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I don’t think that an OT is the correct professional for this. I think you need a behavioral therapist. I’d go back to your doctor and get a referral to a developmental pediatrician.
A behavioral therapist added to the team with the OT would be even better actually. Sensory dysregulation can make things incredibly difficult especially if it’s painful (like loud noises). A lot of OTs will also help kids who are sensory avoidant and sensory seeking to find the right balance of input/output which helps to decrease the unsafe and violent behaviors.
OP just know you are not alone and I definitely think a behavioral therapist would be beneficial as an evaluation can tell you which direction you may need to move.
Speaking as an OT, it would be good to back it up with a playbased therapist or behavioural therapist. When kids are in that extreme heightened state of emotion, they can't access their tools to regulate enotion in the moment. Seeing parents struggle, if the OT alone isn't enough, try a different route.
We have a handful of OT clinics that are exactly for this purpose. I’ve bright my ADHD daughter to one, my friend whose son has autism sees one weekly.
Yeah I’m totally not saying OT isn’t the way to go. OT can absolutely address it but you really want to vet the OT. Some OTs are great at ADLs, some are great at behavior, some at feeding… every one is very different. You don’t want to just go with any pediatric OT for something like behavior.
Speaking as a child psychologist who specializes in problem behavior, occupational therapy is NOT an empirically supported treatment for significant problem behavior. Sure, their recs may be helpful for a child who is frustrated due to skill deficits or overwhelmed due to overstimulation, but a problem this severe needs specialized care. This OT’s recs have not been helpful because this problem is way beyond the scope of an OT’s training.
How do you know what our scope is though? Your expertise is in child psychology thus it's your role to know what falls within your scope...not that of other disciplines.
Also what evidence do you have to suggest that OT is not empirically supported in this population?
I'm well aware of several studies that many psych interventions have poor evidence yet it is used because it is the best we have at the moment.
Any OT worth their salt would collaborate in severe behavior kids to ensure that they're receiving the appropriate treatment.
OTs as a matter of fact are also specialized in function (I.e. The daily activities that someone needs or wants to do) thus your speciality in child psychology is equivalent to our specialty in child and adult function.
How does a gastroenterologist know that a neurologist is less knowledgable than them about gastrointestinal conditions? Because a neurologist is not a gastroenterologist. OTs do themselves no favors by claiming to be experts in treating behavior problems. I’ve worked with a lot of great OTs in hospital settings who acknowledge that most OTs have no specialized behavioral training. Here is a policy statement put out by the American Academy of Pediatrics that details empirically supported treatments for clinically significant behavioral problems in children:
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/138/6/e20163023/52605/Addressing-Early-Childhood-Emotional-and?autologincheck=redirected#
^^ OTs are not qualified to implement any of those interventions. As far as I can tell, evidence-based assessments and interventions for diagnosable pediatric behavior problems are not on your licensing exam. I’m not talking about something comprehensive like the Vineland, I mean specialized instruments and interventions that require extensive training and supervision to administer. Things that are norm referenced and have been validated for behavioral symptoms through a randomized controlled trial. Does that mean OTs can never help with behavior? Of course not. I acknowledged that OTs are qualified to use common sense strategies like desensitization and teaching functional skills, which can help reduce minor behavioral issues.
Have you heard of “heavy play”? It’s a type of sensory play where the child needs to lift, push, pull, move heavy things to give a resistance to their muscles kind of. Also, my ADHD little used to get absolutely wild when overtired almost as a way of keeping himself alert and fighting it.
This sounds like my 3 year old (I have my suspicions re: ADHD, but it's too early for diagnoses). She's a bit like a husky puppy - she needs enough physical exercise during the day to tire her out. But if she's too tired it's a bad scene, and that's when epic meltdowns happen (she is the master of fighting the nap).
Sure, but that’s an official diagnosis. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing possible until 6. My kid’s 5 now and has been followed by a pediatrician for anxiety and possible adhd for at least a year now. I know she has it. The pediatrician knows she has it. Her teacher knows she has it. We’re supporting her where she’s at.
Heavy play and balance play are incredibly beneficial for ADHD kids AND adults! Wobble boards, trampolines, heavy blocks, jumping stones, places to do big jumps are all excellent for helping with ADHD symptoms.
My youngest did the same thing between 3 and 5 years old. It reminds me exactly of what you are describing. He would get in a hamster wheel of anger and it escalated to a point of him almost being scary to me. When he would get like that I would hold him tightly and rock back and forth. He would scream at me that he hated me and wished I was never born, trying to wiggle himself out of my grip. I would tell him calmly that it was ok to feel that way and that I will still love him. He is 6 now and it seems to have subsided for the most part. We have not had an episode in several months.
I got him into play therapy and it made a WORLD of difference. He has an IEP in school now (look for early intervention services in your area) to help support him.
He has been diagnosed as having an early childhood developmental disability. Sometimes they grow out of it, sometimes it turns into something else.
Thanks to play therapy and an amazing Kindergarten teacher this year he is able to label his feelings and express them much more eloquently. Some kids are really smart but don't have the words yet to be able to express what's going on, so it comes out in BIG ways. That's what happened with my kiddo.
I cannot recommend play therapy enough! It really has worked so well for my kiddo! Good luck. It is not easy. ❤️
My son is 4 and we are on our second year of this. I have a visceral reaction to my phone ringing while he is at school. I am so thankful that his current school recognizes this behavior as unfortunately typical to a small number of children and are helping him work through it. He has also been on an IEP for almost a full year now. We are working on getting him into play therapy. He has his guidance counselor and the SPED teacher that each work with him during the week. His teacher always reminds me that he really is a sweet kid. He had a major behavior issue 2 months ago where he really hurt his friend in class (she is totally fine and her mom was so nice when we spoke about the incident, really appreciated the compassion). Things have been better since then, but there are also more safety measures in place to make sure he is never too far from an adult. Your story give me hope. Thank you for sharing
I have six kids with an array of developmental disabilities. For one of my children, who I won't identify to protect their privacy, there was a good few years where they were red flagged for conduct disorder, the pediatric version of antisocial personality disorder. It was terrifying. I remember sitting up at night after a particularly rough day sobbing to my husband that I was terrified they were going to become a school shooter or something equally horrific. There were times when I would be laying on my child for 2+ hours just trying to prevent them from harming themselves or others while they raged.
Now, after years of therapy and a lot of trial and error on medications, we have found a sweet spot for my child. It turns out these behaviors that were being attributed to a lack of empathy were in fact deeply rooted insecurities and shame. My child felt such profound dislike of themselves that they would spiral behaviorally. Also, although at the time they had two diagnoses, getting the rest of their disorders diagnosed helped us to pinpoint both treatment and medication.
I think a comprehensive psych eval is a good place to start, with another note - your child is three. Look for a child psychologist that accepts your insurance and specializes in developmental disorders. My child above ended up with multiple diagnoses, but ultimately getting their OCD diagnosed and treated, both with medication and CBT, made the biggest difference.
Hugs, OP.
What are the other five’s developmental disabilities, if you don’t mind me asking? Are they all ranges of the same thing (OCD, etc) or all different?
One of my kids is 4 and we feel like there’s something not quite right but can’t get any support. He isn’t antisocial / disruptive and is instead super sweet and obedient which I feel like makes every other adult more dismissive of concerns. Meanwhile he has crazy meltdowns. So just kinda curious what you’ve had diagnosed in all your kids…something I can look out for maybe
Autism is the common thread. The rest are comorbidities shared by some or all of them. I'm autistic as well, though, so we are not shocked!
I say we have the full spectrum in our home - for some of my kids, most people question if they are actually autistic because they are so good at masking (passing as neurotypical by suppressing visibly autistic traits). Others of my children have high support needs and will need lifelong care.
I think if you have any concerns for your child's development, an evaluation is a good place to start. My most visibly autistic kids were diagnosed first, then I was, then we went ahead and screened my other kids after my diagnosis. For two of my kids the diagnosis came a surprise, I was sure they only had ADHD, but now that I know it's hard to miss.
Some of them are OCD, ADHD, generalized anxiety disorder, social anxiety, global hypotonia, CDKL5 disorder (a genetic condition), global developmental delay, oppositional defiant disorder, myocolonic atonic epilepsy, and intellectual disability. I'm pretty sure I'm missing some. This is spread amongst all six of my kids, no one kid has all of the diagnoses.
Not the commenter above, but ones to look into: sensory processing disorder, oppositional defiance disorder, hyperlexia, adhd, autism.
They’re all some version of neurodivergence. Ours was sensory processing disorder & that caused the massive meltdowns. Good luck, follow your gut. Don’t let anyone tell you there’s nothing wrong because your kid isn’t disruptive. You have to advocate for them, and it’s really hard.
Internet hugs
I feel like he has some type of sensory processing disorder for sure. He is EXTREMELY sensitive to any sound, like he would jerk up if he heard someone on the stairs. And when he was younger he would literally cry if he heard a sound he couldn’t identify, or a loud sound outside (eg construction). Plus he can’t blow his nose or kiss yet…that’s not a published milestone but it seems like some type of yellow flag that 2 yr olds can blow or pick their nose and he can’t seem to figure it out at almost 5…
The thing is, I read there isn’t really a solution or treatment for it, so even if we went to a therapist (which he’s in for anxiety) what could be an outcome?… it’s usually something that’s treated “with” a diagnosis but he doesn’t have markers for autism. Pediatrician and teachers all see him totally fine, just a little clingy.
For us the answer was a pretty intense sensory diet (not a food diet) that was worked out with an OT. I read up a lot on SPD & worked out what areas he needed help in. Then we worked on those areas daily.
I made a deck of cards (3x5 notecards) of exercises in the different categories (proprioception, vestibular, etc…) each category had 3-5 exercise choices & 2x daily I had him pick an exercise from each category.
Ones that I remember (this was long ago) were things like heavy work (carrying a backpack full of books around the house 3x. Doing bear walk around the house 2-3 times. Wheelbarrow walk. Crab walk, etc… these helped his brain regulate, so we did them daily just like you get dressed or brush your teeth.
