Robin Williams did this movie where he accidentally becomes president. He had a great line about flag burning amendments. The line is something along the lines of, if they wanted to stop the American flag from being desecrated, they would ban American flag thongs in XXL. Politicians love to discuss flag burning, because it means that they don't have to do anything.. when you do something, , someone's gonna get pissed. So better to waste time and get reelected.
Seems to apply
I remember 20 years ago, the US government became obsessed with the Terri Schiavo case, where a woman had been in a persistent vegetative state after cardiac arrest in 1990. For over a decade, the husband and the parents had been fighting over letting this poor braindead woman die, and a bunch of conservative politicians stepped in to keep her on life support, with Florida Governor Jeb "Please Clap" Bush getting the legislature to pass a law just so Jeb could order doctors to keep her alive.
That bullshit got tied up in the Florida courts for a while until the law was deemed unconstitutional, then the Republicans in US Congress started mucking around with it, passing more bullshit they called the "Palm Sunday Compromise," which transferred jurisdiction for the case (and only this case) to the federal courts. Jeb's brother Dubya even flew back from Texas in the middle of the night just to sign it. Some idiot Republicans also tried to subpoena Terri Schiavo herself to testify. After all that, the federal courts said it was all dumb shit, then SCOTUS refused to hear it, and the doctors finally just let the poor woman die already.
Like, yeah, it's all sad, but what the fuck was all that political theater? A cruel distraction from the Iraq War?
I media and press did a great job sensationalizing theatrics to take attention away from stories.
Somewhat like what the Enquirer did for Trump.
Or when the Mueller report came out all stations and newspapers, & PBS changed their reporting to fit Trumps/Barr memo .
Trumps guy AG Barr’s memo was followed by the media. Buried the Mueller report. Media especially NBC had no rebuttals
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-redacted-barr-memo-released-by-the-doj
I was enrolled at her HS alma mater from 96-98 and it was debated during a few religion classes even before the initial request to cease tube feedings. I remember having the impression that people were more upset at the husband for having started a relationship w another woman rather than focusing on the RC church policy of "right to live" or thinking about what quality of life the woman had. The whole thing was fucking gross.
Exactly. This should be a five-minute meeting.
"All those in favor of making child marriage illegal? Ok. All those opposed to... Hey Kevin. What the fuck?"
Honestly, calling for a nationwide ban on child marriage could be a really good strategy this year. It will make some of the creeps in congress indefensible.
Yeah one of the other upvoted comments is saying that in some places it’s just shit that was never changed that wasn’t a big deal. Which is likely true in some places. But especially in the US, we have tons of politicians actually trying to defend it, or even lower the age. That’s fucking vile
You can tell so much about a state by its laws on this and how they acted when the fight against child marriage started finding real traction in thw US in 2018 with the first bans passed in DE and NJ.
It was like the northeast, WA, and MI went, "Oh, shit, we allow kids to marry? Gotta fix this NOW." And thus, in a mere 6 years, 12 bans in US states and 2 in US territories became law, and CA and NH are currently in the process of joining them.
I suspect losing VA's loopholes for child marriage stung most for the opponents of these laws. After all, the GOP has more power there than in, say, MA. Yet they could not prevent this change even in VA
Cue the full panic we're seeing, with endless defenses of the indefensible by a big clump of politicians. Sadly, they are also passing laws in states they do control. The gap of progress widens yet further between states.
they also defend statue limitations on crimes against children. you could be barely am adult, only just starting to understand what happened to you and have no recourse.
You know what's weird? Nevada has the age of consent at 18. You'd think Vegas would result in that being heavily skewed lower. But nope, it's a solid 18
Saying arizona is blue is insane. They have Democrat governor, republican senate and house. For 12 of the last 14 years they have had republican senate house and governors. I agree with you on California
I was just in AZ, if it's blue they are hiding it well. The first gas station I stopped at had a Zoltan machine with Trump in it instead of Zoltan lol.
Leader of the Missouri GOP, 65-year-old Rep. Dean Van Schoiack, in response to the introduction of a bill that would prohibit marriage to girls as young as 12:
**"Interference with my God-given rights to her fertile, ripe body."**
This was likely a misattribution and a bad paraphrase of a politician in New Hampshire. Either way, there's no evidence that Rep. Dean Van Schoiack ever said this. https://ryanmcbeth.substack.com/p/did-a-republican-rep-call-12-year
Not trying to be rude, but didn't they prove that comment to be out of context?
I have seen that comment examined elsewhere but this should sum it up:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bPXoHpO-9Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bPXoHpO-9Y)
Many countries have old laws that they have neglected to clean up, usually because it isn't seen as a very big problem.
The UK, for example, still has a guy whose job is to go to the coast with a spyglass and watch out for Napoleon, in case he should invade.
Edit: I am reading that the post was officially abolished in 1945; (again, this is still nuts), but I had a professor in grad school who attended the local parade where the guy did his yearly stroll to the cliffs. The job duties had supposedly been rolled into another position in the village; though whether or not this is true or counts I dunno.
I was thinking the other day how there aren’t great AMAs anymore. No more presidents or A-listers. (I know Arnold S. and Snoop pop up occasionally when summoned)
There aren’t “famous” active Reddit accounts like there used to be - poem for your sprog, unidan, Vargas, shitty_watercolour (correction: he’s quite active), the fucks with ducks guy… (Rita Oak had a nice run recently)
We don’t have anymore legendary stories like Colby, broken arms guy, jolly rancher, cum box, etc.
What I’m trying to say is, I miss the old days :’(
I’m pretty sure there was someone at Reddit whose job was to arrange AMAs and helped even transcribe answers. They got in contact with managers and agents and made shit happen. I vaguely recall them being laid off and AMAs essentially disappeared after that.
Edit: [Reddit fired Victoria in July 2015.](https://imgur.com/allegedly-reason-behind-victorias-termination-3vgUQSP)
The [physicist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cox_(physicist)) or [actor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cox_(actor))? Either would be hugely entertaining. Professor Brian Cox's shows, especially [The Infinite Monkey Cage,](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00snr0w) on BBC Radio 4, are brilliant.
I haven't thought about /u/poem_for_your_sprog in eons.
I used to get so excited seeing them out and about in various posts. It really brightened up my day
>I was thinking the other day how there aren’t great AMAs anymore. No more presidents or A-listers
Oh of you go further back than that to before all the Victoria drama then it's even worse by comparison. AMA used to be for regular people with unusual experiences ("I skydived into a vat of custard, AMA. I have two vaginas, AMA. I live in a two bedroom flat with 89 ferrets, AMA." That kind of stuff.)
Then reddit figured out that they could sell the format as a marketing space and that's how we ended up talking about Rampart.
Incidentally, AskReddit used to be filled with posts that went like, "Here's an insane story I want to share. What was *your* craziest experience with a snapping turtle?" Then they banned main post text and now it's a shithole filled with thinly veiled astrotufing and the same ten questions tumbling around like a red sock in a load of whites.
At least they banned all the "What's the sexiest sex you've ever sexed" questions. (I think? Not been there in a while.)
I've been on Reddit too long but I believe Unidan was caught having multiple accounts to upvote and boost his own comments. Which was silly considering his comments always ended up at the top anyway since he gave helpful information. Not sure about Vargas but I'll check back because I'm curious too.
Idk, that guy probably also oversees the scouts watching for colonist saboteurs, Vikings, the Spanish Armada, the Romans, the French in general, etc. Pretty high stress job if you ask me.
