Garp definitely deserves blame too, but Sengoku WAS the one who stepped in to stop him trying to avenge Ace by fighting Akainu.
Though honestly the whole time Garp had plenty of time to help Ace just by bullying the others to get his way and he just sat there.
This annoys me but I kind of get it. Garp accepted Ace being sentenced to death, but it wasn't until it actually happened that he realized it wasn't right, so he flips out. I do think if he really wanted revenge though, he could have freed himself from Sengoku.
I think he initially came to terms with it as something he couldn't change, but when Luffy showed up to save Ace and Sengoku's calculated plan was going off-rails, Garp started to believe that Ace actually had a chance to survive. It would explain why he gets so upset with Akainu despite understanding Ace was supposed to be executed. He watched his grandkids pull-off a miracle, and right when he thought things were going be alright, he see's that hope get snuffed out.
He is my favorite character. I feel like he is the “uncle irho” of the one piece world. And knowing what power he has after time skip, during marine ford he would have had a little more umph left in his tank(2 years is a long time for old people lol)…..meaning he could have easily put some work on the then current admirals and freed Ace
But he would have “sinned” and probally be hunted or made example of by the nobles and at the age Garp was in, makes the situation more complicated.
I really hope Garp does some work before he dies so we can imagine what prime Garp was like being rival of Rodger. (Flashbacks can’t come soon enough lol)
There's no way Garp is going out like that, let's be real. We thought Saul was dead from the same move, but he's been living his best life on Elbaf all this time.
There's also the fact that it's different having Ace die like his father, executed by marine polearms for his crimes; and having him get murdered trying to save Luffy
Yea he stopped him from avenging him in that moment, I don’t think it really holds. He had every minute before then to SAVE his grandson and every day AFTER to avenge him. Garp is a real man he wouldn’t hate his best friend for stopping his revenge in the moment. If he wanted akainu he would go for him any day after marineford. If he wanted to save his grandson well he should have sengoku has nothing to do with that
The issue is if Garp did help, it would kinda fuck with Ace’s reputation, and I think a lot of people ignore that
Like Luffy saved Ace. Had Ace not turned around to defend White Beard’s honor, he would be alive. Ace didn’t die because he was caught, he died because he lost a battle he chose to fight. Clearly reputation maters more than life to Ace. Ace’s death is honorable because he fell defending the title of his true father
But imagine if Ace, after being revealed to be the son of Gold Roger, now suddenly had Garp bailing him out of his trouble just because he’s the hero of the marines. That’s the One Piece equivalent of a Nepo Baby, someone who can get away with breaking the law because the marines won’t target them. Having Garp bail Ace out would (in his mind) put him on the same level as a Celestial Dragon (someone who gets because of who they are, not because of what they can do)
They even have a whole discussion about this, how Ace is his own man, chose his own battles, and has to accept the outcomes of his own choices. Part of being a pirate is accepting the risk. If Ace got bailed out of the risk, he simply wouldn’t be a pirate
I'm not saying that Garp doesn't have his own share of blame for his inaction all the way till the end, I'm just saying that Sengoku stopped him from trying to attack Akainu after Akainu killed Ace.
100% Garp could've tried harder way earlier to help Ace escape by doing anything other than just taking a dive for Luffy.
What is your problem ever since ace was a kid Garp has been telling him to not be a pirate repeatedly and ace didn't listen so how is it Garp's fault why is suddenly Garp a villain why is he the bad guy
Tbh I don’t think Garp so much regrets not saving Ace but more so regrets the way he went out. I think he wanted Ace to go out gracefully and almost with some “respect” similarly to his farther Rogers. Instead he got a donut to the stomach.
Uh....yeah? Sengoku squared up with Blackbeard who came to Marine Ford with barely a scratch, and made him flee, only him and Whitebeard put a dent into him.
Sorry but Sengoku isnt as strong as Garp, the source for this is the portrayal of both in the manga. Every single one of Sengoku's feats and proof of strength includes Garp, while many of Garp's feats and proof of strength do not include Sengoku at all.
Sengoku is crazy strong dont get me wrong, but if Garp didnt want to be held back Sengoku would not have been able to.
Fallacy alert 🚨
Sengoku and Garp are always portrayed as equals. One is given more screentime and history because they are related to the main character. Shark attacks ≠ ice cream sales etc
Well no.
Garp and Sengoku are from the same generation but it is an objective fact that every single one of the things that tells you Sengoku is strong also has Garp included in it. Meanwhile Garp has many stories that have nothing to do with "*main character*" that do not include Sengoku.
They are certainly portrayed as the top of the navy, there is no doubt in that. However, again....EVERY. SINGLE. TIME there is a Sengoku hype story, Garp is involved. But its not the case the other way around which is why although they are close in strength Garp is certainly stronger.
- Sengoku was an Admiral then Fleet Admiral, the literal top of the Navy's power <-----> Garp was offered the Admiral position many times and we know why he's said no.
- Roger mentioned that if the Navy wants to give him a real fight they should send Sengoku <-----> In that same sentence he also mentions Garp.
- Sengoku brought in the legendary Golden Lion Shiki to Impel Down.....<-----> .....With Garp right there with him to help.
**Meanwhile**;
- Garp trained by destroying mountains to cave in Don Chinjao's drill head, a legendary pirate at the time <-----> No mention of Sengoku.
- Garp gained his initial reputation by taking down Rocks a captain so strong he had 3 Yonkos-to-be on his crew plus many other legends. <-----> No mention of Sengoku.
- Roger at the end of his journey mentions that Garp and him have nearly killed each other countless times over the years, so much so that its created a bond as strong as that of his own crew. <-----> No mention of Sengoku.
If you want to say I'm wrong then I'm open to it but please bring facts from the series.
Knowing his character, why would you assume that he *doesn't* blame himself? Even so, Garp is hardly the only one at fault for Ace's death. Ace wasn't simply executed for being a pirate, or for being a high ranking member of Whitebeard's crew. He was executed, primarily, because he was Roger's son. Rather, his charge of execution was for being Roger's son, but his execution failed.
Teach captured him and traded him in. Sengoku orchestrated the attempted execution. Sakazuki killed him. Magellan oversaw his torture and mistreatment, if not in person, then through his subordinates.
Garp shares some blame, but he doesn't share the majority of it by any means - if anything, it could already be viewed that he committed treason by allowing Luffy to pass him and thereby free Ace, and he attempted treason by going after Sakazuki until Sengoku restrained him.
Garp shares some blame by being one of the top enforcement officers in the Marines and allowing the execution to go through, but it's utterly nonsensical to suggest that he has no one to blame but himself.
Not like Garp had any say in "allowing" the execution.
I do think there should have been more public PR blowout from their framing it as "executed for being Roger's son".
Exactly. It wasn't a good position for Garp to be in. He lost a lot no matter which path he chose, and he didn't have any say in the matter overall. His options were either "allow him to be executed quickly" or "revolt during a war with an existential threat to just about everyone else that I know and care for".
His "blame", as it was, was simply in choosing to stand with the Marines, knowing that Ace had made his own choices in life, despite his own demands and protests and begging.
I'm certain that he blames himself for not being able to save Ace, but I think he also understands that there was nothing that he could have done. Ace could have remained a civilian, become a productive member of society, and started a family - and his children would have been executed right there alongside him. He could have been a marine, but even if he grew into and exceeded Garp's shoes, it likely would have only saved him from a public execution, but not from a quiet assassination disguised as an early retirement.
There should definitely have been a public response to Ace being forced to bear the sins of his father, even if it's not something that we necessarily needed to see, but I do think that's the kind of thing that leads to an increase in piracy and revolutionaries.
While what you said is true, it is kinda easier for his conscience to just project and blame someone else than to take accountability for your actions (or the lack thereof) 😆
I’m not sure if he does but at the very least, I do know it would help him sleep better than night if he did (not speaking from experience btw)
That's not true. Sengoku stopped Garp from fighting Akainu. However, by that time, Ace's death was already inevitable as Akainu already pierced a hole through his chest.
