Your welcome. I highly recommend it its called ace in the holeā¦ tho it has a lot of pairings like fuuka and >! Alive in this timeline shinji!< or p3 femc with aki or ken himself with makoto. Tho the weirdest one for me is definitely the fact that yukari has makoto kids. Basically they fucked before he died and after he died yukari decided to keep em. The other problem is that it is base persona 5 only as the writter started becore persona 5 royal was out. And after already it was out he didnt want to rewrite it
I was also thinking their mothers could be sisters. But also gave me the idea that Akechi's mother had to leave her family and live through selling herself, since prostitution is the ultimate falling on hard times job
Now do Wildcard
Makoto: Mom's dead
Yu: Mom's on a year round business trip, never calls or texts. (massive neglect)
Akira: Mom has sworn him off, also never calls or texts. (massive neglect)
I dunno bro. I canāt imagine not getting at least a text from my mother for an entire year, and Iām a grown-ass man. Iād imagine it would devastating for a teenager who previously had a good relationship with their mother.
They could have added it but it wasn't needed. Probably the intent back in Japan was that they were busy providing for them coming back. I have read that apparently at least Japanese fathers are intended to be distant to their children and some anime even have children reacting badly to their fathers trying to be more buddy-buddy with their children (one was Citrus, I forgot the name of the other anime). So it seems neglectful from our side of the ocean but Japan has other standards as to what good parenting looks like
Technically not wildcard but protagonist...
Naoya: Both parents alive but dad is never home
Tatsuya: Dad in jail, distant from mom
Maya: Dad's dead, good relationship with mom
I want to see Akechi's redemption arc someday.
I know that ATLUS aren't brave enough to pull off this move, but I believe it could have been one of the best persona titles ever made.
This game could have discussed such serious topics as grief, self-loathing, self-redemtion and forgiveness and the script-writers already have the key for the start of the story -- Robin Hood persona.
Akechi deep inside has a strong sense of justice and Robin Hood is a perfect representation for it, because each and every persona is born from within one's heart and it represents a real and genuine part of someone's personality. He always wanted to be a hero, and an ally of justice, so there's a good reason to come through his own "rehabilitation", so that his story could receive a proper ending.
Iād argue the third semester was his redemption arc. Realistically he can never fully redeem himself because of the things heās done. But like Ryuji says he was fighting like his life depended on it, even though winning meant it was forfeit. Call it fighting for self interest, but he was fighting for something more than just the whims of a psychopath politician or a false god.
i really like this interpretation of the third semester because it fits his character perfectly
he knows that success should mean he dies, he knows that he has no real way of getting forgiveness other than Marukiās dream world, but he still decides to stop him because his values intrinsically point him to the wrongness of the false reality, even if itās in the terms of his own justice
itās even shown earlier when he meets Joker to discuss whatās happening, he almost seems angry that heās been let off so easily instead of actually being punished
I feel like it would be in poor taste to give him a redemption arc after it's been established that he abused his power to kill numerous people without remorse. Heās an interesting character, don't get me wrong, but I think the "we can fix him" ship sailed the moment it's revealed he's responsible for that metro accident at the beginning of the game, among many other crimes.
He is a criminal but that doesn't mean it should be the end of his life, especially as a misguided teenager. It would actually be better if he lived and tried to do amends by any means possible instead of just dying as per how some of his haters would have it
>!I wouldn't say it would be in poor taste because the game already treats him differently than the other antagonists. I don't think the phantom thieves would be against him getting rehabilitated rather than incarcerated if he isn't dead, since the engine room is basically a "we can fix him" moment. That isn't to say they like him but he does have strong potential for a redemption if he ever manages to escape the Atlus dungeon!<
Yeah exactly. >!His final persona is as close as it gets to Batman. Having him work as a vigilante while evading the law would be a perfect continuation of his story. From false hero, to villain, to antihero.!<
People can do absolutely horrific shit and still have a redemption arc. That's the reason WHY redemption arcs are so interesting.
The greater the crimes, the more interesting it is. As we get to see if the writers have the skill to get us past them.
He'd need to undergo years of therapy, then serve out his sentences or have his heart stolen, in which case he would still want to go to prison. It's just not a character suited to his own game without fundamentally changing what makes a Persona game what it is.
He canāt have his heart stolen. Persona users donāt have palaces. (This bit is me talking out my ass but I think itās because they have already accepted the negative aspects of their personality which became their persona, like what happens in P4, well non confirmed probably wrong bit ends here). He doesnāt feel remorse, unless thatās another aspect of the wild card that wasnāt shown.
Plus, he was basically a hit man. Now an argument can be made that Shido manipulated him, which he absolutely did, but I donāt think itās enough to get him off the hook for multiple murders. He caused the metro accident, he killed Okumura and ākilledā Joker. Iām not a legal expert, but I think heād be jailed for life, pretty much.
Sorry, I donāt mean to argue. Definitely didnāt mean to be rude, just putting my two cents here.
