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eto yung footnote na nakita ko about Malachi 2:16
*“I hate divorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “because the man who divorces his wife covers his garment with violence,”*
New international version:
“The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect,” says the LORD Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful.
idk. seems like its pretty neutral to me
Minsan Kasi, (well madalas) may mga tao na kukuha ng tidbits Mula sa bible na papabor sa gusto nila without reading it as a whole. Kung Hindi man ganun, literal Ang basa at walang comprehension. Bible can be good or bad depende sa may hawak nito.
Oo halos di nagbabasa bibliya mga Catholics di sila palamemorize unlike Protestants or Christians na napakakabisado ang salita ng bibliya yun lang di nila kabisado ang gawa.
Ahah Yes. Pero madami din naman talagang Christians na kausap mo pa lang sila alam mo totoo yung lakad nila with Christ. Madaming mabuting Katoliko at Kristiyano at maraming jerks. No. 1 na peke mga politicians na halatang corrupt and unapologetic wala man lang effort to hide garapalan corrupt tapos ginagamit faith or religion.
Agreed. It’s not even bible related, replace the Bible in your last sentence with something like statistics and you’ll see the exact same thing. A lot of people remove the nuance or don’t try to understand the whole picture before taking a hard stance on anything.
Ganyan Naman usually Yung kumukuha Ng bible verses, Kaya Wala ako tiwala SA MGA taong nagququote Ng bible verses. Hindi ko nilalahat pero majority ganyan 😂.
The verse is God's warning to unfaithful husbands and protection of their spouses, nowhere near justifying anti-divorce movements. They are delusional.
This takes divorce as a fact of life and not denouncing it. Like divorce is a choice you can make regardless of whether it's bad or not. Exactly how it should be.
Malachi 2:15-16 NIV
[15] Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth. [16] “The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect,” says the Lord Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful.
https://bible.com/bible/111/mal.2.15-16.NIV
Nice try. But out of context. Try harder!
As stated in the text Divorce is allowed according to the bible
Edit: also the text implies that divorce can be used as a form of abuse and should therefore have safeguards against this
**Grounds for Divorce**: In Matthew 19:9 (NIV), Jesus says, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." - Jesus acknowledges sexual immorality as a legitimate ground for divorce, indicating that unfaithfulness can break the marital covenant.
Sexual immorality here in the Greek (πορνεια) is more accurately expressed as fornication, agreed upon by most Greek scholars. This is just to clarify that you can’t just say, “they were sexually immoral, so I can divorce.” This makes it objective.
Actually, kung babasahin ang buong Malachi 2, ang takeaway ko dyan is galit ang Diyos sa mga lalakeng dinidivorce yung original wives nila to pursue other women of other faiths
Problema na nga reading comprehension sa Pinas tas papalalain pa ng mga ugok na yan hays
They always omit things i.e. child abuse by priests, etc. They will only address things when it blows up big time that they cannot cover up things anymore
Hehe i have friends na Christian man o Catholic they dont want to be identified as religious. Enough na sa kanila yung generic term, Christian.
Also, may iilan sa kanila hiwalay sa asawa, may alam nga akong bible study group ng puro single moms... previously married, separated... dahil unfaithfulness. Nagkabarka barkada lang sila pero welcome naman yung walang heart problems or happy in a relationship ganern hahaha
If babasahin yung Malachi 2:16, the Lord was urging people to guard their hearts and be faithful, and divorce in this case is the act na dahil infidel sa asawa, it's an act of separation from the spouse. Divorce was a consequence that the Lord hates!
Ang point, God placed the burden dun sa nagkasala, na wag gawin ang kasalanan. On the matter of divorce, magiging kasalanan siya sa Diyos if it is an active choice of leaving your partner na walang ginawa kundi mahalin at ipaglaban ka just because you're in love with someone else. Take note, the burden is on the one who broke the vows.
And nakalimutan ko yung ibang verses that relieves the burden sa "victims" ng unfaithfulness. Technically, applicable din ito sa victims ng domestic violence, etc. Divorce is a consequence of the sin against them, for the offenders sinned against the Lord. Tama lang na paghiwalayin sila, protect those who are hurt and suffering. At ang wrath ng God ay dun sa nananakit. At kung may children, consequence din ng sin ng parent/s yung suffering ng children nila pero God offers comfort and a promise na basta bumalik sa kanya, generational curses can be broken.
