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Danny Masterson (another star of that 70’s show) was convicted on two counts of rape.
Everyone pictured except Topher wrote letters to the judge, supporting Masterson and asking for leniency in sentencing. Masterson got 30 to life.
It's interesting because Topher (Eric) reportedly didn't get along with most of the cast, which would make sense as to why he didn't write a letter of support for Danny while the others did.
Nah, he’s a confirmed asshole, look at what people have said about him in other works he’s been in like Spider-Man 3. He’s a douche amongst douches, but at least he’s not a rapist. It’s the rare occasion where an asshole still has a sense of morality
From what I've heard and seen it's not even he's an asshole. Just to him it was a job. He clocks in. Works. Has pride in work he likes. And doesn't really see coworkers as friends nor family. I think that's very valid
I think that’s healthier than pretending like acting is “the deepest work of the soul” and claiming “my coworkers unlocked worlds within me” or something. Every job is a job is a job.
Yes as I recall (from Reddit threads - so take with a grain of salt), the rest of the cast would go out to clubs and parties together and Topher would rather just go home so naturally the cast didn’t like him, thought he’s a snob etc.
100%. Molly's Game actor X who made her "bark like a seal" for tips, is Tobey Maguire -- and wasn't he also part of Leo's "posse"? (ugh don't make me say the full name)
Compare that to Topher, who just clocked in and out of his job
I don't think Team America is supposed to be taken as fact but I might be wrong. Matt Damon might really be only capable od 2 words and maybe hes made of wood.
Can you link a first hand source?
Everything I've ever read was basically just that he wasn't really into hanging out with the rest of the cast after shooting, showed up, did his job, got paid, and left. The only sources that say he was an asshole is Ashton Kutcher, who is a deeply sanctimonious and narcissistic human being, Mila Kunis, who is a liar and a narcissist, and Danny, who I don't even need to get into.
Maybe the guy who stayed in his lane and did his job wasn't the asshole. Maybe the assholes were the little pack of young sitcom socialites that felt insecure because one of their costars wasn't as enamored with them as they were of themselves.
Same here. Pretty sure I remembering seeing that he didn’t get a long with them either due to some if not most of them being into Scientology. If anything I just think he didn’t vibe with the cast, which there’s nothing wrong with that. You don’t have to completely like your coworkers.
Pretty sure your confusing him with Tobey Maguire.
The only thing I ever heard about Topher personally is that he's an amazing film editor and his star wars prequel edit is somewhat legendary
At this point, I trust the assholes more. Sure, they suck, but if they had something terrible in the closet everyone around them has a motive to hang them with it. It's the super charming ones that are the most suspect because everyone wants to protect them. With how many insane narcissists go into entertainment, being unpopular in the industry is kind of a green flag.
People said he was a douche on the set of Spiderman 3? The movie where he played Eddie Brock/Venom? A douchebag and the villain? It's almost like he was in character or something.
Lmao yeah but being a douche off screen when filming is done speaks more to his character than
anything else. But like I said, at least he’s not a rapist
Oof mixed bag. Love his work, but Scientology is for morons, so hard to say. I personally signed up for Scientology just to see what they’re about and holy shit it’s idiots from the ground up
I don't think Jim Carrey *is* a scientologist. If so, this is the first time I've ever seen/heard it mentioned and I've been watching his career since the days of Fire Marshall Bill on In Living Color.
He had a GF who passed away that seems to have been one but that's all I've seen mentioned of his name and scientology.
Is he a scientologist? I know that one Irish woman he dated, who killed herself after he gave her some STIs and broke up with her, had been a scientologist; but I never heard of him being involved in that. I have heard of him being involved with those Maharishi schools that teach transcendental meditation, and they do charge people absurd rates, but they don't seem to be anywhere near as ridiculous or as abusive as the Church of Scientology
One thing I do judge him for is repeating some of Jenny McCarthy's anti-vax stuff back when he lived with her. I hope he's gotten better on that issue but I don't really know
Apparently he custom edited Star Wars episodes 1-3 into a fairly likeable movie and would pay to screen it in small theaters for his small group of cinephiles/acting peers.
He was playing a man-eating oil-slick from outer space. It's not a role that requires method acting. If he's still being a dick when the camera's off, then that's because he's a dick in general.
convicted murderers hate and kill chomos (prison slang for pedo) in prison all the time of course an asshole who hates everybody hates a rapist way more
As I understand it, he wasn't unpleasant, just wasn't interested in being friends. Alot of the cast were seen partying alot and he was always portrayed as the introvert. This is all tabloid info, but as I understand it, none of the cast ever said he was miserable.
Yeah from what I've heard/read from various sources of varying trustworthiness, the cast would party and stuff, he wouldn't go, a lot of people have put together timelines that suggest already inappropriate stuff was probably happening he may have been avoiding.
From my understanding, Topher has never liked Masterson, but everyone else loved him. He and Ashton would do things like kiss Kunis without her permission and generally be a bully.
Also, everyone else is involved or has been involved in scientology. I don't understand why they aren't talked about more as they are an actual shadow organization that controls a lot of power in our country. I'm almost positive Topher not joining scientology is why his career kind of fizzled out.
And although no one can prove it, a lot of people believe Ashton might have murdered his ex-girlfriend, and Scientologists helped him cover it up and get away with it.
That's wild with Ashton because of all the charitable work he's done to stop child exploitation. He and Kunis made a charity ffs.
And I remember the video of him testifying as a witness on a sex trafficking case in front of congress.
Guess it's always career before morals with the Hollywood types. Hustle culture.
Edit: Holy shit. And their "apology" was "you guys were never meant to see that. Those letters were for the judge, not the public." Fucking scumbags. I thought Kutcher was wholesome.
Not making any accusations here, but:
You know how child predators often seek out professions where they have access and authority over children (like preachers, teachers, coaches, etc)? Well, wouldn’t it be a benefit to a predator and maybe a predatory organization to have influence and control in the child exploitation prevention field?
My understanding was that the other cast partied hard, and that was not Tophers thing. I suspect that Topher knew what Danny was, and avoid Danny when he could.
Danny being charismatic and fun, most of the cast hung out with Danny. So Topher did not hangout with the cast.
