depends on her life situation. if shes able to, but not willing, red flag. if shes just struggling to make ends meet and would be willing if she had it, thats different.
heres my rule of thumb...whoever invites, pays.
if you invite someone out, then expect them to pay, youre an asshole.
OP doesnt need to pay for every date, but not every date needs to cost money. they can go for walks, do free tours/museums, go to the beach, or whatever. they can take turns cooking more frugal home cooked meals instead of always going to expensive places...thats what a transition to a more domestic relationship looks like.
But here is the problem. Once you get actually into a relationship, and it is not early dating anymore, there really isn’t any more “inviting.” Now you are making mutual plans.
And I think that changes things. Were I the OP, that is how I would have framed this: you are not some girl I’m inviting on dates; you are now my girlfriend, I consider us to be in a relationship of mutual enjoyment. And I would like us to address our expenses in a mutual way.
I hate the dating scene so much. I "dated" a girl for almost a year once, but neither of us verbally "made it official". So appearently we weren't boyfriend/girlfriend and she'd been doing the same with other guys. I then found out from others it was "my fault" because I never stated we were in a relationship. Not just a few people, a lot of people said that.
My point, it's appearently more common than some think to not be considered officially together unless it's stated.
Edit: classic reddit. I won't be replying to any more relating to this comment. It's like listening to a broken record. This comment wasn't strictly about "my fault or her fault", it was to share that you can't just assume you're in a relationship. That's it. Whether you think that's obvious or not is irrelevant.
I grew up in Europe and now live in the US the making it official is something I learnt over here. Maybe I was lucky but n europe if we went on dates every week for a few months you were a thing.. so one of us would introduce the other one to friends as gf or bf.. over here I learnt that unless I said exactly what I thought it was the other one would assume it was just casual dating.. very weird for me
I swear the whole "making it official" thing in the US stems from when they were all in middle school amd you would literally have to ask someone to go out with you.
Interesting because I've also had this experience here as well as in the UK. However it seemed for most couples I met in the UK that this wasn't the norm and their relationship developed more organically, like what you describe in Europe. I wonder if it's just the guy I was seeing because he had a lot of social connections to the US. But yeah, it's strange to me as well.
I thought this was just common practice. Every time I've been ready to enter a relationship with someone I have had that conversation.
It's always been a "Hey, just fyi I'm not interested in seeing other people. How do you feel about it?"
I've never had someone not reciprocate at that point but if they were unwilling to, I'd at least know where I stood. It's also less awkward than asking another adult if they'll be your girlfriend/boyfriend.
That's a level of communication and reasonableness that many of us aspire to, but never actually reach. I've rehearsed that sort of thing a bunch of times in my head, usually when I should be sleeping, but never managed to get my mouth to say the words well at all.
No, this is really just an American/Canadian thing. In most of the world a few dates=dating, and "talking around" isn't really accepted.
In a lot of areas actually, you have sex? You're dating. One party or the other will be extremely offended or angry if that's not the case.
Why would you go an entire year without having a conversation about your relationship, and expect things not to end badly? How is it "the dating scene's" fault that you did not choose to ask a basic and very normal question like "how do you see our relationship"? Relationships are work - it's like building a house and communication is the mortar that sticks the bricks together. You didnt even pick up a single scoop of mortar, and you're mad that your house fell down?
I am married to a woman who I am dead certain loves me truly, and I have been with her for well over a decade, and we still touch base about how we're both feeling about our relationship every month or so. Golden rule in all relationships: the more you communicate, the more you get what you want. That's a fundamental fact of existence, like gravity. It applies to all relationships and always has and always will. It has nothing to do with the "dating scene".
I once spent Thanksgiving and Christmas with a guy and his whole family. His mom even bought me presents. He then got pissed because I assumed we were dating and going to spend NYE together.
That's *exactly* how I feel. Is it on me for not communicating to make sure we're on the same page? Sure. Is it still a cop out for her to just continue sleeping with other people? 100%.
That or she’s some trad-fem weirdo, and that seems almost scarier.
People are also fed a lot of stupid bullshit in their formative years, so maybe she had some dingleberry adult tell her that unless a dude is willing to go into the red to make you happy he doesn’t love you. A simple convo about equality within a relationship and working as a team, blah blah blah, might be all it takes to get things on track.
god DAMN that "unless a dude is willing to go into the red" strikes hard.
There's some people out there who need their partner to sacrifice themselves to stoke a fragile ego.
Saw some horrible clip of a dude, speaking with the rhythm of a black baptist preacher, if that helps you visualize. Telling you how to win over a lady you're dating and it was the worst shit I've ever seen. All nice stuff obviously, but basically treating her like a charity case, and the unspoken reasoning seemed to be she'd feel reliant on you.
First date should be taking her to the grocery store, you each get your own cart, but at the checkout pay for both. Make sure you take her car because then you go to target, but you drop her off and then fill up her tank. Then you come back and pay for her target shopping, and it continued like this. Dude was basically recommending a $1,000 first date of nothing but day to day shopping
First date. It was wild
Oh I want to say this carefully because I know it’s becoming somewhat of a meme online, but it is somewhat true that most of the men who worry about women only wanting their money make like $40,000 a year. Men who are making upwards of $200,000 a year don’t even really log who’s paying for what when we’re talking about 100 bucks here and there. And usually, most of those men don’t really mind if they can get a woman who would normally never date them but is, simply because of that money.
With that said, it’s bad manners to never even offer to pay for oneself no matter what the income differential. And even if someone insists on paying for you repeatedly, you can do something else like get them coffee on the way without asking or get them a small gift just so you don’t appear ungrateful. Some people weren’t raised well and it shows.
As a person that's struggling.... Yeah no.
I invite the guy I'm interested in to dates that I can afford to partake in.
Usually a cup of coffee and a walk through the scenery.
I feel super uncomfortable when someone has to keep paying for me.
If he's ever closed just very very carefully nudge his cardboard box to wake him up, then jump back to avoid his reflexive knife swipe, then tell him you're there for the stuff. Ten-bag Harry's Opioid Emporium never turns down a sale.
Even if this were true, inviting someone for ice cream is a very cheap activity that someone that might be interested in you could offer to pay. If you can’t afford to pay for a $5 ice cream cone after TEN dates you’re just manipulative and taking OP for a ride.
I asked my last girlfriend out first. I paid. She asked for a second date and she paid. She had gone back to university so money was tight but she told me this outright so we figured out something to do within her price range and kept it frugal and had a great time. Eventually we got to a point where it just stopped mattering.
I so strongly disagree with whoever invites the other is expected to pay. It doesn’t make any sense to me to expect someone else to pay for you just because they were the one to create the plan to go out. I’ve always expected to pay for myself and expected the same out of anyone I dated. If someone wants to offer when the bill arrives then great, that’s super kind of them. But to expect it seems entitled to me
This is what I don't understand. If I invite someone out, I'm usually happy to pay, because I planned to invite them, so I budget for the cost, but if I'm invited I always offer to pay my half, and if the person I invited offers to pay their half, I accept.
If someone invited me and I'm broke, I always accept with a "heck I'd love to, but I'm afraid you'll be paying cuz I'm broke!" That gives them the knowledge upfront that it's their responsibility.
Exactly. If I invite my friends out, am I expected yo always pay? And people may say ‘It’s a date so It’s different’ but we have to admit that the man is expected to initiate the vast majority of the time (and if you need proof just look at men vs. women when initiating conversations on dating apps).
>heres my rule of thumb...whoever invites, pays.
I hate this phrase soo much, because very rarely she invites, suggests a date.