There’s music therapy for the auditory defensiveness. There’s tactile therapy if clothes/touch are an issue.
Basically we had to deliberately teach his brain how to handle some input through repeated intentional exposure. It’s a long road & tough because you have to go right up to what they can tolerate but not past. There’s a lot of building trust. BUT, I now have what most would consider a totally typical but amazing teen.
He doesn’t remember all the issues other than we used to do a lot of weird games. He’s able to be in noisy spaces, play instruments & sports, made friends & attends a typical school.
Check out: Too Loud, Too Bright, Too Fast, Too Tight: What to Do If You Are Sensory Defensive in an Overstimulating World by shanon heller. It’s a very through starting point for spd.
Thank you for the advice and for sharing your experience. <3
It is terrifying...I didn't want to believe that something was "wrong" at first, but I can't deny that she needs some help which at the moment I do not know how to give.
I have five with varying diagnoses.
I often wonder why there are some of us that don't have any neurotypical kids.
I have one with serious insecurities as well and you're right. It sets off some horrible behavior. Turning 12 has been rough!
My daughter went through an epic tantrum phase at that age that neither of her brothers did. Like “remove all furniture from her room so she doesn’t hurt herself” level. It was a nightmare that lasted more than a year
She eventually grew out of it and is a lovely (most of the time) teenage girl now
My daughter went through exactly what you’re describing at this same age. It SUCKED! Here’s what we did:
The parent that was the major focus of her feral rage left the room, stating clearly that they had to leave to keep their body safe. The other parent then held her tight, wrapped in a blanket if we could, and did very loud Sch sch sch sounds like you do with a baby but as loud as possible, almost rhythmic white noise, while rocking her body rather intensely. Not a rough rocking but really big and kind of fast. As she calmed this would turn into gentle shushing and rocking and maybe even some humming. Once things were under control we would talk with her about how much we loved her but that she cannot hurt people including herself. The other parent would also return to do some heart mending as well.
We stuck with this process every time and over a couple months these episodes became fewer until they eventually ceased. When we could see the feral child rising we would start talking about how she’s allowed to feel upset but we can’t allow her to hurt anyone including herself. Sometimes this would lead to her asking for a deep squeeze and some rocking and sometimes she would go yell in her room. If the latter the rule was that she could come out when she was done yelling. We had to stay by the door and put her back in many times. It also escalated to feral child and rocking sometimes too.
All of this combined really helped her and we are now well past anything even similar to this behavior. We also leaned in to heavy and physical play which helped a lot. We hung a trapeze bar with rings for her in the house and it was like a new chapter opened.
We also consulted her doctor and his recommendation was that we were handling this correctly. That maybe she has ADHD but he felt strongly that diagnosis this early is often inaccurate and leads to more complications like medicating children that don’t actually need it. He said if this was still going on when she was 5 we would look into that. It is thankfully NOT happening anymore. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t have ADHD but that the solution to this particular problem was found outside of a diagnosis.
Good luck. I seriously feel you and if you have any questions or just need to commiserate feel free to DM me.
thank you for not medicating your daughter at such a young age. this subreddit is so med happy that I am concerned that many parents here rush to find a diagnosis and prescription to “fix” whatever the issue is - sure sometimes it may be a diagnosis but why wouldn’t you medicate your toddler as an ABSOLUTE last resort?
I was medicated since I was five and do not have ADHD or autism (was evaluated as an adult and confirmed this despite a pediatric diagnosis), and it caused me so many problems, both psychological and physical. I have arthritis in my twenties because of the med side effects, among so many other issues.
My daughter was similar to this at age 3-5. Especially the maniacal laughter and losing control reminded me of her. Our journey was similar to yours but we also found that, against most current parenting advice, we could “snap her out of it” before she went full feral with a serious consequence to her actions. Something like “I can tell you are having really big feelings. That’s ok but behaving wild and hitting and not listening is not ok. I can help you calm down but only if you’re willing to try. If you keep acting this way I’m going to take away X for the day.” And then we did take away X. Having the big consequence that was carried through immediately when she continued the behavior was enough of a shock and a leash that it would cut her out of the meltdown loop. She would cry and yell about the consequence for a bit but in a controllable way and then when she calmed down we’d talk to her and help her process.
For her I think a lot of the behavior was feeling out of control would push her to become out of control and it was a really awful loop. Having really serious and concrete consequences would feel like a hard line and an end point for her and it would break that cycle.
At 5.5 she’s doing the maniacal laughter meltdowns much less and is getting better at self control. It peaked for us at 4 I think. I do suspect ADHD for her. I haven’t looked into heavy play but I will—I suspect that would help her!
Our son had episodes like this and it turned out to be severe adhd. I networked my way to a mom who had dealt with similar issues and she said when they do this to put them in a bear hug so they can’t hurt you and keep saying “I love you and I won’t let you hurt me.” Amazingly it worked (not instantly of course, it took time to come down from being so amped up.) He is now 9 and doing great (medication plus positive parenting plus a great IEP at school have worked wonders for us.) good luck!
My son was exactly like this and he ended up w an autism diagnosis. But since your daughter is 3 that time where shes probably potty trained.. it would be a good idea to get her checked for a UTI. UTis make children/elderly bat shit crazy.. for some reason if your in between those age groups you just feel discomfort and thats about it.
Just an extra thing to consider. I know a child who had exactly this from 2yo to 5yo, periods of feral and totally uncontrollable behaviour while otherwise well behaved. Their parents eventually discovered it was mainly triggered by the kid eating artificial food colourings, specifically those in certain brands of custard or marshmallows here in the UK.
[https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/food-colours-and-hyperactivity/](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/food-colours-and-hyperactivity/)
This sounds incredibly stressful for your entire family, especially your daughter. She is clearly becoming incredibly disregulated and these meltdowns are her brain’s last resort.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the laughter. It doesn’t mean she’s enjoying what’s happening. She’s 3, likely with some sort of developmental delay, so is currently not able to name or process emotions appropriately. Her brain is confused and she’s laughing instead of, say, crying. That’s not a conscious choice, and can happen even to neurotypical people (some have the urge to laugh at funerals, for instance).
Do you notice any common triggers that lead up to these meltdowns? Sounds, lights, smells, disruptions in schedule? I’d urge you to pay close attention to her days, even take notes, to see if there’s a common denominator (or even more than one) and see if you can do anything to mitigate that. It sounds like the OT has also recommended things to help with sensory seeking. We have a trampoline and lots of fidgets, but you could also get a sensory swing, a crash pad, climbing equipment, etc.
Last, I urge you to change the language you use when speaking about this. I’m sure you love your daughter very much, but referring to a struggling child as “feral” is dehumanizing. She’s not an animal. These are meltdowns.
I also have a book recommendation; The Explosive Child by Ross Greene.
We called those behaviors the red zone with my one daughter. I started a diary ( it was a major nuisance) charting, sleep, food , drink, activities even allergy meds ( doctor prescribed) and Tylenol. After a month we found certain foods, a particular allergy medication, lack of sleep contributed to her behavior. After changing things her behavior improved, personality wise she is still high needs, high activity but it’s better controlled. When she was younger and she got too far into red zone swaddling her in a blanket and rocking her would help ( though that was not always an option ). Hope this helps it’s a least a suggestion.
Definitely she isn’t enjoying it. I can’t say because I’m not there, but laughter can be a deflection, an “escape tactic” for the brain. She’s so escalated that she’s doing anything with her body and who she is, her thinking brain is just along for the ride.
Y’all need support. A behavior therapist you trust, they exist in medical worlds, can your pediatrician help? Waiting lists in my area are long, but cancellations happen and appointments often open up.
If you’re in the states, you may get some support from your local school district if you request an evaluation for preschool special education. On the long side that could take up to 4 months from the date of your request. It could and probably will go shorter. Now the bump here is that it will help her ability to access the preschool environment, but sometimes help in one area can help in all. And often school teams can offer help to work on things at home.
In addition to the Explosive Child, I also recommend reading or listening to the Whole Brain Child — at least to the point where it describes how the child’s prefrontal cortex is no longer engaging in these tantrums, and how her primitive part of her brain is driving her responses. I found neither of these books to be some magical correction, but did help me understand things just a bit better.
And although I hesitate to minimize your challenges or suggest that all children are the same, but I will share in case it gives you hope — but my son was violent and so inflexible with rage during toddler through kindergarten years. And he really did improve with age and consistent guidance. He still has a lot of quirks and needs a solid routine to focus on, but he focuses these strong emotions in working out and he has not had this type of rage for several years now, even though back in those days, it was hard to imagine things would ever be OK.
Firstly, I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s is so tough. Asking for help is exactly what you should be doing, keep up the great work!
My child has similar struggles. My advice is to Seek out every avenue of help that you can. We are in OT, ECFE programs, finally just started seeing a specialized pediatrician that has recommended us to get a full psychiatric evaluation. We are also waiting for a behavioral therapist. All in all we’ve been on wait lists and seeing specials for the majority of our kiddos life.
Some days we feel like it’s getting better and just today we were talking about how tough the last few weeks have been.
We have been listening to / reading as many books as we can. The Whole Brain Child and The Yes Brain are two books recently that have given a lot of good perspective.
Recently we’ve wondered if they have Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) but are always careful to not diagnose things ourselves. The psych eval coming up will
hopefully help with that. It’s taken us 3 years to get recommended to and get on a waiting list for this.
Some great advice that I’ve received is to treat symptoms.
I hope this helps and I hope you find help navigating this!
My best friends son used to have violent tantrums at this age. It was so bad she’d have to pin him to the floor to keep everyone safe. He grew out of it, but it was rough. This probably isn’t helpful but you definitely aren’t alone!!
It might help to learn some judo holds (my go-to was Kuzure Kesa Gatame) so that you can restrain her without hurting her, while feeling calm in yourself at the same time.
You want to immobalise the arms so that she can't hit or scratch, and position your face away from her head so she can't headbutt you. Ideally, she can kick her legs into a clear space, but not move you around using them.
