>In 1990...
>
>Core Utilities Expenses (phone+hydro+cable+gas): $170 (352)
Sounds like they're paying the same amount as me for all these things...so clearly it was just as bad or worse back then...oh wait!...you said they were living in a 2500sqft single family home on a mortgage thats *in todays dollars* is half of what I'm paying in rent and I'm living in a 400sqft studio apartment...
What utilities are you talking about? Electricity for example is based on usage. Size of the home is irrelevant, same for things like Internet where the cost is standard regardless of home size.
>you’re paying for all this other random shit like “admin fees” and “delivery fees” (in Ontario),
You are paying for all of those with any product. You think they'd deliver your products for free? The difference is that in Ontario utility companies have to list all those charges on the bill.
>You pay 350$/month for utilities in your condo. I pay 350$/month for utilities in my 1600 sq ft home. My friend pays 350$/month for utilities in his 2400 sq ft home.
Something seems wrong there.
Yes, because you completely made those numbers up. Utility bills absolutely increase or decrease based on usage. The fixed fees are a minor part of the bill, rest of it is variable and based on usage
That's weird. Our condo is 770sqft, $50 bimonthly electric bill, $65 monthly Telus and that's it. Maybe you use electricity for heat? As our heat is included in strata fee.
No you are not the enemy, so why be so insecure about how someone responds to you on the interwebs and causing the negative replies and karma you seem to be getting. You are your worse enemy it seems, lol
lmao not a all. Just saying you sound super insecure about.. well everything. I think you just like to argue and even troll a bit..something you are not even good at. lol
$350 for condo utilities sounds insane to me. I don’t pay anywhere near that. The delivery fees are always the vast majority of my hydro bill except maybe the months where the AC is running nonstop.
The original post included the phone and cable.
To compare to today you would also include either a landline or your cell phone ($34-$50 per month) and Internet ($40-$100) per month.
its legislation mandating condo fees have a reserve fund to pay for repairs...which isnt necessarily unreasonable.
for example, our place we have around 470. 140 goes towards the rf, which in theory you should not have to pay for any repairs as this should be covered. Apparently engineers who do RFS are supposed to be good and anticipate costs, but in reality they are terrible at it and cant even anticipate what they will charge clients for the rfs in the future - literally ive seen them budget X for their services and then when it comes to hiring them again their costs are higher...
If you cant anticipate your own fees, why should anyo e trust that you can anticipate the cost of other services in the future?
Instead of giving that shit advice as if you’re some sort of genius for thinking it have you considered acknowledging that housing costs are super fucked up and it’s kind of a massive problem across the entire country that needs to be addressed?
When people do that in significant numbers, they drive up housing prices in the regions they move to. “Just move lolz” is not a solution to housing crisis, you just end up spreading the problem everywhere.
I expected to see this kind of comments downvoted on subs like r/ontario or r/toronto , but not at this sub. It's really as simple as making sacrifices but people don't want to be inconvenienced but are happy to bitch about everything.
People are quick to point out technological innovations as examples of how lives are better today than decades prior. I like to point out that families survived and thrived when only one spouse needed to work. We've gained technology and lost time with our family and kids.
Growing up my parents used to find excuses to get us out of their hair so they could have alone time. Now it feels like the exact opposite. It's currently 7pm here and I'm waiting on responses on my work laptop. My wife is still at the school and some district bullshit required meeting. I don't have any kids and honestly we are both thinking we will never have time to have any unless something drastic changes.
This is one of my big gripes. Technological advancement should lead to increases in productivity. Which you would hope would lead to increased wages and/or more time to spend with your loved ones. But it hardly feels that way.
We got people picking up second jobs doing gigs like Uber to pay bills. And dual-income families that still struggle to find affordable housing without having to move out to the middle of nowhere. It's a travesty.
Excellent point. And I would argue that parents losing time with their kids and even having less kids is degrading society and producing less well adjusted young adults.
That was my thought, too, but also... What if I could keep my great job and my husband could be home full-time and still make ends meet? What if we both could work part-time and not starve? I don't think it means regressing in terms of gender equity, necessarily.
So you're telling me that if your parents had spent money on Starbucks and Amazon, they would not have been able to afford their $150k house?
They even had $1200 left over at the end of each month. They could have used that money on any crap they wanted, and still afforded their house.
And that budget includes $500 of miscellaneous purchases. Are you telling me that none of those miscellaneous purchases were the 1990s equivalent of taking an Uber?
I can't believe that after sharing how their home is now worth 13x more than it once was, while the average income for people with their type of jobs is now about double (roughly speaking), your conclusion is that anyone can do what they did, if they don't use Netflix or put their kids in soccer.
Let's also remember that Nintendo, Game Boy, Playstation, Legos, etc. were also pretty expensive and coveted toys that (upper) middle class people bought their kids.
Yeah, and I bet you never had any avocado toast or Starbucks, which is why you're so financially secure today, right?
Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that your (upper) middle class upbringing, strong Asian family ties, and generational wealth allowed you the freedom and time to study, get a good paying job and save money probably by living at home.
A better case study would be OP’s parents. Who started from zero as a fresh immigrant with no ties no generational wealth.
OP had “generational wealth”how about their parents?
Come one now OP had 1 generation before him. Hardly generational wealth if you consider the literally generational of possible accumulation some Caucasian family have. With ties going back to colonial days.
Beside how do you think generation 1 starts?
"Started from zero" is a common bullshit myth that immigrants like to spread to inflate their accomplishments.
The fact is that the vast majority of immigrants - even in the 1990s - had requirements to have $$. Regardless of your skill set, you could not immigrate to Canada if you did not have enough $$ to support yourself (and any family you brought with you) for an entire year. Not assuming that you could land a job immediately.
The only exception to this was government-sponsored immigrants (a tiny minority out of all immigrants) that technically received government loans to cover their living expenses for the first year of their arrival. That money had to be paid back.
Do people "who come from nothing" have cash savings to support themselves for 1 year without working? No. Just look at all the Indian "students" who are working jobs instead of going to school.
You are not wrong most immigrant during the 90s is not poor but not all of them are balling out of control like you think they are.
Vast majority of them are require to invest in bullshit business in the middle of nowhere. Some people spend all of their previous generation’s saving just to come here. Not to mentioned a lot of them do have to start from zero again to build credit and rebuild their career.
Starting from Zero might be an exaggeration but it much closer to the truth for vast majority of immigrant. The crazy Chinese billionaire is the outlier esp in 1990 where China has just begun its reform.
Tbh I think this hate for generational wealth specifically towards immigrants stem from the fact that a lot of people struggling today do have generations of tied to Canada. Their parent their parent grandparent, great great grand parent. They were here in Canada and did not manage to leave a lasting legacy for the current generation.
> You are not wrong most immigrant during the 90s is not poor but not all of them are loaded like you think they are.
The vast majority of immigrants did not receive government sponsorship (i.e. loans) to immigrate. That was true in the 1990s and it's still true today.
So yes, they did in fact have to be "loaded", or have private sponsors who raised the equivalent funds they lacked.
I think most people would consider those who have enough $$ to not work for a year and support themselves to be "loaded".
I'm not talking about investor visas, btw. I'm talking about the requirements for skills-based immigrants that met all points requirements. Regardless of your education/skills, if you did not prove you had $$, you were not granted a visa. Period. If you had private sponsors (such as church groups, friends or relatives) they had to put up the cash instead.
Amazing how people have no fucking clue what the immigration system actually is, and then still insist on the media narrative that these are downtrodden people fleeing their home countries.
It’s sounds like it’s you that have no idea what the immigrant experience is.
I happened to immigrate to Canada in the 90s with my parent. My parent came from a small village in China, starting working when they were 10. Fought their way to the cities and save up for 40 fucking years until they had enough money for just 1 year of living expensive in this first world country. They were not loaded by any means and even went bankrupt only 5 years into their life in Canada. They wanted their child to grow up in a society where 1 year of living expense = 40 years of slaving and penny pinching. To have a chance at a better life, even if it means it will take everything they have and a literally leap of faith into a foreign country where they barely speak the language, is a minority and have to rebuild their career from the beginning.
China in 1990 is not the China of today. They weee literally just starting their reform not to mention 1997 Asian financial crisis hit and wipe out the alot of wealth.
I know is hard to comprehend if you have never immigrate anywhere. Saving dwindle and can go to zero if you have no way of bringing in additional income, especially when you have a family to support which all have no income. Which a lot of immigrate faces when they step foot on a foreign soil as an adult with their best working years behind them. OP’s parent story is pretty on par with my parents and a lot of immigrants I’ve grow up with.
It’s cute that you think 1 year of living expensive is loaded. You have no idea that this could literally mean several generation of saving for some immigrant just to be able to step foot on this land.
And yes for majority of them. The first opportunity they had thought brought a house. No it’s not because they can foresee the incredible raise in value. They wanted their family to have root in a country where they never had root in. In a lot of these immigrant stories. They were not property tycoon, they were simply family that brought home for themselve and happen to ride the RE boom. Which by all account and looking at OP’s math. Is possible for all middle class living in Canada during that generation and even easier for earlier generation. It should be easy for your parent or your gran parent or your great grand parent. Remember 1 year of living expense was at least a decade of saving for us that immigrate during this time. Y’all had all the advantage, what happened? And why do you hate us instead of your previous generation?
Growing up I never got to do the expensive things like sport, gaming, or parents with PTO or the yearly vacation and camping trips and fancy bbq in the backyard. We get a steak on our birthday and ration food for the rest of 364 days.
So yea I don’t know here jones from next door. Your family has been here for generation and generation. We clear out my parent and his parents wealth just to be here. I dunno what generational wealth means. I’ve only been here one generation. Y’all have been here for many, what happened?
Generational wealth isn't parents who came with nothing and own a home.
It's literally generations of building wealth. Like, your grandfather was a businessman during the first Trudeau era, your great uncle sat on the board of directors for Alcan, your mother grew up with a trust fund, your father was a successful dentist, and some semi-distant relative owns a castle in Quebec City.
People are missing the point of OPs post and focusing on minor details because they are made they can't afford a house.
I agree with OP that in today's world things that were considered luxuries in our parents times are considered normal things. All the subscriptions, eating out as often, the number of vacations people are going on to different destinations, and all of those things add up and are just a few examples.
Will cutting back on those luxuries mean you automatically can afford a house? No. Will cutting back on those luxuries mean you can have a more sustainable financial future? Yes.
I'll never understand these posts.
Mate, his parents didn't spend money on Amazon because they didn't have it. Many goods were straight up not available.
They didn't have instant unlimited access to endless entertainment either. Would you trade our luxuries of today to afford a house?
Most people are far more comfortable now, even if they're in a smaller apartment.
Just face it, its different now. That doesn't mean it's worse.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
My parents sold their house 15 years ago but they have a comfortable retirement. And I think I mentioned specifiically that housing is an area where expectations should be lowered. A couple making 200K joint can still afford housing but it likely won't be a detached house in a major city. And no, not everyone can do what they did, some will actually do much better!
It always gets me how people are like, "everything is just fine, expectations just need to be lowered!"
The lowered expectation is a problem. People get called entitled and deluded for saying, "We would have easily afforded a detached house with our salary; now we have to save really hard to afford a two bedroom condo, and we will buy it when we are 10 years older than that family in the 1990s did."
Guess what, it SUCKS that that's the case! We're allowed to complain that the quality of life went down!
If a dual income professional couple can barely afford a smaller, shittier home, then people who are poor have it much worse.
Housing isn't just one area of a budget that randomly changed price with little effect. It's the foundational pillar of any budget.
This isn't like saying, "a pair of shoes is now cheaper than it was in the 90s, isn't that something? But a phone is more expensive! Fun facts!"
It's a huge deal.
There's only 40k detached houses in vancouver, for a population of 700k. Living in a detached house was the EXCEPTION, not the norm.
Demanding to live in a detached becuase your parents lived in a detached, while ignoring the realities of the living situation in every single other major city in the world is the definition of entitlement.
In the 90s there was no such thing as work from home or work remotely. No such thing as ride share or car share. No such thing as passive income or online income. No such thing as online investing/trading. While you can argue that apples to apples on a price per sq ft basis your life is more expensive (which I will not argue and is clearly the case) I will say the levers and opportunities to make more money and generate income are vastly more than they have ever been in our lifetime.
I’m part of a couple making $200k joint income that bought a 3-bedroom semi-detached house in Toronto (city proper, not suburbs). We didn’t get money from parents for our down payment but used equity from the condo we sold. We do not have kids.
When we got the condo, we sold the car and rented out our second room to a series of roommates. We use public transit to get to most places and have a car share membership for special circumstances. Now that we have a house, we still don’t have a car and had rented one of our bedrooms to a roommate for a year. NEITHER of these things would have been options our parents would have considered when they were our age. They actually question our decision to have roommates even though we’re in our late 30s and the idea of living without a car to them is unimaginable.
