Yes it would, and is. She is wearing a war bonnet. I think it is more of an issue of stolen valor. Culturally one does not wear this unless they have proven themselves in battle or military service. It’s equivalent to her wearing CMH, Sliver stars, or Purple Hearts.
Whether you think a costume like this is offensive or not is one thing, but there's no "stolen valor" in a case like this. She's not trying to reap any tangible or intangible benefit by duping people into believing she's a war hero. It's no different than her wearing a fireman's outfit, police uniform, or surgeon's scrubs for a photo shoot.
Also seems like it was more of a ceremonial dress for leaders. I know one thing for sure I really wanted one of these when I was a kid and Pam looks great
No, and I don't know who would. Stolen valor is impersonating a service members and trying to pass yourself off as one in public to receive commendations, how is this a real comment
Maybe those who actually earned the medals and have some respect them, and don't appreciate them being used as props for a glamor photoshoot.
No stolen valor, but a tacky (ab)use of the medals.
That isn’t true at all. She isn’t representing that she earned it. That’d be like accusing Tom Hanks of stolen valor because Forrest Gump was awarded the Medal of Honor.
And seeing how the culture would never allow a woman to wear such a thing in the first place it begs the question regarding how much we should care about this cultural appropriation.
Cryprologic linguist actually appropriate can be pronounced Ah-Pro-pree-ate
You're going with the other definition. You see there are primary, secondary, tertiary definitions and not all of them are homophones.
A smarter person could tell I was being facetious.
other countries don't have people regularly pretending to be veterans to get discounts and their ass kissed, though. I mean regularly. Like every mall on a weekend has a person pretending they did military service because it gets them so many ass kisses and discounts.
So you wouldn't understand the concept since this happens in colonized cultures. Can't culturally appropriate if you just stay where you're from.
So your opinion about it couldn't possibly be valid since you've never been on the opressor side or victim side (the victim who has to explain it to their own opressor when they're already tired.)
I do think the whole cultural appropriation this is slightly overplayed, but in certain situations it’s totally valid. Definitely some appropriation going on here, but yeah, whatever I suppose. I feel like it’s mostly white people that are eager to call it out in an effort to seem as far from racist as possible. (Am white)
While I think you may be right, tribal governments and citizens have discussed how and why this form of appropriation is an issue and why it should be stopped. It is not merely a concerned white people issue. Even if there are more white folks who were upset about this than Native folks, it should not matter; it would just be further evidence that these sorts of things are inappropriate. I think that is always going to be the case because there are significantly more white folks in the United States than there are Native folks.
Also, Pam Grier is a badass.
Point of fact - the only reason there are more upset whites than upset Natives is because we are a tiny minority and largely stuck with rural internet access. And we are used to wasting decades to get even the tiniest of acknowledgment. I’m in my 40’s and grew up close enough to DC that I went to Columbus Day protests back in the 80’s/90’s.
I dunno, it depends on the context of this photo, but it looks like a fashion photograph to me. I personally feel like scenarios like that are some of the most valid reasons to call something cultural appropriation. The fashion company is directly, financially profiting off of another, smaller, more marginalized culture’s ideas without compensating or getting permission from them.
Funny how people in the country that is most probably the most racist country in the world get upset if you touch into something they think it’s racist.
Was that actually an accurate representation of a Cheyenne warrior war bonnet she wore and was she identifying as a male Cheyenne warrior as she pranced around in that headdress not culturally appropriating anything because some folks get a pass because they don't have the institutional power to be cultural appropriators?
Right, I am half Ojibwe but have spent my entire life living as a middle class city person, if I went out and started dressing in regalia of any sort it would be out of place.
To be fair, family lore of native ancestry is common where she's from. Before dna testing and online records, you could be honest in saying you have native ancestry, but be wrong.
There are two reasons to claim Native American/ Cherokee ancestry.
The historical one is you're a white-passing octoroon or quintroon making excuses for why you're a tad brown.
The modern one is that you're a dumb white girl trying to sound interesting
Yes, at work I had one coworker tell another coworker that she should not let her daughter get braids because that is cultural appropriation. It was as silly as it sounds.
Your coworker is dumb, surely this should influence how you view all random strangers everywhere.
Edit: *Obviously* this is hyperbole; you should only ever judge people you don't agree with.
We should never lose the ability to evaluate each situation, each person, each idea, on its own merits.
People have a tendency to want some blanket, one-size-fits-all solution. Less thinking required.
