i completely agree. thankfully not on twitter but i’ve seen the same shit on tumblr and it’s pretty frustrating. if you’re upset about izzy, that’s okay! but don’t be a dick to other fans and the freaking CREATORS about it.
Unhinged fans are acting like DJ killed Con himself.
And then getting angry at Stede and Ed fans for no reason. THE SHOW IS BUILT AROUND THEIR CHARACTERS AND THEM AS A COUPLE.
Let's get some perspective here.
Also, why act like we have to pick Team Izzy or Team Ed/Stede?! We can like all of them! We can be happy for one and sad for the other, they’re not mutually exclusive
Unhinged fans acting like DJ looked at them PERSONALLY and was like “ah yes a happy gay disabled person - I’m here to ruin YOUR life today”
As if the only logic/reason to complete an obvious character arc was to hurt them. Personally. It’s so messed up.
This makes me so sad. People turned on DJ so fast. I knew this was a risk since the first season was a such a huge success and then the hype for the second season was real. I was honestly worried it would be a complete dumpster fire. But tbh I thought it was pretty good!
I think DJ probably knew killing off you-know-who would make a lot of people mad. DJ had so much to live up to in the second season, it could have been all fan pandering but he wrote the story he wanted to write. I’m glad he made what he wanted. I think that’s always better than trying to make something based on what fans want.
I think what makes me the most sad is that this fan community was once one of positivity and support. We followed and supported all the actors and people who worked on the show and they seemed to really enjoy that and loved working on a show everyone loved so much. Now I worry it’s just going to turn toxic and negative like so many other fandoms I’ve been part of.
I remember he made a tweet once in response to fans calling him Dad, to the effect of, he was looking forward to fulfilling the role by one day disappointing them. I'd like to think he was at least mostly braced for this. I feel vicariously stressed for the creators.
just saw someone on twitter who is mad abt Izzy’s death ragging that they can’t be excited about two straight men pretending to be gay kissing (stede and ed) and then also posting good omens. like that is also two straight men kissing, i assume if GO s3 doesn’t go the way they want they will also come to hate them as well.
it just feels so much like people getting way too invested to the point of forgetting that art is not created via a direct link to your specific tastes
Ah yes, one of my favorite internet folks- "my old man yaoi is better and less problematic than your old man yaoi"!
I'm joking, most of those people are teens and young neurodivergent people (I say as a young ND person) who are processing their favorite shows in the only way they know how. 99% of them will look back on this and either cringe or laugh.
People spent a year reading and writing their own version of fan fic and can’t take the ACTUAL writer telling his own story. The fandom let me down today fr.
Some of these “fans” are the worst. They are really fans. They fancy themselves as the show runners and get mad that their fan fics ideas don’t make it into cannon. It’s not just OFMD fans. They are everywhere.
This is literally it. They’re so absorbed with the stories they were writing in their own heads that they didn’t bother paying attention to the actual story playing out on screen. The finale was the *perfect* resolution to every narrative thread they’ve been building since the beginning of the show. I get being sad when your favorite character dies, but it was so beautifully and meaningfully done. To shit all over it because it’s not what you wrote in your fic is so incredibly entitled and ungrateful.
Likewise. I like to read spoilers so I can mentally prepare myself. I was very concerned given how everyone was going on about it, but then I watched it and I actually really enjoyed it. I cried a little when Izzy died, and then I felt that sort of empty feeling that I always feel when a show I love comes to an end (I know there might be a season 3, but the writers wanted to be sure to give us a good ending just in case, which I really appreciate).
I get it that it sucks when a character you love dies, but these people really need to chill the fuck out.
Also, this show has no basis in the laws of reality. If there is a 3rd season, I am sure that Izzy will be back in one way or another, because that's just the type of show it is. Buttons turned into a seagull, for goodness' sake.
i can't really believe the way some people treat this show so seriously i mean this is the show with a scene of an honest to gods piano falling on a man, it's like looney tunes with queer pirates
The first season of the show was revolutionary to me. It gave me such a confidence boost, and helped me find the courage to publicly embrace myself and come out. It means a lot to a lot of people, and I get that. But it's also ridiculous. It's campy, it's silly, it's illogical, it's fun. It doesn't take itself too seriously, even when it does. Even in the heavy moments, it is fantastical and improbable. It wouldn't be the same show if it wasn't these things.
I think shows like this have to be silly to really resonate, you know? The only other piece of media that has given me the same high recently is The Rocky Horror Picture Show - which is also ridiculous, campy, fantastical, and unashamedly weird. Things like that and OFMD speaks to those of us who are also misplaced, goofy, and strange because they are those things too.
I swear that some people have forgotten that, and seemingly have forgotten what drew them to the show in the first place.
Sorry for the rant. I am just annoyed.
nah no need to apologise, i feel exactly the same... i'm an autistic bi transman who's obsessed with horror movies and sanrio characters, i've been a sily weirdo all my life and i LOVE that this show can embrace everything that makes me who i am, but i also respect what it is and what djenkins wants it to be! i trust his "vision" and i'm just excited to be a part of the ride
I'm an autistic, asexual, maybe non-binary-ish woman. I never really felt like I fit in anywhere. This show showed me it's okay to be a weirdo, and through it, I found a lot of people who are also weirdos who never fit in anywhere. I love that.
I really, really hope we get a season 3, because I want to see what is next. Even if we don't, I am really glad the show came into my life, and it sounds silly to say, but I really don't think I would be who I am becoming without it. Nothing will ever be able to take that away. I am really glad that David Jenkins became obsessed with this weird little pirate that his wife told him about, and that he decided to write a story about him, and that he was able to share that story with us. It has brought me so much joy (even if the Fandom is currently not bringing joy lol)
Also like, IT’S ABOUT PIRATES!! They live short violent lives. Someone gets stabbed in literally every episode!! But somehow every character was going to ride off into the sunset with the gay love of their lives and die in their own beds at the age of 80 with a belly full of wine and a mouth around their(…you know the rest)?? Really? Every single one? If that’s had happened, half the fandom would’ve been wingeing that it wasn’t “realistic.” (Which, it’s not, but it’s got to TRY to stay at least slightly on theme.)
Right? I just finished episode 8 a few minutes ago (after scrolling past this sub all day trying not to read post titles and only half succeeding) and I'm quite perplexed now.
Fandom in general can be like this, I'm so used to it by now that I just distance myself whenever things get like this. Just going to re-watch the show again and again, and love it on my own so no one can sour it for me (which tends to happen if I don't step away soon enough). Because I love this show, it's fantastic and I'm so grateful it exists.
These negative reactions from the fandom were my biggest fear regarding season two, it's sad to see them come alive. I was so looking forward to get into discussions, tumbler deep takes etc., but for now I'll just leave them be and just rewatch on my own.
Twitter is a cesspool and honestly some of the worst of fandom. Though most of my bad encounters there have been with Izzy haters and not Izzy fans, but it’s just general a rotten place. Haven’t participated in fandom there since Musk took over and kinda grateful for it.
Another reason for Jenkins et al to write the show THEY wanna see, not the show they assume we wanna see. Like we can be in their heads but we shouldn’t be the runs running the ship. Let’s not support a mutiny of such a brilliant show.
The negativity that's been around constantly this past week has been *a lot*. And it's been happening right here too, even though I feel people don't try to police others nearly as much as other platforms.
I'm actually so happy with this season despite its flaws and instead of talking about all the great things about it, it's post after post after post after post of people saying they either hated or are so disapointed by the season.
Like, I get it and I don't blame them for having an opinion, but it's so disheartening and draining because they are SO loud.
Like fuck, it's so sad to see. I love this season and here I am sad about it.
Same. I loved this season more than the first, I’m sad that it’s been so divisive. I’m sad that others are giving the creators the impression that we’re disappointed.
Yes, pulled the words out of my mouth right there. I hope the crew will see that many of us are happy with s2, despite the loud voices telling them the contrary.
i'm in the same boat! i had some issues with parts of season 2, but i had issues with season 1 too. but yeah overall i loved the good majority of season 2 and there were SO many good moments. i love that it was darker, but i also found it funnier than ever. i think rewatching it will only strengthen my love for it. and if there is a season three, god willing, i think a lot of the issues i did s2 would go away once we see it as part two of a three-act play.
most of all i just really, really need more of these pirates. 🥺 i hope djenks wants to make more, and our executive overlords will let him.
All the same! I think because I kind of believe that S1 has a Stede filter all over it (campy, positive, very unserious) and S2 an Ed filter (darker, sharper humour, and sudden turns like his mind), the flaws almost make sense in a way, and I can push them aside a little.
I can't wait to rewatch from s1 and see how it flows!
Crossing my fingers for S3.
Personally I have a hard time with feeling second hand embarrassment for a character. And lord knows that season 1 has a LOT of those moments for poor Stede 😅 I think it’s one of the reasons why I prefer S2. Besides Zheng beating him up, there aren’t any scenes that I had to watch through my fingers. It was lovely to see him grow more confident in his skills (and lack of).
I’ve been in enough fandoms at this point that while it’s fun to have cast and crew be open with fans — fans will start to think they are “betrayed” when things don’t go their way. I’ve seen it happen in fandom after fandom, it’s ridiculous.
Same. Yesterday when cast and crew started making their accounts private, I realized the days of cast being available and celebrating the fandom are probably over.
I saw multiple comments on Twitter yesterday from fans saying they’re going to *ill themselves because the character died. I’m shocked by this extreme reaction, and I’ve been a fangirl for years.
I think they are fans - but they are a different kind of fan. They make art and fic and have discord channels dedicated to their theories and their interpretation of the show. That's fairly standard super fan stuff and can be a lot of fun- but I think the problem is that their Fanon did not line up with Canon. To them, the fanon is the most fun part of the show, so for the show to break their Fanon...it will take them time to process probably.
It doesn't excuse the lashing out obviously - I hope they don't try to ruin it for everyone because it was ruined for them.
I'm also confused because it is implied in story and directly by Jenkins that this is not the end of Izzy's story...there's a good chance Izzy's true end is bound to be very different if we get the opportunity to see it.
Also, nothing is stopping those writers or artists from continuing to create fanom they love. If they were worried about it being canon, they wouldn’t draw the pairings they do.
yeah exactly. I think they will have this period of intense upset and then hopefully find their way back. That seems to be the pattern in fandoms anyway (and I have done it before!!)
People are being such dicks about this show. It's perfectly fine to be disappointed, or to not like how things were handled, but people are taking this shit way too far.
I feel like discussions about Ed & Stede have been completely sidelined because of this, which is wild because they're the main characters and the story is about them and there was a LOT of great progress in this season about their relationship development and internal struggles. Izzy is a great character but he's a side character....he's always been the foil to the main 2 so his end makes sense even if people don't like it. And the harassing of the staff just turns my stomach tbh...
This is it for me. I think Izzy’s a great character to have in a show like this and Con did a fantastic job. As a UK viewer Con is a highly respected actor here and is always in a number of tv shows due to his talent. Izzy’s death made perfect sense to me as whilst I can see the rest of the crew eventually retiring and helping with the Inn it wouldn’t have worked for Izzy.
However, this is a show about Ed and Stede and their love for each other. They are the main couple and it’s their story that is being told. I really hope we get a season 3 as this is my favourite show ever made, followed my Frasier.
The whole cast is great, with Frenchie being my favourite crew member and I have loved season 2. Taika and Rhys have been fantastic this series and they deserve a final series they can talk about when the companies pay them fairly and stop being arseholes!
Fans on twitter can be so awful and give a bad name to the fandom. The writers, crew and cast have given so much to us and it must be so awful for them to read some of the vile. I also think Con wouldn’t be happy after saying how much the show has done for him in his life. You see it with other shows like Heartstopper, when something doesn’t go their exact way they get aggressive and abusive.
This show is about being kind so I hope some of them remember that.
