Ask him what he thinks "the lifestyle" is. He may be thinking of stereotypes and myths that say all gay people are super promiscuous, which simply isn't true.
"I just don't like quiche and brunch. Eggs and pie should be seperate just like lunch and breakfast. Men and other men can do as they please, but this cultural degeneration must end"
I'm a huge fan of brunch. It's not as early as breakfast, but there's breakfast food. Also there's drinking.
Why are straight guys not more on board with this? It hits many of our key interests. Sure quiche is hit or miss, but there's bacon! And bloody Mary's ! And sometimes cantaloupe.
Edit: It appears that it's not the same now as 30 years or so ago. All sorts of people have been commenting about how they like brunch and that is good to see.
One of the good things about being old is sometimes things change for the better.
Everyday I learn about more things straight guys are apparently 'not allowed' to enjoy and its just baffling. Are there guys that don't like brunch because it's not manly enough??? Serious question, all of my friends love brunch
Our friend group was planning to see The Little Mermaid, just the girls. Several of the guys asked why they weren't invited, since they grew up with the (animated) movie too. Didn't realize we were being sexist.
Eye opener for bias.
I'm going to suggest brunch too.
I cast my own bronze. I drive a superbike. Repair all my own cars. Renovated a whole house. Am as un-Gay as is humanly possible. Brunch is the best meal ever.
Oh and btw.: each to their own. Love and let love. If a gay guy hits on me, I’m flattered. Happened couple of times. Why can’t we let other people be happy?
My friend group usually just does everything together. The boys come to brunch, the girls come play games, the one time we tried to do a guys hiking trip in the end we still all went because it seemed silly to exclude someone 😭 it's sad to think that people are so restrained by what society tells them. We should all have the option to join something we may enjoy
Me and my best friend, all the way back from HS, used to do brunch once a week.
He is a cop and worked nights, so we would go have Golden Corral breakfast buffet when he got off work on Saturday mornings.
Nothin straight or gay about it....just a bomb ass meal with my buddy.
Yah, but we usually started at like 10am and left around noon. I feel like the time-frame, plus the selections provided, would qualify as a brunch, no?
As a straight man I’ve never had brunch without a mimosa, or a Caesar (similar to Bloody Mary) it’s just a great experience for any person of any orientation.
Quiche is omelette pie and it can be absolutely anything. And we have these idiots saying it's boring.
I bet these dumb fucks say pizza is boring after having only a cheese slice from little Caesars.
My mom would make two or three different types of quiches every weekend for breakfast when I was a kid. One had bacon. Another had spinach & feta cheese.
I think a lot of people that hate it just haven’t had a proper home-cooked quiche cause they can be fucking delicious.
When I was i was in a particular professional kitchen every Sunday a lady would ask for the kitchen sink. That meant I gave her onions,garlic, basil, and all of the leftover trims from the prime rib and probably the bacon cuts and proteins we had at the time. It was beyond the idea of bland.
Just like any food, depends on the recipe and execution. Quiche is a brunch standard but time consuming, so most places sell frozen crap because everyone hates working brunch, and most of the ones that don’t use frozen really phone it in.
Remember that every person working brunch hates working brunch and is still drunk from the night before. Because they hate brunch.
How is it time consuming? Toss some ingredients in eggs and milk and bake. Takes five minutes to prepare and twenty to cook, and is made ahead of time so you just cut and serve. It would take longer to defrost one.
As someone who enjoys cooking at home [and spent ~20 years in the industry].
Assuming you have a ready-made crust. [Which is sacrilege to many right off the bat!] it's still 10-15 heat up the oven.
Then 10-15 to par-bake / blind bake the crust.
Sure, you spend that half hour prepping your filling because you are one of the few people who are capable of doing more than one thing at a time -which I'd guess that 95% of people who don't take cooking seriously could not do.
Anyway, that's washing and cutting your veggies, par-cooking certain items like onions and broccoli, so they aren't raw when your egg sets. Oh the bacon [or other meat] is already cooked, right?
Then you get to bake for ~30 minutes. While you clean the rest of the equipment you just used, so you can enjoy the quiche you just made.
Then it must cool and be cut and plated.
"Scratch" quiche is, at best a *minimum* of 1 hour to make.
Agreed. Minimum. I’ll add the Murphy’s law aspect of brunch and say as far as the oven goes the igniter is going to be broken (always is) meaning you’re manually igniting with flaming receipt paper lol. I really hate igniting commercial ovens.
I would have my filling assembled night before so I would just have to crust, fill, go, but American restaurant quiche is still usually significantly thicker than a standard quiche. People think brunch isn’t a big deal, “it’s so easy”, but it’s fueled by cocaine, last nights mistakes, and chaos. Fuck brunch, and fuck restaurant owners who do brunch after staying open past 11.
The people serving you brunch worked late weekend hours, took a quick nap, then came right back in. I used to get maybe 4 hours of sleep on those shifts. For this reason brunch is set up so that the staff can show up 20 minutes before the shift starts. But oh no, here comes quiche. 45 minutes to bake, 30 minutes before that for the ovens to heat up. That’s just for a crappy frozen one. Want to make it with love? That means making crust morning of. Even short crust takes time, and you have to pre bake crust or it gets soggy. That means 20 minutes to make crusts, probably a longer bake time because you’re making it thicker so it looks good for the guests Instagram… this is now making you show up 2 hours before service because you put a baked good on the menu when you don’t have a pastry chef to take care of this for you.
The reason why i've come to love quiche recipes is bc they're super versatile.
I like this recipe just as a base
https://sallysbakingaddiction.com/quiche-recipe/
That said it calls for a lot of eggs! But i like that it leaves open all kinds of different fillings you can do.
As long as the fillings aren't super wet you can pull it off easily, and you can do any veggie you like.
Some of my favorites:
-sauteed leeks and goat cheese
- mushrooms sauteed in butter with lemon and thyme
-zucchini sauteed with prosciutto and provolone
-spinache and feta
I'm not sure my ideas are anything new, but the thing i love about this recipe is you can try what you like easily with it.
I really love this kinda of recipe bc i'm all excited about ways I can approach it. Could i do omurice? Could i do something that includes hollandaise? What kinds of dishes could be adapted to this??
Quiche is great Its cheap as shit to make... You literally just grab whatever bullshit is in the fridge and make sure it's got eggs and put it in a pie dish .
Are people actually mad at quiche? there's definitely some ignorance here.
I mean, quiche is mid at best. So I can kind of agree with that take. But brunch is tits. You want a beer with pancakes? You got it. A mimosa with a burger? Can do. Brunch is the king of meals
You haven’t had the right quiche, but it is actually easy to fuck up. Think of all the varieties of taste for pies and eggs and then put them together. Whole other level, but when its done right…goddamn.
"The lifestyle" in my experience also refers to just being seen doing anything gay.
Being flamboyantly gay = lifestyle
Sounding gay at all = lifestyle
Not having kids = lifestyle (IMO folks are secretly jealous of the often reduced pressure to have kids)
Kissing your gay spouse anywhere outside of your shuttered home = lifestyle.
They mean "I'm okay with gay people existing, if they can't help their orientation. I don't like that they don't hide it"
"lifestyle" is a term that caught on and has been used for a long time, but doesn't particularly make sense. Gay, straight, etc is a sexual ~~preference~~ orientation not a lifestyle. Partying, whoring, couch potatoing are lifestyle choices and doesn't mean they are mutually inclusive to any particular sexual ~~preference~~ orientation.
EDIT: Have changed my wording to be more accurate. It definitely wasn't meant to be malicious.
Yep ask them what they think of a monogamous gay couples or lesbian couples who have been married for 20+ years and most of them will still say they “don’t agree with their lifestyle.” People assume certain Christians word it that way because they’re only against sex before marriage and sex with multiple partners, but that they might be okay with queer monogamy. That’s not the case. They are against both physical and non-physical romantic intimacy between two people of the same sex.
I still do a little bit of advocacy here and there for LGBT youth who are in hostile Christian environments. So I can say pretty confidently that Christians who say things like “I just don’t agree with the lifestyle” are not supportive of queer monogamy. I’m sure there’s rare exceptions but I have never met one IRL. Listened to far too many homophobic pastors in my youth and I can assure you they definitely DO NOT mean “we’re only against hook up culture but not against gay marriage.”
Ding ding ding! "The lifestyle" means "I think being gay is a sexual kink and I don't wanna hear about all their weird kinky sex stuff all the time."
Hah in high school my mom told me she didn't want me hanging out with gay people "not because they're gay, that's fine, but because if they're gay it means they're having sex and I don't want you hanging out with anyone having sex in high school." Because hetero high schoolers *classically* never have sex.
Hell, on the front page right now there's a photo of a Pride flag at a school and people are saying "do children really need to be exposed to adult things like this?" What precisely is "adult" about being gay? Kids start having crushes on other kids in preschool. People just need to say what they really mean, which is that they think gay people are deviants who are obsessed with sex.