We are seriously considering never having kids. There is a shortage of space in subsidized daycares which would have been the only way we would have been able to afford raising children. (We also don’t have parents living close by who could help us.) So in some ways, I feel like I’ve been making more sacrifices in my financial decisions compared to my parents.
Making these kinds of financial decisions in order to own a house is not for everyone. To suggest that it’s just a matter of making a few sacrifices is pretty shortsighted, and this is coming from someone who has “made it”.
Median household monthly after tax income is $4,333 (2020) while your parents were $5,253 (2020 adj.). That's 18% less in income.
Average family now spends $1,532 on groceries not $621
BC average insurance is $1,832 not $836
...I could go on... then factor qualification creep the cost of those qualifications and the interest that goes with that, etc. Then look at the age they were making that money - we've treated our younger generations as uninformed cheap labour to be exploited not as families with the highest expenses at that point in their lives.
I mean, that was kind of his point. He wanted to show how much it cost back then in today's dollars.
IE car insurance cost $800 in today's dollars when it's closer to $2k now.
Starting from a higher interest rate environment to a lower interest rate is easy mode. The house prices were lower as a result as the carrying costs were higher initially. As interest rates declined, carrying costs declined but wages marched upward AND the value of the house increased.
Any boomer trying to give financial advice to younger generations is irrelevant... their experience will never match the experience of today's generation.
I disagree. Boomers grew up dealing with high inflation and many temptations to spend as technology improved. VCRs and laser disc players were over $1000 when I grew up. Saving money investing and budgeting is always relevant. You can learn from our mistakes and from what we did right. Instead you blame a whole generation for your woes and think we have nothing valuable to say. We learned from our parents who were not baby boomers as they were the ww2 generation. Every generation should listen to the previous one as they were young first.
People forget that the boomers were moving out of their parent's homes in 1965-1975ish and house prices doubled in that timeframe...
That was the change from one income to afford suburbia to two.
Look at all the apartment building built in the 70s. There was a CMHC deal on at the time where if you built an apartment building you got a chunk of cash from the federal government to do so....
Justin should check his dad's notes. He needs to do the same thing.
True. Listen as a boomer I own my own condo and feel very fortunate to have grown up in the last century when you could get ahead with careful planning and don't envy the youth of today who have it much tougher.
So you admit that your bullshit claims of saving money and budgeting is totally irrelevant then?
People aren't lining up at food banks or living with room-mates until well into their 30s because they're buying the equivalent of fucking VCRs and disc players.
They're doing those things because housing costs are too high and their income is too low.
The WW 2 generation gave a shit about the welfare of their Boomer kids which is why they got the advantages that they did.
The same is not true of the Boomer generation when it came to their own kids. Therein lies the difference.
Not sure what your rant means. I never said it was easy today to buy a home quite the opposite.And my sister is a boomer parent who has been wonderfully financially supportive to her 3 kids who now all having kids of their own and lots of her boomer friends are the same. Sounds like you are part of the blame game. Saving and budgeting is more relevant than ever because you cannot afford to not do that these days unless you are rich.
You can't save what you don't have, dude.
If the vast majority of the Boomer generation behaved like you *claim* your sister does, their kids wouldn't have a lower standard of living. Yet that is true across the board, and it all started with the Boomers.
There's a reason you were called the Me generation, and it's not for your ability to give a shit about what's beyond the end of your nose.
That reputation exists for a reason, and it doesn't have anything to do with the moral character of younger people.
You are just dissing an entire generation. Doesn't accomplish anything blaming others.I have empathy for young folks but get irritated by those lashing out angrily as if everything is our fault. There are many complex factors why things are the way they are. A lot of boomers tried to do their best,raise families and make a living while contributing to society. I had a 40 year career trying to help youth with mental health issues in a treatment setting. I worked,got married, obeyed the laws. Sure there were boomers who have run selfish corporations that priotized money over people and were useless in government but that is not all of us. Every generation has good and bad.
Imagine all the houses you can buy if you cut ALL your $10 monthly subscriptions, that's like $10-20 extra a month, in 40,000 months or 3333 years you can afford the average house.
20 years ago my rent was under $800 in vancouver all in living alone. The same place now is around 4k. (Edit: I haven't lived there in 18 y but kept an eye on its rental price)
That sums up a huge chunk of it.
Edit.
So... To be clear your response is that people should just live somewhere else? Ground breaking thinking buddy...
I was outlining issues in my area very relevant to the discussion at hand.
Politely you're misunderstanding what's going on here.
so the same house bought now at 5% would be $8630 monthly assuming 20% down. More than your parents combined total income.
If i stop buying doodads and wazoos on amazon maybe my boss will give me a 300% raise so i can afford it.
> Candadian financial success for the average working family is still possible
What's your definition of financial success? Surely not sitting on a home that has grown 10X?
Its whatever you want it to be. Its security. Its being able to retire at a decent age. Whether than means a big house or condo or trailer is up to you.
Then your comment about "financial success being possible" is useless. You first tell people to temper their expectations and then you say the dream can be whatever they want.
I actually agree with the idea of tempering expectations. Your parents could not achieve the same financial success if they tried to replicate their experience in today's world. But if you call achieving lowered expectations a success, then yeah, you hit the nail on the head, I guess.
In 30 years the newer generation will likely be saying to same things about us and how easy we have it now. 90s at the time was considered to be a rough time. When looking back you see everything through rose coloured glasses.
it's cycles. A few generations ago, people had it way worse than we do now, during the WWs. Then came the good times and prosperity. The hard times will come again, and then the good times again.
But the bad times don't HAVE to affect one portion of the population so much worse, if we plan appropriately. There's no reason to keep policy that encourages consolidation of assets to the wealth classes. In the coming hard times, those that don't own anything will be the serfs. If we can prevent the eventual "lords" from accumulating all of the assets in the meantime, we can at least reduce the hardship that many will experience.
There aren't discrete choices to pick from - there is no "pure capitalism" and "pure socialism"; we have aspects of various economic systems in Canada.
Why do we shame the hoarding of Lysol wipes during Covid? It's not illegal, but it's a terrible thing for society. We need to be able to look at our existing system and identify pinch points based on the crises we're experiencing. I wouldn't be advocating for this approach if there was no housing crisis. But there is. And it's crazy to just keep doing what we're doing because we've let it go on for decades; sadly for us, we didn't grow Canada's productivity at the same time, and now we're terribly off-balance. The re-balancing won't be pleasant and will change things we've grown to rely on (investment pptys to grow wealth), but the alternative of circling the drain can't be our default choice just because other solutions may not be capitalistic in nature. There is no profitable solution to creating affordable housing.
I am indeed richer than we were then my parents were then because of said roughness and mistakes that were made by our family. It wasn't obvious what lay ahead either.
Every generation has to be realistic. We now on average are unlikely to have as much as our parents had in terms of wealth. A small minority may have more if they are in the higher levels of earnings. Like become plastic surgeons while parents worked at GM for example. Success is personally measured. Having a big house,a boat, 2 cars and annual big out of country vacations is not likely for most if that is how success is defined. But most of us surely do not expect that with average jobs no?
It sounds like we perceive our current the environment the same way. Your OP seemed to suggest that with belt-tightening, people today can achieve similar to what your parents did.
What lifestyle would you speculate that people today could have, with jobs like your parents had? You're right that we shouldn't expect to have a materially-wealthier lifestyle than our parents, but that's a new trend, and it is at odds with "achieving a dream", because I don't think anyone's definition of a dream is working more and having less than their parents.
I think he is just stating how his parents lived. Do not see where he says we can do better than that today with belt tightening in fact it was easier then to do that and still buy a house. He is comparing the 90's with today.
I was suggesting bugeting and living within your means is the same whether its 1990 or 2024. I understand its harder now even for me based on the factors I suggested. I make mention that housing costs are an outlier. Heck I didnt even say my parents were very successful, I consider them somewhat successfull but I have high standards.
I agree with you. A comfortable retirement not in debt and security while owning a condo or house is how I define success. Not sure why you are being downvoted here unless you have upset a bunch of snowflakes.
It's crazy seeing how much more than inflation everything on your list has risen, it really makes me question how exactly inflation makes sense the way it's calculated. Sure electronics, and clothes and stuff you buy occasionally has stayed static, but what does that matter when the needs/near needs like food, car insurance, utilities and housing have gone up so much more.
I think it's important to remember that life was a lot simpler back then, the internet didn't exist, but so many of things that are essential now weren't necessary then, and make the internet more important. So many more forms to fill out for everything. So much bureaucracy has been added to our world, and then they wonder why stress levels are so high.
>No Amazon/Online/Starbucks/Cafe buying
Obviously no online, but delivery services were very common back in the 80's milk man, consumers distributing and sears catalogue shopping, even beer deliveries a bit earlier.
>No spending on 'activities' for kids and minimal entertainment spend
Part of the difference is there were so many more opportunities for kids non organized activities back then. It felt like there were more kids on my block growing up, then there are in my entire neighbourhood as my kids have grown up.
I grew up in an apartment in Eastern Europe. My childhood was literally going outside to the playground and coming home for lunch/dinner.
You'll literally go to jail if you let your 8 year old kids do that here on their own.
CPI is a fundamentally flawed metric that hides the reality of how much less purchasing power we have today than we did 35 years ago. A true measure of inflation that takes things like housing and education into account runs more like 7% per year.
We are getting poorer every year.
The system is broken. Government is addicted to printing money and deficit spending it, which steals purchasing power from the average citizen who can barely save let alone earn investment interest at the rate it is being inflated away. Nominal value increases but actual value decreases. New dollars are being created at such a fast rate that they eventually flood the market where an oversupply of dollars purchases and under supply of goods and services, driving up the price. It’s economics. Inflation is the outcome of uncontrolled monetary inflation.
my parents are in their 70s. they said they paid their house off in a bit over 4 years (new build) and never had a mortgage from 1977 on.
they did their life differently from their friends. their friends got married and had kids (early 20s). my parents went with the idea of "live first, then have kids", so my brother and i didnt show up til '79 & 81. so they were early 30's.
im not sure what bills were, but we never went 'without'. always nice vacations, good quality household items, tons of activities, lots of dining out, etc.
the one thing that im often told by my mom... she likes to brag that she was getting GIC rates upwards of 18% in the early/mid 80s.
My parents tried saying to us that we have a harder time getting by because of cell phones bills- I asked her how much she and my dad smoked. Shocked pikachu face. I make the same as my Dad did from 1989- 2010 (and even now) but they bought their first house (4 bed, 3 bath, multilevel with a separate garage) for 90k, to my 700 sqft condo for $250k. It’s disgusting how expensive life costs now and how much wages have stagnated. They would have been sick to spend $250k on a house at the same income level yet a comparable property to their home sits at easily 900k where I live. Ugh!!!!!
This is an unpopular opinion probably, but part of the reason that life is so expensive is because people aren’t *actually* reacting to it.
This doesn’t apply to everything, like let’s say groceries, which people need… but there are a lot of things that have gotten out of control because people can’t just say “no.”
The automotive industry. I bought my truck 8 years ago for 45k. Now this truck new off the lot is 75k. But everywhere I look people are buying brand new trucks, jeeps, luxury SUVs, etc. “omg that’s soooo expensive! Are you kidding me?! Ok here take my money.”
A new iPhone? Over $1000.
Why? Because people line up out the door to buy the new one the day they come out.
If people didn’t pay these prices, the prices would come down or the company wouldn’t sell anything.
SOME of the cost of our lives is self-inflicted because people have zero self control
Rent in Quebec is a good exemple of this.
Rent is partielly control, as is not suppose to go higher then a certain form+calcul give. And the price up is only 1x each month but check this. Rent is 600$, then annual augmentation comme let's add 100$, (which put the rent at 700$) then the old tenant need to quit, new one come, new renter come, another price hile let's say 950$. And then the annual augmentation again that put it at 1050...while the rent should be around 700$ but people don"t file, don't complain so here goes the price
Yeah, OP kinda failed on the lecturing, but the fact of the matter is our parents simply weren't eating out nearly as often, there were fewer subscriptions, folks were still more likely to be watching "free" tv via antenna rather than subscribing to cable, there was probably only one TV in the house, they didn't have 2 or more phone bills, people bought new cars but average selling price was lower as percentage of income (the $60k truck with 5 seats is a choice!), and so on.
Now, how much money could be saved if you threw out the restaurants/food delivery/subscriptions??? I'm not sure and I doubt it would be as impactful as "simply lowering rent". But the extra, optional costs there in many peoples lives, and it's a luxury whether we want to admit or not.
> A new iPhone? Over $1000. Why? Because people line up out the door to buy the new one the day they come out.
To be fair.. an iPhone replaced a laptop for a huge chunk of people.
10-15 years ago you'd spend $1000-2000 on a laptop every 3 years because it would break or go obsolete that fast.
Now you can buy a mid-tier laptop for $900 for doing occasional taxes and complicated paperwork and have it last you 6+ years.
But most of your daily computering can now be done on the phone.
Also, you can buy a mid-tier Android phone for like $200 and still have it last 2+ years.
> If people didn’t pay these prices, the prices would come down or the company wouldn’t sell anything.
