Make sure to check out the [pinned post on Loss](https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1472nhh/faq_loss/) to make sure this submission doesn't break the rule!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke) if you have any questions or concerns.*
the term aryan actually describes the persian people (Persian Empire pictured on the right). the Persian empire was formed in what is now modern day Iran, where the descendants of the Persian empire still live today (Iran meaning land of the Aryans, and this is what Persians called themselves. the term ‘Persian’ was actually coined by the Greeks). ‘aryan’ was adopted by adolf hitler to describe a ‘perfect’ race of blond haired, blue eyed people. this post is rejecting the modern definition coined by Hitler and referring to the fact that ‘Aryan’ traditionally refers to the Persian people.
edit: spelling
should also be mentioned that Hitler new that the Aryan Race was a proto Iranian people, it was believed among some scholars (Who Hitler obviously listened to) at the time that they migrated to settle into Europe.
I wonder how much he actually believed this, as at one point he was getting pissed off at Himmler doing archaeology in Germany and trying to showcase it. His exact quote was:
”Why do we call the whole world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It's bad enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts and enthusing over every potsherd and stone ax he finds. All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler makes a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these revelations.”
I don't think any of them actually believed it, but needed propaganda.
Germans wanted something to support they were the rightful rulers to bring in the third reich, but after extensive archeology just kept finding they were a backwater civilization for their entire history. They then fabricated the link to Aryans to give a sense of this credibility and even sent scientists to the Himalaya to measure cranial size and other physical attributes to fabricate a link.
This is actually really fascinating how much any of them is behind the ideas. Goebbels diaries are pretty interesting in this case. First of all he - especially as Propaganda-Minister - isn't to be trusted. Yet he writes very often that he wants to kill himself but Hitler "recharges his battery".
At the Nuremberg Trials many of the top Nazis tried to make a deal or sell out the others to keep their head yet some even called them out in those very trials and instead insisted in being right yet accepting their defeat.
In regards to Hitler it seems more like a big convenient show while he still thought as some Messiah figure of himself.
Never met an actual, unironic, not a "everyone I don't like is a nazi", but an actual, legitimate follower of Nazism until now. You find something new every day.
Anyway, reported
It was something about the third reich uniting the white continent through aryan blood or some stupid shit along those lines. I remember the words "White continent" and "united by blood"
for what? because i said something that is real? i mean, that what they mesnt to do, and “reported🤓” just because someone havent say something you like? Embarrassing and grow up
Yeah Dolphy was ***not*** happy that at the time of consolidating power, Himmler would rather study occult books and pseudo science backed by... magic? instead of his job as the commander of the SS. but he was loyal and dedicated to it enough to keep him around.
Hitler would cry if he saw modern day neo nazis talking about Hyperborea and tall, blonde aliens.
Germany and scandi have past, it was destroyed by christians, he was probably refering to the fact that it was destroyed, not that he hadnt, he wanted to preserve it that why he used Runes as ss divisions and etc.
Isn't it a common belief and theory that all (European) people came from the region of ancient Mesopotamia? I mean if that's true then everyones ancestors migrated from Iraq and Syria/turkey region. I believe the use of Aryan in reference to the Germans is more so to do with its meaning in Sanskrit of noble/superior. Kind of the whole motif of racial supremacy. We all come from the same place if you go far enough back in time, but the racists of the world believe they're better for any number of dumb reasons.
In the nazis case I guess they decided they're were descendants of ancient Mesopotamian nobles. Dumb stuff imo. But that's racism for ya.
the current consensus is that the first Homo-Homo evolved in the African continent. and over the years spread across the world.
the first *civilizations* are thought to have started in Mesopotamia. Ur or Uruk, iirc. But these aren't the first communities or even the first cities.
the "North European Hypothesis" that claims the Aryan race is the ancestor to the master European race comes from the 19th century. It has more to do with Mixing bloodlines, culture and language than the people migrating.
When I was studying ancient human migrations about seven years ago, the leading theory was that there were several different migrations into Europe. The first being neanderthals from Africa, then sapiens from Africa, then sapiens from the middle east. Those in Northern Europe have more "native" European DNA then anywhere else in Europe. Native referring to the first wave of sapiens into the continent. Native European and native Americans also appear to be from the same group of people, the first wave of sapiens into Europe.
Europe is a giant mess of DNA though so saying anyone is native to anywhere there is tricky.
1800s? Right, the fall of the Holy Roman Empire. Technically that traces back to 8th century. But yeah, that's far more recent history than Mesopotamia. Then you get to Rome which was founded 753 bc. Anyways. I've always thought choosing a Sanskrit word was a weird choice geographically speaking and was trying to understand it's origin more so.
Guess I should change my first post to the belief that Europeans migration traces back to Mesopotamia, which then traces back to Africa. But at the point you lose the geography relevance of using Sanskrit that far back. Since Sanskrit was developed as a language, what 500 years after Mesopotamia was settled? Anyways you're definitely right about it being more recent than Mesopotamia. Maybe they wanted to tie it into Alexandra the great since he conquered that region way back
Minor correction: Mesopotamia/Sumeria is the earliest (not the first) civilization for which we have sufficient records to consider well-attested. “Sufficient” in this context is a very broad word; there are archaeological remnants and some written evidence (cuneiform), as well as references from other historical/ancient texts. Sumerian civilization certainly existed, *and* we know a bit about them.