When my kid was three and did this a lot, I found that I was much more effective at helping him with co-regulation when I didn't have to be so alert to preventing him hurting me. The hold meant I could concentrate on soothing him, and that he could believe me when I said, "You're safe, I won't let you hurt me," because I was easily preventing any hurt.
Little kids need to know that their grown up can protect them, even from themselves.
My eldest has ADHD. At the age of 3 he had the most violent episodes I've seen from a kid that age. Standard behavioural techniques did nothing but enrage him more.
Those, I now know, were meltdowns. My child was regularly entering fight or flight mode and seemingly, the smallest of things would trigger it. Particularly the word 'no'.
Some kids, additional needs or not, diagnosed or not, have a quicker survival response activation. Some kids have pathological demand avoidance and sometimes the simple request of 'Can you take your coat off please?' results in them flipping their lid....
Interesting phrase there...
We had a family support worker explain how their brains work. If you take your left hand and hold it up, then wrap your fingers around your thumb in a sort of fist... the thumb represents our amygdala responsible for survival. The fingers wrapped around the thumb represent our prefrontal cortex responsible for emotional regulation, consequential thinking etc.
When our kids are bombarded with things that upset them, sounds, words, lights, smells, it makes them flip their lid. Take that fist you've made and pop those fingers out. Once that lid is flipped, they have very little control over the actions. Their survival brain takes over and they cannot hear the words you are saying.
Add to this, kids with ADHD have a smaller, less developed prefrontal cortex so they are less able to regulate their emotions and more likely to flip their lid.
I'm not sure what you want from this post, whether you want a sense of solidarity or some guidance on possible next steps?
You are certainly not alone even though it feels like it.
Would you like a list of things that helped us through our journey? My son is now 6 and we have an arsenal of stuff that helps us.
Your kid is not bad. They are not badly behaved. At age 3 they are not naughty (I hate that word). ALL BEHAVIOURS, INCLUDING NEGATIVE ONES, ARE THERE FOR A REASON. They are not there because your 3 year old feels like being difficult either. They are trying to communicate with you in the only way their brains know how.
The trick is learning your kids language... and helping others to understand it too.
I’m unsure where you are, but our state has free early intervention. We had my son evaluated at his daycare when he was three by the school district. He has a team of supporters now and is so much better. We also go through our insurance to specialist recommended by our pediatrician. The more early support she has the better it will be.
Unfortunately Early Intervention is only up to the 3rd birthday. But an evaluation through the school district would definitely be in order, and potential access to preschool through them would probably be great.
I dont think Reddit can give u specific advice.
I would say please see a child psychologist who specialises in this. I don’t know where you reside but I do know medical care in the US is hard (from what I’ve read here) and it can take a long time.
But I’d say find someone and take the time to do this cause getting the right care now will set her up for life.
I work with adults who are neurodivergent/have developmental trauma and I cannot stress enough the importance of the right care EARLY on.
My son has some violent outbursts and issues as well. He is in a developmental preschool. I'm not going to rehash professional suggestions that have already been given, but what we've found most effective (and found out the preschool was doing as well) is when no amount of calm talking, timers, or attempts at smooth transitioning is working: we take him outside and do some intense exercise to "get his energies out." In my experience restraint and isolation escalates the issue.
My daughter went through something very similar starting at 18 months, she's now about to turn 3 and has definite sensory processing issues, possibly Autism (we did actually receive one medical diagnosis of ASD so far but are seeking a second opinion). We've been working with early intervention, occupational therapy, and speech therapy with great success, but every now and then she still has a big meltdown like you described.
For us, walking away if she continues to be "somewhat" violent (hitting, kicking) after a warning is usually the first move. She'll scream and cry but will stay put until she burns through her anger (staying to comfort is not an option, she would only continue to lash out so we don't restrain). If she does get up to follow after us and try and hurt us, or if the act of violence was bigger, like biting or trying to kick our cat, we go straight to her room. Tell her why she's getting a break/timeout, then shut the door. Go back in the same # of minutes as her age and try to hug/talk it out. Most of the time she's willing to be calmed by then, but the few occasions that she's still raging we repeat the time out.
Best of luck, I hope you can get some more help soon with other therapies or an evaluation. I know speech growth helped my daughter a ton too as she's learned the skills to communicate her needs better.
Telling a story helps us about a similar situation that happened to us when we were upset. My kid has the same problem and is growing out of it. From what I’ve seen, it comes from a profound anger and frustration that they are hurting anyone at all. It also feels like a snapping point, like what sets them off is the last straw. A therapist helped us with this, as some of it has to do with a power struggle.
I think you have a great daycare since she feels comfortable enough to exhibit the same behavior that she does at home. I think that you might be needing family therapy though. Good luck. ❤️
My son has autism and likely adhd and does the same thing. Request a referral to a developmental pediatrician. At the same time, start calling around to child psychologists for an autism /adhd evaluation. The wait lists for both will be long.
You should also request an evaluation from your local school district for an IEP. It will take 3-4 months to finish the evaluation.
My daughter would scream and writhe on the floor as a toddler like she was possessed and I remember it freaking me out. I would definitely see a neuropsych for a diagnosis if possible (my kid ended up being autistic). I feel like there is a lot of trial and error to the rest. Waking her up from a nap was a major trigger as were short transitions. She basically needs twice the time to move from one activity to another. Making sure she also isn’t overstimulated is also important. For me kid specifically swinging in a hammock and arial yoga helped as well - something about the vestibular system.
Has the OT recommended redirecting behaviours? Eg: "I recognise you need to bite, you can't bite me but you can bite this" and offering a crunchy snack or a chew. This probably won't work for when they are in an incredibly disregulated state, but if you start when they're are more regulated, it might help.
I would also recommend keeping a diary of when these outbursts happened and what other things happened that day to try and build up a bigger picture.
But yeah, I agree with other people that you might need to see some more specialists to get more advice. OTs are great, but maybe you need a broader picture of need to get on top of this.
They probably do mean a urinary tract infection. It can sometimes cause really ragey behavior in kids - often the sort of irrational things you'd see in a feverish child but they don't always present with other physical symptoms.
I do- young children and the elderly seem to have neuro and behavioral problems with a urinary tract infection. We see a lot of of old people whose family assume they are demented, but it's a UTI. Some antibiotics later, they are fine.
This is going to sound like I’m joking, but have you tried avoiding red dye in foods? It makes some kids act up. I don’t know much about it but a classmate of my kid has a reaction to red dye. Some variants of red dye are banned in California and Europe.
Bipolar doesnt happen to a 3 yr old. This to me sounds like autism. I have two kids on the spectrum and OP post is identical to my children’s behavior at that age. OP if you read this 2-5 were pretty rough but my son is a great kid now, just had a hard time and would laugh like you mentioned. OP needs to get an assesment done for autism or developmental delay.
My sister was like this from 2-6. She would occasionally get so out of control that we’d have to lock her in the house with the rest of us outside, and wait for her to wear herself out. It was….a lot.
Unfortunately this was many decades ago, so my sister went undiagnosed until a year ago. And it was indeed ADHD.
For what it’s worth, she’s a well adjusted adult with a huge circle of friends. You’d never guess what she was like as a young child.
Check out Dr Becky on deeply feeling kids- the free podcast is a good start, but she also has a course for more in-depth info. Some kids are wired differently with regards to getting a no, and this was helpful for us for our likely ADHD kiddo (along with OT, some school behavioral interventions, and tbh, time- ages 3-4 were really tough, turned a corner around 5).
When my toddler acts beyond reason I have to literally sit with him in "The Chair" while I hold his legs down with my legs and keep a tug on his wrists. I do not like to do this and this is only when he's gone past wanting to listen to anything, but if I don't he'll bite, kick, or slap me. We'll sit like that for a few minutes while he calms down or when he's ready to talk. The good news is most of the time he's good at regulating himself, but there are days he just can't handle his emotions. There is nothing wrong with him, he just feels strongly about things.
This sounds like my two-year old. She spirals recently and becomes completely unhinged. A few things that work for us - various combinations work:
“Name it to tame it”
Getting outside in the thick of nature
Bringing her along on a series of tasks I am completing
Prolonged bear hug
Play therapy - HUGE right now
I recommend zero screen time.
I notice my kids acting like assgoles after I allow them more than 20 min of screentime.
I also recommend a set bed time 7pm and wake up time around 7-8
Regular sleep can help.
Proper Hydration and Nutrition are a given.
Other than that, you may need to seek medical help
My sister had episodes like this at around that age
At the time, she was diagnosed with ODD (which I understand has fallen out of fashion for kids? Someone correct me), but has since been diagnosed with MDD, GAD, and ADHD.
I would see a child psychiatrist/psychologist, or a behavioral therapists.
God I’m so sorry. This sounds impossible. Have you heard of pathological demand avoidance? If you think it’s relevant, here’s an amazing resource: https://www.atpeaceparents.com
Please look into a behavioral therapist for your child. It would help greatly, and if you needed to ever restrain her (which it sounds like you’re doing), doing it properly and being trained on how to restrain safely are really really important. Not to be alarmist, but kids die from improper restraints. I work in special education and have experience with children on the autism spectrum with severe aggression like you’re describing OP, and it’s really really important to know what you’re doing if you restrain to reduce trauma to both yourself and the child being restrained. A behavioral therapist should have the training and experience to help you with knowing when and how and how long it’s safe to restrain a child that small and young. Also, look into a developmental pediatrician to rule out autism. Autism and ADHD are often co-morbid, and many people with autism have a 1st degree relative (parent or siblings) with either autism or ADHD.
Good luck OP. Hoping for better times ahead for you and your child.
My almost-3-y/o daughter went through the same thing as OP's and both her Early Intervention team and OT recommended a break in her room when she became violent. It's the only thing that gets through to her--if you bite/scratch/kick me after a warning, you cannot stay with me. The timeout is age appropriate, so only 2-3 minutes and then Dad or I go in to check on her. 9/10 times she's ready for a hug and talking things out calmly by then.