She lied at the audition, that is clear. They knew by the time the contracts had to be signed. Underage actors need a teacher (I forget the technnical terms). No one involved in That 70s show got into legal trouble over her age and a lack of schooling. It would have been in the news by now.
She lied at the audition but once she got the role they knew she was 14. When they sexualized her and made the whole adult cast kiss a 14 years old girl they knew what they were doing.
Topher had always been against any kind of storyline or even a kiss or anything between Eric and Jacky because he didn't want to kiss a kid.
The quote from Kunis is something like "I said I was going to be 18, I just didn't say when".
She wasn't signing any contract without it becoming known though.
The other cast members were Scientologists, Topher wanted nothing to do with it. Danny was also a Scientologists hence the letters asking for leniency.
Masterson’s ex(then girlfriend) was literally not allowed to talk to Topher because Masterson hated him so much. She said he was the ringleader of a cult of personality on that set and had everyone wrapped around his finger, and hated Topher. Based on that story, I think Topher was more a victim of bullying than an asshole but who knows what really went down.
Dated Mandy Moore when she was 16 and he was 20. Bragged about taking her virginity and comparing it to pies. She later claimed false about the former but that he’s still a good guy.
No, apparently she quit, but I was doing some reading and apparently she tried to convince one of the rape victims to stay quiet back in the day, and the victim then had to fight the statute of limitations? This is even more messed up than what I expected. Fucking scientology man. It's like the pedo priests thing all over again.
Scientology has a huge CSA problem, and since it's against Hubbard's doctrine to report another scientologist to the police they almost always get away with it.
I read the testimony of one of Danny's victims and it was straight up horrifying. He didn't just rape her, he drugged her and held a gun to her head as he assaulted her. It was preplanned and violent. And every one of those character letters were written AFTER he was convicted so those women had already testified and there was enough evidence for him to be found guilty and they all defended him anyway. It's sickening.
This is not what a character statement is for and it’s gross that people put it this way. It’s important that every single person on trial be afforded the same rights and processes and this is one of them. In no way does it mean the person writing the letter doesn’t think the guilty party is guilty, and even if it they did it doesn’t matter because we have as fair a legal system as you can hope for that doesn’t take their word into account.
Character letters like this are meant to give the judge a frame of reference for how well the defendant could actually reform and re-enter society at some point. In an ideal world, EVERYONE would get these letters.
And even before that they all ostracised Topher, setting up the clique that was eventually exposed as a disgusting abusive criminal support gang.
Before the conviction, Topher looked like an outsider but it tuens out he was the normal one who doesn't like people who are into domestic violence and felonious unconsentual sex.
Hey i am maybe having slightly Problems to understand the fine Details. Is a letter of Support such a thing as "Hey Judge listen, i know him and he is a nice guy i doubt that he have done it"?
In this case, I believe he was already convicted but the judge still needed to sentence him, so it was more of a “Hey judge listen, I know him and he is a nice guy, so go easy on him”
People can laude Kutcher for all the work he did funding an organization that helped CP victims. And he surely did help…
But the dude said, on Punk’d, literally on TV, that he was “waiting for Hillary Duff to turn 18, her and the Olsen twins” when Duff was 15, the Olsens 16 and he was 25…
Someone needs to look at his computers.
No wonder he was pals with Masterson. I’m sure the folks at the Scientology cult would stop that from happening…
Is the person at the top of the image supposed to be the actor for Red Foreman? Or is he someone else? I want to know if and why someone with as much character as Red would say those things. :(
I was wondering that upon first look at the meme. Good on Topher.
To clarify, it's 30 to life, meaning an indeterminate sentence with eligibility of parole, but not guaranteed. He could spend the rest of his life in prison.
The conspiracy speculation goes, that he went to his recently murdered then-girlfriend's house and may have seen/found signs of the murder, and called Masterson for help, who in turn got Scientology involved, and that that's what they've got on him.
As I write that out, it seems more plausible Ashton had a lapse in judgment writing the letter and didn't think it would go public.
In Ashton's defense, he was quite close with Danny for years. I'm sure we all know someone who we only saw the chill side of until we were blinded to the asshole they really were.
Obviously it's good that it blew up in his face though. That's how you learn to be more careful who you defend in the future.
I think it's also important to note that he didn't so much defend Masterson as he did make a statement about how the charges don't match the person that he knew for such a long time, and that he was still just trying to make sense of it all and make it make sense. There was some talk about the good sides that Ashton had experienced, and I think a lot of people take that as a "he can't be a rapist, look at how generous he is", but I just took that as more "this is the guy I knew, idk how to even process this new I formation".
It's kind of a rough spot to be in. Believe all victims, but also trust your friends, but also do what is right immediately and don't make any mistakes. He and the rest of the cast seem to have taken the (unfortunately) safe option and tried to not take a stance, and I personally think *that* is what they screwed up. They should have taken a firmer stance and condemned his actions wholeheartedly. While I understand why they may not have wanted to do that for various reasons, it's what they should have done and they absolutely deserve to be shamed for it.
That being said, I don't think we should judge any of them as whole people over this one event, especially since none of us knows exactly what their situations were and what the motivation or reasoning was behind this decision. If my brother was accused of rape, I would believe the accuser but have a very hard time making that make sense in regards to my own experiences with him. While Ashton and Masterson are not biological brothers, they have acted like brothers for decades, and called each other family on numerous occasions, so the connection is still a strong one. Strong enough for this situation to add emotional complexities to the equation, which can make it hard to know what the right thing to do even is. Instead, we should judge this event and rightfully criticize their character statements, but judge each individual based on their behavior as a whole. We all make mistakes, and I don't believe that this was done in any sort of malicious manner.
Having experienced a person I knew in a community role for years, thought the world of, do something horrible during those years…. - the defendants ask for these letters from select people.
Seeing others I deeply respect struggle with the question, “should I write a character letter?” The reality is that there is more to a person than their charge or crime. I have heard the nervousness and guilt in people’s voices as we discussed whether to write a letter or not. Either way, it was a losing situation.
Ultimately, do you ignore and shun alllll this positive you’ve had with a person for a (big) mistake? Do you ignore the fact that this person’s choice potentially destroyed others?
Nobody wins. Ultimately, many in my personal experience felt the impact on others’ lives outweighed the positive character experiences we were able to share.
