Ancient technology was already stated to be way more advanced than the current
And the 20 kingdoms had to unite together to even have a chance against the ancient kingdom.
So Iād expect Emet to be really strong yeah
The present trying to catch up and surpass the past is already a theme in Egghead. So I wouldnāt be surprised if it was stronger than a Yonko.
Though I doubt it would defeat someone like Kaido with one hit.
It's also reliant on the drumbeat of freedom to be powered as of now, making it kind of like an assist, you just can't put it out on the playing field forever. We've seen Kaido's ridiculous durability, so Esmet would require a Looooong duration of Nika's presence to be fully active and beat Kaido as far as we know.
The whole Drumbeat of Freedom thing makes me wonder if Franky could use the robot after this to upgrade the Straw Hats equipment, so whenever Luffy goes Gear they all get a power boost
Vegapunk himself has basically admitted he doesnt understand the robot's inner workings and understood its power source even less, so its doubtful Franky could do anything to upgrade SH equipment.
We are due for various upgrades as it is, many chapters ago we see Jimbei bring all the stuff to the ship that Vegapunk had asked and we know Lilith will be on the ship. So surely we're in for a lot of upgrades using that with Franky/Lilith.
So would the Gorosei match this massively superior powerlevel of the ancient kingdom?
If they are \*\*this\*\* strong, I kinda feel there is a shitload of gaps in the story.
The ancient technology is far further ahead into the future than the current tech.
This Robot is far more advanced than the Seraphim. Though I think the robot is perhaps humanoid, it has thoughts and self-awareness. It might be part of an ancient race.
Yeah, I just thought how could a robot have memory and awareness?
But Kuma was also turned into a Cyborg, so it wouldn't be far off to have an ancient robot who was a human previously.
One thing to never forget is that "mass" exists,
Emet is very heavy, so his punches are also very heavy.
He is made of steel, potentially infused with sea stone, even if not he's certainly quite wet in that attack.
We don't really know how warcury's durability works, but it might be possible that Emet was made to counter that with science.
Actually Doffy and Kaidou were confused about Luffy's rubber attacks because they shouldn't work like Luffy is using them.
Also Gear 5 is even more powerful because of haki with internal damage.
No, it would work. Air has mass and you need a quite a lot of air for something as solid as Luffy, even if he is made of rubber, to get that inflated. Let's say the volume of a gear 3 fist was 10 cubic meters, just for the space taken by air. I don't want to assume any real measurements since this is One Piece and sizes aren't real and I'm feeling lazy.
1 cubic meter of air would weigh around 1.29 kg so the fist would have about 12.9 kg extra weight. Same amount in water would be 10 000 kg, so almost a hundred times more than the air. Since air is very compressible, it's mass per volume should climb pretty steadily with increased pressure. So let's say Luffy can hold about 10 times the normal air pressure, but I'm assuming much more since he can get sent flying by the deflation, but still. 129 kg fist isn't nothing to laugh at. Moving at half the speed of a boxers punch, 15 miles/h or 24,14 km/h that is a lot of mass coming straight at you at quite a bit of speed. Now since Luffy can punch at anime speeds, even with gear 3, that's A LOT of force.
So for the power of the punches to match with rest of the universes physics, all the explanation needed is that Luffy fills them to be at very high air pressures. 10x atmospheric is already a lot when it comes at you fast enough.
> Let's say the volume of a gear 3 fist was 10 cubic meters
I'm on your side here in terms of believing in the power of g3, but this is actually a hilarious underestimate when you refer to [the original g3 punch](https://imgur.com/ha4mkLo) which was easily over 200 cubic meters [as I calculated in my other comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1dwurak/just_how_strong_is_it/lbyl68m/)
Oh absolutely, I was just writing the comment and pulled the first number from my head that I knew wasn't an overestimate. I was thinking "That fist was damn huge, oh well I know it's at least larger than 10mĀ³."
I really don't think that the little extra mass of air (even at higher pressure) is worth it as trade off for the bigger impact area. Also bigger air resistance slows the punch down more than for his normal attacks.
From a realistic standpoint, G3 is useless.
The impact area does matter, but not as much as you think. For someone being punched, the impact area can't grow more than the size of the person in question. Let's start with some random estimates. I'm gonna keep it pretty simple, let's not go measuring the the surface area of every persons body who has taken a gear 3 punch for a Reddit discussion.
[The size of Luffy's fist and the rest of the arm are I'd say somewhere in the range of 25-30 cubic meters, but hard to say.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/3/37/Gear_3.png/revision/latest?cb=20230202005357) Let's go with 25 to be safer. That's 32.25 kg of air at atmospheric pressure and the weight of the arm, let's go with 5 kg. Total of 37.25 kg.
A regular punch is intended to hit you and cause damage from direct impact to a weaker area which can't just absorb most of the impact. Dodging is priority number one and blocking secondary, because even if you do block a punch, it's still a multiple kg projectile moving quite fast. This is all in terms of a punch that does most damage on contact, not an anime punch where you make contact and then throw the punch AKA pushing with fists. So a punch of a boxer, according to google, can be about 776 pounds of force in a small area and can be from painful to lethal, depending where it lands.
But for Luffy, let's first go with 1 atmo pressure. Mass was 37.25 kg and my first low balled speed of a punch was half of a boxers punch, but since Luffy sends out gear 3 punches by launching them, I'll go with 30 mph or 48,28 km/h. That's not very much, only 753,11 pounds of force average if the impact is about a meter, but 753110 if it's a millimeter. Gear 3 is hits like a punch in an anime, but let's go with the meter. So an equivalent of 753,11 having spread across most of your body for about a tenth of a second. Honestly, that's not bad and it's very close to the force of a boxers punch, but spread all over the body instead and if bracing for the impact correctly, it won't be much at all.
But let's keep going. At two atmospheres of pressure or about how pressurized a car tire is, the mass of the punch is 69.5 kg. Stopping that within a meter would be equal to 1405 pounds of force average. That's still OK for the surface area, but I wouldn't want to be like Lucci and get stuck between that and a brick wall. But let's go further. Bike tire pressure can go up to 8.8 times atmospheric pressure. A fist with the mass of 332.8 kg at the speed of a boxers punch would be 6728 pounds of force over one meter. Now you DEFINITELY don't want to get between that and a wall, that's without a question a deathly punch if your back is against a wall.
Now let's add some anime to the punch and increase the speed. Luffy tends to slingshot his punches so double the speed, double the force. Long story short, at normal speeds and regular boxer punch speeds, tanking the punch would be easy, but only if you can actually catch the impact. If you are standing with no grip to the ground, that shit is a 37.25 kg projectile coming towards you. Not much worse than falling over, so as long as the head doesn't hit the ground too bad, should be fine. But at even 2 times atmospheric pressure, it's about an average adult male weight coming at you running at 30 miles per hour or 28% faster than Usain Bolt. Or actually quite close to Usain Bolt running at you. I wouldn't want to get hit by Usain Bolt running at his top speed, even if it was a very direct collision.
That's a lof of examples and I could go on forever. The point is, if 2 atmos is Usain Bolt body slamming you, with the speed of punches in anime and likely higher pressures, the potential energy can become insane. But getting hit by that while in mid air could potentially be fine, but they would launch you. With your back against a wall or the ground, you dead, except against maybe 2-3 atmos.
I only skimmed over anything, because your whole point falls flat at the assumption that he only has a 5kg punch without G3 and nearly 40kg with G3...
You do realize that the weight behind a normal punch is MUCH higher? Because you put your body weight behind it as well. Even if you calculate with \~32kg air (which seems too high tbh), it does not increase the punch tenfold. It doesn't even double it most likely.
It's very clear you didn't read it since I at no point said that a real punch is 5 kg. I added the weight of a human arm to G3's weight. For the power of a real punch I used data I could find online for how hard boxers can punch. Because real punches are very complex to calculate, but there's no need to since the data is already out there. So everything you just said about the 5 kg is wrong.
And for gear 3 calculations, I used the 5 kg as added weight on top of the air inside the inflated arm to make the calculations more accurate. And those numbers weren't the force of the punch, those were the mass of the fist. My reasoning for that is that Luffy usually throws the G3 punches, as in literally throws his fist, after which he can't put his body weight into it anymore as it's now stretching away from his body. This let's me calculate the power of G3 punches easier as I don't need to calculate the mechanics of a real punch and I can just focus on the moving mass and it's also closer to how Luffy uses G3. He rarely puts his body into a pushing force on contact.