I think there's an incredible portion of the population who simply cannot wrap their minds around the idea of gay love. I mean like *love* love, like the kind where you start a family or get comfortable enough to fart in front of each other and eventually get old together. And I don't think most people realize they have that mental block until it finally lifts.
Honestly a lotta people have a similar block against, say, seeing Black men as involved and loving fathers. Or seeing a fat person as someone who is very active and works out regularly. It's not a world that they dip into, so their only reference point is pop culture or whatever they heard growing up, which is usually some twisted stereotype bullshit.
The reason you've never seen someone say they don't like a lifestyle and mean it is because it's a dog whistle. You hear "I'm a little backward but can be changed" vs. They're meaning, "I hate gay people, but can't actually say that in a way most people would understand or else everyone would realize I'm a pos".
Agree. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" vibes.
Which is really just a bigotry copout. Homosexuality is not a bad habit, but many religious people will insist that it's something you can stop doing. Which just compouds the bigotry because, like every other minority, they've been clamoring to be heard. The intolerant refusal to understand is papered over wtih the whole "nothing against them" lie.
Yeah this is how I've always interpreted this comment. People like this think being gay is a choice. But they use the euphemism "lifestyle" so they don't have to elaborate on their bigotry. In some cases, I think people haven't thought through to the logical end of their statement and are just regurgitating the whole lifestyle line, but still know it's a cop out.
Perhaps the bigots who expect all gay persons to remain celibate (actually, some do remain celibate) should be told to give up sex for lent. If they can't give up sex for only 40 days, what right do they have to expect all gay persons to give up sex for their entire lives?
Do they expect all gay persons to live alone? If not, just what do they expect?
Oof, that phrase. My little brother got in an argument with a kid at school in 4th grade. He was defending me because the kid was saying stupid shit about gay people. They both got sent to the office and the principal told the boy to “hate the sin, not the sinner”.
Yup, they say "I don't agree with their lifestyle" because it's just vague enough to give them just enough wiggle room to claim they're not really as bigoted as if they were to honestly say, "I don't think people should be allowed to be anything but straight."
The Christians called the Indigenous people who thrived in the Americas and elsewhere for thousands of years in established communities or groups, with structure and deep spiritual beliefs, "savages" while the Christians raped, tortured and murdered them, stole their land and their children.
The history of Christianity and some other man made religions is one of extreme hypocrisy, genocide, cruelty, and destruction cloaked in self-righteous Christian cult superiority beliefs - that exist to this day!!!
When you learn the history of Christianity it is sickening. The Gnostics were wiped out so Roman Emperor Constantinople could fashion Christianity into a form he could weaponize to control the citizens. It's a savage, God-less, evil cult. If there really is an anti-Christ it is organized religion. It separates people from God - from love - from knowing their true essence.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience. And our species has become so demented that we destroy our only home - Mother Earth - for short term greed and power. We destroy each other in the name of "God." This rise of right wing Christian nationalism must be stopped or we are truly doomed.
Plenty of men are idolized for the "lifestyle" of sleeping with a bunch of women. I have to wonder what exactly about a gay man's lifestyle, even if it conforms to the stereotype, makes it different to the people who say this.
Unfortunately, due to laws and society being against homosexuality for so long, you had to hide it. So that meant people only heard the shit like someone leaving their family after years of hiding, or being caught fucking in bathrooms etc. It wasn't that it was purely drugs and partying and sex, just that was what the news would report. I can kind of understand a sheltered person from a few decades ago with this thinking, but now it's just a shit way of saying you don't wanna think about it any deeper, but don't wanna be seen as homophobic, to put it nicely.
It’s literally just the fact that it’s same gender sex instead of sex between a male and a female and Christianity and Islam say that’s evil. By “lifestyle” they mean “committing the sin of homosexuality.” It’s just religious people being bigots like usual.
Sexual orientation is the more apt description, as preference implies a choice, which is something homophobes only seem to realize when the script is flipped on them and they say they can't choose to like the same sex
Yep, and the whole "lifestyle" wording is intentionally used as a way to imply it's a homosexual's "choice" as well. I'm a straight white man, but would never consider myself having a "white" lifestyle, or a "man" lifestyle, or a "straight" lifestyle. That's just me existing.
However things I choose to spend my time doing (gaming, hiking, travel, etc.) would be more apt descriptions of a "lifestyle" b/c they are choices, including hobbies, passions, etc. that aren't just descriptors of me as a literal human being.
i think he literally just means having romantic/sexual relationships with men. and orientation is about attraction, not action, but yeah if you have a problem with them acting on their attraction, you're homophobic. like "i have nothing against women, i just don't agree with them being able to live their lives the way they want to" is exactly how most sexists feel.
Yeah I've come across people who think that it's okay to be gay, but just not act on it. Like they should live forever alone in celibate.
I wonder if they ever stop to think how cruel of an expectation that is.
When I was a naive 18 yo, this was it really. ThE BiBlE sAyS and that was enough for me to believe it was a choice, like I'd heard.
Nobody in those circles talks about how cruel a life that would be. Probably also because they're so weird about sex to begin with. Even hetero sex is only barely okay, and only okay once you're married.
And because of that, the idea of consent isn't talked about and healthy sexual exploration is also a BIG NO NO.
The cruelty of imposed lifestyle is a foreign concept.
Gay, trans, autistic, deaf, homeless, pick any skin color... It's absolutely everywhere. And it's always "everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others."
They don't even recognize that they just got lucky in the genetic lottery.
assuming you mean to have that expectation of gay people as compared to straight people, yeah. just wanted to point out that aro and ace people are often encouraged to do the opposite, for the same reason--that people aren't actually okay with who they are. but yeah, just wild that anyone would care when it has nothing to do with them and isn't hurting anyone.
When a straight guy sleeps with a lot of women he's a champ, when a guy gay sleeps with many men he's promiscuous and living a wrong lifestyle. Hypocrites.
When a gay guy sleeps with lots of women he’s doing it wrong. Bi guys grumble about erasure.
When a straight guy sleeps with lots of men he’s a Republican.
Probably by lifestyle he means same sex relationship.
My dad is in his 80's. One of his childhood friends came out when he was in his 50's, and wound up leaving his wife and kids.
When asked why my dad didn't talk to him anymore, the " disapproval of lifestyle" quote came up. Pure nonsense, as nothing changed other than my dad finding out his friend was sneaking out to meat the guys( yeah that typo is intentional). It's BS as my dad didn't cease being friends with another friend who had an affair.
So they're old, and it's hard/ impossible to get them to change their ways on stuff like that.
I'd like to think my generation, gen X , is a bit more accepting and flexible. Most everyone I know, including myself, went from calling people fags/homos when we were teens to us being happy that our gay friends are in a nice marriage.
I just don't get how my parents went from being Kennedy democrats, to supporting Trump. All of my siblings went radically liberal as we aged.
I dunno I think otters have the right idea. Hanging out in the lazy river holding hands with your otter buddy so you don't float away and eating tasty seafood off your otter tummy.
It's more like "I have nothing against whales but the very idea of them makes me uncomfortable". Which, in the whale analogy is pretty justified because they're fecking massive and swim in the open ocean which is also fecking massive and very scary.
It's much less rational to be made uncomfortable by homosexuality but if someone was raised a certain way by a certain type of people it might be difficult to not feel that way. So I'd say it's probably reasonable for someone to say "I feel uncomfortable with the idea of homosexuality but I don't hold that against homosexual people in any way." Which might be what OP's brother is trying to communicate.
That’s not what “disagree with their lifestyle” means though.
The very idea of morticians, or extreme BDSMers might make me uncomfortable. But that doesn’t mean I “don’t agree with their lifestyle” - and I’ve never felt compelled to say those words, because they don’t mean “I feel discomfort”. Obviously we have infinite lifestyles that we think are acceptable to have but wouldn’t want to live out ourselves.. we don’t feel the urge to clarify “I have no problem with nuclear physicists”, yknow?
“I don’t agree” doesn’t express an emotion like discomfort, it expresses a normative evaluation - that you think what they are doing in living “that lifestyle” is wrong in some way (immoral, unnatural, etc).
People who have nothing against gay people don't feel the need to declare shit like this. I'm bisexual and I've heard similar statements dozens of times. Not a single time it came from the mouth of someone who is okay with gay people. Not once.
Exactly. This needs to be the top comment.
The statement in itself is only made by people who have something against gay people. I am straight so don't have the experience but even I can see this, it's so obvious.
Demetri Martin had a stand up joke about this, where since what follows that statement is always racist, he likes to say things that can’t possibly be racist.
Like “I’m not racist but the weather today is beautiful.” Just to fuck with people
I once heard a guy say "Im not racist at all but If I could lock all the damn gypsies in a glass dome and gass them to death, I would do it. Not racist though."
I dont think he knew what that word means.