Doesnt matter kung annulment, divorce, legal separation. The moment the family is broken, the Lord is hurt. Kaya ang hypocrite nung mga anti divorce suggesting may annulment naman, etc. Kairita. Bobo.
Mahirap talaga kapag sinabayan ng poor reading comprehension yung Bible interpretation.
Kaya mahirap maging religious kung kasabay mo sa religion mga b*b*.
The clear implication is an unjustified divorce for selfish reasons that harms the other spouse. The tougher language is in the New Testament.
>Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. ^(9) I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Matthew 19:8
But even that clearly leaves the exception of marital infidelity as a just cause for divorce. I'm not sure why the church went to the extreme of no divorce for any reason.
I think just reasons are adultery, physical abuse, and various forms of abandonment.
Matthew 19:9 ESV
9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.
From my understanding, it is allowed according to Christ if sexual immorality is involved.
I was looking into this verse the other day.
The Greek words used by Matthew in this verse (…except for “porneia”, and marries another, commits “moichao”…) are telling.
"Porneia" in the context of Matthew's Gospel is interpreted by the Catholic Church as referring to invalid or unlawful marriages, rather than a broad allowance for divorce due to any sexual sin. "Moichao," on the other hand, emphasizes the sin of adultery resulting from remarriage after a divorce that was not based on an invalid union.
So parang ang dating ay void ab initio (invalid to begin with) kasi yung mga porneia/forbidden marriages, kaya hindi na moichao kahit mag-separate/annul tapos remarry yung involved parties.
In the original Greek, the word used is porneia.
Porneia describes various sexual behaviors that include prostitution, extramarital sexual intercourse or adultery, paedophilia, promiscuity, homosexuality, lesbianism, incest, premarital sex and bestiality.
In some translations, unfaithfulness is used instead of sexual immorality, which misses the point of porneia.
Christ allows this one exception; and a divorce for any other reason, leading to remarriage or sexual intercourse with another, is still adultery. This is because the marital bond is never dissolved for any reason, unless it’s sexual immorality.
Mahirap din na basehan ang Bible kasi nagbabago sya. Yung mga unlawful nung panahon ni Moses, may iba don parang naiba na ng New Testament. So siguro if si Jesus nagtuloy tuloy sa panahon ngayon, baka nilagay din jan yung domestic violence as God doesn't want violence against women.
Any religious argument in favor or against divorce is irrelevant unless you want to disregard the separation of Church and State (Secularism).
We should be firmer in establishing that barrier, or even going full *Laïcité* rather than keep using religious passages in our laws and politics in general.
The scientific evidence should be enough. If people are rejecting scientific evidence because of religion or ideology, they are not really thinking.
I think the best argument is the evidence from the scientific studies and nation-wide statistics in the USA.
The USA has open divorce law for any reason.
The research shows that the majority of divorces are not preceded by abuse or conflict. ([Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/))
That lack of conflict and abuse in the majority of cases is important to remember when you consider the rest of the data.
Research demonstrates:
>divorce has been shown to diminish a child's future competence in all areas of life, including family relationships, education, emotional well-being, and future earning power.
>Two large meta-analyses, one reported in 1991 and the other reported ten years later in 2001, showed that “children with divorced parents continued to score significantly lower on measures of academic achievement, conduct, psychological adjustment, self-concept, and social relations”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/
Sexual abuse is much more likely in single parent (4.8 times), remarried parents (10 times), and single parent with a cohabiting partner (19.8 times) households than in married biological parent homes
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/opre/project/national-incidence-study-child-abuse-and-neglect-nis-4-2004-2009
According to the Census Bureau and FBI, children from single-parent homes are:
- 72% of all teenage murderers.
- 60% of rapists.
- 70% of kids incarcerated.
- 2 times as likely to quit school.
- 11 times more likely to be violent.
- 3/4 teen suicides.
- 80% of the adolescents in psychiatric hospitals.
- 90% of runaways
Again, it is important to remember that this can't be explained by exposure to abuse or damaging home environments because in the US the majority of divorces are for other less serious reasons.
These are the consequences of divorce and remarriage, even when there has been no abuse.
To me, this is the most serious argument.