The anime isn't very accurate with that, he keeps somehow pushing punches that are stretching away, but manga doesn't really do that, so I chose to ignore that part from the anime. You CAN put your body weight into a real punch, but it's a good thing I wasn't calculating a real punch. Again, I googled that one.
So if you want to read the comment and talk about it, then go on ahead, I'm willing to discuss it. But don't read two lines, misunderstand them and then comment like you know what I said. All the actual force numbers for G3 were in there. Go ahead, I gave my numbers, go check the math if you want.
That's Luffy though, he's doing reality warping all the time and most of what he does shouldn't work.
Especially his gears.
Mythical Zoans can be wacky
And DFs in general are often just straight up reality warping.
Nah, that's why it's super odd and shouldn't work, multiple people couldn't believe he was actually stronger from doing that. It's Nika's special power, Luffy thought that blowing up his arm or muscles should work a certain way and the toon power of Nika made it work that way. That's also why everyone was saying it finally makes sense, because rubber doesn't work that way.
> Luffy thought that blowing up his arm or muscles should work a certain way and the toon power of Nika made it work that way.
That's how devil fruits work. It's the way dinosaurs hunted in the ancient past.
Gear 5 is special and I suspect Luffy is **actually** increasing his body's basic mass for that (rather than filling with air)
As far as Gear 3 goes, there's certainly a bit of "hahah manga logic", but the idea that has always made sense to me is that his bones are being stretched taut and therefore there is a far, FAR more solid "impact" to getting hit by gear 3 than his usual rubber attacks.
Not to mention that air does have mass, it's just mass so low that it doesn't have "weight" (which is not mass) on earth. However, things like force and momentum equations rely on mass, not weight. So Luffy's weight doesn't go up (he'd measure the same on a scale since weight is set relative to local air density in addition to gravitational factors) when he uses gear 3, but his mass absolutely goes up.
The mass of air is 1.29kg per cubic meter. The [original G3 punch vs Lucci](https://imgur.com/ha4mkLo) is about 3 times Lucci's height in two dimensions and, accounting for the conical effect back to his body, let's say only meaningfully 3 times Lucci's height lengthwise as well (I'm underestimating so you can get a minimum value for how much mass this is).
Lucci is a little over 2 meters tall, let's round down to 2 meters. So currently we have 6x6x6 cubic meters of air, or 216m^3. This means it adds 1.29 * 216 = 278.64kg to Luffy's mass just from the air he pumps into it. If we assume he's usually punching like a professional boxer with his whole body weight behind it, he's only 64kg at base so he's actually multiplying his mass by 5.35x. Again, that's **at a minimum**.
If we assume (because manga+his fruit logic) that Luffy can punch just as fast in g3 as in base form, then he's punching with over 5x as much force and momentum in g3 as in base, in addition to his bones being stretched taut to provide a less elastic collision.
There's good reason for that punch to fucking hurt.
Mass is how much matter is in a certain volume. Luffy expanding his body parts in gear 3 is massively increasing the volume while the matter is staying the same, or increasing barely by being filled with air. Either way the mass drops tremendously.
It's a manga full of retcons and silly logic so I have no idea why I am even arguing this or why you are trying to bring in half baked math.
Oda isn't thinking about this nearly as hard as anyone in this comment chain. He is a silly goofy man that makes a silly goofy manga.
I... uh... I don't know how to say this nicely, but almost none of the things you said are correct. I'm even going to ignore how I disagree with you entirely on the physics of gear 3, I want to focus on how wrong you are on the concepts alone.
>Mass is how much matter is in a certain volume.
That's density. Density is how much matter is in a certain volume. Mass in simple terms is the amount of atomic mass an object has. The mass of an object doesn't change no matter how you stretch or modify it, unless you add or remove material.
>Luffy expanding his body parts in gear 3 is massively increasing the volume while the matter is staying the same, or increasing barely by being filled with air. Either way the mass drops tremendously.
Well, it doesn't stay the same. Air has mass. The mass of an object increases when you add air to said object. The only correct part here is that the volume increases when Luffy uses gear 3, but matter DOESN'T stay the same and it ESPECIALLY doesn't GO DOWN?! WHAT?! Mass increases! The apparent weight can go down when inflating an object, but that's due to buoyancy effects or temperature of the gas inside the object rising or lowering, which can also affect apparent weight. But just because you add mass and the apparent weight goes down, that doesn't mean the MASS has gone down. Mass and (apparent) weight are two different things, mass can go up and apparent weight can go down. Either way, mass never drops when you add mass, unless you cause a leak.
>why you are trying to bring in half baked math.
Because math is fun and eyeballing physics problems can be a lot of fun. Not the person you replied to, but their math was far baked than your arguments. This is One Piece reddit, what's wrong with doing stupid math for no particular reason to prove nothing of importance?
>Oda isn't thinking about this nearly as hard as anyone in this comment chain. He is a silly goofy man that makes a silly goofy manga.
Oda has been thinking about One Piece since he was a child. Romance Dawn wasn't just a one off comic that he threw together, he has been working on the concept since he was a kid. He has thought about these things probably more than anyone here. Does he get things wrong? Absolutely, but let's not kid ourselves, we can't match how much a workaholic spends thinking about their work.
But you did say something that wasn't ridiculous in the middle of the message.
>It's a manga full of retcons and silly logic so I have no idea why I am even arguing this
It absolutely is. And I don't know either, I suggest you at least take a quick peek at the wikipedia page for the concept of mass before you argue that adding mass removes mass.
Yea I did read up on mass and I was wrong about that.
Oda does think about the story no doubt, but he doesnt care about the real life math applications nearly as hard as the people in this comment chain.
Oda has changed enough of the story, and just made shit up in sbs's that its OBVIOUS he isn't thinking as hard as the people making these calculations.
He has things he cares about, and he has things he doesn't give a shit about. Nika is the perfect example. What nika is, what he represents, is exactly who I think oda wanted luffy to be, but nika himself as a concept? That shit was made up in wano or an arc before (I am betting on during wano)
> Oda does think about the story no doubt, but he doesnt care about the real life math applications nearly as hard as the people in this comment chain.
Highly disagree. One of the changes Oda made to G3 over time was making the fist smaller, but he didn't make the amount of air super tiny. He started adding a [massive air bubble behind the fist.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/6/65/Gomu_Gomu_no_Elephant_Gun.png/revision/latest?cb=20230521134028) In general, the fist itself is much smaller when Luffy uses gear 3, but Luffy kept the air levels even.
More proof that Oda does think about this kind of stuff is gear 4 in general. Bounce man vs. Snake man. Mass vs mobility. Bounce man has much more mass to play with for both defensive and offensive play, giving him room to bounce off more attacks and add more mass to his hits, but being that full of air makes his apparent weight low enough to make standing still difficult with the bouncy body. Snake man loses the bounciness but gains from having his feet on the ground. Less power, but much more control over his feet, which allows him more control over all. This is very relevant in real fighting, planting your feet for a punch let's you put more into it, but you keep on your toes when not going for an attack.
>That shit was made up in wano or an arc before
While I agree with the last paragraph, Oda doesn't just come up with that stuff in an arc or two. He does finalize concepts and make changes the closer he gets, from his own new ideas and due to editors suggestions. And while Nika might be a newer idea, warrior of liberation has been something he's been planning in some way or another since the whole series basically. Most arcs are Luffy liberating a country or people that are being oppressed, especially starting from Grand Line. Even Luffy's father is the leader of the revolutionary army. The concept might have evolved over time, but Nika wasn't a one or two arc idea. At most, he came up with the name that late, but Luffy and him being exactly what Nika is has to have been mulling over in his mind for a LOOOOONG time.
Oda is a mangaka and he is very self deprecating. He says stuff like "he didn't think about that" quite a lot, but culturally I think he is often saying that jokingly. A very big difference between writers in the west and Japan is how heavily editors push the mangakas to study what they are writing about as well as the editors studying the concepts as well. Physics of gear 3 is absolutely something he thought a lot about. What he doesn't care about is to make the math accurate, since there's no need to know how big the fist needs to be to do a specific amount of damage. What matters is that the concept makes sense.
Another great piece of evidence for that is how Doflamingo spent time laughing at gear 3, but then started analyzing it once he didn't look down on it anymore. He thought about the bounciness and the odd ways Luffy uses the air to his advantage. And the opposite would be Kaido trying to analyze Nika and getting nothing, because that form throws the rules out the window for creative freedom. Because that's the idea, it doesn't rely on logic, but creativity. And for gear 2, Oda explained it very specifically how and why it works when Luffy fought Bruno the same way gear 4 got analyzed by Doffy. He doesn't just throw concepts around, he definitely thinks about them A LOT. He just ignores the math for the specifics.
