“Did you know that when my friend hops on the game they destroy as doom”. He is a guy guess what the pronouns still work. Idk why people make a fuss over it but I don’t really care I ignore the comments about it. They/them is basic English we use for singular people and groups of people.
>Venture being non binary is being treated like that is THE main focus of the character when, as far as I can tell, is just a side note on their wiki page.
It really isn't. The only reason we even know Venture is non-binary is because devs on Twitter pointed it out.
Venture's announcement video doesn't mention it, and Blizzard's official channels have not made a point of marketing their identity outside of using the correct pronouns.
I think OP means it's dominating discussion of the character with everyone falling over each other to correct or complain, depending on their stance. You're right that it's not a centerpiece of the character according to Blizzard.
>"They? Blizzard is releasing more than one character?"
Do people really not understand singular they? I've always used they when referring to a single person if I don't know their gender, and I've never had someone get confused about it
People who use this argument, 90% of the time, are deliberately misunderstanding to provoke a reaction. For some reason, they reject the idea of non-binary on an emotional level so there's no point arguing with them. It's literally just bait
People will gladly use they in the context of not knowing the gender of someone they're talking about, but if it's a non binary person they lose their shit
1. Not every one is a nativ speaker.
2. Many languages have vastly different grammatical structures, so ppl will mix things up unintentional.
3. The main definition of "they" is not the unspecified gender pronoun, but the main definition is what is learnd in schools.
This whole thing just makes me think of when we had mask mandates and you’d see videos of old Karen’s complaining that they “can’t breathe” under the masks or that they “can’t figure out” how it helps. You see them in real physical distress and literally crying in pain that they don’t want to do something as simple as put a piece of cloth or what have you over their faces.
The online bickery just reeks of privilege.
Most people don’t. It’s always the small loud minority (chronically online) that word these posts and their arguments in a way to imply that this issue is “hard to understand for common people”. It really isn’t.
The only ones i've seen make an issue are you, first and foremost and those deliberately being antagonistic saying *"They're?!!1 i thought there was only person"* or *"SHEEEEEE is a cool new hero, SHEEEE"* \- other than that there's people who don't know Venture is NB and then those simply using "they're" which is super easy to adjust to.
This argument that anyone other than a regular straight person is evil corporate greed is a tiresome argument that will perpetually gatekeep minorities from our media. We shouldn't have to default to straight/white until we have a masterfully crafted Pulitzer prize story from an independent self-published writer to justify their existence in things we like. Call them what you want, and ok you might be corrected - not the worst outcome (although that's been very rare on this sub so far).
I’ve definitely seen people doing it all over tiktok, every comment thread is basically like OP says so they aren’t wrong. I don’t use Reddit as much nowadays so I can’t speak for that
it is v frustrating for me as a trans person for people to say things such as
"being vicariously offended for a fictional character is inherently a bit ridiculous. Using the discussion of Venture as a battleground for gender politics and/or ideology will not change the hearts and minds of those who have already decided against the use of pronouns, but will push away people who are in middle who are stonewalled for a mistake or misunderstanding."
because it's not just about venture. venture is not a real person, but the people seeing wanton misgendering are. and it just fucking sucks to see it in real life all day countless times and then it also bleed into what is supposed to be entertaining you. it feels like grace is given to everyone in this entire debate except trans people.
Yup I feel you. People get caught up on the fictional character part and aren’t thinking about how it feels in relation to the people that character represents. It’s the principal of it.
And I’ve had people say oh I’ll use peoples preferred pronouns in real life, but not in a game because it doesn’t matter. To me that just says “I know no one and have no intention of associating with a trans person so I don’t ever have to do this and so I don’t really care,” or it’s just disingenuous allyship.
I’m tired and I wish I could just forcibly block out all this content until the shit storm relaxes, but I can’t stop myself from looking because a little part of me is hoping I’ll find no one being malicious or at the very least an overwhelming majority being supportive and kind.
to me when they say something like that, it just feels like they're telling us they don't see us who we are, they just use our pronouns to assuage us, and sometimes that feels worse to me than a bigot.
i understand completely, because i do the same thing. check desperately in hope of support and kindness and a little love, only to see us being seen as the problem again :/ it's exhausting.
>“I know no one and have no intention of associating with a trans person so I don’t ever have to do this and so I don’t really care,” or it’s just disingenuous allyship.
I mean, trans people are like less than 2% of the U.S. population. So you can't assume that a person doesn't want to associate given the odds they couldn't even find someone. Throw in geographics and it's probably less than .00001% in certain areas like the South.