The conspiracies might have merit. Though from my understanding of Hollywood, these kind of letters are like get well soon cards. Most don't even know what the charges are because they can't be bothered with it. It's just a way to keep your network strong, so you can keep getting work.
As sick as it is, that's why even if they do know something they won't speak up. Why cause a fuss and be labeled a rat, and, 'it's none of my business anyway'. Narcissist thrive in this persona maintenance industry, so most of the industry is contaminated with this toxicity.
I don't think it is that unbelievable, this was a person that he considered a close friend for a long time in his life, and he was asking for leniency over, not complete forgiveness.
The fact is it's easy to shit on him for it because most people have never or will never be in his shoes.
If I found out my lifelong friend or sibling did something like this and then pleaded with me to write a letter I would be so torn because it would be hard to picture them as the villian they may be when I have spent my life believing them to be a great friend, and honestly I got no idea what I would do in that position and hope I never find out.
If you looked into what they actually did, it was really shitty. The organization basically used a program to create a database that contained the information of many sex workers on top of abuse victims. Idk if I have to explain that keeping records on a group that's already criminalized and victimized is bad.
They also fall into the usual trappings that most "anti-trafficking" organizations fall into, that being that their numbers end up overinflated, the perception of human trafficking created by them doesn't square with reality, and that they're long term unhelpful to victims.
Yea it's weird how compassion works and the complexities of relationships that is part of the human experience. FFS, the world isn't just black and white
He probably was pressured to write the letter for Masterson by Scientologist leaders. Scientology was trying their best to cover this up for a loooong fucking time.
I'm not trying to defend him here, more explain, but a lot of people are just biased when it's someone they know personally and care about. Their brain practically makes up reasons to excuse them and it's possible many of their personal interactions were good, painting a very different picture in their minds of that person than everyone else viewing a distant celebrity.
It's like when you see a parent continue to believe in the innocence of their clearly guilty child.
I'm not saying that's ok, it's just how some people are.
Because Michael Ironside should be casted as the forever BTK killer
https://preview.redd.it/5zfpp3dfo79d1.jpeg?width=887&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87dd2f5566eec5ce9f0d11ceed083fb57f882d67
It still boggles my fucking mind that those last two (forgot their fucking names for whatever reason) would defend a rapist after their work in stopping child trafficking.
Like it's one thing to defend their friend (I'd assume so cause why else would they bother) if nothing had been proven yet, but there was no fucking doubt at the time they wrote the letters.
Hope this upcoming long-distance friendship is worth losing so much fucking face. How embarrassing.
The theory is Scientology.
Masterson was (they kicked him out after the sentencing) a known Scientologists.
Kutcher and and Kunis have public said they are not Scientologists, hower there have been rumours for a while, and the letters they wrote were apparently seeded with Scientology sentences and phrases. So it may be that the "church" put pressure on them to try and protect one of their own.
A religion protecting abusers is old hat at this point. 😔
The difference is actually money. Scientology was declared to be a religion by the IRS in 1993
People hear the word cult and think Jim Jones and the Koolaid Crew or David Koresh running guns to become Jesus. The truth is that a religion isn't a religion unless Uncle Sam says so. All other religious organizations are cults. The negative connotations come from people who only have exposure to the publicized cults and cults are only publicized if something bad happens
That said, scientology is weird and the government recognizing them because they spend enough money doesn't make them a good organization
All of the younger members either were/are Scientologists (Danny Masterson, his brother Chris who was the boyfriend of Laura Prepon, and Prepon) or connected with Scientology (Kunis, Kutcher and Valderrama - they attended many events at The Celebrity Centre).
There is speculation that both Kurtwood Smith and Debra Jo Rupp are also Scientologists as well (possibly got in by Danny Masterson).
Only Topher Grace had nothing to do with Scientology, and didn't really hang out with the others.
I was sickened when Smith, Rupp, Kunis and Kutcher wrote letters to the judge asking for leniency during Masterson's rape trial 😡
One good thing is that Prepon is no longer involved with the cult of Scientology.
For years fans have talked shit about Topher Grace for not being irl pals with everyone. The actors playing his best friend and gf were both Scientologists. I’d be “too busy” to hang out after work to. It always made perfect sense to me.
Topher grace single handedly saves Spiderman 3 and people respect him for that, everyone else supported the scientologist who rapd those 3 women.
It's a bad look to defend a raper
The most obvious twist ever? You didn't see such an obvious twist coming? He literally had his own little special scene with his knife and poison flower.
Sancho, fetch my horse. We have menials to slay.
I will admit, the character was most definitely trying to hard to be like "oh no, I'm so weak and defenseless, they must have taken me by mistake!" That I wasn't surprised by the twist at all
Slightly off topic but my ex's dad worked on the set of 70s Show. We were invited to set during season 2 filming. We received the following information about the r*pist and Topher:
Topher: decent guy, not social. You don't have to actively avoid him, but don't expect him to be excited that you're present or go out of his way to say hello.
R*pist: do not talk to him. If he enters a space where you are the only 3 people present, leave and come find me immediately.
People have known for a long time that Masterson is a predator. Neither of us spoke with him, but the sleazy vibes could be felt from far away. I'm glad he finally got some level of comeuppance
People often confuse not being social with being an accrual asshole. Being nice and being mean are not the only options. There is also just being there. Could be Topher just wants to do his job and then go live his life, not be friends with everyone- and if you're not actively being an asshole that seems fair.
Shocking that he didn't want to be friends with sketchy guy and the scientology crew.
I too would like to know. There is a distinction between “this guy is dangerous to young girls” and “this guy is just flat out fuckin dangerous in general.” It’s not MUCH of a distinction but I’m curious.
To be fair, being mildly supportive of a bad person doesn’t necessarily make you a bad person.
There is a cognitive dissonance thing when you learn that somebody that you liked is secretly a bad person, so maybe they don’t believe he did the things he was accused of doing. Or maybe they do, but they want to ‘get him help’ and don’t think this is representative of who he is as a person.