To be fair, if companies as a group decide to only sell expensive stuff, you don't have much choice. You can buy cheap $15k new cars in Europe and Asia. These literally don't exist here anymore. Hell, you can't even get a decent used car for less than $12k now.
It's not technically price fixing, but it's basically price fixing from a consumer perspective.
if these boomers ever admitted it's bullshit now then they have to admit they did nothing to earn their wealth. and we can't have that now. they are all geniuses after all.
1450 in (todays dollars )mortgage payment for a HOUSE and youre blaming a cell phone bill/ starbucks?
Let me guess they gave some of their 2M dollar sale to help you out, and now you dont understand the problem for others
>Monthly Mortgage payment on a house: ~$700 @ 111-15% interest!! (1450) (new 2500 ft house bought in Burnaby in 1988 for $150k, now worth ~ $2M)
Well there you go.
🤑🤑🤑🤑
Not sure how your conclusion follows from what you stated previously.
There is no getting around the fact that income vs. house prices were FAR more in line back then, and consequently people had a higher standard of living.
No amount of fiscal discipline or "simpler life" can polish that turd.
No, ordering an Uber on your phone instead of just using a payphone to call a taxi and browsing the internet while you're at the grocery store is not a quality of life issue. I don't know why people keep harping on this dumbass point.
People aren't lining up at food banks because they're blowing their money on Ubers and cell phones. They're lining up at food banks because they don't earn enough money to cover their living expenses.
I think you're conflating two factors: consumption and skyrocketing cost of living. As someone who's pretty frugal and earning in the range of your parents together, living alone I can't afford luxuries and the quality of life they had. I don't use Uber, Starbucks, Apple, or Costco and use Amazon very sparingly. So no, it's not the former one, it's most definitely the latter.
And by the way, the cost of living drives consumption up. Look up the lipstick effect. When people can't afford big ticket items, they turn to buying small trinkets like skincare or takeout to make themselves feel better. Small item consumption is highest in depressions and recessions.
Yep, if you calculate that you can only save up a down-payment if you are frugal for 12 years, then it's very likely you'll break that frugality to buy an avocado toast once in a while.
If someone told me I could live frugally for 3 years and buy a house, I would be much more able to do it.
Yeah; when people give up on ever owning a home, they might buy a nice truck at the big ticket level.
I have neighbours that live in the basement units of my rental building -- which are the ones converted from storage, not exactly great units -- and they seem to have starbucks and other delivery food by their door a fair bit. it's on the way to parking, so I see it fairly often, but starbucks is about 10 minutes walk...Wendy's is 15 and people get that delivered.
You really see the inefficient consumption that happens when basics get really expensive. May as well splurge on things when they feel cheap compared to groceries.
I'll counter this by saying.... today there are ways to make income that were not even possible in the 90s....in the 90's you had a 9-5 job or part time job or nothing. Today you can be a delivery driver, any multitude of remote/gig type work, online trading, the notion of multiple income streams was not possible in the 90s. Do you want to work more to get more? By "quality of life" if you are comparing house sq footage apples to apples thats a lost battle. Remember, there was no remote work/WFH back then. There was no ride sharing or car sharing. Investing required you call up your broker and do a trade for a fee. So conversely there's way more levers now then what parents had to achieve financial success.
> Do you want to work more to get more?
Sure. But no one wants to work more to get less than what others were given for the same or less work. Young people have very good reason to be angry about that.
Hard work demands a reward for the hard work. But we've reached a point where an average person's birth year and parent's property value says more about their financial success than any of their actual work or accomplishments. Why would a young person want to participate in this system?
But hey I guess its all ok because we can lower our expectations. We can all raise our families in one bedroom condos and moonlight as uber drivers on top of our full time dayjobs and pretend like this is normal.
Yup. Thats the way the world works buddy. The guys older than me are richer than me. The guys older than you are richer than you. And you're right....none of us did anything to earn it except for being born when we were born and everything was just given to us!
That's not how it was though, that's the problem. You're being obtuse to my point.
It used to be the case that parents left a better world and quality of life for their children, who then left a better quality of life for their children, and so on. This was made possible as we advanced and innovated as a society. This was true up until the boomer generation.
Now, something ugly has changed in the social contract where now young people are being left with a significantly worse quality of life than their parents, and it may be even worse for the next generation.
This is not "how the world works", its an anomaly to be concerned about. Quality of life should not regress unless there's a war or some other catastrophe.
You or I don't deserve less than what the older generations did. My eight year old nephew doesn't deserve less than me. We should be striving to make society better, not accept its decline with our heads in the sand. Its pathetic.
Nothing is ever granted. At a personal level, the sense of entitlement that you deserve something better just because is a recipe for failure. I never heard of this concept of social contract all I cared about was doing something valuable for society, making money for me, my family, saving, investing and frankly getting richer so I can buy the things we wanted and needed. Has it worked out OK for me? Ya sure I guess but certainly I didn't ever once whine about it I just grinded it out, head down and worked at it and still working just like what my parents did for 30 years.
Oh but wait...you thought life was easy.....
I don't disparage hard work. I worked since I was 17, have a STEM graduate degree, and now work a great job making more money than most people. I don't want handouts.
I think people should work hard, but they should also be proportionately rewarded for that hard work. If a person wants to work 60-80 hours a week, good for them, but they should not *need* to work that to afford less than what a person working 40 or less hours a week could get 20 years ago.
No one should want that, least of all parents bringing their children into this world. We should be excited for the future, not terrified that our kids are going to struggle through poverty.
I'll leave you with a question to consider, not expecting to change your mind. How bad does it need to get for the majority of the population before you would acknowledge that there's a societal problem? Hypothetically, If 99% of the population was living in abject poverty at the expense of 1% living in luxury and controlling all the wealth, would you still be saying that the 99% "just need to work harder"?
You could easily pick up a part-time retail/restaurant job on the side.
Sure, it's probably less flexible than driving Uber, but it was (proportionally) more money as well.
You also had a lot more job security in your primary job, whereas now, everyone I know is basically living in constant feat of layoffs, restructuring, or going obsolete in the job market.
If you know your job would still be there 1, 3, 10 years from now, it's a lot easier to plan than thinking you may be laid off anytime.
To me, both your initial point and this one reflect your belief in meritocracy and the just world. Perhaps, you want to showcase your parents as hardworking people who earnestly got what they deserved. "Work hard and reap what you sow." I don't oppose that they were hardworking people, but the world had shifted to a game much more rigged against the player.
In today's world, an immigrant from a developing country will not land and get a 9-5 office job with benefits. They will drive Uber, where they get a tip ($1 per every $10 if they are lucky) and Uber takes 90% of their trip pay. Yes, you can be a TikTok/OF influencer and earn money that way or be a day trader. I wouldn't want those jobs. I don't think today's gig economy offers opportunities large or stable enough to offset the bias of the cost of living. I actually think it's the opposite. We used to be workers, in the gig economy we are the product.
Try being my parents as the first wave of Asian Immigrants in 1970s/1980s Canada dealing with all the crap they had to deal with. The problem now is an International Student comes to Canada hoping to get rich quick, get a fancy car and nice house after 2 years and complaining they want to go home.
This is not how it works...
They could afford a house and a family on a after tax income of 6217 in todays dollars
I can afford rent, or a mortgage on a 1 bedroom 30 year old condo with a 40% down payment with the same after tax income....
So what’s better? Working 40 hours a week, go home to a house (detached with a yard), a family, food on the table, two cars on the driveway or working 60-80 hours a week to be able to afford a small condo or rent with a car, probably no or very few kids or a pet? We weren’t meant to work ourselves to death just to live - that’s not living. Also, being a delivery driver isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be, you use up your car for pennies.
25 years ago, I was working a minimum wage job ($7/hr) and was renting a bachelor apartment for $825 (hydro extra) that I shared with my then-partner. No air conditioning, no in-suite laundry, no car, no cable, no internet at home (used public library), no nothing. I don't think I bought a single piece of clothing for like 5 years. Crazy times indeed. Education saved me (thanks OSAP).
Not sure what your point of this post is OP. There are already tons of data point out there that clearly show increase in housing cost begins to greatly outpace income starting in 2015. I’ll let you figure out one key change Canada had in 2015 that might have contributed to housing cost going hockey stick in the last 10 years cumulating in massive inflation of everything in last couple of years. (Hint: it’s not Uber eats)
I recently found our tax returns from 1993. My husband and I combined made $32,000 (past Mr. & Mrs. desdemona\_d would not be able to fathom what future Mr. & Mrs. desdemona\_d are making now). At the time we were early 20s, living in Alberta and had one child. I remember our rent was $525 for a two bedroom apartment, we drove a beater car and were trying to survive on $50 a week for groceries (including diapers & formula - eek!)
Fair enough. However, money was always tight. I remember my parents fought about money probably about spending it on lavish overseas vacations. Keep in mind middle class in Vancouver is not the same as middle class in Moose Jaw....
Your family was top 10% income. Overseas vacations were more expensive, so it could have made it feel like money was more tight but that was by choice.
Sorry 'bout typos and all..
I can't say I remember when my parents had to sell their first house right after I was born since the metal price crash of '89 pretty much destroyed our mining town economy. That and the 15% interest rates.
My first vivid memory is us moving back to that town , after a 6 year exodus working in the far north, in an appartment building as they were pulling planks off the boarded windows... or moving to live with my grandma shortly thereafter to be able to save even more money. Obviously they were not making multiples of the average salary even though they both had a profession.
We never lacked anything and honestly I didnt even know my dad was working so much overtime to make sure we had everything we needed...I thought he loved it ! ( I still think he did, workaholic much). I still feel bad for not helping more around the house with chores. I couldnt fathom having jordans or anything of such, never even came to mind. We had 1 family vacation out of country as a family to a cheaper destination in our whole life and it's still a very vivid memory for all of us.
What I do remember is despite all this my parents were eventually able to save enough money to build a house by themselves. When my dad was done working he would go to this plot of land and work until late night...built the damn thing by himself, took two years. They sold right before covid ( poor timing ) to move to a bigger city and now for them these rent increases are starting to dig into the retirement budget. They really got unlucky timing at the start and end of their careers...
What I can tell you has changed is back then people with average salaries could still turn things around and provide a great childhood to their kids and save up enough for retirement if they were smart. Today I don't see how anyone could make it work.
You say it's possible if you make the right decisions... I think this is coming from a position of priviledge. I was lucky enough my parents sacrificed for me to be succesful and then to be comfortable in retirement but I don't see someone who hasnt had some form of support have the same odds of success now as they did 20-30 years ago. Let alone be able to save up for a decent retirement. I can, I do but for **** sake I understand those who currently struggle. I just can't get over the prices of things when we go out grocery shopping or just want to go out on an activity/ do some renos on the house.
The social contract has been broken...or will be very soon. Those who genuinly want to try are not coming in on a leveled playfield. The many are losing for the priviledge of a few. I do my part, I still live in the province I was born into and want to keep paying my taxes here to the system which allowed me to have a great career but lately it's been getting tougher to look at where our country is heading and still think the system works for all.
I think those who can make it should consider how others are supposed to make it for a second. Back then you could have a career in retail and still make ends meet if you were frugal... can you imagine living of minimum wage now ? And mind you, I say this and I am not an advocate to raise minimum wage, it's not the solution. You can't keep raising the floor hoping the ladder gets shorter.
Also a huge part of spending today is based in the availability and diversity of goods that you can buy. In 1990, you don't have smartphones or app subscriptions. You don't have online shopping at your fingertips or social media that pushes products at you multiple times a day. Laptops, airpods, .. heck even supplements, beauty products and other self care all has blown up. Flights are "affordable" as well.
When I was growing up, "big" purchases like a TV or large appliance would be a very infrequent thing. Nowadays, I see people get new phones regularly or something else that can easily put you back 1k.
The phone argument is such BS, I work in tech and make decent money and I don't know anyone that gets a new phone every year. My husband refuses to replace his 4yo one because it still has an audio jack...
I could buy 3 Iphones a month for what a mortgage payment on a Condo in our city costs and that is a massive problem when the average income here is $70k a year. Housing costs are dwarfing whatever silly goods/apps people are buying for the most part.
I know many people who get it every 2 years (new phone w/ new plan). In fact they make it so that it seems reasonable for most people so that they can sell their 2 year phone (probably for a few hundred) and get a new one while keeping their tab/plan payments high. Every year might be an exaggeration.
PS totally understand about the audio jack... hated getting rid of that in mines.
Regarding the mortgage/housing portion, while consumer purchases are definitely a smaller part of budgets, it is still quite important to keep track of. A lot of smaller purchase decisions lead to a lower budget for housing. Going with cheaper phone plans, fewer subscriptions, eating out one time fewer per week can make a big impact on your purchasing power (today, not so much, but it was definitely the case 5+ years ago).
I replied something similar in a different thread the other day. Growing up back then for most people there were never any trips anywhere or you would go on 1 or 2 trips your entire life. We went on 1 vacation to Florida my entire childhood and I'm pretty sure my grandpa paid.