For me, it makes sense to look at the statistical data and the scientific research to see the advantages and disadvantages.
u/baletetreegirl
Context: Malachi is criticizing men who are **treating their wives poorly** and then divorcing them. The emphasis might be on the *mistreatment*, not the divorce itself.
Original Language: The Hebrew word for "hate" can also mean "despise" or be used for something God finds displeasing but allows.
If you're looking for Biblical support for pro-divorce stances, some Christians reference other passages. It's important to note these are debated interpretations:
Matthew 19:3-9: Here, Jesus is questioned about divorce. While he affirms marriage as God's design, he mentions an exception for "sexual immorality" (interpreted by some as grounds for divorce).
Yes, if you read the whole Bible talaga you will realise that the divorce itself is not the problem - it’s the people who are not doing right by the marriage that’s why it was eventually allowed. Although hindi sya original intent ni God. His purpose of inventing marriage was that it is designed to be for lifetime. But yeah, since humanity screwed up it was allowed for certain circumstances like you mentioned above.
My favorite bible verse is the home brew abortion recipe and the one that talks the woman who so so down bad for her lovers who's cock is huge and cums a hard like a horse
Edit: for those curious
[Ez 23 20 talks about this hoe who so down bad for his monster cock and nut](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023%3A20&version=NIV), some version will describe his dick differently depending on bible version or translations but it's still funny (some versions call his cum "emissions" while some or more straight forward calling it 'semen' or 'seed')
[Link to thread talking about the abortion potion lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolves/s/XAIWba60UV) and other nice things the bible says about how they view women's rights and allowing divorce no way!
[Actual bible verse to abortion potion and women👌](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5:11-31&version=NIV)
No I'm not religious, quite the opposite actually lol, I just happen to know these things bc it's funny and will turn your tita's religious brainrot upside down lmao
There's a bible verse for everything apparently so the next time your Tita is talking shit, just say she's not allowed to talk bc she's a woman and you're allowed to have multiple wives (yes there's a bible verse for that)
>home brew abortion recipe
The intent behind that wasn't to actually induce an abortion but to appease a jealous husband who thinks his wife cheated on her. Hell its even on the link that you showed.
>Actual bible verse to abortion potion and women👌
We see in the scenario that this is a method for settling the marital dispute. The husband suspects his wife, and instead of him or others harming her in his wrath they bring it before the priest. This trial serves as a means of protecting women against jealous husbands through divine punishment. It also vindicates the husband for making accusations if he’s proven right.
Curses are spoken upon the bitter water before God. The woman then swears upon the curses to receive them if she indeed has committed adultery and the curse on her serves as an example to all the people, but if she hasn’t, then no harm comes to her and she takes on no curse. The bitter water itself isn’t actually harmful to health. The effects occur in the face of a guilty conscience.
>No I'm not religious, quite the opposite actually lol
Which clearly shows how you have an incredibly biased reading on those verses.
>just say she's not allowed to talk bc she's a woman and you're allowed to have multiple wives
You do realize the Catholic Church forbids polygamy right? Just because there were instances of God's chosen(prophets and kings) in the old testament doing it doesn't mean God approved of it. He simply tolerated their actions and shortcomings.
Well said. If you read it the verses themselves state how irrationally jealous the husband is and how ‘there is no evidence: no witnesses, was not caught in the act’ and yet the husband is jealous.
Dude, that text from Ezekiel ain't an actual woman but an allegory of Israel and Judah, whose idolatry is so depraved it's exactly that disgusting.
I'll get back on you on that passage from Numbers. Judaism actually allows abortion, but IIRC that is for "mamzermim", illegimate children (which has a different definition in Judaism than what we have now.)
the first time i read Ez 23:20, i thought to myself "yeah maybe this is just an analogy for the fall of the israelites to the devil's temptations or whatever" and then i read the text and... nope. this is literally just cock worship.
Of course they’ll use the Bible. It’s like expecting a muslim not to use the quran.
Besides, divorce has been consistently opposed by the Church throughout the millenia, so its not as subjective as you might think.
