Imagine you're talking about someone who's gender you don't know, e.g. a delivery person. You'd say "they are delivering the parcel tomorrow". Same thing :)
My group refers to them as “Drill Bitch.” To clarify, “bitch” in this context is meant to be equated with something like “asshole” rather than a gender.
The West has really dropped the ball on this. Is transgender a natural phenomena? Of course. But it is also associated with things like gender disphoria mental illness and trauma. Every case should be treated differently
We certainly shouldn't be performing surgeries or giving hormone blockers to children. We have never seen a medical field so readily take such extremes on a national level without data on any possible repercussions to the patients long term well being
We shouldn't be stripping back women's rights by allowing transgender to dominate their sports and take opportunities from women. Nor should we take away their safe spaces like bathrooms. It may take some time but they should have their own sports leagues and let's normalize gender neutral washrooms in the West
Nor should we be pushing identity politics on children. Upto 50% of children at certain American and European schools identify as transgender. As if kids can grasp complex issues like this let alone even know who they truly are. It's a fad sure and most of them will grow out of it but that doesn't mean it can't be harmful or confusing to blindly reaffirm everyone
Hopefully we can meet respectfully in the center. We need less extremes of disrespect, hate and transgender isn't real non-sense as well as the other extreme. Peace and love as we are all in this together
Venture, like the rest of tthe cast isnt real. If i called Doomfist a monkey he will have the same reaction as if i called venture they. If anyone gets mad/insults you for not using their preferred pronouns just mute them. If you're only doing this to show support to the LGBTQ community. Congrats you've achieved nothing. You've sat behind your computer screen and gendered a fiction character correctly, Instead of actually going outside and showing support. Which is now more important then ever if you've paid attention to any politics lately.
small things matter too. someone who doesn't personally know you may think that if you misgender a fictional character, you would probably misgender a real person as well. it doesn't matter if you wouldn't actually do that, it's still the message you're sending.
Honestly? I just use she/her for Venture. Is it correct? Some will say no. I will say I dont care. Ease of communication is more important to me than not offending a fictional character.
And if someone gets offended on behalf of a fictional character, well, that's very much a they/them problem.
They are
From a language perspective, treat it like you're talking about an unknown person
(The pizza person is coming to deliver the pizza "they are on their way")
(You see a figure down the road "Who are they?")
Does me referring to them by a given pronoun give me a competitive advantage in game? No? Does it matter at all then if it’s a fictional character? Not really. I typically say the name of the character rather than their gender since it’s easier to say ‘Widow up top’ then ‘she up top’ cause the second thing doesn’t actually give any info about who’s on top.
The person is asking what other people use when talking about Venture. I said I use the characters name instead of using pronouns since nobody can get mad for using the name of a character and it just makes life so much easier.
It's a vaguely female looking and sounding bunch of pixels so I say 'she'.
If it were a living human that requested to be called 'they' instead, then I would do so.
Love the people who go out of their way to purposely mis gender a character... Do you want us to applaud you? Do you want a pat on the back? Well tough titty cus you're getting neither.
Your comment is ironic, considering how you're the only one getting their knickers twisted lol. Just say they and be done with it. A three year old could do it, I believe in you.
Typical, you attack someone for no reason and when you get called out on your behavior, you cave instantly. I’ll call cartoon characters whatever I damn well please.
Cope.
The fact this is a conversation at all to me is funny. Why do people care about this? None of these characters exist. If I called hog her or reinhardt she what does it matter to you? They don't exist. Don't expect everyone to care about playing make believe soapbox superiority complex as much as you do. It's all a nothing burger and it's goofy to me game studios go out of their way to elaborate such useless details about a fictional character. I play a competitive fps shooter based off of what is fun to me, not who identifies as a carrot or whatever other inclusive thing.
It amuses me that the people who say "it doesn't matter" are always the ones so gung-ho about purposefully mis gendering characters. You have to actively *think* about mis gendering Venture, they are about as androgynous as a character could get lmao
I don't have to actively think about it. It's just natural to hear a female voice, see female body structure, see female facial structure, and then proceed to refer to them as such as the English language was made and taught to do. I hear a female voice pop out of the ground and my reflex most of the time is just to say Venture is by 'x', but when someone mentions venture I by reflex usually end up saying "she is over there" or something to that effect. There's just a large part of the population who does not interact with non-binary individuals in their day to day life or have to think about these things especially when it comes to a non-existent character in a competitive FPS game. If you want to refer to them as they/them go for it I'm not going to hear that and call you out and be like "uh, ahckshually it's she" because that's just fucking weird. I don't care, and not once in any game have I ever thought about something like this before it became a big stink with this character. It's so god damn weird to me.
