I disagree, respectfully. Run test as high as you can without needing an AI, then crank the primo. Most people starting out can see great gains off way less than 500mg as their test base.
Not really. You advised him to bump his test. Beyond 200mg of test with nothing to control estradiol, most would see issues arise, especially if body fat is out of hand.
Yes, 400 Test and see how he reacts. We Can’t Tell if he needs an ai, he should obv have that on hand.
If you add Primo and Crash your e2 he doesnt Even know whats happing because 2 compounds -> more trouble. Defently not Safe for a First cycle.
He obv will get bloods Done around 6 weeks or so to see how he handles the Test; at least if he isnt dumb and his researched on what to do…
Fully agreed. Crashing E2 on primo is a very intermediate situation and takes weeks of sustained depression to get through, during which the mind can make terrible decisions
I’m going to choose to not tell beginners to blast copious amounts of gear in their first cycle. I mean seriously, how stupid are you? Are you stupid or just a piece of shit?
If you think 500mg of test a week is safer than 200mg test and 300 primo, or even 600mg primo weekly for that matter, then you sir, obviously don't just have a shit physique but are also retarded.
You literally said “run test as high as you can without an ai” then you provided to say “then crank the primo”. What about those two quotes makes you believe that’s good advice for someone’s first cycle? Fucking idiot
Have you used primo before? If your not fat or dont aromatise a fuck load I would start with a 2:1 ratio then get bloods done at week 5-6 and adjust based off that. A 1:1 ratio would absolutely decimate some peoples E2 which obviously you want to avoid, If you get early high E2 symptoms it’s easy to adjust
I agree that primo is very dependant on the individual. I’m on primo and running double the test ratio as it’s smashing my e2 down down down. Even on 400 primo/800mg test im not feeling too much and am super dry and grainy.
My mate is running it 1:1 and is bloated with high e2 still.
Your stupid most ppl don’t just run test on their first cycle so instead of being like they should only run test how about you give some real advice cuz most ppl start out with multiple compounds even though they shouldn’t
That’s the worst logic I’ve heard in a while. wtf are you on about? With that logic I should give children advice on what alcoholic beverage to buy because even though they shouldn’t be drinking they’re going to anyway. Absolute moron.
I would personally just go for test for a first cycle, it takes some “experience” to learn about dosing and sides and the “safest” compound I think you can gain experience with is test, then you might wanna move to stacking it with other compounds since you’ll have better understanding of the ratios by then.
Trust me you can see a lot of gains on just test alone at first, try to squeeze out every possible amount of gains from test at first. See how much you can handle and for how long.
If you really want to stack it now with something, you can always do some mild orals, tbol or anavar for some weeks, it’ll give you that umph in the gym that you might not notice with test at first.
I would start by graduating up the test. 500 is far too much in my opinion at this point in your gear use. 500 is too much for me period. What ever you graduate up to, I would then graduate up with the primo. I would suggest not going by ratios. Rations are general and you have your own specific genetics. Know one else know how you will react to various substances I am running my primo at 280. There have been times in the past where i have run test a little higher and times when I have run Primo a lot higher. But, the key is to start low and work your way up. You would want to stop working the dose up once you hit your target dose or hit side effects that you prefer not to have.
Hi. Just wanted to let you know that your comment is rude and adds no value. Sorry your feelings got hurt. But that doesn't mean that mine got hurt. One of us is being polite and helpful and logical and the other one is you who is being emotional. I wish you the best on your journey and hope that you find peace at some point.
Wow. I feel really bad for you. You clearly have anger issues. You also seem to believe that everything that you believe is 100% true for everyone AND that everyone MUST take your advice. Please see a therapist with knowledge of narcissism.
Same boat as you and when I did my research it seems doing 500mg of test by itself first is the recommendation to learn how you react to just that much testosterone. No need to over complicate things right off the bat. This is what I’ll be doing in a couple weeks
Have you tried test only ? I’d start there and then adjust.