So it comes to the age old….The Guy has to pay because he is the one doing the “asking out on a date/invite”
Also general sentiment of a lot of women/girls is still “oh he has to make the first move/he has to ask me out”
“So whoever invites” is just a rephrasing of “The guy still has to pay”
I feel like the whole ‘whoever invites, pays’ rule is a bit outdated. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, you should expect to pay for your own things. If you can’t afford it you should politely turn down the date beforehand.
> whoever invites, pays
Yeah you might as well just say your rule of thumb is that the guy always has to pay, since the guy is expected to initiate everything. If the guy doesn’t invite her, he’s not going on a date. Someone else is, though.
Bollocks. 50/50 unless one person states they want to treat the other. It doesn't matter who brings up the idea to go out. It takes two to make a date, and if you both want to get to know each other, you should be on a level playing field. Anything else is old-fashioned nonsense
You are missing the point. Women rarely initiate dates. They simply have no need when desperate men are knocking on their metaphorical door all day long.
So when they make up rules like "Who ever plans the date pays", it translates as "I love to put forward the image of gender equality, but I'm still not going to pay"
It’s an archaic way of thinking.
You also seem to be forgetting that it’s traditionally the guy that invited the girl out on all the dates too lol.
OP should just understand that this girl expects to be paid for when they go out on dates. It’s not right or wrong, it’s just the expectations she grew up around.
If that bothers OP too much, he may want to consider moving on.
“Whoever invites pays” is a legitimately brain dead mantra when conventional wisdom dictates that men ask out women. It’s not really some intelligent ethos you’re spouting, it’s simply a way to justify the status quo.
> heres my rule of thumb...whoever invites, pays.
>
>
This is a genuinely bad rule of thumb for most dating because 95% of dates are initiated by men, and society expects them to initiate. So that results in... men almost always paying.
Exception being if you invite someone to a fancy place you know they can't afford. But I usually add a "my treat"
I think if she was struggling more, she would have casually made her hardships known by now, or at least reacted tenderly instead of immediately getting defensive. She says you don't even love me? After 10 dates.. weird
Society puts immense pressure on men to make the first move, so it's usually going to be the men who are doing the inviting. It's messed up to assume that they should always be the ones who pay. After all, the ones being invited can turn it down if they aren't willing to pay their fair share.
One side isn't anymore important than the other. Men don't owe women anything just like women don't owe men anything. Bills should be split evenly to reflect that. It's not as though women are doing men a favor by accepting the date and deserve to be compensated for it.
If both sides are coming to the table equally, which is ultimately the goal we should be trying to achieve, the only option that makes sense is for them both to leave the table equally. That means splitting the bill.
If she’s not doing something to contribute in another way to your relationship then She’s not looking for a partner. Do you want a partner or do you want to be a provider?
Lots of women simply expect to be pampered by their man, which made sense when women literally weren’t allowed to be self sufficient. It’s also enabled by weak willed men who will dump money into a woman just to get their dick wet.
I don’t want to blame women like this because social pressures put them in this situation where it’s kind of what’s expected. But it sucks when a woman lacks self awareness or refuses to introspect about it, and then I feel like I’m being used because I’m not cheap, but I’m frugal and my job is more about my passion than my paycheck.
Why not take her on ten completely free dates and see if she's grateful. Doesn't sound like she appreciated the first ten since she never offered to even split a bill but this would just be extra proof. Edit: y'all it's a joke, I didn't think it'd blow up this much. It's funny to me that he even had ten when she wasn't even going halfsies so I figured he's this dedicated, might as well throw ten more down.
That’s actually not a bad idea. Make all the next ten dates impossible to spend money during and see how she responds. If she consistently can’t seem to appreciate the dates, then you have your answer.
I mean back when I had what qualified for a good relationship, wo would sometimes just go to the park and throw a frisbee, it poke stop at the sculpture garden (there's five.) Walk e bike trail, even if you don't want to go fully free a walk on a sunny day to get ice cream. or go hiking and play stoner and sober leader, always fun. She had a thing for finding swing sets and doing that for a few hours. Anyway some ideas for op
edit: I didn't respond to op... I responded to a comment, oh screw it I'm leaving this anyway
Go on a hike, one smokes a full joint, the other gets the second hand. Sober leads for 10 minutes, then stoner ‘chooses the adventure’ as it were. Sober switches in later leading to a new spot, rinse and repeat until your both laughing like idiots.
**High**-ly recommend.
I'm old-school Food TV, back when they had actual good cooking shows.
Jamie Oliver's Naked Chef had an episode where he and Jooles were going on a date. It was to a park. And he wanted to cook up the best picnic for her. The whole episode was him cooking up a picnic.
It was one of my favorite Naked Chef episodes.
Walks, hiking, geocaching, picnics where you both pack some food (not totally free obviously but good!), community events (some places do free summer concert series), hanging out a beach or park, watching a movie at home, you can sometimes get museums passes from the library, some libraries have events….
I love these, my SO and I would have the nicest pic-nics in the summer... find a nice spot near a lake and watch the sunset. Better memories than a pretentious restaurant. I loved it. He once surprised me with a bonfire at the beach, music, wine, pillows, a blanket.... dates dont have to be expensive to be impressive if you are willing to put in some work. I remember this one girl walked by us while my boyfriend was arranging things around me and stopped, looked at me and said "wow... you must feel special!" .... then looked at her boyfriend and asked "where is my romantic bonfire?" 🤭
I’m on my 3rd wild swimming date with my new gf and she loves it. I have MS and she has Fibromialgia and it’s really good for both of our health. I’m terrified I’ve misspelled Fibro… and ‘both of our healths’ sounded wrong but I’m mad at myself now
Catching a goose. Laughing by the river. Catching a lot more geese. Attaching them to the sleigh. Flying the sleigh to the bank, masks on people, we go in fast and nobody gets hurt.
Cuz she'll lie about it. I wouldn't waste another 10 but maybe two or three to see her true actions. But I've also learned that if I have to do allll that, it's just not worth it.
You are an adult, you get to decide what kind of relationships you want in your life. Do you want one where you pay every time, and she doesn't? If not, then either dump her or talk to her to try and get her to understand and see your point and change.
You don't need the internet to agree with you to make decisions on what kind of relationships you want.
I did with my last relationship lol both in our late 20s
We hit date number 10 and I looked at him and said “so does this make you my boyfriend or something?” And he thought it was cute that I had kept track.
Some people are just sentimental
My girlfriend and I have been together for 16 months and I have a feeling she knows how many dates we have been on. She is very sentimental, and I wouldn't be surprised if she kept a list so she could revisit some of out dates.
Yeah totally. Or, and hear me out, he's a child since that's the most obvious explanation.
But you're right, they could also be from Botswana and we just don't get the context. We wouldnt want to jump to conclusions and assume the most obvious situation is the actual situation lol
It sounds like he just need to actually talk. Me, I always pay for dates but thats just because I dont mind doing so. But everyone is different. He needs to tell her whats up and if she keeps on deflecting then he needs to move on asap.
Damn you guys make BANK in the US. Like, I know your cost of living is high and so it balances, bit it blows my mind that a week's groceries here is like pocket change to you guys
Eg, to get 2 pizzas and a bottle of wine (with 15% tip) costs the converted equivalent of US $10.77. And that's not nasty ass domino's, that's wood fired quality.
That being said I work a (well above standard pay) 10 hour day for US $18.50 so I guess...
Edit to add: when I say well above standard, I should clarify I am working a minimum wage job, but I get paid just under double min wage as my boss doesn't want me to leave :) it's too hard to replace people willing to work this job under the conditions I do lol
Not on my list of potential places to move for a lot of different reasons lol.