The thing is a lot of folks imagine being racist means you’re a foaming-at-the-mouth Klansman. And because they aren’t that, they aren’t racist. They struggle with the idea that you can be racist *even if* you have justifications for that racism.
It’s those justifications and those “well, I’m not hateful, *but* they do have a point here….” moments that folks glom onto to avoid admitting they are the assholes.
People just generally have the idea that they are the good guys, and can’t be bigots; they will try to bend over backwards, breaks their spine in the attempt, and try again if it means admitting they aren’t a bigot.
Going back to the original topic, as a trans woman I don’t think I’ve ever seen people so keen on that pattern of behavior as when dealing with sexuality and gender identity. I have seen people legitimately suggest that queer folks should be put through forced conversion therapy, but that they aren’t -phobic.
It’s fucking wild, and people get **SO DAMN ANGRY** when you push back and call them on their shit. There’s a massive sense of entitlement towards getting to unilaterally decide what is and isn’t considered hateful towards us, and that line is always conveniently one or two steps beyond where they personally stand.
Well said. Growing up in the Deep South it’s all too common to hear quiet racism brushed off just because people aren’t lighting crosses on fire anymore. No matter how upset people get by it, I think all we can do is call out and pinpoint racist views when they present themselves, otherwise these people may never self-reflect on their shitty beliefs.
Or that to be racist / hold a racist belief / behave in a racist way, you have to feel conscious hatred towards a group and literally think “I don’t like this person because of their race”.
The interesting thing about the English language is that the structure of " but..." will ALWAYS negate the statement made. You cannot say "I'm not racist, but..." and not say something racist.
Even if you could say it, and not say something racist, it wouldnt make sense. "I'm not racist, but my cat is an asshole first thing in the morning" doesn't make sense as a sentence.
I've got nothing against the queers as long as they have the decency to be ashamed of themselves and don't do anything that makes me have to think about them and don't expect equal rights or to be considered normal...
"I just don't want anything about *my life* to change."
"Nothing about accepting gay people will change your life."
"But being bigoted is a part of my life."
It reminds me of people insist they’re not racist, they just don’t like minorities because of “insert racist dog whistle here.”
I think it boils down to a subset of people who hold bigoted beliefs, but aren’t comfortable with openly declaring themselves associated with hate groups
I used to be a JW and this is what a lot of them who wanted to sound “progressive” would say. It’s a way of trying to not sound like they are being bigoted while absolutely being bigoted.
"I have nothing against gay people - I just don't like the fact that any of them are actually alive and living and having a life because I suspect that during that life that they are living, they are doing gay stuff"
Yep. In my experience, they think being gay is a choice, and they think it's the wrong choice. They have just enough self awareness to recognize that it's not socially acceptable to tell someone they're living in sin, so them saying they have nothing against it is them trying to be politically correct, even though they despise everything politically correct.
Because it’s not a “lifestyle” but who they are. We don’t say “straight lifestyle” for heterosexual couples. A lifestyle is chosen or inherited in some case, or it may even be circumstantial BUT one’s sexual orientation or lack of it isn’t a choice.
Calling it a lifestyle IS the contradiction. Anyone still saying being gay is a choice is, at best, wildly misinformed and going off of debunked 'science.'
It's one of my favourite feelings in the world to ask these idiots why they didn't choose to be gay, and then watch their face fall as I respond to their explanation of why it's morally wrong with, "But you're saying you *would*."
Yeah I know. Depending on my mood and how uncomfortable I want to make them, I drive the point home by telling them that I never even made that choice. I've had plenty of MFM threesomes with bi guys and not once did I feel that being gay was even an option let alone a choice. It's not a choice unless you're already gay in which case, you made the wrong choice.
this is why they cooked up the grooming rhetoric.
they realized letting adults do whatever they want when it's not hurting anyone is such an obvious stance to take that being against that was indefensible. especially when the right is supposed to be the "small government" and "personal freedom" party.
so now it's back to the old favorite: "think of the children!" "they're corrupting your children!"
the best way to convince bigots to act on their bigotry is to disguise it as a purely defensive thing.
"I'm not against letting people do what they want, but they can't be hurting children" seems much more reasonable than "I want to control who consenting adults are able to love"
but notice that it assumes LGBT people hurt kids from the start, as if that is widely known and agreed upon. usually this also encompasses that it's a choice, and therefore a choice you can force onto others.
but you have to write an essay to unpack and debunk all that, meanwhile they have accused LGBT people of grooming an additional 100 times elsewhere.
Let's be honest these are the same people that want to remove protections for children and send them all to work. They don't give a shit about children and complain that they can't beat them because their parents beat them and they turned out just fine. It's all such a joke.
oh yeah they don't actually care, it's just a convenient excuse they use so it's not as obvious how bigoted they are, and that they can parrot back to anyone who asks why, again, they are against consenting adults doing things that aren't hurting anyone?
just like when gay marriage was being legalized, it was "the institution of marriage" that was being destroyed/needed to be protected.
no one gives a fuck about "the institution of marriage" but by framing it that way they get to be outraged and pretend they're the victims and therefore are totally justified in denying not only a basic equality but also the financial benefits that come from that in the eyes of the law/tax system.
And they're the forced birthers who are against social safety nets for those very children (SNAP- only canned meat, CHIP- that vote was a disgrace in 2017, free school lunch programs- it will spoil the children, medicaid...) There are plenty of studies showing how these programs have favorable outcomes for children. It's not even a question about if they work. The school lunch program alone drops the rate of behaviors and suspensions through the floor. These people did not turn out fine if they want other generations to suffer under the same crappy conditions they were subjected to. They delay progress with their ignorance.
Throwing this out there too but in the same minds as the people you are describing, "hurting children" doesn't even have to mean an LGBTQ+ person actually hurting a child in some way. A child coming out as any of those letters, completely on their own, is enough for a parent to scream that a whole community has hurt their child.
Because while they won't verbally admit it (some definitely will), the very thought that their own child could be (fill in the blank) is something to combat: 'My own child just happened to come out? No way, it must have been (that one person's) fault. Now my child is confused, they were supposed to be cisheteronormative instead.'
Completely conditional "unconditional" love. Hypocrisy at its worst. And out of this bigotry, they are legitimately scared, and use everything at their disposal from money to their vote in an effort to keep the contradiction alive.
Only way learning trans people exist affected me as a child (teenager)
Was change my self-destructive, low-key suicidal tendencies into "there is hope. I can do this in real life and i do not need to rely on gaming to try and manage that feeling which is apparently dysphoria"
It gave me strength and resillience to get my degree and work on grad school so i can get out of my shitty eastern european country to live somewhere where i can be true to myself.
But theyd call this grooming i guess lmao.
There's an amazing video by Caelan Conrad on YouTube entitled "Gender Critical: Conversion Therapy". Its the 2nd video in their 3 part series where they dissect the gender critical movement.
They talk about how a lot of these LGBTphobic parents truly believe that their LGBTQ+ children were indoctrinated into a cult. A lot of these parents are genuinely terrified for their children. Many of these parents going so far as to willingly and knowingly abuse and isolate their children just so they can be separated from this "cult". They'd rather "trust their gut" than listen to their trans child that is suicidal because they don't feel accepted or loved.
I could go all day talking about this subject, but I won't bother you with many more words haha
I honestly think it's an amazing video, and I love Caelan to death! If you ever had the time, I really think you should check them out! Fair warning though; their channel is not family friendly! They often make sexually explicit jokes and reclaim slurs like the T slur. If that's something that makes you uncomfy, you should probably not watch their videos!
I'm curious of which of these lifestyles his brother would object to about me:
* I run my own company.
* I volunteer on a number of boards for community organizations and as well help oversee grant approvals for some foundations
* I'm a terrible procrastinator
* I'm a bit on the spectrum
* I'm rather introverted and enjoy my own company
* I like all animals and will stop at any and all cats. Recently, been developing a relationship with a couple crows that one I found that was a fledgling last summer
* I excel at sleep. I would win a Gold medal at sleeping.
* Speaking of excel, I was trained to be an accountant (auditor) and I can spend days fussing over creating a spreadsheet and analyzing data.
* I recently got back in to building Lego after a 30+ year absence.
And, oh right.
* I like the company of men.
My personality is not defined by me being gay. In fact, it's one of the least interesting part of me. All of the other things I mentioned are what make up me, and my "lifestyle". I don't want to be known as gay TUFKAT, I want to be known for the other things that make me, me, and that TUFKAT just happens to also be gay.
"I disagree with their lifestyle choice"
"so it's a choice?"
"yes"
"Ok, so you are choosing to be straight, but could be gay if you chose?"
"umm... "
alternatively -
"so when did you choose to be straight?"
> "so when did you choose to be straight?"
Unironic answer I have heard: "When God told me to be."
I mean it clearly indicated that they were off their nut but yeah, the mental gymnastics are real and sadly not uncommon.