Sumeria is not the earliest civilization of which we’re aware, however—at least not reliably. There is archaeological evidence, for example, of a civilization dating potentially earlier than Mesopotamia (more than 12,000 years ago) in North America (Clovis). Because that evidence is only archaeological, however, and very scanty, we can only conclude it existed: we have no information beyond that they used stone tools and appeared to consume large animals (i.e. mastodons). So they are not well-attested, and aren’t usually categorized in the same way as ancient polities where there is a more historical record.
Human migration wasn't that linear. There were some from Mesopotamia, some from North Africa, and some from Central Asia. Basically everywhere adjacent from Europe.
It is probably more relevant here to go with the theory that most of the European-ethnic groups; (with exceptions being all of the finno-Ugric peoples, Turks and the basque) sharing a linguistic and genetic ancestor with the indo-Aryan peoples in the Yamnaya people going a couple thousand years back. (around 6500 iirc) You can see this link in things like the word for God being 'Dio' in Italian and 'Deva' in Hindi.
Indo-Aryans were a subset of the Indo-Europeans. These were once thought to have originated in the Russian steppes, hence the term Caucasian after the Caucasus mountains in Russia. But now there is growing evidence that the origin was further south, around the Black Sea and even as far south as the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates in Turkey. After the Neolithic Revolution and the development of agriculture and animal husbandry, they spread this technology, their culture and their DNA westward into Europe and SE into India.
Ayran comes from an old Indo-European word. The progenitors of the language came from the pontic steppe around southern Russia/eastern Ukraine and used chariots and horses to invade Europe to Iran and India. Not in like one sweep but different tribes among them invaded in waves over centuries.
honestly yeah, Hitler seems like the most milquetoast thing compared to the people he got his ideas off of. Himmler is probably the sole reason people have theories of Nazis and Alien technology and Mystical power.
I thought it was to do with the different usages of *Aryo* in Indo-Iranian versus Indo-European. *Aryo* meant something approximating "superior people". In Indo-Iranian, that referred the whole people, hence they are usually referred to as the Aryan people. In Indo-European, it referred to the upper caste. Hitler believed that Germanic people were the superior branch of the Indo-European family, hence Aryan in the Indo-European sense of the word.
He also paid archeologists to go out and lie about this and to convince people Jesus was of Aryan rather than Jewish descent. All bunk, but a lot of historians and archeologists sold their soul to fabricate evidence for it.
They share a linguistic family with the people who did which suggests a common origin. But their migrations moved in waves over centuries so it's not like a big unified group decided one set would go this way and the other would go that way.
It was an opportunistic perversion of lingüistic studies. Philologists at the time were correctly identifying a common protolanguage indo-european languages derive from. So racists hallucinated the existence of a singular, racially homogeneus, proto-indo-european speaking ethnic group Europeans themselves must have descended from too. This completely baseless logic was also applicable to semitic languages, you can guess why proto-nazi scholars were so eager to follow a line of thinking that separates semites and indoeuropeans into different peoples from distictively separated lineages.
>So racists hallucinated the existence of a singular, racially homogeneus, proto-indo-european speaking ethnic group Europeans themselves must have descended from too.
That alone doesn't sound racist. Using that idea to justify racial biases definitely is, but this theory doesn't immediately imply racism.
i won’t read all of the thread, but basing on what i saw i’ll say this.
Plus i’m not wrong by reading dozen of books bout it and seeing speeches of people who were in that party.
Some extra racist details. A German anthropologist published a paper basically saying aryans originated in Central Europe and then colonised the Iranian plateau. This so-called research among other pieces of psuedo-scientific literature were used by Germany as a way to strengthen ties to the Middle East.
That's the big question for historians, though, as there was a massive exchange between the peoples of the Iranian peninsula, eastern and Central Europe, and everything in between. Scythians are a big example of this, as the western group was very similar to the Europeans in looks, while the eastern groups looked closer to Turkic people's. Then you can also get into the Indo-Aryan invasions that spread their culture from North India to France.
Persians were a subset of Indo-Aryans who were themselves a subset of Indo-Europeans. Indo-Aryans migrated as far as India and merged with the existing Dravidians to form the Indus Valley Civilization.
Spelling man, It’s Gandhi, not “Ghandi” and it’s Hindus not “Hindis”. Also Hindu isn’t a race so to speak, there are many genetic variants in India, with some being considered the original inhabitants and some that are proposed to have migrated from outside areas like Central Asia and Mesopotamia. Also Gandhi didn’t consider himself as part of the “Aryan” race, because in India the term was never used in the racial context. Please read up on this
>Tacitus was a roman senator who authored the book, "Germania." A portion of the text described the peoples that Romans referred to "Germans" (long before there existed the idea of nationalities, let alone "Germany".) These people that Tacitus describes were in the process of being Christianized. Some tribes were Christian, others were on their way to being Christian, and yet others were still worshipping their old gods. By in large, those Germans that were Christian believed that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were separate entities. This was considered heretical thought by the Roman Christians which was made doctrinal after the Council of Nicaea. The Romans referred to these heretics as "Arians", from Arius, a Alexandrian Christian that first started speaking this idea.