Even though cost of living is very high, a lot of people in well of countries like the US don't realize how wealthy they are on a global scale. If you make something around 40k USD (which is just a bit above personal average and much lower than household average) you are already making more than like 90% of the world's population.
You and your girlfriend might just have different values. Some women and men want the man to pay for everything. She might’ve grown up in a family like that, so that’s her expectation. Think about your own expectations. Do you want to be in a relationship where you pay for everything? If you want her to contribute, just talk to her about it. And if you’re not on the same page, then it’s okay to move on and find someone with the same values as you.
Yup exactly. Women from traditional cultures, or with traditional values, may be dating with the intent of marrying a man who provides for the family and is glad for her to be a SAHM. If that’s what they’re looking for, then of course they don’t want to pay on dates, and a man wanting them to pay would be a red flag for them during the vetting process. If that’s *not* what the guy is looking for, then there’s a fundamental mismatch. But really, this requires a conversation about what each person’s vision of an LTR would be.
If both people are looking for an LTR or marriage in which each is expected to financially contribute and tasks aren’t divided along gender lines, then her insisting on him paying throughout the dating process makes no sense. She needs to be picking up tabs too.
I had a friend when I was younger who was the very traditional type, Chinese background, virginity until marriage, that sort of thing. She did not want to pay on dates, and she was looking for a guy who made decent money. Makes sense, yeah?
I otoh am 100% on board with modern gender roles and always paid 50% while dating. I’m now married and we each contribute to the household income and expect this will continue indefinitely, he does make a bit more than me but I wouldn’t mind passing him someday.
Why is this the only reasonable response?
She isn't abusing him. She isn't cheap. This is her expectation of what a boyfriend does.
He can either talk to her and explain that her expectation of him is wrong and that they can meet somewhere in the middle or they can go their separate ways and find people more suited for them.
My wife and I had a lot... like a LOT of conversations about money before we got married. She's from a country where men work and just give all their money to the wife.... while I'd say most Americans are pretty open to making a financial plan as a couple and working together to understand their financial needs.
We had many arguments but came to an understanding about it. At first, she thought I didn't trust her with money. It wasn't until I explained that I've been at points in my life where I could only afford to eat rice for weeks at a time, and being involved in my finances is important to me.
It came to understanding each other. We work things out. The worst that happens is you realize you're not compatible. The best outcome is that you're both able to understand and put your differences aside. If you're not able to do B, it's someone you don't want to be with forever anyway.
If my expectation of a girlfriend was that she stayed barefoot in the kitchen making me meals and giving me morning blowjobs every day, that wouldn't be abusive but people would probably still judge me for having shitty expectations.
If you think a boyfriend should pay for everything then I'd say you are cheap. Not saying your abusive, but you are cheap.
Wait, I thought the whole post is about him asking and her getting upset that he asked? Obviously he isn't on board, but wanted to see if the majority opinion is that he should be on board. All you had to say is that if he doesn't like her answer, he should leave.
This needs to be higher. A lot of people are taught that men always pay for dates, splitting the bill seems to be a more modern change. If you believe that it's his responsibility to pay, then him shirking that could feel cheap or like he doesn't value you- like if he buys you flowers but expects you to pay him back.
Op, talk to your girlfriend. Don't assume she's evil over one (1) fight.
Did y’all discuss what roles y’all were gonna play when y’all got together? Sounds like she is used to dating guys that don’t mind paying and you are used to dating girls that chip in. Just different styles and not compatible.
To flip the script, by her own logic, if she's not willing to contribute to the relationship that must mean that she doesn't like you that much,
Personally I'd dump her, to me it seems like she's looking for a wallet with legs rather than a boyfriend, but you're there and actually know her,
Maybe that's her idea of a relationship between a man and a woman, which would still be a major red flag for me personally but would at least mean that it's not malicious
This. If being a wallet with legs is the game, then at least play that game with open eyes and with whatever you need out of the relationship clearly identified.
You not bringing up money for the first 10 dates might have set a wrong precedent that you were going to be the financial provider in the relationship.
If you’re not okay with that arrangement you just need to break up with her because it seems like that’s the only arrangement that’s acceptable for her.
Ask her what she expects to contribute from her half of the relationship. If you feel it's a fair trade, proceed. Otherwise, tell her it's best to stop dating each other.
Tiny dissent from he majority here—tone and context matter. There are ways to have that conversation (which definitely ought to have happened earlier) that genuinely does reflect the idea that you don't like her. Like if you had been building up resentment for 10 dates and then sprung this on her giving the whole "I've waited patiently for TEN DATES for you to offer to contribute" in a way that reflects irritation, her first reaction COULD be to the tone of your request rather than the fairness of its content.
Anyway, if you're able to bring up the subject more neutrality, asking about her financial situation and wanting to make sure things are feeling fair, and she starts pulling this kind of stuff, ignore everything I said earlier.
But just wanted to throw this ONE other possibility out there in case that might have been what's going on.
That’s where my idea came in. Like for me and my bf we grew up in families where the woman just doesn’t pay for dates. If I pulled out my wallet during a date to pay for any part of dinner it would signal to him that I am either insanely pissed or breaking up with him. The only exception at this point is when we’re tipping and he asks if I have cash.
This absolutely was a convo OP needed to have earlier on to set expectations.
Is there a huge age difference or income difference? Like is she still in uni or something? When did you bring it up?
If you brought it up after eating at a restaurant you picked and she can’t afford the bill … well - I can see why she reacted that way, but she should calm down and think about what she can offer.
If you’re both working adults, and she can’t afford to pay, you guys should do something she can afford half the time or so - maybe a movie night in and she makes the meal, or a picnic in the park. So you both put in effort and contribute to the relationship.
Otherwise it’s not your company she enjoys but the free stuff.
Perhaps you two should plan ahead and talk about it somewhere that doesn’t cost any money.
I believe both feelings are valid. You both clearly grew up with different morals when it comes to being in a relationship and going on dates, and that’s totally fine.
Personally, I have been in a almost four year relationship and my boyfriend pays for 99% of our dates. The only times I pay are for his birthdays. That’s because he grew up in a household where he was told that he should pay for everything, and I grew up in a household being told that the man should pay for everything. So it completely worked out for us and wasn’t a problem on either end. There was a point in the middle of our relationship where he was tight with money and asked me to pay (lasted maybe 2 months) and I was in accordance with that. I did not mind at all, but once he was good with money, he never let me touch my wallet again.
I know it’s only been 10 dates, but if you really like her and see a future with her, I believe you need to speak to her about this more because financial opinions are really important in a relationship. If anything, the most important.
For instance, once a couple wants to move in together, it’s important to know what they expect from each other. There are men who say they will pay all the bills and the woman can just purchase things like food or some don’t even want the woman to pay a dime on household items or bills and whatever money she makes, is hers. There are others who would like to go 50/50 on everything. At the end of the day, what matters is that it works out for the both of you.
Your feelings are 100% valid and you have the right to want her to contribute, but she also has the right to not want to.
The way you asked this has a big influence on the situation. If she genuinely thought you were just being nice (eg "I'll take this one!" ten times then you suddenly say "you need to start contributing" it could be a jarring tonal shift.
If you were like "hey can you take some of the date tabs?" and she responds like that then it's a red flag about her.
Her feelings are valid for *her* and her needs for a relationship. Some partners love paying for everything and it sounds like that’s what she wants. To me this sounds like you two are not compatible. She shouldn’t make you feel bad for your needs of wanting her to contribute and she shouldn’t make you feel bad either. I would find someone else who wants to contribute and let her find a partner who pays for everything.