>My personality is not defined by me being gay
I had a gay friend in college and I seriously forgot that he was gay all the time because all the other things about him were more interesting. It would always hit me when he occasionally did something that was actually gay.
Usually the most homophobic people are also the same people who thought the COVID vaccine had a microchip in it, I wouldn’t assume their opinions are based on factual evidence.
I honestly think the people who say being gay is a choice are all bi and are choosing to be exclusively straight, and that they lack the ability to understand that other people function differently from them.
Yup. The non-contradictory position is, "I have nothing against X, but it's not right for me." Or even better, just don't say anything because it's not your business.
This is actually the best point in the whole comment section.
OP if you read this far - ask you brother if he agrees with the lifestyle of straight women.
Just finding it necessary to make any statement like that usually already means you have something against X.
People who have nothing against X don't even see the need to make such statements and they will definitely never qualify the statement
If you have nothing against gays, then you're fine with people being gay. They can be gay at church, gay at the grocery store, gay at the park. They can gay marry and be gay parents and go to work as a gay. Anyone who says "I don't agree with their lifestyle" is saying it's wrong to have that lifestyle.
I'm not gay, but I am fine with anyone else being gay. That's having nothing against gays. Being against their "lifestyle" is having SOMETHING against them.
Try it with another minority. If someone said "I have nothing against Jews, I just don't agree with their lifestyle." What does that imply? A person can be Jewish but expressing their Jewishness is wrong? They don't agree that someone should pray or celebrate Yom Kippur or go to Synagogue?
Let's try a different approach. I have nothing against people who ride motorcycles, but I don't ride motorcycles. I'm fine with people living a motorcycle lifestyle, wearing leather and joining biker clubs and having biker names and riding their motorcycles together. I have no issue with that, I just don't want to ride a motorcycle- I don't think it would be fun.
I hope these examples help you see how ridiculous that statement is, and YES it's contradictory.
The motorcycle analogy is actually very appropriate, because it also illustrates the fallacy of assuming one "lifestyle." Within motorcycling there's the black leather wearing Harley riding lifestyle, the racesuit wearing sportsbike riding lifestyle, the all weather gear wearing touring bike lifestyle, the adventure bike lifestyle, the motocross lifestyle, etc etc and a whole bunch of people who ride motorcycles without making it part of their lifestyle. So when someone says "I don't like their lifestyle," what lifestyle do they actually mean?
Edit: spelling
>If someone said "I have nothing against Jews, I just don't agree with their lifestyle." What does that imply? A person can be Jewish but expressing their Jewishness is wrong? They don't agree that someone should pray or celebrate Yom Kippur or go to Synagogue?
There's plenty of people who would claim that they have nothing against jews but don't like how they're lizard bankers who run the world government through the illuminati.
I oppose those people for the same reason I oppose homophobes.
I forget how we got onto the topic but I mentioned that a certain celebrity had come out. My co-worker replied that he doesn't care that someone is gay but he doesn't like that they feel the need to announce that they are gay and that he does not want to see it. I asked if he had guests at his wedding, does he ever hold hands with his wife in public. He kind of acknowledged that I made a good point but I don't think I actually changed his mind.
Yes. Lifestyle implies it’s something they choose to dabble in, which it isn’t. The “lifestyle” and person cannot be separated. You can’t ‘disagree’ with it without disagreeing with who they are fundamentally.
Quicker to say “I have nothing against gay people, as long as I don’t have to talk to them or see them or think about them”. The sentiment is the same. It doesn’t *mean* anything, it’s just a homophobic comment dressed up like it’s not homophobic.
Many gay couples have pretty traditional lifestyles. They are just like everyone else but their choice of a partner is same sex. Your comment doesn’t make any sense since there’s no one lifestyle.
That's kind of like the Christian statement "Love the sinner, hate the sin." It's a flippant way for them to continue their homophobia and not feel bad about it.
Also, IMO, "lifestyle" connotes a choice of some sort. Most LGBT people didn't choose their sexual orientation / gender identity. They were born that way.
The sentence pretty much translates to "I'm not homophobic, but I don't agree with people being gay."
"gay lifestyle" usually just means someone being openly gay and doing "gay things", like dating and being themself. 🙃
I've always found the response "Yeah I know what you mean, I have nothing against straight people but I don't agree with their lifestyles. I mean, its all over tv and shoved into the faces of children, they're kissing and holding hands in public, its disgusting" tends to make them take a step back and think about the words they just allowed out of their mouths.
Also: “I think there’s nothing wrong with being straight as long as you don’t act on it. But if you act on it, that’s really really bad.” (Then claim this isn’t a double standard, because straight people can still “choose” to get with people of the same sex, just like anyone can.)
“If you’re straight you should keep that to yourself and not tell anyone, because we don’t want that shoved in our faces.”
And if they’re religious: “I have nothing against religious people, I just don’t agree with their lifestyle.”
The lifestyle?
Like having great jobs, lots of money, traveling abroad, going to wine/whisky tastings, working out, and living in a chic apartment?
I mean that's the lifestyle of some of the gay guys I know, but what a weird thing to "disagree with."
No, no, no. The lifestyle obviously involves miniature painting, and a love of board games and traveling. At least that’s my impression of the Gay Lifestyle
I think I have something 'against' everyone that I disagree with, in that I disagree with them. Right? I've had gay friends all my life, and the universal response to that is most gay people don't give two fucks whether you 'agree' with them or not. Just leave people alone and mind your own business.
Given that what your brother defines as "the lifestyle" is pretty critical to happiness and function (marriage, children, general popular acceptance) then yes it is a contradiction.
You have to press it further. Does he want gay people to be happy? Even if that means legally accepted marriage? Socially accepted? Legal adoption? Socially accepted adoption?
Ask him what he thinks "the lifestyle" is. He may be thinking of stereotypes and myths that say all gay people are super promiscuous, which simply isn't true.
"I just don't like quiche and brunch. Eggs and pie should be seperate just like lunch and breakfast. Men and other men can do as they please, but this cultural degeneration must end"
I realise this is meant as a joke and yet I agree completely. Fuck quiche.
I see a lot of quiche hate on here. I'm actually quite fond of it
I'm a huge fan of brunch. It's not as early as breakfast, but there's breakfast food. Also there's drinking. Why are straight guys not more on board with this? It hits many of our key interests. Sure quiche is hit or miss, but there's bacon! And bloody Mary's ! And sometimes cantaloupe. Edit: It appears that it's not the same now as 30 years or so ago. All sorts of people have been commenting about how they like brunch and that is good to see. One of the good things about being old is sometimes things change for the better.
Everyday I learn about more things straight guys are apparently 'not allowed' to enjoy and its just baffling. Are there guys that don't like brunch because it's not manly enough??? Serious question, all of my friends love brunch
Our friend group was planning to see The Little Mermaid, just the girls. Several of the guys asked why they weren't invited, since they grew up with the (animated) movie too. Didn't realize we were being sexist. Eye opener for bias. I'm going to suggest brunch too.
I'm cishet. Like stereotypical. I have a wood shop. I fucking love brunch
Wood shop, motorcycle license, change my own brakes and whatnot, baseball coach. Emphatically agree. Brunch is the shit.
I cast my own bronze. I drive a superbike. Repair all my own cars. Renovated a whole house. Am as un-Gay as is humanly possible. Brunch is the best meal ever. Oh and btw.: each to their own. Love and let love. If a gay guy hits on me, I’m flattered. Happened couple of times. Why can’t we let other people be happy?
Largely stereotypical cishet here. I own hand tools and work on my own Jeep. Can I be your +1 for brunch?
Aight my guys... Where we brunchin'!?
My friend group usually just does everything together. The boys come to brunch, the girls come play games, the one time we tried to do a guys hiking trip in the end we still all went because it seemed silly to exclude someone 😭 it's sad to think that people are so restrained by what society tells them. We should all have the option to join something we may enjoy
I freaking love brunch. Bottomless mimosas and bloody marys? Yes please. Super awesome breakfasty type food? Even better
Good luck finding any dudes, irrespective of sexual orientation, who don’t like waffles and build your own omelet station.
I just don't like passing out on my couch before noon.
It only counts as a nap if it's after noon. This is just "finishing up on sleep", and it's great. Don't plan on getting anything done that day, tho.
Me and my best friend, all the way back from HS, used to do brunch once a week. He is a cop and worked nights, so we would go have Golden Corral breakfast buffet when he got off work on Saturday mornings. Nothin straight or gay about it....just a bomb ass meal with my buddy.
That’s not brunch, that’s a breakfast buffet!
Yah, but we usually started at like 10am and left around noon. I feel like the time-frame, plus the selections provided, would qualify as a brunch, no?
Think that brunch in the way gay people have it requires drinking also, I say as a gay man who has never had brunch without a mimosa
As a straight man I’ve never had brunch without a mimosa, or a Caesar (similar to Bloody Mary) it’s just a great experience for any person of any orientation.