I definitely understand that test only isn’t ideal for everyone, it’s too androgenic for me.
Would be an interesting combo, but not at those doses. You don’t know how primo is going to affect your estrogen. I would be in absolute hell on that combo. Crashed estrogen can feel like you’re on the verge of a panic attack even if you don’t have anxiety.
I get significant AI effect on even just 100mg primo a week and a bit of fullness as well. Routinely suggest just do 500 test, but adding 100mg primo a week could be interesting. At worst, you can’t tell the difference. At best, you get a little more fullness and negate the need for AI.
Just spit ballin.
Regardless of the Primo, you need to know your E2 conversion levels so that is dialed in before you ramp to 400mg of T. I turned into a ball of watery, pissy, PMS crying mess doing that.
Definitely not.
1) first cycle, only test. Why? How will you know what’s causing what side. You will never know. BP too high? Is is the test or primo? Lipids out of control? Test or primo? No or too high libido? (Remember science class and having multiple Independent Variables at once?)
2) start at a TRT dose and see how your body reacts, then titrate up.
3) after 5-6 weeks on TRT dose, get second round of blood work done. 2nd round? Yes, because you did them before you started to get a baseline, correct?
4) everything solid after 5-6 weeks, blast away if you must and then do another round of blood work after 6 weeks.
5) you have enough syringes and needles on hand for 3 injections per week? You are breaking down the dose into smaller ones, right?
Also, do you have Nolva and an AI on hand for estrogen related issues? What about for prolactin sides? P5P at home?
Lastly, you have a solid understanding of PCT and everything on hand and ready to go in case you have to stop or for when you are done.
Very likely primo that high compared to that level of test will tank your estrogen after 6 weeks or so.
900mg total for a 1st cycle? Way too high IMO.
Honestly I'd go 200mg test, 200mg primo, 200mg npp OR 250mg test 250mg masteron for a first cycle. Start low or you have nowhere to go in the future. It is going to take 7-10 years and many, many cycles to build a nice physique. If you go high right out of the gate at 900mg youll be using grams just to look average.
Food will be the bottleneck, not gear. Low and slow and always push food before gear.
Guys been on test already and knows how his body responds, this is his "second" cycle after his trt dose.....time to build some muscle...test base with anabolics that won't leave his e2 in the gutter or a bloated mess.
Turn that primo down to about 200 to start. Some people get shut down hard from it. See how you react to it, then decide if you should up it. It's actually about 1:1, if you're not affected by it
Well no shit you ran it at 600/200!
But tbh everyone reacts differently, 2:1 didn’t work for me I had to do something like 2.5:1. I have friends who will run it at 1:1 and no single issue and others can even go a bit higher with DHTs with no issues.
It’s always trial and error haha that’s what makes it always interesting.
No. What don’t you fuckers understand about test only for your first cycle???? 300-500mg of test for 12-16 weeks if your bloodwork comes back good at 16 weeks and you feel good then you can run it and additional 4 weeks if you really want. I usually just do 16 weeks and call it a day.
You should first increase Test and See how you respond before adding a second compound on your first cycle
I disagree, respectfully. Run test as high as you can without needing an AI, then crank the primo. Most people starting out can see great gains off way less than 500mg as their test base.
Ermm Thats what I said. Might badly phrased by me but Thats exactly what I was saying.
Not really. You advised him to bump his test. Beyond 200mg of test with nothing to control estradiol, most would see issues arise, especially if body fat is out of hand.
Yes, 400 Test and see how he reacts. We Can’t Tell if he needs an ai, he should obv have that on hand. If you add Primo and Crash your e2 he doesnt Even know whats happing because 2 compounds -> more trouble. Defently not Safe for a First cycle. He obv will get bloods Done around 6 weeks or so to see how he handles the Test; at least if he isnt dumb and his researched on what to do…
Fully agreed. Crashing E2 on primo is a very intermediate situation and takes weeks of sustained depression to get through, during which the mind can make terrible decisions
Crashed e2 Sounds worse then top high e2…
Don’t give advice if you’re stupid
National level competitor that makes a living teaching people how to use gear and build physiques. But hey, do as you please.