I acknowledge and agree that the discussions surrounding the non binary status of Venture represent people who identify with them. The difference between Venture and other fictional non binary characters like Raine Whispers or Stevonnie are the consistency of how they are represented. Regardless of where you watch The Owl House, Raine is non binary. Using Venture, who isn't consistently representing non binary people by their own creators, is objectively a poor avatar to use when discussing the validity of pronouns with not only the people who don't agree with them, but especially to people who live in countries where Venture is demonstrated by their own creators as she/her.
when i see people correct others on here it's
"\*they/them"
"Go fuck yourself"
i'm sure your point is fair for a number of people but i don't think that point is all-encompassing nor as frequent as the fact people just don't care for us.
Yes, I agree that hostility, anamosity, and any form of antagonism towards non binary people is entirely unacceptable.
My point is that in an exchange where we are talking about Venture specifically, if someone were to refer to them as "she/her", they aren't even wrong because of their own creators inconsistent representation. Because Venture is a fictional character that has no personal agency. People are using Venture as an avatar to represent their own non binary pronoun preferences when Venture has no consistency between they / them and she / her because of the way their own creators chose to inconsistently represent them.
I mean, she looks like a girl, has a female voice, and has a bubbly, female personality. There wasn't much consideration into it, the average person will see this hero and assume, "that a girl with a drill."
It's annoying simply because, anytime you use "him" or "her" when referring to venture... the 'community' reflexively reacts as if you're giving them a veiled middle finger. They can't accept that *maybe* someone just made a mistake.
It's like how my belief in God often has people laughing in my face and treating me like I'm dumb. And all I can do is accept it and say "okay, I guess you think I'm an idiot... that's your right". But if I tried to report anyone or ban them over that fact, **I'd** be in the wrong. Why is this any different?
Honest question and not trying to hurt anyone, but even the fact that I have to make this disclaimer is like "why does it have to be this way?"
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It's a mistake I make most often when speaking aloud because I was taught fairly traditional English. For a large portion of my study, if referring to someone whose gender was unclear, I'd say he/she, he or she, etc.
Combined with my being a bit of a hermit, I really hadn't met many people who requested to be referred to otherwise until later in life.
So I get people slipping up, that's fine. People should take gentle corrections in stride, though, and make an effort.
My main issue with that hero is how hideous the design is. I get it, i respect the non binary but why uglify the hero? Legit. Only saving grace that hero has is the voice acting.
Meh, as soon as skins hit we'll all be using them instead anyway. I do agree that the voice actor nailed it, something about their goofy wave when they say 'hi' had me like "I can dig it".
Don't blame the devs, blame society and the community, who are demonstrably the ones that are making the comments and doing the things you rightly mentioned.
The devs can't win. They don't add diversity, people start shitting all over them for having "only white men!!" or whatever. They *do* add diversity, and people just cannot help but make a point of correcting others or bringing it up.
Give it a month and let the community settle the fuck down, and then we'll be good.
Will it die down though? Soldier 76 coming out as gay years after the launch of the game is something that has to be mentioned outside casual conversation of the character. When talking about Venture in any capacity, pronouns are a natural part of the casual conversation, which kicks up the same non binary discourse over and over and over.
Yep. This. Here in Eastern Europe we didn't even receive those meager pride month cosmetics because we as a region are banned from participating by Blizzard. Why? Fuck if I know. I bet top dollar that here Venture is she/her by default.
You don't have to agree with me, but people who keep replying they/them are killing the hype for this character. Not just on Reddit, but everywhere. You think you are winning something by doing so, you are not.
I agree that outright bigotry should be shamed into the dirt where it belongs, except when people call Venture "she / her" , they wouldnt even even be wrong because of Blizzard's inconsistent representation.
That's a very selective way of seeing this, because every time someone misgenders the character on purpose or entirely on accident, you will get people derailing the conversation, tripping over themselves to correct the person. I'd say that both sides get their panties in a bunch over this.
this is less a problem of people overreacting and more a problem of young men never being taught that acknowledging your mistakes with good grace is part of being a well adjusted human being and it's super easy to do. here's how it goes:
'she-'
'they'
'whoops, sorry, my bad'
'no worries'
'anyway, they-'
gg ez
“Did you know that when my friend hops on the game they destroy as doom”. He is a guy guess what the pronouns still work. Idk why people make a fuss over it but I don’t really care I ignore the comments about it. They/them is basic English we use for singular people and groups of people.
>Venture being non binary is being treated like that is THE main focus of the character when, as far as I can tell, is just a side note on their wiki page. It really isn't. The only reason we even know Venture is non-binary is because devs on Twitter pointed it out. Venture's announcement video doesn't mention it, and Blizzard's official channels have not made a point of marketing their identity outside of using the correct pronouns.
I think OP means it's dominating discussion of the character with everyone falling over each other to correct or complain, depending on their stance. You're right that it's not a centerpiece of the character according to Blizzard.
I should have been clearer on my end, I meant to refer to the discussions surrounding Venture tend to end up focusing on their non binary pronouns.
Probably because the internet is full of people who want to make a big deal out of it.