Thank you! I watched last night and was blown away by the Ed/Stede romantic everything. It's so perfect and beautiful, I could write an essay about them. My heart feels like it's being squeezed in a good way... anyway then I go on Reddit to see if other people are as ecstatic as me about them finally getting it on, and I find that apparently no-one else even cared about Ed and Stede because of Izzy. I thought Izzy's death was very well done and I have been so impressed by Con O'Neill's acting, especially in S2, he really showed raw feeling going through a whole bunch of stuff and finally found peace, it was lovely... but to let his death ruin the show for you?!? I don't get it. People die in TV shows, it's a pretty common plot point. If Ed or Stede had died I would maybe understand (though not to the point of hurling vitriol at DJ, I'm an adult). But Izzy was a side character. Honestly I know I sound like an old person but I feel sorry for folks who can't appreciate or understand beautiful things because somehow they are so terrified of being offended or made to feel extreme emotions. It's part of life, people. Allow yourself to feel feelings. It's OK. Surely the show teaches us that...?
I might be overthinking it but I feel like a lot of people are just upset at the death of a character they loved (valid, it’s ok and even good to be moved by fiction) but for some reason feel the need to justify that feeling through some other route, either that it was morally wrong for writers to do or just bad writing etc, I think people need to learn that sometimes things they didn’t want to happen do happen, including in fiction, and they can be moved by that without turning it into vitriol against the people who moved them (the creaters etc)
My hot take is that over the past "some number of years" people have begun to see the movies and the television they watch almost exclusively through the lens of a consumer. The reaction people have is "I didn't get the *product* I wanted and that's unacceptable".
I know that there's been elements of this pre-modern media. Famously Sherlock Holmes's creator had such an aggressive fan campaign against him he was basically forced to make more. I definitely feel though that some combination of social media, our ever worsening capitalist hellscape, and the more and more sophisticated media apparatuses of large production companies has led us to this point where people feel personally wronged when someone's art doesn't go exactly how they pictured it.
The idea that art can be made *not for you* is becoming more and more unpalatable to people in this age of hyper capitalist media production. Either this idea will fade over time or it will get more and more prominent and art will become more and more bland.
I think the fact that it’s an upbeat queer show—one of the ONLY upbeat queer shows—is also causing tension.
So many people have shared that it feels like a comfort show to them, which places a lot of pressure on the creators to heal some sort of generational queer trauma of poor media representation. That’s a lot.
There’s also the fact that the queer fan base has such a diverse array of identities and experiences that we want to see reflected on the screen, but there are only so many cast members, only so many episodes, and only so many directions in which the story can go.
I was so worried about this vitriolic reaction that I started to get nervous every time someone called it a comfort show, because I knew something heartbreaking would have to happen and many who saw the show itself as a safe space would revolt.
It’s such a beautiful piece of art, and successful art inspires strong reactions no matter what they are. I hope that’s something that DJ and the crew can take away from this. For better or worse this show strikes a cord in the deepest parts of so many people, and that alone makes it a success.
> So many people have shared that it feels like a comfort show to them, which places a lot of pressure on the creators to heal some sort of generational queer trauma of poor media representation. That’s a lot.
I think you’re absolutely right. And I think it’s such an unfair expectation to put on a creator, and on yourself. Like, I 1000000% get finding immense comfort and delight and all those warm fluffy emotions from shows. But unless the show is finished, and static, its impossible for a show to be exactly what you want it to be. It’s definitionally impossible for creators to satisfy everyone so putting the show in charge of your emotional regulation is such a doomed effort. A creator will (or at least should) always make art they want to make. That’s a recipe for disaster if you demand it be something specific and tailored to your wants.
this is a really interesting point that i hadn’t considered! i think this really gnarls it’s claws in with the parasocial nature of having direct access to your favorite show’s cast/crew on twitter.
personally, i always hated that on twitter, if i made a tweet about an actor, it was possible they would see it because both actors and fans were on twitter (as opposed to tumblr where it was a LOT more silo-ed and you weren’t just going to run into an actor on tumblr). and it happened once or twice that by nature of using a name or a phrase that the creator of something I tweeted about liked my tweet about their art. oh how it icked me out, I was like you stay over there and make stuff and I’ll stay over here and consume and we will never touch lol
anyway tangent over, i think a lot of people think that because David Jenkins liked their tweets about loving izzy that he was going to treat the character the way THEY would treat the character, and felt personally betrayed when he stood by his artistic choices.
To your point about capitalism too, I think a lot of people feel like their time has been wasted on a show if it doesn’t behave exactly how they want it to. (Like people who won’t watch a show unless they can ship—I remember this being VERY contentious when the show Chernobyl came out, for reasons you can probably imagine)
people when their very specific vision they have of the show doesn't happen and instead the creators manage to surprise them&create ground breaking scenes but it's not 100% what they wanted: >:(
Seriously, I feel like I went through the five stages of grief over how Netflix ended Voltron, but did a hunt down the creators and harass them? NO. people need to grow tf up.
Voltron was a show I only watched because Rhys Darby was in it. He’s the reason I started watching OFMD. I agree these people need to grow tf up and understand how scripted shows work. Someone was going to die this season and they would have gotten angry no matter who it was because some people live for that anger. And it’s immature.
Funnily enough Voltron was my intro to Rhys! I'd heard him in passing elsewhere but never actually latched onto his voice/acting before that. Definitely a highlight of the show. <3
For me the first time I saw him was in the Jumanji movie but he also played Yvette Nicole Brown's weird robot sidekick on a goofy gameshow for kids that was kind of hilarious. I was assigned to closed-caption the thing and he made me laugh quite often.
Oh my Dog yes!
Because what the writers actually wrote did not fit their elaborate long standing head canons of What ABSOLUTELY SHOULD and WOULD happen! They are now being Uber dramatically salty and proclaiming the whole show is trash!! And we have all been Queer bated! CRUELLY TRICKED! DJ is a hack!
It reminds me of ages ago when the Sherlock Fandom managed to queerbait themselves and then were super mad when Sherlock and John didn't become a couple at the end. They literally thought that the creators were sending them coded messages about it.
Oh, or the people who claimed that WWDITS is queer bait because Nandermo hasn't happened. Never mind that every single character is queer and most of them have had sex with each other.
These types of fans are so exhausting.
I watch WWDITS and I NEVER understood the Nandermo fans but I’m scared to say it anywhere else 😅. Same with Izzy: I love him (RIP my man) but come on, a throuple with Ed and Stede? Seriously? It’s one thing to make up a fic with what you wish would happen but nowhere in the show was it even hinted that it could be a thing. I swear it takes ONE Tiktok montage and people will suddenly start misreading stuff just to fit their narrative.
I am a Nandermo shipper, but I also *really* enjoy it with just tension and subtext.
I would have been so mad if Izzy became part of a throuple with Stede and Ed. I love them all and I have no problems with polyarmory, but I really would have hated that because it would not have made any sense *at all *.
I was so hoping for an Izzy/Lucius/Pete throuple to happen! Omg! 😭 And I think Nathan was as well! But Izzy’s end was beautiful in its own way. And I’m glad that it was used to signify a new life for Ed.
There was definitely deliberate tension between Izzy and Lucius in a few scenes. And I could see Pete transferring his Blackbeard awe to someone who didn't try and murder Lucius.
I had a Steddy Hands fan yell at me because I told him there was no way that's where the show was going.
Just because it happens in fanfic doesn't mean there have been ANY clues as to the show wanting to do a throuple between Ed, Stede, and Izzy.
I can understand wanting to be represented and really really wanting to see romantic chemistry.. but creating things in your head esp when the writers have given absolutely no indication of a romance or even said nothing like that will happen and then getting irate is just hurting yourself.
Like, with Sherlock, the literally created a scenario and then got mad when it didn't happen. The show was queer-baity as hell so I get the frustration with that, but they literally went insane.
Writers don't owe you things just because you consume their creations. They have been kind enough to share their work with you. You don't get to demand things from them. (Not you specifically, of course, but "you" meaning this particular type of fan)
To be fair, the last episode of Sherlock was terrible for reasons other than the johnlock conspiracy.
There is real quality in the storytelling here and I’m upset by the number of people who are trying to make their opinion into a self righteous proclamation of morality and so-called bad writing.
Oh, the last episode of Sherlock absolutely was, but that's a different conversation.
For the most part, the writing this season was great. I loved how everything was mirrored from the first season. There were some things I wasn't too big on, but that's whatever. They need to realize that enemy here was Max cutting their funding, not the writers deciding to tell their story.
It's embarrassing how some folk interact with the media they consume. I have my own critiques of the show but I do with just about anything I watch or listen to. But these aren't my characters or my story and I'm not the one that gets to make the call. Some fandoms are downright pathological.
I remember when the fandom ran Con off Twitter back when S1 aired. Then went after Rhys and I think even his wife too over something dumb. The OFMD fandom is one step below Heartstopper, since at least they didn’t force anyone to come out about their sexuality.
Having public figures being able to interact with on social media was huge mistake, the parasocial becoming crippling toxic for these teenagers online.
> I remember when the fandom ran Con off Twitter back when S1 aired. Then went after Rhys and I think even his wife too over something dumb.
That pisses me off. Rhys must be the nicest guy on the planet. And now everyone loves Con and Izzy and are freaking out over losing both.
I have a lot of problems with season 2, i can also recognize that being mad at this show for "burying it's gays" is one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard. Not only that but Izzy is not the only disabled character in the show, pete, Jackie, lucius, are all visibly disabled.
I also think a lot of the people ranting about this kind of forgets that when it comes to portraying disability, Mathew Maher isn’t acting, his cleft palate is just part of who he is. And it’s not played for laughs, or even commented on. That’s really something when it comes to representation, IMO.
My 0.02 on the crux of the disability factor: We meet Pete, Jackie, etc. as characters who already have a disability, have made peace with it and it's now simply a part of them. Indeed, I didn't even know Mathew Maher had a cleft palate until someone mentioned it. Not only that, they continue to live, love, grow and thrive.
Izzy was denied that opportunity. With his character, we also got a front seat view of what happens when a formerly abled bodied person suddenly becomes disabled. The pain, the grief, the suicidal impulses, the rage, the slow adaptions and acceptance of a new reality. (Having a crew who loved/supported him/made him their Unicorn also makes a world of difference).
Just as he reached the point of finding peace with his disability and himself as a whole, he gets killed off. A bit rough, no?
As someone who became disabled only a few years ago, Izzy's story hit pretty close to home.
Very good point, I do wish Izzy could have gotten more time to be happy with himself as he was. I also wish they had examined Pete losing a finger more, you'd think a scribe/artist would be more emotionally affected by losing a finger. My general opinion is that Izzy was meant to die from the start, he's a pirate through and through and in a story set at the end of piracy there was no other life for him. Seeing him die in season 3 would have been mroe satisfying to me. But you make a good point that I hadn't considered.
> Just as he reached the point of finding peace with his disability and himself as a whole, he gets killed off. A bit rough, no?
I mean yeah but life just isnt fair sometimes. Should this be a fairytail ending where everyone has a paradise ending? Izzy got to accept who he was before he died which is more than some people get
So glad I deleted twitter
I do love Ep8 but it's still fresh in mind so I would be lying if I said I wasn't salty about Izzys death and the rushed ending. I'm hoping that we get S3 and it's more slower paced and exploring character relationships in depth
thank you for this post 😭 i am part of the people who were disappointed with izzy's fate and the general pace of the show due to the cuts, but twitter surprised me so negatively with how feral people are acting over there.
i actually came to check this subreddit to get some room to talk about this amazing show outside that violently negative space, and im glad to see people have been keeping themselves respectful and kind over here, honestly. it feels like an unexpected breath of fresh air
Actually no, he didn't betray his crew. He was separated from them after receiving his injury but still got caught after the authorities went on their anti-piracy campaign. He was made to stand trial but only testified about the corrupt officials who collaborated with Blackbeard in exchange for his and his crewmates' lives. Teach and Bonnet were already killed before his capture, and the rest of the crew was already in captivity with him, so calling it a betrayal is an absolute stretch.
Didn’t he say in s1 that if they survived to eke out one more day, he’d offer his 🖕🖕 resignation? Death could be considered the most permanent resignation of all 😳
(Sorry that’s super dark but I couldn’t help myself- I felt inspired to be a little contrarian by your comment 😅)
Of course I would have preferred Izzy becoming Captain of the Revenge, but I thought they handled his death well and overall I am very happy with how it ended. Especially with the Seagull landing on Izzy’s grave marker at the end. And I was thrilled that decided to Ed and Stede decided to be Inn Keepers for a while. Really hope there is a season 3 to see how that goes.