Words to live by- you should recite your mantra in the mirror before logging onto Reddit to save yourself the embarrassment of acting like a self-righteous douchebag.
Correct- you’re *not* coping, you *need* to cope. That’s the fucking point, Einstein.
Why would I need to cope? I'm actively reaping the benefits of not being a cunt to everyone who isn't me. You may trade personal insults with me all day long for all I care, I will die knowing that my life isn't so shallow that a fictional character being referred to as they/them gets me all hot and bothered :)
No you’ll just die knowing someone referring to a fictional character as “she” gets you so hot and bothered, in case you haven’t noticed that’s what this whole conversation is about; *That’s* the hill you’re so determined to die on.
Oh and by the way, you *were* a fucking cunt which is what started this whole mess. Why don’t you go reread your comment and reflect on that instead of being a sanctimonious jackass. Go take some responsibility for yourself. You’re not some noble soul here, you’re a self-righteous prick.
Its a still a fictional character, myself or anyone else shouldnt get harassed because they misidentified a fictional character so instead of bringing gender identity into the game, let me play it without the fear of being mass reported just because I or anyone else here called venture he/she.
>let me play it without the fear of being mass reported
I really don't think you should be victimizing yourself when you choose to use the wrong grammar. It's just the tradeoff of your choice
So instead of learning from the experience you double down and invite more arguments? sound logic... And don't give me that "It's not easy" bs, I made that mistake *once* when I didn't know their gender, and when informed of my mistake, simply apologised and corrected it, no hassle.
If I can do it, so can everyone else.
I dont like using too much of my brain (I'm lazy) if I say in chat "that was awesome dude" and they responded "Can you use my pronouns attack helicopter/ f1 car? That really aggravated me being called dude." I'm not taking the time to apologise to some one I have a near negligible chance of ever meeting again, Yes great one person got angry but who truly cares? Bite me. One small bout of anger they'll overcome and get on with their attack helicopter life and me? I wont have to think about that f1 car again. but because "i dont care" Im in the wrong so go on your holy knight crusade about how I must change the errors of my way.
Did you run out of combacks Mr.PC? Or should i call you Mx.PC? Or maybe you self identify as an Apache attack helicopter? Apache attack helicopter.PC its really homophobic of you to associate the word gay as a derogatory term. Please refrain from doing so in the future to increase your PCness.
Oh I'm sorry does my witty remarks at poking fun of the absurdity of modern PC culture offended you? Oh do accept my apology of not calling you a they them because it might shatter your fragile ego when you hear terms other than those.
it wasn't even witty back then, i promise you.. get new material bozo. also im just laughing at you trying so hard to "offend' me but you just make yourself look like an absolute loser.
Ah yes name calling and shouting YOUR NOT FUNNY instead of coming up with original insults. The signs of a man on his last stand with an empty head and no intelligence in his head noggin. Indeed i am the loser and you the winner.
your insults are the same "attack apache helicopter" jokes that are at least 12 years old, how is that original? also its kinda funny how you keep assuming im either a man or non binary myself, but im not surprised since clearly no woman ever talks to you.
now you're just acting stupid. singular they has been used since the 14th century. if i told you, "i wanna introduce you to my friend sam" you don't know what gender sam is, because its a unisex name. so you would say "can't wait to meet them" it's not that hard to understand.
Let's say. So in theory I can't use “them” when Sam and I have already met, because I already know the person's appearance. So “they” is a temporary substitute that doesn’t make much sense.
Voice, body structure, facial structure, etc. Not traditionally feminine but easily identifiable to anyone with eyes. If you did not tell anyone about their made up lore of what a 3d character that does not exist identifies as they would be acknowledged as female.
No, it is not. People are mistaken for the opposite sex often in real life. Venture is not traditionally feminine but it is quite obvious that their sex is female. They wear a baggy coat but their leg/hip shape is obviously female, and so is their facial structure and voice. They are more androgenous and I expect that design detail was purposeful to support their they/them preference. I just think this whole topic is completely unhinged and not based in reality. It's legitimately one of the dumbest things I've seen in a long time.
I'm not studying anything, I am using my eyes to look at them. You asked what characteristics and I told you. The human brain has evolved to recognize male and female characteristics. If this concept is lost on you, then maybe seek further education.
that's absolutely stupid, really shows you got nothing 😂 you do realise there are women with deep voices and men with high pitched ones? that's not a good way to try to identify
The singular ‘they’ is not new to the english language and has been grammatically correct for a LONG time. You and the people around you have almost certainly used it casually in conversation before and have just not noticed.