That is what you said. OC just didn't understand
You misunderstood what OP meant. OP was saying it’s treated that way by the people in the discussions, not blizzard.
“And it’s blizzard’s fault”
did you read the whole post?
Agreed but I feel like this will be controversial
bro anyone saying the “are they releasing more than one” thing isn’t confused, they’re just being a prick
>"They? Blizzard is releasing more than one character?" Do people really not understand singular they? I've always used they when referring to a single person if I don't know their gender, and I've never had someone get confused about it
People who use this argument, 90% of the time, are deliberately misunderstanding to provoke a reaction. For some reason, they reject the idea of non-binary on an emotional level so there's no point arguing with them. It's literally just bait
People will gladly use they in the context of not knowing the gender of someone they're talking about, but if it's a non binary person they lose their shit
1. Not every one is a nativ speaker. 2. Many languages have vastly different grammatical structures, so ppl will mix things up unintentional. 3. The main definition of "they" is not the unspecified gender pronoun, but the main definition is what is learnd in schools.
This whole thing just makes me think of when we had mask mandates and you’d see videos of old Karen’s complaining that they “can’t breathe” under the masks or that they “can’t figure out” how it helps. You see them in real physical distress and literally crying in pain that they don’t want to do something as simple as put a piece of cloth or what have you over their faces. The online bickery just reeks of privilege.
I’ve had no issue
Most people don’t. It’s always the small loud minority (chronically online) that word these posts and their arguments in a way to imply that this issue is “hard to understand for common people”. It really isn’t.
The only ones i've seen make an issue are you, first and foremost and those deliberately being antagonistic saying *"They're?!!1 i thought there was only person"* or *"SHEEEEEE is a cool new hero, SHEEEE"* \- other than that there's people who don't know Venture is NB and then those simply using "they're" which is super easy to adjust to. This argument that anyone other than a regular straight person is evil corporate greed is a tiresome argument that will perpetually gatekeep minorities from our media. We shouldn't have to default to straight/white until we have a masterfully crafted Pulitzer prize story from an independent self-published writer to justify their existence in things we like. Call them what you want, and ok you might be corrected - not the worst outcome (although that's been very rare on this sub so far).
I’ve definitely seen people doing it all over tiktok, every comment thread is basically like OP says so they aren’t wrong. I don’t use Reddit as much nowadays so I can’t speak for that
There sure have been a few articles right here talking about Venture for something that's impossible to talk about...
Yeah if you are having trouble understanding English that’s on you
Sorry but nobody is honestly having trouble understanding Venture's pronouns or having trouble discussing their kit its alllll in bad faith lol.
it is v frustrating for me as a trans person for people to say things such as "being vicariously offended for a fictional character is inherently a bit ridiculous. Using the discussion of Venture as a battleground for gender politics and/or ideology will not change the hearts and minds of those who have already decided against the use of pronouns, but will push away people who are in middle who are stonewalled for a mistake or misunderstanding." because it's not just about venture. venture is not a real person, but the people seeing wanton misgendering are. and it just fucking sucks to see it in real life all day countless times and then it also bleed into what is supposed to be entertaining you. it feels like grace is given to everyone in this entire debate except trans people.
Yup I feel you. People get caught up on the fictional character part and aren’t thinking about how it feels in relation to the people that character represents. It’s the principal of it. And I’ve had people say oh I’ll use peoples preferred pronouns in real life, but not in a game because it doesn’t matter. To me that just says “I know no one and have no intention of associating with a trans person so I don’t ever have to do this and so I don’t really care,” or it’s just disingenuous allyship. I’m tired and I wish I could just forcibly block out all this content until the shit storm relaxes, but I can’t stop myself from looking because a little part of me is hoping I’ll find no one being malicious or at the very least an overwhelming majority being supportive and kind.
to me when they say something like that, it just feels like they're telling us they don't see us who we are, they just use our pronouns to assuage us, and sometimes that feels worse to me than a bigot. i understand completely, because i do the same thing. check desperately in hope of support and kindness and a little love, only to see us being seen as the problem again :/ it's exhausting.
>“I know no one and have no intention of associating with a trans person so I don’t ever have to do this and so I don’t really care,” or it’s just disingenuous allyship. I mean, trans people are like less than 2% of the U.S. population. So you can't assume that a person doesn't want to associate given the odds they couldn't even find someone. Throw in geographics and it's probably less than .00001% in certain areas like the South.
I acknowledge and agree that the discussions surrounding the non binary status of Venture represent people who identify with them. The difference between Venture and other fictional non binary characters like Raine Whispers or Stevonnie are the consistency of how they are represented. Regardless of where you watch The Owl House, Raine is non binary. Using Venture, who isn't consistently representing non binary people by their own creators, is objectively a poor avatar to use when discussing the validity of pronouns with not only the people who don't agree with them, but especially to people who live in countries where Venture is demonstrated by their own creators as she/her.
when i see people correct others on here it's "\*they/them" "Go fuck yourself" i'm sure your point is fair for a number of people but i don't think that point is all-encompassing nor as frequent as the fact people just don't care for us.