I’m not going to pretend I’m happy about it because I’m not, but anyone who is actually going after the creators with vitriol or letting this ruin the entire show for them is unhinged.
The reason I’m so upset is because DJ and co are absolutely brilliant writers and made me care so bloody much about a character who by all means I shouldn’t have gotten so attached to. I’m distraught but I’m also acutely aware of the storytelling genius it takes to touch a strangers soul like that.
I’m going to miss Izzy (and, more importantly, Con) so much but ALSO!!! We got TWO kisses, a love letter, AND the inn. It’s bittersweet for sure but there are definitely amazing things to focus on
I hate when fandoms let the parasocial attachment to an actor ruin their whole experience when something happens to their character 🙄 then they make it everyone else’s problem
This! I have my fandoms and hyper-fixations, but some people take it to an unhealthy, should consider calling their therapist level. It’s quite concerning.
Let's say I'm disappointed but not surprised. I've seen the necessary fandom dramas over the years, and you sort of hope people will be able to let it go in some other way. It's completely understandable if you're upset by the show, but for the love of god, don't harass other people over it
I was def devastated that Izzy died, mostly because of Con’s amazing performance this season. HOWEVER, I’m in quite a few OFMD groups and the people are carrying on and saying how they “didn’t sleep”, were “weeping all day”, had to “call into work”…to me that is insane. It’s a show at the end of the day, no reason to get that carried away. We should be happy to have witnessed such brilliant acting from Con, even if his character got killed off (tho I’m low key hoping that somehow he gets written back into season 3 via some magical insanity).
I do wish for a season 3, and that we can get a better fleshed out understanding of this new relationship between Stede and Ed. I have the utmost love and respect for Jenkins and everyone else who worked on the show!
I'm brand new to the fandom. Literally binged s1 and s2 in the days before the finale. I can totally understand why people are upset about Izzy, but isn't that kind of the point? This show made us attached to these fictional characters and feel emotions about them. Sadness and mourning is a normal response to the death of a character you care about. The fact that we feel that way speaks to how well written Izzy's character is and how great the acting performance was. It's sad that it had to be Izzy, and I get that he means a lot to a lot of people, but he also had an amazing character arc and was seemingly content with the end of his life. The writers had a plan for Izzy's story and this is the story they wanted to tell. Sometimes TV shows are gut wrenching. And it sucks. But it's better than having no emotional connection to a cast of characters and not caring about them. Also, I feel like one of the major points made about pirating in this universe is that it's dangerous and traumatizing and unpredictable. Anyone could die or get hurt at any time. It would be too plot armor-y if we made it this far without anyone dying in battle. I love the show and the fandom, but I can't stand it when people are hateful toward the creatives behind the media they love to consume because the story they wrote isn't what they wanted.
Insufferable twats. Their crybaby tantrums this afternoon basically spoiled the episode. Anyone whom takes a show this seriously needs to have their head checked.
Big spoiler. Teach was reportedly shot five times and stabbed more than twenty times before he died and was decapitated. Bonnet was hanged in Charles Town.
Exactly. I was pretty annoyed to come on here earlier today to talk about how much I loved the episode to find nothing but posts irate about Izzy's death and how it ruined the show for them.
Dig the username! As a history buff, especially the Golden age of sailing, I love the show. Going to watch it no matter what. I thought the episode was brilliant and nothing short of what I am expecting, pirates are going to die. At least Izzy went out with his horse hoof peg leg on.
Literally!!! The “crazy” fans are making the rest of us look bad. I’m not terribly pleased with the finale, but I’m not about to start attacking people about it
Twitter (and Tumblr)'s never happy, and people can rarely view stories and characters past a 2D perspective and therefore they miss a lot of depth. In my opinion, there wasn't a way for Ed's story to progress with Izzy still in the picture. I don't think he had to *die,* but he had to leave. He's an integral tether that holds Ed to Blackbeard and he's served as Stede's foil since Season 1. Plus, Izzy's a pirate, and a ruthless one at that. Sending him off on the Revenge as captain would not help to serve the growth of the rest of the crew, especially the ones traumatized from being on Blackbeard's crew. Just because he softened up a bit, doesn't mean he's an entirely new person. In my opinion, killing Izzy off was the best way to remove his character. Not only would he probably not want to go any other way, it severs that last Blackbeard tie for Ed.
Twitter is a cesspit for fandom in general and OFMD in particular.
There are definitely things I liked and things I didn't but so much is being overblown I think.
Yeeeaaaaaahhhhhh. My first reaction was “I cannot fucking believe they made me love him this season and then did that!” My second, immediately on the heels of the first, was “oh fuck, this is going to get really ugly.” Like … REALLY fucking ugly. And, well, here we are!
I use twitter for other things and whenever I've stumbled across the fandom there the takes have just made me mad. So negative and seemingly unable to just dislike something without coming up with reasons why it was morally objectionable. On here people have the largely the same issues and moans but are mostly able to discuss it normally without the dramatics, it's much nicer.
I like twitter for the gifs but yeah some people are **attached** to their vision. I've been thinking over Izzy's ending and IMO it makes sense, narratively (I have a degree on this too, I'm not just saying that). David Jenkins made great choices. And for me personally as a viewer it was a delight and I had a fantastic time.
You're right. This is an aspect of fandom that I truly despise. Why can't people just take the show as it comes and stop watching if they don't like it? It makes me furious when they go after the show runner/writers.
I’m so disappointed in like 75% of the fans on twitter and tumblr right now. It’s so disheartening to watch them all turn on the show, accuse them of queer baiting and “literally wanting me dead”(?!) b/c they projected onto Izzy. Ugh I hope DJenks and Co. are doing okay
I´ve been blocking some because they´re conveniently forgetting that the flesh and blood actor who has played the role of a pirate said he was part of the community this year. I´m pretty sure that´s the opposite of queer baiting.
There are something that I would critique on this but not that much!? Seriously it is never warranted to attack someone because you disliked a thing they worked really hard on. I think even if it's not what you wanted these people worked hard to create something for us people to enjoy and we should!
I have to say I follow a lot of older folks on ofmd twitter (30+) and they’re all being kind and thoughtful about it, similar to what I’m seeing here. I was actually pleasantly surprised when I logged in after watching the finale later Thursday night cause of work. I have a feeling a lot of the angry fans are younger peeps. Makes me think of that James Franco meme “first time?” 😂
I’m super upset about Izzy while simultaneously appreciating everything DJ & co have done in this beautiful story and I feel like they handled S2 really well. You know. Like a person with layers and nuance. Be a human to other humans even if they kill your fictional guy. It shouldn’t be this hard.
I’m so glad I decided to come on here tonight after being on Twitter all day. I’ve seen quite a few disappointing takes on the subreddit recently, but nothing compared to the out-of-pocket stuff I’ve seen on Twitter. The sense entitlement and lack of media literacy are at the point where it feels like some of these people have never watched a TV show before.
Luckily I’ve seen a fair amount of people speaking up about being fans of the finale and sharing very heartfelt apologies to David Jenkins on behalf of the shitty people, but unfortunately it’s coming as a result of the toxic backlash.
I was so proud of us for talking it through as a crew after fans started voicing their issues last week, but something went horribly wrong today and it feels like all the decorum is gone. I’m thankful for Reddit for being somewhat more mature and open to healthy discourse.
I went to Twitter just to see what you were getting at. Wow, so many people consider themselves better than the writers of the show.
None of those people are going to get in to Black Beard’s Bar & Grill & Other Delicacies.
Right? This is a show where a dude turned into a seagull and people routinely get stabbed all the way through the torso and walk it off. They probably did this so in the event of season 3, Con doesn't have to deal with all that goes into the CGI prosthetic lol
I feel like the same thing happened with Star Wars . The little fan boys got upset when it the movies didn’t exactly do what they wanted. I feel like it’s a common theme with online fandom’s now a lot of it is just toxic. But for me, I loved the season and everything that came with it, including the tears.
I wish people would put all that energy into their own creative pursuits. Don't like it? You don't have to. You can write your own story with your own characters, and you get to control what happens! And then people can get mad at YOU when you fuck things up. NaNoWriMo starts in a few days. What a great way to channel any lingering disappointment/frustration/whatever. At any rate, yeah I was super bummed Izzy had to go. Season 2 was perfect for him. But violent lives lead to violent deaths, etc etc.
There have been some truly unhinged takes on what happened.
I saw someone trying to pitch it as "the gays must die" trope, in a show where the next scene was two gay pirates getting married and two others retiring together in paradise, while another queer and non-binary couple embarked on another relationship.
Someone also had the hilarious cheek to say that Izzy was the only queer and disabled representation in media.
Just bafflingly irrational.
It's not Bring Out Your Gays when one person on a boat full of queer characters dies and the others sail on happily. No, not even if he just discovered drag. Wee John is busy officiating a queer wedding, isn't he?
Then there was an article in which DJ says, "There's no version of this show that does have Izzy in it," and "Ghosts exist in this world," and they were outraged by that, too.
"Since when?"
SINCE EPISODE TWO, YOU NUT.
Izzy had completed his arc. He would have been a gooseberry in Ed & Stede's relationship (despite some fans wanting him to join it, that wasn't the story he was writing, that's fanfic), and he had a fake leg that is awkward to portray on screen. If they bring him back as the ghost on Ed's shoulder, they can stop dealing with that. They can also make room for other characters, like Zheng, and for Ed to grow without being co-dependent with Izzy.
To be honest, it made perfect sense to me.
Y’all were sooooo fucking excited about how much the creators of this show interacted with fans. They did not have to do that, they have no obligation to like your fanart or compliment your cosplays. They don’t need to read your tweets or interact with you.
And they’re sure as hell going to question ever doing that again after this absolutely embarassing behaviour from what I can only assume are overgrown spoiled children.
What I hate the most is how that’s the platform a lot of cast and crew use to interact and I just hope they know the Twitter fan base just sucks. I’ve never seen anything like the negativity that festers on that site, it’s absolutely bananas.
Good lord, I was devastated about Izzy’s death, but it took nothing away from the wholesome ending between Stede and Ed. If anything, it was much needed to soften the blow of losing Izzy.
For a show who’s brought so many people together, why are fans fighting so hard to find an issue? It’s not DJ’s fault that this season ended up the way it did, but despite it being too quick, it was still brilliant. As much as I wanted Izzy to live, his death was not in vain.
Yeah I got on Twitter after watching it, and the first person I saw was notably upset and started saying it was the “bury your gays” trope. Someone else (who clearly liked the show before) was saying they hope it gets cancelled because of this. Just doesn’t make sense to me. Like you couldn’t throw a stone on The Revenge without hitting a character that’s in the alphabet mafia. And this is the first major character death we’ve had yet out of two seasons. So what exactly? They just wanna watch a perfect sweet show where nothing bad happens and nobody dies? Where there’s no real stakes because no one could die? That’s bad storytelling. I mean they’re pirates for chrissakes.
Be upset all you want, god knows I was. I cried my eyes out. But it’s ridiculous to sit around and be mad like they’re just killing off gay characters. Or mad that the fanfiction you made up in your head didn’t play out the way you wanted.
I recently broke my long Twitter hiatus against my better judgment and now I’m beginning to think more than ever it was a really bad idea. Who’s causing all the ruckus? The Steddyhands people? Not that I don’t love a few of my old Steddyhands friends, but I can see that particular group really popping off about the ending. Even though DJ basically low key warned us it was coming in advance.
Edit: Not you, Tikli, Hiphop, and Spicy! I know you guys aren’t being dicks on Twitter to anybody. You guys are still cool.
Twitter was super fun all season, and somehow after this finale it's become completely rancid. I haven't checked, but I'm hoping tumblr has some better takes
Did anyone else see all the “bury your gays” accusations. Genuinely the funniest and saddest thing I’ve seen online 😂. I saw someone say well if everyone in the show is gay and you kill one they’re going to be a fruit which had me howling. Gotta laugh or you cry.