I’ll admit I don’t know much about the story though
They all wrote character letters and asked for leniency during the sentencing of convicted r*pist Danny Masterson. There’s a BIG difference between supporting a friend and then vouching for them and requesting leniency after conviction of something horrible like r*pe
I recently came to the realization that a friend of mine was a rapist. Ashamed to say,that it took me longer than it should have to end the friendship and push him away. Think it was disbelief, and giving him the benefit of the doubt
I heard that Topher Grace wasnt as close to and wouldnt hang out with the other cast members outside the show’s studio. It makes sense now if that’s true. Probably didnt fit in with them for the right reasons.
To add context behind the content of the meme (the explanation is done well in other comments such as /u/mineralwatermike's)
On the left side is shots from an iconic scene in the movie "Half Baked" where the character rage-quits his demeaning fast food cook job in epic fashion.
On the right are actors from That 70's Show:
* Kurtwood Smith (Red Foreman)
* Debra Jo Rupp (Kitty Foreman)
* Topher Grace (Eric Foreman)
* Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis (Kelso and Jackie)
Hyde (Masterson) always did seem like a pretentious piece of shit… and a rapist. I didn’t quite care for the cast though. Topher seems like a smug schmuck. They all sucked, except for Midge, she was milfy
If your really good friend you've had for 20+ years was going to prison for something he did, potentially for a very long time, you would likely write a letter too.
This isn't uncommon, nearly every person who is sentenced has character references and nearly every single time the people who knew them the longest do it. This fire and brimstone punishment craving we have on the internet now is fine and all when it is a stranger, but when it is your childhood friend it isn't so easy to reconcile that with your emotions. There is a cognitive dissonance between what they've done and who you believe them to be.
If they ever asserted he was innocent this would be a big deal, but I'm not giving anyone shit for doing something almost everyone does in these situations.
How dare you bring human experience into this! There is no room for nuance or thought! Get on the band wagon!
Most people that liked the show and characters probably felt the same way when they first heard the news. I know I did. For a short period of time everyone felt the same way as all the other people on that show, denial, except we did't know them and got past it much, much faster then his friends did.
"He raped / sexually abused people but he made good sarcastic acting about 10 years ago so he only deserves a slap on the wrist" God i hope none of these folks work again.
Danny masterson( hyde from that 70s show) drugged and raped a lot of people over the past few decades. When they final3started to come forward much of the cast showed him public support. Those pictured even wrote letters to the judge extoling his virtues and asking for leniancy.
Which backfired on all of them and even led to the revelation of other dark secrets . Like Wilmer Valderrama (Fez) possibly being a Pedo.
And Danny ended up getting 30 to life. A youtuber named JD delay has been following it very closely
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Danny Masterson (another star of that 70’s show) was convicted on two counts of rape. Everyone pictured except Topher wrote letters to the judge, supporting Masterson and asking for leniency in sentencing. Masterson got 30 to life.
It's interesting because Topher (Eric) reportedly didn't get along with most of the cast, which would make sense as to why he didn't write a letter of support for Danny while the others did.
That's hilarious. Topher avoided being a massive asshole by just generally being an unpleasant asshole.
Maybe he just had "bad vibes" about the rest of the cast, and they labeled him as "being an asshole." 🤷♂️
Nah, he’s a confirmed asshole, look at what people have said about him in other works he’s been in like Spider-Man 3. He’s a douche amongst douches, but at least he’s not a rapist. It’s the rare occasion where an asshole still has a sense of morality
He's a dick, not an asshole. See, there's three kinds of people out there, Chuck...
Dicks, pussies, and assholes chuck!
If you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to get our dicks *and* our pussies all covered in shit.
You are all true heroes
Remember, freedom costs a buck-o-five
Agreed!
https://i.redd.it/xs2p0gjo3c9d1.gif
Top notch Gary. Now suck my cock!
This has no right making as much sense as it does
Pussies hate dicks because they get fucked by them, but Dicks also fuck assholes!
But assholes shit all over everyone!
You had me at "Dicks fuck Assholes".
Fucking vaginas man
Everyone's favorite superhero!
He may be an... "a-hole", but he's not, and I quote, "100% a dick".
Do you believe him?
Well, I don't know if I believe anyone is 100% a dick
This is the third Team America reference I've seen in the wild today. Is the Universe trying to tell me something??
Act fast!
America!! Fuck yeah!! Here to save the muthafuckin day, yeah!!
*pukes violently in the alley*
From what I've heard and seen it's not even he's an asshole. Just to him it was a job. He clocks in. Works. Has pride in work he likes. And doesn't really see coworkers as friends nor family. I think that's very valid
I think that’s healthier than pretending like acting is “the deepest work of the soul” and claiming “my coworkers unlocked worlds within me” or something. Every job is a job is a job.
Yes as I recall (from Reddit threads - so take with a grain of salt), the rest of the cast would go out to clubs and parties together and Topher would rather just go home so naturally the cast didn’t like him, thought he’s a snob etc.
I legit think you’re confusing the reputations of Topher Grace and Tobey Maguire.
100%. Molly's Game actor X who made her "bark like a seal" for tips, is Tobey Maguire -- and wasn't he also part of Leo's "posse"? (ugh don't make me say the full name) Compare that to Topher, who just clocked in and out of his job
I think that's exactly what's going on. Spiderman 3 just clinches it lol
Both Tobey MacGuire and Topher Grace were in Spiderman 3. Topher played Eddie Brock/Venom.
Yeah that's what clinches it. Guys probly confused cuz they're both in it
[Going to leave this right here](https://youtu.be/Q4OjhQVnE9w?si=5d6ASBMiEW7nDQYy)
Is this true? I cant find anything about that anywhere
I also can’t find this online
It's a monologue in team America.
I don't think Team America is supposed to be taken as fact but I might be wrong. Matt Damon might really be only capable od 2 words and maybe hes made of wood.
Can you link a first hand source? Everything I've ever read was basically just that he wasn't really into hanging out with the rest of the cast after shooting, showed up, did his job, got paid, and left. The only sources that say he was an asshole is Ashton Kutcher, who is a deeply sanctimonious and narcissistic human being, Mila Kunis, who is a liar and a narcissist, and Danny, who I don't even need to get into. Maybe the guy who stayed in his lane and did his job wasn't the asshole. Maybe the assholes were the little pack of young sitcom socialites that felt insecure because one of their costars wasn't as enamored with them as they were of themselves.
Same here. Pretty sure I remembering seeing that he didn’t get a long with them either due to some if not most of them being into Scientology. If anything I just think he didn’t vibe with the cast, which there’s nothing wrong with that. You don’t have to completely like your coworkers.