I like the idea of quiche. I'm a big fan of all of the ingredients, but somehow quiche is always bland.
You may be thinking of stereotypes and myths that say all quiches are bland, which simply isn't true.
Quiche is omelette pie and it can be absolutely anything. And we have these idiots saying it's boring. I bet these dumb fucks say pizza is boring after having only a cheese slice from little Caesars.
My mom would make two or three different types of quiches every weekend for breakfast when I was a kid. One had bacon. Another had spinach & feta cheese. I think a lot of people that hate it just haven’t had a proper home-cooked quiche cause they can be fucking delicious.
When I was i was in a particular professional kitchen every Sunday a lady would ask for the kitchen sink. That meant I gave her onions,garlic, basil, and all of the leftover trims from the prime rib and probably the bacon cuts and proteins we had at the time. It was beyond the idea of bland.
Bad, refrigerated, store-bought crust ruins a perfectly good quiche.
I already enjoyed the word quiche but you've taken my mind to another level with "omelette pie" good gracious
Just like any food, depends on the recipe and execution. Quiche is a brunch standard but time consuming, so most places sell frozen crap because everyone hates working brunch, and most of the ones that don’t use frozen really phone it in. Remember that every person working brunch hates working brunch and is still drunk from the night before. Because they hate brunch.
How is it time consuming? Toss some ingredients in eggs and milk and bake. Takes five minutes to prepare and twenty to cook, and is made ahead of time so you just cut and serve. It would take longer to defrost one.
As someone who enjoys cooking at home [and spent ~20 years in the industry]. Assuming you have a ready-made crust. [Which is sacrilege to many right off the bat!] it's still 10-15 heat up the oven. Then 10-15 to par-bake / blind bake the crust. Sure, you spend that half hour prepping your filling because you are one of the few people who are capable of doing more than one thing at a time -which I'd guess that 95% of people who don't take cooking seriously could not do. Anyway, that's washing and cutting your veggies, par-cooking certain items like onions and broccoli, so they aren't raw when your egg sets. Oh the bacon [or other meat] is already cooked, right? Then you get to bake for ~30 minutes. While you clean the rest of the equipment you just used, so you can enjoy the quiche you just made. Then it must cool and be cut and plated. "Scratch" quiche is, at best a *minimum* of 1 hour to make.
Agreed. Minimum. I’ll add the Murphy’s law aspect of brunch and say as far as the oven goes the igniter is going to be broken (always is) meaning you’re manually igniting with flaming receipt paper lol. I really hate igniting commercial ovens. I would have my filling assembled night before so I would just have to crust, fill, go, but American restaurant quiche is still usually significantly thicker than a standard quiche. People think brunch isn’t a big deal, “it’s so easy”, but it’s fueled by cocaine, last nights mistakes, and chaos. Fuck brunch, and fuck restaurant owners who do brunch after staying open past 11.
The people serving you brunch worked late weekend hours, took a quick nap, then came right back in. I used to get maybe 4 hours of sleep on those shifts. For this reason brunch is set up so that the staff can show up 20 minutes before the shift starts. But oh no, here comes quiche. 45 minutes to bake, 30 minutes before that for the ovens to heat up. That’s just for a crappy frozen one. Want to make it with love? That means making crust morning of. Even short crust takes time, and you have to pre bake crust or it gets soggy. That means 20 minutes to make crusts, probably a longer bake time because you’re making it thicker so it looks good for the guests Instagram… this is now making you show up 2 hours before service because you put a baked good on the menu when you don’t have a pastry chef to take care of this for you.
Try a quiche lorraine. It will change your life. Or a. Brocolli and stilton quiche
Yes, I have an award winning recipe for a quiche Lorraine and it’s fucking delicious!
Quiche lorraine, the food of my people.
Use sharp cheddar cheese and fresh tomato to give it some zip.
I used to agree, until I had good quiche.
Good quiche is fucking awesome. There are definitely not so good ones though
Mini egg pie, filled with meat and cheese? Delicious.
Look, I have nothing against quiche, I just don't agree with the people who choose to make it.
This is why i can't read reddit comments, bc i'm about to start listing quiche recipes and explaining why i think they're cool.
I would fully support this notion
The reason why i've come to love quiche recipes is bc they're super versatile. I like this recipe just as a base https://sallysbakingaddiction.com/quiche-recipe/ That said it calls for a lot of eggs! But i like that it leaves open all kinds of different fillings you can do. As long as the fillings aren't super wet you can pull it off easily, and you can do any veggie you like. Some of my favorites: -sauteed leeks and goat cheese - mushrooms sauteed in butter with lemon and thyme -zucchini sauteed with prosciutto and provolone -spinache and feta I'm not sure my ideas are anything new, but the thing i love about this recipe is you can try what you like easily with it. I really love this kinda of recipe bc i'm all excited about ways I can approach it. Could i do omurice? Could i do something that includes hollandaise? What kinds of dishes could be adapted to this??
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Gonna have to try a leek and cheese quiche. Leeks in general are underrated imo.
They don't even put a shot of vodka in their mimosas.
People drinking straight mixer? Wild
Quiche is like cheesecake. People make bad ones a lot, but the rare good ones are amazing.
Well eff you too, skyking. Most crustily, Lorraine.
Quiche is great Its cheap as shit to make... You literally just grab whatever bullshit is in the fridge and make sure it's got eggs and put it in a pie dish . Are people actually mad at quiche? there's definitely some ignorance here.
I have nothing against you disliking quiche, I just don’t agree with you expressing your opinions.
“Pesto is the quiche of the '80s”
I mean, quiche is mid at best. So I can kind of agree with that take. But brunch is tits. You want a beer with pancakes? You got it. A mimosa with a burger? Can do. Brunch is the king of meals
You haven’t had the right quiche, but it is actually easy to fuck up. Think of all the varieties of taste for pies and eggs and then put them together. Whole other level, but when its done right…goddamn.
"The lifestyle" in my experience also refers to just being seen doing anything gay. Being flamboyantly gay = lifestyle Sounding gay at all = lifestyle Not having kids = lifestyle (IMO folks are secretly jealous of the often reduced pressure to have kids) Kissing your gay spouse anywhere outside of your shuttered home = lifestyle. They mean "I'm okay with gay people existing, if they can't help their orientation. I don't like that they don't hide it"
"lifestyle" is a term that caught on and has been used for a long time, but doesn't particularly make sense. Gay, straight, etc is a sexual ~~preference~~ orientation not a lifestyle. Partying, whoring, couch potatoing are lifestyle choices and doesn't mean they are mutually inclusive to any particular sexual ~~preference~~ orientation. EDIT: Have changed my wording to be more accurate. It definitely wasn't meant to be malicious.
Yep ask them what they think of a monogamous gay couples or lesbian couples who have been married for 20+ years and most of them will still say they “don’t agree with their lifestyle.” People assume certain Christians word it that way because they’re only against sex before marriage and sex with multiple partners, but that they might be okay with queer monogamy. That’s not the case. They are against both physical and non-physical romantic intimacy between two people of the same sex. I still do a little bit of advocacy here and there for LGBT youth who are in hostile Christian environments. So I can say pretty confidently that Christians who say things like “I just don’t agree with the lifestyle” are not supportive of queer monogamy. I’m sure there’s rare exceptions but I have never met one IRL. Listened to far too many homophobic pastors in my youth and I can assure you they definitely DO NOT mean “we’re only against hook up culture but not against gay marriage.”
Ding ding ding! "The lifestyle" means "I think being gay is a sexual kink and I don't wanna hear about all their weird kinky sex stuff all the time." Hah in high school my mom told me she didn't want me hanging out with gay people "not because they're gay, that's fine, but because if they're gay it means they're having sex and I don't want you hanging out with anyone having sex in high school." Because hetero high schoolers *classically* never have sex.
Hell, on the front page right now there's a photo of a Pride flag at a school and people are saying "do children really need to be exposed to adult things like this?" What precisely is "adult" about being gay? Kids start having crushes on other kids in preschool. People just need to say what they really mean, which is that they think gay people are deviants who are obsessed with sex.
I think there's an incredible portion of the population who simply cannot wrap their minds around the idea of gay love. I mean like *love* love, like the kind where you start a family or get comfortable enough to fart in front of each other and eventually get old together. And I don't think most people realize they have that mental block until it finally lifts. Honestly a lotta people have a similar block against, say, seeing Black men as involved and loving fathers. Or seeing a fat person as someone who is very active and works out regularly. It's not a world that they dip into, so their only reference point is pop culture or whatever they heard growing up, which is usually some twisted stereotype bullshit.
The reason you've never seen someone say they don't like a lifestyle and mean it is because it's a dog whistle. You hear "I'm a little backward but can be changed" vs. They're meaning, "I hate gay people, but can't actually say that in a way most people would understand or else everyone would realize I'm a pos".