But seriously all this nonsense makes me keep my distance from fandom because it brings down amazing art. Like this show FED you like no other ever has, and you’re gonna accuse it of queer baiting/bury your gays? Please be real and get off AO3 for 5 minutes
I am glad I haven't jumped on Twitter because I really don't want my euphoria to be disappointed. I loved s2 and deeply loved the finale. So many reasons, but the writing is superb. The acting is off the hook. Each and every one of them gave so much to their roles that I totally believed who they were. As much as I was in a pile of tears over Izzy's death scene with Ed, I accept that it is exactly how Izzy would have wanted to leave piracy. He said that pirates don't retire--they die. I felt he was desperate to apologize to Ed for what he considered a selfish betrayal. He wanted Blackbeard to be the Kraken until it went too far. He realized that Ed had wanted to leave piracy for a while and pushed him to stay in it because that is what served Izzy. Izzy left piracy with his death--the way pirates do. He expressed his thoughts to Ed and then found comfort in knowing that Ed would be good. I thought it was a beautiful moment and his legacy will continue. He repaired his relationship with everyone and accepted Stede's original crew as his partners in piracy. Seeing the love between Ed and Stede finally lead to them being together is what I wanted so badly. They are truly, madly in love. They have the kind of love that Mary described in s1e10, "It feels... easy. It's just like breathing. He understands my idiosyncrasies. Finds them charming, even. We expose each other to new things, new ideas. We just pass the time so well. I'd call those things love. I hope you find that." I believe that our boys have definitely found love. They not only understand each others idiosyncrasies, but they adore them. They balance each other (as Izzy saw) and hang on every word when they speak.
I love this show. I love the writing, the actors, the sets and scenery (especially s2 in New Zealand), the costumes, the entire crew that makes this happen. The show has done a lot for me personally. I have always been an LBGQT+ ally, but want to do better and understand more of how I can help. By truly listening to everyone, I become more and more aware of how it must feel to be treated as less than for being one's authentic self instead of what societal norms state. The relationships in this show were so pure and lovely to watch and I melted for each and every one of them. I could care less what anyone's sexuality is, how they identify, etc. I just love them for who they are. If I am not expressing myself correctly--I assure you I am open to learning more and understanding. I long for the day when everyone's lifestyle is normalized and it isn't a big deal at all--where it doesn't shock people to see 2 men kissing and be in a loving relationship. That is why I love this show so much. I'm invested in each person because I love what they put out in the world. I am grateful for every single person who make this treasure for us and I will sing their praises every where I go. I love my rom-con pirate show and no one is knocking me down from my high.
Imagine explaining to the real ghosts of Edward Teach, Stede Bonnet and Israel hands that people would rage over their cultural heritage. “I buggered Bonnet?! EW! I hate that guy!” (Irl Edward Teach REALLY did.) “hey!!! I got to live past 30! Neat! And I got a unicorn leg! … they’re fighting about what now?!…”
Id’ pay a medium for this conversation.
I didn’t realize a big chunk of fans were doing that! Kinda bonkers that people who also claim to love a show with themes of kindness and understanding that tells people not to be toxic were so… well toxic.
I totally fell for Izzy this season, but I was prepared because quite literally he was giving the lesson about moving on. The fact he died makes it a great test to practice moving on that some have already failed .
I just get so heated when some people who are into these themes can just throw it out the window so fast at an opportunity. Its a common thing in the Doctor Who fanbase. Watch a show about change and kindness but choose to forget it irl.
People gotta stop being dicks. If they gotta vent, journal it. Going online to vent isn’t always a good idea especially when directed at others. It’s easy to dehumanize people when you only see text and profile pic.
I find it so baffling but I shouldn’t at this point.
I'm heartbroken that we lost Izzy and honestly would have much preferred that he got to live, but holy shit, the way people are talking about David Jenkins is disgusting. I've seen people flat out say it's saying that "people like them" don't deserve to live, as if one queer character out of 86 dying is "bury your gays". The sheer scope of the moral bullshit people have slapped onto this because they're upset that a character died, I swear.
I understand the frustration of having Izzy’s character, one that many people saw themselves in, die just after seemingly accepting himself as he was. He died with unresolved trauma, without experiencing healthy, reciprocated love and only got a chance at true self-expression and acceptance (the scene of his La Vie on Rose rendition was one of the most memorable moments of the season). However, some people seem to miss the fact that not all stories (queer or not) have happy endings in real life. Many people go unexpectedly, meet their ends untimely and leave unresolved issues and pain behind. That is only a realistic representation of life, and even more of a pirate’s. I’m happy he got the camaraderie he longed from his crew in his final days and that he was allowed to die in the arms of the man that he loved, even if it felt unjust and too soon (but then again, that’s what the song from the literal opening scene for the show tells us: “a pirate’s life, short but nice”.)
I am sad but I loved the ending. I’ll be mourning Izzy for a long time, but fuck it if Edward needed that wakeup call to be allowed to be himself 😭 I never knew I could feel so many emotions in just 30 minutes. I love this show so much.
It was sad, I loved Izzy. But I rewatched the whole show including the finale yesterday and it's a completely valid way for his story to end! Can't wait to see where they go from here.
Some people lose sight of good storytelling when they’re attached and invested. We’re all allowed to hope for a different ending/plotline, but not entitled to anything and everything our little hearts demand. That’s what fanfiction is for. It’s astounding to me that we have been given everything in fan-service, but this powerful storytelling device (saying goodbye to a complex character in an emotional and well-earned way) is somehow unacceptable, especially when it’s been executed so well… All of these characters will meet their end eventually and this is so true to Izzy’s character, it’s all the more heart-wrenching. That’s incredible storytelling. This isn’t a “kill the queer/queer-coded character” situation, this is a beautifully fitting end for a remarkable story arc.
I haven’t come across any negative posts yet but I’ve only just started checking out the subreddit in the last couple of hours (every so gently) and I’m not on twitter or tumblr anymore. However, storytelling is my profession and I’m critical of both the storytellers and an unprepared (even childish) audience, so I’m fully expecting some annoying takes. And yeah, I know how pretentious that sounds…but I did my time on tumblr, I know how self-righteous folks can get when they’re surrounded by others feeling the same powerful emotions and refusing to take a step back to appreciate the overall story. Often, I find that it’s warranted. In this case, I can’t imagine any argument against this episode other than “I wanted everyone to live happily ever after and never face their own death, even when their beautiful character arc demands it happen on-screen.”
Literally ended how I expected it to..and tbh...how I wanted it to. It was so obvious that Izzy was gonna go, especially with the amount of injuries he’d sustained too, and it was obvious even last episode that his arc had come full circle so it was peak time to send him off.
Honestly. I was so happy after I watched the finale and these fan reactions really ruined my day. I cannot believe how vile people are being, especially towards dj. People are genuinely accusing him of homophobia? Calling izzy's death a case of bury your gays? It's like they're trying soooo hard not to understand these concepts just so they can shit all over a truly exceptional show merely bc their lil fave died.
I also cried when izzy died but man. It's a television show character. People are acting as if David killed Con for real.
Glad to see there are people who enjoyed the finale/s2!
I'm a casual fan, like i enjoy the show but don't engage in the fandom side. People on twitter are acting unhinged. I think fan culture was a mistake lol
Honesty, I'm more pissed off at MAX than anyone/thing else. If they had given us a 10+ episode season, I really truly believe this last episode could've been slowed the hell down and made into AT LEAST 3 separate episodes. It was too much happening in such a short amount of time because they HAD to wrap the season up and only had 30 minutes to do so.
It surprises me to see there’s any type of backlash. I really enjoyed the season and the finale. It was a gut punch. But I love the story they’re telling. Honestly I’m not on many socials so I haven’t really see any reactions besides what on this sub. But I thought the story has been great. And losing Izzy broke my heart, as it should. Because the story/character development has been great.
And the way he went out. Was beautifully done. I can’t imagine a better ending for a character.
I was sad about Izzy's death. But narratively it worked well; it made sense for his arc. Emotionally also: Izzy got a fantastic dying scene, a hero's death, with a weeping friend and a moving speech. And acting-wise: I keep seeing in my head the understated way in which Con played the moment he was shot. It was so subtle that I missed it first time round. Brilliantly in character for stoic Izzy who had so few happinesses in his life but lives his last few months to the full. And feeling big emotions? That's the aim of art. The show gave us heartripping s1e10 and without it we wouldn't have been so emotionally engaged. It's a comedy but it's not fluff.
Just came over here from Twitter since that’s my primary social media I feel comfortable using. I’ve never been involved with an online fandom before but I thought I would give it a go for OFMD season 2. I didn’t know what was normal and what was not during this whole thing until someone posted I should just check out FB or Reddit because they’re a lot more level-headed right now in this fandom. *Whew* I have to say, coming to this Reddit thread feels like a breath of fresh air. THANK YOU!!!!!
They’re missing the point - Blackbeard had to die for Ed to be able to live. Izzy was keeping Blackbeard alive. Therefore, Izzy had to die for Ed to be able to live, symbolically. Sorry if it’s already been said by another commenter.
Con has spoken about finding filming this show a struggle and demanding. For all we know he wanted writing off. Izzy was never the fan favourite last season, everyone thought he was a prick and a homophobe. But this season he threw on some drag makeup so now killing him is a crime against the fans?? How!?
People really need to separate fiction form reality and realize not everything is gonna go their way. That’s why we have fanfics and fanart. Humanity man
This is ridiculous.
I have enjoyed watching Con in a number of films and series and whatever I think about Izzy being written out of the story, it is exactly that, a story. It broke a lot of tropes and was an absolute pleasure to watch. I look forward to watching whatever Con has got lined up next, I can´t imagine him not being inundated with parts that interest him, where he can showcase his acting props. Any other reaction is imho disrespectful and uncalled for and it´s not helping get S03 signed up either.
It's genuinely disturbing. I fully get having comfort verses and comfort characters but there's something so nasty and unhinged about the way certain parts of the fandom are reacting to the finale.
Wow I'm so confused by what's going on here haha. I enjoyed this season and poked in this morning to see what the word is.....Izzy was great this season. I cried when he died. Now I can't wait for season 3..what am I doing wrong??
I feel the exact same way! My partner and I finished the second season last night. I laughed, I cried, I was so moved and entertained! I was sad Izzy died but so proud of his character arc! I was satisfied. I’m genuinely baffled at the hatred and anger so many “fans” have!?! Like….if you hate the show maybe don’t watch it and stick to fanfic!!!!? And leave the poor cast and crew alone, they just had the longest strike in entertainment history!!! Let them have fun and entertain us!
i completely agree. thankfully not on twitter but i’ve seen the same shit on tumblr and it’s pretty frustrating. if you’re upset about izzy, that’s okay! but don’t be a dick to other fans and the freaking CREATORS about it.
Unhinged fans are acting like DJ killed Con himself. And then getting angry at Stede and Ed fans for no reason. THE SHOW IS BUILT AROUND THEIR CHARACTERS AND THEM AS A COUPLE. Let's get some perspective here.
Also, why act like we have to pick Team Izzy or Team Ed/Stede?! We can like all of them! We can be happy for one and sad for the other, they’re not mutually exclusive
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I gotta think he's pissed. Can he even talk about it as it's show - related?
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Isn’t the strike over? Or am I deeper under this rock than I thought?
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Ah! One of the two is over. I was half right!
Yeah, the SAG-AFTRA strikes are still ongoing and scheduled to continue till Jan 2024 at least.
Unhinged fans acting like DJ looked at them PERSONALLY and was like “ah yes a happy gay disabled person - I’m here to ruin YOUR life today” As if the only logic/reason to complete an obvious character arc was to hurt them. Personally. It’s so messed up.
They're also posting Tumblr screenshots with similar hot takes and it's just fostering even more negativity.
This makes me so sad. People turned on DJ so fast. I knew this was a risk since the first season was a such a huge success and then the hype for the second season was real. I was honestly worried it would be a complete dumpster fire. But tbh I thought it was pretty good! I think DJ probably knew killing off you-know-who would make a lot of people mad. DJ had so much to live up to in the second season, it could have been all fan pandering but he wrote the story he wanted to write. I’m glad he made what he wanted. I think that’s always better than trying to make something based on what fans want. I think what makes me the most sad is that this fan community was once one of positivity and support. We followed and supported all the actors and people who worked on the show and they seemed to really enjoy that and loved working on a show everyone loved so much. Now I worry it’s just going to turn toxic and negative like so many other fandoms I’ve been part of.
I remember he made a tweet once in response to fans calling him Dad, to the effect of, he was looking forward to fulfilling the role by one day disappointing them. I'd like to think he was at least mostly braced for this. I feel vicariously stressed for the creators.