In short, I agree that Oda probably doesn't get too deep into math of the physics, but he definitely thinks of the physics when coming up with how things work. The math is just us readers having fun with it.
EDIT: Forgot to add, **massive** respect for acknowledging having been wrong and not deleting the comment. I'm happy knowing that I'm arguing with someone who isn't in it to fight about it. And sorry if I came off a bit aggressive in the first reply, I was moments away from going to bed and reading it back I was a bit too harsh there.
You thinking that One Piece is just a thrown together story where Nika "*was made up in Wano or an arc before*" pretty much invalidates everything you're saying. That's in addition to the rest of the nonsense you've espoused so far, including a comment on mass earlier when its clear you had no idea what you were talking about.
Oda thinks very deeply about the elements he includes in the story. Does he also include silly elements? Yes. Has he made quick changes to things? Also yes. But your conclusion that he doesnt care nearly as hard as the people in this comment chain is both wrong and lazy.
Devil fruits are beyond physics though, they are powered by dreams and imagination. Luffy believes that a bigger fist equals more power and so even if he punches someone with the equivalent of a balloon, it does massive damage. Lucci and Doflamingo are both astonished by the way his powers work. All of his gears make a lot more sense if you look at them with Nika logic. And it's not just the Nika fruit, a lot of Zoans simply do not behave like they should (e.g. the giraffe or the dinosaurs). Some paramecias are also quite farfetched in their abilities (e.g. the string fruit or the paw fruit).
That's not your point though, you are using Luffy's gear 3 to say that mass is meaningless in One Piece, which is clearly not true. Mass being tied to power is definitely a thing (see Usopp 5t hammer for example, Perona definitely believed he was gonna kill her). It's just that DF abilities completely ignore physics. Emeth's weight is definitely part of the strength of his attack.
> Doflamingo are both astonished by the way his powers work
Who shouldn't be considering he also does crazy shit with his powers. Like, making entirely functional clones and organs out of strings? Cmon
Yeah he didn't make them out of scratch, but he also didn't just "stitch" them he also had to make some organ matter since they got heavily damaged by the counter shock. In the end it's just a nitpick.
When Luffy inflates his punches he is more like a truck tire than a balloon
Imagine getting hit by that. It would obliterate you.
Air will add mass, it really depends on how hard the material containing that air is and how much he can compress that air.
Mass definitely matters. Kidd demonstrated that.
He broke Big Mom's arm by slamming a large heavy weight that she just couldn't hold back. He didn't break her skin or have more power than her, he just put mass x acceleration to work.
He did the same thing to Kaido.
since hes nika i think hes actually getting bigger, or unconsciously toon forcing "big limbs mean more damage" if luffy was just inflating like a balloon then it wouldnt work
I think people are reading the power level of Emet wrong.
I think Emet is powered by the same energy that made Saturn weak when he reached to close to the mother flame.
After all, Vegapunk created the mother flame studying Emet.
The Gorosei are weak to whatever were the power source of the ancient kingdom.
I think maybe Luffy can eat the mother flame and from that point he will have the right power source to damage the Gorosei.
It's a question of WHAT is damaging them, not brute force.
Yes this is how I see it too. Luffy and co were able to keep up enough to not get bodied by the Elders, but even the heavy hitters couldnāt show any lasting damage. It makes sense the Emet has the power source that must be a weakness to whatever gives the elders there power, thus able to actually cause visible damage.
I also like the idea that it was built with sea stone so it could be a hard counter that will make seastone relevant again after the introduction of haki kinda pushed it to the sidelines.
Then at least one seastone needle like hiyori had, something. I mean Wano makes the entire world's supply and they have enough to supply the world government with every ship getting it's entire bottom covered.
Reality is Oda just realized it's too op. Same with logia's which is why haki was introduced.
It has to be. Kaido was built up as the strongest person to actively roam the seas. We as readers knew he isn't the final boss, but in the one piece world he was considered to be the strongest.
Emeth landed a hit on Warcury, yes. But Kuma, Bonney, Sanji, and Luffy have also landed hits on the elders. The elders can mysteriously recover after rough hits though.
Iām certain that Kaido could have landed a huge blow on an elder, but the elder would just recover unless Kaido figured out how to do permanent damage.
The reason Kaido wasnāt destroyed by the elders (who could obviously take him on in a 1v5) is the elders donāt want the world knowing their power unless itās absolutely necessary. Now is a time that revealing their power is less bad than the alternative (the alternative being the void century being revealed).
The elders allowed the warlords and the emperors to exist because they werenāt worried about those groups revealing the void century, and those groups acted as free police to keep piracy limited. The marines primarily policed the four seas where the plebs live (most kingdoms associated with the original 20 country WG seem to be in the grand line), the warlords destroyed problematic upstarts in paradise, and the emperors got rid of anyone strong enough for the new world. I think the elders acquired the fourth road poneglyph after Roger so they arenāt worried about anyone else finding laughtale.
Regardless of whether or not they can recover from any injuries, my argument was about how Luffy could not deal *any* visible damage to Warcury (Even when using the same move that floored Kaido) while that robot could. Sure, he's probably going to heal that like nothing happened but I was mostly wondering how devastating that same punch would be towards BM or Kaido, characters that do not have that healing factor.
Luffy, Bonney, and Kuma all felt visible damage to an elder though, Saturn.
Luffy landed what would be a fatal blow on Saturn if not for his recovery ability. Bonney dealt the first damage with a sword wound, and Kuma absolutely fucked him up before he healed.
I was under the impression that Warcury in particular had a much, MUCH tougher hide than the other 4 on top of also having the same healing factor as them.
Yeah Warcury has been stated to have a higher durability than Kaido by Luffy
If it were any other Elder then it would be a different discussion, but because it is Warcury itās clear Oda is making a statement about how strong Emet is, that he was able to break the tusk when Luffy couldnāt do any damage like that.
Luffy has only done a gear 3 attack on Warcury in chapter 1112. Dorry and Broggy were able to deflect one of his attacks without much issue. I donāt think heās much stronger than the other elders.
Oh I don't think he is either.
But he's an absolute tank compared to the other 4.
That sword Bonney used to stab Saturn? Probably would break instead of actually going in.
That punch Kuma gave Saturn not long after? He probably wouldn't even react to it.
He used gear 5 on Saturn, after which Saturn had to regenerate multiple limbs.
He only used gear 3 on Warcury. If you donāt believe me go back a re-read chapter 1112.
How? Wapolmetal is his own creation. It doesn't even exist before he ate things and mass-produced his dolls. Rather than wapolmetal, it's make more sense being something closely resembles wapolmetal.
Impossible to say at the moment. The Gorosei have gotten injured throughout the whole arc, but they can just shrug it off due to their regenerative power, so this hit means pretty much nothing, for all we know Warcury just got caught offguard by Emet.
Spider legs aren't super sturdy compared to boar tusks, but also, Luffy was always getting injured from hitting the forehead and certain boar species have notoriously tough foreheads.
Luffy hasn't hit a tusk yet, as far as we know. So we're not yet sure that the robot is stronger than Luffy (but it probably is, for now at least)
If the robot can smash in Warcury's forehead next chapter then he's the physically strongest being in the 'verse for now lol
Warcury and Saturn are different. Warcury has an established super toughness while Saturn is more vulnerable than him.
Warcury is so hard that Luffyās rubber fists get hurt from punching him.
u/Bluelore
~~Wasn't the big problem the intense heat that Warcury is emitting? IIRC Luffy was complaining how his hand got burned, not that he hurt his fist when he hit him.~~
EDIT: Nevermind, in the official translation Luffy comments on his toughness.
Dang you are right, the site I was using claimed it used the official translation, but it didn't.
I do think Warcurys heat is also hurting him, but his toughness is certainly the main problem, so you are right that Emet is packing quite the punch here.
Emeth:" I cultivated haki for hundreds of years secretly while sleeping,and punched the tusk out of elder face after awakening,at the start"
FTW,cringe af.
We know nothing about the tech back then but I assume it had to be made to put up a fight for whatever reason. Teh tech was advanced for even today so based on that Emet has to be strong due to that technology we don't know about. Maybe there's a weakness of the elders that they had and the robot is made of. Hard to say.