Monday: No sign of Napoleon.
Tuesday: No sign of Napoleon.
Wednesday: No sign of Napoleon.
Thursday: No sign of Napoleon.
Friday: No sign of Napoleon.
Saturday: : No sign of Napoleon.
Sunday: **HOLY FUCK IS THAT...?!?!** No sign of Napoleon.
Please tell me this guy is required to wear a silly old-timey uniform, like the Royal Guard at Buckingham. This is absolutely the PERFECT job to require a silly old-timey uniform.
I can understand not clearing up small laws like “it’s an act of treason to stick a postage stamp upside down”, but acting like they “forgot or couldn’t be bothered” with the “do not marry or fuck kids” law is a bit of a stretch tbh, politicians over the years (and their constituents if they are supporting it) can hang their heads in shame
The reason they don't expunge the daft laws is either nobody ever breaks them (it's illegal to give a moose alcohol) or nobody/nothing is harmed in them being broken (it's illegal to fall asleep with your shoes on in a cheese factory).
The child marriage laws fail on both these counts.
> We found that some 297,033 children were married in the U.S. **between 2000 and 2018**: 232,474 based on marriage-certificate data plus 64,559 based on estimates (Table 1). **A few children were as young as 10 years when they married**, but of those for whom age information was available, nearly all—96%—were aged 16 or 17 years. Of those for whom age, gender, and spousal information was available, **78% were girls (under 18 years of age) wed to adult men** (aged 18 years or older).
https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21)00341-4/fulltext
you mean the one that always shout they are protecting kids while they try and push through laws that allow for common law marriage without age restriction?
Except in America some of these laws were recently updated. Some states raised it from 15 to 16. Some raised it from 16 to 17. These aren’t old laws on the books, these are laws that people have been fighting to change for years.
When Chris Christie was governor of New Jersey he famously refused to outlaw child marriages and explained it would upset the orthodox Jewish community too much.
To quote a report on the findings of a study about utilizing workers in social welfare, "In 1803, the British created a civil service job calling for a man to stand on the Cliffs of Dover with a spyglass. He was supposed to ring a bell if he saw Napoleon coming. \*\*The job was abolished in 1945\*\* "
Nope. People have tried to change these laws recently. There was even a girl scout they wrote news articles about lobbying to end it and the lawmakers said they wanna keep child marriage. This isn't some old obscure law. People are marrying kids and it's fucked up and treated as if it's normal. Usually because "religious freedom"
Oh no... this is very much still in active use in the US. In Christian Fundamentalism.
The point is marrying away daughters before they have legal rights to seek independence. The hardcore sects even avoid getting birth certificates. So their kids wont be able to apply for federal aid or passports or any other documentation.
Last time I heard this myth it was debunked.
The position is still technically in existence because no one just deleted it, but no one is collecting a check from it, IIRC?
It's easy to speculate this fun hypothetical on why -- but there is a truth & facts available too.
Have you notice that in the U.S. that a lot of Republicans [are still defending child marriage and want these laws to stay. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/m5AhtaT2VS)
This is a topic I've followed for a long time as part of my job. Here's [a good website](https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/) with excellent data and insights. I know some people think child marriage doesn't really happen in the US, but that's not true. Data showed that the vast majority of child marriages (reliable sources vary between 78% and 95%) were between a minor girl and an adult man. There's also [a good article here](https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/4283941-child-marriage-is-still-legal-in-most-of-the-u-s-heres-why/) that also talks why some states have more child marriages than others.
3 of my female cousins were married to men in their early 20’s when they were under 18. We live in the Florida suburbs too, not some tiny mountain town. It absolutely is still happening, usually in religious families, such as my family of origin.
Did they marry their youth pastors?
It’s almost a predictable trope now. 20-something youth pastor, one tattoo, long hair optional, but not beyond the shoulder. Plays guitar in a Christian punk band. Former atheist, but what he means by “atheist” is that he was raised Christian, but never really paid attention to it, had premarital sex, and smoked weed once. Has an open secret relationship with underage girl in youth group, usually more than one girl. Everyone knew, but you were not supposed to talk about it. Marries the girl under two conditions: pregnant before 18, or the day she turned 18. Either way, they have a miraculously healthy fully developed premature baby six months after the wedding.
Ha no, but that WAS my Aunt’s story, so you were close. And also yeeeeppp 2/3 were pregnant before being married off, the third they found out was sleeping with the guy and made them marry.
Out of my 6 female cousins, 2 of us made it past 18 not pregnant. Me and one other.
Exactly! Child marriage is a big issue in the US. Human trafficking in the US is also a much bigger issue than I would have expected :/. So unnecessary in such a resource rich country. Just let these children grow up before these life changing decisions are made for them.
and yet the most upvoted comments are “it’s a relic!” and “it’s for teens to marry one another if one gets pregnant!!” ☹️
Thank you for sharing the data and the sources, I was wondering how far I’d have to damn scroll before I didn’t see people overshadowing that this is primarily about old men and predation on young girls 😡
It started with two basic facts:
" Back then we made our own fun"
And
"Once they're old enough to want to, they're going to"
Before sex education and birth control, marrying young was a way of dealing with the inevitable babies that resulted. (Which also is why it was widely accepted that an eager young bride could deliver a child in only 7 months when everyone else needed 9)
In addition, getting girls married off young meant someone else was taking on the responsibility for their care. To some extent, a girl child was seen as more of "just another mouth to feed" than a boy was. To be fair, boys were more likely to get sent off to take on a man's job far too soon as well. US coal mines would take boys as young as eight.
That's the brutal facts that were just a part of daily life back then. Rural areas are more conservative and tradition minded, so it's still commonly accepted that those older solutions are justified.
And obviously, humans being the pricks they can occasionally be, sometimes this results in serious injustice. The headline grabbing cases of 12 yr olds being married off to some man in his 30s are more rare than you'd think, but they still happen.
The problem is, while it isn't a practical solution anymore, it is very difficult to stamp out. Unlike child labour in factories and mines, there is no central location you can send an inspector. You can require that clerks not issue marriage licenses until all parties are of legal age, but then the couple will have a godly marriage in an accommodating church and fix the legal stuff years later.
When at least one of the marriage partners is under the general marriage age, the marriage is considered underage. Twelve states completely ban underage marriage: [Connecticut](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut), [Delaware](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware), [Massachusetts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts), [Minnesota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota), [New Jersey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey), [New York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_(state)), [Pennsylvania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania), [Vermont](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont), [Michigan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan),[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#cite_note-3) [Rhode Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhode_Island), [Washington](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_(state))[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#cite_note-4) and [Virginia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia).[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#cite_note-:1-5) The other states may require the underage partner to obtain either parental consent, judicial authorization, or both, or rely on "exceptional circumstances". The minimum underage marriage age, when all mitigating circumstances are taken into account, commonly ranges from 15 to 17. Six states do not allow a person over 21 to marry an underage person. As of April 2024, four US states do not set any minimum age for marriage.[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#cite_note-:0-6)
>You can get married in Canada at 16
That's just the federal minimum, provincially its 18-19 except for certain circumstances, usually parental permission
18 In France for almost 20 years and you needed both parents and the couple's consent before that anyway. Reading the responses you got about your others exemples, it seems most of them are wrong.
Some States don't even have a minimum age... I remember a time when whataboutism was done right!
These laws pre-date that. It was socially acceptable for women to be married much younger... basically as soon as the woman is able to bear children. This is also when women were more likely to die in childbirth…
Then we can discuss how women also weren’t able to have their own bank accounts without a man.