All of my parents furniture was hand me downs from their parents which they had had since college.
You ate at a restaurant like 2 times a year. All the food at home was whatever was the cheapest. All my clothes were hand me downs. New shoes every couple years.
Everyone I knew had a lot of the exact same things we did. Like same exact house phone, appliances, blankets, chairs, toys. There was basically no choice with anything. We had to watch every dollar and nothing was ever for certain.
I feel like most boomers weren't living some lavish lifestyle. They had a house they didn't fully own and nothing else from my memory.
IMO its a generational thing as well... especially with kids who are turning 18 right now and grew up only knowing this well-connected world.
I agree with you on so many points. Vacations were truly a luxury. Most getaways were short road trips (ex. camping) or trips to the local beach. We did enjoy food, but it was often a birthday or celebration of some kind. Takeout was usually a cheap pizza.
You would go into a mall to just hang and 99% of the time would only buy something from the food court. I think parents in my generation were really of that saving mindset, where I see spending becoming more of a habit now.
Yeah but many people are impulsive today having $6 lattes at Starbucks and ordering take out instead of cooking at home. I know people that waste over $ 100 a week on shit like that.
Dude I used to waste a lot more than $100 a week on stuff like that. More like $3-400/week on stupid eating out and coffees, snacks. It's pretty easy when you live DT and are out a lot.
Yes I agree. In our family, it felt like everything we bought like a new TV was intentional and saved up for. The time from wanting to getting was longer. Now in a click you can have some Amazon package show up in your door that night.
Yes, what seems to be the an accepted “standard” lifestyle has changed.
Many things that where luxuries in the past are common goods. But many can’t afford it, so they feel they are doing worse. It’s easier to be content with less when you don’t have pressure from social media and your peers.
OP said their parents bought a house in the late 70s so let's say 1979 when interest rates were 12.10% and they had a 25-year mortgage. From 1979 to 2004, the average interest rate was 8.32%. With a 20% down payment, their monthly mortgage payment would be **$470.24** in 1979 dollars or **$1,921.64** in 2024 dollars after inflation.
The average detached house in Vancouver sale price in 1979 was $75,000 and grew to $550,000 in 2004 or a **633.333%** gain.
Now let's compare to now! Average detached house in Vancouver is 2.23 million dollars and interest rate is 4.75%. With 20% down payment, your average monthly mortgage payment would be **$10,123.41**.
Yeah those high-interest rates the Boomers temporarily faced are certainly comparable to what is happening right now...
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-210-x/2010000/t098-eng.htm
https://globalnews.ca/news/2531266/one-chart-shows-how-unprecedented-vancouvers-real-estate-situation-is/
https://wowa.ca/vancouver-housing-market
I'll skip the lecture about living within one's means, because cost of housing in 2024 absolutely destroys any ability to do that for folks who don't already have/own housing, but OP does have a point about the extras.
Our parents simply weren't eating out nearly as often, they certainly weren't getting food delivered unless it was pizza for a party, there were fewer subscriptions, families were still more likely to be watching "free" tv via antenna rather than subscribing to cable, they definitely didn't have an internet bill and probably didn't buy a computer, they probably didn't have a dishwasher, there was probably only one TV in the house and it was probably 10 years old already, they had a maximum of one phone bils, people bought new cars but average selling price was lower as percentage of income, and they were able to find reasonably priced used cars, and so on.
We've completely normalized spending on luxuries regardless of which class you fall into these days. It's something we should accept and account for when budgeting, and it may help you to rationalize cutting back a bit!
My parents still have the same refrigerator and oven that they got in the 90s. I think they even bought the oven used. My fridge is 8 years old and I was just told that its not repairable…
Life was simpler back then. My parents always said our lives are better and we are lucky, but that tone has changed, they agree future generation is ducked. It was their generation that was lucky, boomers. Young generation is only lucky In terms of technology and how it eased/enhanced certain things like entertainment, transport etc
There's some stuff missing from your numbers. Property taxes? Home insurance? How much was gas back in the day?
All this tells us is how much we're now paying for the privilege of some very basic bills. The equivalent of $69 per month on car insurance...is now like $260 per month on an older used vehicle. But you think it's Netflix ($9.99 per month?) making us poor?
Ya I think one thing that stands out is repair vs. replace culture. The instinct back then was to repair something that was broken and now its just thrown out and replaced.
Products are not built like they used to be. Electronics and appliances used to be designed with full schematics on the inside casing and parts that were individually replaceable. You could buy a fridge and expect it to last decades. Now you're lucky if you get 8-10 years.
Planned obsolescence has taken over to sell more product. Most things now have proprietary parts, non-replaceable batteries, and other obstructions to prevent the user from repairing it themselves. Not to mention they're now often made of cheap plastics and materials imported from China rather than more durable materials built to last.
Apple is the crown king of this. Propriety hardware on everything to prevent the user from "tampering" and software that's designed to freak out if it detects any kind of third-party repair on it. Even if you try to get things repaired by Apple themselves, the repair cost is usually so exorbitant that you're better off buying a new device entirely.
This isn't the consumer's fault.
My fridge died a few years ago and I tried to get it fixed. The guy showed up, said "Yeah, it'll be cheaper just to buy a new fridge." and then charged me like $100 for just walking in the door.
The idea that people don't repair things anymore because we're some consumption crazed society is putting the cart before the horse. We're a consumption crazed society because nothing lasts more than a few years and it's just cheaper and easier to replace it than fix it.
A big part of this is current wage driven. Need a repair on your heat pump, plumbing etc $100 bucks plus an hour. Whe you take cost/availability of parts and repair labpur, many things aren't worth repairing now.
You made some interesting points. I left home in the 70's from a lower middle class upbringing and my parents were similarly frugal throughout the 80's and 90's and owned a 4 bedroom bungalow on less income. We went on camping trips in a house trailer on summer vacations and other road trips. Luxuries like a big tv were rarely bought and no activities like hockey were paid for. You are right life was simpler then and average folks did not blow money all the time. The difference between then and now is people spend too much these days on wants not needs and use credit far too much instead of paying cash. Also housing and owning cars costs way more now than it did then in proportion to the average salary. You have to have a very disciplined long term mindset these days to ever get financially ahead whilecin those days all you had to do was live on a budget and not doing more than you earned.
Living on a budget is living on a budget whether it be 1970 or 2024. I think the main difference today is you have more voices in your head competing/wanting that budget and the value of housing. Value meaning what you get for your dollar of housing cost.
That is true but it is not quite that simple as you outlined when describing your parents life. I easily bought a 4 bedroom townhouse in Scarborough with my ex wife in the 80's when neither of us made more than 30k annually. We went out dining every week at least once or 2x and had an annual Caribbean vacation. Try doing that nowadays on modest salaries no matter how you scrimp and save. It is much harder now.
I don't think I made any suggestion that you can buy a house now just like you could in the 90's . My post says quite to opposite. In fact, I make specific mention that housing expectations (on price relative to size) should be lower now.
I remember my mom worked as an office clerk making double minimum wage in 1995 and we were renting a massive 3 bed 2 bath home in Langley on a single income (though my dad pitched in i'm not sure how much.)
Imprudent monetary policy wasn't as obvious in the 1990's. Now it would basically take a Liberal not to notice it. Much of the systemic inflation for things people finance, and most of the debt loads households are in now, are due to imprudent monetary policies.
The 1990's didn't really have any events that exposed this.
Ok, u must be kidding right. Look up your Canadian history! The 90s were the worst for public debt. Mulrouney had to do crazy things like the GST in 1991 to raise money. There was the longest recession in modern history 90-92, unemployment in the early 90s was 10% - 13%, I remember lots of my friends parents went thru rounds of layoffs and unemployment. Asian financial meltdown in 94 ...lots of turmoil financially in the 90's....
Monetary policy is not the same thing as fiscal policy.
Canada was in a ton of debt in the 90's, but the Bank of Canada did not buy government bonds and knock policy rates down to sub 1% to compensate for that. In the late 2000's and the early 2020's, they did.
Actually it was in the 1990's that they made it illegal for the BoC to buy bonds directly from the government because they saw the potential of something like today happening.
In 1997 I rented my first apartment. 1 bedroom (3 1/2) in Montreal for $485/month. My first job back then was at a Harvey's making minimum wage, I took home around $1,200/month. It was enough to pay rent, but groceries, get around Montreal and go out on weekends.
Times sure have changed.
OP is advocating that everyone time travel to 1990 to afford a place to live which in all honesty is probably easier than trying to afford a similar place today.
I have a similar background and grew up in Burnaby, except i do remember my mom buying starbucks in the 90s lol. My mom also put me and mybrother in all kinds of after school activities and day camps, and took us out to eat 3-4x per week. My dad was the sole breadwinner, earning a middle class income and we owned a duplex in Burnaby that they bought in 91. That would be impossible in todays world.
do people not understand supply and demand or something?
how can you reasonably expect to get the same house in the same area for the same price it was 20 years ago?
do you also expect to be able to buy land for cheap in prime areas?
scarce things get more expensive as population,materials, and the in demand items become scarce.
owning a home is not a right.
Utility bills are the best deal going! For $10 a day my whole family gets heated food, hot, shower, water, lights, hydro to charge phones and speakers and computers, temperature control to be warm or cool.
There are so many more perks. I would pay 5 times that for all these great things. Give up the $10 coffees and your on your way. Sometimes we need to work backwards from needs to wants. Everyone is so entitled to have the latest clothes/phone and shoes. Everyone wants to loom rich but make themselves poor. It's terrible. Society needs to do better.
Good post. Discretionary spending has certainly went crazy. People with minimum wage jobs owning a $1000+/iPhone that would eat up nearly 5% of their total yearly income is just wild. Especially when you can buy a Smartphone for $99 that does most of the same core things. That would be unimaginable in the 90's.
People ordering takeout (Ubereats) has gone insane. Most kids growing up in the 90's in would be more like once every month or two thing if you were lucky.
Getting content on your TV is way cheaper now than the 90's. My first apartment in the 90's I got a standard cable package. It was over $60/month. I was making $15/hour working in an office at the time. After awhile I realized that was madness so I cancelled it and stopped watching TV. Nowadays you can just get internet and get free content to stream for the most part, or get Netflix without breaking the bank.
I think the problem now is there's too much noise out there discouraging people from saving/investing. Some people just give up and convince themselves that putting aside $100/week isn't going to make a difference so they blow it on Amazon or UberEats instead. Plus half the people in their 20's are so risk averse that they're wasting their time putting money is GICs. When I was saving for a home starting out, I had 100% of my money invested in fairly safe but well performing stocks. This allowed me to buy a home more than twice as fast if I had not invested my savings and put it in GICs instead.
30 years ago, canada was behind. We only started to advance this last 15 years of unprecedented wealth.
Also, you have 10x increase to your land, you effectively have millions and you're complaining 🙄
You made it and you don't even realize. How much is the average person supposed to have? You now effectively have 2 million tax free.
You're complaining about a burn rate of 2-3% of net worth? 🙄
What most Canadians have failed to realize is how uncompetitive they are against the global economy.
You should be happy that you live in a country where your wealth was allowed to grow.
You can always sell everything and move to China. It's dirt cheap in some areas.
Your opinion should resonate to the ones who are complaining when drinking their Starbucks -while waiting for their Uber eats.Nice to read an intelligent(and obvious)take on keeping finances in check. You are going to be a great success my dear with that attitude! Bravo on sharing.
>In 1990... > >Core Utilities Expenses (phone+hydro+cable+gas): $170 (352) Sounds like they're paying the same amount as me for all these things...so clearly it was just as bad or worse back then...oh wait!...you said they were living in a 2500sqft single family home on a mortgage thats *in todays dollars* is half of what I'm paying in rent and I'm living in a 400sqft studio apartment...
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Utilities are most certainly not the same regardless of usage and housing type.
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What utilities are you talking about? Electricity for example is based on usage. Size of the home is irrelevant, same for things like Internet where the cost is standard regardless of home size.
We also pay the debt previous generations incurred. we are leaving a much larger debt to our kids, so it’s all good /s
debt begets debt, wealth begets wealth.
Big if true
>you’re paying for all this other random shit like “admin fees” and “delivery fees” (in Ontario), You are paying for all of those with any product. You think they'd deliver your products for free? The difference is that in Ontario utility companies have to list all those charges on the bill.
>You pay 350$/month for utilities in your condo. I pay 350$/month for utilities in my 1600 sq ft home. My friend pays 350$/month for utilities in his 2400 sq ft home. Something seems wrong there. Yes, because you completely made those numbers up. Utility bills absolutely increase or decrease based on usage. The fixed fees are a minor part of the bill, rest of it is variable and based on usage
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That's weird. Our condo is 770sqft, $50 bimonthly electric bill, $65 monthly Telus and that's it. Maybe you use electricity for heat? As our heat is included in strata fee.