Hold on a tick, Tacitus never mentions Arianism. Tacitus died, like, a century before Arian was even born. Also, he doesn't mention anything about Christians in germania; indeed, I've never even seen anyone claim a Christian presence among the Germanic tribes of the 1st and 2nd century.
You're right. I wasn't trying to be misleading. I definitely could have wrote my reply better. I just typed it up while waiting for the bus.
I'll get back to edit this soon to better express myself.
>the term ‘Persian’ was actually coined by the Greeks).
This part is not true. Parsa is a Persian word that was adopted into Greek. It's the name of a specific region of modern day Iran where the conquerors of various Persian empires (and the language itself) came from.
The English word certainly comes via Greek but it is not a term invented by foreigners.
yes, i worded that a little badly. i meant that the entire empire and the people being referred to as ‘persia’ is greek doing, because they referred to the entire population based on the singular region from which Cyrus the Great hailed. similar to the Greek misnomer of ‘Mede’, which they also used to refer to the Persians long after the fall of the Median Empire. the persians themselves did not call their empire the ‘persian’ empire is what i meant. that’s the reason that Iran changed its name from Persia in the 1930s.
Related, but not on topic. Most people of European descent have at least 1-2% Neanderthal DNA and people of (primarily) African descent have zero or almost zero percent. Neanderthals used to be thought of as stupid cave people for a long time, but once the human genome was coded and we started seeing this pre-human genetic link the PR image of Neanderthals seemed to get a big rehabilitation. White anthropologists fucked up people's perceptions of race for over a century now and you see things like what I mentioned and the joke of this post. Crazy ass shit.
I've been told by Persians that it was a nationality, not an ethnicity. Refering to the mutli-ethnic coalition that formed the beginings of persian empire, which was only ever called that by the British.
Indian manuscripts describe the Aryans as having blue eyes. There are still light skinned blue eyed people in the middle east. It wasn't some made up thing from Hitler.
Also, Iran changed its internationally recognized name to Iran from Persia in order to court an alliance with the Axis powers. Although domestically it was both Iran and Persia. Many expatriates do continue to refer to themselves as Persian to distance themselves from “Iran”.
No, incorrect, it refers to an idea that all of the arab people were the “Aryans” where all of the scandi came from.
By saying they’re the pure and they real aryans, that showing a cuck nordid, who thinks he’s aryan.
Persians aren't the only Aryans. All modern white people except for Finns descend from the ancient Aryans (however ancient Aryans would have looked more like Iranians than Nordic people because although Nordic people are aryan the traits that are associated with them such as blonde hair actually come from the people who lived in Scandinavia prior to the aryan spread), same with Indians, Sri Lankans, and Bengalis. Nepalese culturally descend from them as well though not genetically
Yes of course silly me. No ancient culture thought that different people were different. The whole world was holding hands and singing in a hippy circle then out of nowhere in the 1600s white people magically appeared out of thin air from another dimension and invented the concept of race
Note your projection here, the defensiveness. Note how I didn't claim the world was a harmonious place before the eighteenth century, but that's the straw man you chose to build and then burn. Nor did I claim that no ancient people thought that difference existed, they did but they didn't have the understanding of heredity or speciation required to believe in race, nor did they have categorising impulses like those that existed after Linnaeus. Read good translations of Herodotus etc. and you'll find that they understand physical and cultural differences in humans to be a product of climate.
My specific claim was that race was invented in the eighteenth century, because it was. My other claim was that Aryan was a cultural/religious/linguistic term, because it was.
But, to mimic your defensive sarcasm, what do I know about it I just did my doctorate on the topic.
I don't read anything that follows "strawman" accusations when what I've said regardless of an extreme example isn't a strawman. . So you win congratulations now you get to tell me how I'm an incel, Nazi, cuck, druggie, pseudosciencist or whatever group you don't like.
It saddens me that being a fan and aesthetic participant of Norse mythology is becoming more and more tainted as the years go by
I want to rep some Mjolnir, I want to rep some Yggdrasil motifs and Jorgungandr and Fenrir and maybe some nice runic displays
BUT THE DAMNED NEO NAZIS ARE GIVING IT A BAD REP
https://preview.redd.it/6hvejmpnt1zc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ece7e2558abc684b53f8ad14414654eede715f79
I got one of these shirts a while back for this exact reason. [link to Etsy shop](https://www.etsy.com/listing/924929964/) (not mine)
I would say that it's less and less actuallly. In the 90s and 2000s, it was mostly nazis that were interested in Norse mythology or Scandinavian history. I remember attending some historical music concert with some bald morons standing with their right arms raised.
Now, the general public became much more interested in those topics so automatically, the percentage of short Austrian fans have dropped significantly.
You could just take it back. There are men that are christian that are 'taking the rainbow back' from the alphabet mafia to mean that God promised noah not to flood the world. Some say the pride flag changed to include new peoples, but others say it changed because it started to be seen as a christian symbol.
Felt that mate. As a Heathen myself, I find the Neo-Nazis to be total bullshit. They’re dragging down the name and respectability of a valid and real spiritual praxis, and they’re not even doing it honestly. And don’t get me started on the AFA…
Ah, fair enough. I meant the Ásatrú Folk Assembly. They’re the largest organized Heathen religious group. They’re also WILDLY racist and homophobic. If you go to their website, it says on the home page that they stand for the “Traditional White Family.” It sucks MAJOR ass to have to acknowledge that they worship the same Gods I do…
This is a racism meme. The term aryan used to mean "noble one" or something like that in persian mythology and Iran means "land of the noble ones". In the late 19th and early 20th century, white supremacists/nazis appropriated this term to mean "ubermensch" and claimed that white people descended from aryans and original indo-europeans definitely looked like Neil Patrick Harris or something like that.