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im non binary and i prefer "they are". Its the most logical, i dont see a reason why you would use "they is". Maybe there are non binary folks out there that prefer "they is" but i doubt it.
They are. Just use the same form as you would for usual "they"
Thanks :) good to know
Imagine you're talking about someone who's gender you don't know, e.g. a delivery person. You'd say "they are delivering the parcel tomorrow". Same thing :)
True
wtf has this sub turned into. yh i am done with it
My group refers to them as “Drill Bitch.” To clarify, “bitch” in this context is meant to be equated with something like “asshole” rather than a gender.
The West has really dropped the ball on this. Is transgender a natural phenomena? Of course. But it is also associated with things like gender disphoria mental illness and trauma. Every case should be treated differently We certainly shouldn't be performing surgeries or giving hormone blockers to children. We have never seen a medical field so readily take such extremes on a national level without data on any possible repercussions to the patients long term well being We shouldn't be stripping back women's rights by allowing transgender to dominate their sports and take opportunities from women. Nor should we take away their safe spaces like bathrooms. It may take some time but they should have their own sports leagues and let's normalize gender neutral washrooms in the West Nor should we be pushing identity politics on children. Upto 50% of children at certain American and European schools identify as transgender. As if kids can grasp complex issues like this let alone even know who they truly are. It's a fad sure and most of them will grow out of it but that doesn't mean it can't be harmful or confusing to blindly reaffirm everyone Hopefully we can meet respectfully in the center. We need less extremes of disrespect, hate and transgender isn't real non-sense as well as the other extreme. Peace and love as we are all in this together
"they is" isn't grammatically correct anyways so you were wrong right off the bat
I heard someone call them out as diglett yesterday. I will adopt that callout from now on.
It does sound weird frankly. Which is why I just call Venture "Venture" if possible.
I‘m from Germany and me and my friends always just call them „Buddler“ (kinda translates to „digger“ or „burrower“)
Just say Gräberin oder Maulwurfmensch Im german aswell :)
Underminer
Venture, like the rest of tthe cast isnt real. If i called Doomfist a monkey he will have the same reaction as if i called venture they. If anyone gets mad/insults you for not using their preferred pronouns just mute them. If you're only doing this to show support to the LGBTQ community. Congrats you've achieved nothing. You've sat behind your computer screen and gendered a fiction character correctly, Instead of actually going outside and showing support. Which is now more important then ever if you've paid attention to any politics lately.
You act like it's a chore to use passive pronouns. Takes literally the same effort
small things matter too. someone who doesn't personally know you may think that if you misgender a fictional character, you would probably misgender a real person as well. it doesn't matter if you wouldn't actually do that, it's still the message you're sending.
80% they. 20% she / her. Just a force of habit as I find that visually / audibly they present as female. It's natural to slip sometimes
Honestly? I just use she/her for Venture. Is it correct? Some will say no. I will say I dont care. Ease of communication is more important to me than not offending a fictional character. And if someone gets offended on behalf of a fictional character, well, that's very much a they/them problem.
Good on you for reaching out and learning
Fr, more people need to do that Nobody will get mad at you if you ask politely and genuinely
Venture sounds like an eccentric excited girl, so you know my answer.
My friends and I go with "Venture's there" "Venture Ult'ed" "Venture's under".
They are From a language perspective, treat it like you're talking about an unknown person (The pizza person is coming to deliver the pizza "they are on their way") (You see a figure down the road "Who are they?")
Does me referring to them by a given pronoun give me a competitive advantage in game? No? Does it matter at all then if it’s a fictional character? Not really. I typically say the name of the character rather than their gender since it’s easier to say ‘Widow up top’ then ‘she up top’ cause the second thing doesn’t actually give any info about who’s on top.
Cool beans, has nothing to do with this post tho
The person is asking what other people use when talking about Venture. I said I use the characters name instead of using pronouns since nobody can get mad for using the name of a character and it just makes life so much easier.
Ignore them. Their feelings are obviously hurt by this post
Thanks mate. I just figured maybe they needed more context to fully understand what I was saying.
Can’t reason with mentally ill people
honestly i just forget, sometimes it’s venture, sometimes it’s they and sometimes it he/she
It's a vaguely female looking and sounding bunch of pixels so I say 'she'. If it were a living human that requested to be called 'they' instead, then I would do so.
[удалено]
Love the people who go out of their way to purposely mis gender a character... Do you want us to applaud you? Do you want a pat on the back? Well tough titty cus you're getting neither.