Nope. You bite, you go in the room. No last resort, the punishment fits the crime. Lay down the rules and back them, kids will know who is in charge.
My little boy lightly smacked his mum the other day and immediately apologised and cuddled her, because he knows the adults are in charge, and the adults say no hitting.
Yes… the point of an adult, to a child, is safety and security. That comes from your leader - the person who has “power” as you put it.
Just like at school, college, university, work.
Im most aspects of life, someone is “in power” as you put it, and rules are made. Rules that we all follow. So less of the attempt to twist it, perhaps you ought to think about the times breaking the rules is considered bad, and then figure out whether its a good idea to instill that into a person; sooner or later.
Its becoming a major issue that people think these are last resorts. If you bite me, as an adult, you’ll be lucky to be restrained and put in a room, chances are i’m going to go straight back at you.
This is a consequence of being an adult; you will find people who will treat you the same as you treat them.
Our job with children is to get them ready for the world. The world isn’t always pleasant.
Treat them like there are no “harsh” consequences, and you will have children who do not know how to deal with them, and kids who have never suffered any real consequences grow up to repeat them and push unnacceptable boundaries.
She needs a proper assessment and meds. I say this with kindness. She can’t control it. It’s not fair to her. She laughs because she is so out of control. She has no idea what to do. Often mood stabilizers are used for this such as lamotragine. Get her to a doctor asap for evaluation.
A lot of people are throwing out professions, diagnoses, etc. but I honestly just feel it’s being a 3 year old girl — boys do have similar behaviour but my experience is the little women, at least mine, run hot like jet fuel when angry.
My own is similar, and physically holding for timeout would work sometimes, often it would wind her up more. What has worked is locking her in her room, either with us in there or by herself after explaining why and how she can get out (stopping x behaviour). It’s hard, as they scream and cry but after a few sessions they learn. It’s a safe place with less harmful furniture to hurt themselves on.
Napping would help us immensely but she refuses.
Wow what an incredibly rude way to say that.
OP my youngest was like this. She drove me to tears daily between ages 2-4ish. She's 7 now and was just diagnosed with ADHD. With a LOT of consistent boundary setting and sensory input to help her regulate she's gotten a lot better. She still has anger issues but she doesn't attack us anymore (hasn't for a few years now, that stopped around 4, 4.5ish).
We weren't able to get her into therapy at the worst of it due to COVID and just living in an area without easy access to care. So we implemented a lot of things at home. Visual schedule, timers, clearly set expectations with consequences set in advance. Lots of warnings for transitions...so many timers, set a timer for everything!
"The Explosive Child" by Ross Green has a lot of good tips. It's not about the behavior or finding a diagnosis to explain the behavior as much as it is giving your child support for the skills they lack.
Thank you for the significantly more constructive response. Just ordered "The Explosive Child".
Can you say more about the sensory input? That's what our daughter's OT is focused on with her. We have implemented some of her suggestions - could probably do a better job giving her more of the physical input, e.g. the "proprioceptive input" in the evenings. But I'm struggling with the feeling that this isn't actually going to address the behavior.
Maybe we just need to stick with it longer, like you did...I feel really upset and hopeless right now.
>I feel really upset and hopeless right now.
OP, I remember feeling exactly like this. I remember standing behind a baby gate holding it shut as my kid screamed and threw herself against it, trying to get to me to hurt me. Feral is exactly how I described her. Like someone above speculated I wondered if it was bipolar disorder because we have a family history and these freakouts came in waves. Weeks of calm and then she would suddenly flip a switch. I've since learned that autism and ADHD, particularly in women/girls, is often misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder. Currently in the process of figuring out if that's the case with me(diagnosed bipolar 2, then also with ADHD and autism, my doctor thinks the bipolar diagnosis might not be right given the new diagnoses).
Sensory wise we provided a lot of deep pressure when she was that age. Squeezes, rolling her in a blanket and squishing her in it(we called it the burrito game), weighted blankets,etc. Swinging and jumping are also great for sensory seekers. I don't recommend a trampoline for safety reasons. But an exercise ball to bounce on maybe.
Each night before bed we do "blanket swings" with all 3 of our kids. My husband and I hold a blanket like a hammock and swing them each ten times. Helps them feel more regulated and ready to calm down for bed.
That is so, so helpful - thank you. My kiddo loves swinging, the blanket swings are a great suggestion. I'll try that immediately.
Good luck with your diagnosis, would not surprise me if it was wrong initially. Medical research has been appallingly ignorant of women's unique health issues.
Thanks again for taking the time to write a compassionate and helpful reply. <3
Hey! It will address the behaviour in the long run.
Procioceptive inputs stimulate the brain and our procioceptive ability plays a big role in emotional regulation. So these seemingly unrelated things that will definitely not be a quick fix - will work over months and years. So please continue. The comments have some great suggestions by parents with similar experiences. Good luck. Really rooting for you.
As someone who works with adults on the other side of this - it gets better if you have the resources of time, care and money.
I also worked in special ed (as a para) and now work as a preschool teacher with 3s. These COVID babies have had inherently traumatic formative years. As a sped teacher you should have a better idea of what trauma does the brain, and have way more compassion. Do better.
"Wired wrong", disgusting language.
If you're burnt out stop teaching. This certainly isn't a job you do for the money. Maybe reflect on if its actually beneficial for anyone, particularly your students, for you to be in the classroom. You aren't helping anyone with this attitude.
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Kindly, I think you are burnt out. You sound miserable. The kids you work with know you look down on them, as do the parents.
You are also seriously projecting on op.
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This is exactly what happens with my daughter who is now five. She’s been in occupational therapy and it’s helped us to understand how to help her sensory seeking behavior but it’s so obvious that something else is going on because she just can’t control herself and she makes her 14 yr old sister cry because she will not stop hitting or biting and the more we tell her to stop the more she does it and can’t seem to stop herself. We try to hug her to us to stop her and it causes her to become hysterical. I’ve been trying to find a therapist but they tell me no one will do ADHD testing until she is six and there is a huge wait list at every place I call for therapy.
Yes, I have talked with her, we just haven’t been able to find anyone that is available to do anything. I have referrals from her OT and her PCP ready as soon as we find somewhere.
ETA: I have ADHD and a little OCD so that’s why that was the first suspicion.
Sounds neurodivergent. I have 3 ND kids and my eldest, who has PDA and ADHD, was like this at the same age. He's 8 now and much better, he takes meds for his adhd and attends a special school.
If one of you has adhd the chances of an adhd and otherwise ND child is sky high. Me and my husband are both ND and the only kid we have that isn't known to be is a baby so too young to know.
Someone else commented something similar but my ten year old has sensory issues but not full blown sensory processing disorder and a few things that help when he can’t control his body (actually, I’m going to leave this but when he has gotten to the point he can’t control his body we have to ride it out a bit. These things are good ways to avoid getting to that point.)
- keeping his body active. It’s almost like how you have to work a dog
- enough sleep
- enough food
- laying on him. Or squeezing him and holding him tightly. He’ll say he doesn’t like the squeezing but after a minute or two I feel his body relax and then after he’ll admit it did feel good but he didn’t want to admit it
Things that don’t actually help:
- talking it out tbh
It will get better with age. My son had similar issues at 2 and at 6 has largely evened out. They’ve got big emotions in tiny bodies and they’re trying to be heard and express. I would side on make sure you always prep for things, no quick transitions, and empower her to get feelings out in acceptable ways. Don’t shame, don’t fear a brat, just be aware that she has more than she can manage and needs help with that.
If you live in Canada, you can also call Strongest Families at 1 (866) 470-7111
They’re over-the-phone and I can attest to how well their courses work. It’s completely free and you can retake the courses as many times as you need.
See a doctor. Sounds like my daughter, she has severe ADHD and impulse control problems.
She is thriving now since I got guidelines on how to deal differently with her.
It is scary and frustrating but whatever you do, don’t lose your temper during these meltdowns. Dicipline won’t help either in these cases, they don’t hear you or register anything in their nearest environment when they are having a meltdown.
Just stay calm and tell her you are ready when she is. And when she calms down give her a hug and cuddles. This will make her feel more secure with time which in turn will cause less meltdowns.
Her feelings are a lot bigger than she can handle.
I'd suggest expanding your team to include a play therapist and also have her evaluated (neuropsych eval). I'd consider things like language processing disorders as well. My brother presented with similarly violent outbursts around that age; it turned out he had a language processing disorder that was very much part of the issue.
You're daughter is probably autistic.
Talk with a therapist who specializes in autism.
Her behavior sounds to me like her having autistic fits. She gets oversimulated from situational triggers stressful situations or things that make her feel overwhelmed.
Help her find a daily routine that's organized and consistent and see if that helps improve her behavior.
in fact when she lashes out it is best to give her space to express herself then wait for her to calm down and feel safe before interacting with her again.
This sounds like stress behaviour: https://www.allanarobinson.com/what-exactly-is-stress/
The OT is right, but her advice is stopping a bit short. She needs facilitation, and for you to stop talking to her. When a child is that deeply dysregulated they can’t process language and will perceive any language as an attack.
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I don’t think that an OT is the correct professional for this. I think you need a behavioral therapist. I’d go back to your doctor and get a referral to a developmental pediatrician.
A behavioral therapist added to the team with the OT would be even better actually. Sensory dysregulation can make things incredibly difficult especially if it’s painful (like loud noises). A lot of OTs will also help kids who are sensory avoidant and sensory seeking to find the right balance of input/output which helps to decrease the unsafe and violent behaviors. OP just know you are not alone and I definitely think a behavioral therapist would be beneficial as an evaluation can tell you which direction you may need to move.
Actually an OT is exactly the person you want for this as well as a pediatrician.
It really depends on the OT. Not every OT should be addressing behavioral outbursts.
Speaking as an OT, it would be good to back it up with a playbased therapist or behavioural therapist. When kids are in that extreme heightened state of emotion, they can't access their tools to regulate enotion in the moment. Seeing parents struggle, if the OT alone isn't enough, try a different route.
Well said.