Sengoku stopped Garp from getting revenge for Ace's death, not from saving Ace.
Garp literally tells Sengoku to hold him back. Not only does that require a ton of strength, but a massive friendship for Garp to not actually hurt Sengoku while attempting to attack Akainu.
I feel bad for Luffy but I always saw it as more his fault than Ace's. If you delete the scene where Ace goes back to up Akainu because of the taunting, Luffy still ends up dropping the Vivre card and leaving himself open to Akainu, and thus Ace dies regardless.
But if Ace kept fucking running the vivre card should fall in the other way giving some space for something else than getting donuted to save Luffy, anyways Ace would never let Blackbeard to take WB fruit so he wasnt getting out of Marineford
It falling the other way doesn't change the fact that Luffy would still drop to his knees and get attacked by Akainu, who had a vendetta against Luffy in particular as the son of dragon.
If you delete the scene with Ace going back to Akainu Luffy and Ace would have fled a way longer distance before Luffy collapsed. He also wouldn't care about losing the vivre card at all because his brother is already by his side. Ace could be the one that evacuates Luffy from the battlefield instead of Jimbe which frees the warlord from this duty. Akainu could even die in this scenario because he is now way deeper behind the enemy lines without any backup while more of its enemies are free to do what they want.
What you're writing is headcanon lol, Akainu did go further into enemy lines when he blasted right through Jinbei and Luffy. Luffy still would have dropped the Vivre card and gone after it since he wasn't thinking clearly and was exhausted.
When Akainu goes further into enemy lines later the situation had already massively changed to his advantage. Ace and Whitebeard are dead now, their followers have lost their will to fight and Jimbe is completely occupied with rescuing Luffy. And I highly doubt that Luffy's instinct would have been to grab the Vivre Card when he could have grabbed the real thing in this moment.
But of course all I have wrote is headcanon because I already answered on headcanon.
Except no.
- Ace already got taunted by Akainu before Luffy fell to his knees and stopped trying to escape.
- Ace already got overpowered by Akainu before Luffy fell to his knees and since he wouldnt have run away he would have gotten killed.
Ace would have died regardless. Theres nothing wrong with being proud and theres nothing wrong with fighting to the death for what you believe in but Ace lacked the discernment to realize the real goal in this situation, allowed himself to get taunted and ended up dead.
??? I didn't disagree that Ace wouldn't die. I'm saying that Ace would have died even if he didn't get taunted, because Luffy would have dropped to his knees regardless. Ace died because of Luffy, even in a long term context if Luffy hadn't stopped Croc, BB would have never handed Ace over to the WG.
About the last statement, Ace eventually would have found Blackbeard, and the things would have occured in the same way; or if Blackbeard already took another supernova or anything better by the moment Ace had found him, they probably would have killed him right there. Ace simply was the stubborn to blame at, he was not enough trained.
I'm saying if Croc won and remained a warlord, BB never would have gone after Luffy, and so if Ace and BB did meet up, it would be in a completely different scenario. Ace didn't go to attack BB until after BB mentioned he was going after Luffy, so the situation might not have even ended in conflict. We don't even know for sure if the marines Ace got BB's location from in the cover story would have BB's location if he wasn't vying for warlord.
You're wrong.
>so if Ace and BB did meet up, it would be in a completely different scenario. Ace didn't go to attack BB until after BB mentioned he was going after Luffy, so the situation might not have even ended in conflict
The only way you can truly believe this is if you're not actually reading the story.
Ace went after BB to kill him for betraying WB, thats the entire reason he was even there to begin with. The whole point of him tracking BB was because he felt accountable since BB was in the 2nd division and wanted to kill him for what he did.
NONE of this has anything to do with Luffy. Ace even says in their conversation that mentioning Luffy is "*another reason why they'll fight*"
Why tf do you think Ace went after BB if not for conflict? To have a conversation? Jesus Christ. They would have fought on Banaro Island no matter what even if BB had never mentioned Luffy, because Ace was there to kill him and would have never backed down/let him go or accepted his invitation. That fight was a guarantee the moment Ace left WB's ship.
Ace's death was not on Luffy at all.
Never "wanted" to save Ace? What are you talking about?
There's a significant difference between despising your duty but upholding it anyway, and not wanting to save his grandson.
That's a remarkably poor take on Garp's role in that arc, and of his character overall. He was quite literally held between two impossible choices - allow his grandson to die, or effectively destroy the morale of Marines by revolting, even as a force viewed as an existential threat came upon them.
*"Garp never wanted to save Ace"*. That's nasty.
That's not a matter of opinion though, the story makes it very clear that Garp deeply wanted to save Ace, he just couldn't do it in his position without causing many more deaths
I agree and disagree with both of you. First, garp did want to save ace but both ace and garp understood they each chose their own path in life. When garp visited Ace in prison and he was crying asking ace what he should do, you damn well better know that if ace said "save me Grandpa" garp would've thrown everything away to save his boy. But he didn't so they both accepted that the life they chose led them to here and it's up to white beard/Luffy to save ace not garp. I actually believe this would have resulted in far less deaths than him not intervening.
Additionally Akainu would've killed garp at Marine Ford if they fought. BB refused a 10v1 against akainu. Garp was no where near his prime and all it takes is one shot from Akainu to receive life altering damage.
I didn't say he would get one shotted. I said any shot from Akainu does life altering damage. Garp would keep fighting but we've seen akaniu land hits on ace, white beard, Kuma and the scars/loss of leg kuzan suffered from his fight. Anytime akainu lands a hit you end up with life altering injuries like loss of limbs, loss of parts of your body and scars. That's how dangerous and powerful his attacks are.
I believe the power of galaxy impact is on par with the punches WB landed on him with his devil fruit, so I don't think a single hit would KO Akainu additionally if we look kuzan was able to trade punches with garp and if garp traded punches with akainu he would lose half his face
You are right, it is not a matter of opinion. I just said that because I have no interest in discussing about it. In my world if you want something you fight for it to happen. And Garp definitely could make it happen, he just chose not to. He had other priorities, which is fine. It was his choice. The important thing is that Sengoku had nothing to do with it 🤣 (which is what the original commenter said)
Opinions can be wrong. The fact remains that Ace chose that life and had no regrets because he died knowing that people loved him. Garp already did his part to raise him and try and save him from becoming Roger's second coming. He respected his son's and grandsons' life choices even if he doesn't agree with them. He wanted Ace to be saved but he couldn't. Why do you think he looked for someone to beat him up after the war?
Thinking that Garp can only choose between saving and not saving Ace is such a narrow-minded POV. He couldn't saved Ace so he then hoped that Luffy would without compromising his position and reputation as the inspiration for all good Marines. He chose the path that allowed Ace to live freely even until his death. Characters need not to be such binary things who can only think of "yes" or "no".
Mente cerrada es no aceptar opiniones ajenas. Si queres decir q Garp "quería" salvar a Ace, decilo. La realidad es que evidentemente habia algo que Garp quería más, o le interesaba más. Por eso no lo salvó. Lo demás es cuento
Yeah, you can have your own opinion. It's *my* opinion that *your* opinion, in this matter, is nasty and ill-considered. You must have some malicious view of Garp if you think that he *wanted* Ace to die, because that's what *not wanting* to save him comes down to.
He let Luffy by-pass him to save Ace. He didn’t do anything himself but he was clearly holding back.
He wanted Ace saved but was okay/hoping Luffy would do it.
I think it makes sense. Sengoku is one of the major figures that lead to Ace’s execution, Garp’s own adopted grandson.
In a void I’d imagine Garp agrees with Sengoku’s actions in executing a notorious pirate. But Garp was connected to Ace causing complications.