This meme makes fun of the fact that white supremacists think they are aryans meanwhile the actual aryans are just ancient iranian people.
This is a complex and multilayered joke.
The Aryans were a semi-mythical, semi-historical warrior race from ancient India. In the twentieth century, the Nazis believed that white Nordic Europeans were the descendants of the Aryans and used that to justify their genocidal wars.
Modern white supremacists commonly illustrate minorities such as Africans in a demeaning way with comically large lips and elongated heads. They also like to feature unflattering depictions of non-white society as occupied by savage tribes living in huts (in contrast to the alleged glory of urban Western civilization).
This comic (illustrated by a non-racist person) imagines a scenario in which an actual Aryan meets one of his alleged descendants and rejects them in disgust. The tropes of white supremacist art is here inverted and used to depict the white supremacist in an unflattering light. The joke is that his “glorious ancestor” views the racist just like the racist views the races he hates. The comic’s theme is that the glory of ancient societies are the universal heritage of mankind, arguably belonging more to nonwhite cultures than white cultures.
The original unedited drawing was done by a racist though. It's a recolor of a 4chan "we wuz kangs" comic depicting a caricature of a black man looking up at a Pharoah. It's just been turned around
They did not originate from either place per say but migrated there from the central asian steppe around 3 kya.
The current consensus is that the Yamnaya (PIE) migrated north from what is today Ukraine to what is today Germany, Poland and Western Russia (corded ware culture) and then a splinter group migrated east to just North of the Caspian Sea, these would become the Sintashta (real good at making bronze and made the first war chariot along with creating modern horses).
Finally these Sintasha would migrate South to Persia and North India to create the Indo-Iranians and later Indo-Aryans (the Iranian languages are not classed as Aryan so the meme is technically wrong).
I mean how much can you really expect from a man completely off his fucking Rocker in conspiracy??
See also the swastika and what he has done to it. Dude literally took key points of other cultures and intentionally appropriated them into oblivion and hated.
Looks like it's a response to the "we wuz kangs" nonsense I keep seeing on Facebook when people argue about AI art and Afrocentric history pages.
All I can really say is it seems like a fair response.
I get the meaning with hutler n all that but why does the guy have a mjolnir chain and Heil Odin? Is it cause hes supposed to be kinda like viking descent? I'm just curious because I'm descended from vikings and I've research a lot about them and never heard of vikings associating themselves as "aryans" so I don't understand y that was added
Lots of neo nazis appropriate Norse culture and religious symbols. It sucks for actually cool people who have a connection to Norse people, either genetically, culturally, or religiously. Norse pagans deal with a lot of neo nazis trying to claim they’re Norse pagan but really they’re just fascists who greatly misinterpret what Odin as a god actually stands for.
Nazi ideology actually comes from a cult called the Thule gesselschaft. They believed in the mythical Thule. A Scandinavian Arian super society that disappeared like Atlantis. So a lot of neo nazi Aryans associate themselves with vikings.
Make sure to check out the [pinned post on Loss](https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1472nhh/faq_loss/) to make sure this submission doesn't break the rule! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke) if you have any questions or concerns.*
the term aryan actually describes the persian people (Persian Empire pictured on the right). the Persian empire was formed in what is now modern day Iran, where the descendants of the Persian empire still live today (Iran meaning land of the Aryans, and this is what Persians called themselves. the term ‘Persian’ was actually coined by the Greeks). ‘aryan’ was adopted by adolf hitler to describe a ‘perfect’ race of blond haired, blue eyed people. this post is rejecting the modern definition coined by Hitler and referring to the fact that ‘Aryan’ traditionally refers to the Persian people. edit: spelling
should also be mentioned that Hitler new that the Aryan Race was a proto Iranian people, it was believed among some scholars (Who Hitler obviously listened to) at the time that they migrated to settle into Europe.
I wonder how much he actually believed this, as at one point he was getting pissed off at Himmler doing archaeology in Germany and trying to showcase it. His exact quote was: ”Why do we call the whole world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It's bad enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts and enthusing over every potsherd and stone ax he finds. All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler makes a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these revelations.”
I don't think any of them actually believed it, but needed propaganda. Germans wanted something to support they were the rightful rulers to bring in the third reich, but after extensive archeology just kept finding they were a backwater civilization for their entire history. They then fabricated the link to Aryans to give a sense of this credibility and even sent scientists to the Himalaya to measure cranial size and other physical attributes to fabricate a link.
This is actually really fascinating how much any of them is behind the ideas. Goebbels diaries are pretty interesting in this case. First of all he - especially as Propaganda-Minister - isn't to be trusted. Yet he writes very often that he wants to kill himself but Hitler "recharges his battery". At the Nuremberg Trials many of the top Nazis tried to make a deal or sell out the others to keep their head yet some even called them out in those very trials and instead insisted in being right yet accepting their defeat. In regards to Hitler it seems more like a big convenient show while he still thought as some Messiah figure of himself.
yes trusting documents online on it or written pages of “his book” online? so clever
[удалено]
Never met an actual, unironic, not a "everyone I don't like is a nazi", but an actual, legitimate follower of Nazism until now. You find something new every day. Anyway, reported
Yeah, they're out there. You're lucky to have never run into them. There was an active chapter chapter near my hometown. They're no fun whatsoever.