I have in Jewish communities because there's a movement among, mostly, Evangelicals to appropriate Jewish traditions like Passover seders, lighting Chanukah candles, etc.
My protestant/probably evangelical family used to do Easter, but we were some very odd homeschoolers.
Actually tried to go yeast-free for the full 40 days or whatever one year, PB&Js with matzo is a bad idea
Seder dinners have been part of lots of Protestant churches for a long long time.
Chanukah kinda makes sense for Evangelicals since they're a death cult whose beliefs revolve around the Temple in Jerusalem.
Christians in general are Jews who bought a shitty DLC.
They have shitty beliefs but it wouldn't really be appropriation.
Interesting to hear of some of these other use cases.
Of course the stigma attached to this sort of activity comes from an invading culture taking up some of the conquered culture as almost a sort of taunt or at least as a way of showing a condescending attitude, oh, we picked up the little styles of the local natives... how quaint.
But cultures also merge on more equal terms, or at least less violent ones.
This is true, but in this case it’s a supersessionist religious group that has historically oppressed the other group and is now taking their rituals and twisting them for their own beliefs.
Yes, and the same dozen or so people were mad about it back then too. Only difference is, they didn't have the internet to use as a microphone to show the world their displeasure.
Cheyenne. But I'm sure that's not why you are being downvoted. It's because you interrupted their cultural resentment circlejerk with a dry fact that makes them look stupid.
Oh the ignorance.
Trust me everyone bitched about a race doing something. I am pretty sure you raise hell about all minority’s doing
No one gets a pass mein kampf but it’s not like anyone gets thrown in jail for this shit either
Not sure what you were trying to say but I do know that wearing this type of headdress, originally seen in the Sioux nation and later adopted by other plains tribes is not okay unless you earned each one of those feathers and were gifted them by the tribe.
Today she would wear this to millions of followers on tik tok with a song about self love while peddling an OF to her faithful. She might also dabble in some extremely questionable politics.
I just described Shanin Blake, a certified don’t Google.
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 1 time.
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People seriously arguing cultural appropiation or some made up shit over the pictures of a vintage big-titty ebony vixen is peak gringo racial sickness.
I think she was probably proud of her Indigenous heritage ( Cheyenne), this is how old-school celebrities celebrated their unity with native Americans, Cher comes to mind too. This was prevalent especially in the 70s when people were starting to recognize their culture and rights in American Society ( Marlon Brando refusing Oscar, the activist Natives that took over Alcatraz, etc) There was none of this politically correct crap that slaps you into acting proper or you'll be sent upstairs without dinner and/ or will be canceled & end up destitute in cultural appropriation societal jail.
You might be looking at the past with rose coloured glasses. Wearing War Bonnets or a headdress without earning it is just as offensive today as it was back then, it’s just there’s more of an effort to understand it now today. Just as cosplaying a Medal of Honor veteran in a photo shoot would be universally condemned.
What the hell are you talking about? That era was NOTORIOUS for appropriation. Hogshit like this and that charlatan Iron Eyes Cody gave you an extremely warped view on what was and wasn't acceptable.
AIM being "en vogue" at the time wasn't permission for celebrities to dress in this minstrel shit. Russel Means wasn't out there celebrating when Cher put on a war bonnet.
There is plenty of cultures these days that seem to have no problem wearing European clothes when they are of not of European descent is that cultural appropriation???
I get quite confused about the whole issue myself
Today, would they call this cultural appropriation?
Yes it would, and is. She is wearing a war bonnet. I think it is more of an issue of stolen valor. Culturally one does not wear this unless they have proven themselves in battle or military service. It’s equivalent to her wearing CMH, Sliver stars, or Purple Hearts.
To be fair, I bet there are lot of cosplayers etc. that wear fake military awards of militaries of foreign countries.
Yes, and no-one outside the US gives a fuck.
Someone get The Village People on the phone.
military is'nt a culture
Whether you think a costume like this is offensive or not is one thing, but there's no "stolen valor" in a case like this. She's not trying to reap any tangible or intangible benefit by duping people into believing she's a war hero. It's no different than her wearing a fireman's outfit, police uniform, or surgeon's scrubs for a photo shoot.
Pam just try on these selection of outfits and I'll see if I'm offended..
THE VILLAGE PEOPLE STOLE VALOR!
EZ
That’s not very jive!
Also seems like it was more of a ceremonial dress for leaders. I know one thing for sure I really wanted one of these when I was a kid and Pam looks great
So you have no problem with her wearing a sexy marine costume with an ample chest of real medals?