Sidebar, why do we keep calling Ace Garp’s “adopted grandson?” Like I get Garp is a little old but by every logical interpretation that’s straight up his adopted kid. He was given a baby and told “please raise him for me”.
I think it’s because Garp didn’t raise Ace that much on his own. Dadan (i think that’s her name) is way more of Ace’s primary care giver/guardian, so she is similar to a mother for Ace. Garp is in Ace’s life, but not nearly as often, and given his age, he just fits the role of Grandpa better than a dad
Also if Luffy and Ace are brothers, it wouldn’t make sense of one of them to call Garp Grandpa and the other Dad, because that would technically make Ace Luffy’s adopted uncle.
Technically, yea you could consider them brothers since Shank’s chosen father is clearly Roger
But if I had to put a familiar label on them, I’d say it’s more like an adult and Teenager cousins. I don’t think the two are as close as brothers, but I do think there’s a sense of unconditional admiration for each other, through Luffy. Shanks would definitely risk himself for Ace (Going to Marineford) and Ace would likely risk himself for Shanks if possible since Shanks is Luffy’s idol.
I don’t think Shanks is as close to Ace as Luffy is, but I could see them having a sort of familiar bond through Luffy mostly since Ace didn’t really like Roger
And I think more than anything else what stopped Garp from saving Ace was Sengoku, they are long time friends and brothers in arms, probably saved each other’s life so many times, if someone else was Fleet Admiral at that moment I think Garp would rebel and save Ace.
Even though I don’t blame Garp at all, Ace was an adult who made his choices, Garp tried all their youth to stop them from being pirates.
And also Garp is one of those marines that really help people and not just do Government work, as stated by Sengoku he would have been executed many times before if he was not hero of the marines due to openly disrespecting CD
I mean, we did see them hang out together in Film Z and Stampede, but those are considered non-canon.
Honestly, kinda ashamed we don't see them together a whole lot. I guess the Marineford War did some damage in their relationship they aren't willing to hung out as they used to.
I'm rather sad that we don't see them together. Like in pre time skip you can see that they are best buddies with Sengoku taking Garps Crackers away to enrage him. I would love to see Sengoku in Action maybe saving Garp from Hachinosu
There are several faults with this theory that makes it unlikely.
1. Garp doesnt mince words. If he felt like that he would just say it straight out whlle picking his nose.
2. What would cause such an extreme and sudden change? We were shown very clearly in the Dadan scene that the one Garp blames is himself
3. It was established in Marineford that Sengoku has a brilliant mind, there is no way he wouldnt figure it out by now. He might feel guilt about it and go about it as if nothing is wrong, but combine all 3 and you get no reason to suspect Garp is no longer a friend to Sengoku.
What I think is the actual reason for what you observe is simple, Oda have cut back heavily on anything that doesnt advance the plot, he might have stated worrying about Berserking One Piece.
I doubt Garp is a SWORD
He is not the type, he is the type who ignore orders from Marine HQ and knows HQ can't do shit about it, he doesn't need to bother for SWORD formalities
I see him as the inspiration for SWORD. I think everybody knows he sent his resignation letter to Kong, and Kong just left him to his devices.
So many other people with similar mindset also put their resignation, but Kong and the marine gave them a similar deal, you can do whatever you want, but once you crossed the line/do what we don't like, we just say you have resigned.
I see him as a member because Koby is. He sees Koby as the future of the marines. Possibly taking what he built to another level with the others in the group.
Of course there’s no proof, but that is my current thoughts
Garp's the opposite of a SWORD member. He retains his commission because he's a useful propaganda token for the marines, but he doesn't seem to have any official duties. SWORD members resign their commissions but continue to act in the marines' interests (sometimes within the chain of command, sometimes as infiltrators) so that the marines can deny their involvement if they get captured or do anything shady. Put another way, post-timeskip Garp is a marine in name only, while SWORD members are marines in all but name.
It seems you misunderstood. Sword members retain their rank but have agreed to resign. Garp was at reverie recently with official duties. Coby was not rescued because he's sword and it seems the same is true for Garp. They wanted him to teach the next generation so he did that one last time.
They don't agree to resign, they *have* resigned. Garp and Sengoku are explicitly asked to stay on as instructors because having their two most famous members quit right after Marineford would be a PR disaster. Their situation is unique (so far) because of their fame. It isn't clear how the marines will respond to Garp's capture, especially since they're currently getting one hell of a black eye from his grandson on Egghead.
I don't see why not. X Drake, Prince Grus and Kujaku are all Rear Admirals. Garp is only one position higher and other Marines can't boss him around. Plus he did resign from the role, Kong just let Garp retain his rank.
I don't think it's that they don't hang out. I think Oda just doesn't really show it too often since there's way to much stuff going on as is. I'm certain the two of them are probably still good friends.
Though don't get me wrong, I do hope Sengoku is the one to come save and or help Garp. I definitely want to see his devil fruit in full force.
Yeah oda is occupied with other characters atm, however i do want this to be true.
Sengoku goes to save garp from the blackbeard pirates and garp gives him the cold shoulder, after all they've been through fighting along side each other for decades, Garp no longer sees sengoku as a friend but more of the man who stopped him from saving ace.
Ngl would straight up break my heart.
That would be heart wrenching. I do kind of want them to bring it up in a sense that maybe Garp does feel maybe a slight animosity towards Sengoku at some points.
However, I think it should be done tastefully because while understandably it would no doubt leave a bad taste in Garp's mouth that this happened, at the end of the day Sengoku was also only doing his job as well and even Garp had to acknowledge that somewhere too.
I mean the fact that Sengoku was looking for him about rice crackers implies that there relationship wasn't too strained if he thought he could still hang out with him so casually. That said, it sounds like Garp just bolted without telling him to avoid Sengoku and Tsuru stopping him from rescuing Koby.
It's like they work in the same office so they are usually shown to hang out but now they retire they do their own things. Garp even go back to his hometown when he was off duty and Sengoku was off somewhere else.
Like I dont hangout with my highschool friend much doesnt mean were not good.
Sengoku is kinda in the same camp as Kizaru for me. Complicit in his role. He may have "retired" as Fleet Admiral, but he's not doing anything of his own motivation or to fight the system.
> Sengoku is kinda in the same camp as Kizaru for me.
Well Kizaru is Sengoku's pupil, the way Aokiji is Garp's pupil and Akainu is Tsuru's pupil. Oda has drawn some pretty straight lines down to represent the influence of the dreams of the previous generations on the dreams of the current ones
Counterpoint: If Garp had already been avoiding him for two years, he wouldn't still try to hang out as much. I'm pretty sure this is just a coincidence.
The way I see it, like you mentioned they seem to still hang out but Sengoku seems to be taking this retirement seriously. Sengoku seemed to be a Marine through and through, he probably spent his entire career mentoring and leading people so to him now that he is retired he can finally take off the chains and really relax the way Garp had always been.
Meanwhile, I see Garp as the opposite. Garp was a reluctant teacher if at all while he was active but I think Ace's death and his ultimate failure to get either of his grandsons into the Navy finally cemented his need to raise a successor in the Navy. Now that he knows he was on his way out one way or another he seemed to double down on teaching. That is probably why he took this position he took after his 'retirement', a chance to look over the next generation and maybe find a group who could take on his will once he's gone. Which whether he's a member of SWORD or not it seems like they all revere him deeply.
TLDR; I think they are still friends. But I think while Sengoku is finally free to relax and have a good time. Garp is taking his job probably more seriously than he ever has, at least since Roger was around.
I don't have an opinion on the Sengoku part of that, but I disagree with your Garp assessment.
Garp wasn't a reluctant teacher, he was quite active as a teacher and the only thing he has been shown to be reluctant with is doing what he is told. Out of all the Marines, Garp is known to have the most direct students that he has trained. The obvious ones are Koby and Helmeppo, which he picked himself when he saw that the two had potential. We also know he trained Kuzan, who is the only student he didn't pick himself as Kuzan was the one asking.