No you are not the enemy, so why be so insecure about how someone responds to you on the interwebs and causing the negative replies and karma you seem to be getting. You are your worse enemy it seems, lol
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lmao not a all. Just saying you sound super insecure about.. well everything. I think you just like to argue and even troll a bit..something you are not even good at. lol
Offside.
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LOL!! Says the person arguing with everyone about everything.
Again, offside and not literal.
$350 for condo utilities sounds insane to me. I don’t pay anywhere near that. The delivery fees are always the vast majority of my hydro bill except maybe the months where the AC is running nonstop.
The original post included the phone and cable. To compare to today you would also include either a landline or your cell phone ($34-$50 per month) and Internet ($40-$100) per month.
That explains some of it but I still don’t pay anywhere near $350 all in (my cell and internet together are $80).
its legislation mandating condo fees have a reserve fund to pay for repairs...which isnt necessarily unreasonable. for example, our place we have around 470. 140 goes towards the rf, which in theory you should not have to pay for any repairs as this should be covered. Apparently engineers who do RFS are supposed to be good and anticipate costs, but in reality they are terrible at it and cant even anticipate what they will charge clients for the rfs in the future - literally ive seen them budget X for their services and then when it comes to hiring them again their costs are higher... If you cant anticipate your own fees, why should anyo e trust that you can anticipate the cost of other services in the future?
If you think you're paying too much for rent, why don't you live somewhere cheaper?
Like the Past!
somewhere cheaper than a 400sqft apartment? lmao
Yeah like not vancouver
Instead of giving that shit advice as if you’re some sort of genius for thinking it have you considered acknowledging that housing costs are super fucked up and it’s kind of a massive problem across the entire country that needs to be addressed?
When people do that in significant numbers, they drive up housing prices in the regions they move to. “Just move lolz” is not a solution to housing crisis, you just end up spreading the problem everywhere.
I expected to see this kind of comments downvoted on subs like r/ontario or r/toronto , but not at this sub. It's really as simple as making sacrifices but people don't want to be inconvenienced but are happy to bitch about everything.
I think you missed the comparison that what bought you a 2500 sqft house now buys you a 400 sqft apartment, even adjusted for inflation.
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Sounds like another excuse to me.
Here’s an excuse for you: my work is in Vancouver. I would like to live where I work and where I’m from. That’s a real shocker, eh?
His whole post is about growing up in Burnaby… which is now a 2 million dollar house lol. Can you imagine what the rent on that house is nowadays?
People are quick to point out technological innovations as examples of how lives are better today than decades prior. I like to point out that families survived and thrived when only one spouse needed to work. We've gained technology and lost time with our family and kids.
I agree My daughters are basically in camp all summer when I grew up I was at home playing with friends. Going to different places etc
Growing up my parents used to find excuses to get us out of their hair so they could have alone time. Now it feels like the exact opposite. It's currently 7pm here and I'm waiting on responses on my work laptop. My wife is still at the school and some district bullshit required meeting. I don't have any kids and honestly we are both thinking we will never have time to have any unless something drastic changes.
This is one of my big gripes. Technological advancement should lead to increases in productivity. Which you would hope would lead to increased wages and/or more time to spend with your loved ones. But it hardly feels that way. We got people picking up second jobs doing gigs like Uber to pay bills. And dual-income families that still struggle to find affordable housing without having to move out to the middle of nowhere. It's a travesty.
Excellent point. And I would argue that parents losing time with their kids and even having less kids is degrading society and producing less well adjusted young adults.
Damn those pesky working women....
That was my thought, too, but also... What if I could keep my great job and my husband could be home full-time and still make ends meet? What if we both could work part-time and not starve? I don't think it means regressing in terms of gender equity, necessarily.
So you're telling me that if your parents had spent money on Starbucks and Amazon, they would not have been able to afford their $150k house? They even had $1200 left over at the end of each month. They could have used that money on any crap they wanted, and still afforded their house. And that budget includes $500 of miscellaneous purchases. Are you telling me that none of those miscellaneous purchases were the 1990s equivalent of taking an Uber? I can't believe that after sharing how their home is now worth 13x more than it once was, while the average income for people with their type of jobs is now about double (roughly speaking), your conclusion is that anyone can do what they did, if they don't use Netflix or put their kids in soccer.
Given that it was the 1990s, OP’s parents could have spent $1000 a month on Magic Cards unadjusted for inflation and still be in the black each month.
Let's also remember that Nintendo, Game Boy, Playstation, Legos, etc. were also pretty expensive and coveted toys that (upper) middle class people bought their kids.
I never got any of those! Despite how many times I asked for them.
Yeah, and I bet you never had any avocado toast or Starbucks, which is why you're so financially secure today, right? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that your (upper) middle class upbringing, strong Asian family ties, and generational wealth allowed you the freedom and time to study, get a good paying job and save money probably by living at home.
A better case study would be OP’s parents. Who started from zero as a fresh immigrant with no ties no generational wealth. OP had “generational wealth”how about their parents? Come one now OP had 1 generation before him. Hardly generational wealth if you consider the literally generational of possible accumulation some Caucasian family have. With ties going back to colonial days. Beside how do you think generation 1 starts?
"Started from zero" is a common bullshit myth that immigrants like to spread to inflate their accomplishments. The fact is that the vast majority of immigrants - even in the 1990s - had requirements to have $$. Regardless of your skill set, you could not immigrate to Canada if you did not have enough $$ to support yourself (and any family you brought with you) for an entire year. Not assuming that you could land a job immediately. The only exception to this was government-sponsored immigrants (a tiny minority out of all immigrants) that technically received government loans to cover their living expenses for the first year of their arrival. That money had to be paid back. Do people "who come from nothing" have cash savings to support themselves for 1 year without working? No. Just look at all the Indian "students" who are working jobs instead of going to school.
You are not wrong most immigrant during the 90s is not poor but not all of them are balling out of control like you think they are. Vast majority of them are require to invest in bullshit business in the middle of nowhere. Some people spend all of their previous generation’s saving just to come here. Not to mentioned a lot of them do have to start from zero again to build credit and rebuild their career. Starting from Zero might be an exaggeration but it much closer to the truth for vast majority of immigrant. The crazy Chinese billionaire is the outlier esp in 1990 where China has just begun its reform. Tbh I think this hate for generational wealth specifically towards immigrants stem from the fact that a lot of people struggling today do have generations of tied to Canada. Their parent their parent grandparent, great great grand parent. They were here in Canada and did not manage to leave a lasting legacy for the current generation.
> You are not wrong most immigrant during the 90s is not poor but not all of them are loaded like you think they are. The vast majority of immigrants did not receive government sponsorship (i.e. loans) to immigrate. That was true in the 1990s and it's still true today. So yes, they did in fact have to be "loaded", or have private sponsors who raised the equivalent funds they lacked. I think most people would consider those who have enough $$ to not work for a year and support themselves to be "loaded". I'm not talking about investor visas, btw. I'm talking about the requirements for skills-based immigrants that met all points requirements. Regardless of your education/skills, if you did not prove you had $$, you were not granted a visa. Period. If you had private sponsors (such as church groups, friends or relatives) they had to put up the cash instead. Amazing how people have no fucking clue what the immigration system actually is, and then still insist on the media narrative that these are downtrodden people fleeing their home countries.
It’s sounds like it’s you that have no idea what the immigrant experience is. I happened to immigrate to Canada in the 90s with my parent. My parent came from a small village in China, starting working when they were 10. Fought their way to the cities and save up for 40 fucking years until they had enough money for just 1 year of living expensive in this first world country. They were not loaded by any means and even went bankrupt only 5 years into their life in Canada. They wanted their child to grow up in a society where 1 year of living expense = 40 years of slaving and penny pinching. To have a chance at a better life, even if it means it will take everything they have and a literally leap of faith into a foreign country where they barely speak the language, is a minority and have to rebuild their career from the beginning. China in 1990 is not the China of today. They weee literally just starting their reform not to mention 1997 Asian financial crisis hit and wipe out the alot of wealth. I know is hard to comprehend if you have never immigrate anywhere. Saving dwindle and can go to zero if you have no way of bringing in additional income, especially when you have a family to support which all have no income. Which a lot of immigrate faces when they step foot on a foreign soil as an adult with their best working years behind them. OP’s parent story is pretty on par with my parents and a lot of immigrants I’ve grow up with. It’s cute that you think 1 year of living expensive is loaded. You have no idea that this could literally mean several generation of saving for some immigrant just to be able to step foot on this land. And yes for majority of them. The first opportunity they had thought brought a house. No it’s not because they can foresee the incredible raise in value. They wanted their family to have root in a country where they never had root in. In a lot of these immigrant stories. They were not property tycoon, they were simply family that brought home for themselve and happen to ride the RE boom. Which by all account and looking at OP’s math. Is possible for all middle class living in Canada during that generation and even easier for earlier generation. It should be easy for your parent or your gran parent or your great grand parent. Remember 1 year of living expense was at least a decade of saving for us that immigrate during this time. Y’all had all the advantage, what happened? And why do you hate us instead of your previous generation? Growing up I never got to do the expensive things like sport, gaming, or parents with PTO or the yearly vacation and camping trips and fancy bbq in the backyard. We get a steak on our birthday and ration food for the rest of 364 days. So yea I don’t know here jones from next door. Your family has been here for generation and generation. We clear out my parent and his parents wealth just to be here. I dunno what generational wealth means. I’ve only been here one generation. Y’all have been here for many, what happened?
Generational wealth isn't parents who came with nothing and own a home. It's literally generations of building wealth. Like, your grandfather was a businessman during the first Trudeau era, your great uncle sat on the board of directors for Alcan, your mother grew up with a trust fund, your father was a successful dentist, and some semi-distant relative owns a castle in Quebec City.
Get black lotus, profit
People are missing the point of OPs post and focusing on minor details because they are made they can't afford a house. I agree with OP that in today's world things that were considered luxuries in our parents times are considered normal things. All the subscriptions, eating out as often, the number of vacations people are going on to different destinations, and all of those things add up and are just a few examples. Will cutting back on those luxuries mean you automatically can afford a house? No. Will cutting back on those luxuries mean you can have a more sustainable financial future? Yes.
I'll never understand these posts. Mate, his parents didn't spend money on Amazon because they didn't have it. Many goods were straight up not available. They didn't have instant unlimited access to endless entertainment either. Would you trade our luxuries of today to afford a house? Most people are far more comfortable now, even if they're in a smaller apartment. Just face it, its different now. That doesn't mean it's worse. Comparison is the thief of joy.
My parents sold their house 15 years ago but they have a comfortable retirement. And I think I mentioned specifiically that housing is an area where expectations should be lowered. A couple making 200K joint can still afford housing but it likely won't be a detached house in a major city. And no, not everyone can do what they did, some will actually do much better!
It always gets me how people are like, "everything is just fine, expectations just need to be lowered!" The lowered expectation is a problem. People get called entitled and deluded for saying, "We would have easily afforded a detached house with our salary; now we have to save really hard to afford a two bedroom condo, and we will buy it when we are 10 years older than that family in the 1990s did." Guess what, it SUCKS that that's the case! We're allowed to complain that the quality of life went down! If a dual income professional couple can barely afford a smaller, shittier home, then people who are poor have it much worse. Housing isn't just one area of a budget that randomly changed price with little effect. It's the foundational pillar of any budget. This isn't like saying, "a pair of shoes is now cheaper than it was in the 90s, isn't that something? But a phone is more expensive! Fun facts!" It's a huge deal.
There's only 40k detached houses in vancouver, for a population of 700k. Living in a detached house was the EXCEPTION, not the norm. Demanding to live in a detached becuase your parents lived in a detached, while ignoring the realities of the living situation in every single other major city in the world is the definition of entitlement.
In the 90s there was no such thing as work from home or work remotely. No such thing as ride share or car share. No such thing as passive income or online income. No such thing as online investing/trading. While you can argue that apples to apples on a price per sq ft basis your life is more expensive (which I will not argue and is clearly the case) I will say the levers and opportunities to make more money and generate income are vastly more than they have ever been in our lifetime.
"One job is no longer enough to make ends meet. But now it's easier than ever to get a second job, online or in the gig economy!" Cool!!!!! /s
The internet has made it easier than ever to sell your organs on the black market! Just nut up and grind, ya wimps
More options to try to make up a fraction of the ground that has been lost over the years. Fantastic.
I’m part of a couple making $200k joint income that bought a 3-bedroom semi-detached house in Toronto (city proper, not suburbs). We didn’t get money from parents for our down payment but used equity from the condo we sold. We do not have kids. When we got the condo, we sold the car and rented out our second room to a series of roommates. We use public transit to get to most places and have a car share membership for special circumstances. Now that we have a house, we still don’t have a car and had rented one of our bedrooms to a roommate for a year. NEITHER of these things would have been options our parents would have considered when they were our age. They actually question our decision to have roommates even though we’re in our late 30s and the idea of living without a car to them is unimaginable. We are seriously considering never having kids. There is a shortage of space in subsidized daycares which would have been the only way we would have been able to afford raising children. (We also don’t have parents living close by who could help us.) So in some ways, I feel like I’ve been making more sacrifices in my financial decisions compared to my parents. Making these kinds of financial decisions in order to own a house is not for everyone. To suggest that it’s just a matter of making a few sacrifices is pretty shortsighted, and this is coming from someone who has “made it”.