Which is probably why some religious groups usually say that **"well, these laws are no longer applicable to us right now because the situation is different."**
other religious groups say that **"laws are applicable no matter when or where."**
Ngl, a lot of religious laws made sense for their time. Yun nga lang I suspect na nakalimutan ang reason kung bakit inestablish sila and just continued on through sheer force of tradition without considering current circumstances
In practice hindi yan nangyayari. Hindi naman lahat na first wife matapang na kontrahin asawa niya. Meron ngang common practice doon sa BARMM na yung polygamous na lalaki pinapa abroad yung mga asawa nya habang dito lang siya sa Pinas. Pinapa dalhan nalang siya ng monthly remittances ng mga OFW na wives. Bale masarap buhay niya dito habang kayod yung mga asawa nya abroad. Baliktad sa iba imbes na lalaki mag trabaho at babae usually ang stay at home, yung lalaki na yung stay at home tuloy.
lmao time to clap back with bible verses too. let's start with food to avoid mentioned in the bible. may faint memory ako na may mga bawal na food mentioned in the bible that i'm pretty sure these catholics who throw bible verses enjoy. had to double check and was right. pork and shellfish anyone? hahahaha
Pork and shellfish hindi na bawal. Yung tinutukoy mo na verse ay about sa clean and unclean animals. Hindi na yan applicable sa New Testament, Christian era. Pero yung pagkain ng dugo ng hayop ay bawal. Pati rin yung strangled animal, yung di napalabas ang dugo. Food offered to idols bawal rin.
Ang dami sa Europe na catholic countries at legal ang divorce. Germany, France, Belgium, Spain, etc. Walang kinalaman ang divorce sa religion. Kung legal ang divorce, allowed ka ng batas kahit katoliko ka pa.
I couldn't agree more with this. Clearly the Divorce Bill is being pushed as a Legal Remedy for those who badly needs it [like battered wives], pero sadly, some people took it as an attack against religion instead. Smh
Well it is also an attack/threat to the prescribed/enforced lifestyle for married religious Catholics (note: religious is not necessarily the same as faithful). Whether we agree to it or not, the Catholic religion currently does not allow for divorce. Couples who freely chose to subject their marriage to this lifestyle (absolutely no divorce) of Catholicism by having a Catholic marriage must have known this before they willingly did so. Freedom of choice does not mean that they are free of the consequences of that choice.
I am not saying na dapat no way out na ang battered/abused spouse. Pwede sila magseparate and if allowed by law eventually, they can also separate all legal matters nila. However, in the eyes of the religious Catholic community, they will always be seen as "married" along with whatever social implications that may have (note: social, not legal)
Understandable ang knee jerk reaction ng practicing religious Catholics because a core aspect of their chosen lifestyle is threatened. BUT OF COURSE it DOES NOT mean that their chosen lifestyle as religious Catholics should be prescribed for everybody else. So I still say yes to divorce and legal separation.
Hopefully the religious Catholics can also find a meaningful solution to address the issue of abusive relationships among married Catholic couples on their end as an institution. Otherwise, I think more people will opt out of the Catholic religion.
>it DOES NOT mean that their chosen lifestyle as religious Catholics should be prescribed for everybody else.
Yes. I only wish other people realize this exact statement also. Ika nga, there is no compulsion in religion. We understand the sentiments of the church, and we respect them for it.
What is not respectable is shaming and judging the people who wants divorce just because they badly need it.
> Ang dami sa Europe na catholic countries at legal ang divorce. Germany, France, Belgium, Spain, etc. Walang kinalaman ang divorce sa religion. Kung legal ang divorce, allowed ka ng batas kahit katoliko ka pa.
All Catholic majority countries have divorce worldwide.
We're the only backward nation of any faith that does not have it for non-muslims.
Those countries have divorce despite being Catholic because they follow secularism and secular values. Philippines, funnily enough, is founded on secular values inspired by the Liberal values of the French and America. Revolutions.
Catholics who don't want Divorce to be allowed don't want secularism. They want religious values to have a say in our laws. That's a blatant rejection of the separation of Church and State.
The only way you can be Catholic yet still in favor of allowing divorce is for you to accept and respect secularism. Clearly, most Filipinos do not.
That is exactly why people are worried.
Have you seen the statistics in those countries?
Divorce happens for no reason now. Just because they want to. No abuse. Nothing.
Children of divorced parents have terrible outcomes compared to their peers. Lower education scores, lower relationship health, lower mental health, higher rates of crime, higher rates of suicide, higher rates of homelessness...
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Nangyari naman yan noon sa RH bill. Sasabihin lang nila yan in general pero as if i kikickout kayo or makakareceuve kayo formal letter isa isa. No one stands at church door steps para tanungin mga stand natin sa bagay bagay.