We have a handful of OT clinics that are exactly for this purpose. I’ve bright my ADHD daughter to one, my friend whose son has autism sees one weekly.
Yeah I’m totally not saying OT isn’t the way to go. OT can absolutely address it but you really want to vet the OT. Some OTs are great at ADLs, some are great at behavior, some at feeding… every one is very different. You don’t want to just go with any pediatric OT for something like behavior.
Well no, you go to the ones that specialize in behaviour, and many do.
Speaking as a child psychologist who specializes in problem behavior, occupational therapy is NOT an empirically supported treatment for significant problem behavior. Sure, their recs may be helpful for a child who is frustrated due to skill deficits or overwhelmed due to overstimulation, but a problem this severe needs specialized care. This OT’s recs have not been helpful because this problem is way beyond the scope of an OT’s training.
How do you know what our scope is though? Your expertise is in child psychology thus it's your role to know what falls within your scope...not that of other disciplines. Also what evidence do you have to suggest that OT is not empirically supported in this population? I'm well aware of several studies that many psych interventions have poor evidence yet it is used because it is the best we have at the moment. Any OT worth their salt would collaborate in severe behavior kids to ensure that they're receiving the appropriate treatment. OTs as a matter of fact are also specialized in function (I.e. The daily activities that someone needs or wants to do) thus your speciality in child psychology is equivalent to our specialty in child and adult function.
How does a gastroenterologist know that a neurologist is less knowledgable than them about gastrointestinal conditions? Because a neurologist is not a gastroenterologist. OTs do themselves no favors by claiming to be experts in treating behavior problems. I’ve worked with a lot of great OTs in hospital settings who acknowledge that most OTs have no specialized behavioral training. Here is a policy statement put out by the American Academy of Pediatrics that details empirically supported treatments for clinically significant behavioral problems in children: https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/138/6/e20163023/52605/Addressing-Early-Childhood-Emotional-and?autologincheck=redirected# ^^ OTs are not qualified to implement any of those interventions. As far as I can tell, evidence-based assessments and interventions for diagnosable pediatric behavior problems are not on your licensing exam. I’m not talking about something comprehensive like the Vineland, I mean specialized instruments and interventions that require extensive training and supervision to administer. Things that are norm referenced and have been validated for behavioral symptoms through a randomized controlled trial. Does that mean OTs can never help with behavior? Of course not. I acknowledged that OTs are qualified to use common sense strategies like desensitization and teaching functional skills, which can help reduce minor behavioral issues.
Have you heard of “heavy play”? It’s a type of sensory play where the child needs to lift, push, pull, move heavy things to give a resistance to their muscles kind of. Also, my ADHD little used to get absolutely wild when overtired almost as a way of keeping himself alert and fighting it.
This sounds like my 3 year old (I have my suspicions re: ADHD, but it's too early for diagnoses). She's a bit like a husky puppy - she needs enough physical exercise during the day to tire her out. But if she's too tired it's a bad scene, and that's when epic meltdowns happen (she is the master of fighting the nap).
As someone with a nearly 5 year old who has been in ABA and had his diagnosis for over two years, who is telling you that it is too early?
ADHD diagnostic criteria mean you cannot be diagnosed before age 6. ABA is typically for autism.
Oh my gosh you are right I read autism. Flu brain
Oh no, I hope you feel better soon!
Sure, but that’s an official diagnosis. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing possible until 6. My kid’s 5 now and has been followed by a pediatrician for anxiety and possible adhd for at least a year now. I know she has it. The pediatrician knows she has it. Her teacher knows she has it. We’re supporting her where she’s at.
I've also heard it called "heavy work". Digging a deep hole and lifting heavy things are good examples, as is jumping up and down.
My 18mo used to stack literal bricks like a block tower. She loved it and I loved the heavy work she was getting in.
Yes, and big jumps! Hitting the ground with all their weight is such a sensory experience.
Heavy play and balance play are incredibly beneficial for ADHD kids AND adults! Wobble boards, trampolines, heavy blocks, jumping stones, places to do big jumps are all excellent for helping with ADHD symptoms.
My youngest did the same thing between 3 and 5 years old. It reminds me exactly of what you are describing. He would get in a hamster wheel of anger and it escalated to a point of him almost being scary to me. When he would get like that I would hold him tightly and rock back and forth. He would scream at me that he hated me and wished I was never born, trying to wiggle himself out of my grip. I would tell him calmly that it was ok to feel that way and that I will still love him. He is 6 now and it seems to have subsided for the most part. We have not had an episode in several months. I got him into play therapy and it made a WORLD of difference. He has an IEP in school now (look for early intervention services in your area) to help support him. He has been diagnosed as having an early childhood developmental disability. Sometimes they grow out of it, sometimes it turns into something else. Thanks to play therapy and an amazing Kindergarten teacher this year he is able to label his feelings and express them much more eloquently. Some kids are really smart but don't have the words yet to be able to express what's going on, so it comes out in BIG ways. That's what happened with my kiddo. I cannot recommend play therapy enough! It really has worked so well for my kiddo! Good luck. It is not easy. ❤️
My son is 4 and we are on our second year of this. I have a visceral reaction to my phone ringing while he is at school. I am so thankful that his current school recognizes this behavior as unfortunately typical to a small number of children and are helping him work through it. He has also been on an IEP for almost a full year now. We are working on getting him into play therapy. He has his guidance counselor and the SPED teacher that each work with him during the week. His teacher always reminds me that he really is a sweet kid. He had a major behavior issue 2 months ago where he really hurt his friend in class (she is totally fine and her mom was so nice when we spoke about the incident, really appreciated the compassion). Things have been better since then, but there are also more safety measures in place to make sure he is never too far from an adult. Your story give me hope. Thank you for sharing
I have six kids with an array of developmental disabilities. For one of my children, who I won't identify to protect their privacy, there was a good few years where they were red flagged for conduct disorder, the pediatric version of antisocial personality disorder. It was terrifying. I remember sitting up at night after a particularly rough day sobbing to my husband that I was terrified they were going to become a school shooter or something equally horrific. There were times when I would be laying on my child for 2+ hours just trying to prevent them from harming themselves or others while they raged. Now, after years of therapy and a lot of trial and error on medications, we have found a sweet spot for my child. It turns out these behaviors that were being attributed to a lack of empathy were in fact deeply rooted insecurities and shame. My child felt such profound dislike of themselves that they would spiral behaviorally. Also, although at the time they had two diagnoses, getting the rest of their disorders diagnosed helped us to pinpoint both treatment and medication. I think a comprehensive psych eval is a good place to start, with another note - your child is three. Look for a child psychologist that accepts your insurance and specializes in developmental disorders. My child above ended up with multiple diagnoses, but ultimately getting their OCD diagnosed and treated, both with medication and CBT, made the biggest difference. Hugs, OP.
What are the other five’s developmental disabilities, if you don’t mind me asking? Are they all ranges of the same thing (OCD, etc) or all different? One of my kids is 4 and we feel like there’s something not quite right but can’t get any support. He isn’t antisocial / disruptive and is instead super sweet and obedient which I feel like makes every other adult more dismissive of concerns. Meanwhile he has crazy meltdowns. So just kinda curious what you’ve had diagnosed in all your kids…something I can look out for maybe
Autism is the common thread. The rest are comorbidities shared by some or all of them. I'm autistic as well, though, so we are not shocked! I say we have the full spectrum in our home - for some of my kids, most people question if they are actually autistic because they are so good at masking (passing as neurotypical by suppressing visibly autistic traits). Others of my children have high support needs and will need lifelong care. I think if you have any concerns for your child's development, an evaluation is a good place to start. My most visibly autistic kids were diagnosed first, then I was, then we went ahead and screened my other kids after my diagnosis. For two of my kids the diagnosis came a surprise, I was sure they only had ADHD, but now that I know it's hard to miss. Some of them are OCD, ADHD, generalized anxiety disorder, social anxiety, global hypotonia, CDKL5 disorder (a genetic condition), global developmental delay, oppositional defiant disorder, myocolonic atonic epilepsy, and intellectual disability. I'm pretty sure I'm missing some. This is spread amongst all six of my kids, no one kid has all of the diagnoses.
For a moment, I was terrified that just one kid had all those conditions
Not the commenter above, but ones to look into: sensory processing disorder, oppositional defiance disorder, hyperlexia, adhd, autism. They’re all some version of neurodivergence. Ours was sensory processing disorder & that caused the massive meltdowns. Good luck, follow your gut. Don’t let anyone tell you there’s nothing wrong because your kid isn’t disruptive. You have to advocate for them, and it’s really hard. Internet hugs
I feel like he has some type of sensory processing disorder for sure. He is EXTREMELY sensitive to any sound, like he would jerk up if he heard someone on the stairs. And when he was younger he would literally cry if he heard a sound he couldn’t identify, or a loud sound outside (eg construction). Plus he can’t blow his nose or kiss yet…that’s not a published milestone but it seems like some type of yellow flag that 2 yr olds can blow or pick their nose and he can’t seem to figure it out at almost 5… The thing is, I read there isn’t really a solution or treatment for it, so even if we went to a therapist (which he’s in for anxiety) what could be an outcome?… it’s usually something that’s treated “with” a diagnosis but he doesn’t have markers for autism. Pediatrician and teachers all see him totally fine, just a little clingy.
For us the answer was a pretty intense sensory diet (not a food diet) that was worked out with an OT. I read up a lot on SPD & worked out what areas he needed help in. Then we worked on those areas daily. I made a deck of cards (3x5 notecards) of exercises in the different categories (proprioception, vestibular, etc…) each category had 3-5 exercise choices & 2x daily I had him pick an exercise from each category. Ones that I remember (this was long ago) were things like heavy work (carrying a backpack full of books around the house 3x. Doing bear walk around the house 2-3 times. Wheelbarrow walk. Crab walk, etc… these helped his brain regulate, so we did them daily just like you get dressed or brush your teeth. There’s music therapy for the auditory defensiveness. There’s tactile therapy if clothes/touch are an issue. Basically we had to deliberately teach his brain how to handle some input through repeated intentional exposure. It’s a long road & tough because you have to go right up to what they can tolerate but not past. There’s a lot of building trust. BUT, I now have what most would consider a totally typical but amazing teen. He doesn’t remember all the issues other than we used to do a lot of weird games. He’s able to be in noisy spaces, play instruments & sports, made friends & attends a typical school. Check out: Too Loud, Too Bright, Too Fast, Too Tight: What to Do If You Are Sensory Defensive in an Overstimulating World by shanon heller. It’s a very through starting point for spd.