Pretty sure your confusing him with Tobey Maguire. The only thing I ever heard about Topher personally is that he's an amazing film editor and his star wars prequel edit is somewhat legendary
At this point, I trust the assholes more. Sure, they suck, but if they had something terrible in the closet everyone around them has a motive to hang them with it. It's the super charming ones that are the most suspect because everyone wants to protect them. With how many insane narcissists go into entertainment, being unpopular in the industry is kind of a green flag.
What are you on about? There's no source for this anyway, you literally just made that up
People said he was a douche on the set of Spiderman 3? The movie where he played Eddie Brock/Venom? A douchebag and the villain? It's almost like he was in character or something.
Lots of people play villains and douchebags without being personally labeled as such by coworkers
Not me
Know thyself
Lmao yeah but being a douche off screen when filming is done speaks more to his character than anything else. But like I said, at least he’s not a rapist
What are your thoughts on jim carrey?
Oof mixed bag. Love his work, but Scientology is for morons, so hard to say. I personally signed up for Scientology just to see what they’re about and holy shit it’s idiots from the ground up
I don't think Jim Carrey *is* a scientologist. If so, this is the first time I've ever seen/heard it mentioned and I've been watching his career since the days of Fire Marshall Bill on In Living Color. He had a GF who passed away that seems to have been one but that's all I've seen mentioned of his name and scientology.
How are you linking Jim Carrey to scientology? Are you thinking Tom Cruise or someone else? I cant find anything suggesting as much. Upvoted garbage.
His whole “I’m channeling Andy Kauffman” was really dickish.
Is he a scientologist? I know that one Irish woman he dated, who killed herself after he gave her some STIs and broke up with her, had been a scientologist; but I never heard of him being involved in that. I have heard of him being involved with those Maharishi schools that teach transcendental meditation, and they do charge people absurd rates, but they don't seem to be anywhere near as ridiculous or as abusive as the Church of Scientology One thing I do judge him for is repeating some of Jenny McCarthy's anti-vax stuff back when he lived with her. I hope he's gotten better on that issue but I don't really know
Wait. You signed up for scientology? Say more. Tell me stories!
Apparently he custom edited Star Wars episodes 1-3 into a fairly likeable movie and would pay to screen it in small theaters for his small group of cinephiles/acting peers.
He was playing a man-eating oil-slick from outer space. It's not a role that requires method acting. If he's still being a dick when the camera's off, then that's because he's a dick in general.
Sorry what? You think this justifies being an asshole how?
I mean, it's not like he mailed anal beads and used condoms to everyone. Edit: sarcasm. Just to be sure. Sarcasm.
convicted murderers hate and kill chomos (prison slang for pedo) in prison all the time of course an asshole who hates everybody hates a rapist way more
As far as I know he's the only one without scientology ties as well
Or, ya know, just wasn't into the cult of scientology.
As I understand it, he wasn't unpleasant, just wasn't interested in being friends. Alot of the cast were seen partying alot and he was always portrayed as the introvert. This is all tabloid info, but as I understand it, none of the cast ever said he was miserable.
Yeah from what I've heard/read from various sources of varying trustworthiness, the cast would party and stuff, he wouldn't go, a lot of people have put together timelines that suggest already inappropriate stuff was probably happening he may have been avoiding.
https://preview.redd.it/2rg7wqmhd89d1.jpeg?width=550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db42ef820c499ae5ba9132f1fd1a7cf81dc2b4ca
That wasn’t what happened at all Danny Masterson pretty much lead the whole that 70’s cast into scientology
From my understanding, Topher has never liked Masterson, but everyone else loved him. He and Ashton would do things like kiss Kunis without her permission and generally be a bully. Also, everyone else is involved or has been involved in scientology. I don't understand why they aren't talked about more as they are an actual shadow organization that controls a lot of power in our country. I'm almost positive Topher not joining scientology is why his career kind of fizzled out. And although no one can prove it, a lot of people believe Ashton might have murdered his ex-girlfriend, and Scientologists helped him cover it up and get away with it.
That's wild with Ashton because of all the charitable work he's done to stop child exploitation. He and Kunis made a charity ffs. And I remember the video of him testifying as a witness on a sex trafficking case in front of congress. Guess it's always career before morals with the Hollywood types. Hustle culture. Edit: Holy shit. And their "apology" was "you guys were never meant to see that. Those letters were for the judge, not the public." Fucking scumbags. I thought Kutcher was wholesome.
Not making any accusations here, but: You know how child predators often seek out professions where they have access and authority over children (like preachers, teachers, coaches, etc)? Well, wouldn’t it be a benefit to a predator and maybe a predatory organization to have influence and control in the child exploitation prevention field?
>I don't understand why they aren't talked about more They are *extremely* litigious
I met topher at like 2am one night in a stressful situation. Honestly one of the nicest celebrities I’ve ever met besides Kevin Hart
My understanding was that the other cast partied hard, and that was not Tophers thing. I suspect that Topher knew what Danny was, and avoid Danny when he could. Danny being charismatic and fun, most of the cast hung out with Danny. So Topher did not hangout with the cast.
Also the fact the cast had no problem sexualise Milah when she was only 14 and Topher was like "Hell no".
Didn’t she lie to get that role?
She lied at the audition, that is clear. They knew by the time the contracts had to be signed. Underage actors need a teacher (I forget the technnical terms). No one involved in That 70s show got into legal trouble over her age and a lack of schooling. It would have been in the news by now.
She lied at the audition but once she got the role they knew she was 14. When they sexualized her and made the whole adult cast kiss a 14 years old girl they knew what they were doing. Topher had always been against any kind of storyline or even a kiss or anything between Eric and Jacky because he didn't want to kiss a kid.
The quote from Kunis is something like "I said I was going to be 18, I just didn't say when". She wasn't signing any contract without it becoming known though.
The other cast members were Scientologists, Topher wanted nothing to do with it. Danny was also a Scientologists hence the letters asking for leniency.
Also syndication money and a rape convention kills all the reruns and money those stars will get.