Then there's the non-Marines. Both Luffy and Ace were trained by him to become Marines. He was a bit more hands-off with them than the rest, but that's because of the job. And I think it's safe to assume Garp also trained Dragon to some extent, since he did train his grandsons.
That's a lot of teaching and he chose to train all but one of them without being asked. Not very reluctant in my opinion. And about him being more active now seems pretty baseless as well, since we have really seen him do two work things since his so called retirement. He set up a Marine training academy to protect his home town and he went to save Koby. The latter wasn't even a sanctioned mission, he just chose to go and do it. So he's still doing what he has always done, what he wants to do.
Sengoku gave up on helping the future of the Marines because of how corrupt the WG is, and settled on just being an overpaid decoration and Garp didn't like that his friend went that route.
“Sengoku tries to hang out with Garp by finding some new crackers or tea flavors for him to try but he doesn’t want to be friends with him anymore”
It’s almost like he went to save koby. How would Garp hear sengoku. There’s no evidence that Garp was blowing off plans to see sengoku
The reason sengoku didn’t know was because he wasn’t around Garp, Hina knew and told sengoku.
Garp isn’t the type to tell people what he’ll do before he does it. Either you’re right there with him or you don’t know until you hear about it in the news
Nah .. since luffy and garp almost think the same .. they have that forgiving nature .. they're simpleminded, get feelings hurt .. luffy forgave his friends no matter what.. i think garo does too
things would kind of awkward between the two I could see there friendship being strained after what happened at Marineford like I think there not as close as they use to be just work colleagues now . Like every time garp sees Sengoku he would be reminded of what happened
Doesn't the panel of Sengoku asking for Garp to show him a new rice crackers flavour literally disprove this? It's been 2 years Sengoku would know if Garp doesn't want to talk with him by now.
Garp didn't tell Sengoku because he wouldn't want Sengoku to get involved, also because as we saw when Garp talked to Doll, Garp doesn't think about telling anyone what he's gonna do, and Sengoku even tho retired would still scold Garp for attacking Blackbeard.
As for the Ace stuff...Garp knew what he was getting into. Ace was a pirate, it was his choice. I don't think Garp blames Sengoku when he was just doing his job lol.
Based on what? There's nothing suggesting they aren't friends anymore lmao. While non canon the Movies are supervised by Oda and they're seen together multiple times.
Nothing says they're not friends, Sengoku wouldn't want to show Garp a new rice crackers flavour if they weren't 💀
I'm not sure if it is related to the topic, but I believe both Sengoku and Garp are members of the SWORD organisation alongside Kuzan.
I think this panel shows that Garp made a rash decision Sengoku would be against. This situation does, in a way, parallel what happened to Ace. Instead of doing what Sengoku would do, Garp decided to follow his gut feeling this time. It isn't that they aren't friends any longer. Garp just dodged having to deal with Sengoku, who would try to prevent him from leaving for his own sake.
My understanding is that Garp decided to take Koby's place, and Kuzan, another member of SWORD and Garp's disciple, decided to honour his wish.
Knowing Oda, he won't play his cards with such a potent, popular, and hyped character so poorly. Garp is at the moment the Trojan horse there, and, I assume, there is going to be a subplot with him, Law, and other members of SWORD.
I think it can be more a lowkey depression, that makes Garp to be more isolated, and Sengoku has now the supportive role Garp had when he was the stressed as fuck fleet admiral. I see the entire Hachinosu rescue as an attempt to do what he did not for Ace, resembling Whitebeard and this inspiring his sacrifice.
Off topic but I know it’s a common theory that Kong is related to Garp, and I just realized the left side of his face has a scar like Luffy and garp (and dragon has the tatoo there). I hope Oda one day confirms it
Sengoku apparently thinks they're still on good enough terms to banter about cracker flavors and is expecting Garp to be around. He probably sees him but we just haven't seen it because that's not relevant to the story right now.
You are basing this on one panel where garp was not there. Of course they have shared time, otherwise sengoku would not be casually calling garp out to share his cookies xD.
I think that last panel is open to interpretation. If we assume nothing, this looks like them acting completely in character. Garp just left to get Koby since he knew Sengoku would probably give him trouble. Garp doesn't strike me as the type to hold grudges, similar to Luffy.
I think garp may have shared any knowledge he had of the void century(he could have learned from Roger). Sengoku is all garp esque chill now that he's an inspector.
How? This theory is extremely mid.
Oda simply doesn’t have time to draw them together because that’s pointless rn. Also we rarely seen them these days let alone have enough time see them together
This would be a neat convo topic if we see Garp and Kuzan talk in BB's dungeon somewhere, Kuzan asking how Sengoku's been since Kuzan retired and Garp answering with "that makes two of us". Kuzan definitely seems like he regrets being a Marine, so it'd be interesting to see if Garp feels a similar way.
Sengoku did stop Garp from saving Ace. Something in hindsight Garp regrets not stopping.
Garp should def not be blaming anyone but himself lol
Garp definitely deserves blame too, but Sengoku WAS the one who stepped in to stop him trying to avenge Ace by fighting Akainu. Though honestly the whole time Garp had plenty of time to help Ace just by bullying the others to get his way and he just sat there.
This annoys me but I kind of get it. Garp accepted Ace being sentenced to death, but it wasn't until it actually happened that he realized it wasn't right, so he flips out. I do think if he really wanted revenge though, he could have freed himself from Sengoku.
I think he initially came to terms with it as something he couldn't change, but when Luffy showed up to save Ace and Sengoku's calculated plan was going off-rails, Garp started to believe that Ace actually had a chance to survive. It would explain why he gets so upset with Akainu despite understanding Ace was supposed to be executed. He watched his grandkids pull-off a miracle, and right when he thought things were going be alright, he see's that hope get snuffed out.
Good character growth, imo :)
Oh absolutely. Garp is one of the most complex characters in the show and probably my favourite non-SH character.
He is my favorite character. I feel like he is the “uncle irho” of the one piece world. And knowing what power he has after time skip, during marine ford he would have had a little more umph left in his tank(2 years is a long time for old people lol)…..meaning he could have easily put some work on the then current admirals and freed Ace But he would have “sinned” and probally be hunted or made example of by the nobles and at the age Garp was in, makes the situation more complicated. I really hope Garp does some work before he dies so we can imagine what prime Garp was like being rival of Rodger. (Flashbacks can’t come soon enough lol)
That God Valley flashback is going to be fire, and it has to be from Garp's POV because no-one else who was there is alive (that we know of).
There’s Roger’s crew but they’re not gonna randomly decide to spill beans on it
We don't even know if Garp is still alive so...
There's no way Garp is going out like that, let's be real. We thought Saul was dead from the same move, but he's been living his best life on Elbaf all this time.
I always figured he thought Whitebeard would be successful in saving Ace so he showed up to act like he was doing his job.
There's also the fact that it's different having Ace die like his father, executed by marine polearms for his crimes; and having him get murdered trying to save Luffy
Exactly, tbh he doesn’t truly regret it. He was ok with Ace dying, just not ok with how it happened.