The Church will always proclaim its beliefs in season and out season. Kung Katoliko, you could at least try to see bakit nila sinasabi yun at anong yung teaching behind.
It's actually interesting to note that in the Old testament, divorce was actually allowed in ancient Israel. "Suppose a man marries a woman but she does not please him**.** Having discovered something wrong with her, he writes a document of divorce, hands it to her, and sends her away from his house. 2When she leaves his house, she is free to marry another man." - Deuteronomy 24:1
'
There are three laws: Civil law, Moral law, Ceremonial law.
Ceremonial Law - Christians are not bound by ceremonial law since the church is not the nation of Israel.
Moral Law - The ordinances are holy, just, and unchanging.
Civil Law - These laws were specifically given for the culture and place of the Israelites and encompass all of the moral law except the Ten Commandments.
So there are laws that stay in the past and laws that continue till this very day like moral laws.
The divorce you are pertaining to is under Civil law and is superseded in the NT after the death of Jesus on cross, rendering those practices of the past.
Jesus' death on the cross is seen as atoning for humanity's sins and ushering in a new covenant between God and humanity
Then why did Jesus implied that divorce is permissible in Matthew 19: 8, when he says,"anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."? But religious nutjobs are all for absolute no-divorce when in the Bible both in Old and New testament, divorce is allowed in many cases.
Divorce is as much allowed as knitting two fabrics together is disallowed, if you read the entire context of the verse you can see that although it was permitted, it in no uncertain terms sees divorce as something immoral.
6. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
The people who use religion as a stance of anti-divorce are mostly the same people who don't actively practice or abide their faith.
Naging faithful and very religious na agad ang mindset nila ng nagkaroon ng divorce issue. Bunch of hypocrites. Nakalimutan na nila agad na sila mismo di na nasunod sa Ten Commandments.
Lalo na ang Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery and Thou Shall not Covet. Naging maalam na agad sa laws of God even if they don't follow it. May pa Bible verses pa. Basahin nyo lahat wag maging selective. God hates Divorce, well God hates more sins that a failed marriage creates, more than He hates divorce.
Kung sana sa mga may stance na anti-divorce e napakafaithful nyo sa kinaaniban nyo at everyday you follow all the teachings religiously, maiintindihan ko pa e. Puro self-righteous kasi at ginagamit pa sarili nilang happiness. I mean WTF. You're happy so dapat everybody happy.
If the church is so strict and the people who follow it are so faithful, why does marriage fall apart? And what does the church do about it to fix it? How does it help? There are many people who are blinded enough by the virtues established by religion to cover up battery, cheating, adultery, and abuse. Hanggang kelan sila magtitiis under the preservation of the sanctity of marriage.
Do those faithful know what happens when a marriage falls apart and it cannot be saved anymore?
Wake up, religion won't save you. Faith in God and that there's a goodness in humanity will. Divorce is just a means to achieve that. Also people forget that God forgives those who deserve it. Divorce doesn't destroy one's faith in God, in fact for some once granted, it even establishes that He exists and finally they found the hope that their life will get better after all.
True, me too. I don't see why people nor the Senate pushed it during the 2000s when Italy, the home of Vatican city have divorce even our previous colonizers Spain who introduced Christianity to us have divorce law
People who use religious doctrine to prevent others from getting out of an abusive relationship are also complicit in the abuse. They are handing the gun to the killer.
Jewish people have an interesting principle called "Pikuach nefesh" which basically means Jewish doctrine takes a backseat if a life is at stake, that it is ok to break religious rules if you need to save a life.
I saw an episode of Law and Order where Stabler was very aggressive in pursuing a suspect (a rabbi, suspected p*do). The cop apologized when he found out the rabbi was innocent. Said rabbi forgave him, citing that same principle because the cop was trying to save the life of a child.
If I am breaking religious rules by supporting divorce, then so be it. I'd rather not have some person or child die because they are in an abusive environment.
That's an interesting historical factoid! Another recent example was during the covid pandemic. When uber-religious nuts in the states were using doctrine as an excuse not to get vaxxed, Jewish leaders used this as a counter argument.
>**Kailangan na ba ko maexcommunicate**
By simply googling (I encourage you to do it), the answer is NO. The **actual** divorced people are even encourage to join Church activities. What more the people who aren't even divorce but have pro-stance.