I’m going to choose to not tell beginners to blast copious amounts of gear in their first cycle. I mean seriously, how stupid are you? Are you stupid or just a piece of shit?
If you think 500mg of test a week is safer than 200mg test and 300 primo, or even 600mg primo weekly for that matter, then you sir, obviously don't just have a shit physique but are also retarded.
You literally said “run test as high as you can without an ai” then you provided to say “then crank the primo”. What about those two quotes makes you believe that’s good advice for someone’s first cycle? Fucking idiot
Have you used primo before? If your not fat or dont aromatise a fuck load I would start with a 2:1 ratio then get bloods done at week 5-6 and adjust based off that. A 1:1 ratio would absolutely decimate some peoples E2 which obviously you want to avoid, If you get early high E2 symptoms it’s easy to adjust
I agree that primo is very dependant on the individual. I’m on primo and running double the test ratio as it’s smashing my e2 down down down. Even on 400 primo/800mg test im not feeling too much and am super dry and grainy. My mate is running it 1:1 and is bloated with high e2 still.
First cycle? Id prefer something like 300 test, 200 primo-start low and titrate up
Why are we suggesting people use multiple compounds on their first cycle? That’s so stupid. Test only for first cycle.
Your stupid most ppl don’t just run test on their first cycle so instead of being like they should only run test how about you give some real advice cuz most ppl start out with multiple compounds even though they shouldn’t
That’s the worst logic I’ve heard in a while. wtf are you on about? With that logic I should give children advice on what alcoholic beverage to buy because even though they shouldn’t be drinking they’re going to anyway. Absolute moron.
How do you even know they are a kid
What? Are you stupid or something? Holy shit.
I’m starting to think your the dumbass here
*you’re
Just stop. You’re making a fool of yourself.
This is what I’d prefer
That doesn’t make it good advice.
The first question should be why primo?
You should run 500mg test and dose ai appropriately, you don’t even know how you’ll aromatize
Lmao no Start at 250mg test imo and see how you respond to the basics
Do just test. If all goes well, next blast do 400mg Test 200mg Primo.
Safest bet.
I would personally just go for test for a first cycle, it takes some “experience” to learn about dosing and sides and the “safest” compound I think you can gain experience with is test, then you might wanna move to stacking it with other compounds since you’ll have better understanding of the ratios by then. Trust me you can see a lot of gains on just test alone at first, try to squeeze out every possible amount of gains from test at first. See how much you can handle and for how long. If you really want to stack it now with something, you can always do some mild orals, tbol or anavar for some weeks, it’ll give you that umph in the gym that you might not notice with test at first.
I would end up in low e2 he'll first week with those numbers...
I would start by graduating up the test. 500 is far too much in my opinion at this point in your gear use. 500 is too much for me period. What ever you graduate up to, I would then graduate up with the primo. I would suggest not going by ratios. Rations are general and you have your own specific genetics. Know one else know how you will react to various substances I am running my primo at 280. There have been times in the past where i have run test a little higher and times when I have run Primo a lot higher. But, the key is to start low and work your way up. You would want to stop working the dose up once you hit your target dose or hit side effects that you prefer not to have.
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just like god is everywhere. no evidence to back it up
Hey, just wanted to let you know that your comment is rude and doesn't add any value.
It does add value. I’m letting OP know that your advice is objectively shit. Sucks that your feelings got hurt but it is what it is.
Hi. Just wanted to let you know that your comment is rude and adds no value. Sorry your feelings got hurt. But that doesn't mean that mine got hurt. One of us is being polite and helpful and logical and the other one is you who is being emotional. I wish you the best on your journey and hope that you find peace at some point.