No, and I don't know who would. Stolen valor is impersonating a service members and trying to pass yourself off as one in public to receive commendations, how is this a real comment
Maybe those who actually earned the medals and have some respect them, and don't appreciate them being used as props for a glamor photoshoot. No stolen valor, but a tacky (ab)use of the medals.
No ?
I'm not sure there's any other way she could wear real medals. Anyway, I'd really want to see the photo shoot. To judge for myself and stuff.
She's not trying to pass herself off as a war chief. They were just trying to do a hot photoshoot. And they succeeded.
That isn’t true at all. She isn’t representing that she earned it. That’d be like accusing Tom Hanks of stolen valor because Forrest Gump was awarded the Medal of Honor. And seeing how the culture would never allow a woman to wear such a thing in the first place it begs the question regarding how much we should care about this cultural appropriation.
So these hats were given to people who preformed well in war? Or was it more like a military uniform?
Rubbish, my grandfather brought his title directly from the tribal council , and they made my sister a Indian princess complete with a certificate.
Wait, isn't she an African American wearing Native American custom?
That's my kind of stolen valor! Appropriate away, honey!
... W... What?
Cultural appropriation is appropriate. It's literally in the word.
The other way around
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Inappropriate!
**Mis**appropriation would be inappropriate. But's that's not what the libtards call it.
Did you know words can have multiple forms? Appropriate [v] is different than appropriate [adj] r/confidentlyincorrect
Cryprologic linguist actually appropriate can be pronounced Ah-Pro-pree-ate You're going with the other definition. You see there are primary, secondary, tertiary definitions and not all of them are homophones. A smarter person could tell I was being facetious.
Omg
IKR
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Same guy would be screaming for blood if someone wore a purple heart as a fashion accessory.
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Go back to jerking off about Bitcoin
I prefer to jerk off with your mum
That's nice. Tell her I said hi.
Thanks, I will. Your auntie said she will join us as well.
This is why they shouldn't allow cell phones in primary school.
With?
other countries don't have people regularly pretending to be veterans to get discounts and their ass kissed, though. I mean regularly. Like every mall on a weekend has a person pretending they did military service because it gets them so many ass kisses and discounts.
Maybe the ass kissing and discounts are the problem
Obviously. Sorry. Did you read that comment and think I was supportive of American jingoism?
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I am from the Balcans mate. We never colonised anyone
So you wouldn't understand the concept since this happens in colonized cultures. Can't culturally appropriate if you just stay where you're from. So your opinion about it couldn't possibly be valid since you've never been on the opressor side or victim side (the victim who has to explain it to their own opressor when they're already tired.)
I do think the whole cultural appropriation this is slightly overplayed, but in certain situations it’s totally valid. Definitely some appropriation going on here, but yeah, whatever I suppose. I feel like it’s mostly white people that are eager to call it out in an effort to seem as far from racist as possible. (Am white)
Well I'm Navajo and I also think it's dumb as hell, and welcome anyone who recognizes that.
While I think you may be right, tribal governments and citizens have discussed how and why this form of appropriation is an issue and why it should be stopped. It is not merely a concerned white people issue. Even if there are more white folks who were upset about this than Native folks, it should not matter; it would just be further evidence that these sorts of things are inappropriate. I think that is always going to be the case because there are significantly more white folks in the United States than there are Native folks. Also, Pam Grier is a badass.
Point of fact - the only reason there are more upset whites than upset Natives is because we are a tiny minority and largely stuck with rural internet access. And we are used to wasting decades to get even the tiniest of acknowledgment. I’m in my 40’s and grew up close enough to DC that I went to Columbus Day protests back in the 80’s/90’s.
John Fugelsang hosts two native American scholars on his show weekly. It's cool to hear their perspectives.
I dunno, it depends on the context of this photo, but it looks like a fashion photograph to me. I personally feel like scenarios like that are some of the most valid reasons to call something cultural appropriation. The fashion company is directly, financially profiting off of another, smaller, more marginalized culture’s ideas without compensating or getting permission from them.
Damn, bro. How'd you get so cool?
Funny how people in the country that is most probably the most racist country in the world get upset if you touch into something they think it’s racist.
Just because you don't have a heritage doesn't mean others do not.
Which way is this directed ? To Pam Grier?
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But did she earn the war bonnet?
Only men could earn it. Your move.
Was that actually an accurate representation of a Cheyenne warrior war bonnet she wore and was she identifying as a male Cheyenne warrior as she pranced around in that headdress not culturally appropriating anything because some folks get a pass because they don't have the institutional power to be cultural appropriators?