Yea he stopped him from avenging him in that moment, I don’t think it really holds. He had every minute before then to SAVE his grandson and every day AFTER to avenge him. Garp is a real man he wouldn’t hate his best friend for stopping his revenge in the moment. If he wanted akainu he would go for him any day after marineford. If he wanted to save his grandson well he should have sengoku has nothing to do with that
The issue is if Garp did help, it would kinda fuck with Ace’s reputation, and I think a lot of people ignore that Like Luffy saved Ace. Had Ace not turned around to defend White Beard’s honor, he would be alive. Ace didn’t die because he was caught, he died because he lost a battle he chose to fight. Clearly reputation maters more than life to Ace. Ace’s death is honorable because he fell defending the title of his true father But imagine if Ace, after being revealed to be the son of Gold Roger, now suddenly had Garp bailing him out of his trouble just because he’s the hero of the marines. That’s the One Piece equivalent of a Nepo Baby, someone who can get away with breaking the law because the marines won’t target them. Having Garp bail Ace out would (in his mind) put him on the same level as a Celestial Dragon (someone who gets because of who they are, not because of what they can do) They even have a whole discussion about this, how Ace is his own man, chose his own battles, and has to accept the outcomes of his own choices. Part of being a pirate is accepting the risk. If Ace got bailed out of the risk, he simply wouldn’t be a pirate
"to stop him trying to avenge Ace by fighting Akainu" aka, Ace was already dead, aka it's Garp's fault and not Sengoku
I'm not saying that Garp doesn't have his own share of blame for his inaction all the way till the end, I'm just saying that Sengoku stopped him from trying to attack Akainu after Akainu killed Ace. 100% Garp could've tried harder way earlier to help Ace escape by doing anything other than just taking a dive for Luffy.
What is your problem ever since ace was a kid Garp has been telling him to not be a pirate repeatedly and ace didn't listen so how is it Garp's fault why is suddenly Garp a villain why is he the bad guy
Tbh I don’t think Garp so much regrets not saving Ace but more so regrets the way he went out. I think he wanted Ace to go out gracefully and almost with some “respect” similarly to his farther Rogers. Instead he got a donut to the stomach.
You talk like as though if Garp didn't want to hold back, Sengoku could have actually held him back.
Uh....yeah? Sengoku squared up with Blackbeard who came to Marine Ford with barely a scratch, and made him flee, only him and Whitebeard put a dent into him.
Sorry but Sengoku isnt as strong as Garp, the source for this is the portrayal of both in the manga. Every single one of Sengoku's feats and proof of strength includes Garp, while many of Garp's feats and proof of strength do not include Sengoku at all. Sengoku is crazy strong dont get me wrong, but if Garp didnt want to be held back Sengoku would not have been able to.
Fallacy alert 🚨 Sengoku and Garp are always portrayed as equals. One is given more screentime and history because they are related to the main character. Shark attacks ≠ ice cream sales etc
Well no. Garp and Sengoku are from the same generation but it is an objective fact that every single one of the things that tells you Sengoku is strong also has Garp included in it. Meanwhile Garp has many stories that have nothing to do with "*main character*" that do not include Sengoku. They are certainly portrayed as the top of the navy, there is no doubt in that. However, again....EVERY. SINGLE. TIME there is a Sengoku hype story, Garp is involved. But its not the case the other way around which is why although they are close in strength Garp is certainly stronger. - Sengoku was an Admiral then Fleet Admiral, the literal top of the Navy's power <-----> Garp was offered the Admiral position many times and we know why he's said no. - Roger mentioned that if the Navy wants to give him a real fight they should send Sengoku <-----> In that same sentence he also mentions Garp. - Sengoku brought in the legendary Golden Lion Shiki to Impel Down.....<-----> .....With Garp right there with him to help. **Meanwhile**; - Garp trained by destroying mountains to cave in Don Chinjao's drill head, a legendary pirate at the time <-----> No mention of Sengoku. - Garp gained his initial reputation by taking down Rocks a captain so strong he had 3 Yonkos-to-be on his crew plus many other legends. <-----> No mention of Sengoku. - Roger at the end of his journey mentions that Garp and him have nearly killed each other countless times over the years, so much so that its created a bond as strong as that of his own crew. <-----> No mention of Sengoku. If you want to say I'm wrong then I'm open to it but please bring facts from the series.
Didn't Garp plead to Sengoku to keep holding him down or else he was gonna kill Akainu?
Knowing his character, why would you assume that he *doesn't* blame himself? Even so, Garp is hardly the only one at fault for Ace's death. Ace wasn't simply executed for being a pirate, or for being a high ranking member of Whitebeard's crew. He was executed, primarily, because he was Roger's son. Rather, his charge of execution was for being Roger's son, but his execution failed. Teach captured him and traded him in. Sengoku orchestrated the attempted execution. Sakazuki killed him. Magellan oversaw his torture and mistreatment, if not in person, then through his subordinates. Garp shares some blame, but he doesn't share the majority of it by any means - if anything, it could already be viewed that he committed treason by allowing Luffy to pass him and thereby free Ace, and he attempted treason by going after Sakazuki until Sengoku restrained him. Garp shares some blame by being one of the top enforcement officers in the Marines and allowing the execution to go through, but it's utterly nonsensical to suggest that he has no one to blame but himself.
Not like Garp had any say in "allowing" the execution. I do think there should have been more public PR blowout from their framing it as "executed for being Roger's son".
Exactly. It wasn't a good position for Garp to be in. He lost a lot no matter which path he chose, and he didn't have any say in the matter overall. His options were either "allow him to be executed quickly" or "revolt during a war with an existential threat to just about everyone else that I know and care for". His "blame", as it was, was simply in choosing to stand with the Marines, knowing that Ace had made his own choices in life, despite his own demands and protests and begging. I'm certain that he blames himself for not being able to save Ace, but I think he also understands that there was nothing that he could have done. Ace could have remained a civilian, become a productive member of society, and started a family - and his children would have been executed right there alongside him. He could have been a marine, but even if he grew into and exceeded Garp's shoes, it likely would have only saved him from a public execution, but not from a quiet assassination disguised as an early retirement. There should definitely have been a public response to Ace being forced to bear the sins of his father, even if it's not something that we necessarily needed to see, but I do think that's the kind of thing that leads to an increase in piracy and revolutionaries.
While what you said is true, it is kinda easier for his conscience to just project and blame someone else than to take accountability for your actions (or the lack thereof) 😆 I’m not sure if he does but at the very least, I do know it would help him sleep better than night if he did (not speaking from experience btw)
That's not true. Sengoku stopped Garp from fighting Akainu. However, by that time, Ace's death was already inevitable as Akainu already pierced a hole through his chest. Sengoku stopped Garp from getting revenge for Ace's death, not from saving Ace.
Garp literally tells Sengoku to hold him back. Not only does that require a ton of strength, but a massive friendship for Garp to not actually hurt Sengoku while attempting to attack Akainu.
Not only that he just tell The entire world Ace is Roger son knowing that Ace does not like be called Roger son
Why would sengoku care
It doesn't matter Garp didn't save Ace, nobody could save Ace from himself. He was a dumbass and it got him killed.
People be blaming Ace like it wasn't Luffy who was caught off guard and almost killed...
Ace SUCCESSFULLY escaped. He was on his way OUT of Marineford. Then Akainu literally did a yo mama joke and it triggered him to his doom.
It was still Luffy that was vulnerable to Akainu and needed Aces help no matter how u twist it
Ace still could have flown away fine from Akainu. If Luffy had not dropped to his knees in the middle of a war Ace still could have survived.
I mean poor dude just went through Impel down and Marineford to save Ace
I feel bad for Luffy but I always saw it as more his fault than Ace's. If you delete the scene where Ace goes back to up Akainu because of the taunting, Luffy still ends up dropping the Vivre card and leaving himself open to Akainu, and thus Ace dies regardless.
But if Ace kept fucking running the vivre card should fall in the other way giving some space for something else than getting donuted to save Luffy, anyways Ace would never let Blackbeard to take WB fruit so he wasnt getting out of Marineford
It falling the other way doesn't change the fact that Luffy would still drop to his knees and get attacked by Akainu, who had a vendetta against Luffy in particular as the son of dragon.
If you delete the scene with Ace going back to Akainu Luffy and Ace would have fled a way longer distance before Luffy collapsed. He also wouldn't care about losing the vivre card at all because his brother is already by his side. Ace could be the one that evacuates Luffy from the battlefield instead of Jimbe which frees the warlord from this duty. Akainu could even die in this scenario because he is now way deeper behind the enemy lines without any backup while more of its enemies are free to do what they want.