You’re not being helpful you’re giving someone horrible advice and I’m calling you out for it. Shut your mouth and quit giving people shit advice.
Wow. I feel really bad for you. You clearly have anger issues. You also seem to believe that everything that you believe is 100% true for everyone AND that everyone MUST take your advice. Please see a therapist with knowledge of narcissism.
Imagine trying to take the high road here. You’re a clown bud.
I completely agree 2:1 is a must to start off with
Same boat as you and when I did my research it seems doing 500mg of test by itself first is the recommendation to learn how you react to just that much testosterone. No need to over complicate things right off the bat. This is what I’ll be doing in a couple weeks
Have you tried test only ? I’d start there and then adjust. I definitely understand that test only isn’t ideal for everyone, it’s too androgenic for me.
Would be an interesting combo, but not at those doses. You don’t know how primo is going to affect your estrogen. I would be in absolute hell on that combo. Crashed estrogen can feel like you’re on the verge of a panic attack even if you don’t have anxiety. I get significant AI effect on even just 100mg primo a week and a bit of fullness as well. Routinely suggest just do 500 test, but adding 100mg primo a week could be interesting. At worst, you can’t tell the difference. At best, you get a little more fullness and negate the need for AI. Just spit ballin.
Regardless of the Primo, you need to know your E2 conversion levels so that is dialed in before you ramp to 400mg of T. I turned into a ball of watery, pissy, PMS crying mess doing that.
What do your labs look like at 200mg?
Definitely not. 1) first cycle, only test. Why? How will you know what’s causing what side. You will never know. BP too high? Is is the test or primo? Lipids out of control? Test or primo? No or too high libido? (Remember science class and having multiple Independent Variables at once?) 2) start at a TRT dose and see how your body reacts, then titrate up. 3) after 5-6 weeks on TRT dose, get second round of blood work done. 2nd round? Yes, because you did them before you started to get a baseline, correct? 4) everything solid after 5-6 weeks, blast away if you must and then do another round of blood work after 6 weeks. 5) you have enough syringes and needles on hand for 3 injections per week? You are breaking down the dose into smaller ones, right? Also, do you have Nolva and an AI on hand for estrogen related issues? What about for prolactin sides? P5P at home? Lastly, you have a solid understanding of PCT and everything on hand and ready to go in case you have to stop or for when you are done.
Very likely primo that high compared to that level of test will tank your estrogen after 6 weeks or so. 900mg total for a 1st cycle? Way too high IMO. Honestly I'd go 200mg test, 200mg primo, 200mg npp OR 250mg test 250mg masteron for a first cycle. Start low or you have nowhere to go in the future. It is going to take 7-10 years and many, many cycles to build a nice physique. If you go high right out of the gate at 900mg youll be using grams just to look average. Food will be the bottleneck, not gear. Low and slow and always push food before gear.
Why are you suggesting someone take multiple different compounds for their first cycle? That’s not good advice.
Guys been on test already and knows how his body responds, this is his "second" cycle after his trt dose.....time to build some muscle...test base with anabolics that won't leave his e2 in the gutter or a bloated mess.
Being on 200mg is not a first cycle for 99 percent of people.
That's because they follow the horrible recommendation of 500mg touted here.
Turn that primo down to about 200 to start. Some people get shut down hard from it. See how you react to it, then decide if you should up it. It's actually about 1:1, if you're not affected by it
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Well no shit you ran it at 600/200! But tbh everyone reacts differently, 2:1 didn’t work for me I had to do something like 2.5:1. I have friends who will run it at 1:1 and no single issue and others can even go a bit higher with DHTs with no issues. It’s always trial and error haha that’s what makes it always interesting.
No. What don’t you fuckers understand about test only for your first cycle???? 300-500mg of test for 12-16 weeks if your bloodwork comes back good at 16 weeks and you feel good then you can run it and additional 4 weeks if you really want. I usually just do 16 weeks and call it a day.