[удалено]
Your comment is ironic, considering how you're the only one getting their knickers twisted lol. Just say they and be done with it. A three year old could do it, I believe in you.
Typical, you attack someone for no reason and when you get called out on your behavior, you cave instantly. I’ll call cartoon characters whatever I damn well please. Cope.
It costs nothing to not be an asshole, you know that? I'm also not the one coping, since I've learned a long time ago that I live in 2024, not 1924 :)
The fact this is a conversation at all to me is funny. Why do people care about this? None of these characters exist. If I called hog her or reinhardt she what does it matter to you? They don't exist. Don't expect everyone to care about playing make believe soapbox superiority complex as much as you do. It's all a nothing burger and it's goofy to me game studios go out of their way to elaborate such useless details about a fictional character. I play a competitive fps shooter based off of what is fun to me, not who identifies as a carrot or whatever other inclusive thing.
It amuses me that the people who say "it doesn't matter" are always the ones so gung-ho about purposefully mis gendering characters. You have to actively *think* about mis gendering Venture, they are about as androgynous as a character could get lmao
I don't have to actively think about it. It's just natural to hear a female voice, see female body structure, see female facial structure, and then proceed to refer to them as such as the English language was made and taught to do. I hear a female voice pop out of the ground and my reflex most of the time is just to say Venture is by 'x', but when someone mentions venture I by reflex usually end up saying "she is over there" or something to that effect. There's just a large part of the population who does not interact with non-binary individuals in their day to day life or have to think about these things especially when it comes to a non-existent character in a competitive FPS game. If you want to refer to them as they/them go for it I'm not going to hear that and call you out and be like "uh, ahckshually it's she" because that's just fucking weird. I don't care, and not once in any game have I ever thought about something like this before it became a big stink with this character. It's so god damn weird to me.
Words to live by- you should recite your mantra in the mirror before logging onto Reddit to save yourself the embarrassment of acting like a self-righteous douchebag. Correct- you’re *not* coping, you *need* to cope. That’s the fucking point, Einstein.
Why would I need to cope? I'm actively reaping the benefits of not being a cunt to everyone who isn't me. You may trade personal insults with me all day long for all I care, I will die knowing that my life isn't so shallow that a fictional character being referred to as they/them gets me all hot and bothered :)
No you’ll just die knowing someone referring to a fictional character as “she” gets you so hot and bothered, in case you haven’t noticed that’s what this whole conversation is about; *That’s* the hill you’re so determined to die on. Oh and by the way, you *were* a fucking cunt which is what started this whole mess. Why don’t you go reread your comment and reflect on that instead of being a sanctimonious jackass. Go take some responsibility for yourself. You’re not some noble soul here, you’re a self-righteous prick.
Imagine purposefully making shit up to be transphobic since Venture's assigned gender isn't even known.
Whatever comes out my mouth at the time because it’s a game and I couldn’t care less about politics in a game 🙄
Using grammar correctly is not politics
gender identity isn't politics...
Its a still a fictional character, myself or anyone else shouldnt get harassed because they misidentified a fictional character so instead of bringing gender identity into the game, let me play it without the fear of being mass reported just because I or anyone else here called venture he/she.
>let me play it without the fear of being mass reported I really don't think you should be victimizing yourself when you choose to use the wrong grammar. It's just the tradeoff of your choice
So instead of learning from the experience you double down and invite more arguments? sound logic... And don't give me that "It's not easy" bs, I made that mistake *once* when I didn't know their gender, and when informed of my mistake, simply apologised and corrected it, no hassle. If I can do it, so can everyone else.
I dont like using too much of my brain (I'm lazy) if I say in chat "that was awesome dude" and they responded "Can you use my pronouns attack helicopter/ f1 car? That really aggravated me being called dude." I'm not taking the time to apologise to some one I have a near negligible chance of ever meeting again, Yes great one person got angry but who truly cares? Bite me. One small bout of anger they'll overcome and get on with their attack helicopter life and me? I wont have to think about that f1 car again. but because "i dont care" Im in the wrong so go on your holy knight crusade about how I must change the errors of my way.
Pronouns are gay
So true, but how do make good sentences if don't use (I am mocking you, to be clear.)
ThIs iS GaE
are not necessary for sentences. Yes, making sentences without, seem very stupid. But is not hard to do so.
This is not the gotcha you might think it is. Without the context of the conversation this is literal word salad.
Hey I coulda make the mocking part too but thought it bigger of me not to, im just having fun , can I not?
You can.