Why this hasn’t become a top social issue demanding change is beyond me.
That's what shocks me the most is that nobody seems to be talking about it. Everything that's being brought up now is about protecting children and so many crazy things are happening in the name of that yet here is a huge problem that's hurting children and nobody is saying anything about it
Yes, many of these laws have been on the books for a very long time. However, every year, at least one state pushes to raise the minimum age for marriage. Some raise the age without much of a fuss. Others fight to keep it low and win. Conservatives like em' young.
No, I can't explain California keeping it low. It probably has something to do with dirtbags across the political spectrum running the show
You're going to have to clarify this.
Not every state has "romeo & juliet laws". If two 15 year olds have sex, that can still be prosecuted as rape in some places.
Unless they get caught in the act, there usually isn't much evidence to hold a trial with. BUT - if they make a baby, that's evidence.
The old way, and the old laws allowed for the couple to get married in order to avoid trouble with the law.
Some states have updated laws with close in age exceptions ("romeo & juliet"), some haven't. But the old law allowing for a marriage when all interested parties agree - sometimes including parents and a judge or social worker - are often still on the books.
Those laws aren't designed to protect predatory adults.
In my state, people can get married at 15 with parental permission. And it's designed for pretty much exactly that. The girl gets pregnant, and to avoid scandal the guy marries her.
Mostly this is an older law from when unmarried teen pregnancy was considered shocking. We've added a Romeo and Juliet law since then, but never removed the original law. And given that I've never actually heard of somebody getting married that young, it's just not really a priority to change it.
Which state are u? Because this report u could easily find goes state by state. In Alabama in 2019, a 14 year old girl married a 70 year old man, is an example they cite (pg 17, i think).
Now everyone arguing here these laws serve to make kids the same age who get pregnant marry each other, or involve the full consensus of all parties involved - which one of your rose-tinted glasses u wanna use to read that story? Do u just avoid reality or are u that naive.
Actually it is sadly. A lot of states have a loophole that essentially make pedophilia legal as long as the child is married to the rapist. I learned about this years ago when Delaware first closed their loophole and here's a more recent article about it.
https://www.newsweek.com/child-marriage-havens-america-1911325
1. Children shouldn't be pressured into a legally binding marriage because they had sex. They should be given contraception and education. Simple.
2. Evidence indicates that around 87% of these "marriages" occur between a 10-17 year old girl and an adult man. Here is a short but through news article on the issue https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/200-000-children-married-us-15-years-child-marriage-child-brides-new-jersey-chris-christie-a7830266.html
It depends on the way the law is written. Many of those old laws require penetration to happen before "rape" can happen, so usually only the man/boy gets the charge.
If you look at the vote breakdown of child marriage laws in states where it passed there is a consistent breakdown by party. Last I updated a personal list I track in 2023 (when michigan passed a ban). Among the 10 states that had banned it at the time, there were 77 Nays total against the bills that have banned it. 12 of those nays were dems. 55 republicans.
The arguments are generally about teen pregnancy or that older teens should be able to get married so they don’t have sex outside of marriage.
I haven’t updated my sheet to breakdown Washington’s and Virginia’s Nays (if any) but party.
Edit: to clarify there have been marriages between minors and much older adults (30+). And the whole practice leads to rampant abuse. There’s all sorts of serious legal complications too
>The arguments are generally about teen pregnancy or that older teens should be able to get married so they don’t have sex outside of marriage.
That's the argument they'll say publicly but then you notice their wife is 20 years younger and they became friends because she babysat for him while a freshman in high school.
That Republican with the "grandson" making funny faces during his speech (actually his son) met his future wife while she was in high school and he was a powerful figure awarding her money for college and...they kept in touch.
Yeah let me correct. The reason i follow these bills is because some judges have approved straight up pedophilic marriages often between teen girls and men 30+.
They claim its for 2 17 year olds to get married, only a couple of states have restricted a maximum age gap
Judges are the only thing standing between a girl being sold off to a pedo by their parents for a sham marriage. It's really sad that so many of them just rubberstamp and never go "hey, not only am I not approving this marriage but I'm reporting you to CPS and the police."
My best guess would be "preservation of religious and cultural traditions," which is always the cop-out American politicians use to justify their horrors.
I believe it’s religion based, but I still don’t think it’s okay. A lot of religious beliefs have us women looking as if we can’t make decisions for ourselves therefore it’s done for us. Sad, but true.
One word. Christians. No... seriously. They are the only ones that refuse to kill these laws. Every time its brought up, some christian group or offshoot decides Nope! Violation of religious freedom. And boom. Still have child marriages.
The Conservative reasoning is that every child deserves two parents who are married to each other, so children must be allowed to get married in order to raise the children that they might make from the premarital sex they might have. It’s not an argument that’s particularly “Christian,” except insofar as it prevents abortions and punishes premarital sex, and insofar as Christian Nationalism is intertwined with movement Conservatism.
Oh, and also so that teenagers can have sex without it being a sin. That part is SUPER Christian all on its own.
The UK only changed it up to 18 last year because Muslim immigrants were doing it very young and in large numbers, very young girls and older men (supposedly, not sure what is hysteria these days) and so there was political blow-back FWIW.
I cannot believe how many comments defend or excuse this situation. Yes, it’s not in all states. Yes, it’s an old law. Yes, somewhere else in the world kids also can get married.
But ffs how can you not be outraged that it’s legal in your country??? A 10-year old getting married is not ok under any circumstances.
At least the question the OP posted was indirectly answered. People just don’t think it’s that problematic.
It's really disturbing how many people are trying to skirt answering the question by saying that it's in other places or that it's not technically that bad or that there's some other reason to ignore it going on.
There are 51 different sets of marriage laws in the United States. Each state has its own, plus DC.
Most states have minimum age of marriage at 16 or 17. It’s not like it’s legal for 9 year olds to get married anywhere. “Child marriage” is a somewhat misleading framing of the issues.
These are old laws. Until the 1970s, the age of majority was 21 and states didn’t even think about it when setting the minimum marriage age.
Legislators probably aren’t going to spend much time raising the minimum age of marriage 1-2 years.
I just read an article about child marriage in the USA. The woman they interviewed was raped by a much older man, became pregnant and was forced to marry her rapist. This is legal and a major loophole in our laws, it is absolutely worth devoting time to. As a minor you are not allowed to divorce either, it took her years to escape the marriage.
https://www.newsweek.com/child-marriage-havens-america-1911325
Why is abortion illegal?
Why is the drinking age 21, yet the driving age 15/16, and military service 17?
Why can't you file federal taxes without paying some third-party company for it?
Why is healthcare so expensive yet as a nation you spend more, per head, on government-funded healthcare than nations with 100% free healthcare?
Republicans, fundamentalists and libertarians are how it stays legal.
Men only being comfortable sexing a woman who is too inexperienced to know how bad they are is why it stays legal.
Because most teenagers who get married (67%, according to [Unchained at Last](https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/))are 17, and a further 29% are 16.
You can argue getting married that young is a really stupid choice, and I’d mostly agree. But is it so stupid that it needs to be illegal? I’m not so sure. Philosophically, I have a hard time with the idea that “my body, my choice” for a pregnant teen old enough to work, drive and drop out of school doesn’t extend to the choice to marry one’s partner.
What I’m left with is a pretty dry argument that no one too young to sign a contract should be allowed to legally marry. That’s valid, but it doesn’t get attention the way horror stories about raped 12-year-olds do.