Still, the Catholic Church teaching and stance on divorce doesn't and will not change.
Divorced people are welcome to the church. Note that if one wish to re-marry at the Church, annulment is a requirement.
>**Akala ko kasi ang religion eh personal relationship kay God. Hindi opinion on divorce...**
Yes. It's about personal relationship with God. But also remember that the The Catholic Church have set of teachings that they firmly believe and follow, and called for it's followers to the same. They have a set of teachings about divorce, it's not just an opinion for them. You can't nitpick those teachings.
And religious groups, as private entities, can voice and promote their opinions in said democracy too.
And for their internal processes and stuff, private groups in general are not compelled to agree or recognize everything the govt wants under the **freedom of association.**
So divorced couples don't have the right to 2nd marriages in places of worship if the religious group does not allow that.
don't be fooled.
Hindi lahat ng Catholic against sa divorce. Besides,
Matthew 5:31-32
"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
this clearly states that except for when infidelity happens, divorce is not allowed.
and then we have
Psalms 11:5
"The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, He hates with a passion."
this one indicates that God Himself hates violence.
the main point of divorce is because of infidelity and violence against the spouse. Hindi ko alam kung ano bang lugar nagsabi n'yan, pero yung Catholic church namin sa bayan namin pabor sila sa divorce dahil they believe that God doesn't tolerate violence and infidelity, which can be pictured naman sa 10 Commandments.
TBH, hindi ako masyadong religious but thanks to the Catholic school kung saan ako nag-aral, may mga nabitbit akong aral from the Bible and not just out of context ones, na-explain talaga nila ang meaning behind.
Religion being a “personal relationship with God” is mostly a Protestant understanding. If you’re Catholic you also have to accept Church teachings and doctrines in addition to your personal relationship with God.
So unless you want to convert to Protestantism, then you’re going to experience a lot of cognitive dissonance if you’re pro-divorce and Catholic at the same time.
You can still be pro-divorce and NOT get a divorce for yourself.
You can acknowledge that some people need it, but don’t do it yourself.
Is that NOT Catholic?
Why in Spain legal ang divorce since around 1980s pa?
Why is divorce legal in ALL other Catholic-majority countries?
Have you thought about that?
>Why in Spain legal ang divorce since around 1980s pa?
You know what else happend in the 80s? Franco recently died in 1975, Spain then transitioned into a liberal democracy like it was before Franco.
>Why is divorce legal in ALL other Catholic-majority countries?
Because Catholicism is losing its grip on most countries. I'm not saying they aren't religious. What I'm saying is they are steadily going irreligious.
>Have you thought about that?
But have you thought about why these countries allowed divorce? It's not because of Catholicism, that's for sure.
Religion should be kept out of any halls of power, especially of legislation.
I agree with separation of the Church and State.
But what I was discussing here with the original commenter was his stance on how you can’t be Catholic and be Pro-Divorce.
I noticed na most against Divorce eh yung mga successful in their family responsibilities. They have not experienced violence in their households. Also, they uphold Malachi 2:16. But the thing is, kung sino pa yung nag divorce na na-agrabyado eh sila pa rin yung masama. There is no divorce if there's no problem with a family.
Catholic buong angkan namin pero pro divorce kami. Take note, sagradong catholic kami na may mga alagang pari and yung mga elders namin everyday nagsisimba, yung mga ganung catholic talaga. Pero since sa loob ng angkan namin may mga failed marriages, nakita namin kung ano effect ng walang divorce, kaya pro divorce kami.
Parehas tayo, I am a Catholic too and I am Pro-Divorce. Hindi para sa akin e, pero para sa mga taong nangangailangan nito. Hindi ko ipagkakait yung chance and mercy to start over fresh sa mga taong need ito kasi ako mismo nakaranas ng mercy and multiple chances bigay ng Panginoon. Huwag natin ipagkait ang accessibility na ito esp to those who need it most. Hindi naman pagka nagkaroon ng conflict e automatic divorce, dyan naman papasok ang marriage counselling. Ito ay isa lamang option so that both persons esp the oppressed can move on sa buhay niya away from his oppressor. Mas nagiging makasalanan ang pagsasama ng mag-asawa kung ito ay puno ng poot at pasakit.
theyre just trying to sway your support. Parang its saying You cant be catholic and you cant make a sin because God hates sins. Parang ano yun, si God pwede forgiving ang catholic church hindi? Thats wild.