This comment makes me want to read the deleted comment desperately.
It was something about the third reich uniting the white continent through aryan blood or some stupid shit along those lines. I remember the words "White continent" and "united by blood"
Good deletion then.
for what? because i said something that is real? i mean, that what they mesnt to do, and “reported🤓” just because someone havent say something you like? Embarrassing and grow up
Yeah Dolphy was ***not*** happy that at the time of consolidating power, Himmler would rather study occult books and pseudo science backed by... magic? instead of his job as the commander of the SS. but he was loyal and dedicated to it enough to keep him around. Hitler would cry if he saw modern day neo nazis talking about Hyperborea and tall, blonde aliens.
But can we really say "loyal" to Himmler?
Dolphy?
Adolph(y)
Read that in Spartacus Alsons voice
Germany and scandi have past, it was destroyed by christians, he was probably refering to the fact that it was destroyed, not that he hadnt, he wanted to preserve it that why he used Runes as ss divisions and etc.
yes, thank you!
Isn't it a common belief and theory that all (European) people came from the region of ancient Mesopotamia? I mean if that's true then everyones ancestors migrated from Iraq and Syria/turkey region. I believe the use of Aryan in reference to the Germans is more so to do with its meaning in Sanskrit of noble/superior. Kind of the whole motif of racial supremacy. We all come from the same place if you go far enough back in time, but the racists of the world believe they're better for any number of dumb reasons. In the nazis case I guess they decided they're were descendants of ancient Mesopotamian nobles. Dumb stuff imo. But that's racism for ya.
the current consensus is that the first Homo-Homo evolved in the African continent. and over the years spread across the world. the first *civilizations* are thought to have started in Mesopotamia. Ur or Uruk, iirc. But these aren't the first communities or even the first cities. the "North European Hypothesis" that claims the Aryan race is the ancestor to the master European race comes from the 19th century. It has more to do with Mixing bloodlines, culture and language than the people migrating.
When I was studying ancient human migrations about seven years ago, the leading theory was that there were several different migrations into Europe. The first being neanderthals from Africa, then sapiens from Africa, then sapiens from the middle east. Those in Northern Europe have more "native" European DNA then anywhere else in Europe. Native referring to the first wave of sapiens into the continent. Native European and native Americans also appear to be from the same group of people, the first wave of sapiens into Europe. Europe is a giant mess of DNA though so saying anyone is native to anywhere there is tricky.
1800s? Right, the fall of the Holy Roman Empire. Technically that traces back to 8th century. But yeah, that's far more recent history than Mesopotamia. Then you get to Rome which was founded 753 bc. Anyways. I've always thought choosing a Sanskrit word was a weird choice geographically speaking and was trying to understand it's origin more so. Guess I should change my first post to the belief that Europeans migration traces back to Mesopotamia, which then traces back to Africa. But at the point you lose the geography relevance of using Sanskrit that far back. Since Sanskrit was developed as a language, what 500 years after Mesopotamia was settled? Anyways you're definitely right about it being more recent than Mesopotamia. Maybe they wanted to tie it into Alexandra the great since he conquered that region way back
Minor correction: Mesopotamia/Sumeria is the earliest (not the first) civilization for which we have sufficient records to consider well-attested. “Sufficient” in this context is a very broad word; there are archaeological remnants and some written evidence (cuneiform), as well as references from other historical/ancient texts. Sumerian civilization certainly existed, *and* we know a bit about them. Sumeria is not the earliest civilization of which we’re aware, however—at least not reliably. There is archaeological evidence, for example, of a civilization dating potentially earlier than Mesopotamia (more than 12,000 years ago) in North America (Clovis). Because that evidence is only archaeological, however, and very scanty, we can only conclude it existed: we have no information beyond that they used stone tools and appeared to consume large animals (i.e. mastodons). So they are not well-attested, and aren’t usually categorized in the same way as ancient polities where there is a more historical record.
Human migration wasn't that linear. There were some from Mesopotamia, some from North Africa, and some from Central Asia. Basically everywhere adjacent from Europe.
It is probably more relevant here to go with the theory that most of the European-ethnic groups; (with exceptions being all of the finno-Ugric peoples, Turks and the basque) sharing a linguistic and genetic ancestor with the indo-Aryan peoples in the Yamnaya people going a couple thousand years back. (around 6500 iirc) You can see this link in things like the word for God being 'Dio' in Italian and 'Deva' in Hindi.
Indo-Aryans were a subset of the Indo-Europeans. These were once thought to have originated in the Russian steppes, hence the term Caucasian after the Caucasus mountains in Russia. But now there is growing evidence that the origin was further south, around the Black Sea and even as far south as the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates in Turkey. After the Neolithic Revolution and the development of agriculture and animal husbandry, they spread this technology, their culture and their DNA westward into Europe and SE into India.
They did come from the pontic, but learned to work copper and bronze and make wheels from contact with the near east.
Ayran comes from an old Indo-European word. The progenitors of the language came from the pontic steppe around southern Russia/eastern Ukraine and used chariots and horses to invade Europe to Iran and India. Not in like one sweep but different tribes among them invaded in waves over centuries.