Thank you for the advice and for sharing your experience. <3 It is terrifying...I didn't want to believe that something was "wrong" at first, but I can't deny that she needs some help which at the moment I do not know how to give.
I have five with varying diagnoses. I often wonder why there are some of us that don't have any neurotypical kids. I have one with serious insecurities as well and you're right. It sets off some horrible behavior. Turning 12 has been rough!
Who is asking you for the identity of your children in order to verify your story?
My 8 year old daughter is on the autism spectrum and this sounds a lot like her at that age. I definitely suggest getting her assessed.
My daughter went through an epic tantrum phase at that age that neither of her brothers did. Like “remove all furniture from her room so she doesn’t hurt herself” level. It was a nightmare that lasted more than a year She eventually grew out of it and is a lovely (most of the time) teenage girl now
My daughter went through exactly what you’re describing at this same age. It SUCKED! Here’s what we did: The parent that was the major focus of her feral rage left the room, stating clearly that they had to leave to keep their body safe. The other parent then held her tight, wrapped in a blanket if we could, and did very loud Sch sch sch sounds like you do with a baby but as loud as possible, almost rhythmic white noise, while rocking her body rather intensely. Not a rough rocking but really big and kind of fast. As she calmed this would turn into gentle shushing and rocking and maybe even some humming. Once things were under control we would talk with her about how much we loved her but that she cannot hurt people including herself. The other parent would also return to do some heart mending as well. We stuck with this process every time and over a couple months these episodes became fewer until they eventually ceased. When we could see the feral child rising we would start talking about how she’s allowed to feel upset but we can’t allow her to hurt anyone including herself. Sometimes this would lead to her asking for a deep squeeze and some rocking and sometimes she would go yell in her room. If the latter the rule was that she could come out when she was done yelling. We had to stay by the door and put her back in many times. It also escalated to feral child and rocking sometimes too. All of this combined really helped her and we are now well past anything even similar to this behavior. We also leaned in to heavy and physical play which helped a lot. We hung a trapeze bar with rings for her in the house and it was like a new chapter opened. We also consulted her doctor and his recommendation was that we were handling this correctly. That maybe she has ADHD but he felt strongly that diagnosis this early is often inaccurate and leads to more complications like medicating children that don’t actually need it. He said if this was still going on when she was 5 we would look into that. It is thankfully NOT happening anymore. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t have ADHD but that the solution to this particular problem was found outside of a diagnosis. Good luck. I seriously feel you and if you have any questions or just need to commiserate feel free to DM me.
thank you for not medicating your daughter at such a young age. this subreddit is so med happy that I am concerned that many parents here rush to find a diagnosis and prescription to “fix” whatever the issue is - sure sometimes it may be a diagnosis but why wouldn’t you medicate your toddler as an ABSOLUTE last resort? I was medicated since I was five and do not have ADHD or autism (was evaluated as an adult and confirmed this despite a pediatric diagnosis), and it caused me so many problems, both psychological and physical. I have arthritis in my twenties because of the med side effects, among so many other issues.
My daughter was similar to this at age 3-5. Especially the maniacal laughter and losing control reminded me of her. Our journey was similar to yours but we also found that, against most current parenting advice, we could “snap her out of it” before she went full feral with a serious consequence to her actions. Something like “I can tell you are having really big feelings. That’s ok but behaving wild and hitting and not listening is not ok. I can help you calm down but only if you’re willing to try. If you keep acting this way I’m going to take away X for the day.” And then we did take away X. Having the big consequence that was carried through immediately when she continued the behavior was enough of a shock and a leash that it would cut her out of the meltdown loop. She would cry and yell about the consequence for a bit but in a controllable way and then when she calmed down we’d talk to her and help her process. For her I think a lot of the behavior was feeling out of control would push her to become out of control and it was a really awful loop. Having really serious and concrete consequences would feel like a hard line and an end point for her and it would break that cycle. At 5.5 she’s doing the maniacal laughter meltdowns much less and is getting better at self control. It peaked for us at 4 I think. I do suspect ADHD for her. I haven’t looked into heavy play but I will—I suspect that would help her!
Our son had episodes like this and it turned out to be severe adhd. I networked my way to a mom who had dealt with similar issues and she said when they do this to put them in a bear hug so they can’t hurt you and keep saying “I love you and I won’t let you hurt me.” Amazingly it worked (not instantly of course, it took time to come down from being so amped up.) He is now 9 and doing great (medication plus positive parenting plus a great IEP at school have worked wonders for us.) good luck!
My son was exactly like this and he ended up w an autism diagnosis. But since your daughter is 3 that time where shes probably potty trained.. it would be a good idea to get her checked for a UTI. UTis make children/elderly bat shit crazy.. for some reason if your in between those age groups you just feel discomfort and thats about it.
Just an extra thing to consider. I know a child who had exactly this from 2yo to 5yo, periods of feral and totally uncontrollable behaviour while otherwise well behaved. Their parents eventually discovered it was mainly triggered by the kid eating artificial food colourings, specifically those in certain brands of custard or marshmallows here in the UK. [https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/food-colours-and-hyperactivity/](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/food-colours-and-hyperactivity/)
This sounds incredibly stressful for your entire family, especially your daughter. She is clearly becoming incredibly disregulated and these meltdowns are her brain’s last resort. I wouldn’t worry too much about the laughter. It doesn’t mean she’s enjoying what’s happening. She’s 3, likely with some sort of developmental delay, so is currently not able to name or process emotions appropriately. Her brain is confused and she’s laughing instead of, say, crying. That’s not a conscious choice, and can happen even to neurotypical people (some have the urge to laugh at funerals, for instance). Do you notice any common triggers that lead up to these meltdowns? Sounds, lights, smells, disruptions in schedule? I’d urge you to pay close attention to her days, even take notes, to see if there’s a common denominator (or even more than one) and see if you can do anything to mitigate that. It sounds like the OT has also recommended things to help with sensory seeking. We have a trampoline and lots of fidgets, but you could also get a sensory swing, a crash pad, climbing equipment, etc. Last, I urge you to change the language you use when speaking about this. I’m sure you love your daughter very much, but referring to a struggling child as “feral” is dehumanizing. She’s not an animal. These are meltdowns. I also have a book recommendation; The Explosive Child by Ross Greene.
Thank you for the suggestions. Point taken on the language used here.
We called those behaviors the red zone with my one daughter. I started a diary ( it was a major nuisance) charting, sleep, food , drink, activities even allergy meds ( doctor prescribed) and Tylenol. After a month we found certain foods, a particular allergy medication, lack of sleep contributed to her behavior. After changing things her behavior improved, personality wise she is still high needs, high activity but it’s better controlled. When she was younger and she got too far into red zone swaddling her in a blanket and rocking her would help ( though that was not always an option ). Hope this helps it’s a least a suggestion.
Definitely she isn’t enjoying it. I can’t say because I’m not there, but laughter can be a deflection, an “escape tactic” for the brain. She’s so escalated that she’s doing anything with her body and who she is, her thinking brain is just along for the ride. Y’all need support. A behavior therapist you trust, they exist in medical worlds, can your pediatrician help? Waiting lists in my area are long, but cancellations happen and appointments often open up. If you’re in the states, you may get some support from your local school district if you request an evaluation for preschool special education. On the long side that could take up to 4 months from the date of your request. It could and probably will go shorter. Now the bump here is that it will help her ability to access the preschool environment, but sometimes help in one area can help in all. And often school teams can offer help to work on things at home.
In addition to the Explosive Child, I also recommend reading or listening to the Whole Brain Child — at least to the point where it describes how the child’s prefrontal cortex is no longer engaging in these tantrums, and how her primitive part of her brain is driving her responses. I found neither of these books to be some magical correction, but did help me understand things just a bit better. And although I hesitate to minimize your challenges or suggest that all children are the same, but I will share in case it gives you hope — but my son was violent and so inflexible with rage during toddler through kindergarten years. And he really did improve with age and consistent guidance. He still has a lot of quirks and needs a solid routine to focus on, but he focuses these strong emotions in working out and he has not had this type of rage for several years now, even though back in those days, it was hard to imagine things would ever be OK.
I second The Explosive Child.
Firstly, I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s is so tough. Asking for help is exactly what you should be doing, keep up the great work! My child has similar struggles. My advice is to Seek out every avenue of help that you can. We are in OT, ECFE programs, finally just started seeing a specialized pediatrician that has recommended us to get a full psychiatric evaluation. We are also waiting for a behavioral therapist. All in all we’ve been on wait lists and seeing specials for the majority of our kiddos life. Some days we feel like it’s getting better and just today we were talking about how tough the last few weeks have been. We have been listening to / reading as many books as we can. The Whole Brain Child and The Yes Brain are two books recently that have given a lot of good perspective. Recently we’ve wondered if they have Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) but are always careful to not diagnose things ourselves. The psych eval coming up will hopefully help with that. It’s taken us 3 years to get recommended to and get on a waiting list for this. Some great advice that I’ve received is to treat symptoms. I hope this helps and I hope you find help navigating this!
My best friends son used to have violent tantrums at this age. It was so bad she’d have to pin him to the floor to keep everyone safe. He grew out of it, but it was rough. This probably isn’t helpful but you definitely aren’t alone!!