Yes. The question now is how do we turn the poison into positivity 😔 (me trying to be cute but also a genuine question)
Offer the counterpoint, that you enjoyed the show and want more, as often and as loudly as they are their tantrums.
Whatever happened to talking it through as a crew? Apparently some believed in that message more than others.
Imagine wanting one of the most LGBT-positive shows on TV to give the main characters a tragic ending because a secondary character died.
The amount of people accusing the show of homophobia and queerbating is genuinely hilarious. This is the gayest show that’s ever existed!!!
just saw someone on twitter who is mad abt Izzy’s death ragging that they can’t be excited about two straight men pretending to be gay kissing (stede and ed) and then also posting good omens. like that is also two straight men kissing, i assume if GO s3 doesn’t go the way they want they will also come to hate them as well. it just feels so much like people getting way too invested to the point of forgetting that art is not created via a direct link to your specific tastes
Ah yes, one of my favorite internet folks- "my old man yaoi is better and less problematic than your old man yaoi"! I'm joking, most of those people are teens and young neurodivergent people (I say as a young ND person) who are processing their favorite shows in the only way they know how. 99% of them will look back on this and either cringe or laugh.
People spent a year reading and writing their own version of fan fic and can’t take the ACTUAL writer telling his own story. The fandom let me down today fr.
Some of these “fans” are the worst. They are really fans. They fancy themselves as the show runners and get mad that their fan fics ideas don’t make it into cannon. It’s not just OFMD fans. They are everywhere.
This is literally it. They’re so absorbed with the stories they were writing in their own heads that they didn’t bother paying attention to the actual story playing out on screen. The finale was the *perfect* resolution to every narrative thread they’ve been building since the beginning of the show. I get being sad when your favorite character dies, but it was so beautifully and meaningfully done. To shit all over it because it’s not what you wrote in your fic is so incredibly entitled and ungrateful.
What people need to do is go outside today and touch some fucking grass
i caught a glimpse of the reactions before watching and i was genuinely baffled after i got through the episode, what the heck
Likewise. I like to read spoilers so I can mentally prepare myself. I was very concerned given how everyone was going on about it, but then I watched it and I actually really enjoyed it. I cried a little when Izzy died, and then I felt that sort of empty feeling that I always feel when a show I love comes to an end (I know there might be a season 3, but the writers wanted to be sure to give us a good ending just in case, which I really appreciate). I get it that it sucks when a character you love dies, but these people really need to chill the fuck out. Also, this show has no basis in the laws of reality. If there is a 3rd season, I am sure that Izzy will be back in one way or another, because that's just the type of show it is. Buttons turned into a seagull, for goodness' sake.
i can't really believe the way some people treat this show so seriously i mean this is the show with a scene of an honest to gods piano falling on a man, it's like looney tunes with queer pirates
The first season of the show was revolutionary to me. It gave me such a confidence boost, and helped me find the courage to publicly embrace myself and come out. It means a lot to a lot of people, and I get that. But it's also ridiculous. It's campy, it's silly, it's illogical, it's fun. It doesn't take itself too seriously, even when it does. Even in the heavy moments, it is fantastical and improbable. It wouldn't be the same show if it wasn't these things. I think shows like this have to be silly to really resonate, you know? The only other piece of media that has given me the same high recently is The Rocky Horror Picture Show - which is also ridiculous, campy, fantastical, and unashamedly weird. Things like that and OFMD speaks to those of us who are also misplaced, goofy, and strange because they are those things too. I swear that some people have forgotten that, and seemingly have forgotten what drew them to the show in the first place. Sorry for the rant. I am just annoyed.
nah no need to apologise, i feel exactly the same... i'm an autistic bi transman who's obsessed with horror movies and sanrio characters, i've been a sily weirdo all my life and i LOVE that this show can embrace everything that makes me who i am, but i also respect what it is and what djenkins wants it to be! i trust his "vision" and i'm just excited to be a part of the ride
I'm an autistic, asexual, maybe non-binary-ish woman. I never really felt like I fit in anywhere. This show showed me it's okay to be a weirdo, and through it, I found a lot of people who are also weirdos who never fit in anywhere. I love that. I really, really hope we get a season 3, because I want to see what is next. Even if we don't, I am really glad the show came into my life, and it sounds silly to say, but I really don't think I would be who I am becoming without it. Nothing will ever be able to take that away. I am really glad that David Jenkins became obsessed with this weird little pirate that his wife told him about, and that he decided to write a story about him, and that he was able to share that story with us. It has brought me so much joy (even if the Fandom is currently not bringing joy lol)
Also like, IT’S ABOUT PIRATES!! They live short violent lives. Someone gets stabbed in literally every episode!! But somehow every character was going to ride off into the sunset with the gay love of their lives and die in their own beds at the age of 80 with a belly full of wine and a mouth around their(…you know the rest)?? Really? Every single one? If that’s had happened, half the fandom would’ve been wingeing that it wasn’t “realistic.” (Which, it’s not, but it’s got to TRY to stay at least slightly on theme.)
Yeah I’m Waiting for undead Izzy the pirate king! Go and resurrect him, seagull Buttons!
Right? I just finished episode 8 a few minutes ago (after scrolling past this sub all day trying not to read post titles and only half succeeding) and I'm quite perplexed now.
My husband’s response was “wait I don’t get it what are people so mad about?” Genuinely had no idea.
Fandom in general can be like this, I'm so used to it by now that I just distance myself whenever things get like this. Just going to re-watch the show again and again, and love it on my own so no one can sour it for me (which tends to happen if I don't step away soon enough). Because I love this show, it's fantastic and I'm so grateful it exists.
These negative reactions from the fandom were my biggest fear regarding season two, it's sad to see them come alive. I was so looking forward to get into discussions, tumbler deep takes etc., but for now I'll just leave them be and just rewatch on my own.
Well said. Feel exactly the same.
Twitter is a cesspool and honestly some of the worst of fandom. Though most of my bad encounters there have been with Izzy haters and not Izzy fans, but it’s just general a rotten place. Haven’t participated in fandom there since Musk took over and kinda grateful for it.
Another reason for Jenkins et al to write the show THEY wanna see, not the show they assume we wanna see. Like we can be in their heads but we shouldn’t be the runs running the ship. Let’s not support a mutiny of such a brilliant show.
The negativity that's been around constantly this past week has been *a lot*. And it's been happening right here too, even though I feel people don't try to police others nearly as much as other platforms. I'm actually so happy with this season despite its flaws and instead of talking about all the great things about it, it's post after post after post after post of people saying they either hated or are so disapointed by the season. Like, I get it and I don't blame them for having an opinion, but it's so disheartening and draining because they are SO loud. Like fuck, it's so sad to see. I love this season and here I am sad about it.
Same. I loved this season more than the first, I’m sad that it’s been so divisive. I’m sad that others are giving the creators the impression that we’re disappointed.
I also prefer season 2 to season 1. It’s nice not to be alone.
I loved season 2 way more than season 1 so there’s dozens of us
Yes, pulled the words out of my mouth right there. I hope the crew will see that many of us are happy with s2, despite the loud voices telling them the contrary.
i'm in the same boat! i had some issues with parts of season 2, but i had issues with season 1 too. but yeah overall i loved the good majority of season 2 and there were SO many good moments. i love that it was darker, but i also found it funnier than ever. i think rewatching it will only strengthen my love for it. and if there is a season three, god willing, i think a lot of the issues i did s2 would go away once we see it as part two of a three-act play. most of all i just really, really need more of these pirates. 🥺 i hope djenks wants to make more, and our executive overlords will let him.
All the same! I think because I kind of believe that S1 has a Stede filter all over it (campy, positive, very unserious) and S2 an Ed filter (darker, sharper humour, and sudden turns like his mind), the flaws almost make sense in a way, and I can push them aside a little. I can't wait to rewatch from s1 and see how it flows! Crossing my fingers for S3.
Personally I have a hard time with feeling second hand embarrassment for a character. And lord knows that season 1 has a LOT of those moments for poor Stede 😅 I think it’s one of the reasons why I prefer S2. Besides Zheng beating him up, there aren’t any scenes that I had to watch through my fingers. It was lovely to see him grow more confident in his skills (and lack of).
Turning on him so quick I see, the minute the show doesn’t meet their expectations. Fandoms can be so vile.
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I’ve been in enough fandoms at this point that while it’s fun to have cast and crew be open with fans — fans will start to think they are “betrayed” when things don’t go their way. I’ve seen it happen in fandom after fandom, it’s ridiculous.
Same. Yesterday when cast and crew started making their accounts private, I realized the days of cast being available and celebrating the fandom are probably over. I saw multiple comments on Twitter yesterday from fans saying they’re going to *ill themselves because the character died. I’m shocked by this extreme reaction, and I’ve been a fangirl for years.
I ended up loving Izzy, but I wasn’t worried about his story because I trusted it in the hands of the writers. THIS is what I was afraid of.
Just shows they aren’t actual fans. I feel they are the same as entitled yelp reviewers.
I think they are fans - but they are a different kind of fan. They make art and fic and have discord channels dedicated to their theories and their interpretation of the show. That's fairly standard super fan stuff and can be a lot of fun- but I think the problem is that their Fanon did not line up with Canon. To them, the fanon is the most fun part of the show, so for the show to break their Fanon...it will take them time to process probably. It doesn't excuse the lashing out obviously - I hope they don't try to ruin it for everyone because it was ruined for them. I'm also confused because it is implied in story and directly by Jenkins that this is not the end of Izzy's story...there's a good chance Izzy's true end is bound to be very different if we get the opportunity to see it.
Also, nothing is stopping those writers or artists from continuing to create fanom they love. If they were worried about it being canon, they wouldn’t draw the pairings they do.
yeah exactly. I think they will have this period of intense upset and then hopefully find their way back. That seems to be the pattern in fandoms anyway (and I have done it before!!)
People are being such dicks about this show. It's perfectly fine to be disappointed, or to not like how things were handled, but people are taking this shit way too far.
Read that first sentence in my Frenchie “such dicks about spoons” voice
Haha that wasn't even on purpose, but now I'm giggling at it
I love Joel Fry's voice 😍
I feel like discussions about Ed & Stede have been completely sidelined because of this, which is wild because they're the main characters and the story is about them and there was a LOT of great progress in this season about their relationship development and internal struggles. Izzy is a great character but he's a side character....he's always been the foil to the main 2 so his end makes sense even if people don't like it. And the harassing of the staff just turns my stomach tbh...
This is it for me. I think Izzy’s a great character to have in a show like this and Con did a fantastic job. As a UK viewer Con is a highly respected actor here and is always in a number of tv shows due to his talent. Izzy’s death made perfect sense to me as whilst I can see the rest of the crew eventually retiring and helping with the Inn it wouldn’t have worked for Izzy. However, this is a show about Ed and Stede and their love for each other. They are the main couple and it’s their story that is being told. I really hope we get a season 3 as this is my favourite show ever made, followed my Frasier. The whole cast is great, with Frenchie being my favourite crew member and I have loved season 2. Taika and Rhys have been fantastic this series and they deserve a final series they can talk about when the companies pay them fairly and stop being arseholes! Fans on twitter can be so awful and give a bad name to the fandom. The writers, crew and cast have given so much to us and it must be so awful for them to read some of the vile. I also think Con wouldn’t be happy after saying how much the show has done for him in his life. You see it with other shows like Heartstopper, when something doesn’t go their exact way they get aggressive and abusive. This show is about being kind so I hope some of them remember that.
Thank you! I watched last night and was blown away by the Ed/Stede romantic everything. It's so perfect and beautiful, I could write an essay about them. My heart feels like it's being squeezed in a good way... anyway then I go on Reddit to see if other people are as ecstatic as me about them finally getting it on, and I find that apparently no-one else even cared about Ed and Stede because of Izzy. I thought Izzy's death was very well done and I have been so impressed by Con O'Neill's acting, especially in S2, he really showed raw feeling going through a whole bunch of stuff and finally found peace, it was lovely... but to let his death ruin the show for you?!? I don't get it. People die in TV shows, it's a pretty common plot point. If Ed or Stede had died I would maybe understand (though not to the point of hurling vitriol at DJ, I'm an adult). But Izzy was a side character. Honestly I know I sound like an old person but I feel sorry for folks who can't appreciate or understand beautiful things because somehow they are so terrified of being offended or made to feel extreme emotions. It's part of life, people. Allow yourself to feel feelings. It's OK. Surely the show teaches us that...?