I mean yeah, I'm sure a couple of them did. Doesn't mean that's proto iran was all white. Such a weird take. But one of his tamer takes.
honestly yeah, Hitler seems like the most milquetoast thing compared to the people he got his ideas off of. Himmler is probably the sole reason people have theories of Nazis and Alien technology and Mystical power.
I thought it was to do with the different usages of *Aryo* in Indo-Iranian versus Indo-European. *Aryo* meant something approximating "superior people". In Indo-Iranian, that referred the whole people, hence they are usually referred to as the Aryan people. In Indo-European, it referred to the upper caste. Hitler believed that Germanic people were the superior branch of the Indo-European family, hence Aryan in the Indo-European sense of the word.
He also paid archeologists to go out and lie about this and to convince people Jesus was of Aryan rather than Jewish descent. All bunk, but a lot of historians and archeologists sold their soul to fabricate evidence for it.
They share a linguistic family with the people who did which suggests a common origin. But their migrations moved in waves over centuries so it's not like a big unified group decided one set would go this way and the other would go that way.
Yes, I covered that in a comment below, but I didn't expect this to become popular enough to need to elaborate here.
It was an opportunistic perversion of lingüistic studies. Philologists at the time were correctly identifying a common protolanguage indo-european languages derive from. So racists hallucinated the existence of a singular, racially homogeneus, proto-indo-european speaking ethnic group Europeans themselves must have descended from too. This completely baseless logic was also applicable to semitic languages, you can guess why proto-nazi scholars were so eager to follow a line of thinking that separates semites and indoeuropeans into different peoples from distictively separated lineages.
>So racists hallucinated the existence of a singular, racially homogeneus, proto-indo-european speaking ethnic group Europeans themselves must have descended from too. That alone doesn't sound racist. Using that idea to justify racial biases definitely is, but this theory doesn't immediately imply racism.
Trust me it gets way crazier than just that.
Like a cursed Indo-European origin story?
Just like the Roma
Aryans were the idea of the scandi people, nothing more. Plus believed that they were pleiadian and shit like that.
Its fucked up not only how wrong you are, but how much you didn't read the thread where we talked about this.
i won’t read all of the thread, but basing on what i saw i’ll say this. Plus i’m not wrong by reading dozen of books bout it and seeing speeches of people who were in that party.
Some extra racist details. A German anthropologist published a paper basically saying aryans originated in Central Europe and then colonised the Iranian plateau. This so-called research among other pieces of psuedo-scientific literature were used by Germany as a way to strengthen ties to the Middle East.
That's the big question for historians, though, as there was a massive exchange between the peoples of the Iranian peninsula, eastern and Central Europe, and everything in between. Scythians are a big example of this, as the western group was very similar to the Europeans in looks, while the eastern groups looked closer to Turkic people's. Then you can also get into the Indo-Aryan invasions that spread their culture from North India to France.
I never knew this. I used to hear references to Aryan in songs and other media and only knew the Nazi definition, confusing me all the time.
It's also pointing out that the 'master race' were uncultured hut-dwellers when the Iranian/Persians were a flourishing empire.
Persians were a subset of Indo-Aryans who were themselves a subset of Indo-Europeans. Indo-Aryans migrated as far as India and merged with the existing Dravidians to form the Indus Valley Civilization.
Hindis also consider themselves Aryian, Ghandi believed himself to be a member of the Aryian race.
Technically the Aryan Peoples are geographically Indo-Iranian. but the Indian side of that is left out of the verbiage for some reason.
Spelling man, It’s Gandhi, not “Ghandi” and it’s Hindus not “Hindis”. Also Hindu isn’t a race so to speak, there are many genetic variants in India, with some being considered the original inhabitants and some that are proposed to have migrated from outside areas like Central Asia and Mesopotamia. Also Gandhi didn’t consider himself as part of the “Aryan” race, because in India the term was never used in the racial context. Please read up on this
Persian and south asians actually. Lotta Hindu texts that refer to us as Aryans.
....aryan is a sanskrit word
-
>Tacitus was a roman senator who authored the book, "Germania." A portion of the text described the peoples that Romans referred to "Germans" (long before there existed the idea of nationalities, let alone "Germany".) These people that Tacitus describes were in the process of being Christianized. Some tribes were Christian, others were on their way to being Christian, and yet others were still worshipping their old gods. By in large, those Germans that were Christian believed that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were separate entities. This was considered heretical thought by the Roman Christians which was made doctrinal after the Council of Nicaea. The Romans referred to these heretics as "Arians", from Arius, a Alexandrian Christian that first started speaking this idea. Hold on a tick, Tacitus never mentions Arianism. Tacitus died, like, a century before Arian was even born. Also, he doesn't mention anything about Christians in germania; indeed, I've never even seen anyone claim a Christian presence among the Germanic tribes of the 1st and 2nd century.
You're right. I wasn't trying to be misleading. I definitely could have wrote my reply better. I just typed it up while waiting for the bus. I'll get back to edit this soon to better express myself.