What you're writing is headcanon lol, Akainu did go further into enemy lines when he blasted right through Jinbei and Luffy. Luffy still would have dropped the Vivre card and gone after it since he wasn't thinking clearly and was exhausted.
When Akainu goes further into enemy lines later the situation had already massively changed to his advantage. Ace and Whitebeard are dead now, their followers have lost their will to fight and Jimbe is completely occupied with rescuing Luffy. And I highly doubt that Luffy's instinct would have been to grab the Vivre Card when he could have grabbed the real thing in this moment. But of course all I have wrote is headcanon because I already answered on headcanon.
Except no. - Ace already got taunted by Akainu before Luffy fell to his knees and stopped trying to escape. - Ace already got overpowered by Akainu before Luffy fell to his knees and since he wouldnt have run away he would have gotten killed. Ace would have died regardless. Theres nothing wrong with being proud and theres nothing wrong with fighting to the death for what you believe in but Ace lacked the discernment to realize the real goal in this situation, allowed himself to get taunted and ended up dead.
??? I didn't disagree that Ace wouldn't die. I'm saying that Ace would have died even if he didn't get taunted, because Luffy would have dropped to his knees regardless. Ace died because of Luffy, even in a long term context if Luffy hadn't stopped Croc, BB would have never handed Ace over to the WG.
About the last statement, Ace eventually would have found Blackbeard, and the things would have occured in the same way; or if Blackbeard already took another supernova or anything better by the moment Ace had found him, they probably would have killed him right there. Ace simply was the stubborn to blame at, he was not enough trained.
I'm saying if Croc won and remained a warlord, BB never would have gone after Luffy, and so if Ace and BB did meet up, it would be in a completely different scenario. Ace didn't go to attack BB until after BB mentioned he was going after Luffy, so the situation might not have even ended in conflict. We don't even know for sure if the marines Ace got BB's location from in the cover story would have BB's location if he wasn't vying for warlord.
You're wrong. >so if Ace and BB did meet up, it would be in a completely different scenario. Ace didn't go to attack BB until after BB mentioned he was going after Luffy, so the situation might not have even ended in conflict The only way you can truly believe this is if you're not actually reading the story. Ace went after BB to kill him for betraying WB, thats the entire reason he was even there to begin with. The whole point of him tracking BB was because he felt accountable since BB was in the 2nd division and wanted to kill him for what he did. NONE of this has anything to do with Luffy. Ace even says in their conversation that mentioning Luffy is "*another reason why they'll fight*" Why tf do you think Ace went after BB if not for conflict? To have a conversation? Jesus Christ. They would have fought on Banaro Island no matter what even if BB had never mentioned Luffy, because Ace was there to kill him and would have never backed down/let him go or accepted his invitation. That fight was a guarantee the moment Ace left WB's ship. Ace's death was not on Luffy at all.
When was this because Garp sat there the entire time and stopped Marco from freeing ace
Didn't Garp tell Sengoku to keep him held down?
The whole point of the post
No, he didn't. He stopped Garp from fighting Akainu AFTER he already killed Ace. Garp never tried or wanted to save Ace
Never "wanted" to save Ace? What are you talking about? There's a significant difference between despising your duty but upholding it anyway, and not wanting to save his grandson. That's a remarkably poor take on Garp's role in that arc, and of his character overall. He was quite literally held between two impossible choices - allow his grandson to die, or effectively destroy the morale of Marines by revolting, even as a force viewed as an existential threat came upon them. *"Garp never wanted to save Ace"*. That's nasty.
That's your opinion dude. Respect others'. From my point of view, Garp never wanted to save Ace
That's not a matter of opinion though, the story makes it very clear that Garp deeply wanted to save Ace, he just couldn't do it in his position without causing many more deaths
I agree and disagree with both of you. First, garp did want to save ace but both ace and garp understood they each chose their own path in life. When garp visited Ace in prison and he was crying asking ace what he should do, you damn well better know that if ace said "save me Grandpa" garp would've thrown everything away to save his boy. But he didn't so they both accepted that the life they chose led them to here and it's up to white beard/Luffy to save ace not garp. I actually believe this would have resulted in far less deaths than him not intervening. Additionally Akainu would've killed garp at Marine Ford if they fought. BB refused a 10v1 against akainu. Garp was no where near his prime and all it takes is one shot from Akainu to receive life altering damage.
Garp isn't getting one shotted by akainu, he knows how to fight a logia
I didn't say he would get one shotted. I said any shot from Akainu does life altering damage. Garp would keep fighting but we've seen akaniu land hits on ace, white beard, Kuma and the scars/loss of leg kuzan suffered from his fight. Anytime akainu lands a hit you end up with life altering injuries like loss of limbs, loss of parts of your body and scars. That's how dangerous and powerful his attacks are.
yeah, but I feel like a galaxy impact or somth would probably knock akainu out
I believe the power of galaxy impact is on par with the punches WB landed on him with his devil fruit, so I don't think a single hit would KO Akainu additionally if we look kuzan was able to trade punches with garp and if garp traded punches with akainu he would lose half his face
You are right, it is not a matter of opinion. I just said that because I have no interest in discussing about it. In my world if you want something you fight for it to happen. And Garp definitely could make it happen, he just chose not to. He had other priorities, which is fine. It was his choice. The important thing is that Sengoku had nothing to do with it 🤣 (which is what the original commenter said)
Opinions can be wrong. The fact remains that Ace chose that life and had no regrets because he died knowing that people loved him. Garp already did his part to raise him and try and save him from becoming Roger's second coming. He respected his son's and grandsons' life choices even if he doesn't agree with them. He wanted Ace to be saved but he couldn't. Why do you think he looked for someone to beat him up after the war? Thinking that Garp can only choose between saving and not saving Ace is such a narrow-minded POV. He couldn't saved Ace so he then hoped that Luffy would without compromising his position and reputation as the inspiration for all good Marines. He chose the path that allowed Ace to live freely even until his death. Characters need not to be such binary things who can only think of "yes" or "no".
Mente cerrada es no aceptar opiniones ajenas. Si queres decir q Garp "quería" salvar a Ace, decilo. La realidad es que evidentemente habia algo que Garp quería más, o le interesaba más. Por eso no lo salvó. Lo demás es cuento
Close-mindedness is thinking that opinions can't be wrong in the face of facts. You were given facts, it's nobody else's fault if you don't like them.
You were given facts 🤷♀️
Yeah, you can have your own opinion. It's *my* opinion that *your* opinion, in this matter, is nasty and ill-considered. You must have some malicious view of Garp if you think that he *wanted* Ace to die, because that's what *not wanting* to save him comes down to.
Wow, nice straw man fallacy you got in there
He let Luffy by-pass him to save Ace. He didn’t do anything himself but he was clearly holding back. He wanted Ace saved but was okay/hoping Luffy would do it.
Then he didn't want to fight Luffy. Ace had nothing to do with it. He did stop Marco from saving him so... 🤷♀️
Garp was okay with Ace dying by a clean execution for his crimes. Not Akainu punching a hole in him and making a mockery out of it.
Went from friends to colleagues real quick.
It makes sense, Garp had to respond to Sengoku’s summons as he (Sengoku)was in charge, and now, he’s not obligated to or need to..
I hope Sengoku comes back into play. I'd like to see what his powers can really do.
Always assumed Sengoku and Garp would fight in the final war
What
His powers can really do* I assume.
What did it originally say that warranted a "What" response?
his powers candy really so
What
> candy really so. He’s actually secretly Perospero’s dad obviously
👅👅👅👅👅 perorinnn
It's not hard to use context clues to infer what he meant bro. It was one slight error.
What
Even if Garp understands he was just doing his job, Sengoku led the Marines to execute Ace. That would fracture any relationship.
So was Sengoku.
They were both doing their jobs but if your friend orchestrates the public execution your adopted grandson, you’re gonna hold some resentment.