If it were up to me, I’d set marriage age at 16 with consent from both a parent and a judge required, and establish that being married made someone a legal adult in terms of the right to file for divorce. But it’s not up to me, so we keep having this fight where one side says “ewwww, pedophilia” and the other side says “my aunt got married at 17 and they’ve been happy for 35 years,” and nobody wants to acknowledge the middle ground.
This is going to sound harsh but in many parts of the world uneducated women are still seen as a burden to the family. So although forcing your young daughter into marriage is an abhorrent practice some people pretend it's practical. They delude themselves into thinking that they'll be able to have a better household without the daughter and she'll have a better life with that often older guy. In other cases they don't want another mouth to feed and feel less guilt seeing their daughter married than just kicked out.
Ultimately though it exists because we don't have living legislation nor do most states offer an easy way for the common person to upend laws. Every state has antiquated laws on the books that a certain group benefits from or aren't enforced.
Last thing I'll say is that some people are way too accepting of other cultures. A girl I dated in college had parents who immigrated to the US in the 80s from a south east Asian country. At the age of 12 she was married off to the son of one of their allies. He was in his early 20s. By 13 she was pregnant. Nobody at her school called the cops and they all wrote it off as respecting cultural differences even as she was visibly pregnant in middle school and being picked up by this grown man who was frankly raping her. As western influence and seeing her classmates doing certain things crept in her marriage broke down and eventually they split and the kid went with dad but I think that and other experiences affected her in a bad way.
To be 100% clear they were never married in the eyes of the US as they never signed court papers. In another situation where a junkie "married" year old daughter off to a John in that case they too didn't sign paper work. That one didn't come to an end until at 16 he took her down to make her legally his wife and someone at the court house pulled her and her mom aside.
There is a weird belief in a bunch of American Christian sects that if a young unwed mother gets pregnant and marries, she is absolved of sin. That out of wedlock sex is sinful, but if they marry, it's then okay. It's a really weird jump of logic that makes absolutely no sense at all. That is why so many, many states fight to keep marriages at such a low age. I think Kentucky is the lowest at 14.
These very odd religions use shame a lot to keep their members in line and keep them cowered enough to continue in the faith.
All over the US, people are leaving churches. So, I think, in enough time, we will defeat this. But it's going to take perhaps 100 more years of fighting this very weird belief of shame and magical thinking.
Well actual children like under the age of 16 aren’t getting married all too often in the US. Instead the majority of the “child marriages” are two teenagers who are expecting a baby and they either decide to get married or the parents force them to get married. Not saying it’s right but I can understand the point. Of course there are some actual horrifying child marriages going on that involve a teen and an adult man but these are usually extreme fringe religious groups
over 200,000 children under the age of 16 have been married in the US in the past 10 years and more than 50% of them were married to a significantly older partner. The source is [unchainedatlast.org](http://unchainedatlast.org)
Source?
That isn't consistent with the data I've seen, and it certainly skips right over the most egregious cases that have been publicized.
According to unchained at last, on average You're looking at a 16-17 f wed to a 20-21 m, and intentional or not that's a tidy little way to circumvent statutory rape.
Religion is often involved when a child is married to an adult man. The politicians are often either a member of the religion or cannot get elected without support from members.
It isn't so that 50 year old rich guys can marry 14 year old girls.... It is so parents can force the 14 and 15 year old kids, that got pregant to not have the kid out of wedlock.
It is still not something I support, but it is less nefarious than than many imply.
Maybe that was the intention, but the fact is that a 74 year old man legally "married" a 14 year old girl in Alabama recently.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/200-000-children-married-us-15-years-child-marriage-child-brides-new-jersey-chris-christie-a7830266.html
And most child marriages occur between a girl and an adult man.
https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/
For the same reason abortions are being outlawed again.
Many view women as second class citizens who should be married and subservient to a husband. The same people who are now trying to outlaw divorce as they are tired of women trying to escape bad marriages.
The better question is why are politicians defending it?
Robin Williams did this movie where he accidentally becomes president. He had a great line about flag burning amendments. The line is something along the lines of, if they wanted to stop the American flag from being desecrated, they would ban American flag thongs in XXL. Politicians love to discuss flag burning, because it means that they don't have to do anything.. when you do something, , someone's gonna get pissed. So better to waste time and get reelected. Seems to apply
I remember 20 years ago, the US government became obsessed with the Terri Schiavo case, where a woman had been in a persistent vegetative state after cardiac arrest in 1990. For over a decade, the husband and the parents had been fighting over letting this poor braindead woman die, and a bunch of conservative politicians stepped in to keep her on life support, with Florida Governor Jeb "Please Clap" Bush getting the legislature to pass a law just so Jeb could order doctors to keep her alive. That bullshit got tied up in the Florida courts for a while until the law was deemed unconstitutional, then the Republicans in US Congress started mucking around with it, passing more bullshit they called the "Palm Sunday Compromise," which transferred jurisdiction for the case (and only this case) to the federal courts. Jeb's brother Dubya even flew back from Texas in the middle of the night just to sign it. Some idiot Republicans also tried to subpoena Terri Schiavo herself to testify. After all that, the federal courts said it was all dumb shit, then SCOTUS refused to hear it, and the doctors finally just let the poor woman die already. Like, yeah, it's all sad, but what the fuck was all that political theater? A cruel distraction from the Iraq War?
What was that you say? Sir, that was the party of small government and personal freedoms showing you exactly how much they believe what they say.
South Park made a great episode with that as the main inspiration.
Now I want shaky’s pizza.
That’s exactly what it was, a distraction from the war. They didn’t want people knowing about Cheney and KBR / Halliburton.
To be clear, Terri's parents wanted to keep her alive. So it was parents vs. the husband. That might be what you're saying, but I wasn't sure.
I remember that. Just a teen at the time and feeling absolutely sick that this woman and her husband couldn’t have peace. So vile.
I media and press did a great job sensationalizing theatrics to take attention away from stories. Somewhat like what the Enquirer did for Trump. Or when the Mueller report came out all stations and newspapers, & PBS changed their reporting to fit Trumps/Barr memo . Trumps guy AG Barr’s memo was followed by the media. Buried the Mueller report. Media especially NBC had no rebuttals https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-redacted-barr-memo-released-by-the-doj
This is random... but I love your avatar pic 🤣
I was enrolled at her HS alma mater from 96-98 and it was debated during a few religion classes even before the initial request to cease tube feedings. I remember having the impression that people were more upset at the husband for having started a relationship w another woman rather than focusing on the RC church policy of "right to live" or thinking about what quality of life the woman had. The whole thing was fucking gross.
Just a patriotic dick measuring contest for their own self gratification
Exactly. This should be a five-minute meeting. "All those in favor of making child marriage illegal? Ok. All those opposed to... Hey Kevin. What the fuck?"
Honestly, calling for a nationwide ban on child marriage could be a really good strategy this year. It will make some of the creeps in congress indefensible.
Yeah one of the other upvoted comments is saying that in some places it’s just shit that was never changed that wasn’t a big deal. Which is likely true in some places. But especially in the US, we have tons of politicians actually trying to defend it, or even lower the age. That’s fucking vile
You can tell so much about a state by its laws on this and how they acted when the fight against child marriage started finding real traction in thw US in 2018 with the first bans passed in DE and NJ. It was like the northeast, WA, and MI went, "Oh, shit, we allow kids to marry? Gotta fix this NOW." And thus, in a mere 6 years, 12 bans in US states and 2 in US territories became law, and CA and NH are currently in the process of joining them. I suspect losing VA's loopholes for child marriage stung most for the opponents of these laws. After all, the GOP has more power there than in, say, MA. Yet they could not prevent this change even in VA Cue the full panic we're seeing, with endless defenses of the indefensible by a big clump of politicians. Sadly, they are also passing laws in states they do control. The gap of progress widens yet further between states.