>the term ‘Persian’ was actually coined by the Greeks). This part is not true. Parsa is a Persian word that was adopted into Greek. It's the name of a specific region of modern day Iran where the conquerors of various Persian empires (and the language itself) came from. The English word certainly comes via Greek but it is not a term invented by foreigners.
yes, i worded that a little badly. i meant that the entire empire and the people being referred to as ‘persia’ is greek doing, because they referred to the entire population based on the singular region from which Cyrus the Great hailed. similar to the Greek misnomer of ‘Mede’, which they also used to refer to the Persians long after the fall of the Median Empire. the persians themselves did not call their empire the ‘persian’ empire is what i meant. that’s the reason that Iran changed its name from Persia in the 1930s.
Roy casagranda has great lectures about this and goes over aryan history leading to the crusades really well
Related, but not on topic. Most people of European descent have at least 1-2% Neanderthal DNA and people of (primarily) African descent have zero or almost zero percent. Neanderthals used to be thought of as stupid cave people for a long time, but once the human genome was coded and we started seeing this pre-human genetic link the PR image of Neanderthals seemed to get a big rehabilitation. White anthropologists fucked up people's perceptions of race for over a century now and you see things like what I mentioned and the joke of this post. Crazy ass shit.
That's also a picture of Cyrus the Great.
actually learned something! Thank you
I've been told by Persians that it was a nationality, not an ethnicity. Refering to the mutli-ethnic coalition that formed the beginings of persian empire, which was only ever called that by the British.
Damn that’s interesting, good explanation.
Indian manuscripts describe the Aryans as having blue eyes. There are still light skinned blue eyed people in the middle east. It wasn't some made up thing from Hitler.
It is in that Aryan was not linked to race: it was a cultural/linguistic/religious designation. Race was invented in the eighteenth century.
Also, Iran changed its internationally recognized name to Iran from Persia in order to court an alliance with the Axis powers. Although domestically it was both Iran and Persia. Many expatriates do continue to refer to themselves as Persian to distance themselves from “Iran”.
To be fair the nazi version of aryan is basically akin to atlantians and not rooted in real science.
No, incorrect, it refers to an idea that all of the arab people were the “Aryans” where all of the scandi came from. By saying they’re the pure and they real aryans, that showing a cuck nordid, who thinks he’s aryan.
Persians aren't the only Aryans. All modern white people except for Finns descend from the ancient Aryans (however ancient Aryans would have looked more like Iranians than Nordic people because although Nordic people are aryan the traits that are associated with them such as blonde hair actually come from the people who lived in Scandinavia prior to the aryan spread), same with Indians, Sri Lankans, and Bengalis. Nepalese culturally descend from them as well though not genetically
This is not true. Aryan was a linguistic and cultural designation not a racial one. Race is a new invention.
Yes of course silly me. No ancient culture thought that different people were different. The whole world was holding hands and singing in a hippy circle then out of nowhere in the 1600s white people magically appeared out of thin air from another dimension and invented the concept of race
Note your projection here, the defensiveness. Note how I didn't claim the world was a harmonious place before the eighteenth century, but that's the straw man you chose to build and then burn. Nor did I claim that no ancient people thought that difference existed, they did but they didn't have the understanding of heredity or speciation required to believe in race, nor did they have categorising impulses like those that existed after Linnaeus. Read good translations of Herodotus etc. and you'll find that they understand physical and cultural differences in humans to be a product of climate. My specific claim was that race was invented in the eighteenth century, because it was. My other claim was that Aryan was a cultural/religious/linguistic term, because it was. But, to mimic your defensive sarcasm, what do I know about it I just did my doctorate on the topic.
I don't read anything that follows "strawman" accusations when what I've said regardless of an extreme example isn't a strawman. . So you win congratulations now you get to tell me how I'm an incel, Nazi, cuck, druggie, pseudosciencist or whatever group you don't like.
Your first four words are true that's for sure.
It saddens me that being a fan and aesthetic participant of Norse mythology is becoming more and more tainted as the years go by I want to rep some Mjolnir, I want to rep some Yggdrasil motifs and Jorgungandr and Fenrir and maybe some nice runic displays BUT THE DAMNED NEO NAZIS ARE GIVING IT A BAD REP
https://preview.redd.it/6hvejmpnt1zc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ece7e2558abc684b53f8ad14414654eede715f79 I got one of these shirts a while back for this exact reason. [link to Etsy shop](https://www.etsy.com/listing/924929964/) (not mine)
Tham that goes hard.
Thank you for showing me this amazing shirt, I am definitely going to purchase it.
That is fantastic
Be one of the people who rep it who aren't cancer, make the nazis and racists feel uncomfortable, make it your and all other decent people's space
Granted but it ain't gonna stop by decent folk surrendering the symbols, that will lose them to the far right for generations. Get your tattoo
I would say that it's less and less actuallly. In the 90s and 2000s, it was mostly nazis that were interested in Norse mythology or Scandinavian history. I remember attending some historical music concert with some bald morons standing with their right arms raised. Now, the general public became much more interested in those topics so automatically, the percentage of short Austrian fans have dropped significantly.
You could just take it back. There are men that are christian that are 'taking the rainbow back' from the alphabet mafia to mean that God promised noah not to flood the world. Some say the pride flag changed to include new peoples, but others say it changed because it started to be seen as a christian symbol.