I think it makes sense. Sengoku is one of the major figures that lead to Ace’s execution, Garp’s own adopted grandson. In a void I’d imagine Garp agrees with Sengoku’s actions in executing a notorious pirate. But Garp was connected to Ace causing complications.
Sidebar, why do we keep calling Ace Garp’s “adopted grandson?” Like I get Garp is a little old but by every logical interpretation that’s straight up his adopted kid. He was given a baby and told “please raise him for me”.
For me it’s because of garps general age at the time and the fact that Ace became brothers with Garp’s actual grandson.
I think it’s because Garp didn’t raise Ace that much on his own. Dadan (i think that’s her name) is way more of Ace’s primary care giver/guardian, so she is similar to a mother for Ace. Garp is in Ace’s life, but not nearly as often, and given his age, he just fits the role of Grandpa better than a dad Also if Luffy and Ace are brothers, it wouldn’t make sense of one of them to call Garp Grandpa and the other Dad, because that would technically make Ace Luffy’s adopted uncle.
Personally I believe that since Shanks is adopted by Roger than Ace is actually Shanks’ brother
Technically, yea you could consider them brothers since Shank’s chosen father is clearly Roger But if I had to put a familiar label on them, I’d say it’s more like an adult and Teenager cousins. I don’t think the two are as close as brothers, but I do think there’s a sense of unconditional admiration for each other, through Luffy. Shanks would definitely risk himself for Ace (Going to Marineford) and Ace would likely risk himself for Shanks if possible since Shanks is Luffy’s idol. I don’t think Shanks is as close to Ace as Luffy is, but I could see them having a sort of familiar bond through Luffy mostly since Ace didn’t really like Roger
And I think more than anything else what stopped Garp from saving Ace was Sengoku, they are long time friends and brothers in arms, probably saved each other’s life so many times, if someone else was Fleet Admiral at that moment I think Garp would rebel and save Ace. Even though I don’t blame Garp at all, Ace was an adult who made his choices, Garp tried all their youth to stop them from being pirates. And also Garp is one of those marines that really help people and not just do Government work, as stated by Sengoku he would have been executed many times before if he was not hero of the marines due to openly disrespecting CD
I mean, we did see them hang out together in Film Z and Stampede, but those are considered non-canon. Honestly, kinda ashamed we don't see them together a whole lot. I guess the Marineford War did some damage in their relationship they aren't willing to hung out as they used to.
I'm rather sad that we don't see them together. Like in pre time skip you can see that they are best buddies with Sengoku taking Garps Crackers away to enrage him. I would love to see Sengoku in Action maybe saving Garp from Hachinosu
There are several faults with this theory that makes it unlikely. 1. Garp doesnt mince words. If he felt like that he would just say it straight out whlle picking his nose. 2. What would cause such an extreme and sudden change? We were shown very clearly in the Dadan scene that the one Garp blames is himself 3. It was established in Marineford that Sengoku has a brilliant mind, there is no way he wouldnt figure it out by now. He might feel guilt about it and go about it as if nothing is wrong, but combine all 3 and you get no reason to suspect Garp is no longer a friend to Sengoku. What I think is the actual reason for what you observe is simple, Oda have cut back heavily on anything that doesnt advance the plot, he might have stated worrying about Berserking One Piece.
If true, I would think it’s because Garp is apart of Sword and maybe Sengoku isn’t about it
I doubt Garp is a SWORD He is not the type, he is the type who ignore orders from Marine HQ and knows HQ can't do shit about it, he doesn't need to bother for SWORD formalities
I see him as the inspiration for SWORD. I think everybody knows he sent his resignation letter to Kong, and Kong just left him to his devices. So many other people with similar mindset also put their resignation, but Kong and the marine gave them a similar deal, you can do whatever you want, but once you crossed the line/do what we don't like, we just say you have resigned.
I see him as a member because Koby is. He sees Koby as the future of the marines. Possibly taking what he built to another level with the others in the group. Of course there’s no proof, but that is my current thoughts
Isn't that what the panel says though,? He essentially resigned but still retains the rank.
Garp's the opposite of a SWORD member. He retains his commission because he's a useful propaganda token for the marines, but he doesn't seem to have any official duties. SWORD members resign their commissions but continue to act in the marines' interests (sometimes within the chain of command, sometimes as infiltrators) so that the marines can deny their involvement if they get captured or do anything shady. Put another way, post-timeskip Garp is a marine in name only, while SWORD members are marines in all but name.
It seems you misunderstood. Sword members retain their rank but have agreed to resign. Garp was at reverie recently with official duties. Coby was not rescued because he's sword and it seems the same is true for Garp. They wanted him to teach the next generation so he did that one last time.
They don't agree to resign, they *have* resigned. Garp and Sengoku are explicitly asked to stay on as instructors because having their two most famous members quit right after Marineford would be a PR disaster. Their situation is unique (so far) because of their fame. It isn't clear how the marines will respond to Garp's capture, especially since they're currently getting one hell of a black eye from his grandson on Egghead.
can you even be a viceadmiral and SWORD at the same time?
I don't see why not. X Drake, Prince Grus and Kujaku are all Rear Admirals. Garp is only one position higher and other Marines can't boss him around. Plus he did resign from the role, Kong just let Garp retain his rank.
I don't think it's that they don't hang out. I think Oda just doesn't really show it too often since there's way to much stuff going on as is. I'm certain the two of them are probably still good friends. Though don't get me wrong, I do hope Sengoku is the one to come save and or help Garp. I definitely want to see his devil fruit in full force.
Yeah oda is occupied with other characters atm, however i do want this to be true. Sengoku goes to save garp from the blackbeard pirates and garp gives him the cold shoulder, after all they've been through fighting along side each other for decades, Garp no longer sees sengoku as a friend but more of the man who stopped him from saving ace. Ngl would straight up break my heart.
That would be heart wrenching. I do kind of want them to bring it up in a sense that maybe Garp does feel maybe a slight animosity towards Sengoku at some points. However, I think it should be done tastefully because while understandably it would no doubt leave a bad taste in Garp's mouth that this happened, at the end of the day Sengoku was also only doing his job as well and even Garp had to acknowledge that somewhere too.
I mean the fact that Sengoku was looking for him about rice crackers implies that there relationship wasn't too strained if he thought he could still hang out with him so casually. That said, it sounds like Garp just bolted without telling him to avoid Sengoku and Tsuru stopping him from rescuing Koby.
Mmmm... that's a biiiiiiig stretch
Oda forgot to draw and people here making their own theories.
It's like they work in the same office so they are usually shown to hang out but now they retire they do their own things. Garp even go back to his hometown when he was off duty and Sengoku was off somewhere else. Like I dont hangout with my highschool friend much doesnt mean were not good.
I mean, after the Ace situation I’m not surprised
I mean it's obvious. Who would still be friends after that?
Sengoku should have been the one to say to Garp let’s go save Koby. That would have been a fun battle
Sengoku is kinda in the same camp as Kizaru for me. Complicit in his role. He may have "retired" as Fleet Admiral, but he's not doing anything of his own motivation or to fight the system.
> Sengoku is kinda in the same camp as Kizaru for me. Well Kizaru is Sengoku's pupil, the way Aokiji is Garp's pupil and Akainu is Tsuru's pupil. Oda has drawn some pretty straight lines down to represent the influence of the dreams of the previous generations on the dreams of the current ones
Why would he? He retired cuz he couldn’t do it anymore. He’s now training new marines while instilling in them his opinion and ideologies
Garp is also semi-retired, just sayin
What does that have to do with the fact that sengoku isn’t just sitting on his ass
Because both are semi-retired and at least Garp did something. What exactly is Sengoku doing now?
I defs hold him as accountable for Ace's death as Akainu, he ordered the execution after all.
Counterpoint: If Garp had already been avoiding him for two years, he wouldn't still try to hang out as much. I'm pretty sure this is just a coincidence.