It might help to learn some judo holds (my go-to was Kuzure Kesa Gatame) so that you can restrain her without hurting her, while feeling calm in yourself at the same time. You want to immobalise the arms so that she can't hit or scratch, and position your face away from her head so she can't headbutt you. Ideally, she can kick her legs into a clear space, but not move you around using them. When my kid was three and did this a lot, I found that I was much more effective at helping him with co-regulation when I didn't have to be so alert to preventing him hurting me. The hold meant I could concentrate on soothing him, and that he could believe me when I said, "You're safe, I won't let you hurt me," because I was easily preventing any hurt. Little kids need to know that their grown up can protect them, even from themselves.
My eldest has ADHD. At the age of 3 he had the most violent episodes I've seen from a kid that age. Standard behavioural techniques did nothing but enrage him more. Those, I now know, were meltdowns. My child was regularly entering fight or flight mode and seemingly, the smallest of things would trigger it. Particularly the word 'no'. Some kids, additional needs or not, diagnosed or not, have a quicker survival response activation. Some kids have pathological demand avoidance and sometimes the simple request of 'Can you take your coat off please?' results in them flipping their lid.... Interesting phrase there... We had a family support worker explain how their brains work. If you take your left hand and hold it up, then wrap your fingers around your thumb in a sort of fist... the thumb represents our amygdala responsible for survival. The fingers wrapped around the thumb represent our prefrontal cortex responsible for emotional regulation, consequential thinking etc. When our kids are bombarded with things that upset them, sounds, words, lights, smells, it makes them flip their lid. Take that fist you've made and pop those fingers out. Once that lid is flipped, they have very little control over the actions. Their survival brain takes over and they cannot hear the words you are saying. Add to this, kids with ADHD have a smaller, less developed prefrontal cortex so they are less able to regulate their emotions and more likely to flip their lid. I'm not sure what you want from this post, whether you want a sense of solidarity or some guidance on possible next steps? You are certainly not alone even though it feels like it. Would you like a list of things that helped us through our journey? My son is now 6 and we have an arsenal of stuff that helps us. Your kid is not bad. They are not badly behaved. At age 3 they are not naughty (I hate that word). ALL BEHAVIOURS, INCLUDING NEGATIVE ONES, ARE THERE FOR A REASON. They are not there because your 3 year old feels like being difficult either. They are trying to communicate with you in the only way their brains know how. The trick is learning your kids language... and helping others to understand it too.
I’m unsure where you are, but our state has free early intervention. We had my son evaluated at his daycare when he was three by the school district. He has a team of supporters now and is so much better. We also go through our insurance to specialist recommended by our pediatrician. The more early support she has the better it will be.
Unfortunately Early Intervention is only up to the 3rd birthday. But an evaluation through the school district would definitely be in order, and potential access to preschool through them would probably be great.
My state has it up to age 5. I think each state can be different.
I dont think Reddit can give u specific advice. I would say please see a child psychologist who specialises in this. I don’t know where you reside but I do know medical care in the US is hard (from what I’ve read here) and it can take a long time. But I’d say find someone and take the time to do this cause getting the right care now will set her up for life. I work with adults who are neurodivergent/have developmental trauma and I cannot stress enough the importance of the right care EARLY on.
My son has some violent outbursts and issues as well. He is in a developmental preschool. I'm not going to rehash professional suggestions that have already been given, but what we've found most effective (and found out the preschool was doing as well) is when no amount of calm talking, timers, or attempts at smooth transitioning is working: we take him outside and do some intense exercise to "get his energies out." In my experience restraint and isolation escalates the issue.
Don't see an OT. Consider a ABA specialist.
My daughter went through something very similar starting at 18 months, she's now about to turn 3 and has definite sensory processing issues, possibly Autism (we did actually receive one medical diagnosis of ASD so far but are seeking a second opinion). We've been working with early intervention, occupational therapy, and speech therapy with great success, but every now and then she still has a big meltdown like you described. For us, walking away if she continues to be "somewhat" violent (hitting, kicking) after a warning is usually the first move. She'll scream and cry but will stay put until she burns through her anger (staying to comfort is not an option, she would only continue to lash out so we don't restrain). If she does get up to follow after us and try and hurt us, or if the act of violence was bigger, like biting or trying to kick our cat, we go straight to her room. Tell her why she's getting a break/timeout, then shut the door. Go back in the same # of minutes as her age and try to hug/talk it out. Most of the time she's willing to be calmed by then, but the few occasions that she's still raging we repeat the time out. Best of luck, I hope you can get some more help soon with other therapies or an evaluation. I know speech growth helped my daughter a ton too as she's learned the skills to communicate her needs better.
Telling a story helps us about a similar situation that happened to us when we were upset. My kid has the same problem and is growing out of it. From what I’ve seen, it comes from a profound anger and frustration that they are hurting anyone at all. It also feels like a snapping point, like what sets them off is the last straw. A therapist helped us with this, as some of it has to do with a power struggle. I think you have a great daycare since she feels comfortable enough to exhibit the same behavior that she does at home. I think that you might be needing family therapy though. Good luck. ❤️
My son has autism and likely adhd and does the same thing. Request a referral to a developmental pediatrician. At the same time, start calling around to child psychologists for an autism /adhd evaluation. The wait lists for both will be long. You should also request an evaluation from your local school district for an IEP. It will take 3-4 months to finish the evaluation.
My daughter would scream and writhe on the floor as a toddler like she was possessed and I remember it freaking me out. I would definitely see a neuropsych for a diagnosis if possible (my kid ended up being autistic). I feel like there is a lot of trial and error to the rest. Waking her up from a nap was a major trigger as were short transitions. She basically needs twice the time to move from one activity to another. Making sure she also isn’t overstimulated is also important. For me kid specifically swinging in a hammock and arial yoga helped as well - something about the vestibular system.
Has the OT recommended redirecting behaviours? Eg: "I recognise you need to bite, you can't bite me but you can bite this" and offering a crunchy snack or a chew. This probably won't work for when they are in an incredibly disregulated state, but if you start when they're are more regulated, it might help. I would also recommend keeping a diary of when these outbursts happened and what other things happened that day to try and build up a bigger picture. But yeah, I agree with other people that you might need to see some more specialists to get more advice. OTs are great, but maybe you need a broader picture of need to get on top of this.
Have you ruled out a UTI? That would be my first guess.
What’s UTI? I am assuming you don’t mean urinary tract infection.
They probably do mean a urinary tract infection. It can sometimes cause really ragey behavior in kids - often the sort of irrational things you'd see in a feverish child but they don't always present with other physical symptoms.
Thank you
I do- young children and the elderly seem to have neuro and behavioral problems with a urinary tract infection. We see a lot of of old people whose family assume they are demented, but it's a UTI. Some antibiotics later, they are fine.
Really? That’s good to know. Thank you.
This is going to sound like I’m joking, but have you tried avoiding red dye in foods? It makes some kids act up. I don’t know much about it but a classmate of my kid has a reaction to red dye. Some variants of red dye are banned in California and Europe.
You need to contact an experienced child clinician. This is very concerning and could be severe ADHD or bipolar disorder.
Bipolar doesnt happen to a 3 yr old. This to me sounds like autism. I have two kids on the spectrum and OP post is identical to my children’s behavior at that age. OP if you read this 2-5 were pretty rough but my son is a great kid now, just had a hard time and would laugh like you mentioned. OP needs to get an assesment done for autism or developmental delay.
My sister was like this from 2-6. She would occasionally get so out of control that we’d have to lock her in the house with the rest of us outside, and wait for her to wear herself out. It was….a lot. Unfortunately this was many decades ago, so my sister went undiagnosed until a year ago. And it was indeed ADHD. For what it’s worth, she’s a well adjusted adult with a huge circle of friends. You’d never guess what she was like as a young child.
Check out Dr Becky on deeply feeling kids- the free podcast is a good start, but she also has a course for more in-depth info. Some kids are wired differently with regards to getting a no, and this was helpful for us for our likely ADHD kiddo (along with OT, some school behavioral interventions, and tbh, time- ages 3-4 were really tough, turned a corner around 5).
When my toddler acts beyond reason I have to literally sit with him in "The Chair" while I hold his legs down with my legs and keep a tug on his wrists. I do not like to do this and this is only when he's gone past wanting to listen to anything, but if I don't he'll bite, kick, or slap me. We'll sit like that for a few minutes while he calms down or when he's ready to talk. The good news is most of the time he's good at regulating himself, but there are days he just can't handle his emotions. There is nothing wrong with him, he just feels strongly about things.
This sounds like my two-year old. She spirals recently and becomes completely unhinged. A few things that work for us - various combinations work: “Name it to tame it” Getting outside in the thick of nature Bringing her along on a series of tasks I am completing Prolonged bear hug Play therapy - HUGE right now
I recommend zero screen time. I notice my kids acting like assgoles after I allow them more than 20 min of screentime. I also recommend a set bed time 7pm and wake up time around 7-8 Regular sleep can help. Proper Hydration and Nutrition are a given. Other than that, you may need to seek medical help
yes i'm sure screen time creates severe behavioral conditions like this /s
I'm not sure it does, that's why I said she may need to see a medical professional.
My sister had episodes like this at around that age At the time, she was diagnosed with ODD (which I understand has fallen out of fashion for kids? Someone correct me), but has since been diagnosed with MDD, GAD, and ADHD. I would see a child psychiatrist/psychologist, or a behavioral therapists.
God I’m so sorry. This sounds impossible. Have you heard of pathological demand avoidance? If you think it’s relevant, here’s an amazing resource: https://www.atpeaceparents.com
Please look into a behavioral therapist for your child. It would help greatly, and if you needed to ever restrain her (which it sounds like you’re doing), doing it properly and being trained on how to restrain safely are really really important. Not to be alarmist, but kids die from improper restraints. I work in special education and have experience with children on the autism spectrum with severe aggression like you’re describing OP, and it’s really really important to know what you’re doing if you restrain to reduce trauma to both yourself and the child being restrained. A behavioral therapist should have the training and experience to help you with knowing when and how and how long it’s safe to restrain a child that small and young. Also, look into a developmental pediatrician to rule out autism. Autism and ADHD are often co-morbid, and many people with autism have a 1st degree relative (parent or siblings) with either autism or ADHD. Good luck OP. Hoping for better times ahead for you and your child.