I don't know how japan handles jailing people for murders they do if they're considered not an adult, and i think they're not considered adults jntil 20 i think. So legally i think he's still a child
i think the fact that he's been a hitman for shido since he was legally a child may make it lighter , genuinely idk tho, but he was young when shido started tellinh him to kill people if wakaba is anything
Two years, but I understand your point. The poor guy had a messed up childhood and then Shido cooked his brains. Yet at the end of the day, he was the one who pulled the trigger. Iām conflicted on how I feel about him. On one hand, he treats the PT like garbage and ākillsā Joker along with others. He was the one responsible for the PTs being almost framed for murder.
Yeah, I feel like you can acknowledge that he had a messed up childhood and sympathize with that while also still holding him accountable for the decisions he willingly made. He voluntarily went to Shido and helped him in his conquest of world domination, all for the sake of his own selfish and petty goal of revenge. No amount of childhood trauma warrants someone to cause trauma to other people as well. I know people claim that they're not excusing Akechi for what he did but people sure do go to lengths to find ways to minimize the responsibility that had and the amount of accountability that he should be held against.
Unless they change a lot from his story, I don't really see how he could truly be redeemed without the message sounding hypocritical to the rest of P5's story. I feel like the "redemption" that he got from P5/P5R was enough in terms of sacrificing himself for the better good and being granted his own personal freedom.
I may be reading his character wrong but how exactly does he have a strong sense of justice when his actions say otherwise? He had a chance to be a hero even in his own story but took the most stupid and selfish path when there was no pressure for him to do that. Maybe like if it were shown how hard it was for him to take lives of other people or how conflicted he was of going against the PT, it would send a different message but that wasn't the case. Overall, I do get what they were trying to do with his character but I feel like it could've been portrayed and executed it a little differently to make it more cohesive.
Well, I'll try to answer each question consequently.
First of all, if you dig deeper into the P5 side content like anime and manga or cut-materials, you'd see that he wasn't just a liar in detective disguised and he actually managed to uncover some criminal cases, and the most interesting quest is shown in cut materials to Persona 5 Royal, where he uncovers the complex convoluted conflict with blackmail, where both sides were criminals. Even though, in the third semester he doesn't work for the police, he chose to follow through with this to bring his own justice . More than that in Persona 5 OVA "Proof of Justice" we can dive deeper into Akechi's mentality and see, that since early childhood he always wanted to be a hero, but he did not have a reliable shoulder by his side, so that he couldn't drown into his darkness.
And in the certain moment of this OVA Akechi momentarily shows regret for the future outcome, where he would have to take down Ren, which says that he isn't a heartless remorseless killer, but he's out of options because he has already gone too far with his plan prior to meeting Ren.
Of course there's no media that depicts Akechi's early days as Shido's assassin and that is the biggest lost opportunity regarding Akechi's story, and a spin-off game could explore this part of his life at least in the format of flashbacks.
I'd be glad to elaborate on Akechi's story and character further, if only you have a wish of course.
I'd admit I haven't dug that deep in terms of seeing the anime/OVA and any additional content outside of the games so I don't have that perspective but I certainly appreciate that insight that you provided. I suppose that does showcase how he has some sense of justice.
I feel like it's not so much I question Akechi's actual ability and skills, and I also don't even think he's a heartless killer. The biggest thing for me is that his motivation and actions made little sense and sometimes even contradict some aspects of his character. For example, I can see why Akechi might desire to be acknowledged by his father especially since he was young and had already lost his mother. I can also see why he desires to seek revenge on his father considering how he ruined his life at such an early. But to combine those motivations? I feel like that's where it became messy for me. They should've just stuck to a certain path instead of trying to do a lot of things at once with his character.
If you can elaborate more on his character and even correct some things that I may be wrong about, I'd certainly welcome that.
But yeah, in terms of further trying to redeem Akechi, I feel it would just honestly defeat the purpose P5's story and contradict the presidence that was established. Any other villains were judged accordingly for their crimes, why should Akechi get special treatment?
Well the explanation for Akechi's actual actions is pretty simple, if I'm right .
Akechi wanted to make Shido feel betrayed, because it is essentially what Akechi feels, if we talk about relationship with his father.
So, in order to make him feel betrayed he'd have to build a relationship where Shido trusts him, thus he can get parental acknowledgement he always wanted to have, just as vengeance he was always seeking for.
As for the plot about his redemption, he could be "free on special terms" during the game's story, however in the end of story finishes he'd have to serve his sentence in prison, maybe on lightened condition after the end of the game's plot, and just as Adachi he'd have to get at least a visit from someone who have forged a bond with him, so that the lessons he's learned throughout the game wouldn't be forgotten.
TL;DR game is sympathetic to rehab, people have greatly differing opinions on what to do with criminals, and greatly differing opinions on how much of Akechiās whole hitman thing was because he actually wanted to kill vs blackmail from Shido
The game itself seems to be in favor of his redemption, e.g. when all the phantom thieves invite him to join the team after the boat fight. And itās not necessarily bc theyāre putting up a show; Yusuke later says over text that he may have ended up like Akechi if he didnāt find the PTs, implying he probably genuinely sympathized with and wanted to team with Akechi
If you assume the person who looks like him at end of third semester is actually him, itās implied heās voluntarily turning himself in as well, which is another form of rehabilitation
Ultimately though I think whether people think Akechi can and should be rehabbed depends on a number of their own beliefs. Do you believe jail or other punishments for criminals should be rehabilitive or purely punitive? How much of the whole hitman for Shido thing was because of blackmail vs his own personal volition?