Youāre assuming this is a matter of raw strength when it could absolutely be a matter of āEmet has something in it that counters the goroseiās powersā
I mean Emeth broke Warcuryās tusk and Luffyās Red Roc (which shook Kaido so much he was in his feels stacking Luffy against his top 5 [Roger, Rocks, Whitebeard, Shanks, & Oden]) did fuck all to him. So if the bot can do damage that Luffy cannot, he is pretty fucking strong.
Gonna be honest, I found it this whole deal of Luffy not being able to hurt Warcury really frustrating. We just got out of a huge saga where the villain was also suppose to be invencible and had Luffy doing one of the very rare training montage in One Piece to learn how to bypass this kind of hard skin, and now we have to deal with the same problem again?????
Obviously endgame antagonists are gonna be stronger. It would be pretty boring if Kaido was the strongest enemy and now luffy just needs to beat people weaker than the guy he already beat.
I keep saying Luffy Gear 5 has only been able to blow the 5 elders
Here comes a real OG probably One of joy boys crew mate and shows everyone how the first pirate crew gets down.
Luffy is going to Looney Tunes at least a couple of the Gorosei, he beat Kaido with a combination of that and pure strength with G5 just newly unlocked, I'm expecting some full accordion mode out of Ju Peter at some point
Not to downplay on Emet strength but every hits on Warcury, the boar is aware of an incoming attack and has time to defend himself but those hits still hurts him. This one is a surprise attack though and if Warcury recovers in a short time then to me Emet's punch is the same or a bit more as Kuma's punch to Saturn.Ā
Powerscaling is a curse.
I wonder why.. in real life we don't measure strength like that.. and even so we see all the time duels in fighting sports with one losing then winnijg in a revenge match.. they grow stronger, then weaker, etc.
The final attack Luffy did on Kaido certainly was stronger than anything he tried on the gorousei up to now.
And even if that's debunked later..
Ah.. who am I kidding I will never be able to convince powerscalers about this they soeak a different oanguage than I do.
Yeah yeah the iron giant is the strongest thing on one piece now eh whee..
There.
Y'all on some high amounts of copium lol. Luffy attacks Warcury's head which is clearly tougher than rest of his body parts. And he did it twice despite not being able to damage him on the head the first time. The rest of his body parts like his face or horns are clearly damagable and not as hard as his head. It's as simple as that. Someone tanks one or two hits and people go comparing them with Kaido or Big Mom smh.
I think everyoneās forgetting just as how Bonnie was first revealed in this arc as a child.
Emeth emerged from **seawater** and struck Mercury. Maybe just maybe thereās a correlation there hmmm
the move is called Rage Fist, a Ghost type attack, and power base on how many times it got hit, therefore it is super effective to the undead ghost type old geezer :P
We dont know.
We will discover
There are things about this scene way more important
Power level of things are shallow, do yourself a favor and start exercising not thinking about power level
You are welcome
The scene was cool
From what we know, Emet was one of the few main allies Joyboy had. Joyboy is surely much stronger than current gear 5 Luffy, so his first mate should be as well
My thought is that theyāre weak against pure physical strength and heal from damage from DF and Haki hence why they exterminated the Buccaneer race and fear the giants which will be pure strengthā¦.
Robot is what it isā¦ robot
I don't think the elders are each as strong as a yonko. I think they are just exceptionally durable. As we see luffy holding multiple elders back, we also see Zoro block a hit from one and not end up half dead like he did with kaido.
I believe the Iron Giant runs purely on Haki. It has been shown many times that inanimate objects can inherit the will and/or soul of its owner/wielder (Enma, Devil Fruits merging with items, Going Merry, etc.). And Kaido stated that Haki is everything, which Oda wouldn't say something like that for no reason other than some bad ass line in the heat of the moment. So strong enough Haki can injure them. Mind you this is my interpretation from the past chapters involving the Iron Giant.
I honestly don't think it would be that strong because as strong as goofy is not to be able to damage it and for this Iron Giant to is crazy unless this is some kind of parallel to how strong we can expect people like Franky to get. It literally seems like the giant is powered by the drums of liberation and because Bonnie also became a Nika he got a super power amp
So this robot has no haki but can damage this monster what our actual Nika canāt? This means for me that luffy get an additional power to set damage on them.
maybe it's not that "Emet" is super strong, but rather that it was made to counter whatever ability allows the gorosei to be so durable and either indistructable or so easy to regenerate (?
Maybe they are just that physically strong by naturally and using armament haki just further improves their durability instead of being the only reason they are so hard
although since Haki comes from will and stuff, maybe the fact they all remember Emet bc it attacked mariejois kinda scared the Boar gorosei and that made his will weaken enough for him to get damaged(?
I imagine it feels like getting hit by a mountain. Wappol steel is new so the old material, while advanced, was probably still something between steel and aluminum. It likely wasn't even built as a fighter, but as a worker. So it's like sending a Caterpillar construction vehicle into a Demolition Dirby
Like, really strong
Up to 2.5 cola bottles strong- his hair didn't go flat.
The fact that VPs dream is to find an ultimate power source and Franky uses cola š
Because he is SO HARD BOILED
fuck i just made a comment exactly like this I thought iād be the only oneš
Ancient technology was already stated to be way more advanced than the current And the 20 kingdoms had to unite together to even have a chance against the ancient kingdom. So Iād expect Emet to be really strong yeah The present trying to catch up and surpass the past is already a theme in Egghead. So I wouldnāt be surprised if it was stronger than a Yonko. Though I doubt it would defeat someone like Kaido with one hit.
It's also reliant on the drumbeat of freedom to be powered as of now, making it kind of like an assist, you just can't put it out on the playing field forever. We've seen Kaido's ridiculous durability, so Esmet would require a Looooong duration of Nika's presence to be fully active and beat Kaido as far as we know.
The whole Drumbeat of Freedom thing makes me wonder if Franky could use the robot after this to upgrade the Straw Hats equipment, so whenever Luffy goes Gear they all get a power boost
And just like that Luffy becomes the bard of the group.
always has been
What about Brooke...
the more the merry-er
š¢
Brook is primary Bard. Luffy is primary Barbarian with Bard as a multiclass.
A bardbarian if you will
That's my DnD guy. Battle Bard Brad.
He's finally back up to a duet. He'll have his full band back by the end to play for the victory banquet.
Brook is College of Swords, he's using his inspo for damage.
basically melee Bard with mid range attack
Vegapunk himself has basically admitted he doesnt understand the robot's inner workings and understood its power source even less, so its doubtful Franky could do anything to upgrade SH equipment. We are due for various upgrades as it is, many chapters ago we see Jimbei bring all the stuff to the ship that Vegapunk had asked and we know Lilith will be on the ship. So surely we're in for a lot of upgrades using that with Franky/Lilith.
I donāt think it relies on the drumbeat, he was just sleeping till he heard it because he was waiting for joyboy
Emeth:"I sleep....."
This makes me wonder if having bonnie and luffy in gear 5 doubled its power
At bare minimum, it should be much stronger than seraphim, since those are modern technology.
do u think it might be as strong as Oars?
I honestly donāt remember how strong Oars was
So would the Gorosei match this massively superior powerlevel of the ancient kingdom? If they are \*\*this\*\* strong, I kinda feel there is a shitload of gaps in the story.
It definitely would not lmao wtf? A yonko is stronger than a robot that we have seen do shit all besides one punch, kaido 1000% beating it
White are you in the main sub
I donāt know what you mean
The ancient technology is far further ahead into the future than the current tech. This Robot is far more advanced than the Seraphim. Though I think the robot is perhaps humanoid, it has thoughts and self-awareness. It might be part of an ancient race.
Yeah, I just thought how could a robot have memory and awareness? But Kuma was also turned into a Cyborg, so it wouldn't be far off to have an ancient robot who was a human previously.
One thing to never forget is that "mass" exists, Emet is very heavy, so his punches are also very heavy. He is made of steel, potentially infused with sea stone, even if not he's certainly quite wet in that attack. We don't really know how warcury's durability works, but it might be possible that Emet was made to counter that with science.
Not to mention if he is a truly unfeeling robot when he hits Warcury he won't stop due to the pain of the impact and can keep a solid follow through
That too.
If mass existed in one piece, none of luffy's gear 3 and his most damaging gear 5 attack wouldnt have any power behind them.
Actually Doffy and Kaidou were confused about Luffy's rubber attacks because they shouldn't work like Luffy is using them. Also Gear 5 is even more powerful because of haki with internal damage.