Median household monthly after tax income is $4,333 (2020) while your parents were $5,253 (2020 adj.). That's 18% less in income. Average family now spends $1,532 on groceries not $621 BC average insurance is $1,832 not $836 ...I could go on... then factor qualification creep the cost of those qualifications and the interest that goes with that, etc. Then look at the age they were making that money - we've treated our younger generations as uninformed cheap labour to be exploited not as families with the highest expenses at that point in their lives.
OP adjusted everything for inflation but didn't bother to adjust for price increases outside of inflation.
I mean, that was kind of his point. He wanted to show how much it cost back then in today's dollars. IE car insurance cost $800 in today's dollars when it's closer to $2k now.
Starting from a higher interest rate environment to a lower interest rate is easy mode. The house prices were lower as a result as the carrying costs were higher initially. As interest rates declined, carrying costs declined but wages marched upward AND the value of the house increased. Any boomer trying to give financial advice to younger generations is irrelevant... their experience will never match the experience of today's generation.
I disagree. Boomers grew up dealing with high inflation and many temptations to spend as technology improved. VCRs and laser disc players were over $1000 when I grew up. Saving money investing and budgeting is always relevant. You can learn from our mistakes and from what we did right. Instead you blame a whole generation for your woes and think we have nothing valuable to say. We learned from our parents who were not baby boomers as they were the ww2 generation. Every generation should listen to the previous one as they were young first.
People forget that the boomers were moving out of their parent's homes in 1965-1975ish and house prices doubled in that timeframe... That was the change from one income to afford suburbia to two. Look at all the apartment building built in the 70s. There was a CMHC deal on at the time where if you built an apartment building you got a chunk of cash from the federal government to do so.... Justin should check his dad's notes. He needs to do the same thing.
Very true. You needed 2 incomes to buy a house in the 80's or one big one. But now not even 2 incomes is enough in many cases.
Now you need two incomes and two side hustles lol
True. Listen as a boomer I own my own condo and feel very fortunate to have grown up in the last century when you could get ahead with careful planning and don't envy the youth of today who have it much tougher.
So you admit that your bullshit claims of saving money and budgeting is totally irrelevant then? People aren't lining up at food banks or living with room-mates until well into their 30s because they're buying the equivalent of fucking VCRs and disc players. They're doing those things because housing costs are too high and their income is too low. The WW 2 generation gave a shit about the welfare of their Boomer kids which is why they got the advantages that they did. The same is not true of the Boomer generation when it came to their own kids. Therein lies the difference.
Not sure what your rant means. I never said it was easy today to buy a home quite the opposite.And my sister is a boomer parent who has been wonderfully financially supportive to her 3 kids who now all having kids of their own and lots of her boomer friends are the same. Sounds like you are part of the blame game. Saving and budgeting is more relevant than ever because you cannot afford to not do that these days unless you are rich.
You can't save what you don't have, dude. If the vast majority of the Boomer generation behaved like you *claim* your sister does, their kids wouldn't have a lower standard of living. Yet that is true across the board, and it all started with the Boomers. There's a reason you were called the Me generation, and it's not for your ability to give a shit about what's beyond the end of your nose. That reputation exists for a reason, and it doesn't have anything to do with the moral character of younger people.
You are just dissing an entire generation. Doesn't accomplish anything blaming others.I have empathy for young folks but get irritated by those lashing out angrily as if everything is our fault. There are many complex factors why things are the way they are. A lot of boomers tried to do their best,raise families and make a living while contributing to society. I had a 40 year career trying to help youth with mental health issues in a treatment setting. I worked,got married, obeyed the laws. Sure there were boomers who have run selfish corporations that priotized money over people and were useless in government but that is not all of us. Every generation has good and bad.
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Imagine all the houses you can buy if you cut ALL your $10 monthly subscriptions, that's like $10-20 extra a month, in 40,000 months or 3333 years you can afford the average house.
Don’t forget to stop the avocado toast
And Starbucks
20 years ago my rent was under $800 in vancouver all in living alone. The same place now is around 4k. (Edit: I haven't lived there in 18 y but kept an eye on its rental price) That sums up a huge chunk of it. Edit. So... To be clear your response is that people should just live somewhere else? Ground breaking thinking buddy... I was outlining issues in my area very relevant to the discussion at hand. Politely you're misunderstanding what's going on here.
Yeah but Vancouver is one of the most expensive cities in the world. There are other places to live.
7 years ago my rent was 1755 in Toronto, now the same apartment is 2600
so the same house bought now at 5% would be $8630 monthly assuming 20% down. More than your parents combined total income. If i stop buying doodads and wazoos on amazon maybe my boss will give me a 300% raise so i can afford it.
Don't forget, if you cut out weekly avocado toast and cancel your Disney+ subscription, you could save an extra ($17*4 + $12 = $80) bucks a month!
> Candadian financial success for the average working family is still possible What's your definition of financial success? Surely not sitting on a home that has grown 10X?
Its whatever you want it to be. Its security. Its being able to retire at a decent age. Whether than means a big house or condo or trailer is up to you.
Then your comment about "financial success being possible" is useless. You first tell people to temper their expectations and then you say the dream can be whatever they want. I actually agree with the idea of tempering expectations. Your parents could not achieve the same financial success if they tried to replicate their experience in today's world. But if you call achieving lowered expectations a success, then yeah, you hit the nail on the head, I guess.
In 30 years the newer generation will likely be saying to same things about us and how easy we have it now. 90s at the time was considered to be a rough time. When looking back you see everything through rose coloured glasses.
it's cycles. A few generations ago, people had it way worse than we do now, during the WWs. Then came the good times and prosperity. The hard times will come again, and then the good times again. But the bad times don't HAVE to affect one portion of the population so much worse, if we plan appropriately. There's no reason to keep policy that encourages consolidation of assets to the wealth classes. In the coming hard times, those that don't own anything will be the serfs. If we can prevent the eventual "lords" from accumulating all of the assets in the meantime, we can at least reduce the hardship that many will experience.
Capitalism isn’t perfect, by any means, but it’s infinitely better than the alternatives.
There aren't discrete choices to pick from - there is no "pure capitalism" and "pure socialism"; we have aspects of various economic systems in Canada. Why do we shame the hoarding of Lysol wipes during Covid? It's not illegal, but it's a terrible thing for society. We need to be able to look at our existing system and identify pinch points based on the crises we're experiencing. I wouldn't be advocating for this approach if there was no housing crisis. But there is. And it's crazy to just keep doing what we're doing because we've let it go on for decades; sadly for us, we didn't grow Canada's productivity at the same time, and now we're terribly off-balance. The re-balancing won't be pleasant and will change things we've grown to rely on (investment pptys to grow wealth), but the alternative of circling the drain can't be our default choice just because other solutions may not be capitalistic in nature. There is no profitable solution to creating affordable housing.
I am indeed richer than we were then my parents were then because of said roughness and mistakes that were made by our family. It wasn't obvious what lay ahead either.
Every generation has to be realistic. We now on average are unlikely to have as much as our parents had in terms of wealth. A small minority may have more if they are in the higher levels of earnings. Like become plastic surgeons while parents worked at GM for example. Success is personally measured. Having a big house,a boat, 2 cars and annual big out of country vacations is not likely for most if that is how success is defined. But most of us surely do not expect that with average jobs no?
It sounds like we perceive our current the environment the same way. Your OP seemed to suggest that with belt-tightening, people today can achieve similar to what your parents did. What lifestyle would you speculate that people today could have, with jobs like your parents had? You're right that we shouldn't expect to have a materially-wealthier lifestyle than our parents, but that's a new trend, and it is at odds with "achieving a dream", because I don't think anyone's definition of a dream is working more and having less than their parents.
I think he is just stating how his parents lived. Do not see where he says we can do better than that today with belt tightening in fact it was easier then to do that and still buy a house. He is comparing the 90's with today.
Apologies - I had thought you were OP.
I was suggesting bugeting and living within your means is the same whether its 1990 or 2024. I understand its harder now even for me based on the factors I suggested. I make mention that housing costs are an outlier. Heck I didnt even say my parents were very successful, I consider them somewhat successfull but I have high standards.
I agree with you. A comfortable retirement not in debt and security while owning a condo or house is how I define success. Not sure why you are being downvoted here unless you have upset a bunch of snowflakes.
More like a bunch of TikTok finance bros
It's crazy seeing how much more than inflation everything on your list has risen, it really makes me question how exactly inflation makes sense the way it's calculated. Sure electronics, and clothes and stuff you buy occasionally has stayed static, but what does that matter when the needs/near needs like food, car insurance, utilities and housing have gone up so much more. I think it's important to remember that life was a lot simpler back then, the internet didn't exist, but so many of things that are essential now weren't necessary then, and make the internet more important. So many more forms to fill out for everything. So much bureaucracy has been added to our world, and then they wonder why stress levels are so high. >No Amazon/Online/Starbucks/Cafe buying Obviously no online, but delivery services were very common back in the 80's milk man, consumers distributing and sears catalogue shopping, even beer deliveries a bit earlier. >No spending on 'activities' for kids and minimal entertainment spend Part of the difference is there were so many more opportunities for kids non organized activities back then. It felt like there were more kids on my block growing up, then there are in my entire neighbourhood as my kids have grown up.
Because young families with kids can no longer afford a house in your neighbourhood. They are jammed into apartments and condos.
I grew up in an apartment in Eastern Europe. My childhood was literally going outside to the playground and coming home for lunch/dinner. You'll literally go to jail if you let your 8 year old kids do that here on their own.
CPI is a fundamentally flawed metric that hides the reality of how much less purchasing power we have today than we did 35 years ago. A true measure of inflation that takes things like housing and education into account runs more like 7% per year. We are getting poorer every year.
The system is broken. Government is addicted to printing money and deficit spending it, which steals purchasing power from the average citizen who can barely save let alone earn investment interest at the rate it is being inflated away. Nominal value increases but actual value decreases. New dollars are being created at such a fast rate that they eventually flood the market where an oversupply of dollars purchases and under supply of goods and services, driving up the price. It’s economics. Inflation is the outcome of uncontrolled monetary inflation.
my parents are in their 70s. they said they paid their house off in a bit over 4 years (new build) and never had a mortgage from 1977 on. they did their life differently from their friends. their friends got married and had kids (early 20s). my parents went with the idea of "live first, then have kids", so my brother and i didnt show up til '79 & 81. so they were early 30's. im not sure what bills were, but we never went 'without'. always nice vacations, good quality household items, tons of activities, lots of dining out, etc. the one thing that im often told by my mom... she likes to brag that she was getting GIC rates upwards of 18% in the early/mid 80s.
My parents tried saying to us that we have a harder time getting by because of cell phones bills- I asked her how much she and my dad smoked. Shocked pikachu face. I make the same as my Dad did from 1989- 2010 (and even now) but they bought their first house (4 bed, 3 bath, multilevel with a separate garage) for 90k, to my 700 sqft condo for $250k. It’s disgusting how expensive life costs now and how much wages have stagnated. They would have been sick to spend $250k on a house at the same income level yet a comparable property to their home sits at easily 900k where I live. Ugh!!!!!
This is an unpopular opinion probably, but part of the reason that life is so expensive is because people aren’t *actually* reacting to it. This doesn’t apply to everything, like let’s say groceries, which people need… but there are a lot of things that have gotten out of control because people can’t just say “no.” The automotive industry. I bought my truck 8 years ago for 45k. Now this truck new off the lot is 75k. But everywhere I look people are buying brand new trucks, jeeps, luxury SUVs, etc. “omg that’s soooo expensive! Are you kidding me?! Ok here take my money.” A new iPhone? Over $1000. Why? Because people line up out the door to buy the new one the day they come out. If people didn’t pay these prices, the prices would come down or the company wouldn’t sell anything. SOME of the cost of our lives is self-inflicted because people have zero self control
Rent in Quebec is a good exemple of this. Rent is partielly control, as is not suppose to go higher then a certain form+calcul give. And the price up is only 1x each month but check this. Rent is 600$, then annual augmentation comme let's add 100$, (which put the rent at 700$) then the old tenant need to quit, new one come, new renter come, another price hile let's say 950$. And then the annual augmentation again that put it at 1050...while the rent should be around 700$ but people don"t file, don't complain so here goes the price
Yeah, OP kinda failed on the lecturing, but the fact of the matter is our parents simply weren't eating out nearly as often, there were fewer subscriptions, folks were still more likely to be watching "free" tv via antenna rather than subscribing to cable, there was probably only one TV in the house, they didn't have 2 or more phone bills, people bought new cars but average selling price was lower as percentage of income (the $60k truck with 5 seats is a choice!), and so on. Now, how much money could be saved if you threw out the restaurants/food delivery/subscriptions??? I'm not sure and I doubt it would be as impactful as "simply lowering rent". But the extra, optional costs there in many peoples lives, and it's a luxury whether we want to admit or not.