1. It appears to be 2. Doubtful 3. Disturbingly phrased
No one who was actually informed about their Cheyenne heritage would be caught dead in this minstrel crap.
Doesn't really make this entirely appropriate
Yeah that’s true, I wouldn’t care about people whinging either way.
Is she a member of the tribe?
Right, I am half Ojibwe but have spent my entire life living as a middle class city person, if I went out and started dressing in regalia of any sort it would be out of place.
Noted, I'll just make a mock medal of honor since I have distant ancestry in America.
*Elizabeth Warren has entered the chat..*
To be fair, family lore of native ancestry is common where she's from. Before dna testing and online records, you could be honest in saying you have native ancestry, but be wrong.
She’s not an enrolled member of Cherokee Nation. Therefore, she’s not Cherokee, despite her family lore.
There are two reasons to claim Native American/ Cherokee ancestry. The historical one is you're a white-passing octoroon or quintroon making excuses for why you're a tad brown. The modern one is that you're a dumb white girl trying to sound interesting
Its ok. She's a hot black woman /s
This but unironically.
SMFH. I can see this as a fb post today if this was just coming out.
Are you assuming her gender?
Dude shut up hahahahaha
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
Part Native American
Curious, have you ever heard the phrase in an actual real-life conversation, not just on the internet or in a youtube video or whatever?
Yes, at work I had one coworker tell another coworker that she should not let her daughter get braids because that is cultural appropriation. It was as silly as it sounds.
Your coworker is dumb, surely this should influence how you view all random strangers everywhere. Edit: *Obviously* this is hyperbole; you should only ever judge people you don't agree with.
We should never lose the ability to evaluate each situation, each person, each idea, on its own merits. People have a tendency to want some blanket, one-size-fits-all solution. Less thinking required.
Well once we've evaluated the idea there's really no reason to waste effort on the people who repeat it
I have in Jewish communities because there's a movement among, mostly, Evangelicals to appropriate Jewish traditions like Passover seders, lighting Chanukah candles, etc.
Take the latkes, leave the brises.
My protestant/probably evangelical family used to do Easter, but we were some very odd homeschoolers. Actually tried to go yeast-free for the full 40 days or whatever one year, PB&Js with matzo is a bad idea
Wouldn't Easter make sense for a Protestant family? Matzah PB&Js are a Pesach staple for my wife!
Seder dinners have been part of lots of Protestant churches for a long long time. Chanukah kinda makes sense for Evangelicals since they're a death cult whose beliefs revolve around the Temple in Jerusalem. Christians in general are Jews who bought a shitty DLC. They have shitty beliefs but it wouldn't really be appropriation.
Well then they’ve been appropriating Seders for a long time I guess Christians are very much *not* Jews
> Christians in general are Jews who bought a shitty DLC. Too funny, as a sometimes Lutheran.
Interesting to hear of some of these other use cases. Of course the stigma attached to this sort of activity comes from an invading culture taking up some of the conquered culture as almost a sort of taunt or at least as a way of showing a condescending attitude, oh, we picked up the little styles of the local natives... how quaint. But cultures also merge on more equal terms, or at least less violent ones.
This is true, but in this case it’s a supersessionist religious group that has historically oppressed the other group and is now taking their rituals and twisting them for their own beliefs.
Not familiar, but that's why I added "at least less violent ones." To be sure I wasn't misrepresenting what's going on.
Who cares, anybody can wear it. Looks cool.
I remember playing cowboys and Indians as a kid. Certainly can’t do that anymore.
Check out “Mardi Gras Indians,” black people honoring the Native Americans that helped their ancestors escape slavery.
Perhaps, however, she didn't genocide their people and colonize their land. Ut oh not CRT!
Yes, and the same dozen or so people were mad about it back then too. Only difference is, they didn't have the internet to use as a microphone to show the world their displeasure.
Nope shes got cheyenne indian in her.
Lucky Cheyenne Indian
Is she a member of the tribe?
If she wants some Smitty in her, have her drop by 🤣
Yes.
No they wouldn't because she is part Native American.
No because she has Cherokee ethnicity.
Cheyenne. But I'm sure that's not why you are being downvoted. It's because you interrupted their cultural resentment circlejerk with a dry fact that makes them look stupid.
She’s black. She gets a pass for sure
She is part Native American Now what???