I guess they just love to control women's lives because their interpretation of some rotten old book told them to.
they also defend statue limitations on crimes against children. you could be barely am adult, only just starting to understand what happened to you and have no recourse.
I’m assuming because their exact marital situation is the result of this practice
because the GOP wants the white trash vote
The GOP in blue states that have no minimum age like California must be pretty powerful.
You know what's weird? Nevada has the age of consent at 18. You'd think Vegas would result in that being heavily skewed lower. But nope, it's a solid 18
Isn’t the age of consent 16 in Nevada?
The age of consent is 16, but the minimum age to get married (absent parental/court consent) is 18.
[Thank you for correcting my retardation.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States)
Isn't it funny how California is always left out of this conversation? Just a coincidence I'm sure.
I looked at a map, it seems like a lot of blue/red states have low age minimums. 2 of 4 of the states that have no age minimum are blue, CA and AZ.
Saying arizona is blue is insane. They have Democrat governor, republican senate and house. For 12 of the last 14 years they have had republican senate house and governors. I agree with you on California
I was just in AZ, if it's blue they are hiding it well. The first gas station I stopped at had a Zoltan machine with Trump in it instead of Zoltan lol.
I thunk what we're learning here is all mainstream politicians are scumbags and nobody is interested in correcting this.
Some of them employed it maybe?
*and want it to be available to their sons as well.
It’s not just “politicians”. It’s party line.
Leader of the Missouri GOP, 65-year-old Rep. Dean Van Schoiack, in response to the introduction of a bill that would prohibit marriage to girls as young as 12: **"Interference with my God-given rights to her fertile, ripe body."**
This was likely a misattribution and a bad paraphrase of a politician in New Hampshire. Either way, there's no evidence that Rep. Dean Van Schoiack ever said this. https://ryanmcbeth.substack.com/p/did-a-republican-rep-call-12-year
This is a fake quote, though.
Not trying to be rude, but didn't they prove that comment to be out of context? I have seen that comment examined elsewhere but this should sum it up: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bPXoHpO-9Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bPXoHpO-9Y)
Phew. That was a bit *too* rapey.
Many countries have old laws that they have neglected to clean up, usually because it isn't seen as a very big problem. The UK, for example, still has a guy whose job is to go to the coast with a spyglass and watch out for Napoleon, in case he should invade. Edit: I am reading that the post was officially abolished in 1945; (again, this is still nuts), but I had a professor in grad school who attended the local parade where the guy did his yearly stroll to the cliffs. The job duties had supposedly been rolled into another position in the village; though whether or not this is true or counts I dunno.
This is the kind of person we need an AMA for. "I keep an eye out for Napoleon for the UK. Ask Me Anything!"
I was thinking the other day how there aren’t great AMAs anymore. No more presidents or A-listers. (I know Arnold S. and Snoop pop up occasionally when summoned) There aren’t “famous” active Reddit accounts like there used to be - poem for your sprog, unidan, Vargas, shitty_watercolour (correction: he’s quite active), the fucks with ducks guy… (Rita Oak had a nice run recently) We don’t have anymore legendary stories like Colby, broken arms guy, jolly rancher, cum box, etc. What I’m trying to say is, I miss the old days :’(
I’m pretty sure there was someone at Reddit whose job was to arrange AMAs and helped even transcribe answers. They got in contact with managers and agents and made shit happen. I vaguely recall them being laid off and AMAs essentially disappeared after that. Edit: [Reddit fired Victoria in July 2015.](https://imgur.com/allegedly-reason-behind-victorias-termination-3vgUQSP)
I forgot all about Victoria! She was revered.
The loss of her at the helm marked the end of an era and the steady decline of AMAs.
Has Brian Cox ever done an AMA? Would love to see that
The [physicist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cox_(physicist)) or [actor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cox_(actor))? Either would be hugely entertaining. Professor Brian Cox's shows, especially [The Infinite Monkey Cage,](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00snr0w) on BBC Radio 4, are brilliant.
I haven't thought about /u/poem_for_your_sprog in eons. I used to get so excited seeing them out and about in various posts. It really brightened up my day
/u/poem_for_your_sprog still posts poems occasionally: https://www.reddit.com/u/Poem_for_your_sprog/s/KZM5m7g5Gm
I see shittymorph pop up every now and then, but yeah it’s becoming a lot more of a random mess of stuff.
Let's try to keep the conversation about Rampart please.
Classic!
u/shitty_watercolour is still active
Edited my comment
>I was thinking the other day how there aren’t great AMAs anymore. No more presidents or A-listers Oh of you go further back than that to before all the Victoria drama then it's even worse by comparison. AMA used to be for regular people with unusual experiences ("I skydived into a vat of custard, AMA. I have two vaginas, AMA. I live in a two bedroom flat with 89 ferrets, AMA." That kind of stuff.) Then reddit figured out that they could sell the format as a marketing space and that's how we ended up talking about Rampart. Incidentally, AskReddit used to be filled with posts that went like, "Here's an insane story I want to share. What was *your* craziest experience with a snapping turtle?" Then they banned main post text and now it's a shithole filled with thinly veiled astrotufing and the same ten questions tumbling around like a red sock in a load of whites. At least they banned all the "What's the sexiest sex you've ever sexed" questions. (I think? Not been there in a while.)
Forgot all about Unidan and Vargas. What was it that those two did?
I've been on Reddit too long but I believe Unidan was caught having multiple accounts to upvote and boost his own comments. Which was silly considering his comments always ended up at the top anyway since he gave helpful information. Not sure about Vargas but I'll check back because I'm curious too.
New reddit kinda blows.
Shitty watercolour is active again???
Yes, quite.
You clearly missed the $5 crow.
Here’s the thing. You said “a jackdaw is a crow”.
Ah. Another bird. Did that one steal $10 from a taco vendor?
...Cum box?
not as bad as the 4chan mlp cum jar. the box? think ants
it’s because they decided to ban everyone lol for different things
"Have you seen Napoleon?" "No." \[This thread has been locked\]
Lol, that would be a cool job. If I had it I would fuck off somewhere on vacation and just say I did it.
That’s why you would never be hired. The moment you let your guard down is when this motherfucker always shows up. This is our concern.
See I’d be on call 24/7. Call my boss every couple months at 3am to say I thought I saw a bicorne on the horizon but it could just be a seagull.
Talk about a cake job: The *boss* of the Napoleon scout.
Idk, that guy probably also oversees the scouts watching for colonist saboteurs, Vikings, the Spanish Armada, the Romans, the French in general, etc. Pretty high stress job if you ask me.
I like how there’s two separate scouts for the French and Napoleon. Like he invades on his free time as a hobby.
Like's to sneak across the channel and go to the water parks!
Is that the same guy who was supposed to be looking out for the Normans? Because I’ve got some bad news about him.
Vive!
setup a remote CCTV at his grave. As soon as he claws his way out of his grave, you know to get the fuck back to the coast with your spyglass.
I understand the interest in such a person, but you have to realize that it is a 24/7 role. There is no time to do an AMA when the risks are so great
"Have you seen him yet?"
is it napoleon this time? u sure?