> A new iPhone? Over $1000. Why? Because people line up out the door to buy the new one the day they come out. To be fair.. an iPhone replaced a laptop for a huge chunk of people. 10-15 years ago you'd spend $1000-2000 on a laptop every 3 years because it would break or go obsolete that fast. Now you can buy a mid-tier laptop for $900 for doing occasional taxes and complicated paperwork and have it last you 6+ years. But most of your daily computering can now be done on the phone. Also, you can buy a mid-tier Android phone for like $200 and still have it last 2+ years. > If people didn’t pay these prices, the prices would come down or the company wouldn’t sell anything. To be fair, if companies as a group decide to only sell expensive stuff, you don't have much choice. You can buy cheap $15k new cars in Europe and Asia. These literally don't exist here anymore. Hell, you can't even get a decent used car for less than $12k now. It's not technically price fixing, but it's basically price fixing from a consumer perspective.
if these boomers ever admitted it's bullshit now then they have to admit they did nothing to earn their wealth. and we can't have that now. they are all geniuses after all.
1450 in (todays dollars )mortgage payment for a HOUSE and youre blaming a cell phone bill/ starbucks? Let me guess they gave some of their 2M dollar sale to help you out, and now you dont understand the problem for others
>Monthly Mortgage payment on a house: ~$700 @ 111-15% interest!! (1450) (new 2500 ft house bought in Burnaby in 1988 for $150k, now worth ~ $2M) Well there you go. 🤑🤑🤑🤑
Not sure how your conclusion follows from what you stated previously. There is no getting around the fact that income vs. house prices were FAR more in line back then, and consequently people had a higher standard of living. No amount of fiscal discipline or "simpler life" can polish that turd. No, ordering an Uber on your phone instead of just using a payphone to call a taxi and browsing the internet while you're at the grocery store is not a quality of life issue. I don't know why people keep harping on this dumbass point. People aren't lining up at food banks because they're blowing their money on Ubers and cell phones. They're lining up at food banks because they don't earn enough money to cover their living expenses.
I think you're conflating two factors: consumption and skyrocketing cost of living. As someone who's pretty frugal and earning in the range of your parents together, living alone I can't afford luxuries and the quality of life they had. I don't use Uber, Starbucks, Apple, or Costco and use Amazon very sparingly. So no, it's not the former one, it's most definitely the latter.
And by the way, the cost of living drives consumption up. Look up the lipstick effect. When people can't afford big ticket items, they turn to buying small trinkets like skincare or takeout to make themselves feel better. Small item consumption is highest in depressions and recessions.
Yep, if you calculate that you can only save up a down-payment if you are frugal for 12 years, then it's very likely you'll break that frugality to buy an avocado toast once in a while. If someone told me I could live frugally for 3 years and buy a house, I would be much more able to do it.
Yeah; when people give up on ever owning a home, they might buy a nice truck at the big ticket level. I have neighbours that live in the basement units of my rental building -- which are the ones converted from storage, not exactly great units -- and they seem to have starbucks and other delivery food by their door a fair bit. it's on the way to parking, so I see it fairly often, but starbucks is about 10 minutes walk...Wendy's is 15 and people get that delivered. You really see the inefficient consumption that happens when basics get really expensive. May as well splurge on things when they feel cheap compared to groceries.
AKA doom spending. "I'll never afford a house whether I save or not, so I may as well Uber Eats avocado toast every day."
I'll counter this by saying.... today there are ways to make income that were not even possible in the 90s....in the 90's you had a 9-5 job or part time job or nothing. Today you can be a delivery driver, any multitude of remote/gig type work, online trading, the notion of multiple income streams was not possible in the 90s. Do you want to work more to get more? By "quality of life" if you are comparing house sq footage apples to apples thats a lost battle. Remember, there was no remote work/WFH back then. There was no ride sharing or car sharing. Investing required you call up your broker and do a trade for a fee. So conversely there's way more levers now then what parents had to achieve financial success.
> Do you want to work more to get more? Sure. But no one wants to work more to get less than what others were given for the same or less work. Young people have very good reason to be angry about that. Hard work demands a reward for the hard work. But we've reached a point where an average person's birth year and parent's property value says more about their financial success than any of their actual work or accomplishments. Why would a young person want to participate in this system? But hey I guess its all ok because we can lower our expectations. We can all raise our families in one bedroom condos and moonlight as uber drivers on top of our full time dayjobs and pretend like this is normal.
Yup. Thats the way the world works buddy. The guys older than me are richer than me. The guys older than you are richer than you. And you're right....none of us did anything to earn it except for being born when we were born and everything was just given to us!
That's not how it was though, that's the problem. You're being obtuse to my point. It used to be the case that parents left a better world and quality of life for their children, who then left a better quality of life for their children, and so on. This was made possible as we advanced and innovated as a society. This was true up until the boomer generation. Now, something ugly has changed in the social contract where now young people are being left with a significantly worse quality of life than their parents, and it may be even worse for the next generation. This is not "how the world works", its an anomaly to be concerned about. Quality of life should not regress unless there's a war or some other catastrophe. You or I don't deserve less than what the older generations did. My eight year old nephew doesn't deserve less than me. We should be striving to make society better, not accept its decline with our heads in the sand. Its pathetic.
Nothing is ever granted. At a personal level, the sense of entitlement that you deserve something better just because is a recipe for failure. I never heard of this concept of social contract all I cared about was doing something valuable for society, making money for me, my family, saving, investing and frankly getting richer so I can buy the things we wanted and needed. Has it worked out OK for me? Ya sure I guess but certainly I didn't ever once whine about it I just grinded it out, head down and worked at it and still working just like what my parents did for 30 years. Oh but wait...you thought life was easy.....
I don't disparage hard work. I worked since I was 17, have a STEM graduate degree, and now work a great job making more money than most people. I don't want handouts. I think people should work hard, but they should also be proportionately rewarded for that hard work. If a person wants to work 60-80 hours a week, good for them, but they should not *need* to work that to afford less than what a person working 40 or less hours a week could get 20 years ago. No one should want that, least of all parents bringing their children into this world. We should be excited for the future, not terrified that our kids are going to struggle through poverty. I'll leave you with a question to consider, not expecting to change your mind. How bad does it need to get for the majority of the population before you would acknowledge that there's a societal problem? Hypothetically, If 99% of the population was living in abject poverty at the expense of 1% living in luxury and controlling all the wealth, would you still be saying that the 99% "just need to work harder"?
You could easily pick up a part-time retail/restaurant job on the side. Sure, it's probably less flexible than driving Uber, but it was (proportionally) more money as well. You also had a lot more job security in your primary job, whereas now, everyone I know is basically living in constant feat of layoffs, restructuring, or going obsolete in the job market. If you know your job would still be there 1, 3, 10 years from now, it's a lot easier to plan than thinking you may be laid off anytime.
To me, both your initial point and this one reflect your belief in meritocracy and the just world. Perhaps, you want to showcase your parents as hardworking people who earnestly got what they deserved. "Work hard and reap what you sow." I don't oppose that they were hardworking people, but the world had shifted to a game much more rigged against the player. In today's world, an immigrant from a developing country will not land and get a 9-5 office job with benefits. They will drive Uber, where they get a tip ($1 per every $10 if they are lucky) and Uber takes 90% of their trip pay. Yes, you can be a TikTok/OF influencer and earn money that way or be a day trader. I wouldn't want those jobs. I don't think today's gig economy offers opportunities large or stable enough to offset the bias of the cost of living. I actually think it's the opposite. We used to be workers, in the gig economy we are the product.
Try being my parents as the first wave of Asian Immigrants in 1970s/1980s Canada dealing with all the crap they had to deal with. The problem now is an International Student comes to Canada hoping to get rich quick, get a fancy car and nice house after 2 years and complaining they want to go home. This is not how it works...
They could afford a house and a family on a after tax income of 6217 in todays dollars I can afford rent, or a mortgage on a 1 bedroom 30 year old condo with a 40% down payment with the same after tax income....
So what’s better? Working 40 hours a week, go home to a house (detached with a yard), a family, food on the table, two cars on the driveway or working 60-80 hours a week to be able to afford a small condo or rent with a car, probably no or very few kids or a pet? We weren’t meant to work ourselves to death just to live - that’s not living. Also, being a delivery driver isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be, you use up your car for pennies.
25 years ago, I was working a minimum wage job ($7/hr) and was renting a bachelor apartment for $825 (hydro extra) that I shared with my then-partner. No air conditioning, no in-suite laundry, no car, no cable, no internet at home (used public library), no nothing. I don't think I bought a single piece of clothing for like 5 years. Crazy times indeed. Education saved me (thanks OSAP).
Not sure what your point of this post is OP. There are already tons of data point out there that clearly show increase in housing cost begins to greatly outpace income starting in 2015. I’ll let you figure out one key change Canada had in 2015 that might have contributed to housing cost going hockey stick in the last 10 years cumulating in massive inflation of everything in last couple of years. (Hint: it’s not Uber eats)
I recently found our tax returns from 1993. My husband and I combined made $32,000 (past Mr. & Mrs. desdemona\_d would not be able to fathom what future Mr. & Mrs. desdemona\_d are making now). At the time we were early 20s, living in Alberta and had one child. I remember our rent was $525 for a two bedroom apartment, we drove a beater car and were trying to survive on $50 a week for groceries (including diapers & formula - eek!)
You were not middle-class if you had overseas vacations. You were upper middle class.
Fair enough. However, money was always tight. I remember my parents fought about money probably about spending it on lavish overseas vacations. Keep in mind middle class in Vancouver is not the same as middle class in Moose Jaw....
Your family was top 10% income. Overseas vacations were more expensive, so it could have made it feel like money was more tight but that was by choice.
Sorry 'bout typos and all.. I can't say I remember when my parents had to sell their first house right after I was born since the metal price crash of '89 pretty much destroyed our mining town economy. That and the 15% interest rates. My first vivid memory is us moving back to that town , after a 6 year exodus working in the far north, in an appartment building as they were pulling planks off the boarded windows... or moving to live with my grandma shortly thereafter to be able to save even more money. Obviously they were not making multiples of the average salary even though they both had a profession. We never lacked anything and honestly I didnt even know my dad was working so much overtime to make sure we had everything we needed...I thought he loved it ! ( I still think he did, workaholic much). I still feel bad for not helping more around the house with chores. I couldnt fathom having jordans or anything of such, never even came to mind. We had 1 family vacation out of country as a family to a cheaper destination in our whole life and it's still a very vivid memory for all of us. What I do remember is despite all this my parents were eventually able to save enough money to build a house by themselves. When my dad was done working he would go to this plot of land and work until late night...built the damn thing by himself, took two years. They sold right before covid ( poor timing ) to move to a bigger city and now for them these rent increases are starting to dig into the retirement budget. They really got unlucky timing at the start and end of their careers... What I can tell you has changed is back then people with average salaries could still turn things around and provide a great childhood to their kids and save up enough for retirement if they were smart. Today I don't see how anyone could make it work. You say it's possible if you make the right decisions... I think this is coming from a position of priviledge. I was lucky enough my parents sacrificed for me to be succesful and then to be comfortable in retirement but I don't see someone who hasnt had some form of support have the same odds of success now as they did 20-30 years ago. Let alone be able to save up for a decent retirement. I can, I do but for **** sake I understand those who currently struggle. I just can't get over the prices of things when we go out grocery shopping or just want to go out on an activity/ do some renos on the house. The social contract has been broken...or will be very soon. Those who genuinly want to try are not coming in on a leveled playfield. The many are losing for the priviledge of a few. I do my part, I still live in the province I was born into and want to keep paying my taxes here to the system which allowed me to have a great career but lately it's been getting tougher to look at where our country is heading and still think the system works for all. I think those who can make it should consider how others are supposed to make it for a second. Back then you could have a career in retail and still make ends meet if you were frugal... can you imagine living of minimum wage now ? And mind you, I say this and I am not an advocate to raise minimum wage, it's not the solution. You can't keep raising the floor hoping the ladder gets shorter.
Also a huge part of spending today is based in the availability and diversity of goods that you can buy. In 1990, you don't have smartphones or app subscriptions. You don't have online shopping at your fingertips or social media that pushes products at you multiple times a day. Laptops, airpods, .. heck even supplements, beauty products and other self care all has blown up. Flights are "affordable" as well. When I was growing up, "big" purchases like a TV or large appliance would be a very infrequent thing. Nowadays, I see people get new phones regularly or something else that can easily put you back 1k.
The phone argument is such BS, I work in tech and make decent money and I don't know anyone that gets a new phone every year. My husband refuses to replace his 4yo one because it still has an audio jack... I could buy 3 Iphones a month for what a mortgage payment on a Condo in our city costs and that is a massive problem when the average income here is $70k a year. Housing costs are dwarfing whatever silly goods/apps people are buying for the most part.