I might be overthinking it but I feel like a lot of people are just upset at the death of a character they loved (valid, it’s ok and even good to be moved by fiction) but for some reason feel the need to justify that feeling through some other route, either that it was morally wrong for writers to do or just bad writing etc, I think people need to learn that sometimes things they didn’t want to happen do happen, including in fiction, and they can be moved by that without turning it into vitriol against the people who moved them (the creaters etc)
My hot take is that over the past "some number of years" people have begun to see the movies and the television they watch almost exclusively through the lens of a consumer. The reaction people have is "I didn't get the *product* I wanted and that's unacceptable". I know that there's been elements of this pre-modern media. Famously Sherlock Holmes's creator had such an aggressive fan campaign against him he was basically forced to make more. I definitely feel though that some combination of social media, our ever worsening capitalist hellscape, and the more and more sophisticated media apparatuses of large production companies has led us to this point where people feel personally wronged when someone's art doesn't go exactly how they pictured it. The idea that art can be made *not for you* is becoming more and more unpalatable to people in this age of hyper capitalist media production. Either this idea will fade over time or it will get more and more prominent and art will become more and more bland.
I think the fact that it’s an upbeat queer show—one of the ONLY upbeat queer shows—is also causing tension. So many people have shared that it feels like a comfort show to them, which places a lot of pressure on the creators to heal some sort of generational queer trauma of poor media representation. That’s a lot. There’s also the fact that the queer fan base has such a diverse array of identities and experiences that we want to see reflected on the screen, but there are only so many cast members, only so many episodes, and only so many directions in which the story can go. I was so worried about this vitriolic reaction that I started to get nervous every time someone called it a comfort show, because I knew something heartbreaking would have to happen and many who saw the show itself as a safe space would revolt. It’s such a beautiful piece of art, and successful art inspires strong reactions no matter what they are. I hope that’s something that DJ and the crew can take away from this. For better or worse this show strikes a cord in the deepest parts of so many people, and that alone makes it a success.
> So many people have shared that it feels like a comfort show to them, which places a lot of pressure on the creators to heal some sort of generational queer trauma of poor media representation. That’s a lot. I think you’re absolutely right. And I think it’s such an unfair expectation to put on a creator, and on yourself. Like, I 1000000% get finding immense comfort and delight and all those warm fluffy emotions from shows. But unless the show is finished, and static, its impossible for a show to be exactly what you want it to be. It’s definitionally impossible for creators to satisfy everyone so putting the show in charge of your emotional regulation is such a doomed effort. A creator will (or at least should) always make art they want to make. That’s a recipe for disaster if you demand it be something specific and tailored to your wants.
this is a really interesting point that i hadn’t considered! i think this really gnarls it’s claws in with the parasocial nature of having direct access to your favorite show’s cast/crew on twitter. personally, i always hated that on twitter, if i made a tweet about an actor, it was possible they would see it because both actors and fans were on twitter (as opposed to tumblr where it was a LOT more silo-ed and you weren’t just going to run into an actor on tumblr). and it happened once or twice that by nature of using a name or a phrase that the creator of something I tweeted about liked my tweet about their art. oh how it icked me out, I was like you stay over there and make stuff and I’ll stay over here and consume and we will never touch lol anyway tangent over, i think a lot of people think that because David Jenkins liked their tweets about loving izzy that he was going to treat the character the way THEY would treat the character, and felt personally betrayed when he stood by his artistic choices. To your point about capitalism too, I think a lot of people feel like their time has been wasted on a show if it doesn’t behave exactly how they want it to. (Like people who won’t watch a show unless they can ship—I remember this being VERY contentious when the show Chernobyl came out, for reasons you can probably imagine)
people when their very specific vision they have of the show doesn't happen and instead the creators manage to surprise them&create ground breaking scenes but it's not 100% what they wanted: >:(
Seriously, I feel like I went through the five stages of grief over how Netflix ended Voltron, but did a hunt down the creators and harass them? NO. people need to grow tf up.
Voltron was a show I only watched because Rhys Darby was in it. He’s the reason I started watching OFMD. I agree these people need to grow tf up and understand how scripted shows work. Someone was going to die this season and they would have gotten angry no matter who it was because some people live for that anger. And it’s immature.
Funnily enough Voltron was my intro to Rhys! I'd heard him in passing elsewhere but never actually latched onto his voice/acting before that. Definitely a highlight of the show. <3
For me the first time I saw him was in the Jumanji movie but he also played Yvette Nicole Brown's weird robot sidekick on a goofy gameshow for kids that was kind of hilarious. I was assigned to closed-caption the thing and he made me laugh quite often.
Oh my Dog yes! Because what the writers actually wrote did not fit their elaborate long standing head canons of What ABSOLUTELY SHOULD and WOULD happen! They are now being Uber dramatically salty and proclaiming the whole show is trash!! And we have all been Queer bated! CRUELLY TRICKED! DJ is a hack!
It reminds me of ages ago when the Sherlock Fandom managed to queerbait themselves and then were super mad when Sherlock and John didn't become a couple at the end. They literally thought that the creators were sending them coded messages about it. Oh, or the people who claimed that WWDITS is queer bait because Nandermo hasn't happened. Never mind that every single character is queer and most of them have had sex with each other. These types of fans are so exhausting.
I watch WWDITS and I NEVER understood the Nandermo fans but I’m scared to say it anywhere else 😅. Same with Izzy: I love him (RIP my man) but come on, a throuple with Ed and Stede? Seriously? It’s one thing to make up a fic with what you wish would happen but nowhere in the show was it even hinted that it could be a thing. I swear it takes ONE Tiktok montage and people will suddenly start misreading stuff just to fit their narrative.
I am a Nandermo shipper, but I also *really* enjoy it with just tension and subtext. I would have been so mad if Izzy became part of a throuple with Stede and Ed. I love them all and I have no problems with polyarmory, but I really would have hated that because it would not have made any sense *at all *.
I was honestly expecting more of a Pete/Lucius/Izzy throuple. That would have made way more sense than Ed/Stede/Izzy.
I would have been *completely* into that.
I was so hoping for an Izzy/Lucius/Pete throuple to happen! Omg! 😭 And I think Nathan was as well! But Izzy’s end was beautiful in its own way. And I’m glad that it was used to signify a new life for Ed.
There was definitely deliberate tension between Izzy and Lucius in a few scenes. And I could see Pete transferring his Blackbeard awe to someone who didn't try and murder Lucius.
I had a Steddy Hands fan yell at me because I told him there was no way that's where the show was going. Just because it happens in fanfic doesn't mean there have been ANY clues as to the show wanting to do a throuple between Ed, Stede, and Izzy.
I can understand wanting to be represented and really really wanting to see romantic chemistry.. but creating things in your head esp when the writers have given absolutely no indication of a romance or even said nothing like that will happen and then getting irate is just hurting yourself.
Like, with Sherlock, the literally created a scenario and then got mad when it didn't happen. The show was queer-baity as hell so I get the frustration with that, but they literally went insane. Writers don't owe you things just because you consume their creations. They have been kind enough to share their work with you. You don't get to demand things from them. (Not you specifically, of course, but "you" meaning this particular type of fan)
To be fair, the last episode of Sherlock was terrible for reasons other than the johnlock conspiracy. There is real quality in the storytelling here and I’m upset by the number of people who are trying to make their opinion into a self righteous proclamation of morality and so-called bad writing.
Oh, the last episode of Sherlock absolutely was, but that's a different conversation. For the most part, the writing this season was great. I loved how everything was mirrored from the first season. There were some things I wasn't too big on, but that's whatever. They need to realize that enemy here was Max cutting their funding, not the writers deciding to tell their story.
How they basically reconnected the series throwing in that sister. What was that?
It's embarrassing how some folk interact with the media they consume. I have my own critiques of the show but I do with just about anything I watch or listen to. But these aren't my characters or my story and I'm not the one that gets to make the call. Some fandoms are downright pathological.
I remember when the fandom ran Con off Twitter back when S1 aired. Then went after Rhys and I think even his wife too over something dumb. The OFMD fandom is one step below Heartstopper, since at least they didn’t force anyone to come out about their sexuality. Having public figures being able to interact with on social media was huge mistake, the parasocial becoming crippling toxic for these teenagers online.
> I remember when the fandom ran Con off Twitter back when S1 aired. Then went after Rhys and I think even his wife too over something dumb. That pisses me off. Rhys must be the nicest guy on the planet. And now everyone loves Con and Izzy and are freaking out over losing both.
many people biting the hand that feeds
I have a lot of problems with season 2, i can also recognize that being mad at this show for "burying it's gays" is one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard. Not only that but Izzy is not the only disabled character in the show, pete, Jackie, lucius, are all visibly disabled.
I also think a lot of the people ranting about this kind of forgets that when it comes to portraying disability, Mathew Maher isn’t acting, his cleft palate is just part of who he is. And it’s not played for laughs, or even commented on. That’s really something when it comes to representation, IMO.
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My 0.02 on the crux of the disability factor: We meet Pete, Jackie, etc. as characters who already have a disability, have made peace with it and it's now simply a part of them. Indeed, I didn't even know Mathew Maher had a cleft palate until someone mentioned it. Not only that, they continue to live, love, grow and thrive. Izzy was denied that opportunity. With his character, we also got a front seat view of what happens when a formerly abled bodied person suddenly becomes disabled. The pain, the grief, the suicidal impulses, the rage, the slow adaptions and acceptance of a new reality. (Having a crew who loved/supported him/made him their Unicorn also makes a world of difference). Just as he reached the point of finding peace with his disability and himself as a whole, he gets killed off. A bit rough, no? As someone who became disabled only a few years ago, Izzy's story hit pretty close to home.
Very good point, I do wish Izzy could have gotten more time to be happy with himself as he was. I also wish they had examined Pete losing a finger more, you'd think a scribe/artist would be more emotionally affected by losing a finger. My general opinion is that Izzy was meant to die from the start, he's a pirate through and through and in a story set at the end of piracy there was no other life for him. Seeing him die in season 3 would have been mroe satisfying to me. But you make a good point that I hadn't considered.
> Just as he reached the point of finding peace with his disability and himself as a whole, he gets killed off. A bit rough, no? I mean yeah but life just isnt fair sometimes. Should this be a fairytail ending where everyone has a paradise ending? Izzy got to accept who he was before he died which is more than some people get
So glad I deleted twitter I do love Ep8 but it's still fresh in mind so I would be lying if I said I wasn't salty about Izzys death and the rushed ending. I'm hoping that we get S3 and it's more slower paced and exploring character relationships in depth
thank you for this post 😭 i am part of the people who were disappointed with izzy's fate and the general pace of the show due to the cuts, but twitter surprised me so negatively with how feral people are acting over there. i actually came to check this subreddit to get some room to talk about this amazing show outside that violently negative space, and im glad to see people have been keeping themselves respectful and kind over here, honestly. it feels like an unexpected breath of fresh air
I almost feel like shaking things up here and positing that Izzy’s death was a happy ending that he deserved . Will they eat me alive?
I mean Izzy’s TV show ending was better than Israel Hand’s real life ending.
Right? The real Izzy Hands betrayed his crew and like died destitute in London if I recall…
Yeah, I think at 24.
Actually no, he didn't betray his crew. He was separated from them after receiving his injury but still got caught after the authorities went on their anti-piracy campaign. He was made to stand trial but only testified about the corrupt officials who collaborated with Blackbeard in exchange for his and his crewmates' lives. Teach and Bonnet were already killed before his capture, and the rest of the crew was already in captivity with him, so calling it a betrayal is an absolute stretch.
Yes. But it'll be highly entertaining.
Didn’t he say in s1 that if they survived to eke out one more day, he’d offer his 🖕🖕 resignation? Death could be considered the most permanent resignation of all 😳 (Sorry that’s super dark but I couldn’t help myself- I felt inspired to be a little contrarian by your comment 😅)
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Haha done. It’s up. Starts with “In Solidarity with David Jenkins and crew”
GURL kick that hornet’s nest!!!!