"Does Napoleon ever stop by to just visit?"
Q-"Have you ever thought you saw Napoleon?"
This is Napoleon and he will Invade during that AMA.
Everybody gangsta 'til Necrolich Napoleon rises.
“Do you see him?” “No” “How bout now?” “Still no”
Have you seen him yet?
Mr watchman, what is the funniest thing youve ever seen while on watch, and do you only watch the south coast of Thr UK or thr entire UK coastline?
”Have you seen Napoleon lately?”
Which Napoleon are we on now?
I bet you have to watch closely. I hear he is short. How short?
Monday: No sign of Napoleon. Tuesday: No sign of Napoleon. Wednesday: No sign of Napoleon. Thursday: No sign of Napoleon. Friday: No sign of Napoleon. Saturday: : No sign of Napoleon. Sunday: **HOLY FUCK IS THAT...?!?!** No sign of Napoleon.
Please tell me this guy is required to wear a silly old-timey uniform, like the Royal Guard at Buckingham. This is absolutely the PERFECT job to require a silly old-timey uniform.
Hopefully he's got one of those triangle hats.
The tricorne? Fitting, but I'm thinking sillier and old-timier.
I bet this dude looks exactly like Cap'N"Crunch.
I can understand not clearing up small laws like “it’s an act of treason to stick a postage stamp upside down”, but acting like they “forgot or couldn’t be bothered” with the “do not marry or fuck kids” law is a bit of a stretch tbh, politicians over the years (and their constituents if they are supporting it) can hang their heads in shame
The reason they don't expunge the daft laws is either nobody ever breaks them (it's illegal to give a moose alcohol) or nobody/nothing is harmed in them being broken (it's illegal to fall asleep with your shoes on in a cheese factory). The child marriage laws fail on both these counts.
> We found that some 297,033 children were married in the U.S. **between 2000 and 2018**: 232,474 based on marriage-certificate data plus 64,559 based on estimates (Table 1). **A few children were as young as 10 years when they married**, but of those for whom age information was available, nearly all—96%—were aged 16 or 17 years. Of those for whom age, gender, and spousal information was available, **78% were girls (under 18 years of age) wed to adult men** (aged 18 years or older). https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21)00341-4/fulltext
There is a certain party that wants to keep the law.
you mean the one that always shout they are protecting kids while they try and push through laws that allow for common law marriage without age restriction?
Yep those proud patriots lol
If they had any (shame).
I mean he came back once before "somehow napoleon has returned". We are not having that again!
"That rascal is back!"
Everybody laughs until zombie Napoleon rises from the dead to wage war on the living.
I'd watch that movie.
Except in America some of these laws were recently updated. Some states raised it from 15 to 16. Some raised it from 16 to 17. These aren’t old laws on the books, these are laws that people have been fighting to change for years.
in the US there are also politicians who are trying to keep child marriage legal
When Chris Christie was governor of New Jersey he famously refused to outlaw child marriages and explained it would upset the orthodox Jewish community too much.
What do orthodox Jews think about that?
Do they use the internet??
Exactly. u/ragewind82 that unfortunately not the case for the US. Many gross people want child marriage to still be legal
List please so we can remove them from the country.
If we did that, a *large* part of the population would be evicted. Anyway, so where do I sign up for this to happen...?
Christians and conservatives/republicans. They’re happy to force 10 year olds to go through pregnancy as well.
Because Republicans are pedophiles and like finding loopholes in the legal system.
This position was terminated in 1945 from what I heard.
To quote a report on the findings of a study about utilizing workers in social welfare, "In 1803, the British created a civil service job calling for a man to stand on the Cliffs of Dover with a spyglass. He was supposed to ring a bell if he saw Napoleon coming. \*\*The job was abolished in 1945\*\* "
Has Napoleon invaded the United Kingdom? No. Because he does his job!
Nope. People have tried to change these laws recently. There was even a girl scout they wrote news articles about lobbying to end it and the lawmakers said they wanna keep child marriage. This isn't some old obscure law. People are marrying kids and it's fucked up and treated as if it's normal. Usually because "religious freedom"
I think there were something like 300000 children married in the US last year. It's not just old laws that don't get used.
Too bad that’s not the case in the US and there are people actively trying to keep these pro-pedo laws in place.
Oh no... this is very much still in active use in the US. In Christian Fundamentalism. The point is marrying away daughters before they have legal rights to seek independence. The hardcore sects even avoid getting birth certificates. So their kids wont be able to apply for federal aid or passports or any other documentation.
Last time I heard this myth it was debunked. The position is still technically in existence because no one just deleted it, but no one is collecting a check from it, IIRC?
Also supposedly still a law to say shooting a Scotsman with a bow and arrow in York is fine as long as it's not a Sunday.
It's easy to speculate this fun hypothetical on why -- but there is a truth & facts available too. Have you notice that in the U.S. that a lot of Republicans [are still defending child marriage and want these laws to stay. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/m5AhtaT2VS)
This is a topic I've followed for a long time as part of my job. Here's [a good website](https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/) with excellent data and insights. I know some people think child marriage doesn't really happen in the US, but that's not true. Data showed that the vast majority of child marriages (reliable sources vary between 78% and 95%) were between a minor girl and an adult man. There's also [a good article here](https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/4283941-child-marriage-is-still-legal-in-most-of-the-u-s-heres-why/) that also talks why some states have more child marriages than others.
3 of my female cousins were married to men in their early 20’s when they were under 18. We live in the Florida suburbs too, not some tiny mountain town. It absolutely is still happening, usually in religious families, such as my family of origin.
Did they marry their youth pastors? It’s almost a predictable trope now. 20-something youth pastor, one tattoo, long hair optional, but not beyond the shoulder. Plays guitar in a Christian punk band. Former atheist, but what he means by “atheist” is that he was raised Christian, but never really paid attention to it, had premarital sex, and smoked weed once. Has an open secret relationship with underage girl in youth group, usually more than one girl. Everyone knew, but you were not supposed to talk about it. Marries the girl under two conditions: pregnant before 18, or the day she turned 18. Either way, they have a miraculously healthy fully developed premature baby six months after the wedding.
Ha no, but that WAS my Aunt’s story, so you were close. And also yeeeeppp 2/3 were pregnant before being married off, the third they found out was sleeping with the guy and made them marry. Out of my 6 female cousins, 2 of us made it past 18 not pregnant. Me and one other.
Exactly! Child marriage is a big issue in the US. Human trafficking in the US is also a much bigger issue than I would have expected :/. So unnecessary in such a resource rich country. Just let these children grow up before these life changing decisions are made for them.
Those are some really insightful resources, thank you for sharing.
and yet the most upvoted comments are “it’s a relic!” and “it’s for teens to marry one another if one gets pregnant!!” ☹️ Thank you for sharing the data and the sources, I was wondering how far I’d have to damn scroll before I didn’t see people overshadowing that this is primarily about old men and predation on young girls 😡
It started with two basic facts: " Back then we made our own fun" And "Once they're old enough to want to, they're going to" Before sex education and birth control, marrying young was a way of dealing with the inevitable babies that resulted. (Which also is why it was widely accepted that an eager young bride could deliver a child in only 7 months when everyone else needed 9) In addition, getting girls married off young meant someone else was taking on the responsibility for their care. To some extent, a girl child was seen as more of "just another mouth to feed" than a boy was. To be fair, boys were more likely to get sent off to take on a man's job far too soon as well. US coal mines would take boys as young as eight. That's the brutal facts that were just a part of daily life back then. Rural areas are more conservative and tradition minded, so it's still commonly accepted that those older solutions are justified. And obviously, humans being the pricks they can occasionally be, sometimes this results in serious injustice. The headline grabbing cases of 12 yr olds being married off to some man in his 30s are more rare than you'd think, but they still happen. The problem is, while it isn't a practical solution anymore, it is very difficult to stamp out. Unlike child labour in factories and mines, there is no central location you can send an inspector. You can require that clerks not issue marriage licenses until all parties are of legal age, but then the couple will have a godly marriage in an accommodating church and fix the legal stuff years later.
