If you think of PDA as the community is redefining it, as a “persistent drive for autonomy,“ then it makes perfect sense, because how can you have autonomy when another person is constantly interrupting/intruding on/insinuating themself into your autonomy. It doesn’t matter if they are trying to do nice things for you or help you—or on the other end of the “spectrum,” which is where I’m stuck, the partner micromanages you and has uncontrolled perfectionism and keeps you perpetually trapped in cycle of being blamed and shamed (I could go off on a tangent on this one, and if anyone wants to DM me to dig into all of that, feel free)—that constant presence is too much for PDAers.
We have a much stronger need for personal autonomy than the average person, even compared to most autistic people, most of whom experience some degree of “demand avoidance.”When we learn about who we really are (and I’m one of the people who just had to pursue diagnosis to really feel that, finally, after almost 50 years, I’ve solved the decades long puzzle vis-à-vis who I really am; and it’s so important for people to be able to get to the bottom of that), we can make the best decisions for our health and wellbeing. I strongly feel it is much more important for ND people who have lived in a NT-dominated world, coupled with capitalist oppression of all people who are judged as being “low value” or “not productive enough,” to understand who we are. Because then we can put all the pieces together, see the whole picture, and make the right decisions for ourselves going forward.
Because we need a lot of autonomy, we can only do relationships if the other person really understands what PDA means (and in my case and many other PDAers, autism and ADHD) before they can even consider whether or not they could be a good partner to us. It has nothing to do with how much money that person may have, how many nice things they can do for us every day, or how compassionate and empathetic they are in a general way. What really matters is if they can understand that we need the autonomy and space to quell anxiety in our bodies and to try to keep our nervous systems within the “window of tolerance” range, just to be able to function fine well/OK or even thrive.
The key is, nothing another person in our life does should be impacting us in such a way that we feel we don’t have a choice. And I’m going to post something in a moment that just happened in my life that was extremely upsetting to me, as I knew it would be well in advance of being forced to be an accomplice in it, which involved my AuDHD PDA-profile four-year-old.
The main thing is this: If you feel you can’t breathe, you need to explain to your partner how it is for you. If they don’t know about PDA yet, explain it. If they accept it and understand that you need a lot of space to self-soothe (and stim if you’re autistic) and just keep yourself in a comfortable state, your partner will want to give you THAT important gift if he truly cares for you. You might think that it’s too risky to talk about those things with your partner, but the truth is, if you don’t, you’ll deal with the extra anxiety of feeling that you were forced into accepting a situation that’s uncomfortable for you.
If we look at it from the medical model’s POV, using the term “pathological demand avoidance,“ then we can at least take the “demand” part and ditch the “pathological” part, and recognize that every human being has a ridiculous amount of demands put on them every single day. And they’re not just external, coming from other people, but also internal. I think I’ve done a pretty good job of eliminating a lot of the external demands placed upon me in my life—other than the partner who essentially subjects me to what a friend of mine pointed out to me—“reactive abuse”—I find the internal demands, many of which were in internalized over the decades after they were first imposed on me many times, often violently, to be the hardest ones to cope with.
I’m not gonna get into a bunch of examples right now, but if that resonates with you, it’s worth exploring more and deep-diving into each of those individual internal demands over time, to try to trace the origin of each and hopefully let them go.
I am only just starting to discover the PDA subset of autism and I'm still feeling like a usurper co-opting the term, so that's my bias, but my relationship structure is solo poly. It is a type of polyamory where my first priority is myself and my independence. I don't want to live with a partner or entangle my finances with them or get married. I just want to enjoy my time with them. I have two partners, both of whom are also neurodivergent, and I have set date nights with them. If we don't text outside of those set date nights, I am absolutely fine because too much texting makes me feel indescribably overwhelmed. Other so-po people are more romantic than I am and do require more than I do, but this structure helps me communicate my relationship boundaries without the assumption of a relationship escalator.
Is part of him asking bout what you want to do the feeling of loss of control? Like he’s deciding you should be doing something? I’m quite bossy and tend to be the “let’s do something” one, but when he gets that way (Friday night he wanted to go party) it got really hard for me to pick which thing we wanted to do. He had to settle down and decide he was okay not going anywhere before I was able to figure out I did want to go out.
I feel so much the same way about wanting him to at least be willing to be the final say, esp when it’s something important. And when it comes to going somewhere, I kinda need him to say he wants to go or I end up feeling bad if we go and it sucks
Have you tried talking to him and trying to explain how you feel, in a kind and tactful way? If you don't communicate your needs feelings and boundaries then it's not his fault for not realising. Maybe just delicately ask him to not do stuff or buy stuff for you as feeling independent is very important to you.
If you've asked him to stop, and he hasn't stopped, it could be his fault. Or if you haven't managed to say it properly, why not write it, where you can redraft it again and again until it's perfect, then email or text or post it to him. If you feel suffocated then I think getting him to understand where you're coming from and how you feel may be the way to go.
Also I don't think simply asking him to never help or do things for me is the answer. I crave independence, but at the end of the day, we're all human and it's normal to rely on each other. I just can't seem to find a balance for some reason.