Masterson’s ex(then girlfriend) was literally not allowed to talk to Topher because Masterson hated him so much. She said he was the ringleader of a cult of personality on that set and had everyone wrapped around his finger, and hated Topher. Based on that story, I think Topher was more a victim of bullying than an asshole but who knows what really went down.
Just to clarify, cause you aren't saying the contrary, Donna and Fez's actors didn't write letters of support for the rapist either.
True - “everyone *pictured here*, except Topher, wrote letters”
I wouldn't be so quick to put Fez's actor in with Topher though, he's got his own things going on
Like?
He dated Demi Lovato when she was 17 (he was 29 at the time)
Damn.
He went out with a teenager when he was almost 30.
*Seinfeld bass slaps*
Dated Mandy Moore when she was 16 and he was 20. Bragged about taking her virginity and comparing it to pies. She later claimed false about the former but that he’s still a good guy.
Lindsay Lohan when she was 16...
Is the actress who plays Donna still a Scientologist?
No, apparently she quit, but I was doing some reading and apparently she tried to convince one of the rape victims to stay quiet back in the day, and the victim then had to fight the statute of limitations? This is even more messed up than what I expected. Fucking scientology man. It's like the pedo priests thing all over again.
Scientology has a huge CSA problem, and since it's against Hubbard's doctrine to report another scientologist to the police they almost always get away with it.
In a well meaning "I think he's innocent" way or in a "he's guilty but spare him because famous" way?
As I understand it, "He's guilty, but he's more than *just* a rapist. Everyone has some redeeming qualities; let me tell you how nice he was to me."
I read the testimony of one of Danny's victims and it was straight up horrifying. He didn't just rape her, he drugged her and held a gun to her head as he assaulted her. It was preplanned and violent. And every one of those character letters were written AFTER he was convicted so those women had already testified and there was enough evidence for him to be found guilty and they all defended him anyway. It's sickening.
Yeah I don’t think writing the letter is a bad thing as long as they told the truth. The judge will make the right call in view of all evidence
Both. Character witness. AKA, "they are lying, my friend isn't a rapist". And then "ok, he is a rapist, but spare him".
This is not what a character statement is for and it’s gross that people put it this way. It’s important that every single person on trial be afforded the same rights and processes and this is one of them. In no way does it mean the person writing the letter doesn’t think the guilty party is guilty, and even if it they did it doesn’t matter because we have as fair a legal system as you can hope for that doesn’t take their word into account. Character letters like this are meant to give the judge a frame of reference for how well the defendant could actually reform and re-enter society at some point. In an ideal world, EVERYONE would get these letters.
And even before that they all ostracised Topher, setting up the clique that was eventually exposed as a disgusting abusive criminal support gang. Before the conviction, Topher looked like an outsider but it tuens out he was the normal one who doesn't like people who are into domestic violence and felonious unconsentual sex.
Hey i am maybe having slightly Problems to understand the fine Details. Is a letter of Support such a thing as "Hey Judge listen, i know him and he is a nice guy i doubt that he have done it"?
In this case, I believe he was already convicted but the judge still needed to sentence him, so it was more of a “Hey judge listen, I know him and he is a nice guy, so go easy on him”
People can laude Kutcher for all the work he did funding an organization that helped CP victims. And he surely did help… But the dude said, on Punk’d, literally on TV, that he was “waiting for Hillary Duff to turn 18, her and the Olsen twins” when Duff was 15, the Olsens 16 and he was 25… Someone needs to look at his computers. No wonder he was pals with Masterson. I’m sure the folks at the Scientology cult would stop that from happening…
I heard his software was used to target adult prostitutes more than actually helping underage victim's
Really? Disappointing. Or as Red would say "dumbasses"
Topher: "i like being good, it makes me happy"
Is the person at the top of the image supposed to be the actor for Red Foreman? Or is he someone else? I want to know if and why someone with as much character as Red would say those things. :(
I was wondering that upon first look at the meme. Good on Topher. To clarify, it's 30 to life, meaning an indeterminate sentence with eligibility of parole, but not guaranteed. He could spend the rest of his life in prison.
[удалено]
Yes... That's literally where the meme comes from lol
Yeah…but this comment was first mention of that and I had to scroll for a while to reach it…
Looked in to it yeah they suck
It's wild to me that Ashton Kutcher would write a letter on behalf of Masterson considering that he created a company to combat child sexual abuse.
He stepped down from the Board of that group due to the backlash from the letter. Rightfully so…how did he not see that coming
I bet he did, and that scientology had something to do with it. What kind of blackmail it was is beyond me.
The conspiracy speculation goes, that he went to his recently murdered then-girlfriend's house and may have seen/found signs of the murder, and called Masterson for help, who in turn got Scientology involved, and that that's what they've got on him. As I write that out, it seems more plausible Ashton had a lapse in judgment writing the letter and didn't think it would go public.
In Ashton's defense, he was quite close with Danny for years. I'm sure we all know someone who we only saw the chill side of until we were blinded to the asshole they really were. Obviously it's good that it blew up in his face though. That's how you learn to be more careful who you defend in the future.
I think it's also important to note that he didn't so much defend Masterson as he did make a statement about how the charges don't match the person that he knew for such a long time, and that he was still just trying to make sense of it all and make it make sense. There was some talk about the good sides that Ashton had experienced, and I think a lot of people take that as a "he can't be a rapist, look at how generous he is", but I just took that as more "this is the guy I knew, idk how to even process this new I formation". It's kind of a rough spot to be in. Believe all victims, but also trust your friends, but also do what is right immediately and don't make any mistakes. He and the rest of the cast seem to have taken the (unfortunately) safe option and tried to not take a stance, and I personally think *that* is what they screwed up. They should have taken a firmer stance and condemned his actions wholeheartedly. While I understand why they may not have wanted to do that for various reasons, it's what they should have done and they absolutely deserve to be shamed for it. That being said, I don't think we should judge any of them as whole people over this one event, especially since none of us knows exactly what their situations were and what the motivation or reasoning was behind this decision. If my brother was accused of rape, I would believe the accuser but have a very hard time making that make sense in regards to my own experiences with him. While Ashton and Masterson are not biological brothers, they have acted like brothers for decades, and called each other family on numerous occasions, so the connection is still a strong one. Strong enough for this situation to add emotional complexities to the equation, which can make it hard to know what the right thing to do even is. Instead, we should judge this event and rightfully criticize their character statements, but judge each individual based on their behavior as a whole. We all make mistakes, and I don't believe that this was done in any sort of malicious manner.