Idk. If you really like her, its not a big deal to pay for all dates. Some guys still believe in courting and spoiling in the beginning. Or not having sex for awhile to show her u care that much and wanna wait to make it that much more special. I've only done this with one person but it was all worth it. If shes the right one for u do what u want. It's a relationship because its between 2 ppl. Not a community project
I mean, nobody here has any context. We don't know how you brought it up, what her financial situation is, what your financial situation is, how expensive the previous dates have been, and so on. In the worst case she's either manipulative, entitled, or traditional. All of those suck (unless you want someone traditional) and you should move on. On the other hand, in the best case it could be fine.
Examples where this might be okay:
- If you have money and she's struggling, it seems reasonable for you to pay and I can see why she'd be hurt. When I got a high paying job out of college, and I would go out with people who were still broke students, I would always pay. Obviously.
- The dates so far have been extremely inexpensive (relatively) so it seems petty for you to even ask. Such as a case where you have a picnic in the park together and you pay for gas and food, or you see a cheap movie together, or you go on a hike, etc. Unless you are in a situation where you are both scraping for gas money, it might just seem petty that you would bring this up if you have been spending relatively little money.
- It's not about you paying specifically but more that she feels especially insecure about the relationship for some reason. You paying is one of the only ways you are showing 'investment' in the relationship so if you stop, her needs are no longer being met. In other words, the relationship has some problem and you paying for dates is acting as a bandaid for it.
- You brought it up in a shitty/aggressive way and she was reacting to your tone and demeanor when she said it feels like you don't like her very much. Possibly you have some kind of resentment that is peeking through and she is noticing.
These are the best case scenarios I can think of off the top of my head, but I think that my point really is that you won't know what her reaction means until you talk to her and figure out what's going on. Relationships are all about communication. I think it is more valuable for you to try to discuss it maturely together rather than asking strangers on Reddit for advice without giving any context in your post. Honestly, the right answer could be anything from leave her ASAP to investing MORE in the relationship, and nobody on Reddit has enough context to be able to tell because you didn't put it in the post.
Her reaction and refusal to start sharing the bill makes me think she's the one not liking you that much. She's taking advantage of you. Her respons is manipulative. It's something like "you'd do it if you loved me" type of manipulation.
Just letting you know, every social interaction involves manipulation.
People generally only call it manipulation when it is toxic.
Let’s assume she has an expectation from growing up that you should pay all her meals. Would you be fine with that?
Let’s assume she is using you for free food only. Are you getting enough from her to keep it up?
Let’s assume she has anxiety and just was caught off guard with the question. Would you be fine with brushing it off?
Don’t assume what she has going on. Just figure out what YOUR boundaries and expectations are before you make a move.
I don’t think she’s trying to manipulate you, our culture has just set up an expectation that men in a relationship pay for everything and that women should want a guy like that.
It’s something you should discuss with her - your mutual expectations and how to reconcile them. If you can’t then you should probably break it off.
I don't think she's manipulating you, this is just how she sees relationships. Some people think that the man should treat his woman to everything.
I'm a split things equally kind of girl so this wouldn't work for me, but I don't think she's trying to trick you or anything. She's telling you her expectations, if you don't agree then maybe best to leave because I doubt this will change
Yeah I feel like this is a gentle conversation and just by this person asking on reddit for opinions.
I wonder if they did not have the conversation gently or well its a made up fantasy scenario.
Can anyone explain how money is a woman’s problem?
You ever want kids? You want a pretty woman? You want a person who can support you emotionally? And give birth to your kids?
All of the above while giving you blowjobs and paying for stuff 50/50?
That is crazy.
I do not want my wife to work because who else would take care of kids emotional wellbeing and support.
That’s manipulative. Her feelings may still also be real but based on sexist roles and expectations that you may need to discuss constructively. Sure she can pay sometimes.
Omg. No she's not financially abusing him. She's being an entitled brat. Financial abuse is serious and it's not when some new girl you're dating doesn't want to pay for dates. Stop watering down abuse.
With no context regarding her life situation, I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt and say she's not using you. However, if some things in her life are causing her to flip out over the suggestion that she could pick up the tab at some point, she could talk to you about them. I'm not saying she owes you an explanation, but you also don't owe her meals, drinks,etc. You're not an ATM.
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depends on her life situation. if shes able to, but not willing, red flag. if shes just struggling to make ends meet and would be willing if she had it, thats different. heres my rule of thumb...whoever invites, pays. if you invite someone out, then expect them to pay, youre an asshole. OP doesnt need to pay for every date, but not every date needs to cost money. they can go for walks, do free tours/museums, go to the beach, or whatever. they can take turns cooking more frugal home cooked meals instead of always going to expensive places...thats what a transition to a more domestic relationship looks like.
But here is the problem. Once you get actually into a relationship, and it is not early dating anymore, there really isn’t any more “inviting.” Now you are making mutual plans. And I think that changes things. Were I the OP, that is how I would have framed this: you are not some girl I’m inviting on dates; you are now my girlfriend, I consider us to be in a relationship of mutual enjoyment. And I would like us to address our expenses in a mutual way.
I hate the dating scene so much. I "dated" a girl for almost a year once, but neither of us verbally "made it official". So appearently we weren't boyfriend/girlfriend and she'd been doing the same with other guys. I then found out from others it was "my fault" because I never stated we were in a relationship. Not just a few people, a lot of people said that. My point, it's appearently more common than some think to not be considered officially together unless it's stated. Edit: classic reddit. I won't be replying to any more relating to this comment. It's like listening to a broken record. This comment wasn't strictly about "my fault or her fault", it was to share that you can't just assume you're in a relationship. That's it. Whether you think that's obvious or not is irrelevant.
I grew up in Europe and now live in the US the making it official is something I learnt over here. Maybe I was lucky but n europe if we went on dates every week for a few months you were a thing.. so one of us would introduce the other one to friends as gf or bf.. over here I learnt that unless I said exactly what I thought it was the other one would assume it was just casual dating.. very weird for me
I swear the whole "making it official" thing in the US stems from when they were all in middle school amd you would literally have to ask someone to go out with you.
Middle school is unfortunately the pinnacle of some peoples' human development.
Interesting because I've also had this experience here as well as in the UK. However it seemed for most couples I met in the UK that this wasn't the norm and their relationship developed more organically, like what you describe in Europe. I wonder if it's just the guy I was seeing because he had a lot of social connections to the US. But yeah, it's strange to me as well.
I thought this was just common practice. Every time I've been ready to enter a relationship with someone I have had that conversation. It's always been a "Hey, just fyi I'm not interested in seeing other people. How do you feel about it?" I've never had someone not reciprocate at that point but if they were unwilling to, I'd at least know where I stood. It's also less awkward than asking another adult if they'll be your girlfriend/boyfriend.
Yea if you want to be with someone exclusively then you better do this at the very least.
> It's always been a "Hey, just fyi I'm not interested in seeing other people. How do you feel about it?" I like that! It's a very nice way to put it.
That's a level of communication and reasonableness that many of us aspire to, but never actually reach. I've rehearsed that sort of thing a bunch of times in my head, usually when I should be sleeping, but never managed to get my mouth to say the words well at all.
20 seconds of insane courage will often be life changing.
No, this is really just an American/Canadian thing. In most of the world a few dates=dating, and "talking around" isn't really accepted. In a lot of areas actually, you have sex? You're dating. One party or the other will be extremely offended or angry if that's not the case.