Agree. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" vibes. Which is really just a bigotry copout. Homosexuality is not a bad habit, but many religious people will insist that it's something you can stop doing. Which just compouds the bigotry because, like every other minority, they've been clamoring to be heard. The intolerant refusal to understand is papered over wtih the whole "nothing against them" lie.
Yeah this is how I've always interpreted this comment. People like this think being gay is a choice. But they use the euphemism "lifestyle" so they don't have to elaborate on their bigotry. In some cases, I think people haven't thought through to the logical end of their statement and are just regurgitating the whole lifestyle line, but still know it's a cop out.
Perhaps the bigots who expect all gay persons to remain celibate (actually, some do remain celibate) should be told to give up sex for lent. If they can't give up sex for only 40 days, what right do they have to expect all gay persons to give up sex for their entire lives? Do they expect all gay persons to live alone? If not, just what do they expect?
Oof, that phrase. My little brother got in an argument with a kid at school in 4th grade. He was defending me because the kid was saying stupid shit about gay people. They both got sent to the office and the principal told the boy to “hate the sin, not the sinner”.
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Yup, they say "I don't agree with their lifestyle" because it's just vague enough to give them just enough wiggle room to claim they're not really as bigoted as if they were to honestly say, "I don't think people should be allowed to be anything but straight."
The Christians called the Indigenous people who thrived in the Americas and elsewhere for thousands of years in established communities or groups, with structure and deep spiritual beliefs, "savages" while the Christians raped, tortured and murdered them, stole their land and their children. The history of Christianity and some other man made religions is one of extreme hypocrisy, genocide, cruelty, and destruction cloaked in self-righteous Christian cult superiority beliefs - that exist to this day!!! When you learn the history of Christianity it is sickening. The Gnostics were wiped out so Roman Emperor Constantinople could fashion Christianity into a form he could weaponize to control the citizens. It's a savage, God-less, evil cult. If there really is an anti-Christ it is organized religion. It separates people from God - from love - from knowing their true essence. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. And our species has become so demented that we destroy our only home - Mother Earth - for short term greed and power. We destroy each other in the name of "God." This rise of right wing Christian nationalism must be stopped or we are truly doomed.
Plenty of men are idolized for the "lifestyle" of sleeping with a bunch of women. I have to wonder what exactly about a gay man's lifestyle, even if it conforms to the stereotype, makes it different to the people who say this.
Unfortunately, due to laws and society being against homosexuality for so long, you had to hide it. So that meant people only heard the shit like someone leaving their family after years of hiding, or being caught fucking in bathrooms etc. It wasn't that it was purely drugs and partying and sex, just that was what the news would report. I can kind of understand a sheltered person from a few decades ago with this thinking, but now it's just a shit way of saying you don't wanna think about it any deeper, but don't wanna be seen as homophobic, to put it nicely.
It’s literally just the fact that it’s same gender sex instead of sex between a male and a female and Christianity and Islam say that’s evil. By “lifestyle” they mean “committing the sin of homosexuality.” It’s just religious people being bigots like usual.
Sexual orientation is the more apt description, as preference implies a choice, which is something homophobes only seem to realize when the script is flipped on them and they say they can't choose to like the same sex
Yep, and the whole "lifestyle" wording is intentionally used as a way to imply it's a homosexual's "choice" as well. I'm a straight white man, but would never consider myself having a "white" lifestyle, or a "man" lifestyle, or a "straight" lifestyle. That's just me existing. However things I choose to spend my time doing (gaming, hiking, travel, etc.) would be more apt descriptions of a "lifestyle" b/c they are choices, including hobbies, passions, etc. that aren't just descriptors of me as a literal human being.
i think he literally just means having romantic/sexual relationships with men. and orientation is about attraction, not action, but yeah if you have a problem with them acting on their attraction, you're homophobic. like "i have nothing against women, i just don't agree with them being able to live their lives the way they want to" is exactly how most sexists feel.
Yeah I've come across people who think that it's okay to be gay, but just not act on it. Like they should live forever alone in celibate. I wonder if they ever stop to think how cruel of an expectation that is.
It's like they "accept" the basic fact that we exist, but for us to actually express ourselves is apparently "too far"
When I was a naive 18 yo, this was it really. ThE BiBlE sAyS and that was enough for me to believe it was a choice, like I'd heard. Nobody in those circles talks about how cruel a life that would be. Probably also because they're so weird about sex to begin with. Even hetero sex is only barely okay, and only okay once you're married. And because of that, the idea of consent isn't talked about and healthy sexual exploration is also a BIG NO NO. The cruelty of imposed lifestyle is a foreign concept. Gay, trans, autistic, deaf, homeless, pick any skin color... It's absolutely everywhere. And it's always "everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others." They don't even recognize that they just got lucky in the genetic lottery.
"I'll accept you exist so long as I don't know you exist"
assuming you mean to have that expectation of gay people as compared to straight people, yeah. just wanted to point out that aro and ace people are often encouraged to do the opposite, for the same reason--that people aren't actually okay with who they are. but yeah, just wild that anyone would care when it has nothing to do with them and isn't hurting anyone.
It's actually hilarious how many of them are incels and still saying that shit lol
When a straight guy sleeps with a lot of women he's a champ, when a guy gay sleeps with many men he's promiscuous and living a wrong lifestyle. Hypocrites.
When a gay guy sleeps with lots of women he’s doing it wrong. Bi guys grumble about erasure. When a straight guy sleeps with lots of men he’s a Republican.
When a gay guy sleeps with lots of women he's a republican.
When a woman sleeps with a lot of men, she’s called a slut When a guy does the exact same thing, he’s called gay It’s all hypocrisy!
Probably by lifestyle he means same sex relationship. My dad is in his 80's. One of his childhood friends came out when he was in his 50's, and wound up leaving his wife and kids. When asked why my dad didn't talk to him anymore, the " disapproval of lifestyle" quote came up. Pure nonsense, as nothing changed other than my dad finding out his friend was sneaking out to meat the guys( yeah that typo is intentional). It's BS as my dad didn't cease being friends with another friend who had an affair. So they're old, and it's hard/ impossible to get them to change their ways on stuff like that. I'd like to think my generation, gen X , is a bit more accepting and flexible. Most everyone I know, including myself, went from calling people fags/homos when we were teens to us being happy that our gay friends are in a nice marriage. I just don't get how my parents went from being Kennedy democrats, to supporting Trump. All of my siblings went radically liberal as we aged.
nah fr, people think that being gay means you live a certain lifestyle - it’s quite literally no different than hanging with a women
I want to ask what "agree" means. Nobody asked his consent.
I don't know about the meaning of contradiction..Maybe I'll try research that later in Google.
"I have nothing against whales, I just disagree with absurdly large mammals coming to the surface to breathe"
Which is of course ridiculous because whales chose the best lifestyle of all mammals
I dunno I think otters have the right idea. Hanging out in the lazy river holding hands with your otter buddy so you don't float away and eating tasty seafood off your otter tummy.
And choosing a special rock to keep on your special rock pouch!
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Why would you let this be how I learn my new favourite word, 'pootling'.
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One, "pootling" is going to my word of the day. Two, that escalated *very* quickly.
Ok, but unfortunately if you want rape off the table that doesn't leave many species for this exercise.
nah koala has the best lifestyle. sleep for 20 hours a day and get high off your own only source of food
Yeah, but you also get raised eating your mom’s shit.
Sacrifices must be made
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It's more like "I have nothing against whales but the very idea of them makes me uncomfortable". Which, in the whale analogy is pretty justified because they're fecking massive and swim in the open ocean which is also fecking massive and very scary. It's much less rational to be made uncomfortable by homosexuality but if someone was raised a certain way by a certain type of people it might be difficult to not feel that way. So I'd say it's probably reasonable for someone to say "I feel uncomfortable with the idea of homosexuality but I don't hold that against homosexual people in any way." Which might be what OP's brother is trying to communicate.
That’s not what “disagree with their lifestyle” means though. The very idea of morticians, or extreme BDSMers might make me uncomfortable. But that doesn’t mean I “don’t agree with their lifestyle” - and I’ve never felt compelled to say those words, because they don’t mean “I feel discomfort”. Obviously we have infinite lifestyles that we think are acceptable to have but wouldn’t want to live out ourselves.. we don’t feel the urge to clarify “I have no problem with nuclear physicists”, yknow? “I don’t agree” doesn’t express an emotion like discomfort, it expresses a normative evaluation - that you think what they are doing in living “that lifestyle” is wrong in some way (immoral, unnatural, etc).
It doesn't make sense.
Exactly!
People who have nothing against gay people don't feel the need to declare shit like this. I'm bisexual and I've heard similar statements dozens of times. Not a single time it came from the mouth of someone who is okay with gay people. Not once.
Exactly. This needs to be the top comment. The statement in itself is only made by people who have something against gay people. I am straight so don't have the experience but even I can see this, it's so obvious.