Having experienced a person I knew in a community role for years, thought the world of, do something horrible during those years…. - the defendants ask for these letters from select people. Seeing others I deeply respect struggle with the question, “should I write a character letter?” The reality is that there is more to a person than their charge or crime. I have heard the nervousness and guilt in people’s voices as we discussed whether to write a letter or not. Either way, it was a losing situation. Ultimately, do you ignore and shun alllll this positive you’ve had with a person for a (big) mistake? Do you ignore the fact that this person’s choice potentially destroyed others? Nobody wins. Ultimately, many in my personal experience felt the impact on others’ lives outweighed the positive character experiences we were able to share.
The conspiracies might have merit. Though from my understanding of Hollywood, these kind of letters are like get well soon cards. Most don't even know what the charges are because they can't be bothered with it. It's just a way to keep your network strong, so you can keep getting work. As sick as it is, that's why even if they do know something they won't speak up. Why cause a fuss and be labeled a rat, and, 'it's none of my business anyway'. Narcissist thrive in this persona maintenance industry, so most of the industry is contaminated with this toxicity.
Scientology.
I don't think it is that unbelievable, this was a person that he considered a close friend for a long time in his life, and he was asking for leniency over, not complete forgiveness. The fact is it's easy to shit on him for it because most people have never or will never be in his shoes. If I found out my lifelong friend or sibling did something like this and then pleaded with me to write a letter I would be so torn because it would be hard to picture them as the villian they may be when I have spent my life believing them to be a great friend, and honestly I got no idea what I would do in that position and hope I never find out.
If you looked into what they actually did, it was really shitty. The organization basically used a program to create a database that contained the information of many sex workers on top of abuse victims. Idk if I have to explain that keeping records on a group that's already criminalized and victimized is bad. They also fall into the usual trappings that most "anti-trafficking" organizations fall into, that being that their numbers end up overinflated, the perception of human trafficking created by them doesn't square with reality, and that they're long term unhelpful to victims.
I’ve disliked Ashton Kutcher ever since his character sucked on two and a half men.
To be fair, that show was so far down the tube even before he came on.
Sucked off 5 dwarves huh?
As you would turn down that much money for selling out a little bit
How did he fellate half a man?
Also wasn’t what’s her name underage when she started on that show?
Yea it's weird how compassion works and the complexities of relationships that is part of the human experience. FFS, the world isn't just black and white
He probably was pressured to write the letter for Masterson by Scientologist leaders. Scientology was trying their best to cover this up for a loooong fucking time.
I'm not trying to defend him here, more explain, but a lot of people are just biased when it's someone they know personally and care about. Their brain practically makes up reasons to excuse them and it's possible many of their personal interactions were good, painting a very different picture in their minds of that person than everyone else viewing a distant celebrity. It's like when you see a parent continue to believe in the innocence of their clearly guilty child. I'm not saying that's ok, it's just how some people are.
Off Topic Peter here... how has Kurtwood Smith never been cast as the BTK killer?
Because Michael Ironside should be casted as the forever BTK killer https://preview.redd.it/5zfpp3dfo79d1.jpeg?width=887&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87dd2f5566eec5ce9f0d11ceed083fb57f882d67
https://preview.redd.it/gw74cgxwo79d1.jpeg?width=737&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe1626ccda270a6bd9bfc7080185697cd12e5d4e BTK killer
I thought this was Walter White at first glance. Might want Bryan Cranston for the role.
I thought it was Jack Nicholson
Seriously, I have a hard time telling young Kurtwood Smith and young Michael Ironsides apart until one of them starts talking
I think this every time I see him, lol.
It still boggles my fucking mind that those last two (forgot their fucking names for whatever reason) would defend a rapist after their work in stopping child trafficking. Like it's one thing to defend their friend (I'd assume so cause why else would they bother) if nothing had been proven yet, but there was no fucking doubt at the time they wrote the letters. Hope this upcoming long-distance friendship is worth losing so much fucking face. How embarrassing.
The theory is Scientology. Masterson was (they kicked him out after the sentencing) a known Scientologists. Kutcher and and Kunis have public said they are not Scientologists, hower there have been rumours for a while, and the letters they wrote were apparently seeded with Scientology sentences and phrases. So it may be that the "church" put pressure on them to try and protect one of their own. A religion protecting abusers is old hat at this point. 😔
*Cult
Whats the difference?
The difference is actually money. Scientology was declared to be a religion by the IRS in 1993 People hear the word cult and think Jim Jones and the Koolaid Crew or David Koresh running guns to become Jesus. The truth is that a religion isn't a religion unless Uncle Sam says so. All other religious organizations are cults. The negative connotations come from people who only have exposure to the publicized cults and cults are only publicized if something bad happens That said, scientology is weird and the government recognizing them because they spend enough money doesn't make them a good organization
I hate how corrupt the word "cult" has become. Only two thousand years ago it was such a positive thing!
Religions freely let you leave. Cults make it hard.
All of the younger members either were/are Scientologists (Danny Masterson, his brother Chris who was the boyfriend of Laura Prepon, and Prepon) or connected with Scientology (Kunis, Kutcher and Valderrama - they attended many events at The Celebrity Centre). There is speculation that both Kurtwood Smith and Debra Jo Rupp are also Scientologists as well (possibly got in by Danny Masterson). Only Topher Grace had nothing to do with Scientology, and didn't really hang out with the others. I was sickened when Smith, Rupp, Kunis and Kutcher wrote letters to the judge asking for leniency during Masterson's rape trial 😡 One good thing is that Prepon is no longer involved with the cult of Scientology.
For years fans have talked shit about Topher Grace for not being irl pals with everyone. The actors playing his best friend and gf were both Scientologists. I’d be “too busy” to hang out after work to. It always made perfect sense to me.
Really this speaks volumes to his skills as an actor
Topher grace single handedly saves Spiderman 3 and people respect him for that, everyone else supported the scientologist who rapd those 3 women. It's a bad look to defend a raper
I'm happy when he shows up in things. He's so damn adequate.
He does a pretty good job in Predators. Trouble is everything else about that movie is pretty lousy.
