either side could completely know the pay of COVID, but they were mostly vindicated. Still good to not have overwhelmed hispitals
Haha, you are spewing the exact info they are feeding you! How can you call it a vaccine, if it didn't prevent you from catching it?
How do you shut them up? I’d say: shut the fuck up you ignorant buffoon . Just do what you want for your own stupid ass, and I will do what I want. But remember, if you’re dying from any number of preventable diseases, I’d ask you to go quietly
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That's easy! vaers dot hhs dot gov