The way I see it, like you mentioned they seem to still hang out but Sengoku seems to be taking this retirement seriously. Sengoku seemed to be a Marine through and through, he probably spent his entire career mentoring and leading people so to him now that he is retired he can finally take off the chains and really relax the way Garp had always been. Meanwhile, I see Garp as the opposite. Garp was a reluctant teacher if at all while he was active but I think Ace's death and his ultimate failure to get either of his grandsons into the Navy finally cemented his need to raise a successor in the Navy. Now that he knows he was on his way out one way or another he seemed to double down on teaching. That is probably why he took this position he took after his 'retirement', a chance to look over the next generation and maybe find a group who could take on his will once he's gone. Which whether he's a member of SWORD or not it seems like they all revere him deeply. TLDR; I think they are still friends. But I think while Sengoku is finally free to relax and have a good time. Garp is taking his job probably more seriously than he ever has, at least since Roger was around.
I don't have an opinion on the Sengoku part of that, but I disagree with your Garp assessment. Garp wasn't a reluctant teacher, he was quite active as a teacher and the only thing he has been shown to be reluctant with is doing what he is told. Out of all the Marines, Garp is known to have the most direct students that he has trained. The obvious ones are Koby and Helmeppo, which he picked himself when he saw that the two had potential. We also know he trained Kuzan, who is the only student he didn't pick himself as Kuzan was the one asking. Then there's the non-Marines. Both Luffy and Ace were trained by him to become Marines. He was a bit more hands-off with them than the rest, but that's because of the job. And I think it's safe to assume Garp also trained Dragon to some extent, since he did train his grandsons. That's a lot of teaching and he chose to train all but one of them without being asked. Not very reluctant in my opinion. And about him being more active now seems pretty baseless as well, since we have really seen him do two work things since his so called retirement. He set up a Marine training academy to protect his home town and he went to save Koby. The latter wasn't even a sanctioned mission, he just chose to go and do it. So he's still doing what he has always done, what he wants to do.
Oda just hasn't drawn them together lol
Because they are no longer friends
Let it be forever remembered that Garp chose duty over family.
Dadan, is that you?
Sengoku gave up on helping the future of the Marines because of how corrupt the WG is, and settled on just being an overpaid decoration and Garp didn't like that his friend went that route.
Fans make the craziest theories with no evidence
“Sengoku tries to hang out with Garp by finding some new crackers or tea flavors for him to try but he doesn’t want to be friends with him anymore” It’s almost like he went to save koby. How would Garp hear sengoku. There’s no evidence that Garp was blowing off plans to see sengoku The reason sengoku didn’t know was because he wasn’t around Garp, Hina knew and told sengoku. Garp isn’t the type to tell people what he’ll do before he does it. Either you’re right there with him or you don’t know until you hear about it in the news
Garp is still active duty while Sengoku is semi retired. They probably just don't have many opportunities to hang out anymore.
I'm more intrigued about Kong not accepting Garps resignation. Couldn't that be making Garp a member of Sword wether that was his intention or not?
Nah .. since luffy and garp almost think the same .. they have that forgiving nature .. they're simpleminded, get feelings hurt .. luffy forgave his friends no matter what.. i think garo does too
things would kind of awkward between the two I could see there friendship being strained after what happened at Marineford like I think there not as close as they use to be just work colleagues now . Like every time garp sees Sengoku he would be reminded of what happened
Doesn't the panel of Sengoku asking for Garp to show him a new rice crackers flavour literally disprove this? It's been 2 years Sengoku would know if Garp doesn't want to talk with him by now. Garp didn't tell Sengoku because he wouldn't want Sengoku to get involved, also because as we saw when Garp talked to Doll, Garp doesn't think about telling anyone what he's gonna do, and Sengoku even tho retired would still scold Garp for attacking Blackbeard. As for the Ace stuff...Garp knew what he was getting into. Ace was a pirate, it was his choice. I don't think Garp blames Sengoku when he was just doing his job lol.
No it’s just Sengoku trying to reignite old friendship
Based on what? There's nothing suggesting they aren't friends anymore lmao. While non canon the Movies are supervised by Oda and they're seen together multiple times. Nothing says they're not friends, Sengoku wouldn't want to show Garp a new rice crackers flavour if they weren't 💀
Based on my theory
I'm not sure if it is related to the topic, but I believe both Sengoku and Garp are members of the SWORD organisation alongside Kuzan. I think this panel shows that Garp made a rash decision Sengoku would be against. This situation does, in a way, parallel what happened to Ace. Instead of doing what Sengoku would do, Garp decided to follow his gut feeling this time. It isn't that they aren't friends any longer. Garp just dodged having to deal with Sengoku, who would try to prevent him from leaving for his own sake. My understanding is that Garp decided to take Koby's place, and Kuzan, another member of SWORD and Garp's disciple, decided to honour his wish. Knowing Oda, he won't play his cards with such a potent, popular, and hyped character so poorly. Garp is at the moment the Trojan horse there, and, I assume, there is going to be a subplot with him, Law, and other members of SWORD.
They look like friends to me tbh. Also I'm more impressed by Oda that kept the cookie plot for almost 500 chapters and made the gag canon.
Sengoku shaved his mustache in the first image
It’s not moustache it’s localised Haki
I feel like Garp and Sengoku are fine
A Banshees of Inisherin kind of situation
I think it can be more a lowkey depression, that makes Garp to be more isolated, and Sengoku has now the supportive role Garp had when he was the stressed as fuck fleet admiral. I see the entire Hachinosu rescue as an attempt to do what he did not for Ace, resembling Whitebeard and this inspiring his sacrifice.
Yes, I feel like this could be it as well, as I said Garp just avoids him due to depression and regret
It's crazy how much Kong is more charismatic than Sengoku :/ we have barely saw him in 20 years and yet he still inspire more respect than Sengoku ...
Yeah nah.
Off topic but I know it’s a common theory that Kong is related to Garp, and I just realized the left side of his face has a scar like Luffy and garp (and dragon has the tatoo there). I hope Oda one day confirms it
Sengoku shaved his mustache in the first image
Makes sense, in strong world, Garp asked to be in Sengoku's ship
Sengoku apparently thinks they're still on good enough terms to banter about cracker flavors and is expecting Garp to be around. He probably sees him but we just haven't seen it because that's not relevant to the story right now.
You are basing this on one panel where garp was not there. Of course they have shared time, otherwise sengoku would not be casually calling garp out to share his cookies xD.
Best believe Sengoku getting it back in blood, Next time they see eachother may be the last time we see them in page together….
I think that last panel is open to interpretation. If we assume nothing, this looks like them acting completely in character. Garp just left to get Koby since he knew Sengoku would probably give him trouble. Garp doesn't strike me as the type to hold grudges, similar to Luffy.
I think garp may have shared any knowledge he had of the void century(he could have learned from Roger). Sengoku is all garp esque chill now that he's an inspector.
I wouldn't wanna hang out with the guy who ordered my grandson's execution either.
The last panel is not evidence at all and the first one is barely evidence. Garp went off to save Koby he ain't got time to try rice crackers lmao.
Best theory I've read so far. Anyway, I still wonder what's the status of Kong, is he like a "world government minister" ?
How? This theory is extremely mid. Oda simply doesn’t have time to draw them together because that’s pointless rn. Also we rarely seen them these days let alone have enough time see them together
Haha you're right, thanks for taking the time to explain this to me, that was worth it
Yw sorry if it sounded agressive
This would be a neat convo topic if we see Garp and Kuzan talk in BB's dungeon somewhere, Kuzan asking how Sengoku's been since Kuzan retired and Garp answering with "that makes two of us". Kuzan definitely seems like he regrets being a Marine, so it'd be interesting to see if Garp feels a similar way.
I don’t know seems sad so L theory
I think garp had made peace with ace being executed but the way akainu killed ace didn't sit right with him and he kinda blames sengoku for it??