It always comes down to communication (or the lack thereof). And yeah, I too hate it. Why can’t you read my mind, dammit? lol
Why would you go an entire year without having a conversation about your relationship, and expect things not to end badly? How is it "the dating scene's" fault that you did not choose to ask a basic and very normal question like "how do you see our relationship"? Relationships are work - it's like building a house and communication is the mortar that sticks the bricks together. You didnt even pick up a single scoop of mortar, and you're mad that your house fell down? I am married to a woman who I am dead certain loves me truly, and I have been with her for well over a decade, and we still touch base about how we're both feeling about our relationship every month or so. Golden rule in all relationships: the more you communicate, the more you get what you want. That's a fundamental fact of existence, like gravity. It applies to all relationships and always has and always will. It has nothing to do with the "dating scene".
I once spent Thanksgiving and Christmas with a guy and his whole family. His mom even bought me presents. He then got pissed because I assumed we were dating and going to spend NYE together.
I've had a similar experience, and it really was a case of the guy having some major attachment issues and deep-seated fears of rejection.
"I declare...A RELATIONSHIP!" - Micheal Scott probably
I mean that just sounds like a convenient loophole for her to continue seeing other people behind your back tbh
That's *exactly* how I feel. Is it on me for not communicating to make sure we're on the same page? Sure. Is it still a cop out for her to just continue sleeping with other people? 100%.
And if she has no interest in the free dates, then that pretty much confirms the sugar daddy theory for you too.
That or she’s some trad-fem weirdo, and that seems almost scarier. People are also fed a lot of stupid bullshit in their formative years, so maybe she had some dingleberry adult tell her that unless a dude is willing to go into the red to make you happy he doesn’t love you. A simple convo about equality within a relationship and working as a team, blah blah blah, might be all it takes to get things on track.
god DAMN that "unless a dude is willing to go into the red" strikes hard. There's some people out there who need their partner to sacrifice themselves to stoke a fragile ego.
Saw some horrible clip of a dude, speaking with the rhythm of a black baptist preacher, if that helps you visualize. Telling you how to win over a lady you're dating and it was the worst shit I've ever seen. All nice stuff obviously, but basically treating her like a charity case, and the unspoken reasoning seemed to be she'd feel reliant on you. First date should be taking her to the grocery store, you each get your own cart, but at the checkout pay for both. Make sure you take her car because then you go to target, but you drop her off and then fill up her tank. Then you come back and pay for her target shopping, and it continued like this. Dude was basically recommending a $1,000 first date of nothing but day to day shopping First date. It was wild
I read this as "triad-fem" the first time but it still worked (i.e. Dark Triad personality traits)
And I read “triad-fem” as “You pay for whatever she wants, or risk the wrath of Clan Li-Feng”
Red pill / pink pill women are actually super common but people don’t call them out the same way they do with men.
I some how doubt this guy had sugar daddy money lol
Oh I want to say this carefully because I know it’s becoming somewhat of a meme online, but it is somewhat true that most of the men who worry about women only wanting their money make like $40,000 a year. Men who are making upwards of $200,000 a year don’t even really log who’s paying for what when we’re talking about 100 bucks here and there. And usually, most of those men don’t really mind if they can get a woman who would normally never date them but is, simply because of that money. With that said, it’s bad manners to never even offer to pay for oneself no matter what the income differential. And even if someone insists on paying for you repeatedly, you can do something else like get them coffee on the way without asking or get them a small gift just so you don’t appear ungrateful. Some people weren’t raised well and it shows.
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As a person that's struggling.... Yeah no. I invite the guy I'm interested in to dates that I can afford to partake in. Usually a cup of coffee and a walk through the scenery. I feel super uncomfortable when someone has to keep paying for me.
So...when can you meet me for a date at the water fountain?
Early in the day when the sun is out but not too many people buzz around.
Liquor store opens at 10am, so how does 10:01 sound?
What time does Ten-Bag Harry’s Opioid Emporium open?
If he's ever closed just very very carefully nudge his cardboard box to wake him up, then jump back to avoid his reflexive knife swipe, then tell him you're there for the stuff. Ten-bag Harry's Opioid Emporium never turns down a sale.
This guy skags.
Later in the day; when the sun is already going down. I can't afford sunscreen.
I would say if she can’t afford a date she should then recommend something they can do for free or cheap
Even if this were true, inviting someone for ice cream is a very cheap activity that someone that might be interested in you could offer to pay. If you can’t afford to pay for a $5 ice cream cone after TEN dates you’re just manipulative and taking OP for a ride.
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I asked my last girlfriend out first. I paid. She asked for a second date and she paid. She had gone back to university so money was tight but she told me this outright so we figured out something to do within her price range and kept it frugal and had a great time. Eventually we got to a point where it just stopped mattering.
I so strongly disagree with whoever invites the other is expected to pay. It doesn’t make any sense to me to expect someone else to pay for you just because they were the one to create the plan to go out. I’ve always expected to pay for myself and expected the same out of anyone I dated. If someone wants to offer when the bill arrives then great, that’s super kind of them. But to expect it seems entitled to me
This is what I don't understand. If I invite someone out, I'm usually happy to pay, because I planned to invite them, so I budget for the cost, but if I'm invited I always offer to pay my half, and if the person I invited offers to pay their half, I accept. If someone invited me and I'm broke, I always accept with a "heck I'd love to, but I'm afraid you'll be paying cuz I'm broke!" That gives them the knowledge upfront that it's their responsibility.
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Exactly. If I invite my friends out, am I expected yo always pay? And people may say ‘It’s a date so It’s different’ but we have to admit that the man is expected to initiate the vast majority of the time (and if you need proof just look at men vs. women when initiating conversations on dating apps).
>heres my rule of thumb...whoever invites, pays. I hate this phrase soo much, because very rarely she invites, suggests a date. So it comes to the age old….The Guy has to pay because he is the one doing the “asking out on a date/invite” Also general sentiment of a lot of women/girls is still “oh he has to make the first move/he has to ask me out” “So whoever invites” is just a rephrasing of “The guy still has to pay”
I feel like the whole ‘whoever invites, pays’ rule is a bit outdated. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, you should expect to pay for your own things. If you can’t afford it you should politely turn down the date beforehand.
> whoever invites, pays Yeah you might as well just say your rule of thumb is that the guy always has to pay, since the guy is expected to initiate everything. If the guy doesn’t invite her, he’s not going on a date. Someone else is, though.
Bollocks. 50/50 unless one person states they want to treat the other. It doesn't matter who brings up the idea to go out. It takes two to make a date, and if you both want to get to know each other, you should be on a level playing field. Anything else is old-fashioned nonsense
Yes, why does that take have 800 upvotes. If someone asked me to do something for me to assume they are going to pay for me is insane.
Because redditors are dense as fuck and will happily upvote trite meaningless sayings.
You are missing the point. Women rarely initiate dates. They simply have no need when desperate men are knocking on their metaphorical door all day long. So when they make up rules like "Who ever plans the date pays", it translates as "I love to put forward the image of gender equality, but I'm still not going to pay"
It’s an archaic way of thinking. You also seem to be forgetting that it’s traditionally the guy that invited the girl out on all the dates too lol. OP should just understand that this girl expects to be paid for when they go out on dates. It’s not right or wrong, it’s just the expectations she grew up around. If that bothers OP too much, he may want to consider moving on.
“Whoever invites pays” is a legitimately brain dead mantra when conventional wisdom dictates that men ask out women. It’s not really some intelligent ethos you’re spouting, it’s simply a way to justify the status quo.
US is so weird. Dates are 50-50 split.