Haha thanks! It’s up! “In solidarity with David Jenkins” go find it and comment! Thank you!
Yea
Of course I would have preferred Izzy becoming Captain of the Revenge, but I thought they handled his death well and overall I am very happy with how it ended. Especially with the Seagull landing on Izzy’s grave marker at the end. And I was thrilled that decided to Ed and Stede decided to be Inn Keepers for a while. Really hope there is a season 3 to see how that goes.
I’m not going to pretend I’m happy about it because I’m not, but anyone who is actually going after the creators with vitriol or letting this ruin the entire show for them is unhinged. The reason I’m so upset is because DJ and co are absolutely brilliant writers and made me care so bloody much about a character who by all means I shouldn’t have gotten so attached to. I’m distraught but I’m also acutely aware of the storytelling genius it takes to touch a strangers soul like that.
Right?! It’s like, thank you for writing his character in a way that made us love him in S2 but also how dare you??
I’m going to miss Izzy (and, more importantly, Con) so much but ALSO!!! We got TWO kisses, a love letter, AND the inn. It’s bittersweet for sure but there are definitely amazing things to focus on
I hate when fandoms let the parasocial attachment to an actor ruin their whole experience when something happens to their character 🙄 then they make it everyone else’s problem
This! I have my fandoms and hyper-fixations, but some people take it to an unhealthy, should consider calling their therapist level. It’s quite concerning.
Let's say I'm disappointed but not surprised. I've seen the necessary fandom dramas over the years, and you sort of hope people will be able to let it go in some other way. It's completely understandable if you're upset by the show, but for the love of god, don't harass other people over it
Some people are acting deranged, and it’s honestly kind of scary. It’s a fictional tv show—get a grip, for real.
I was def devastated that Izzy died, mostly because of Con’s amazing performance this season. HOWEVER, I’m in quite a few OFMD groups and the people are carrying on and saying how they “didn’t sleep”, were “weeping all day”, had to “call into work”…to me that is insane. It’s a show at the end of the day, no reason to get that carried away. We should be happy to have witnessed such brilliant acting from Con, even if his character got killed off (tho I’m low key hoping that somehow he gets written back into season 3 via some magical insanity). I do wish for a season 3, and that we can get a better fleshed out understanding of this new relationship between Stede and Ed. I have the utmost love and respect for Jenkins and everyone else who worked on the show!
I'm brand new to the fandom. Literally binged s1 and s2 in the days before the finale. I can totally understand why people are upset about Izzy, but isn't that kind of the point? This show made us attached to these fictional characters and feel emotions about them. Sadness and mourning is a normal response to the death of a character you care about. The fact that we feel that way speaks to how well written Izzy's character is and how great the acting performance was. It's sad that it had to be Izzy, and I get that he means a lot to a lot of people, but he also had an amazing character arc and was seemingly content with the end of his life. The writers had a plan for Izzy's story and this is the story they wanted to tell. Sometimes TV shows are gut wrenching. And it sucks. But it's better than having no emotional connection to a cast of characters and not caring about them. Also, I feel like one of the major points made about pirating in this universe is that it's dangerous and traumatizing and unpredictable. Anyone could die or get hurt at any time. It would be too plot armor-y if we made it this far without anyone dying in battle. I love the show and the fandom, but I can't stand it when people are hateful toward the creatives behind the media they love to consume because the story they wrote isn't what they wanted.
Insufferable twats. Their crybaby tantrums this afternoon basically spoiled the episode. Anyone whom takes a show this seriously needs to have their head checked. Big spoiler. Teach was reportedly shot five times and stabbed more than twenty times before he died and was decapitated. Bonnet was hanged in Charles Town.
Exactly. I was pretty annoyed to come on here earlier today to talk about how much I loved the episode to find nothing but posts irate about Izzy's death and how it ruined the show for them.
Dig the username! As a history buff, especially the Golden age of sailing, I love the show. Going to watch it no matter what. I thought the episode was brilliant and nothing short of what I am expecting, pirates are going to die. At least Izzy went out with his horse hoof peg leg on.
fandom discourse is so annoying it’s truly never that serious 😭 like tell me why they’re acting like djenks committed a hate crime
Literally!!! The “crazy” fans are making the rest of us look bad. I’m not terribly pleased with the finale, but I’m not about to start attacking people about it
Twitter (and Tumblr)'s never happy, and people can rarely view stories and characters past a 2D perspective and therefore they miss a lot of depth. In my opinion, there wasn't a way for Ed's story to progress with Izzy still in the picture. I don't think he had to *die,* but he had to leave. He's an integral tether that holds Ed to Blackbeard and he's served as Stede's foil since Season 1. Plus, Izzy's a pirate, and a ruthless one at that. Sending him off on the Revenge as captain would not help to serve the growth of the rest of the crew, especially the ones traumatized from being on Blackbeard's crew. Just because he softened up a bit, doesn't mean he's an entirely new person. In my opinion, killing Izzy off was the best way to remove his character. Not only would he probably not want to go any other way, it severs that last Blackbeard tie for Ed.
This is a great way of putting it, thank you.
This is exactly it.
Twitter is nasty.
Yes, it is.
Twitter is a cesspit for fandom in general and OFMD in particular. There are definitely things I liked and things I didn't but so much is being overblown I think.
yeah i’m genuinely happy with how it ended
It’s incredibly sad. I love this show and David and the cast and crew. Season 2 was great.
Yeeeaaaaaahhhhhh. My first reaction was “I cannot fucking believe they made me love him this season and then did that!” My second, immediately on the heels of the first, was “oh fuck, this is going to get really ugly.” Like … REALLY fucking ugly. And, well, here we are!
I use twitter for other things and whenever I've stumbled across the fandom there the takes have just made me mad. So negative and seemingly unable to just dislike something without coming up with reasons why it was morally objectionable. On here people have the largely the same issues and moans but are mostly able to discuss it normally without the dramatics, it's much nicer.
I like twitter for the gifs but yeah some people are **attached** to their vision. I've been thinking over Izzy's ending and IMO it makes sense, narratively (I have a degree on this too, I'm not just saying that). David Jenkins made great choices. And for me personally as a viewer it was a delight and I had a fantastic time.
You're right. This is an aspect of fandom that I truly despise. Why can't people just take the show as it comes and stop watching if they don't like it? It makes me furious when they go after the show runner/writers.
I’m so disappointed in like 75% of the fans on twitter and tumblr right now. It’s so disheartening to watch them all turn on the show, accuse them of queer baiting and “literally wanting me dead”(?!) b/c they projected onto Izzy. Ugh I hope DJenks and Co. are doing okay
I´ve been blocking some because they´re conveniently forgetting that the flesh and blood actor who has played the role of a pirate said he was part of the community this year. I´m pretty sure that´s the opposite of queer baiting.
These same ppl are also not wanting a 3rd season bc they're mad. Hard-core izzy stands are so selfish.
There are something that I would critique on this but not that much!? Seriously it is never warranted to attack someone because you disliked a thing they worked really hard on. I think even if it's not what you wanted these people worked hard to create something for us people to enjoy and we should!
I have to say I follow a lot of older folks on ofmd twitter (30+) and they’re all being kind and thoughtful about it, similar to what I’m seeing here. I was actually pleasantly surprised when I logged in after watching the finale later Thursday night cause of work. I have a feeling a lot of the angry fans are younger peeps. Makes me think of that James Franco meme “first time?” 😂
I loved season 2 and I think people have become victims of their own expectations.
I’m super upset about Izzy while simultaneously appreciating everything DJ & co have done in this beautiful story and I feel like they handled S2 really well. You know. Like a person with layers and nuance. Be a human to other humans even if they kill your fictional guy. It shouldn’t be this hard.
I’m so glad I decided to come on here tonight after being on Twitter all day. I’ve seen quite a few disappointing takes on the subreddit recently, but nothing compared to the out-of-pocket stuff I’ve seen on Twitter. The sense entitlement and lack of media literacy are at the point where it feels like some of these people have never watched a TV show before. Luckily I’ve seen a fair amount of people speaking up about being fans of the finale and sharing very heartfelt apologies to David Jenkins on behalf of the shitty people, but unfortunately it’s coming as a result of the toxic backlash. I was so proud of us for talking it through as a crew after fans started voicing their issues last week, but something went horribly wrong today and it feels like all the decorum is gone. I’m thankful for Reddit for being somewhat more mature and open to healthy discourse.
I went to Twitter just to see what you were getting at. Wow, so many people consider themselves better than the writers of the show. None of those people are going to get in to Black Beard’s Bar & Grill & Other Delicacies.
People may feel quite silly when in the first episode of season 3 the Seawitch makes Izzy come back for the final battle……
Right? This is a show where a dude turned into a seagull and people routinely get stabbed all the way through the torso and walk it off. They probably did this so in the event of season 3, Con doesn't have to deal with all that goes into the CGI prosthetic lol
This was a beautiful ending for Izzy! He got to tell a "minor" prince that he was a syphilitic twat and made peace with Ed! Both scenes were great!
I feel like the same thing happened with Star Wars . The little fan boys got upset when it the movies didn’t exactly do what they wanted. I feel like it’s a common theme with online fandom’s now a lot of it is just toxic. But for me, I loved the season and everything that came with it, including the tears.
I wish people would put all that energy into their own creative pursuits. Don't like it? You don't have to. You can write your own story with your own characters, and you get to control what happens! And then people can get mad at YOU when you fuck things up. NaNoWriMo starts in a few days. What a great way to channel any lingering disappointment/frustration/whatever. At any rate, yeah I was super bummed Izzy had to go. Season 2 was perfect for him. But violent lives lead to violent deaths, etc etc.
Lol this is why i stay on my very curated tumblr dashboard. Kids is crazy.
There have been some truly unhinged takes on what happened. I saw someone trying to pitch it as "the gays must die" trope, in a show where the next scene was two gay pirates getting married and two others retiring together in paradise, while another queer and non-binary couple embarked on another relationship. Someone also had the hilarious cheek to say that Izzy was the only queer and disabled representation in media. Just bafflingly irrational. It's not Bring Out Your Gays when one person on a boat full of queer characters dies and the others sail on happily. No, not even if he just discovered drag. Wee John is busy officiating a queer wedding, isn't he? Then there was an article in which DJ says, "There's no version of this show that does have Izzy in it," and "Ghosts exist in this world," and they were outraged by that, too. "Since when?" SINCE EPISODE TWO, YOU NUT. Izzy had completed his arc. He would have been a gooseberry in Ed & Stede's relationship (despite some fans wanting him to join it, that wasn't the story he was writing, that's fanfic), and he had a fake leg that is awkward to portray on screen. If they bring him back as the ghost on Ed's shoulder, they can stop dealing with that. They can also make room for other characters, like Zheng, and for Ed to grow without being co-dependent with Izzy. To be honest, it made perfect sense to me.
Y’all were sooooo fucking excited about how much the creators of this show interacted with fans. They did not have to do that, they have no obligation to like your fanart or compliment your cosplays. They don’t need to read your tweets or interact with you. And they’re sure as hell going to question ever doing that again after this absolutely embarassing behaviour from what I can only assume are overgrown spoiled children.
eh to be fair if its twitter its probably like 4 people total making accounts
What I hate the most is how that’s the platform a lot of cast and crew use to interact and I just hope they know the Twitter fan base just sucks. I’ve never seen anything like the negativity that festers on that site, it’s absolutely bananas.
Good lord, I was devastated about Izzy’s death, but it took nothing away from the wholesome ending between Stede and Ed. If anything, it was much needed to soften the blow of losing Izzy. For a show who’s brought so many people together, why are fans fighting so hard to find an issue? It’s not DJ’s fault that this season ended up the way it did, but despite it being too quick, it was still brilliant. As much as I wanted Izzy to live, his death was not in vain.
Yeah I got on Twitter after watching it, and the first person I saw was notably upset and started saying it was the “bury your gays” trope. Someone else (who clearly liked the show before) was saying they hope it gets cancelled because of this. Just doesn’t make sense to me. Like you couldn’t throw a stone on The Revenge without hitting a character that’s in the alphabet mafia. And this is the first major character death we’ve had yet out of two seasons. So what exactly? They just wanna watch a perfect sweet show where nothing bad happens and nobody dies? Where there’s no real stakes because no one could die? That’s bad storytelling. I mean they’re pirates for chrissakes. Be upset all you want, god knows I was. I cried my eyes out. But it’s ridiculous to sit around and be mad like they’re just killing off gay characters. Or mad that the fanfiction you made up in your head didn’t play out the way you wanted.