I (AudHD) understand I crave more space and quiet than my a ADHD bf Having misaligned space and closeness needs or fearing enmeshment is so normally for me at least
I'm awful with tasks, but I'm usually super straight-forward socially, so I found a good partner. I maintain autonomy in interpersonal settings by communicating and finding compatible people. I have frustrated my partner with my stubbornness before, but the PDA isn't a big issue between us. Our attachment styles match, and she's a lot more "mellow" than me.
YES IT IS. And I'm still figuring out how to deal with this. I have the most patient, kind, understanding and thoughtful partner, but I still can't fully be at ease within the relationship. I still have my own space (although it's with housemates where I feel other kinds of demands) even though his apartment is big enough for the two of us. He wants me to move in with him, which I do want, but the relief I feel when I'm alone has been making me hesitant.
I understand the feeling of being suffocated and acting out after spending some time together, although the reasons may be different. I used to have partners that lived in another city, so I'd know I'd have some days by myself and traveling some time to the other city helped with the transition from being together to being alone and vice versa. I felt the frustration and tension build up as well when I spent too many days/week together where I felt an almost instant relief when I stepped out the door to go home. That made me realize that I really need days to recover from being together.
It's not a strange idea for traditional relationships to be hard for PDA'ers in general (that's why I believe poly or relationship anarchy would be the best fit for us). I struggle with the feeling that my partner is always up to date with my life. I don't want to tell what I did, am doing or going to do, I don't want to show it either. We have to make decisions together. I was raised with traditional men/women roles and think that it is still somewhat expected this way, so I feel the demand of having to clean, cook and watch my hygiene as well. Even having to be loyal is a demand, even though I don't cheat or plan on doing so. That all feels quite taxing on my autonomy.
I probably went a bit off-topic by sharing my experience, but I think that having nice things done for you doesn't have to mean you will end up in old patterns. As straightforward as this may sound, as long as you're aware, you have choices and the chance to make conscious decisions (although I'd understand how this in itself could feel like a demand). Does everything he do for you trigger you, or are there things that don't trigger you (as much) as well? If so, why? Maybe that could help in communicating and/or setting boundaries.
If you think of PDA as the community is redefining it, as a “persistent drive for autonomy,“ then it makes perfect sense, because how can you have autonomy when another person is constantly interrupting/intruding on/insinuating themself into your autonomy. It doesn’t matter if they are trying to do nice things for you or help you—or on the other end of the “spectrum,” which is where I’m stuck, the partner micromanages you and has uncontrolled perfectionism and keeps you perpetually trapped in cycle of being blamed and shamed (I could go off on a tangent on this one, and if anyone wants to DM me to dig into all of that, feel free)—that constant presence is too much for PDAers. We have a much stronger need for personal autonomy than the average person, even compared to most autistic people, most of whom experience some degree of “demand avoidance.”When we learn about who we really are (and I’m one of the people who just had to pursue diagnosis to really feel that, finally, after almost 50 years, I’ve solved the decades long puzzle vis-à-vis who I really am; and it’s so important for people to be able to get to the bottom of that), we can make the best decisions for our health and wellbeing. I strongly feel it is much more important for ND people who have lived in a NT-dominated world, coupled with capitalist oppression of all people who are judged as being “low value” or “not productive enough,” to understand who we are. Because then we can put all the pieces together, see the whole picture, and make the right decisions for ourselves going forward. Because we need a lot of autonomy, we can only do relationships if the other person really understands what PDA means (and in my case and many other PDAers, autism and ADHD) before they can even consider whether or not they could be a good partner to us. It has nothing to do with how much money that person may have, how many nice things they can do for us every day, or how compassionate and empathetic they are in a general way. What really matters is if they can understand that we need the autonomy and space to quell anxiety in our bodies and to try to keep our nervous systems within the “window of tolerance” range, just to be able to function fine well/OK or even thrive. The key is, nothing another person in our life does should be impacting us in such a way that we feel we don’t have a choice. And I’m going to post something in a moment that just happened in my life that was extremely upsetting to me, as I knew it would be well in advance of being forced to be an accomplice in it, which involved my AuDHD PDA-profile four-year-old. The main thing is this: If you feel you can’t breathe, you need to explain to your partner how it is for you. If they don’t know about PDA yet, explain it. If they accept it and understand that you need a lot of space to self-soothe (and stim if you’re autistic) and just keep yourself in a comfortable state, your partner will want to give you THAT important gift if he truly cares for you. You might think that it’s too risky to talk about those things with your partner, but the truth is, if you don’t, you’ll deal with the extra anxiety of feeling that you were forced into accepting a situation that’s uncomfortable for you. If we look at it from the medical model’s POV, using the term “pathological demand avoidance,“ then we can at least take the “demand” part and ditch the “pathological” part, and recognize that every human being has a ridiculous amount of demands put on them every single day. And they’re not just external, coming from other people, but also internal. I think I’ve done a pretty good job of eliminating a lot of the external demands placed upon me in my life—other than the partner who essentially subjects me to what a friend of mine pointed out to me—“reactive abuse”—I find the internal demands, many of which were in internalized over the decades after they were first imposed on me many times, often violently, to be the hardest ones to cope with. I’m not gonna get into a bunch of examples right now, but if that resonates with you, it’s worth exploring more and deep-diving into each of those individual internal demands over time, to try to trace the origin of each and hopefully let them go.