> heres my rule of thumb...whoever invites, pays. > > This is a genuinely bad rule of thumb for most dating because 95% of dates are initiated by men, and society expects them to initiate. So that results in... men almost always paying. Exception being if you invite someone to a fancy place you know they can't afford. But I usually add a "my treat"
I think if she was struggling more, she would have casually made her hardships known by now, or at least reacted tenderly instead of immediately getting defensive. She says you don't even love me? After 10 dates.. weird
Society puts immense pressure on men to make the first move, so it's usually going to be the men who are doing the inviting. It's messed up to assume that they should always be the ones who pay. After all, the ones being invited can turn it down if they aren't willing to pay their fair share. One side isn't anymore important than the other. Men don't owe women anything just like women don't owe men anything. Bills should be split evenly to reflect that. It's not as though women are doing men a favor by accepting the date and deserve to be compensated for it. If both sides are coming to the table equally, which is ultimately the goal we should be trying to achieve, the only option that makes sense is for them both to leave the table equally. That means splitting the bill.
That rule is only commonplace because men are expected to invite women and not vice versa
99.9% of women do not initiate men out on dates. So by your rule the man always pays.
If she’s not doing something to contribute in another way to your relationship then She’s not looking for a partner. Do you want a partner or do you want to be a provider?
Lots of women simply expect to be pampered by their man, which made sense when women literally weren’t allowed to be self sufficient. It’s also enabled by weak willed men who will dump money into a woman just to get their dick wet. I don’t want to blame women like this because social pressures put them in this situation where it’s kind of what’s expected. But it sucks when a woman lacks self awareness or refuses to introspect about it, and then I feel like I’m being used because I’m not cheap, but I’m frugal and my job is more about my passion than my paycheck.
This, run. She looking for a free ride
Why not take her on ten completely free dates and see if she's grateful. Doesn't sound like she appreciated the first ten since she never offered to even split a bill but this would just be extra proof. Edit: y'all it's a joke, I didn't think it'd blow up this much. It's funny to me that he even had ten when she wasn't even going halfsies so I figured he's this dedicated, might as well throw ten more down.
That’s actually not a bad idea. Make all the next ten dates impossible to spend money during and see how she responds. If she consistently can’t seem to appreciate the dates, then you have your answer.
I third this. She may just be cheap or unable afford dates, but that wouldn't prevent her from appreciating free activities.
I mean back when I had what qualified for a good relationship, wo would sometimes just go to the park and throw a frisbee, it poke stop at the sculpture garden (there's five.) Walk e bike trail, even if you don't want to go fully free a walk on a sunny day to get ice cream. or go hiking and play stoner and sober leader, always fun. She had a thing for finding swing sets and doing that for a few hours. Anyway some ideas for op edit: I didn't respond to op... I responded to a comment, oh screw it I'm leaving this anyway
“play stoner and sober leader, always fun.” What is this? Sounds fun to me
Go on a hike, one smokes a full joint, the other gets the second hand. Sober leads for 10 minutes, then stoner ‘chooses the adventure’ as it were. Sober switches in later leading to a new spot, rinse and repeat until your both laughing like idiots. **High**-ly recommend.
If she can't afford it then she should maybe say so instead of having a free ride
Pack food, too. "I'm hungry. Where should we eat? "Tailgate baby, I brought sandwiches. " If she sounds disappointed, ditch that ungrateful succubus.
If a boy brought me sandwiches on a date I would marry him! How sweet ... or maybe I just like sandwiches
I brought sandwiches on me and my wife's first date. Baked the bread myself!
Baking your own bread for a first date is an awesome flex
Do you have a vacancy for a second wife?
I'm old-school Food TV, back when they had actual good cooking shows. Jamie Oliver's Naked Chef had an episode where he and Jooles were going on a date. It was to a park. And he wanted to cook up the best picnic for her. The whole episode was him cooking up a picnic. It was one of my favorite Naked Chef episodes.
My bf and I found the cutest park the other day and we haven’t stopped talking about having a cute picnic 😭🥺
Please enlighten me on free date ideas!
Walks, hiking, geocaching, picnics where you both pack some food (not totally free obviously but good!), community events (some places do free summer concert series), hanging out a beach or park, watching a movie at home, you can sometimes get museums passes from the library, some libraries have events….
I love these, my SO and I would have the nicest pic-nics in the summer... find a nice spot near a lake and watch the sunset. Better memories than a pretentious restaurant. I loved it. He once surprised me with a bonfire at the beach, music, wine, pillows, a blanket.... dates dont have to be expensive to be impressive if you are willing to put in some work. I remember this one girl walked by us while my boyfriend was arranging things around me and stopped, looked at me and said "wow... you must feel special!" .... then looked at her boyfriend and asked "where is my romantic bonfire?" 🤭
Me and my ex were so skint that once we had ‘who can hold their breath for longer’ contests. Killed about 20 minutes.
Hold your breath for 20 minutes and you'll kill something.
I’m on my 3rd wild swimming date with my new gf and she loves it. I have MS and she has Fibromialgia and it’s really good for both of our health. I’m terrified I’ve misspelled Fibro… and ‘both of our healths’ sounded wrong but I’m mad at myself now
Oh man. Free dates are my favourite. Bush walks. Drinking a cup of tea at the park. Going to the beach. Going for a drive. I love it.
And stealing the tea to keep it free will be an exciting adventure together
Or the declaration of independence if that's your cup of tea.
The secret ingredient is crime.
Catching a goose. Laughing by the river. Catching a lot more geese. Attaching them to the sleigh. Flying the sleigh to the bank, masks on people, we go in fast and nobody gets hurt.
Lmao why the hell would you waste an enormous amount of time doing this when it can be solved with a 5 minute conversation.
I think also because OP clearly likes her and doesn’t want to cut and run—otherwise they would have and there’d be no post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cuz she'll lie about it. I wouldn't waste another 10 but maybe two or three to see her true actions. But I've also learned that if I have to do allll that, it's just not worth it.
If you don't trust them enough to have a conversation about relationship expectations, why go on more dates?
Because we are not dating her, OP is. Personally I would have dumped her already.
No don't go on another 10 dates to someone who gets mad at you suggesting they pay for themselves at some point LOL
This is a waste of time. She’s useless and OP knows this already
Oh I know but just in case OP needs to see it themselves I thought it could be fun.
I’d do an extra 20 dates just to be sure!
You are an adult, you get to decide what kind of relationships you want in your life. Do you want one where you pay every time, and she doesn't? If not, then either dump her or talk to her to try and get her to understand and see your point and change. You don't need the internet to agree with you to make decisions on what kind of relationships you want.
We sure OP is an adult? Maybe that's why op is asking.. to get opinions from adults
Yeah, he called her his girlfriend and said they've been on 10 dates. That sounds like high school to me.
...is 10 dates not enough time to make someone your girlfriend? Asking as an adult
I think the implication is that counting dates all the way up to 10 isn't something that an adult would do.
I wouldn't either, unless I went back to tally up the times I have paid for all our dates. Hard to say in the situation.
Fair point
I did with my last relationship lol both in our late 20s We hit date number 10 and I looked at him and said “so does this make you my boyfriend or something?” And he thought it was cute that I had kept track. Some people are just sentimental
My girlfriend and I have been together for 16 months and I have a feeling she knows how many dates we have been on. She is very sentimental, and I wouldn't be surprised if she kept a list so she could revisit some of out dates.
Of course it is as long as that’s what both people agree to.
This! There’s usually some sort of discussion or agreement to being boyfriend/girlfriend among adults
Because when you are 27 and dating you call your partner a "?" and you go on 10 dates and call it "?"
Obviously you call her your wife and put a ring on it after the first date!
Found the person from Utah.
As a Utahn I concur
But, enough about military dudes...
Oooh ooh I know this one. A: ‘boo’ B: ‘talking’
Heh, boo B.
"paramour" "entanglement"
Keep my wife’s name out of your ducking mouth!
I dont know a highschooler who goes on a first date and asks if someone owns a house or an apartment lol
Why would you assume OP is in high school for that?