No, it would work. Air has mass and you need a quite a lot of air for something as solid as Luffy, even if he is made of rubber, to get that inflated. Let's say the volume of a gear 3 fist was 10 cubic meters, just for the space taken by air. I don't want to assume any real measurements since this is One Piece and sizes aren't real and I'm feeling lazy. 1 cubic meter of air would weigh around 1.29 kg so the fist would have about 12.9 kg extra weight. Same amount in water would be 10 000 kg, so almost a hundred times more than the air. Since air is very compressible, it's mass per volume should climb pretty steadily with increased pressure. So let's say Luffy can hold about 10 times the normal air pressure, but I'm assuming much more since he can get sent flying by the deflation, but still. 129 kg fist isn't nothing to laugh at. Moving at half the speed of a boxers punch, 15 miles/h or 24,14 km/h that is a lot of mass coming straight at you at quite a bit of speed. Now since Luffy can punch at anime speeds, even with gear 3, that's A LOT of force. So for the power of the punches to match with rest of the universes physics, all the explanation needed is that Luffy fills them to be at very high air pressures. 10x atmospheric is already a lot when it comes at you fast enough.
> Let's say the volume of a gear 3 fist was 10 cubic meters I'm on your side here in terms of believing in the power of g3, but this is actually a hilarious underestimate when you refer to [the original g3 punch](https://imgur.com/ha4mkLo) which was easily over 200 cubic meters [as I calculated in my other comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1dwurak/just_how_strong_is_it/lbyl68m/)
Oh absolutely, I was just writing the comment and pulled the first number from my head that I knew wasn't an overestimate. I was thinking "That fist was damn huge, oh well I know it's at least larger than 10mĀ³."
I really don't think that the little extra mass of air (even at higher pressure) is worth it as trade off for the bigger impact area. Also bigger air resistance slows the punch down more than for his normal attacks. From a realistic standpoint, G3 is useless.
The impact area does matter, but not as much as you think. For someone being punched, the impact area can't grow more than the size of the person in question. Let's start with some random estimates. I'm gonna keep it pretty simple, let's not go measuring the the surface area of every persons body who has taken a gear 3 punch for a Reddit discussion. [The size of Luffy's fist and the rest of the arm are I'd say somewhere in the range of 25-30 cubic meters, but hard to say.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/3/37/Gear_3.png/revision/latest?cb=20230202005357) Let's go with 25 to be safer. That's 32.25 kg of air at atmospheric pressure and the weight of the arm, let's go with 5 kg. Total of 37.25 kg. A regular punch is intended to hit you and cause damage from direct impact to a weaker area which can't just absorb most of the impact. Dodging is priority number one and blocking secondary, because even if you do block a punch, it's still a multiple kg projectile moving quite fast. This is all in terms of a punch that does most damage on contact, not an anime punch where you make contact and then throw the punch AKA pushing with fists. So a punch of a boxer, according to google, can be about 776 pounds of force in a small area and can be from painful to lethal, depending where it lands. But for Luffy, let's first go with 1 atmo pressure. Mass was 37.25 kg and my first low balled speed of a punch was half of a boxers punch, but since Luffy sends out gear 3 punches by launching them, I'll go with 30 mph or 48,28 km/h. That's not very much, only 753,11 pounds of force average if the impact is about a meter, but 753110 if it's a millimeter. Gear 3 is hits like a punch in an anime, but let's go with the meter. So an equivalent of 753,11 having spread across most of your body for about a tenth of a second. Honestly, that's not bad and it's very close to the force of a boxers punch, but spread all over the body instead and if bracing for the impact correctly, it won't be much at all. But let's keep going. At two atmospheres of pressure or about how pressurized a car tire is, the mass of the punch is 69.5 kg. Stopping that within a meter would be equal to 1405 pounds of force average. That's still OK for the surface area, but I wouldn't want to be like Lucci and get stuck between that and a brick wall. But let's go further. Bike tire pressure can go up to 8.8 times atmospheric pressure. A fist with the mass of 332.8 kg at the speed of a boxers punch would be 6728 pounds of force over one meter. Now you DEFINITELY don't want to get between that and a wall, that's without a question a deathly punch if your back is against a wall. Now let's add some anime to the punch and increase the speed. Luffy tends to slingshot his punches so double the speed, double the force. Long story short, at normal speeds and regular boxer punch speeds, tanking the punch would be easy, but only if you can actually catch the impact. If you are standing with no grip to the ground, that shit is a 37.25 kg projectile coming towards you. Not much worse than falling over, so as long as the head doesn't hit the ground too bad, should be fine. But at even 2 times atmospheric pressure, it's about an average adult male weight coming at you running at 30 miles per hour or 28% faster than Usain Bolt. Or actually quite close to Usain Bolt running at you. I wouldn't want to get hit by Usain Bolt running at his top speed, even if it was a very direct collision. That's a lof of examples and I could go on forever. The point is, if 2 atmos is Usain Bolt body slamming you, with the speed of punches in anime and likely higher pressures, the potential energy can become insane. But getting hit by that while in mid air could potentially be fine, but they would launch you. With your back against a wall or the ground, you dead, except against maybe 2-3 atmos.
I only skimmed over anything, because your whole point falls flat at the assumption that he only has a 5kg punch without G3 and nearly 40kg with G3... You do realize that the weight behind a normal punch is MUCH higher? Because you put your body weight behind it as well. Even if you calculate with \~32kg air (which seems too high tbh), it does not increase the punch tenfold. It doesn't even double it most likely.
It's very clear you didn't read it since I at no point said that a real punch is 5 kg. I added the weight of a human arm to G3's weight. For the power of a real punch I used data I could find online for how hard boxers can punch. Because real punches are very complex to calculate, but there's no need to since the data is already out there. So everything you just said about the 5 kg is wrong. And for gear 3 calculations, I used the 5 kg as added weight on top of the air inside the inflated arm to make the calculations more accurate. And those numbers weren't the force of the punch, those were the mass of the fist. My reasoning for that is that Luffy usually throws the G3 punches, as in literally throws his fist, after which he can't put his body weight into it anymore as it's now stretching away from his body. This let's me calculate the power of G3 punches easier as I don't need to calculate the mechanics of a real punch and I can just focus on the moving mass and it's also closer to how Luffy uses G3. He rarely puts his body into a pushing force on contact. The anime isn't very accurate with that, he keeps somehow pushing punches that are stretching away, but manga doesn't really do that, so I chose to ignore that part from the anime. You CAN put your body weight into a real punch, but it's a good thing I wasn't calculating a real punch. Again, I googled that one. So if you want to read the comment and talk about it, then go on ahead, I'm willing to discuss it. But don't read two lines, misunderstand them and then comment like you know what I said. All the actual force numbers for G3 were in there. Go ahead, I gave my numbers, go check the math if you want.
That's Luffy though, he's doing reality warping all the time and most of what he does shouldn't work. Especially his gears. Mythical Zoans can be wacky And DFs in general are often just straight up reality warping.
Nah, that's why it's super odd and shouldn't work, multiple people couldn't believe he was actually stronger from doing that. It's Nika's special power, Luffy thought that blowing up his arm or muscles should work a certain way and the toon power of Nika made it work that way. That's also why everyone was saying it finally makes sense, because rubber doesn't work that way.
> Luffy thought that blowing up his arm or muscles should work a certain way and the toon power of Nika made it work that way. That's how devil fruits work. It's the way dinosaurs hunted in the ancient past.
Gear 5 is special and I suspect Luffy is **actually** increasing his body's basic mass for that (rather than filling with air) As far as Gear 3 goes, there's certainly a bit of "hahah manga logic", but the idea that has always made sense to me is that his bones are being stretched taut and therefore there is a far, FAR more solid "impact" to getting hit by gear 3 than his usual rubber attacks. Not to mention that air does have mass, it's just mass so low that it doesn't have "weight" (which is not mass) on earth. However, things like force and momentum equations rely on mass, not weight. So Luffy's weight doesn't go up (he'd measure the same on a scale since weight is set relative to local air density in addition to gravitational factors) when he uses gear 3, but his mass absolutely goes up. The mass of air is 1.29kg per cubic meter. The [original G3 punch vs Lucci](https://imgur.com/ha4mkLo) is about 3 times Lucci's height in two dimensions and, accounting for the conical effect back to his body, let's say only meaningfully 3 times Lucci's height lengthwise as well (I'm underestimating so you can get a minimum value for how much mass this is). Lucci is a little over 2 meters tall, let's round down to 2 meters. So currently we have 6x6x6 cubic meters of air, or 216m^3. This means it adds 1.29 * 216 = 278.64kg to Luffy's mass just from the air he pumps into it. If we assume he's usually punching like a professional boxer with his whole body weight behind it, he's only 64kg at base so he's actually multiplying his mass by 5.35x. Again, that's **at a minimum**. If we assume (because manga+his fruit logic) that Luffy can punch just as fast in g3 as in base form, then he's punching with over 5x as much force and momentum in g3 as in base, in addition to his bones being stretched taut to provide a less elastic collision. There's good reason for that punch to fucking hurt.