Very true very true
Felt that mate. As a Heathen myself, I find the Neo-Nazis to be total bullshit. They’re dragging down the name and respectability of a valid and real spiritual praxis, and they’re not even doing it honestly. And don’t get me started on the AFA…
American Family Association? I dont know much about it
Ah, fair enough. I meant the Ásatrú Folk Assembly. They’re the largest organized Heathen religious group. They’re also WILDLY racist and homophobic. If you go to their website, it says on the home page that they stand for the “Traditional White Family.” It sucks MAJOR ass to have to acknowledge that they worship the same Gods I do…
Dang man, I had no idea about such a group. Crappy people everywhere you look I think. Just gotta be the light that shines brighter than these asshats
It saddens me as an actual norse, this is my culture! But my culture are nazi food and marvel content.. i hate it!
Ruined by neo nazis? Lol it’s ruined by sloppy nerds and weird MCU fanboys.
https://preview.redd.it/zbr3x3pic4zc1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4dcaa680d20f4e10d2c8224d5f07b880d4073490
No, because the neo-nazis use it as a sort of white supremacy culture
Nazis where always good at stealing stuff from other culters be it sweden, iran and anyother culture
This is a racism meme. The term aryan used to mean "noble one" or something like that in persian mythology and Iran means "land of the noble ones". In the late 19th and early 20th century, white supremacists/nazis appropriated this term to mean "ubermensch" and claimed that white people descended from aryans and original indo-europeans definitely looked like Neil Patrick Harris or something like that. This meme makes fun of the fact that white supremacists think they are aryans meanwhile the actual aryans are just ancient iranian people.
This is a complex and multilayered joke. The Aryans were a semi-mythical, semi-historical warrior race from ancient India. In the twentieth century, the Nazis believed that white Nordic Europeans were the descendants of the Aryans and used that to justify their genocidal wars. Modern white supremacists commonly illustrate minorities such as Africans in a demeaning way with comically large lips and elongated heads. They also like to feature unflattering depictions of non-white society as occupied by savage tribes living in huts (in contrast to the alleged glory of urban Western civilization). This comic (illustrated by a non-racist person) imagines a scenario in which an actual Aryan meets one of his alleged descendants and rejects them in disgust. The tropes of white supremacist art is here inverted and used to depict the white supremacist in an unflattering light. The joke is that his “glorious ancestor” views the racist just like the racist views the races he hates. The comic’s theme is that the glory of ancient societies are the universal heritage of mankind, arguably belonging more to nonwhite cultures than white cultures.
The original unedited drawing was done by a racist though. It's a recolor of a 4chan "we wuz kangs" comic depicting a caricature of a black man looking up at a Pharoah. It's just been turned around
I dont know whether Aryans originated from ancient India or ancient Persia, but the images in this meme are Persian. Just as an FYI.
They settled in both.
They did not originate from either place per say but migrated there from the central asian steppe around 3 kya. The current consensus is that the Yamnaya (PIE) migrated north from what is today Ukraine to what is today Germany, Poland and Western Russia (corded ware culture) and then a splinter group migrated east to just North of the Caspian Sea, these would become the Sintashta (real good at making bronze and made the first war chariot along with creating modern horses). Finally these Sintasha would migrate South to Persia and North India to create the Indo-Iranians and later Indo-Aryans (the Iranian languages are not classed as Aryan so the meme is technically wrong).
Just fyi for those reading: The idea that Aryans originated from India has been completely disproven except for Indian nationalist circles.
Erling Haaland
Chad Cyrus the Great
Is that Haaland?
Ethno-nationalism induced lobotomy, next question
I mean how much can you really expect from a man completely off his fucking Rocker in conspiracy?? See also the swastika and what he has done to it. Dude literally took key points of other cultures and intentionally appropriated them into oblivion and hated.
Just like Christianity
Neo Nazis really need to take that shit off, that Mjolnir is not for them.
[удалено]
Exactly! I’m not going to be stopped in practicing my own religion cuz of those mfs.
agreed
The joke is neo Nazi racial theories don't make sense.
I hate what nazis did. They took so many interesting symbols and fucked Everything up.
Looks like it's a response to the "we wuz kangs" nonsense I keep seeing on Facebook when people argue about AI art and Afrocentric history pages. All I can really say is it seems like a fair response.
Filthy G*rm barbarians
I get the meaning with hutler n all that but why does the guy have a mjolnir chain and Heil Odin? Is it cause hes supposed to be kinda like viking descent? I'm just curious because I'm descended from vikings and I've research a lot about them and never heard of vikings associating themselves as "aryans" so I don't understand y that was added
Lots of neo nazis appropriate Norse culture and religious symbols. It sucks for actually cool people who have a connection to Norse people, either genetically, culturally, or religiously. Norse pagans deal with a lot of neo nazis trying to claim they’re Norse pagan but really they’re just fascists who greatly misinterpret what Odin as a god actually stands for.
Nazi ideology actually comes from a cult called the Thule gesselschaft. They believed in the mythical Thule. A Scandinavian Arian super society that disappeared like Atlantis. So a lot of neo nazi Aryans associate themselves with vikings.
Ohh well thats weird if only ppl would just listen to Jesus this world would be legit 10 trillion times better
Trying to flex how cool your country is but showing the smoking remains of its largest palace. Alexander the goat for life.
wypipo
Not really implausible. The small scale raids of what is modern day Iran started in the 800’s and really ramped up by the 900’s.
Everyone loves ayran dawg
It’s a racists post.
2 minorities wanna be special