Hmm… high school girl asking high school boy if he has a house or an apartment? Ok
They might be in a big multicultural city like Los Angeles and the girlfriend is still in college and from a totally different ethnic background.
And that shouldn't change the response.
I disagree. Some people were raised with weird or toxic beliefs, and they need group input as a gauge of their own perspective.
Yeah totally. Or, and hear me out, he's a child since that's the most obvious explanation. But you're right, they could also be from Botswana and we just don't get the context. We wouldnt want to jump to conclusions and assume the most obvious situation is the actual situation lol
This is still No Stupid Questions, right? I don't think it's fair to blast people for coming here with relationship questions
Wish I could upvote this more than once, geez.
Why can't they ask for input? They don't have to follow the advice, but it is nice to hear others' opinions. It often times open their eyes.
She is not your girlfriend. You are her sugardaddy.
It sounds like he just need to actually talk. Me, I always pay for dates but thats just because I dont mind doing so. But everyone is different. He needs to tell her whats up and if she keeps on deflecting then he needs to move on asap.
Date night with my wife runs between 50-100 a week. Ass can be rented way cheaper than 500-1000.
I also choose this guy's cheap wife.
Classic
Damn you guys make BANK in the US. Like, I know your cost of living is high and so it balances, bit it blows my mind that a week's groceries here is like pocket change to you guys Eg, to get 2 pizzas and a bottle of wine (with 15% tip) costs the converted equivalent of US $10.77. And that's not nasty ass domino's, that's wood fired quality. That being said I work a (well above standard pay) 10 hour day for US $18.50 so I guess... Edit to add: when I say well above standard, I should clarify I am working a minimum wage job, but I get paid just under double min wage as my boss doesn't want me to leave :) it's too hard to replace people willing to work this job under the conditions I do lol
Hey don't be hating on my beloved dominos. That shit slaps for bulking on a budget
[You're welcome.](https://youtube.com/shorts/z_K6_jhHB3E?feature=share)
Where do you live? Maybe I should move there. Lol
South Africa Pls don't move here it's so bad lol I'm not even joking
Not on my list of potential places to move for a lot of different reasons lol. Even though cost of living is very high, a lot of people in well of countries like the US don't realize how wealthy they are on a global scale. If you make something around 40k USD (which is just a bit above personal average and much lower than household average) you are already making more than like 90% of the world's population.
Bruh my coffee and sandwich from Starbucks an hour ago was $11.90. That's without tax (gigabrain Starbs for the gift card exploit).
Math is sus
She’s definitely trying to manipulate you
100% manipulation.
You and your girlfriend might just have different values. Some women and men want the man to pay for everything. She might’ve grown up in a family like that, so that’s her expectation. Think about your own expectations. Do you want to be in a relationship where you pay for everything? If you want her to contribute, just talk to her about it. And if you’re not on the same page, then it’s okay to move on and find someone with the same values as you.
Yup exactly. Women from traditional cultures, or with traditional values, may be dating with the intent of marrying a man who provides for the family and is glad for her to be a SAHM. If that’s what they’re looking for, then of course they don’t want to pay on dates, and a man wanting them to pay would be a red flag for them during the vetting process. If that’s *not* what the guy is looking for, then there’s a fundamental mismatch. But really, this requires a conversation about what each person’s vision of an LTR would be. If both people are looking for an LTR or marriage in which each is expected to financially contribute and tasks aren’t divided along gender lines, then her insisting on him paying throughout the dating process makes no sense. She needs to be picking up tabs too. I had a friend when I was younger who was the very traditional type, Chinese background, virginity until marriage, that sort of thing. She did not want to pay on dates, and she was looking for a guy who made decent money. Makes sense, yeah? I otoh am 100% on board with modern gender roles and always paid 50% while dating. I’m now married and we each contribute to the household income and expect this will continue indefinitely, he does make a bit more than me but I wouldn’t mind passing him someday.
Why is this the only reasonable response? She isn't abusing him. She isn't cheap. This is her expectation of what a boyfriend does. He can either talk to her and explain that her expectation of him is wrong and that they can meet somewhere in the middle or they can go their separate ways and find people more suited for them.
My wife and I had a lot... like a LOT of conversations about money before we got married. She's from a country where men work and just give all their money to the wife.... while I'd say most Americans are pretty open to making a financial plan as a couple and working together to understand their financial needs. We had many arguments but came to an understanding about it. At first, she thought I didn't trust her with money. It wasn't until I explained that I've been at points in my life where I could only afford to eat rice for weeks at a time, and being involved in my finances is important to me. It came to understanding each other. We work things out. The worst that happens is you realize you're not compatible. The best outcome is that you're both able to understand and put your differences aside. If you're not able to do B, it's someone you don't want to be with forever anyway.
And even if you decided to split, having those conversations helps you a lot with future relationships. You figure out more about what you need.
If my expectation of a girlfriend was that she stayed barefoot in the kitchen making me meals and giving me morning blowjobs every day, that wouldn't be abusive but people would probably still judge me for having shitty expectations. If you think a boyfriend should pay for everything then I'd say you are cheap. Not saying your abusive, but you are cheap.
Wait, I thought the whole post is about him asking and her getting upset that he asked? Obviously he isn't on board, but wanted to see if the majority opinion is that he should be on board. All you had to say is that if he doesn't like her answer, he should leave.
This needs to be higher. A lot of people are taught that men always pay for dates, splitting the bill seems to be a more modern change. If you believe that it's his responsibility to pay, then him shirking that could feel cheap or like he doesn't value you- like if he buys you flowers but expects you to pay him back. Op, talk to your girlfriend. Don't assume she's evil over one (1) fight.
It may be a manipulation. Tell her, "I feel like I'm buying your affection." Her response should bring you the truth of the matter.
I read this as a response from a relationship advice columnist
Did y’all discuss what roles y’all were gonna play when y’all got together? Sounds like she is used to dating guys that don’t mind paying and you are used to dating girls that chip in. Just different styles and not compatible.
To flip the script, by her own logic, if she's not willing to contribute to the relationship that must mean that she doesn't like you that much, Personally I'd dump her, to me it seems like she's looking for a wallet with legs rather than a boyfriend, but you're there and actually know her, Maybe that's her idea of a relationship between a man and a woman, which would still be a major red flag for me personally but would at least mean that it's not malicious
This. If being a wallet with legs is the game, then at least play that game with open eyes and with whatever you need out of the relationship clearly identified.
You not bringing up money for the first 10 dates might have set a wrong precedent that you were going to be the financial provider in the relationship. If you’re not okay with that arrangement you just need to break up with her because it seems like that’s the only arrangement that’s acceptable for her.
Yeah, 10 dates is too far. My man should've brought this up after date 3 max.
I think that’s just her way of avoiding telling you she’s cheap
She sounds pretty expensive to me
This made me laugh. your bluntness is appreciated!
Ask her what she expects to contribute from her half of the relationship. If you feel it's a fair trade, proceed. Otherwise, tell her it's best to stop dating each other.
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Tiny dissent from he majority here—tone and context matter. There are ways to have that conversation (which definitely ought to have happened earlier) that genuinely does reflect the idea that you don't like her. Like if you had been building up resentment for 10 dates and then sprung this on her giving the whole "I've waited patiently for TEN DATES for you to offer to contribute" in a way that reflects irritation, her first reaction COULD be to the tone of your request rather than the fairness of its content. Anyway, if you're able to bring up the subject more neutrality, asking about her financial situation and wanting to make sure things are feeling fair, and she starts pulling this kind of stuff, ignore everything I said earlier. But just wanted to throw this ONE other possibility out there in case that might have been what's going on.
I also am curious about cultural considerations.