Coolio
We're all gay here, Alice.
Thats gay
Thought you as a girl would care more about that?
are you trying to use gay as an insult? cute
No? Are you being a homophobe and assuming all uses of the word gay is an insult? That's not very PC of u
wow its so funny when you play dumb, absolutely hilarious
Did you run out of combacks Mr.PC? Or should i call you Mx.PC? Or maybe you self identify as an Apache attack helicopter? Apache attack helicopter.PC its really homophobic of you to associate the word gay as a derogatory term. Please refrain from doing so in the future to increase your PCness.
it seems you've run out of comebacks since you use ones from 2012
Oh I'm sorry does my witty remarks at poking fun of the absurdity of modern PC culture offended you? Oh do accept my apology of not calling you a they them because it might shatter your fragile ego when you hear terms other than those.
it wasn't even witty back then, i promise you.. get new material bozo. also im just laughing at you trying so hard to "offend' me but you just make yourself look like an absolute loser.
Ah yes name calling and shouting YOUR NOT FUNNY instead of coming up with original insults. The signs of a man on his last stand with an empty head and no intelligence in his head noggin. Indeed i am the loser and you the winner.
your insults are the same "attack apache helicopter" jokes that are at least 12 years old, how is that original? also its kinda funny how you keep assuming im either a man or non binary myself, but im not surprised since clearly no woman ever talks to you.
My friends and I have just started calling her rocky or trench coat because we can’t remember venture lol
I say «she/her», because it's not a real person, it's just a 3D model.
this excuse is dumb, you wouldn't call widow a he or mauga a she right?
I see an appropriate appearance on these characters. Why the fuck would I need to identify them that way?
but it doesn't matter its just a 3d model who cares, right?
Right, you can call it a Zerg, I'll allow it.
oh thank god you allow it
The question for you, why is it necessary to refer to Venture as “they”, while “they” are defined as a group number?
now you're just acting stupid. singular they has been used since the 14th century. if i told you, "i wanna introduce you to my friend sam" you don't know what gender sam is, because its a unisex name. so you would say "can't wait to meet them" it's not that hard to understand.
Let's say. So in theory I can't use “them” when Sam and I have already met, because I already know the person's appearance. So “they” is a temporary substitute that doesn’t make much sense.
so if they tell you they prefer to use they, you're just gonna yell at them about politics or some bs and go out of your way to be a dick?
Venture has female characteristics. Mauga does not.
what female characteristics exactly?
Voice, body structure, facial structure, etc. Not traditionally feminine but easily identifiable to anyone with eyes. If you did not tell anyone about their made up lore of what a 3d character that does not exist identifies as they would be acknowledged as female.
considering the amount of times they've been misgender as male too, your argument is moot.
No, it is not. People are mistaken for the opposite sex often in real life. Venture is not traditionally feminine but it is quite obvious that their sex is female. They wear a baggy coat but their leg/hip shape is obviously female, and so is their facial structure and voice. They are more androgenous and I expect that design detail was purposeful to support their they/them preference. I just think this whole topic is completely unhinged and not based in reality. It's legitimately one of the dumbest things I've seen in a long time.
i think studying a character's hip shape to try to determine their sex is one of the dumbest things i've seen, but you do you.
I'm not studying anything, I am using my eyes to look at them. You asked what characteristics and I told you. The human brain has evolved to recognize male and female characteristics. If this concept is lost on you, then maybe seek further education.
maybe you need to get a job instead of being so focused and obsessed on this. you claim you don't care but you clearly do.
Voice.
that's absolutely stupid, really shows you got nothing 😂 you do realise there are women with deep voices and men with high pitched ones? that's not a good way to try to identify
And yet the voice actor is a biological female...
cool, timmy turner, ash from pokemon, bobby hill, bart simpson and so many more are voiced by women, you better start referring to them as she now!
So now you endorse misgendering?
yep, you're an actual troll. not spending more time humoring you.
I just call em denture or "the mole"
Referring to someone as 'they' feels odd to me, since they and them are both plural.
The singular ‘they’ is not new to the english language and has been grammatically correct for a LONG time. You and the people around you have almost certainly used it casually in conversation before and have just not noticed.
Yes we probably have, but it feels odd referring to someone this way. We need a neutral pronoun that isn't at all plural.
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Well I refer to them as Earthrat because I do not like them, but "they are" is grammatically correct
digger
I saw the meme about calling them denture so now I call them Denture
im non binary and i prefer "they are". Its the most logical, i dont see a reason why you would use "they is". Maybe there are non binary folks out there that prefer "they is" but i doubt it.