Argument for blackmail: if Akechi at any point tried to stop Shido and left any evidence behind, such as in the form of Shidoās name in Akechiās nav history, or if he tried to run away, the entirety of Shidoās men would be after him. Itās unclear if he has a viable path to survival and rejoining society as a normal person in this case
Argument for Akechiās personal choice: He could have barged through Shidoās palace right at the beginning, or at least after he killed his first victim (itās unclear whether he knew before then if offing a shadow would kill the person). But he doesnāt. He demonstrates no remorse for many kills, and itās not like survival is impossible if he outright turns on Shido. He could theoretically hide in Mementos for a really long time, depending on food and water availability inside Mementos.
Now that I typed this I realized that perhaps more pressing than food and water in Mementos (he could just buy 200 24-packs of water and tow it into Mementos over time) is his ability to charge his phone.
What happens if your phone dies while using the Nav. Are you stuck in the Metaverse forever. Are you rudely yeeted back into reality. In peopleās cognition, phones drain battery so I doubt the phone would stop draining in the Metaverse.
I guess he could also buy 600 battery packs and tow that into mementos too. But thereās no way Shidoās men wouldnāt catch all these highly suspicious transactions
because he's the biggest victim of this "shit adults" society? dude was doomed from the beginning just for the fact of been alone. a pain that nobody except joker maybe can fully understand
Idk about you, but "sad backstory uwu" stops being a justification when that person murders multiple people without regret.
At what point is the individual responsible for their actions, and not their past? One murder? Two?
Redemption isn't the same as forgiveness or justice. If Akechi didn't commit any crimes or wrongdoings against people who didn't fully deserve it, there'd be nothing to redeem in the first place.
Akechi could be redeemed if he genuinely realised the error of his ways and the unnecessary harm he caused people, sought to make amends and correct the wrongdoings that could be corrected to the best of his ability, and turned himself in to face legal consequences. Redemption isn't the same as a get out of jail free card, he could be morally redeemed but still go to jail and face legal justice, and it wouldn't mean that his surviving victims are obligated to forgive him if they don't want to.
The thing is, Akechi already got his redemption during P5/P5R. He realized the error of his ways and turned a new leaf by helping the PT's cause. He even got the freedom that he wished for even if that was at the cost of his own life. However, I feel like people/Akechi fans actually want more. I don't think they actually want him to just rot in jail and feel like he should be afforded an opportunity to make amends to eventually "make up" for what he did to the point where he'd get to spend more time with Joker and maybe even the other PT to develop bonds that he wasn't able to before.
Being a victim of shitty adults does not give him a pass to murder people, especially those who had nothing to do with the sufferring he went through. Akechi had a choice to enact direct revenge on Shido but instead chose to involve killing and harming others all for the sake of his selfish and stupid goal. By making Shido more powerful, Akechi caused suffering for people like Yusuke, Futaba, Haru, Joker, and many others.
I played the game. You can sympathize with Akechi without trying so hard to minimize what he did. He could've destroyed Shido any other way that didn't have to involve innocent and unrelated people.
There wouldn't be anything to redeem if Akechi only hurt Shido and no one else. Being a redeemed villain necessitates being a villain in the first place.
I feel like this is unrelated to this specific thread. What I'm mentioning above is about Akechi's selfishness because someone is trying to use his hard life to excuse his actions. It was not necessarily about his character as a villain because I know he's a villain.
very good surface level character analysis.
akechi was 14 when he killed for the first time. 14. of course, by then he was already in too deep. he knew too much for shido to just let him live a normal life past that. whether he knew at the time or not that killing someones shadow meant killing the person themselves is unclear, this was all pretty new to him at the time. i doubt he understood much. even beyond that, we know yaldabaoth had been stringing him along down this path from the beginning.
he had no support system. no friends, no family. he grew up in the foster care system, something notorious for leaving people completely broken with nowhere to turn to. ive known a few people who had to go through foster care, and it really fucks you up for the rest of your life even if you do get taken in by a loving family eventually. theres a lot going on in his heart, that much is pretty obvious. hes desperate for any sort of approval or positive attention, even if it makes him feel sick inside. hes always wearing a mask to protect himself, the only person he ever lets see beyond his false persona is joker. at a certain point, he probably lost who he really was after spending all his time pretending to be someone hes not. its not a healthy way to go about your life, at the end of the day you find yourself questioning if you even have a personality at all beyond just projecting what you think people want from you. its extremely distressing and exhausting.
akechi obviously still has some good in him left. he sacrificed his life to save joker and the phantom thieves in that palace, knowing he'd probably die, but he cared enough about his only friend to let it happen. its really heartbreaking. he does all that just to be brought back by maruki, given a chance he thinks he doesnt deserve. his goal of bringing shido down has already been fulfilled, he really has nothing left beyond that and he certainly doesnt care about himself enough to continue living for his own sake.
hes spent his whole life with someone else manipulating him. yaldabaoth, shido, maruki. itd be interesting to see how hed continue on without outside forces like that, to live a life truly his own the way he never had a chance to in the game.
in the end, his last wish wasnt for more violence. it was to have more time with joker, the only person who made him feel normal.