See also, “I’m not racist but”
Demetri Martin had a stand up joke about this, where since what follows that statement is always racist, he likes to say things that can’t possibly be racist. Like “I’m not racist but the weather today is beautiful.” Just to fuck with people
"what? That's not racist" "I know! I just told you I'm not!"
“I have nothing against gay people but I think solid core solder is way easier to use than flux core solder”
I’m not racist but this is a good idea
I once heard a guy say "Im not racist at all but If I could lock all the damn gypsies in a glass dome and gass them to death, I would do it. Not racist though." I dont think he knew what that word means.
I think racist people have this idea that “racists” hate all other races whereas the vast majority hate one race in particular for whatever reason
There are two types of people I can’t stand: 1. People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures 2. The Dutch
I used to think you were evil, but I can clearly see your nuts.
The thing is a lot of folks imagine being racist means you’re a foaming-at-the-mouth Klansman. And because they aren’t that, they aren’t racist. They struggle with the idea that you can be racist *even if* you have justifications for that racism. It’s those justifications and those “well, I’m not hateful, *but* they do have a point here….” moments that folks glom onto to avoid admitting they are the assholes. People just generally have the idea that they are the good guys, and can’t be bigots; they will try to bend over backwards, breaks their spine in the attempt, and try again if it means admitting they aren’t a bigot. Going back to the original topic, as a trans woman I don’t think I’ve ever seen people so keen on that pattern of behavior as when dealing with sexuality and gender identity. I have seen people legitimately suggest that queer folks should be put through forced conversion therapy, but that they aren’t -phobic. It’s fucking wild, and people get **SO DAMN ANGRY** when you push back and call them on their shit. There’s a massive sense of entitlement towards getting to unilaterally decide what is and isn’t considered hateful towards us, and that line is always conveniently one or two steps beyond where they personally stand.
Well said. Growing up in the Deep South it’s all too common to hear quiet racism brushed off just because people aren’t lighting crosses on fire anymore. No matter how upset people get by it, I think all we can do is call out and pinpoint racist views when they present themselves, otherwise these people may never self-reflect on their shitty beliefs.
Or that to be racist / hold a racist belief / behave in a racist way, you have to feel conscious hatred towards a group and literally think “I don’t like this person because of their race”.
The interesting thing about the English language is that the structure of " but..." will ALWAYS negate the statement made. You cannot say "I'm not racist, but..." and not say something racist.
Even if you could say it, and not say something racist, it wouldnt make sense. "I'm not racist, but my cat is an asshole first thing in the morning" doesn't make sense as a sentence.
This right here. Why even mention something like that? The answer is because they do in fact feel so strongly about it that they have to verbalize it.
Just like the good ol' "I'm not racist, BUT" No bigger signal someone's about to bust out some massive racism.
It's a passive aggressive way of saying that they don't like gay people! \-A gay dude-
I've got nothing against the queers as long as they have the decency to be ashamed of themselves and don't do anything that makes me have to think about them and don't expect equal rights or to be considered normal...
Don't ask don't tell in a nutshell
"I just don't want anything about *my life* to change." "Nothing about accepting gay people will change your life." "But being bigoted is a part of my life."
100%
It reminds me of people insist they’re not racist, they just don’t like minorities because of “insert racist dog whistle here.” I think it boils down to a subset of people who hold bigoted beliefs, but aren’t comfortable with openly declaring themselves associated with hate groups
I used to be a JW and this is what a lot of them who wanted to sound “progressive” would say. It’s a way of trying to not sound like they are being bigoted while absolutely being bigoted.
"I have nothing against gay people - I just don't like the fact that any of them are actually alive and living and having a life because I suspect that during that life that they are living, they are doing gay stuff"
Yep. In my experience, they think being gay is a choice, and they think it's the wrong choice. They have just enough self awareness to recognize that it's not socially acceptable to tell someone they're living in sin, so them saying they have nothing against it is them trying to be politically correct, even though they despise everything politically correct.
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Because it’s not a “lifestyle” but who they are. We don’t say “straight lifestyle” for heterosexual couples. A lifestyle is chosen or inherited in some case, or it may even be circumstantial BUT one’s sexual orientation or lack of it isn’t a choice.
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Yup. They say "lifestyle," but they really mean "existence."
Calling it a lifestyle IS the contradiction. Anyone still saying being gay is a choice is, at best, wildly misinformed and going off of debunked 'science.'
Honestly, even if it was a choice, it's still a valid choice for an adult to make.
I feel like choosing to be gay is just being gay.
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Political lesbianism for the boys!
I cannot believe you were downvoted, this is gold comedy right here
Nobody is choosing to be gay but the people who claim it's a choice did make the choice to be straight.
It's one of my favourite feelings in the world to ask these idiots why they didn't choose to be gay, and then watch their face fall as I respond to their explanation of why it's morally wrong with, "But you're saying you *would*."
Yeah I know. Depending on my mood and how uncomfortable I want to make them, I drive the point home by telling them that I never even made that choice. I've had plenty of MFM threesomes with bi guys and not once did I feel that being gay was even an option let alone a choice. It's not a choice unless you're already gay in which case, you made the wrong choice.
Say it louder for the boomers in the back. But seriously, why does it bother them what anyone else is doing. As long as it's not hurting anyone.
this is why they cooked up the grooming rhetoric. they realized letting adults do whatever they want when it's not hurting anyone is such an obvious stance to take that being against that was indefensible. especially when the right is supposed to be the "small government" and "personal freedom" party. so now it's back to the old favorite: "think of the children!" "they're corrupting your children!" the best way to convince bigots to act on their bigotry is to disguise it as a purely defensive thing. "I'm not against letting people do what they want, but they can't be hurting children" seems much more reasonable than "I want to control who consenting adults are able to love" but notice that it assumes LGBT people hurt kids from the start, as if that is widely known and agreed upon. usually this also encompasses that it's a choice, and therefore a choice you can force onto others. but you have to write an essay to unpack and debunk all that, meanwhile they have accused LGBT people of grooming an additional 100 times elsewhere.
Let's be honest these are the same people that want to remove protections for children and send them all to work. They don't give a shit about children and complain that they can't beat them because their parents beat them and they turned out just fine. It's all such a joke.
oh yeah they don't actually care, it's just a convenient excuse they use so it's not as obvious how bigoted they are, and that they can parrot back to anyone who asks why, again, they are against consenting adults doing things that aren't hurting anyone? just like when gay marriage was being legalized, it was "the institution of marriage" that was being destroyed/needed to be protected. no one gives a fuck about "the institution of marriage" but by framing it that way they get to be outraged and pretend they're the victims and therefore are totally justified in denying not only a basic equality but also the financial benefits that come from that in the eyes of the law/tax system.
And they're the forced birthers who are against social safety nets for those very children (SNAP- only canned meat, CHIP- that vote was a disgrace in 2017, free school lunch programs- it will spoil the children, medicaid...) There are plenty of studies showing how these programs have favorable outcomes for children. It's not even a question about if they work. The school lunch program alone drops the rate of behaviors and suspensions through the floor. These people did not turn out fine if they want other generations to suffer under the same crappy conditions they were subjected to. They delay progress with their ignorance.
Throwing this out there too but in the same minds as the people you are describing, "hurting children" doesn't even have to mean an LGBTQ+ person actually hurting a child in some way. A child coming out as any of those letters, completely on their own, is enough for a parent to scream that a whole community has hurt their child. Because while they won't verbally admit it (some definitely will), the very thought that their own child could be (fill in the blank) is something to combat: 'My own child just happened to come out? No way, it must have been (that one person's) fault. Now my child is confused, they were supposed to be cisheteronormative instead.' Completely conditional "unconditional" love. Hypocrisy at its worst. And out of this bigotry, they are legitimately scared, and use everything at their disposal from money to their vote in an effort to keep the contradiction alive.
Only way learning trans people exist affected me as a child (teenager) Was change my self-destructive, low-key suicidal tendencies into "there is hope. I can do this in real life and i do not need to rely on gaming to try and manage that feeling which is apparently dysphoria" It gave me strength and resillience to get my degree and work on grad school so i can get out of my shitty eastern european country to live somewhere where i can be true to myself. But theyd call this grooming i guess lmao.
Yeah fuck those people. I'm glad you rediscovered yourself, best of luck with your goals!
There's an amazing video by Caelan Conrad on YouTube entitled "Gender Critical: Conversion Therapy". Its the 2nd video in their 3 part series where they dissect the gender critical movement. They talk about how a lot of these LGBTphobic parents truly believe that their LGBTQ+ children were indoctrinated into a cult. A lot of these parents are genuinely terrified for their children. Many of these parents going so far as to willingly and knowingly abuse and isolate their children just so they can be separated from this "cult". They'd rather "trust their gut" than listen to their trans child that is suicidal because they don't feel accepted or loved. I could go all day talking about this subject, but I won't bother you with many more words haha I honestly think it's an amazing video, and I love Caelan to death! If you ever had the time, I really think you should check them out! Fair warning though; their channel is not family friendly! They often make sexually explicit jokes and reclaim slurs like the T slur. If that's something that makes you uncomfy, you should probably not watch their videos!