Mass is how much matter is in a certain volume. Luffy expanding his body parts in gear 3 is massively increasing the volume while the matter is staying the same, or increasing barely by being filled with air. Either way the mass drops tremendously. It's a manga full of retcons and silly logic so I have no idea why I am even arguing this or why you are trying to bring in half baked math. Oda isn't thinking about this nearly as hard as anyone in this comment chain. He is a silly goofy man that makes a silly goofy manga.
I... uh... I don't know how to say this nicely, but almost none of the things you said are correct. I'm even going to ignore how I disagree with you entirely on the physics of gear 3, I want to focus on how wrong you are on the concepts alone. >Mass is how much matter is in a certain volume. That's density. Density is how much matter is in a certain volume. Mass in simple terms is the amount of atomic mass an object has. The mass of an object doesn't change no matter how you stretch or modify it, unless you add or remove material. >Luffy expanding his body parts in gear 3 is massively increasing the volume while the matter is staying the same, or increasing barely by being filled with air. Either way the mass drops tremendously. Well, it doesn't stay the same. Air has mass. The mass of an object increases when you add air to said object. The only correct part here is that the volume increases when Luffy uses gear 3, but matter DOESN'T stay the same and it ESPECIALLY doesn't GO DOWN?! WHAT?! Mass increases! The apparent weight can go down when inflating an object, but that's due to buoyancy effects or temperature of the gas inside the object rising or lowering, which can also affect apparent weight. But just because you add mass and the apparent weight goes down, that doesn't mean the MASS has gone down. Mass and (apparent) weight are two different things, mass can go up and apparent weight can go down. Either way, mass never drops when you add mass, unless you cause a leak. >why you are trying to bring in half baked math. Because math is fun and eyeballing physics problems can be a lot of fun. Not the person you replied to, but their math was far baked than your arguments. This is One Piece reddit, what's wrong with doing stupid math for no particular reason to prove nothing of importance? >Oda isn't thinking about this nearly as hard as anyone in this comment chain. He is a silly goofy man that makes a silly goofy manga. Oda has been thinking about One Piece since he was a child. Romance Dawn wasn't just a one off comic that he threw together, he has been working on the concept since he was a kid. He has thought about these things probably more than anyone here. Does he get things wrong? Absolutely, but let's not kid ourselves, we can't match how much a workaholic spends thinking about their work. But you did say something that wasn't ridiculous in the middle of the message. >It's a manga full of retcons and silly logic so I have no idea why I am even arguing this It absolutely is. And I don't know either, I suggest you at least take a quick peek at the wikipedia page for the concept of mass before you argue that adding mass removes mass.
Yea I did read up on mass and I was wrong about that. Oda does think about the story no doubt, but he doesnt care about the real life math applications nearly as hard as the people in this comment chain. Oda has changed enough of the story, and just made shit up in sbs's that its OBVIOUS he isn't thinking as hard as the people making these calculations. He has things he cares about, and he has things he doesn't give a shit about. Nika is the perfect example. What nika is, what he represents, is exactly who I think oda wanted luffy to be, but nika himself as a concept? That shit was made up in wano or an arc before (I am betting on during wano)
> Oda does think about the story no doubt, but he doesnt care about the real life math applications nearly as hard as the people in this comment chain. Highly disagree. One of the changes Oda made to G3 over time was making the fist smaller, but he didn't make the amount of air super tiny. He started adding a [massive air bubble behind the fist.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/6/65/Gomu_Gomu_no_Elephant_Gun.png/revision/latest?cb=20230521134028) In general, the fist itself is much smaller when Luffy uses gear 3, but Luffy kept the air levels even. More proof that Oda does think about this kind of stuff is gear 4 in general. Bounce man vs. Snake man. Mass vs mobility. Bounce man has much more mass to play with for both defensive and offensive play, giving him room to bounce off more attacks and add more mass to his hits, but being that full of air makes his apparent weight low enough to make standing still difficult with the bouncy body. Snake man loses the bounciness but gains from having his feet on the ground. Less power, but much more control over his feet, which allows him more control over all. This is very relevant in real fighting, planting your feet for a punch let's you put more into it, but you keep on your toes when not going for an attack. >That shit was made up in wano or an arc before While I agree with the last paragraph, Oda doesn't just come up with that stuff in an arc or two. He does finalize concepts and make changes the closer he gets, from his own new ideas and due to editors suggestions. And while Nika might be a newer idea, warrior of liberation has been something he's been planning in some way or another since the whole series basically. Most arcs are Luffy liberating a country or people that are being oppressed, especially starting from Grand Line. Even Luffy's father is the leader of the revolutionary army. The concept might have evolved over time, but Nika wasn't a one or two arc idea. At most, he came up with the name that late, but Luffy and him being exactly what Nika is has to have been mulling over in his mind for a LOOOOONG time. Oda is a mangaka and he is very self deprecating. He says stuff like "he didn't think about that" quite a lot, but culturally I think he is often saying that jokingly. A very big difference between writers in the west and Japan is how heavily editors push the mangakas to study what they are writing about as well as the editors studying the concepts as well. Physics of gear 3 is absolutely something he thought a lot about. What he doesn't care about is to make the math accurate, since there's no need to know how big the fist needs to be to do a specific amount of damage. What matters is that the concept makes sense. Another great piece of evidence for that is how Doflamingo spent time laughing at gear 3, but then started analyzing it once he didn't look down on it anymore. He thought about the bounciness and the odd ways Luffy uses the air to his advantage. And the opposite would be Kaido trying to analyze Nika and getting nothing, because that form throws the rules out the window for creative freedom. Because that's the idea, it doesn't rely on logic, but creativity. And for gear 2, Oda explained it very specifically how and why it works when Luffy fought Bruno the same way gear 4 got analyzed by Doffy. He doesn't just throw concepts around, he definitely thinks about them A LOT. He just ignores the math for the specifics. In short, I agree that Oda probably doesn't get too deep into math of the physics, but he definitely thinks of the physics when coming up with how things work. The math is just us readers having fun with it. EDIT: Forgot to add, **massive** respect for acknowledging having been wrong and not deleting the comment. I'm happy knowing that I'm arguing with someone who isn't in it to fight about it. And sorry if I came off a bit aggressive in the first reply, I was moments away from going to bed and reading it back I was a bit too harsh there.
You thinking that One Piece is just a thrown together story where Nika "*was made up in Wano or an arc before*" pretty much invalidates everything you're saying. That's in addition to the rest of the nonsense you've espoused so far, including a comment on mass earlier when its clear you had no idea what you were talking about. Oda thinks very deeply about the elements he includes in the story. Does he also include silly elements? Yes. Has he made quick changes to things? Also yes. But your conclusion that he doesnt care nearly as hard as the people in this comment chain is both wrong and lazy.
I am sending positive vibes your way brother. You clearly need it.
You are legend.
Devil fruits are beyond physics though, they are powered by dreams and imagination. Luffy believes that a bigger fist equals more power and so even if he punches someone with the equivalent of a balloon, it does massive damage. Lucci and Doflamingo are both astonished by the way his powers work. All of his gears make a lot more sense if you look at them with Nika logic. And it's not just the Nika fruit, a lot of Zoans simply do not behave like they should (e.g. the giraffe or the dinosaurs). Some paramecias are also quite farfetched in their abilities (e.g. the string fruit or the paw fruit).
My point was, if logic applied, it wouldn't work. Thats it.
And his point was that an exception to that logic does not negate it in all cases. That's it.
That's not your point though, you are using Luffy's gear 3 to say that mass is meaningless in One Piece, which is clearly not true. Mass being tied to power is definitely a thing (see Usopp 5t hammer for example, Perona definitely believed he was gonna kill her). It's just that DF abilities completely ignore physics. Emeth's weight is definitely part of the strength of his attack.