Restraint and seclusion (the isolating into her room)*** Both big deals and should be last resorts for dealing with extreme behaviors…
My almost-3-y/o daughter went through the same thing as OP's and both her Early Intervention team and OT recommended a break in her room when she became violent. It's the only thing that gets through to her--if you bite/scratch/kick me after a warning, you cannot stay with me. The timeout is age appropriate, so only 2-3 minutes and then Dad or I go in to check on her. 9/10 times she's ready for a hug and talking things out calmly by then.
Nope. You bite, you go in the room. No last resort, the punishment fits the crime. Lay down the rules and back them, kids will know who is in charge. My little boy lightly smacked his mum the other day and immediately apologised and cuddled her, because he knows the adults are in charge, and the adults say no hitting.
Sounds like you like to prove to small children that you have all the power.
Yes… the point of an adult, to a child, is safety and security. That comes from your leader - the person who has “power” as you put it. Just like at school, college, university, work. Im most aspects of life, someone is “in power” as you put it, and rules are made. Rules that we all follow. So less of the attempt to twist it, perhaps you ought to think about the times breaking the rules is considered bad, and then figure out whether its a good idea to instill that into a person; sooner or later.
Its becoming a major issue that people think these are last resorts. If you bite me, as an adult, you’ll be lucky to be restrained and put in a room, chances are i’m going to go straight back at you. This is a consequence of being an adult; you will find people who will treat you the same as you treat them. Our job with children is to get them ready for the world. The world isn’t always pleasant. Treat them like there are no “harsh” consequences, and you will have children who do not know how to deal with them, and kids who have never suffered any real consequences grow up to repeat them and push unnacceptable boundaries.
She needs a proper assessment and meds. I say this with kindness. She can’t control it. It’s not fair to her. She laughs because she is so out of control. She has no idea what to do. Often mood stabilizers are used for this such as lamotragine. Get her to a doctor asap for evaluation.
A lot of people are throwing out professions, diagnoses, etc. but I honestly just feel it’s being a 3 year old girl — boys do have similar behaviour but my experience is the little women, at least mine, run hot like jet fuel when angry. My own is similar, and physically holding for timeout would work sometimes, often it would wind her up more. What has worked is locking her in her room, either with us in there or by herself after explaining why and how she can get out (stopping x behaviour). It’s hard, as they scream and cry but after a few sessions they learn. It’s a safe place with less harmful furniture to hurt themselves on. Napping would help us immensely but she refuses.
Try a heavy metal detox and limiting or eliminating dyes from her foods
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Wow what an incredibly rude way to say that. OP my youngest was like this. She drove me to tears daily between ages 2-4ish. She's 7 now and was just diagnosed with ADHD. With a LOT of consistent boundary setting and sensory input to help her regulate she's gotten a lot better. She still has anger issues but she doesn't attack us anymore (hasn't for a few years now, that stopped around 4, 4.5ish). We weren't able to get her into therapy at the worst of it due to COVID and just living in an area without easy access to care. So we implemented a lot of things at home. Visual schedule, timers, clearly set expectations with consequences set in advance. Lots of warnings for transitions...so many timers, set a timer for everything! "The Explosive Child" by Ross Green has a lot of good tips. It's not about the behavior or finding a diagnosis to explain the behavior as much as it is giving your child support for the skills they lack.
Thank you for the significantly more constructive response. Just ordered "The Explosive Child". Can you say more about the sensory input? That's what our daughter's OT is focused on with her. We have implemented some of her suggestions - could probably do a better job giving her more of the physical input, e.g. the "proprioceptive input" in the evenings. But I'm struggling with the feeling that this isn't actually going to address the behavior. Maybe we just need to stick with it longer, like you did...I feel really upset and hopeless right now.
>I feel really upset and hopeless right now. OP, I remember feeling exactly like this. I remember standing behind a baby gate holding it shut as my kid screamed and threw herself against it, trying to get to me to hurt me. Feral is exactly how I described her. Like someone above speculated I wondered if it was bipolar disorder because we have a family history and these freakouts came in waves. Weeks of calm and then she would suddenly flip a switch. I've since learned that autism and ADHD, particularly in women/girls, is often misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder. Currently in the process of figuring out if that's the case with me(diagnosed bipolar 2, then also with ADHD and autism, my doctor thinks the bipolar diagnosis might not be right given the new diagnoses). Sensory wise we provided a lot of deep pressure when she was that age. Squeezes, rolling her in a blanket and squishing her in it(we called it the burrito game), weighted blankets,etc. Swinging and jumping are also great for sensory seekers. I don't recommend a trampoline for safety reasons. But an exercise ball to bounce on maybe. Each night before bed we do "blanket swings" with all 3 of our kids. My husband and I hold a blanket like a hammock and swing them each ten times. Helps them feel more regulated and ready to calm down for bed.
That is so, so helpful - thank you. My kiddo loves swinging, the blanket swings are a great suggestion. I'll try that immediately. Good luck with your diagnosis, would not surprise me if it was wrong initially. Medical research has been appallingly ignorant of women's unique health issues. Thanks again for taking the time to write a compassionate and helpful reply. <3
Hey! It will address the behaviour in the long run. Procioceptive inputs stimulate the brain and our procioceptive ability plays a big role in emotional regulation. So these seemingly unrelated things that will definitely not be a quick fix - will work over months and years. So please continue. The comments have some great suggestions by parents with similar experiences. Good luck. Really rooting for you. As someone who works with adults on the other side of this - it gets better if you have the resources of time, care and money.
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I also worked in special ed (as a para) and now work as a preschool teacher with 3s. These COVID babies have had inherently traumatic formative years. As a sped teacher you should have a better idea of what trauma does the brain, and have way more compassion. Do better. "Wired wrong", disgusting language.
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If you're burnt out stop teaching. This certainly isn't a job you do for the money. Maybe reflect on if its actually beneficial for anyone, particularly your students, for you to be in the classroom. You aren't helping anyone with this attitude.
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What are you implying by "you aren't telling the full story"? If you are suggesting that she is being abused - no, absolutely not.
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Kindly, I think you are burnt out. You sound miserable. The kids you work with know you look down on them, as do the parents. You are also seriously projecting on op.
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This is exactly what happens with my daughter who is now five. She’s been in occupational therapy and it’s helped us to understand how to help her sensory seeking behavior but it’s so obvious that something else is going on because she just can’t control herself and she makes her 14 yr old sister cry because she will not stop hitting or biting and the more we tell her to stop the more she does it and can’t seem to stop herself. We try to hug her to us to stop her and it causes her to become hysterical. I’ve been trying to find a therapist but they tell me no one will do ADHD testing until she is six and there is a huge wait list at every place I call for therapy.
Talk to her pediatrician. She needs a full evaluation, not just ADHD.
Yes, I have talked with her, we just haven’t been able to find anyone that is available to do anything. I have referrals from her OT and her PCP ready as soon as we find somewhere. ETA: I have ADHD and a little OCD so that’s why that was the first suspicion.
Sounds neurodivergent. I have 3 ND kids and my eldest, who has PDA and ADHD, was like this at the same age. He's 8 now and much better, he takes meds for his adhd and attends a special school. If one of you has adhd the chances of an adhd and otherwise ND child is sky high. Me and my husband are both ND and the only kid we have that isn't known to be is a baby so too young to know.
Someone else commented something similar but my ten year old has sensory issues but not full blown sensory processing disorder and a few things that help when he can’t control his body (actually, I’m going to leave this but when he has gotten to the point he can’t control his body we have to ride it out a bit. These things are good ways to avoid getting to that point.) - keeping his body active. It’s almost like how you have to work a dog - enough sleep - enough food - laying on him. Or squeezing him and holding him tightly. He’ll say he doesn’t like the squeezing but after a minute or two I feel his body relax and then after he’ll admit it did feel good but he didn’t want to admit it Things that don’t actually help: - talking it out tbh
It will get better with age. My son had similar issues at 2 and at 6 has largely evened out. They’ve got big emotions in tiny bodies and they’re trying to be heard and express. I would side on make sure you always prep for things, no quick transitions, and empower her to get feelings out in acceptable ways. Don’t shame, don’t fear a brat, just be aware that she has more than she can manage and needs help with that.
If you live in Canada, you can also call Strongest Families at 1 (866) 470-7111 They’re over-the-phone and I can attest to how well their courses work. It’s completely free and you can retake the courses as many times as you need.
Have you tried the Time Out Chair?
Look up PANs / PANDAs
Parenting is so hard!! Im a huge fan of Jo Frost, she has lots of recommendations for handling toddlers
See a doctor. Sounds like my daughter, she has severe ADHD and impulse control problems. She is thriving now since I got guidelines on how to deal differently with her. It is scary and frustrating but whatever you do, don’t lose your temper during these meltdowns. Dicipline won’t help either in these cases, they don’t hear you or register anything in their nearest environment when they are having a meltdown. Just stay calm and tell her you are ready when she is. And when she calms down give her a hug and cuddles. This will make her feel more secure with time which in turn will cause less meltdowns. Her feelings are a lot bigger than she can handle.
I'd suggest expanding your team to include a play therapist and also have her evaluated (neuropsych eval). I'd consider things like language processing disorders as well. My brother presented with similarly violent outbursts around that age; it turned out he had a language processing disorder that was very much part of the issue.
fwiw, maybe read up on [SMS](https://www.prisms.org/about-sms/what-is-sms/)
You're daughter is probably autistic. Talk with a therapist who specializes in autism. Her behavior sounds to me like her having autistic fits. She gets oversimulated from situational triggers stressful situations or things that make her feel overwhelmed. Help her find a daily routine that's organized and consistent and see if that helps improve her behavior.
in fact when she lashes out it is best to give her space to express herself then wait for her to calm down and feel safe before interacting with her again.
This sounds like stress behaviour: https://www.allanarobinson.com/what-exactly-is-stress/ The OT is right, but her advice is stopping a bit short. She needs facilitation, and for you to stop talking to her. When a child is that deeply dysregulated they can’t process language and will perceive any language as an attack.