But is anything a choice, really? I like pizza because my genes code for pizza-enjoying taste buds.
I'm curious of which of these lifestyles his brother would object to about me: * I run my own company. * I volunteer on a number of boards for community organizations and as well help oversee grant approvals for some foundations * I'm a terrible procrastinator * I'm a bit on the spectrum * I'm rather introverted and enjoy my own company * I like all animals and will stop at any and all cats. Recently, been developing a relationship with a couple crows that one I found that was a fledgling last summer * I excel at sleep. I would win a Gold medal at sleeping. * Speaking of excel, I was trained to be an accountant (auditor) and I can spend days fussing over creating a spreadsheet and analyzing data. * I recently got back in to building Lego after a 30+ year absence. And, oh right. * I like the company of men. My personality is not defined by me being gay. In fact, it's one of the least interesting part of me. All of the other things I mentioned are what make up me, and my "lifestyle". I don't want to be known as gay TUFKAT, I want to be known for the other things that make me, me, and that TUFKAT just happens to also be gay.
"I disagree with their lifestyle choice" "so it's a choice?" "yes" "Ok, so you are choosing to be straight, but could be gay if you chose?" "umm... " alternatively - "so when did you choose to be straight?"
> "so when did you choose to be straight?" Unironic answer I have heard: "When God told me to be." I mean it clearly indicated that they were off their nut but yeah, the mental gymnastics are real and sadly not uncommon.
"Well God told me to gobble on cocks, it's all part of his plan"
So gay, but practicing a Christian lifestyle? I mean i don't approve of said lifestyle, but as long as they aren't hurting anyone...
>My personality is not defined by me being gay I had a gay friend in college and I seriously forgot that he was gay all the time because all the other things about him were more interesting. It would always hit me when he occasionally did something that was actually gay.
As a fellow spreadsheet and data nerd who likes LEGOs and procrastinates, you sound like a cool dude, TUFKAT
“I like the company of men.” *Homer Simpson voice* Well who doesn’t??
Gay steelmill is like top 5 episodes for me. I fucking love that one. Dad, whyd you bring me to a gay steel mill. I DON'T KNOW.
HOT STUFF, COMING THROUGH
Usually the most homophobic people are also the same people who thought the COVID vaccine had a microchip in it, I wouldn’t assume their opinions are based on factual evidence.
Exactly. What’s the lifestyle of non gay people? All over the place right? Same as gay or bi or anyone else.
My first thought in response: I have nothing against men, I just don't agree with the lifestyle.
I honestly think the people who say being gay is a choice are all bi and are choosing to be exclusively straight, and that they lack the ability to understand that other people function differently from them.
The preachers who speak about the struggle to keep straight... my dude. If you are struggling, you are not straight lmao.
Yup. The non-contradictory position is, "I have nothing against X, but it's not right for me." Or even better, just don't say anything because it's not your business.
I have nothing against straight women, but I just don’t like sucking dicks.
I have nothing against straight women, but i like sucking dicks
This is actually the best point in the whole comment section. OP if you read this far - ask you brother if he agrees with the lifestyle of straight women.
Just finding it necessary to make any statement like that usually already means you have something against X. People who have nothing against X don't even see the need to make such statements and they will definitely never qualify the statement
I have nothing against brunettes nor left-handed people. I feel it was important to let you know that. Edit: But....
If you have nothing against gays, then you're fine with people being gay. They can be gay at church, gay at the grocery store, gay at the park. They can gay marry and be gay parents and go to work as a gay. Anyone who says "I don't agree with their lifestyle" is saying it's wrong to have that lifestyle. I'm not gay, but I am fine with anyone else being gay. That's having nothing against gays. Being against their "lifestyle" is having SOMETHING against them. Try it with another minority. If someone said "I have nothing against Jews, I just don't agree with their lifestyle." What does that imply? A person can be Jewish but expressing their Jewishness is wrong? They don't agree that someone should pray or celebrate Yom Kippur or go to Synagogue? Let's try a different approach. I have nothing against people who ride motorcycles, but I don't ride motorcycles. I'm fine with people living a motorcycle lifestyle, wearing leather and joining biker clubs and having biker names and riding their motorcycles together. I have no issue with that, I just don't want to ride a motorcycle- I don't think it would be fun. I hope these examples help you see how ridiculous that statement is, and YES it's contradictory.
The motorcycle analogy is actually very appropriate, because it also illustrates the fallacy of assuming one "lifestyle." Within motorcycling there's the black leather wearing Harley riding lifestyle, the racesuit wearing sportsbike riding lifestyle, the all weather gear wearing touring bike lifestyle, the adventure bike lifestyle, the motocross lifestyle, etc etc and a whole bunch of people who ride motorcycles without making it part of their lifestyle. So when someone says "I don't like their lifestyle," what lifestyle do they actually mean? Edit: spelling
>If someone said "I have nothing against Jews, I just don't agree with their lifestyle." What does that imply? A person can be Jewish but expressing their Jewishness is wrong? They don't agree that someone should pray or celebrate Yom Kippur or go to Synagogue? There's plenty of people who would claim that they have nothing against jews but don't like how they're lizard bankers who run the world government through the illuminati. I oppose those people for the same reason I oppose homophobes.
I forget how we got onto the topic but I mentioned that a certain celebrity had come out. My co-worker replied that he doesn't care that someone is gay but he doesn't like that they feel the need to announce that they are gay and that he does not want to see it. I asked if he had guests at his wedding, does he ever hold hands with his wife in public. He kind of acknowledged that I made a good point but I don't think I actually changed his mind.
Yes. Lifestyle implies it’s something they choose to dabble in, which it isn’t. The “lifestyle” and person cannot be separated. You can’t ‘disagree’ with it without disagreeing with who they are fundamentally. Quicker to say “I have nothing against gay people, as long as I don’t have to talk to them or see them or think about them”. The sentiment is the same. It doesn’t *mean* anything, it’s just a homophobic comment dressed up like it’s not homophobic.
Many gay couples have pretty traditional lifestyles. They are just like everyone else but their choice of a partner is same sex. Your comment doesn’t make any sense since there’s no one lifestyle.
That's kind of like the Christian statement "Love the sinner, hate the sin." It's a flippant way for them to continue their homophobia and not feel bad about it. Also, IMO, "lifestyle" connotes a choice of some sort. Most LGBT people didn't choose their sexual orientation / gender identity. They were born that way.
It’s not a contradiction but it doesn’t even make sense. What’s the “gay lifestyle”? is there a “heterosexual lifestyle”?
How is saying:I have nothing against gay people I just don't agree with People being gay not a contradiction?
The sentence pretty much translates to "I'm not homophobic, but I don't agree with people being gay." "gay lifestyle" usually just means someone being openly gay and doing "gay things", like dating and being themself. 🙃
I've always found the response "Yeah I know what you mean, I have nothing against straight people but I don't agree with their lifestyles. I mean, its all over tv and shoved into the faces of children, they're kissing and holding hands in public, its disgusting" tends to make them take a step back and think about the words they just allowed out of their mouths.
Also: “I think there’s nothing wrong with being straight as long as you don’t act on it. But if you act on it, that’s really really bad.” (Then claim this isn’t a double standard, because straight people can still “choose” to get with people of the same sex, just like anyone can.) “If you’re straight you should keep that to yourself and not tell anyone, because we don’t want that shoved in our faces.” And if they’re religious: “I have nothing against religious people, I just don’t agree with their lifestyle.”
The lifestyle? Like having great jobs, lots of money, traveling abroad, going to wine/whisky tastings, working out, and living in a chic apartment? I mean that's the lifestyle of some of the gay guys I know, but what a weird thing to "disagree with."
No, no, no. The lifestyle obviously involves miniature painting, and a love of board games and traveling. At least that’s my impression of the Gay Lifestyle
Fuck man does this mean i need to say no homo more often
I think I have something 'against' everyone that I disagree with, in that I disagree with them. Right? I've had gay friends all my life, and the universal response to that is most gay people don't give two fucks whether you 'agree' with them or not. Just leave people alone and mind your own business.
"agree"???? Agree with what??? Where's the opinion/claim? You could just like be straight and let others be gay
Given that what your brother defines as "the lifestyle" is pretty critical to happiness and function (marriage, children, general popular acceptance) then yes it is a contradiction. You have to press it further. Does he want gay people to be happy? Even if that means legally accepted marriage? Socially accepted? Legal adoption? Socially accepted adoption?
Yes. Because being homosexual is not a "lifestyle."
What does "agree with a lifestyle" mean? Who is asking them to agree to it? Why is it any of his business to agree?