I have never seen someone say go fuck yourself when someone corrected them
you can literally go on my profile and see me talking to one such lol
Okay just one, I haven’t seen any so there aren’t that many people having that reaction.
Yes, I agree that hostility, anamosity, and any form of antagonism towards non binary people is entirely unacceptable. My point is that in an exchange where we are talking about Venture specifically, if someone were to refer to them as "she/her", they aren't even wrong because of their own creators inconsistent representation. Because Venture is a fictional character that has no personal agency. People are using Venture as an avatar to represent their own non binary pronoun preferences when Venture has no consistency between they / them and she / her because of the way their own creators chose to inconsistently represent them.
I heard a lot of people referring to Venture as her yesterday. I wonder how much hiring a female voice actor to voice *them affects it
I mean, she looks like a girl, has a female voice, and has a bubbly, female personality. There wasn't much consideration into it, the average person will see this hero and assume, "that a girl with a drill."
the fuck is a 'female personality' lol
Female gender?
She acts like a girl
>She acts like a girl True, she acts just like Zarya, Junkerqueen, Ashe - all also women, prancing around being all bubbly n' cute UwU
I just want a hero that farts a lot.
Hell yeah
Apex already did that a while ago
It's annoying simply because, anytime you use "him" or "her" when referring to venture... the 'community' reflexively reacts as if you're giving them a veiled middle finger. They can't accept that *maybe* someone just made a mistake. It's like how my belief in God often has people laughing in my face and treating me like I'm dumb. And all I can do is accept it and say "okay, I guess you think I'm an idiot... that's your right". But if I tried to report anyone or ban them over that fact, **I'd** be in the wrong. Why is this any different? Honest question and not trying to hurt anyone, but even the fact that I have to make this disclaimer is like "why does it have to be this way?"
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it's nobodys fault. it's a simple mistake to get the pronouns wrong and if it was not by accident then it's the commenters fault.
It's a mistake I make most often when speaking aloud because I was taught fairly traditional English. For a large portion of my study, if referring to someone whose gender was unclear, I'd say he/she, he or she, etc. Combined with my being a bit of a hermit, I really hadn't met many people who requested to be referred to otherwise until later in life. So I get people slipping up, that's fine. People should take gentle corrections in stride, though, and make an effort.
And still, here i am... Native on a language without gender pronouns, friendly as a fuckless fuck on a free fuck day. FEELS GOOD
My main issue with that hero is how hideous the design is. I get it, i respect the non binary but why uglify the hero? Legit. Only saving grace that hero has is the voice acting.
Meh, as soon as skins hit we'll all be using them instead anyway. I do agree that the voice actor nailed it, something about their goofy wave when they say 'hi' had me like "I can dig it".
She looks like she came out from the garbage truck and the face looks like someone drew it with an oversized marker
Don't blame the devs, blame society and the community, who are demonstrably the ones that are making the comments and doing the things you rightly mentioned. The devs can't win. They don't add diversity, people start shitting all over them for having "only white men!!" or whatever. They *do* add diversity, and people just cannot help but make a point of correcting others or bringing it up. Give it a month and let the community settle the fuck down, and then we'll be good.
Will it die down though? Soldier 76 coming out as gay years after the launch of the game is something that has to be mentioned outside casual conversation of the character. When talking about Venture in any capacity, pronouns are a natural part of the casual conversation, which kicks up the same non binary discourse over and over and over.
Yep. This. Here in Eastern Europe we didn't even receive those meager pride month cosmetics because we as a region are banned from participating by Blizzard. Why? Fuck if I know. I bet top dollar that here Venture is she/her by default.
You don't have to agree with me, but people who keep replying they/them are killing the hype for this character. Not just on Reddit, but everywhere. You think you are winning something by doing so, you are not.
You mean bigots derail conversation about them, by getting their panties in a twist about pronouns? That's not Blizzard fault. Shame the bigots.
I agree that outright bigotry should be shamed into the dirt where it belongs, except when people call Venture "she / her" , they wouldnt even even be wrong because of Blizzard's inconsistent representation.
That's a very selective way of seeing this, because every time someone misgenders the character on purpose or entirely on accident, you will get people derailing the conversation, tripping over themselves to correct the person. I'd say that both sides get their panties in a bunch over this.
this is less a problem of people overreacting and more a problem of young men never being taught that acknowledging your mistakes with good grace is part of being a well adjusted human being and it's super easy to do. here's how it goes: 'she-' 'they' 'whoops, sorry, my bad' 'no worries' 'anyway, they-' gg ez