I know many people who get it every 2 years (new phone w/ new plan). In fact they make it so that it seems reasonable for most people so that they can sell their 2 year phone (probably for a few hundred) and get a new one while keeping their tab/plan payments high. Every year might be an exaggeration. PS totally understand about the audio jack... hated getting rid of that in mines. Regarding the mortgage/housing portion, while consumer purchases are definitely a smaller part of budgets, it is still quite important to keep track of. A lot of smaller purchase decisions lead to a lower budget for housing. Going with cheaper phone plans, fewer subscriptions, eating out one time fewer per week can make a big impact on your purchasing power (today, not so much, but it was definitely the case 5+ years ago).
I replied something similar in a different thread the other day. Growing up back then for most people there were never any trips anywhere or you would go on 1 or 2 trips your entire life. We went on 1 vacation to Florida my entire childhood and I'm pretty sure my grandpa paid. All of my parents furniture was hand me downs from their parents which they had had since college. You ate at a restaurant like 2 times a year. All the food at home was whatever was the cheapest. All my clothes were hand me downs. New shoes every couple years. Everyone I knew had a lot of the exact same things we did. Like same exact house phone, appliances, blankets, chairs, toys. There was basically no choice with anything. We had to watch every dollar and nothing was ever for certain. I feel like most boomers weren't living some lavish lifestyle. They had a house they didn't fully own and nothing else from my memory.
IMO its a generational thing as well... especially with kids who are turning 18 right now and grew up only knowing this well-connected world. I agree with you on so many points. Vacations were truly a luxury. Most getaways were short road trips (ex. camping) or trips to the local beach. We did enjoy food, but it was often a birthday or celebration of some kind. Takeout was usually a cheap pizza. You would go into a mall to just hang and 99% of the time would only buy something from the food court. I think parents in my generation were really of that saving mindset, where I see spending becoming more of a habit now.
Yeah but many people are impulsive today having $6 lattes at Starbucks and ordering take out instead of cooking at home. I know people that waste over $ 100 a week on shit like that.
Dude I used to waste a lot more than $100 a week on stuff like that. More like $3-400/week on stupid eating out and coffees, snacks. It's pretty easy when you live DT and are out a lot.
Yes I agree. In our family, it felt like everything we bought like a new TV was intentional and saved up for. The time from wanting to getting was longer. Now in a click you can have some Amazon package show up in your door that night.
You could still go to a store and walk out with a TV in the 90s. People can still wait before making a large purchase with online shopping.
Yes, what seems to be the an accepted “standard” lifestyle has changed. Many things that where luxuries in the past are common goods. But many can’t afford it, so they feel they are doing worse. It’s easier to be content with less when you don’t have pressure from social media and your peers.
OP said their parents bought a house in the late 70s so let's say 1979 when interest rates were 12.10% and they had a 25-year mortgage. From 1979 to 2004, the average interest rate was 8.32%. With a 20% down payment, their monthly mortgage payment would be **$470.24** in 1979 dollars or **$1,921.64** in 2024 dollars after inflation. The average detached house in Vancouver sale price in 1979 was $75,000 and grew to $550,000 in 2004 or a **633.333%** gain. Now let's compare to now! Average detached house in Vancouver is 2.23 million dollars and interest rate is 4.75%. With 20% down payment, your average monthly mortgage payment would be **$10,123.41**. Yeah those high-interest rates the Boomers temporarily faced are certainly comparable to what is happening right now... https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-210-x/2010000/t098-eng.htm https://globalnews.ca/news/2531266/one-chart-shows-how-unprecedented-vancouvers-real-estate-situation-is/ https://wowa.ca/vancouver-housing-market
I'll skip the lecture about living within one's means, because cost of housing in 2024 absolutely destroys any ability to do that for folks who don't already have/own housing, but OP does have a point about the extras. Our parents simply weren't eating out nearly as often, they certainly weren't getting food delivered unless it was pizza for a party, there were fewer subscriptions, families were still more likely to be watching "free" tv via antenna rather than subscribing to cable, they definitely didn't have an internet bill and probably didn't buy a computer, they probably didn't have a dishwasher, there was probably only one TV in the house and it was probably 10 years old already, they had a maximum of one phone bils, people bought new cars but average selling price was lower as percentage of income, and they were able to find reasonably priced used cars, and so on. We've completely normalized spending on luxuries regardless of which class you fall into these days. It's something we should accept and account for when budgeting, and it may help you to rationalize cutting back a bit!
My parents still have the same refrigerator and oven that they got in the 90s. I think they even bought the oven used. My fridge is 8 years old and I was just told that its not repairable…
Friend, I just had to replace our mid-priced Samsung dishwasher after just 4 years. Hopefully by spending more on a Bosch we get a better experience
Life was simpler back then. My parents always said our lives are better and we are lucky, but that tone has changed, they agree future generation is ducked. It was their generation that was lucky, boomers. Young generation is only lucky In terms of technology and how it eased/enhanced certain things like entertainment, transport etc
There's some stuff missing from your numbers. Property taxes? Home insurance? How much was gas back in the day? All this tells us is how much we're now paying for the privilege of some very basic bills. The equivalent of $69 per month on car insurance...is now like $260 per month on an older used vehicle. But you think it's Netflix ($9.99 per month?) making us poor?
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Ya I think one thing that stands out is repair vs. replace culture. The instinct back then was to repair something that was broken and now its just thrown out and replaced.
Products are not built like they used to be. Electronics and appliances used to be designed with full schematics on the inside casing and parts that were individually replaceable. You could buy a fridge and expect it to last decades. Now you're lucky if you get 8-10 years. Planned obsolescence has taken over to sell more product. Most things now have proprietary parts, non-replaceable batteries, and other obstructions to prevent the user from repairing it themselves. Not to mention they're now often made of cheap plastics and materials imported from China rather than more durable materials built to last. Apple is the crown king of this. Propriety hardware on everything to prevent the user from "tampering" and software that's designed to freak out if it detects any kind of third-party repair on it. Even if you try to get things repaired by Apple themselves, the repair cost is usually so exorbitant that you're better off buying a new device entirely. This isn't the consumer's fault.
My fridge died a few years ago and I tried to get it fixed. The guy showed up, said "Yeah, it'll be cheaper just to buy a new fridge." and then charged me like $100 for just walking in the door. The idea that people don't repair things anymore because we're some consumption crazed society is putting the cart before the horse. We're a consumption crazed society because nothing lasts more than a few years and it's just cheaper and easier to replace it than fix it.
A big part of this is current wage driven. Need a repair on your heat pump, plumbing etc $100 bucks plus an hour. Whe you take cost/availability of parts and repair labpur, many things aren't worth repairing now.
Goods nowadays are not meant to be fixed……… it’s a feature by design
You made some interesting points. I left home in the 70's from a lower middle class upbringing and my parents were similarly frugal throughout the 80's and 90's and owned a 4 bedroom bungalow on less income. We went on camping trips in a house trailer on summer vacations and other road trips. Luxuries like a big tv were rarely bought and no activities like hockey were paid for. You are right life was simpler then and average folks did not blow money all the time. The difference between then and now is people spend too much these days on wants not needs and use credit far too much instead of paying cash. Also housing and owning cars costs way more now than it did then in proportion to the average salary. You have to have a very disciplined long term mindset these days to ever get financially ahead whilecin those days all you had to do was live on a budget and not doing more than you earned.
Living on a budget is living on a budget whether it be 1970 or 2024. I think the main difference today is you have more voices in your head competing/wanting that budget and the value of housing. Value meaning what you get for your dollar of housing cost.
That is true but it is not quite that simple as you outlined when describing your parents life. I easily bought a 4 bedroom townhouse in Scarborough with my ex wife in the 80's when neither of us made more than 30k annually. We went out dining every week at least once or 2x and had an annual Caribbean vacation. Try doing that nowadays on modest salaries no matter how you scrimp and save. It is much harder now.
I don't think I made any suggestion that you can buy a house now just like you could in the 90's . My post says quite to opposite. In fact, I make specific mention that housing expectations (on price relative to size) should be lower now.
And why is it acceptable to have lower (significantly) expectations? Why should we applaud having lower standards than in previous decades?
I remember my mom worked as an office clerk making double minimum wage in 1995 and we were renting a massive 3 bed 2 bath home in Langley on a single income (though my dad pitched in i'm not sure how much.)
Imprudent monetary policy wasn't as obvious in the 1990's. Now it would basically take a Liberal not to notice it. Much of the systemic inflation for things people finance, and most of the debt loads households are in now, are due to imprudent monetary policies. The 1990's didn't really have any events that exposed this.
Ok, u must be kidding right. Look up your Canadian history! The 90s were the worst for public debt. Mulrouney had to do crazy things like the GST in 1991 to raise money. There was the longest recession in modern history 90-92, unemployment in the early 90s was 10% - 13%, I remember lots of my friends parents went thru rounds of layoffs and unemployment. Asian financial meltdown in 94 ...lots of turmoil financially in the 90's....
Monetary policy is not the same thing as fiscal policy. Canada was in a ton of debt in the 90's, but the Bank of Canada did not buy government bonds and knock policy rates down to sub 1% to compensate for that. In the late 2000's and the early 2020's, they did. Actually it was in the 1990's that they made it illegal for the BoC to buy bonds directly from the government because they saw the potential of something like today happening.
The only thing that was better in the 90s was that grunge was cool which meant you could be/look poor and it wouldn’t be an issue.
In 1997 I rented my first apartment. 1 bedroom (3 1/2) in Montreal for $485/month. My first job back then was at a Harvey's making minimum wage, I took home around $1,200/month. It was enough to pay rent, but groceries, get around Montreal and go out on weekends. Times sure have changed.
Early 90s also meant no cell phone, no internet, no streaming services, no Prime subscription, but you would have a couple newspapers delivered.
OP is advocating that everyone time travel to 1990 to afford a place to live which in all honesty is probably easier than trying to afford a similar place today.
So your telling me if I save 20-50 a month I can afford the average house in *checks math*, 1000-3000 years?
I have a similar background and grew up in Burnaby, except i do remember my mom buying starbucks in the 90s lol. My mom also put me and mybrother in all kinds of after school activities and day camps, and took us out to eat 3-4x per week. My dad was the sole breadwinner, earning a middle class income and we owned a duplex in Burnaby that they bought in 91. That would be impossible in todays world.
do people not understand supply and demand or something? how can you reasonably expect to get the same house in the same area for the same price it was 20 years ago? do you also expect to be able to buy land for cheap in prime areas? scarce things get more expensive as population,materials, and the in demand items become scarce. owning a home is not a right.
Utility bills are the best deal going! For $10 a day my whole family gets heated food, hot, shower, water, lights, hydro to charge phones and speakers and computers, temperature control to be warm or cool. There are so many more perks. I would pay 5 times that for all these great things. Give up the $10 coffees and your on your way. Sometimes we need to work backwards from needs to wants. Everyone is so entitled to have the latest clothes/phone and shoes. Everyone wants to loom rich but make themselves poor. It's terrible. Society needs to do better.
This cant be real. Another we ate too many avocado toast post so thats why we cant afford that 2M dolla house ur parents own lololol
His first observation is the exact opposite of what you said.
his comments say otherwise
Good post. Discretionary spending has certainly went crazy. People with minimum wage jobs owning a $1000+/iPhone that would eat up nearly 5% of their total yearly income is just wild. Especially when you can buy a Smartphone for $99 that does most of the same core things. That would be unimaginable in the 90's. People ordering takeout (Ubereats) has gone insane. Most kids growing up in the 90's in would be more like once every month or two thing if you were lucky. Getting content on your TV is way cheaper now than the 90's. My first apartment in the 90's I got a standard cable package. It was over $60/month. I was making $15/hour working in an office at the time. After awhile I realized that was madness so I cancelled it and stopped watching TV. Nowadays you can just get internet and get free content to stream for the most part, or get Netflix without breaking the bank. I think the problem now is there's too much noise out there discouraging people from saving/investing. Some people just give up and convince themselves that putting aside $100/week isn't going to make a difference so they blow it on Amazon or UberEats instead. Plus half the people in their 20's are so risk averse that they're wasting their time putting money is GICs. When I was saving for a home starting out, I had 100% of my money invested in fairly safe but well performing stocks. This allowed me to buy a home more than twice as fast if I had not invested my savings and put it in GICs instead.
30 years ago, canada was behind. We only started to advance this last 15 years of unprecedented wealth. Also, you have 10x increase to your land, you effectively have millions and you're complaining 🙄 You made it and you don't even realize. How much is the average person supposed to have? You now effectively have 2 million tax free. You're complaining about a burn rate of 2-3% of net worth? 🙄 What most Canadians have failed to realize is how uncompetitive they are against the global economy. You should be happy that you live in a country where your wealth was allowed to grow. You can always sell everything and move to China. It's dirt cheap in some areas.
Your opinion should resonate to the ones who are complaining when drinking their Starbucks -while waiting for their Uber eats.Nice to read an intelligent(and obvious)take on keeping finances in check. You are going to be a great success my dear with that attitude! Bravo on sharing.