A lot of people believe (whether they're aware of this or not) that there are no good or bad actions, only good or bad people. They see a good person who did bad things, so to them redemption makes sense.
The best they can do to redeem him is what we already got or in the case an arena game comes out giving him the adachi treatment since he's already almost the same character type (sad "I'm a victim of the sistem" character that the protagonist feel bad for despite the fact this character murdered a bunch of people and has 0 regrets about it) and just showing that he infact did turn himself in having his heart symbolically stolen by the phantoms.
I suppose he might face a story where he is forced to work for the police to uncover "another epidemic of mental shutdowns ", and such a course of the story allows the return of the old characters just as the appearance of the new ones.
Akechi would have to face a total distrust from everyone, because people who are working with him know who he is and what he has done. So he'd have to clear his name and start from the total bottom in society once again forging bonds with new people in his life and mending relationship with the members of the Phantom Thieves, who was hurt by his action ( Futaba, Haru and I'd include Ren, because he'd be a good teacher for him).
I get the angle of puting him to work instead of letting him rot in prison I honestly think that's a better use for him than what adachi got...Wich was rotting in prison. Hell if arena rules apply we can get an older now chief of police yu nurakami as he was interested in following that path, and he migh have the persona strike force. but I don't think he should be forgiven by anyone, he didn't just kill his targets, he hurt and possibly killed a lot of people, there was colateral damage to those train crashes and car crashes, he regretted none of that, you can't mend relationships you didn't care about in the first place, the best he should get is a "Yea we can work with him, he's usefull" but the years of futabas life or harus life are never coming back, neither are the people he killed,little timi-chan at the subway probably wanted to be a hero two but akeshi tickled the conductors soul and now timi is wheel chair bound(this part is /hj) forgiveness and redeption are not naratively the same thing and you can have one and not the other.
I thought this was a time lapse of Akechi growing up. I was really confused by the first part being a little girl (someone's headcanon?, something I missed?).
Yes I have only played Persona 5, yes Persona 3: Reload is on my todo list.
I wouldn't say that they don't understand, it's the exact opposite really. A big point with his character is that he experienced *all* the traumatic shit the phantom thieves experienced, just combined in a single person and without a support network in the form of Joker (or anyone else) until it was far too late.
Imo that's also why redemption would actually be very interesting for him. He can't revive the people he killed, but he *can* atone for what he did, for example by stopping anyone else trying to use their powers like he did. Maybe he'd join the Shadow Operatives (after all, atonement and prevention of further bad stuff is kinda their thing), after all he is a good fighter and a genuinely pretty good detective according to the supplementary stuff (which would also allow him to stay out of the spotlight (and him meeting the pink ranger would be way too funny lol)).
I THOUGHT THIS WAS AKECHI'S LIFE, LIKE HIS FATHER WANTED HIM TO BE GIRL OR SOMETHING LMAOOOOO (i am not done with the game yet, i'm in Futaba's palace)
How is Ken Justice I'm so confused lol, he's not even a social Link. And if we're going with strictly party members, why is Nanako there? Am I missing something?
Source: https://twitter.com/gimmie20dollas/status/1789518188100653553?t=R5BjGEA_PY_K44-468QwFg&s=19 Happy Mother's Day everyone š«
It took me a second to understand this for some reason. Now Iām sobbing.
As embarrassing as it is, I still don't get it.
All of them have dead moms.
I'm a fucking idiot, I thought this girl grew up and became Akechi.
That reminds me of an fanfic in which ken becomes phantom thief and is >! Akechi cousin !<
Bro hided a fanfiction spoiler, big respect. š
Your welcome. I highly recommend it its called ace in the holeā¦ tho it has a lot of pairings like fuuka and >! Alive in this timeline shinji!< or p3 femc with aki or ken himself with makoto. Tho the weirdest one for me is definitely the fact that yukari has makoto kids. Basically they fucked before he died and after he died yukari decided to keep em. The other problem is that it is base persona 5 only as the writter started becore persona 5 royal was out. And after already it was out he didnt want to rewrite it
i thought it was akechi crossdressing to be closer to his mom
Relatable
My condolences.
Irl Something I have in common with all of them
they just like me fr š„²
Being Justice Arcana is suffering I would say that Akechi is basically Ken if he had grown up without a good guiding force in his life
Pretty much
Some think that they are brothers
Them having the same mom I'd doubt. But Shido being both their dads is definitely a possibility considering the amount of women Shido has been with
Even for speculation, it's pretty unlikely. Supposedly Akechi resembles his mother. Which makes sense given how pretty he is
Maybe their mothers were sisters?
I was also thinking their mothers could be sisters. But also gave me the idea that Akechi's mother had to leave her family and live through selling herself, since prostitution is the ultimate falling on hard times job
But both of em have very similar hair no?
They would have different mothers since the theory is saying that they share a father. And actually, Akechi doesn't look like Shido at all
True. And ken does not look like him either
Shido being Kens dad has infinite possibilities
They were born the same year.
https://preview.redd.it/ne594r1u020d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41a6aafe2dd56602ba5f7f321eb187cd2e54f516 The artist also said this:
Being Justice is suffering.