> Doflamingo are both astonished by the way his powers work Who shouldn't be considering he also does crazy shit with his powers. Like, making entirely functional clones and organs out of strings? Cmon
I thought he was just stitching his organs with the strings, not "making" them.
Yeah he didn't make them out of scratch, but he also didn't just "stitch" them he also had to make some organ matter since they got heavily damaged by the counter shock. In the end it's just a nitpick.
When Luffy inflates his punches he is more like a truck tire than a balloon Imagine getting hit by that. It would obliterate you. Air will add mass, it really depends on how hard the material containing that air is and how much he can compress that air.
imagine warcury turning into a helicopter
It's about momentum
Mass definitely matters. Kidd demonstrated that. He broke Big Mom's arm by slamming a large heavy weight that she just couldn't hold back. He didn't break her skin or have more power than her, he just put mass x acceleration to work. He did the same thing to Kaido.
unless he never actually filled his body with air but fully expanded it.
Well, we now know that he's not a paramecia user but a sun god, so he can do whatever really.
That wouldn't add any matter. No matter how you look at it, his gear 3 attacks would do literally nothing. Its a manga though so I dont care.
You're assuming his body is as soft as a balloon. It's not. Nor is the air in him at 1 atmo, it's much higher pressure.
since hes nika i think hes actually getting bigger, or unconsciously toon forcing "big limbs mean more damage" if luffy was just inflating like a balloon then it wouldnt work
I think people are reading the power level of Emet wrong. I think Emet is powered by the same energy that made Saturn weak when he reached to close to the mother flame. After all, Vegapunk created the mother flame studying Emet. The Gorosei are weak to whatever were the power source of the ancient kingdom. I think maybe Luffy can eat the mother flame and from that point he will have the right power source to damage the Gorosei. It's a question of WHAT is damaging them, not brute force.
Where was it stated that the mother flame weakened Saturn?
Just speculating from Saturn reaction in 1114
It's probably more due to its radiance. It's probably extremely bright, like a small sun. Plus he didn't know it was in there.
>I think maybe Luffy can eat the mother flame and from that point he will have the right power source to damage the Gorosei Is this FairyTale?
The One Piece is just the things we ate along the way.
Maybe it is, my friend (F in chat)
Yes this is how I see it too. Luffy and co were able to keep up enough to not get bodied by the Elders, but even the heavy hitters couldnāt show any lasting damage. It makes sense the Emet has the power source that must be a weakness to whatever gives the elders there power, thus able to actually cause visible damage. I also like the idea that it was built with sea stone so it could be a hard counter that will make seastone relevant again after the introduction of haki kinda pushed it to the sidelines.
Still don't understand why Ussop didn't get seastone bullets...
Maybe they were too hard to make to be very common?
Then at least one seastone needle like hiyori had, something. I mean Wano makes the entire world's supply and they have enough to supply the world government with every ship getting it's entire bottom covered. Reality is Oda just realized it's too op. Same with logia's which is why haki was introduced.
It has to be. Kaido was built up as the strongest person to actively roam the seas. We as readers knew he isn't the final boss, but in the one piece world he was considered to be the strongest.
I don't know, I'm waiting for the next chapter to find out...
Emeth landed a hit on Warcury, yes. But Kuma, Bonney, Sanji, and Luffy have also landed hits on the elders. The elders can mysteriously recover after rough hits though. Iām certain that Kaido could have landed a huge blow on an elder, but the elder would just recover unless Kaido figured out how to do permanent damage. The reason Kaido wasnāt destroyed by the elders (who could obviously take him on in a 1v5) is the elders donāt want the world knowing their power unless itās absolutely necessary. Now is a time that revealing their power is less bad than the alternative (the alternative being the void century being revealed). The elders allowed the warlords and the emperors to exist because they werenāt worried about those groups revealing the void century, and those groups acted as free police to keep piracy limited. The marines primarily policed the four seas where the plebs live (most kingdoms associated with the original 20 country WG seem to be in the grand line), the warlords destroyed problematic upstarts in paradise, and the emperors got rid of anyone strong enough for the new world. I think the elders acquired the fourth road poneglyph after Roger so they arenāt worried about anyone else finding laughtale.
Regardless of whether or not they can recover from any injuries, my argument was about how Luffy could not deal *any* visible damage to Warcury (Even when using the same move that floored Kaido) while that robot could. Sure, he's probably going to heal that like nothing happened but I was mostly wondering how devastating that same punch would be towards BM or Kaido, characters that do not have that healing factor.
Luffy, Bonney, and Kuma all felt visible damage to an elder though, Saturn. Luffy landed what would be a fatal blow on Saturn if not for his recovery ability. Bonney dealt the first damage with a sword wound, and Kuma absolutely fucked him up before he healed.
I was under the impression that Warcury in particular had a much, MUCH tougher hide than the other 4 on top of also having the same healing factor as them.
Yeah Warcury has been stated to have a higher durability than Kaido by Luffy If it were any other Elder then it would be a different discussion, but because it is Warcury itās clear Oda is making a statement about how strong Emet is, that he was able to break the tusk when Luffy couldnāt do any damage like that.
Luffy has only done a gear 3 attack on Warcury in chapter 1112. Dorry and Broggy were able to deflect one of his attacks without much issue. I donāt think heās much stronger than the other elders.
Oh I don't think he is either. But he's an absolute tank compared to the other 4. That sword Bonney used to stab Saturn? Probably would break instead of actually going in. That punch Kuma gave Saturn not long after? He probably wouldn't even react to it.
Probably isnāt worth much in a fictional universe with characters we donāt know much about
But we know Warcury is abnormally resilient. That has been shown enough.
movijg characters has never meant being able to damage them. and luffy used gear 5 attack that logically would be using acoc.
He used gear 5 on Saturn, after which Saturn had to regenerate multiple limbs. He only used gear 3 on Warcury. If you donāt believe me go back a re-read chapter 1112.
mf how far back are you go read chapter 1114
Forgot about that one, but he literally has Warcuryās face smashed down in the panel where Luffy punches himā¦
no he literally does nothing but break his hand and than scream in pain because his attack isnāt doing anythinf
I think the goal isn't to reveal their powers, as if they had it thier way there would be no witnesses.
I'm calling it now, whatever the Iron Giant is made of it's the same as Wapometal
How? Wapolmetal is his own creation. It doesn't even exist before he ate things and mass-produced his dolls. Rather than wapolmetal, it's make more sense being something closely resembles wapolmetal.
I highly doubt it, but someone else could have eaten the fruit before Wapol and done the same thing. Again, highly doubt it.
WapoEmetal. The E was erased from history
Bro weāre reading the same manga as you how are we supposed to know?
Impossible to say at the moment. The Gorosei have gotten injured throughout the whole arc, but they can just shrug it off due to their regenerative power, so this hit means pretty much nothing, for all we know Warcury just got caught offguard by Emet.
its broke the tusk tho
Dory and Brogy outright decapitated Peter.
Kuma ripped off Saturnās leg by holding onto it and punching the rest of him away. Leg was growing back in literally the next panel.
Spider legs aren't super sturdy compared to boar tusks, but also, Luffy was always getting injured from hitting the forehead and certain boar species have notoriously tough foreheads. Luffy hasn't hit a tusk yet, as far as we know. So we're not yet sure that the robot is stronger than Luffy (but it probably is, for now at least) If the robot can smash in Warcury's forehead next chapter then he's the physically strongest being in the 'verse for now lol
Warcury and Saturn are different. Warcury has an established super toughness while Saturn is more vulnerable than him. Warcury is so hard that Luffyās rubber fists get hurt from punching him. u/Bluelore
~~Wasn't the big problem the intense heat that Warcury is emitting? IIRC Luffy was complaining how his hand got burned, not that he hurt his fist when he hit him.~~ EDIT: Nevermind, in the official translation Luffy comments on his toughness.
No, itās been commented on how hard Warcury is and we saw it twice. The heat you saw came from Luffyās Red Roc, the punch that hurt Kaidou.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Then you need to reread it. Because the official translation of 1112 comments on how hard he is. And in 1119, Luffy tells them how sturdy he is.
Dang you are right, the site I was using claimed it used the official translation, but it didn't. I do think Warcurys heat is also hurting him, but his toughness is certainly the main problem, so you are right that Emet is packing quite the punch here.
He's probably only tanky on his fiery part. I noticed dorry & brogy hurt him with their shield attack while attacking part
oh kinda like the Lunarians? that could be
itās likeā¦ pretty strong.