Thank you so much for this comment, my partner actually happens to be autistic as well, so I think he'll be really understanding of my PDA traits.
Relationships get me from feeling fine to severe suicial thoughts in a few weeks.
I feel that. I feel like things can be perfectly fine from an NT perspective and I still get into that headspace.
I am only just starting to discover the PDA subset of autism and I'm still feeling like a usurper co-opting the term, so that's my bias, but my relationship structure is solo poly. It is a type of polyamory where my first priority is myself and my independence. I don't want to live with a partner or entangle my finances with them or get married. I just want to enjoy my time with them. I have two partners, both of whom are also neurodivergent, and I have set date nights with them. If we don't text outside of those set date nights, I am absolutely fine because too much texting makes me feel indescribably overwhelmed. Other so-po people are more romantic than I am and do require more than I do, but this structure helps me communicate my relationship boundaries without the assumption of a relationship escalator.
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The guilt over these feelings is so real 😭 I really am thankful in hindsight, but in the moment I get so dysregulated
Is part of him asking bout what you want to do the feeling of loss of control? Like he’s deciding you should be doing something? I’m quite bossy and tend to be the “let’s do something” one, but when he gets that way (Friday night he wanted to go party) it got really hard for me to pick which thing we wanted to do. He had to settle down and decide he was okay not going anywhere before I was able to figure out I did want to go out.
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I feel so much the same way about wanting him to at least be willing to be the final say, esp when it’s something important. And when it comes to going somewhere, I kinda need him to say he wants to go or I end up feeling bad if we go and it sucks
Have you tried talking to him and trying to explain how you feel, in a kind and tactful way? If you don't communicate your needs feelings and boundaries then it's not his fault for not realising. Maybe just delicately ask him to not do stuff or buy stuff for you as feeling independent is very important to you.
I have attempted communicating this to him many times and it never comes out right, nor am I trying to imply any of this is his fault.
If you've asked him to stop, and he hasn't stopped, it could be his fault. Or if you haven't managed to say it properly, why not write it, where you can redraft it again and again until it's perfect, then email or text or post it to him. If you feel suffocated then I think getting him to understand where you're coming from and how you feel may be the way to go.
This post was me venting about a struggle I'm having and trying to find a space where people might relate.. :/ sorry for being unclear about that.
Ok. I interpreted it as you asking for help and suggestions on how to improve the situation, perhaps I misinterpreted.
Also I don't think simply asking him to never help or do things for me is the answer. I crave independence, but at the end of the day, we're all human and it's normal to rely on each other. I just can't seem to find a balance for some reason.
I (AudHD) understand I crave more space and quiet than my a ADHD bf Having misaligned space and closeness needs or fearing enmeshment is so normally for me at least
I'm awful with tasks, but I'm usually super straight-forward socially, so I found a good partner. I maintain autonomy in interpersonal settings by communicating and finding compatible people. I have frustrated my partner with my stubbornness before, but the PDA isn't a big issue between us. Our attachment styles match, and she's a lot more "mellow" than me.
YES IT IS. And I'm still figuring out how to deal with this. I have the most patient, kind, understanding and thoughtful partner, but I still can't fully be at ease within the relationship. I still have my own space (although it's with housemates where I feel other kinds of demands) even though his apartment is big enough for the two of us. He wants me to move in with him, which I do want, but the relief I feel when I'm alone has been making me hesitant. I understand the feeling of being suffocated and acting out after spending some time together, although the reasons may be different. I used to have partners that lived in another city, so I'd know I'd have some days by myself and traveling some time to the other city helped with the transition from being together to being alone and vice versa. I felt the frustration and tension build up as well when I spent too many days/week together where I felt an almost instant relief when I stepped out the door to go home. That made me realize that I really need days to recover from being together. It's not a strange idea for traditional relationships to be hard for PDA'ers in general (that's why I believe poly or relationship anarchy would be the best fit for us). I struggle with the feeling that my partner is always up to date with my life. I don't want to tell what I did, am doing or going to do, I don't want to show it either. We have to make decisions together. I was raised with traditional men/women roles and think that it is still somewhat expected this way, so I feel the demand of having to clean, cook and watch my hygiene as well. Even having to be loyal is a demand, even though I don't cheat or plan on doing so. That all feels quite taxing on my autonomy. I probably went a bit off-topic by sharing my experience, but I think that having nice things done for you doesn't have to mean you will end up in old patterns. As straightforward as this may sound, as long as you're aware, you have choices and the chance to make conscious decisions (although I'd understand how this in itself could feel like a demand). Does everything he do for you trigger you, or are there things that don't trigger you (as much) as well? If so, why? Maybe that could help in communicating and/or setting boundaries.