Unfortunately, this is really sad. But your joke about the eager young bride was hilarious af I DIED
When at least one of the marriage partners is under the general marriage age, the marriage is considered underage. Twelve states completely ban underage marriage: [Connecticut](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut), [Delaware](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware), [Massachusetts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts), [Minnesota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota), [New Jersey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey), [New York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_(state)), [Pennsylvania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania), [Vermont](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont), [Michigan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan),[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#cite_note-3) [Rhode Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhode_Island), [Washington](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_(state))[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#cite_note-4) and [Virginia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia).[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#cite_note-:1-5) The other states may require the underage partner to obtain either parental consent, judicial authorization, or both, or rely on "exceptional circumstances". The minimum underage marriage age, when all mitigating circumstances are taken into account, commonly ranges from 15 to 17. Six states do not allow a person over 21 to marry an underage person. As of April 2024, four US states do not set any minimum age for marriage.[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#cite_note-:0-6)
You can get married in Canada at 16, Mexico girls at 14, the UK only changed from 16 last year, 16 in France.... I mean... where are you from?
>the UK only changed from 16 last year England and Wales, still 16 in Scotland and Northern Ireland. NI requires parental consent at 16-17 though.
>You can get married in Canada at 16 That's just the federal minimum, provincially its 18-19 except for certain circumstances, usually parental permission
It's the same in the US, you need parental permission for most states if below 18.
18 for all states except Nebraska and Mississippi, which are 19 and 21, respectively.
You're not answering the question. Why?
18 In France for almost 20 years and you needed both parents and the couple's consent before that anyway. Reading the responses you got about your others exemples, it seems most of them are wrong. Some States don't even have a minimum age... I remember a time when whataboutism was done right!
Mexico's is 18, not 14
Because if a teenager gets pregnant, they think it’s better for her to get married
These laws pre-date that. It was socially acceptable for women to be married much younger... basically as soon as the woman is able to bear children. This is also when women were more likely to die in childbirth… Then we can discuss how women also weren’t able to have their own bank accounts without a man. Why this hasn’t become a top social issue demanding change is beyond me.
That's what shocks me the most is that nobody seems to be talking about it. Everything that's being brought up now is about protecting children and so many crazy things are happening in the name of that yet here is a huge problem that's hurting children and nobody is saying anything about it
Yes, many of these laws have been on the books for a very long time. However, every year, at least one state pushes to raise the minimum age for marriage. Some raise the age without much of a fuss. Others fight to keep it low and win. Conservatives like em' young. No, I can't explain California keeping it low. It probably has something to do with dirtbags across the political spectrum running the show
You're going to have to clarify this. Not every state has "romeo & juliet laws". If two 15 year olds have sex, that can still be prosecuted as rape in some places. Unless they get caught in the act, there usually isn't much evidence to hold a trial with. BUT - if they make a baby, that's evidence. The old way, and the old laws allowed for the couple to get married in order to avoid trouble with the law. Some states have updated laws with close in age exceptions ("romeo & juliet"), some haven't. But the old law allowing for a marriage when all interested parties agree - sometimes including parents and a judge or social worker - are often still on the books. Those laws aren't designed to protect predatory adults.
In my state, people can get married at 15 with parental permission. And it's designed for pretty much exactly that. The girl gets pregnant, and to avoid scandal the guy marries her. Mostly this is an older law from when unmarried teen pregnancy was considered shocking. We've added a Romeo and Juliet law since then, but never removed the original law. And given that I've never actually heard of somebody getting married that young, it's just not really a priority to change it.
Fwiw I didn't think any scandal had been avoided.
Which state are u? Because this report u could easily find goes state by state. In Alabama in 2019, a 14 year old girl married a 70 year old man, is an example they cite (pg 17, i think). Now everyone arguing here these laws serve to make kids the same age who get pregnant marry each other, or involve the full consensus of all parties involved - which one of your rose-tinted glasses u wanna use to read that story? Do u just avoid reality or are u that naive.
Actually it is sadly. A lot of states have a loophole that essentially make pedophilia legal as long as the child is married to the rapist. I learned about this years ago when Delaware first closed their loophole and here's a more recent article about it. https://www.newsweek.com/child-marriage-havens-america-1911325
The R. Kelly method.
1. Children shouldn't be pressured into a legally binding marriage because they had sex. They should be given contraception and education. Simple. 2. Evidence indicates that around 87% of these "marriages" occur between a 10-17 year old girl and an adult man. Here is a short but through news article on the issue https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/200-000-children-married-us-15-years-child-marriage-child-brides-new-jersey-chris-christie-a7830266.html
Genuine question. Who gets the rape charge? Both of them?
It depends on the way the law is written. Many of those old laws require penetration to happen before "rape" can happen, so usually only the man/boy gets the charge.
Thats.. kinda crazy ngl
If you think 'all interested parties agree' includes the child, you're naive
You should know the majority of these weddings are between adult men and minor girls.
If you look at the vote breakdown of child marriage laws in states where it passed there is a consistent breakdown by party. Last I updated a personal list I track in 2023 (when michigan passed a ban). Among the 10 states that had banned it at the time, there were 77 Nays total against the bills that have banned it. 12 of those nays were dems. 55 republicans. The arguments are generally about teen pregnancy or that older teens should be able to get married so they don’t have sex outside of marriage. I haven’t updated my sheet to breakdown Washington’s and Virginia’s Nays (if any) but party. Edit: to clarify there have been marriages between minors and much older adults (30+). And the whole practice leads to rampant abuse. There’s all sorts of serious legal complications too
>The arguments are generally about teen pregnancy or that older teens should be able to get married so they don’t have sex outside of marriage. That's the argument they'll say publicly but then you notice their wife is 20 years younger and they became friends because she babysat for him while a freshman in high school. That Republican with the "grandson" making funny faces during his speech (actually his son) met his future wife while she was in high school and he was a powerful figure awarding her money for college and...they kept in touch.
Yeah let me correct. The reason i follow these bills is because some judges have approved straight up pedophilic marriages often between teen girls and men 30+. They claim its for 2 17 year olds to get married, only a couple of states have restricted a maximum age gap
Judges are the only thing standing between a girl being sold off to a pedo by their parents for a sham marriage. It's really sad that so many of them just rubberstamp and never go "hey, not only am I not approving this marriage but I'm reporting you to CPS and the police."
My best guess would be "preservation of religious and cultural traditions," which is always the cop-out American politicians use to justify their horrors.
I believe it’s religion based, but I still don’t think it’s okay. A lot of religious beliefs have us women looking as if we can’t make decisions for ourselves therefore it’s done for us. Sad, but true.
One word. Christians. No... seriously. They are the only ones that refuse to kill these laws. Every time its brought up, some christian group or offshoot decides Nope! Violation of religious freedom. And boom. Still have child marriages.