Double pass
Oh the ignorance. Trust me everyone bitched about a race doing something. I am pretty sure you raise hell about all minority’s doing No one gets a pass mein kampf but it’s not like anyone gets thrown in jail for this shit either
Not sure what you were trying to say but I do know that wearing this type of headdress, originally seen in the Sioux nation and later adopted by other plains tribes is not okay unless you earned each one of those feathers and were gifted them by the tribe.
Funny thing is. No one was outraged at the time. Maybe you can start a campaign to get her to apologize.
Oh I don’t care at all.
Today she would wear this to millions of followers on tik tok with a song about self love while peddling an OF to her faithful. She might also dabble in some extremely questionable politics. I just described Shanin Blake, a certified don’t Google.
She's mixed with Native American
Pam's mother is part Cheyenne
Smokeshow
That’s the word for that beautiful lady
Always has been
I thought she was sexiest while playing Jackie Brown. Oh My!
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It was first posted in the 80’s
Watched Jacky Brown again just today.
I wonder if she was already listening to the Delfonics.
Jackie Brown!
i mean if you know you know.... she has ALWAYS been fine!!
I know this is wrong, but she was always so right.
Goddess level
Best compliment I ever got from another woman was when one of our African American techs told me that I was “the white Pam Grier”. Best. Day. Ever.
Now, let's see her sing YMCA.
She is so fucking cool
People seriously arguing cultural appropiation or some made up shit over the pictures of a vintage big-titty ebony vixen is peak gringo racial sickness.
This was posted just yesterday in r/1980’s
Now that's epic
Pam Grier is Cheyenne on her mother's side.
I think she was probably proud of her Indigenous heritage ( Cheyenne), this is how old-school celebrities celebrated their unity with native Americans, Cher comes to mind too. This was prevalent especially in the 70s when people were starting to recognize their culture and rights in American Society ( Marlon Brando refusing Oscar, the activist Natives that took over Alcatraz, etc) There was none of this politically correct crap that slaps you into acting proper or you'll be sent upstairs without dinner and/ or will be canceled & end up destitute in cultural appropriation societal jail.
You might be looking at the past with rose coloured glasses. Wearing War Bonnets or a headdress without earning it is just as offensive today as it was back then, it’s just there’s more of an effort to understand it now today. Just as cosplaying a Medal of Honor veteran in a photo shoot would be universally condemned.
You're funny.
What the hell are you talking about? That era was NOTORIOUS for appropriation. Hogshit like this and that charlatan Iron Eyes Cody gave you an extremely warped view on what was and wasn't acceptable. AIM being "en vogue" at the time wasn't permission for celebrities to dress in this minstrel shit. Russel Means wasn't out there celebrating when Cher put on a war bonnet.
Ooofft
Fucking gorgeous!!!
She's so awesome.
Smoking
Would x2
Would happily call her Chief
She’d get cancelled for it now
What is the purpose of cancelling people?
You’d have to ask the people who do it
Damn
She was always so stunning
OG Goddess
Foxy Brown > Jackie Brown
Wow!
The GOAT
Excuse me. I’ll uh… be right back
Hey buddy there's a line!!! Lol
Richard Pryor’s hard cocaine dick
lol stolen culture. Some people just want to fight any kind of war.
Yo..Yo..Ma…
There is plenty of cultures these days that seem to have no problem wearing European clothes when they are of not of European descent is that cultural appropriation??? I get quite confused about the whole issue myself
Problematic boner alert
Hi. How. Are. You. Hi. How. Are. You. Hi. How. Are. You.
Cultural appropriation......... back then it was probably just a fashion shoot.. no harm meant
If she was white, people would be protesting and looting.
No one in the 80s cared about “cultural appropriation” Lol We weren’t overly sensitive and offended by everything.
Back then people were afraid of gays and rock music so yeah...
As if one can't tell that you weren't actually there 🤣
I was mate.
Lol, sure you were. 🙄
Princess Cause-A-Chubby
Not cool. She should not be disrespecting natives by mocking their sacred traditions.
Mocking typically means making fun of. How is she mocking or disrespecting traditions?
Is she a war chief? No she is not. She is mocking something she has no right to wear. Typical ignorant white/black American attitude.
She's not pretending to be a war chief you putz. She's showing how amazing the outfit looks. Context and intent matter.
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https://i.redd.it/y9xlpe4ay5ad1.gif
It satire. Christ, dumbasses on here
This is too tasteless to be cool.
So Pam Grier is a racist
"Let's cover up 2 of the things Pam wants to look at Pam for, okay?"
I’m offended!!!!!!!!🫨