What if the fists of Emet are made of Seastone or have seastone properties imbued? That would nullify the absurd zoan strength to an extent
We don't even know if gorosei are df users yet.
They have devil fruit capabilities at the very least
Yeah but Warcury jumped towards the giant's ship not giving a shit about the sea
Probably because at that point it was critical to just stop them
Bros made of vibranium
Emet The Winter Soldier just chilling on a Winter Island until his next Joyboy mission.
As strong as the plot requires.
One panel and weāre powerscaling?
Post title: Shonen manga fans shocked when next opponent is more powerful than the earlier one.
emeth isnāt an opponent
yet
Itās powered by the haki that have been dormant for hundreds of years
Emeth:" I cultivated haki for hundreds of years secretly while sleeping,and punched the tusk out of elder face after awakening,at the start" FTW,cringe af.
We know nothing about the tech back then but I assume it had to be made to put up a fight for whatever reason. Teh tech was advanced for even today so based on that Emet has to be strong due to that technology we don't know about. Maybe there's a weakness of the elders that they had and the robot is made of. Hard to say.
Youāre assuming this is a matter of raw strength when it could absolutely be a matter of āEmet has something in it that counters the goroseiās powersā
Lemme guess, that thing is made entirely of sea prism stone and it'll rip a new one to every DF user it punches
I mean Emeth broke Warcuryās tusk and Luffyās Red Roc (which shook Kaido so much he was in his feels stacking Luffy against his top 5 [Roger, Rocks, Whitebeard, Shanks, & Oden]) did fuck all to him. So if the bot can do damage that Luffy cannot, he is pretty fucking strong.
Gonna be honest, I found it this whole deal of Luffy not being able to hurt Warcury really frustrating. We just got out of a huge saga where the villain was also suppose to be invencible and had Luffy doing one of the very rare training montage in One Piece to learn how to bypass this kind of hard skin, and now we have to deal with the same problem again?????
Over 9000 for sure
One Piece Rule #7: Big = Strong Big (+Horns) = Even stronger
Obviously endgame antagonists are gonna be stronger. It would be pretty boring if Kaido was the strongest enemy and now luffy just needs to beat people weaker than the guy he already beat.
Idk, non-named attack just a basic punch breaking the boars tusk... wait till Emet uses a named attack
Probably solos the Demon Slayer verse
Joy Boyās crew was probably strong. Itās cool to see a glimpse of that strength through the big robit
Honestly I think that it's more anti hacks than pure power
SUPERRRR~!
As strong as Franky would be if he were a giant and had seaprism stone weapons I guess
Bro punched the tusk off a gorosei š¤·āāļø
thatās more durable than kaido
Giant robot body + sea stone and/or sea water + drums of liberation + pent up emotion = puncha the piggy.
Strong
IM SORRY ITS CALLED EMET?!
It's OVER 9000 !
I keep saying Luffy Gear 5 has only been able to blow the 5 elders Here comes a real OG probably One of joy boys crew mate and shows everyone how the first pirate crew gets down.
Luffy is going to Looney Tunes at least a couple of the Gorosei, he beat Kaido with a combination of that and pure strength with G5 just newly unlocked, I'm expecting some full accordion mode out of Ju Peter at some point
Itās a hypetool bum that will get destroyed next chapter for sure
Maybe itās made of sea stone
Well, he's harder than w horned pig.
Mecha strong
I think youāre obviously correct, that or the robot had special properties that enables it to harm the elders
epic damage
Emet was part of JoyBoyās crew, so who knows
Not to downplay on Emet strength but every hits on Warcury, the boar is aware of an incoming attack and has time to defend himself but those hits still hurts him. This one is a surprise attack though and if Warcury recovers in a short time then to me Emet's punch is the same or a bit more as Kuma's punch to Saturn.Ā
Powerscaling is a curse. I wonder why.. in real life we don't measure strength like that.. and even so we see all the time duels in fighting sports with one losing then winnijg in a revenge match.. they grow stronger, then weaker, etc. The final attack Luffy did on Kaido certainly was stronger than anything he tried on the gorousei up to now. And even if that's debunked later.. Ah.. who am I kidding I will never be able to convince powerscalers about this they soeak a different oanguage than I do. Yeah yeah the iron giant is the strongest thing on one piece now eh whee.. There.
Y'all on some high amounts of copium lol. Luffy attacks Warcury's head which is clearly tougher than rest of his body parts. And he did it twice despite not being able to damage him on the head the first time. The rest of his body parts like his face or horns are clearly damagable and not as hard as his head. It's as simple as that. Someone tanks one or two hits and people go comparing them with Kaido or Big Mom smh.
Topman: YES
I think everyoneās forgetting just as how Bonnie was first revealed in this arc as a child. Emeth emerged from **seawater** and struck Mercury. Maybe just maybe thereās a correlation there hmmm
Really strong, I guess
its the tusk not the skin?
the move is called Rage Fist, a Ghost type attack, and power base on how many times it got hit, therefore it is super effective to the undead ghost type old geezer :P
Clearly stronger than current Gear 5 Luffy, because every time he's tried to punch Warcury, Warcury's passive flaming skin burns him badly
We dont know. We will discover There are things about this scene way more important Power level of things are shallow, do yourself a favor and start exercising not thinking about power level You are welcome The scene was cool
42 units of strongness.
The art is sick!!!
From what we know, Emet was one of the few main allies Joyboy had. Joyboy is surely much stronger than current gear 5 Luffy, so his first mate should be as well
Nice catch. I would say so. Even though we spend so much time here saying Oda doesn't care about powerscaling, he does in his own way...
My thought is that theyāre weak against pure physical strength and heal from damage from DF and Haki hence why they exterminated the Buccaneer race and fear the giants which will be pure strengthā¦. Robot is what it isā¦ robot
Its power is definitely over 9000.
Well let's do alil scaling mr3 > dorry & broggy and they are on attack level par with gorusai so surely the robot is as strong as mr3 I reckon :)
I don't think the elders are each as strong as a yonko. I think they are just exceptionally durable. As we see luffy holding multiple elders back, we also see Zoro block a hit from one and not end up half dead like he did with kaido.
Warcury's weakness is just metal and only because Eustass Captain Mid needs some kind of purpose for the endgame
Very.
I believe the Iron Giant runs purely on Haki. It has been shown many times that inanimate objects can inherit the will and/or soul of its owner/wielder (Enma, Devil Fruits merging with items, Going Merry, etc.). And Kaido stated that Haki is everything, which Oda wouldn't say something like that for no reason other than some bad ass line in the heat of the moment. So strong enough Haki can injure them. Mind you this is my interpretation from the past chapters involving the Iron Giant.
Even Luffy couldn't do any visible damage to the elders. That robot comes out of the water full force swing and already broke a tusk
Probably some ancient form of Haki or Technology
I honestly don't think it would be that strong because as strong as goofy is not to be able to damage it and for this Iron Giant to is crazy unless this is some kind of parallel to how strong we can expect people like Franky to get. It literally seems like the giant is powered by the drums of liberation and because Bonnie also became a Nika he got a super power amp
So strong!
strong enough that warcury messed around and found out.
Think the most likely explanation is this means nothing for powerscaling and Oda thought it made for a dope panel.
Why are you trying to compare these with kaido or bigmom?
So this robot has no haki but can damage this monster what our actual Nika canāt? This means for me that luffy get an additional power to set damage on them.
It's a strong punch for sure but in this pic there was no time to regrow. We will see if this is a permanent damage or not
Iād sayā¦pretty strong (probably)
I think Shanks vs Kidd puts in perspective Kaido and BIG Mom. If any of them attacked either of them head on the results would be similar.
maybe it's not that "Emet" is super strong, but rather that it was made to counter whatever ability allows the gorosei to be so durable and either indistructable or so easy to regenerate (? Maybe they are just that physically strong by naturally and using armament haki just further improves their durability instead of being the only reason they are so hard although since Haki comes from will and stuff, maybe the fact they all remember Emet bc it attacked mariejois kinda scared the Boar gorosei and that made his will weaken enough for him to get damaged(?
I imagine it feels like getting hit by a mountain. Wappol steel is new so the old material, while advanced, was probably still something between steel and aluminum. It likely wasn't even built as a fighter, but as a worker. So it's like sending a Caterpillar construction vehicle into a Demolition Dirby
Camera pans down to the robotās lower back where a mysterious inscription reads in an unknown language: ā*Made in America* šŗšøā