I don’t go on twitter and won’t. I overall loved the season and just hope DJ and everyone also somehow know we are out here!!
I recently broke my long Twitter hiatus against my better judgment and now I’m beginning to think more than ever it was a really bad idea. Who’s causing all the ruckus? The Steddyhands people? Not that I don’t love a few of my old Steddyhands friends, but I can see that particular group really popping off about the ending. Even though DJ basically low key warned us it was coming in advance. Edit: Not you, Tikli, Hiphop, and Spicy! I know you guys aren’t being dicks on Twitter to anybody. You guys are still cool.
Twitter was super fun all season, and somehow after this finale it's become completely rancid. I haven't checked, but I'm hoping tumblr has some better takes
Did anyone else see all the “bury your gays” accusations. Genuinely the funniest and saddest thing I’ve seen online 😂. I saw someone say well if everyone in the show is gay and you kill one they’re going to be a fruit which had me howling. Gotta laugh or you cry. But seriously all this nonsense makes me keep my distance from fandom because it brings down amazing art. Like this show FED you like no other ever has, and you’re gonna accuse it of queer baiting/bury your gays? Please be real and get off AO3 for 5 minutes
I am glad I haven't jumped on Twitter because I really don't want my euphoria to be disappointed. I loved s2 and deeply loved the finale. So many reasons, but the writing is superb. The acting is off the hook. Each and every one of them gave so much to their roles that I totally believed who they were. As much as I was in a pile of tears over Izzy's death scene with Ed, I accept that it is exactly how Izzy would have wanted to leave piracy. He said that pirates don't retire--they die. I felt he was desperate to apologize to Ed for what he considered a selfish betrayal. He wanted Blackbeard to be the Kraken until it went too far. He realized that Ed had wanted to leave piracy for a while and pushed him to stay in it because that is what served Izzy. Izzy left piracy with his death--the way pirates do. He expressed his thoughts to Ed and then found comfort in knowing that Ed would be good. I thought it was a beautiful moment and his legacy will continue. He repaired his relationship with everyone and accepted Stede's original crew as his partners in piracy. Seeing the love between Ed and Stede finally lead to them being together is what I wanted so badly. They are truly, madly in love. They have the kind of love that Mary described in s1e10, "It feels... easy. It's just like breathing. He understands my idiosyncrasies. Finds them charming, even. We expose each other to new things, new ideas. We just pass the time so well. I'd call those things love. I hope you find that." I believe that our boys have definitely found love. They not only understand each others idiosyncrasies, but they adore them. They balance each other (as Izzy saw) and hang on every word when they speak. I love this show. I love the writing, the actors, the sets and scenery (especially s2 in New Zealand), the costumes, the entire crew that makes this happen. The show has done a lot for me personally. I have always been an LBGQT+ ally, but want to do better and understand more of how I can help. By truly listening to everyone, I become more and more aware of how it must feel to be treated as less than for being one's authentic self instead of what societal norms state. The relationships in this show were so pure and lovely to watch and I melted for each and every one of them. I could care less what anyone's sexuality is, how they identify, etc. I just love them for who they are. If I am not expressing myself correctly--I assure you I am open to learning more and understanding. I long for the day when everyone's lifestyle is normalized and it isn't a big deal at all--where it doesn't shock people to see 2 men kissing and be in a loving relationship. That is why I love this show so much. I'm invested in each person because I love what they put out in the world. I am grateful for every single person who make this treasure for us and I will sing their praises every where I go. I love my rom-con pirate show and no one is knocking me down from my high.
Imagine explaining to the real ghosts of Edward Teach, Stede Bonnet and Israel hands that people would rage over their cultural heritage. “I buggered Bonnet?! EW! I hate that guy!” (Irl Edward Teach REALLY did.) “hey!!! I got to live past 30! Neat! And I got a unicorn leg! … they’re fighting about what now?!…” Id’ pay a medium for this conversation.
I didn’t realize a big chunk of fans were doing that! Kinda bonkers that people who also claim to love a show with themes of kindness and understanding that tells people not to be toxic were so… well toxic. I totally fell for Izzy this season, but I was prepared because quite literally he was giving the lesson about moving on. The fact he died makes it a great test to practice moving on that some have already failed . I just get so heated when some people who are into these themes can just throw it out the window so fast at an opportunity. Its a common thing in the Doctor Who fanbase. Watch a show about change and kindness but choose to forget it irl. People gotta stop being dicks. If they gotta vent, journal it. Going online to vent isn’t always a good idea especially when directed at others. It’s easy to dehumanize people when you only see text and profile pic. I find it so baffling but I shouldn’t at this point.
I'm heartbroken that we lost Izzy and honestly would have much preferred that he got to live, but holy shit, the way people are talking about David Jenkins is disgusting. I've seen people flat out say it's saying that "people like them" don't deserve to live, as if one queer character out of 86 dying is "bury your gays". The sheer scope of the moral bullshit people have slapped onto this because they're upset that a character died, I swear.
I understand the frustration of having Izzy’s character, one that many people saw themselves in, die just after seemingly accepting himself as he was. He died with unresolved trauma, without experiencing healthy, reciprocated love and only got a chance at true self-expression and acceptance (the scene of his La Vie on Rose rendition was one of the most memorable moments of the season). However, some people seem to miss the fact that not all stories (queer or not) have happy endings in real life. Many people go unexpectedly, meet their ends untimely and leave unresolved issues and pain behind. That is only a realistic representation of life, and even more of a pirate’s. I’m happy he got the camaraderie he longed from his crew in his final days and that he was allowed to die in the arms of the man that he loved, even if it felt unjust and too soon (but then again, that’s what the song from the literal opening scene for the show tells us: “a pirate’s life, short but nice”.)
I was sad but also loved the entire experience and absolutely want more.
Twitter is an absolute dumpster fire, and half of it is just bots just trying to foment outage.
Yeah I swear the algorithm pushes the negative stuff to the top.
it’s giving eddie munson stans lowkey
I am sad but I loved the ending. I’ll be mourning Izzy for a long time, but fuck it if Edward needed that wakeup call to be allowed to be himself 😭 I never knew I could feel so many emotions in just 30 minutes. I love this show so much.
It was sad, I loved Izzy. But I rewatched the whole show including the finale yesterday and it's a completely valid way for his story to end! Can't wait to see where they go from here.
Some people lose sight of good storytelling when they’re attached and invested. We’re all allowed to hope for a different ending/plotline, but not entitled to anything and everything our little hearts demand. That’s what fanfiction is for. It’s astounding to me that we have been given everything in fan-service, but this powerful storytelling device (saying goodbye to a complex character in an emotional and well-earned way) is somehow unacceptable, especially when it’s been executed so well… All of these characters will meet their end eventually and this is so true to Izzy’s character, it’s all the more heart-wrenching. That’s incredible storytelling. This isn’t a “kill the queer/queer-coded character” situation, this is a beautifully fitting end for a remarkable story arc. I haven’t come across any negative posts yet but I’ve only just started checking out the subreddit in the last couple of hours (every so gently) and I’m not on twitter or tumblr anymore. However, storytelling is my profession and I’m critical of both the storytellers and an unprepared (even childish) audience, so I’m fully expecting some annoying takes. And yeah, I know how pretentious that sounds…but I did my time on tumblr, I know how self-righteous folks can get when they’re surrounded by others feeling the same powerful emotions and refusing to take a step back to appreciate the overall story. Often, I find that it’s warranted. In this case, I can’t imagine any argument against this episode other than “I wanted everyone to live happily ever after and never face their own death, even when their beautiful character arc demands it happen on-screen.”
Literally ended how I expected it to..and tbh...how I wanted it to. It was so obvious that Izzy was gonna go, especially with the amount of injuries he’d sustained too, and it was obvious even last episode that his arc had come full circle so it was peak time to send him off.
Honestly. I was so happy after I watched the finale and these fan reactions really ruined my day. I cannot believe how vile people are being, especially towards dj. People are genuinely accusing him of homophobia? Calling izzy's death a case of bury your gays? It's like they're trying soooo hard not to understand these concepts just so they can shit all over a truly exceptional show merely bc their lil fave died. I also cried when izzy died but man. It's a television show character. People are acting as if David killed Con for real. Glad to see there are people who enjoyed the finale/s2!
I'm a casual fan, like i enjoy the show but don't engage in the fandom side. People on twitter are acting unhinged. I think fan culture was a mistake lol
Honesty, I'm more pissed off at MAX than anyone/thing else. If they had given us a 10+ episode season, I really truly believe this last episode could've been slowed the hell down and made into AT LEAST 3 separate episodes. It was too much happening in such a short amount of time because they HAD to wrap the season up and only had 30 minutes to do so.
It surprises me to see there’s any type of backlash. I really enjoyed the season and the finale. It was a gut punch. But I love the story they’re telling. Honestly I’m not on many socials so I haven’t really see any reactions besides what on this sub. But I thought the story has been great. And losing Izzy broke my heart, as it should. Because the story/character development has been great. And the way he went out. Was beautifully done. I can’t imagine a better ending for a character.
I was sad about Izzy's death. But narratively it worked well; it made sense for his arc. Emotionally also: Izzy got a fantastic dying scene, a hero's death, with a weeping friend and a moving speech. And acting-wise: I keep seeing in my head the understated way in which Con played the moment he was shot. It was so subtle that I missed it first time round. Brilliantly in character for stoic Izzy who had so few happinesses in his life but lives his last few months to the full. And feeling big emotions? That's the aim of art. The show gave us heartripping s1e10 and without it we wouldn't have been so emotionally engaged. It's a comedy but it's not fluff.
Just came over here from Twitter since that’s my primary social media I feel comfortable using. I’ve never been involved with an online fandom before but I thought I would give it a go for OFMD season 2. I didn’t know what was normal and what was not during this whole thing until someone posted I should just check out FB or Reddit because they’re a lot more level-headed right now in this fandom. *Whew* I have to say, coming to this Reddit thread feels like a breath of fresh air. THANK YOU!!!!!
They’re missing the point - Blackbeard had to die for Ed to be able to live. Izzy was keeping Blackbeard alive. Therefore, Izzy had to die for Ed to be able to live, symbolically. Sorry if it’s already been said by another commenter.
Con has spoken about finding filming this show a struggle and demanding. For all we know he wanted writing off. Izzy was never the fan favourite last season, everyone thought he was a prick and a homophobe. But this season he threw on some drag makeup so now killing him is a crime against the fans?? How!?
Twitter being twitter
People really need to separate fiction form reality and realize not everything is gonna go their way. That’s why we have fanfics and fanart. Humanity man
How dare you write a character so great that I love him so much and end the show with his impactful death, are you a homophobe?
This is ridiculous. I have enjoyed watching Con in a number of films and series and whatever I think about Izzy being written out of the story, it is exactly that, a story. It broke a lot of tropes and was an absolute pleasure to watch. I look forward to watching whatever Con has got lined up next, I can´t imagine him not being inundated with parts that interest him, where he can showcase his acting props. Any other reaction is imho disrespectful and uncalled for and it´s not helping get S03 signed up either.
It's genuinely disturbing. I fully get having comfort verses and comfort characters but there's something so nasty and unhinged about the way certain parts of the fandom are reacting to the finale.
I didn't like how they went about Izzy's death and I didn't like the pacing but some people take things way to far
Wow I'm so confused by what's going on here haha. I enjoyed this season and poked in this morning to see what the word is.....Izzy was great this season. I cried when he died. Now I can't wait for season 3..what am I doing wrong??
I feel the exact same way! My partner and I finished the second season last night. I laughed, I cried, I was so moved and entertained! I was sad Izzy died but so proud of his character arc! I was satisfied. I’m genuinely baffled at the hatred and anger so many “fans” have!?! Like….if you hate the show maybe don’t watch it and stick to fanfic!!!!? And leave the poor cast and crew alone, they just had the longest strike in entertainment history!!! Let them have fun and entertain us!
s2 was great and the finale was fine. idk why people are so upset.
People are so dumb 1) Izzy gets best arc 2) izzy fans melt down