That’s where my idea came in. Like for me and my bf we grew up in families where the woman just doesn’t pay for dates. If I pulled out my wallet during a date to pay for any part of dinner it would signal to him that I am either insanely pissed or breaking up with him. The only exception at this point is when we’re tipping and he asks if I have cash. This absolutely was a convo OP needed to have earlier on to set expectations.
You two aren't a match. Move on.
Agreed, each one has different values.
Is there a huge age difference or income difference? Like is she still in uni or something? When did you bring it up? If you brought it up after eating at a restaurant you picked and she can’t afford the bill … well - I can see why she reacted that way, but she should calm down and think about what she can offer. If you’re both working adults, and she can’t afford to pay, you guys should do something she can afford half the time or so - maybe a movie night in and she makes the meal, or a picnic in the park. So you both put in effort and contribute to the relationship. Otherwise it’s not your company she enjoys but the free stuff. Perhaps you two should plan ahead and talk about it somewhere that doesn’t cost any money.
You been seeing her less than 10 dates, discover basic stuff like this about her, yet you call her your gf?
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I believe both feelings are valid. You both clearly grew up with different morals when it comes to being in a relationship and going on dates, and that’s totally fine. Personally, I have been in a almost four year relationship and my boyfriend pays for 99% of our dates. The only times I pay are for his birthdays. That’s because he grew up in a household where he was told that he should pay for everything, and I grew up in a household being told that the man should pay for everything. So it completely worked out for us and wasn’t a problem on either end. There was a point in the middle of our relationship where he was tight with money and asked me to pay (lasted maybe 2 months) and I was in accordance with that. I did not mind at all, but once he was good with money, he never let me touch my wallet again. I know it’s only been 10 dates, but if you really like her and see a future with her, I believe you need to speak to her about this more because financial opinions are really important in a relationship. If anything, the most important. For instance, once a couple wants to move in together, it’s important to know what they expect from each other. There are men who say they will pay all the bills and the woman can just purchase things like food or some don’t even want the woman to pay a dime on household items or bills and whatever money she makes, is hers. There are others who would like to go 50/50 on everything. At the end of the day, what matters is that it works out for the both of you. Your feelings are 100% valid and you have the right to want her to contribute, but she also has the right to not want to.
The way you asked this has a big influence on the situation. If she genuinely thought you were just being nice (eg "I'll take this one!" ten times then you suddenly say "you need to start contributing" it could be a jarring tonal shift. If you were like "hey can you take some of the date tabs?" and she responds like that then it's a red flag about her.
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Her feelings are valid for *her* and her needs for a relationship. Some partners love paying for everything and it sounds like that’s what she wants. To me this sounds like you two are not compatible. She shouldn’t make you feel bad for your needs of wanting her to contribute and she shouldn’t make you feel bad either. I would find someone else who wants to contribute and let her find a partner who pays for everything.
Idk. If you really like her, its not a big deal to pay for all dates. Some guys still believe in courting and spoiling in the beginning. Or not having sex for awhile to show her u care that much and wanna wait to make it that much more special. I've only done this with one person but it was all worth it. If shes the right one for u do what u want. It's a relationship because its between 2 ppl. Not a community project
I mean, nobody here has any context. We don't know how you brought it up, what her financial situation is, what your financial situation is, how expensive the previous dates have been, and so on. In the worst case she's either manipulative, entitled, or traditional. All of those suck (unless you want someone traditional) and you should move on. On the other hand, in the best case it could be fine. Examples where this might be okay: - If you have money and she's struggling, it seems reasonable for you to pay and I can see why she'd be hurt. When I got a high paying job out of college, and I would go out with people who were still broke students, I would always pay. Obviously. - The dates so far have been extremely inexpensive (relatively) so it seems petty for you to even ask. Such as a case where you have a picnic in the park together and you pay for gas and food, or you see a cheap movie together, or you go on a hike, etc. Unless you are in a situation where you are both scraping for gas money, it might just seem petty that you would bring this up if you have been spending relatively little money. - It's not about you paying specifically but more that she feels especially insecure about the relationship for some reason. You paying is one of the only ways you are showing 'investment' in the relationship so if you stop, her needs are no longer being met. In other words, the relationship has some problem and you paying for dates is acting as a bandaid for it. - You brought it up in a shitty/aggressive way and she was reacting to your tone and demeanor when she said it feels like you don't like her very much. Possibly you have some kind of resentment that is peeking through and she is noticing. These are the best case scenarios I can think of off the top of my head, but I think that my point really is that you won't know what her reaction means until you talk to her and figure out what's going on. Relationships are all about communication. I think it is more valuable for you to try to discuss it maturely together rather than asking strangers on Reddit for advice without giving any context in your post. Honestly, the right answer could be anything from leave her ASAP to investing MORE in the relationship, and nobody on Reddit has enough context to be able to tell because you didn't put it in the post.
I think the other thing to add to your list is that OP is posting bullshit and this should be taken over to AITA.
Her reaction and refusal to start sharing the bill makes me think she's the one not liking you that much. She's taking advantage of you. Her respons is manipulative. It's something like "you'd do it if you loved me" type of manipulation.
If you are the one inviting her out, be prepared to pay for the entire thing. If she wants you to take her somewhere, you dont have the obligation.
Just letting you know, every social interaction involves manipulation. People generally only call it manipulation when it is toxic. Let’s assume she has an expectation from growing up that you should pay all her meals. Would you be fine with that? Let’s assume she is using you for free food only. Are you getting enough from her to keep it up? Let’s assume she has anxiety and just was caught off guard with the question. Would you be fine with brushing it off? Don’t assume what she has going on. Just figure out what YOUR boundaries and expectations are before you make a move.
Financial literacy and being able to open up to each other about finances is an integral part of a success relationship.
I don’t think she’s trying to manipulate you, our culture has just set up an expectation that men in a relationship pay for everything and that women should want a guy like that. It’s something you should discuss with her - your mutual expectations and how to reconcile them. If you can’t then you should probably break it off.
I don't think she's manipulating you, this is just how she sees relationships. Some people think that the man should treat his woman to everything. I'm a split things equally kind of girl so this wouldn't work for me, but I don't think she's trying to trick you or anything. She's telling you her expectations, if you don't agree then maybe best to leave because I doubt this will change
Did you use the words "start contributing" to her? Because that'd probably do it.
Yeah I feel like this is a gentle conversation and just by this person asking on reddit for opinions. I wonder if they did not have the conversation gently or well its a made up fantasy scenario.
Exactly how did you say this to her? What is her financial situation compared to yours? Has she cooked a meal for you?
Can anyone explain how money is a woman’s problem? You ever want kids? You want a pretty woman? You want a person who can support you emotionally? And give birth to your kids? All of the above while giving you blowjobs and paying for stuff 50/50? That is crazy. I do not want my wife to work because who else would take care of kids emotional wellbeing and support.
That’s manipulative. Her feelings may still also be real but based on sexist roles and expectations that you may need to discuss constructively. Sure she can pay sometimes.
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Omg. No she's not financially abusing him. She's being an entitled brat. Financial abuse is serious and it's not when some new girl you're dating doesn't want to pay for dates. Stop watering down abuse.
With no context regarding her life situation, I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt and say she's not using you. However, if some things in her life are causing her to flip out over the suggestion that she could pick up the tab at some point, she could talk to you about them. I'm not saying she owes you an explanation, but you also don't owe her meals, drinks,etc. You're not an ATM.
She’s looking for that sprinkle sprinkle
I dunno.. last date I went on took me 5 weeks to recover from financially and it was just dinner and a movie
If that's her response, then it is 100% manipulation. Been there done that.
Run bud. Run.