I, deadass, thought its ken growth, as in, he crossdress when child, looking normal ken, and adult ken š
New head canon that Akechi is trans masc.
Nanako was with us all along
Brown hair mfs associated with justice trying not to lose their mother challenge (impossible)
Kid named Chihiro Fushimi:
The sole exception The one who actually defeated the allegations and audibly, loudly said: āItās not Chihirover.ā
Also Brown/Hidehiko from P1 but then again the remake could reveal that his class clown attitude is actually how he copes with losing his mother.
In The Answer DLC, Chihiro joins the party and reveals she's afraid of men because her mother was killed by a man once
Now do Wildcard Makoto: Mom's dead Yu: Mom's on a year round business trip, never calls or texts. (massive neglect) Akira: Mom has sworn him off, also never calls or texts. (massive neglect)
Come on, they are not really neglectful, it's just not necessary for the story
I dunno bro. I canāt imagine not getting at least a text from my mother for an entire year, and Iām a grown-ass man. Iād imagine it would devastating for a teenager who previously had a good relationship with their mother.
They could have added it but it wasn't needed. Probably the intent back in Japan was that they were busy providing for them coming back. I have read that apparently at least Japanese fathers are intended to be distant to their children and some anime even have children reacting badly to their fathers trying to be more buddy-buddy with their children (one was Citrus, I forgot the name of the other anime). So it seems neglectful from our side of the ocean but Japan has other standards as to what good parenting looks like
For all we know Shido could have pulled strings for the trial so that Joker's parents were not allowed to contact him in any way.
That could be the case, but why would he go out of his way to have it happen this way?
Maybe just to spite Joker out of pettiness.
or to prove he could
Technically not wildcard but protagonist... Naoya: Both parents alive but dad is never home Tatsuya: Dad in jail, distant from mom Maya: Dad's dead, good relationship with mom
https://preview.redd.it/2s72ozudn40d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbf9e7eaf44df8214e03104923be3fae0db4732a
I want to see Akechi's redemption arc someday. I know that ATLUS aren't brave enough to pull off this move, but I believe it could have been one of the best persona titles ever made. This game could have discussed such serious topics as grief, self-loathing, self-redemtion and forgiveness and the script-writers already have the key for the start of the story -- Robin Hood persona. Akechi deep inside has a strong sense of justice and Robin Hood is a perfect representation for it, because each and every persona is born from within one's heart and it represents a real and genuine part of someone's personality. He always wanted to be a hero, and an ally of justice, so there's a good reason to come through his own "rehabilitation", so that his story could receive a proper ending.
Iād argue the third semester was his redemption arc. Realistically he can never fully redeem himself because of the things heās done. But like Ryuji says he was fighting like his life depended on it, even though winning meant it was forfeit. Call it fighting for self interest, but he was fighting for something more than just the whims of a psychopath politician or a false god.
i really like this interpretation of the third semester because it fits his character perfectly he knows that success should mean he dies, he knows that he has no real way of getting forgiveness other than Marukiās dream world, but he still decides to stop him because his values intrinsically point him to the wrongness of the false reality, even if itās in the terms of his own justice itās even shown earlier when he meets Joker to discuss whatās happening, he almost seems angry that heās been let off so easily instead of actually being punished
Ren : "I can fix him."
I feel like it would be in poor taste to give him a redemption arc after it's been established that he abused his power to kill numerous people without remorse. Heās an interesting character, don't get me wrong, but I think the "we can fix him" ship sailed the moment it's revealed he's responsible for that metro accident at the beginning of the game, among many other crimes.
He is a criminal but that doesn't mean it should be the end of his life, especially as a misguided teenager. It would actually be better if he lived and tried to do amends by any means possible instead of just dying as per how some of his haters would have it
>!I wouldn't say it would be in poor taste because the game already treats him differently than the other antagonists. I don't think the phantom thieves would be against him getting rehabilitated rather than incarcerated if he isn't dead, since the engine room is basically a "we can fix him" moment. That isn't to say they like him but he does have strong potential for a redemption if he ever manages to escape the Atlus dungeon!<
I think it would be interesting to have Akechi working to stop an antagonist in a p5 fighting game (If we get one) while also running from Naoto.
Yeah exactly. >!His final persona is as close as it gets to Batman. Having him work as a vigilante while evading the law would be a perfect continuation of his story. From false hero, to villain, to antihero.!<
People can do absolutely horrific shit and still have a redemption arc. That's the reason WHY redemption arcs are so interesting. The greater the crimes, the more interesting it is. As we get to see if the writers have the skill to get us past them.
He'd need to undergo years of therapy, then serve out his sentences or have his heart stolen, in which case he would still want to go to prison. It's just not a character suited to his own game without fundamentally changing what makes a Persona game what it is.
He canāt have his heart stolen. Persona users donāt have palaces. (This bit is me talking out my ass but I think itās because they have already accepted the negative aspects of their personality which became their persona, like what happens in P4, well non confirmed probably wrong bit ends here). He doesnāt feel remorse, unless thatās another aspect of the wild card that wasnāt shown. Plus, he was basically a hit man. Now an argument can be made that Shido manipulated him, which he absolutely did, but I donāt think itās enough to get him off the hook for multiple murders. He caused the metro accident, he killed Okumura and ākilledā Joker. Iām not a legal expert, but I think heād be jailed for life, pretty much. Sorry, I donāt mean to argue. Definitely didnāt mean to be rude, just putting my two cents here.