I legit >!didn't see that twist coming!<. Granted, I was probably high and drunk in the theater at the time...
Same here. I love the franchise, but that was about the only thing redeeming that movie.
Lol have you seen "The Predator"?? At least Predators wasn't that hot pile of garbage
Yes. The difference is there are no redeemable aspects about that movie. We are very fortunate that they made Prey instead of The Predator 2
and then there was Prey… i hope they keep with that formula
The most obvious twist ever? You didn't see such an obvious twist coming? He literally had his own little special scene with his knife and poison flower. Sancho, fetch my horse. We have menials to slay.
I will admit, the character was most definitely trying to hard to be like "oh no, I'm so weak and defenseless, they must have taken me by mistake!" That I wasn't surprised by the twist at all
He played the perfect little prick in American Ultra.
Was great as David Duke in BlacKkKlansman.
He was so fucking insane and over the top in American Ultra. I loved it.
He’s good in “home economics” too, which is a sometimes corny but funny show on Hulu. He basically just plays a grown up Eric foreman
How tf did he save spider man 3
Yeah idk I like him but worst casting choice in that movie
Not that you're wrong on the rest of it... but he was genuinely the worst part of SM3.
Topher is the only non scientologist. All the others supported Danny Masterson; convicted of rape.
Slightly off topic but my ex's dad worked on the set of 70s Show. We were invited to set during season 2 filming. We received the following information about the r*pist and Topher: Topher: decent guy, not social. You don't have to actively avoid him, but don't expect him to be excited that you're present or go out of his way to say hello. R*pist: do not talk to him. If he enters a space where you are the only 3 people present, leave and come find me immediately. People have known for a long time that Masterson is a predator. Neither of us spoke with him, but the sleazy vibes could be felt from far away. I'm glad he finally got some level of comeuppance
People often confuse not being social with being an accrual asshole. Being nice and being mean are not the only options. There is also just being there. Could be Topher just wants to do his job and then go live his life, not be friends with everyone- and if you're not actively being an asshole that seems fair. Shocking that he didn't want to be friends with sketchy guy and the scientology crew.
Was the warning about Masterson issued because of your ex being a young girl? Or was it like: nobody should engage with him, period.
I too would like to know. There is a distinction between “this guy is dangerous to young girls” and “this guy is just flat out fuckin dangerous in general.” It’s not MUCH of a distinction but I’m curious.
Topher just sounds like an introvert
Who are the last two?
Mila Kunis and Ashton Kutcher
Oh wow, how did I not see it… Topher is aging better.
To be fair, being mildly supportive of a bad person doesn’t necessarily make you a bad person. There is a cognitive dissonance thing when you learn that somebody that you liked is secretly a bad person, so maybe they don’t believe he did the things he was accused of doing. Or maybe they do, but they want to ‘get him help’ and don’t think this is representative of who he is as a person. I’ll admit I don’t know much about the story though
They all wrote character letters and asked for leniency during the sentencing of convicted r*pist Danny Masterson. There’s a BIG difference between supporting a friend and then vouching for them and requesting leniency after conviction of something horrible like r*pe
I recently came to the realization that a friend of mine was a rapist. Ashamed to say,that it took me longer than it should have to end the friendship and push him away. Think it was disbelief, and giving him the benefit of the doubt
They were told to write character references, not just to tell the judge to go easy on him.
Somebody please explain
Topher Grace didn't defend a rapist, while the rest did
Danny Masterson the rapist and Scientologist!
I heard that Topher Grace wasnt as close to and wouldnt hang out with the other cast members outside the show’s studio. It makes sense now if that’s true. Probably didnt fit in with them for the right reasons.
Topher Grace did not pen a letter in support of Masterson. Everyone else did.
To add context behind the content of the meme (the explanation is done well in other comments such as /u/mineralwatermike's) On the left side is shots from an iconic scene in the movie "Half Baked" where the character rage-quits his demeaning fast food cook job in epic fashion. On the right are actors from That 70's Show: * Kurtwood Smith (Red Foreman) * Debra Jo Rupp (Kitty Foreman) * Topher Grace (Eric Foreman) * Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis (Kelso and Jackie)
Danny Masterson
Hyde (Masterson) always did seem like a pretentious piece of shit… and a rapist. I didn’t quite care for the cast though. Topher seems like a smug schmuck. They all sucked, except for Midge, she was milfy
This is yet another reason why I warn people against celebrity worship.
I always liked Topher. He seemed like a guy that just wanted to play D&D after work while everyone else goes out to party.
If your really good friend you've had for 20+ years was going to prison for something he did, potentially for a very long time, you would likely write a letter too. This isn't uncommon, nearly every person who is sentenced has character references and nearly every single time the people who knew them the longest do it. This fire and brimstone punishment craving we have on the internet now is fine and all when it is a stranger, but when it is your childhood friend it isn't so easy to reconcile that with your emotions. There is a cognitive dissonance between what they've done and who you believe them to be. If they ever asserted he was innocent this would be a big deal, but I'm not giving anyone shit for doing something almost everyone does in these situations.
How dare you bring human experience into this! There is no room for nuance or thought! Get on the band wagon! Most people that liked the show and characters probably felt the same way when they first heard the news. I know I did. For a short period of time everyone felt the same way as all the other people on that show, denial, except we did't know them and got past it much, much faster then his friends did.
"He raped / sexually abused people but he made good sarcastic acting about 10 years ago so he only deserves a slap on the wrist" God i hope none of these folks work again.
The short answer is Scientology
I still think red was the best character
Wait, I heard the stuff about Danny, Mila and Ashton before. What's the story with Kurtwood and Debra Jo?
To be fair, they didn’t know what the charges were if I remember correctly right. Much like Winestein and Clooney. If I’m wrong let me know.
Danny masterson( hyde from that 70s show) drugged and raped a lot of people over the past few decades. When they final3started to come forward much of the cast showed him public support. Those pictured even wrote letters to the judge extoling his virtues and asking for leniancy. Which backfired on all of them and even led to the revelation of other dark secrets . Like Wilmer Valderrama (Fez) possibly being a Pedo. And Danny ended up getting 30 to life. A youtuber named JD delay has been following it very closely
Would have been great if Topher also wrote a letter to the judge, but asking for the maximum sentence or death penalty lol.