The Conservative reasoning is that every child deserves two parents who are married to each other, so children must be allowed to get married in order to raise the children that they might make from the premarital sex they might have. It’s not an argument that’s particularly “Christian,” except insofar as it prevents abortions and punishes premarital sex, and insofar as Christian Nationalism is intertwined with movement Conservatism. Oh, and also so that teenagers can have sex without it being a sin. That part is SUPER Christian all on its own.
There are that many conservatives in California to hold back a change in the law? 😂
In some Middle Eastern countries you can get married at 12. What do you mean Christians?
Facts.The prophet Muhammad married a 9 year old girl. That tells you everything you need to know about them.
The UK only changed it up to 18 last year because Muslim immigrants were doing it very young and in large numbers, very young girls and older men (supposedly, not sure what is hysteria these days) and so there was political blow-back FWIW.
Religious freedom (Not defending it, just answering your question)
I cannot believe how many comments defend or excuse this situation. Yes, it’s not in all states. Yes, it’s an old law. Yes, somewhere else in the world kids also can get married. But ffs how can you not be outraged that it’s legal in your country??? A 10-year old getting married is not ok under any circumstances. At least the question the OP posted was indirectly answered. People just don’t think it’s that problematic.
It's really disturbing how many people are trying to skirt answering the question by saying that it's in other places or that it's not technically that bad or that there's some other reason to ignore it going on.
There are 51 different sets of marriage laws in the United States. Each state has its own, plus DC. Most states have minimum age of marriage at 16 or 17. It’s not like it’s legal for 9 year olds to get married anywhere. “Child marriage” is a somewhat misleading framing of the issues. These are old laws. Until the 1970s, the age of majority was 21 and states didn’t even think about it when setting the minimum marriage age. Legislators probably aren’t going to spend much time raising the minimum age of marriage 1-2 years.
I just read an article about child marriage in the USA. The woman they interviewed was raped by a much older man, became pregnant and was forced to marry her rapist. This is legal and a major loophole in our laws, it is absolutely worth devoting time to. As a minor you are not allowed to divorce either, it took her years to escape the marriage. https://www.newsweek.com/child-marriage-havens-america-1911325
Why is abortion illegal? Why is the drinking age 21, yet the driving age 15/16, and military service 17? Why can't you file federal taxes without paying some third-party company for it? Why is healthcare so expensive yet as a nation you spend more, per head, on government-funded healthcare than nations with 100% free healthcare?
Republicans, fundamentalists and libertarians are how it stays legal. Men only being comfortable sexing a woman who is too inexperienced to know how bad they are is why it stays legal.
Because religion
Because most teenagers who get married (67%, according to [Unchained at Last](https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/))are 17, and a further 29% are 16. You can argue getting married that young is a really stupid choice, and I’d mostly agree. But is it so stupid that it needs to be illegal? I’m not so sure. Philosophically, I have a hard time with the idea that “my body, my choice” for a pregnant teen old enough to work, drive and drop out of school doesn’t extend to the choice to marry one’s partner. What I’m left with is a pretty dry argument that no one too young to sign a contract should be allowed to legally marry. That’s valid, but it doesn’t get attention the way horror stories about raped 12-year-olds do. If it were up to me, I’d set marriage age at 16 with consent from both a parent and a judge required, and establish that being married made someone a legal adult in terms of the right to file for divorce. But it’s not up to me, so we keep having this fight where one side says “ewwww, pedophilia” and the other side says “my aunt got married at 17 and they’ve been happy for 35 years,” and nobody wants to acknowledge the middle ground.
The creeps that run the country… who also make it so they themselves don’t get taxed
Because the people in charge of the laws are pedophiles. Next question.
This is going to sound harsh but in many parts of the world uneducated women are still seen as a burden to the family. So although forcing your young daughter into marriage is an abhorrent practice some people pretend it's practical. They delude themselves into thinking that they'll be able to have a better household without the daughter and she'll have a better life with that often older guy. In other cases they don't want another mouth to feed and feel less guilt seeing their daughter married than just kicked out. Ultimately though it exists because we don't have living legislation nor do most states offer an easy way for the common person to upend laws. Every state has antiquated laws on the books that a certain group benefits from or aren't enforced. Last thing I'll say is that some people are way too accepting of other cultures. A girl I dated in college had parents who immigrated to the US in the 80s from a south east Asian country. At the age of 12 she was married off to the son of one of their allies. He was in his early 20s. By 13 she was pregnant. Nobody at her school called the cops and they all wrote it off as respecting cultural differences even as she was visibly pregnant in middle school and being picked up by this grown man who was frankly raping her. As western influence and seeing her classmates doing certain things crept in her marriage broke down and eventually they split and the kid went with dad but I think that and other experiences affected her in a bad way. To be 100% clear they were never married in the eyes of the US as they never signed court papers. In another situation where a junkie "married" year old daughter off to a John in that case they too didn't sign paper work. That one didn't come to an end until at 16 he took her down to make her legally his wife and someone at the court house pulled her and her mom aside.
There is a weird belief in a bunch of American Christian sects that if a young unwed mother gets pregnant and marries, she is absolved of sin. That out of wedlock sex is sinful, but if they marry, it's then okay. It's a really weird jump of logic that makes absolutely no sense at all. That is why so many, many states fight to keep marriages at such a low age. I think Kentucky is the lowest at 14. These very odd religions use shame a lot to keep their members in line and keep them cowered enough to continue in the faith. All over the US, people are leaving churches. So, I think, in enough time, we will defeat this. But it's going to take perhaps 100 more years of fighting this very weird belief of shame and magical thinking.
Religion. White Christian Nationalists.
And the ACLU
Well actual children like under the age of 16 aren’t getting married all too often in the US. Instead the majority of the “child marriages” are two teenagers who are expecting a baby and they either decide to get married or the parents force them to get married. Not saying it’s right but I can understand the point. Of course there are some actual horrifying child marriages going on that involve a teen and an adult man but these are usually extreme fringe religious groups
over 200,000 children under the age of 16 have been married in the US in the past 10 years and more than 50% of them were married to a significantly older partner. The source is [unchainedatlast.org](http://unchainedatlast.org)
Source? That isn't consistent with the data I've seen, and it certainly skips right over the most egregious cases that have been publicized. According to unchained at last, on average You're looking at a 16-17 f wed to a 20-21 m, and intentional or not that's a tidy little way to circumvent statutory rape.
Religion is often involved when a child is married to an adult man. The politicians are often either a member of the religion or cannot get elected without support from members.
I think it's because conservatives want marriage to be an option if a minor gets pregnant.
Yet California has no age limit at all on marriage. None.
It isn't so that 50 year old rich guys can marry 14 year old girls.... It is so parents can force the 14 and 15 year old kids, that got pregant to not have the kid out of wedlock. It is still not something I support, but it is less nefarious than than many imply.
That might be its intent but what's happening most of the time is that a 50-year-old guy can marry a 14 year old girl.
Maybe that was the intention, but the fact is that a 74 year old man legally "married" a 14 year old girl in Alabama recently. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/200-000-children-married-us-15-years-child-marriage-child-brides-new-jersey-chris-christie-a7830266.html And most child marriages occur between a girl and an adult man. https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/
I don't know, both of those scenarios seem really fucked up and not at all in the interest of the girl who's just being married off
For the same reason abortions are being outlawed again. Many view women as second class citizens who should be married and subservient to a husband. The same people who are now trying to outlaw divorce as they are tired of women trying to escape bad marriages.
Lol at those Conservatives in the comments going around and downvoting every comment that says “Republicans” or “Christians” lmao
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