I don't know how japan handles jailing people for murders they do if they're considered not an adult, and i think they're not considered adults jntil 20 i think. So legally i think he's still a child
Still murderās gotta be pretty hefty. Itās not like shoplifting, you know.
i think the fact that he's been a hitman for shido since he was legally a child may make it lighter , genuinely idk tho, but he was young when shido started tellinh him to kill people if wakaba is anything
Two years, but I understand your point. The poor guy had a messed up childhood and then Shido cooked his brains. Yet at the end of the day, he was the one who pulled the trigger. Iām conflicted on how I feel about him. On one hand, he treats the PT like garbage and ākillsā Joker along with others. He was the one responsible for the PTs being almost framed for murder.
Yeah, I feel like you can acknowledge that he had a messed up childhood and sympathize with that while also still holding him accountable for the decisions he willingly made. He voluntarily went to Shido and helped him in his conquest of world domination, all for the sake of his own selfish and petty goal of revenge. No amount of childhood trauma warrants someone to cause trauma to other people as well. I know people claim that they're not excusing Akechi for what he did but people sure do go to lengths to find ways to minimize the responsibility that had and the amount of accountability that he should be held against.
Unless they change a lot from his story, I don't really see how he could truly be redeemed without the message sounding hypocritical to the rest of P5's story. I feel like the "redemption" that he got from P5/P5R was enough in terms of sacrificing himself for the better good and being granted his own personal freedom. I may be reading his character wrong but how exactly does he have a strong sense of justice when his actions say otherwise? He had a chance to be a hero even in his own story but took the most stupid and selfish path when there was no pressure for him to do that. Maybe like if it were shown how hard it was for him to take lives of other people or how conflicted he was of going against the PT, it would send a different message but that wasn't the case. Overall, I do get what they were trying to do with his character but I feel like it could've been portrayed and executed it a little differently to make it more cohesive.
Well, I'll try to answer each question consequently. First of all, if you dig deeper into the P5 side content like anime and manga or cut-materials, you'd see that he wasn't just a liar in detective disguised and he actually managed to uncover some criminal cases, and the most interesting quest is shown in cut materials to Persona 5 Royal, where he uncovers the complex convoluted conflict with blackmail, where both sides were criminals. Even though, in the third semester he doesn't work for the police, he chose to follow through with this to bring his own justice . More than that in Persona 5 OVA "Proof of Justice" we can dive deeper into Akechi's mentality and see, that since early childhood he always wanted to be a hero, but he did not have a reliable shoulder by his side, so that he couldn't drown into his darkness. And in the certain moment of this OVA Akechi momentarily shows regret for the future outcome, where he would have to take down Ren, which says that he isn't a heartless remorseless killer, but he's out of options because he has already gone too far with his plan prior to meeting Ren. Of course there's no media that depicts Akechi's early days as Shido's assassin and that is the biggest lost opportunity regarding Akechi's story, and a spin-off game could explore this part of his life at least in the format of flashbacks. I'd be glad to elaborate on Akechi's story and character further, if only you have a wish of course.
I'd admit I haven't dug that deep in terms of seeing the anime/OVA and any additional content outside of the games so I don't have that perspective but I certainly appreciate that insight that you provided. I suppose that does showcase how he has some sense of justice. I feel like it's not so much I question Akechi's actual ability and skills, and I also don't even think he's a heartless killer. The biggest thing for me is that his motivation and actions made little sense and sometimes even contradict some aspects of his character. For example, I can see why Akechi might desire to be acknowledged by his father especially since he was young and had already lost his mother. I can also see why he desires to seek revenge on his father considering how he ruined his life at such an early. But to combine those motivations? I feel like that's where it became messy for me. They should've just stuck to a certain path instead of trying to do a lot of things at once with his character. If you can elaborate more on his character and even correct some things that I may be wrong about, I'd certainly welcome that. But yeah, in terms of further trying to redeem Akechi, I feel it would just honestly defeat the purpose P5's story and contradict the presidence that was established. Any other villains were judged accordingly for their crimes, why should Akechi get special treatment?
Well the explanation for Akechi's actual actions is pretty simple, if I'm right . Akechi wanted to make Shido feel betrayed, because it is essentially what Akechi feels, if we talk about relationship with his father. So, in order to make him feel betrayed he'd have to build a relationship where Shido trusts him, thus he can get parental acknowledgement he always wanted to have, just as vengeance he was always seeking for. As for the plot about his redemption, he could be "free on special terms" during the game's story, however in the end of story finishes he'd have to serve his sentence in prison, maybe on lightened condition after the end of the game's plot, and just as Adachi he'd have to get at least a visit from someone who have forged a bond with him, so that the lessons he's learned throughout the game wouldn't be forgotten.
Why are people so obsessed with redeeming him. He's a murdering psychopath who selfishly abused his power to fulfill his own goal. Fuck him
TL;DR game is sympathetic to rehab, people have greatly differing opinions on what to do with criminals, and greatly differing opinions on how much of Akechiās whole hitman thing was because he actually wanted to kill vs blackmail from Shido The game itself seems to be in favor of his redemption, e.g. when all the phantom thieves invite him to join the team after the boat fight. And itās not necessarily bc theyāre putting up a show; Yusuke later says over text that he may have ended up like Akechi if he didnāt find the PTs, implying he probably genuinely sympathized with and wanted to team with Akechi If you assume the person who looks like him at end of third semester is actually him, itās implied heās voluntarily turning himself in as well, which is another form of rehabilitation Ultimately though I think whether people think Akechi can and should be rehabbed depends on a number of their own beliefs. Do you believe jail or other punishments for criminals should be rehabilitive or purely punitive? How much of the whole hitman for Shido thing was because of blackmail vs his own personal volition? Argument for blackmail: if Akechi at any point tried to stop Shido and left any evidence behind, such as in the form of Shidoās name in Akechiās nav history, or if he tried to run away, the entirety of Shidoās men would be after him. Itās unclear if he has a viable path to survival and rejoining society as a normal person in this case Argument for Akechiās personal choice: He could have barged through Shidoās palace right at the beginning, or at least after he killed his first victim (itās unclear whether he knew before then if offing a shadow would kill the person). But he doesnāt. He demonstrates no remorse for many kills, and itās not like survival is impossible if he outright turns on Shido. He could theoretically hide in Mementos for a really long time, depending on food and water availability inside Mementos.
Now that I typed this I realized that perhaps more pressing than food and water in Mementos (he could just buy 200 24-packs of water and tow it into Mementos over time) is his ability to charge his phone. What happens if your phone dies while using the Nav. Are you stuck in the Metaverse forever. Are you rudely yeeted back into reality. In peopleās cognition, phones drain battery so I doubt the phone would stop draining in the Metaverse. I guess he could also buy 600 battery packs and tow that into mementos too. But thereās no way Shidoās men wouldnāt catch all these highly suspicious transactions
because he's the biggest victim of this "shit adults" society? dude was doomed from the beginning just for the fact of been alone. a pain that nobody except joker maybe can fully understand
Idk about you, but "sad backstory uwu" stops being a justification when that person murders multiple people without regret. At what point is the individual responsible for their actions, and not their past? One murder? Two?
Redemption isn't the same as forgiveness or justice. If Akechi didn't commit any crimes or wrongdoings against people who didn't fully deserve it, there'd be nothing to redeem in the first place. Akechi could be redeemed if he genuinely realised the error of his ways and the unnecessary harm he caused people, sought to make amends and correct the wrongdoings that could be corrected to the best of his ability, and turned himself in to face legal consequences. Redemption isn't the same as a get out of jail free card, he could be morally redeemed but still go to jail and face legal justice, and it wouldn't mean that his surviving victims are obligated to forgive him if they don't want to.
The thing is, Akechi already got his redemption during P5/P5R. He realized the error of his ways and turned a new leaf by helping the PT's cause. He even got the freedom that he wished for even if that was at the cost of his own life. However, I feel like people/Akechi fans actually want more. I don't think they actually want him to just rot in jail and feel like he should be afforded an opportunity to make amends to eventually "make up" for what he did to the point where he'd get to spend more time with Joker and maybe even the other PT to develop bonds that he wasn't able to before.
Being a victim of shitty adults does not give him a pass to murder people, especially those who had nothing to do with the sufferring he went through. Akechi had a choice to enact direct revenge on Shido but instead chose to involve killing and harming others all for the sake of his selfish and stupid goal. By making Shido more powerful, Akechi caused suffering for people like Yusuke, Futaba, Haru, Joker, and many others.
dude just play the game for akechi a "direct revenge" wasnt enought he need destroy everything shido build
I played the game. You can sympathize with Akechi without trying so hard to minimize what he did. He could've destroyed Shido any other way that didn't have to involve innocent and unrelated people.
There wouldn't be anything to redeem if Akechi only hurt Shido and no one else. Being a redeemed villain necessitates being a villain in the first place.
I feel like this is unrelated to this specific thread. What I'm mentioning above is about Akechi's selfishness because someone is trying to use his hard life to excuse his actions. It was not necessarily about his character as a villain because I know he's a villain.
like what? its really easy said that when you're looking from outside
Like he could've just destroyed Shido without having to help him first? His pettiness cost innocent lives.
But he is sad boy
did we play the same game? the fuck are you on about
He willingly killed people to gain Shido's trust and eventually kill him as well as revenge.
very good surface level character analysis. akechi was 14 when he killed for the first time. 14. of course, by then he was already in too deep. he knew too much for shido to just let him live a normal life past that. whether he knew at the time or not that killing someones shadow meant killing the person themselves is unclear, this was all pretty new to him at the time. i doubt he understood much. even beyond that, we know yaldabaoth had been stringing him along down this path from the beginning. he had no support system. no friends, no family. he grew up in the foster care system, something notorious for leaving people completely broken with nowhere to turn to. ive known a few people who had to go through foster care, and it really fucks you up for the rest of your life even if you do get taken in by a loving family eventually. theres a lot going on in his heart, that much is pretty obvious. hes desperate for any sort of approval or positive attention, even if it makes him feel sick inside. hes always wearing a mask to protect himself, the only person he ever lets see beyond his false persona is joker. at a certain point, he probably lost who he really was after spending all his time pretending to be someone hes not. its not a healthy way to go about your life, at the end of the day you find yourself questioning if you even have a personality at all beyond just projecting what you think people want from you. its extremely distressing and exhausting. akechi obviously still has some good in him left. he sacrificed his life to save joker and the phantom thieves in that palace, knowing he'd probably die, but he cared enough about his only friend to let it happen. its really heartbreaking. he does all that just to be brought back by maruki, given a chance he thinks he doesnt deserve. his goal of bringing shido down has already been fulfilled, he really has nothing left beyond that and he certainly doesnt care about himself enough to continue living for his own sake. hes spent his whole life with someone else manipulating him. yaldabaoth, shido, maruki. itd be interesting to see how hed continue on without outside forces like that, to live a life truly his own the way he never had a chance to in the game. in the end, his last wish wasnt for more violence. it was to have more time with joker, the only person who made him feel normal.
A lot of people believe (whether they're aware of this or not) that there are no good or bad actions, only good or bad people. They see a good person who did bad things, so to them redemption makes sense.
Glad Iām not the only one who dislikes Akechi.
The best they can do to redeem him is what we already got or in the case an arena game comes out giving him the adachi treatment since he's already almost the same character type (sad "I'm a victim of the sistem" character that the protagonist feel bad for despite the fact this character murdered a bunch of people and has 0 regrets about it) and just showing that he infact did turn himself in having his heart symbolically stolen by the phantoms.
I suppose he might face a story where he is forced to work for the police to uncover "another epidemic of mental shutdowns ", and such a course of the story allows the return of the old characters just as the appearance of the new ones. Akechi would have to face a total distrust from everyone, because people who are working with him know who he is and what he has done. So he'd have to clear his name and start from the total bottom in society once again forging bonds with new people in his life and mending relationship with the members of the Phantom Thieves, who was hurt by his action ( Futaba, Haru and I'd include Ren, because he'd be a good teacher for him).
I get the angle of puting him to work instead of letting him rot in prison I honestly think that's a better use for him than what adachi got...Wich was rotting in prison. Hell if arena rules apply we can get an older now chief of police yu nurakami as he was interested in following that path, and he migh have the persona strike force. but I don't think he should be forgiven by anyone, he didn't just kill his targets, he hurt and possibly killed a lot of people, there was colateral damage to those train crashes and car crashes, he regretted none of that, you can't mend relationships you didn't care about in the first place, the best he should get is a "Yea we can work with him, he's usefull" but the years of futabas life or harus life are never coming back, neither are the people he killed,little timi-chan at the subway probably wanted to be a hero two but akeshi tickled the conductors soul and now timi is wheel chair bound(this part is /hj) forgiveness and redeption are not naratively the same thing and you can have one and not the other.
I thought this was a time lapse of Akechi growing up. I was really confused by the first part being a little girl (someone's headcanon?, something I missed?). Yes I have only played Persona 5, yes Persona 3: Reload is on my todo list.
Yes your right akechi is transgender
nanako from persona 4, ken from persona 3
Didn't wanted to cry today š
Meanwhile, Chihiro: Y'all hear sum'?
Chihiro from P3 has mother issues?
That's honestly really sad ngl.
Meanwhile Chihiro
"Skill issue"
the guy that suffer the most in p5 franchise. the type of pain that PT will never understand
I wouldn't say that they don't understand, it's the exact opposite really. A big point with his character is that he experienced *all* the traumatic shit the phantom thieves experienced, just combined in a single person and without a support network in the form of Joker (or anyone else) until it was far too late. Imo that's also why redemption would actually be very interesting for him. He can't revive the people he killed, but he *can* atone for what he did, for example by stopping anyone else trying to use their powers like he did. Maybe he'd join the Shadow Operatives (after all, atonement and prevention of further bad stuff is kinda their thing), after all he is a good fighter and a genuinely pretty good detective according to the supplementary stuff (which would also allow him to stay out of the spotlight (and him meeting the pink ranger would be way too funny lol)).
I want to frame this comment on my wall. They understand him too well, to the point of discomfort.
that's why i said they cant really understand it all PT only live a little part of the shit akechi did they dont have any right to said that
I thought for a sec that it was Akechi in different stages of his life because of the hair color, so I thought a joke/meme
Oh, thats an unfortunate coincidenceā¦
I will not suffer you ignoring Chihiro like this.
I can relate, sadly š
I THOUGHT THIS WAS AKECHI'S LIFE, LIKE HIS FATHER WANTED HIM TO BE GIRL OR SOMETHING LMAOOOOO (i am not done with the game yet, i'm in Futaba's palace)
What would they say to each other if they actually had a serious conversation?
How is Ken Justice I'm so confused lol, he's not even a social Link. And if we're going with strictly party members, why is Nanako there? Am I missing something?
Ken is Justice in P3P for FeMc
Uh, so is Chihiro just not there if you play as FeMc?
She's still present when attending student council. You just can't hang out with her specifically.