Hahaha. How about mga tao sa Italy kung saan may divorce at andun ang Roma? Sa ibang parte ng mundo na may mga Catholic? Tatablahin niyo din ba? Sagad sa katangahan
Catholic ako pero pro divorce. Kasi why deprive people of their freedom to choose? Hindi naman porket masaya ako sa pamilya ko at hindi ako makikipagdivorce eh pipigilan na kitang makipag divorce sa asawa mong abusive. Doesn't make any fvcking sense.
What Malachi wrote in 500BC, in its original form and context, was “ONLY” translated into “God Hates Divorce” in 500AD when the King James Bible was written. I believe six versions before, this was interpreted as “anti-treachery.”
The interpretation “God Hates Divorce” remained on all versions until 1996, when the “Dead Sea Scrolls” containing the oldest known fragments of Malachi 2:16, was discovered. This gave scholars a chance to review and once again interpret from its closest original text.
New versions since then carried an updated interpretation of “God Hates Divorce”.
The Christian Standard Bible of 2003 states: “If he hates and divorce [his wife], says the Lord Hod of Israel”
New International Version 2011 (updated): “The man who hates and divorces his wife” says the Lord, the God of Israel”
English Standard Version, 2011: “For the man who does not love his wife, but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel”
I did NOT post this to advocate a stand, rather to provide updated context on the use.
This is why ang hirap mag depend sa translated texts specially yung ESV bible kasi grabe yung discrepancy ng meaning and it's leaning towards the west's conservatives views.
I hate when they pick a line from the Bible and don’t understand the context of it.
‘Go forth and multiply’ - this was said when the world wasnt as crowded as it is now.
Sarap ireiterate na pag pinasa po na pwede ang divorce hindi po maghihiwalay lahat ng kasal. Yung nangangailangan lang at yung afford ito
You can be both Catholic and pro-divorce if your definition of marriage under law is different from your definition of a marriage bound by the holy sacrament of matrimony.
A civil partnership under law should not the same as marriage bound by the holy sacrament of matrimony. This way, divorce can actually add more value to the holy sacrament of matrimony because it entails that you can only get it once.
At the end of the day, both sides are just arguing semantics.
The bible is the word of God.
Eto na lang.
Bible with no Holy Spirit - You dry up
Holy Spirit without the bible - You blow up
Bible with the Holy Spirit - You grow up
I'm neither RC nor Protestant. Di rin ako nafofollow sa traditions of men.
As it should be. Our relationship with God should be completely personal. Yung mga large communities of worship (ex. attending mass, joining parish clubs) are supposed to serve as a guide [emphasis on this kasi people tend to misinterpret guides as 'rigid rules'] to help you build your personal relationship with God and it can also be something you can go to when you want to build a sense of community.
Same here OP >< parang feeling ko maiimpyerno ako dahil pro divorce ako pero strong ang Catholic faith ko. The Church says no, I also have argued with my aunts who are currently nuns about this but they will never understand yet with the abuse in the family and ilang pieces pa ba ng tao para magtiis sa ganyang relasyon, I would want a divorce. Tawag ko na din sa sarili ko hypocrite pero ang hirap talaga hahaha
sa ngayon, hirap na hirap ang kalooban ko. kailangan ko ng divorce dahil nadead end ako sa annulment. hindi rin pumayag ang abogado na magfile ako ng kaso na concubenage. hindi ko naman ginusto sitwasyon ko. pinaglaban ko naman yung kasal ko, pero wala eh...
The good Lord affords us the chance at forgiveness even after committing the most grievous of sins. And yet these people use his words to spout hate and contempt.
Non religious person here but I always believe that you can practice your faith without your church. Pag pinaalis or tinaboy ka, you're still free and able to do things according to your religion/faith.
It's not Catholic Church policy to shun/excommunicate members with differing opinions. If they did, the Philippines would no longer be majority Catholic during the murderous presidency of duterte.
One of the many reasons why I consider myself ex-Catholic (agnostic na ako, previously atheist). This is something you cannot argue. Non-negotiable yan. Being enrolled for 14+ years in Catholic schools, we have bee taught na almost dogma na ang stance ng Vatican diyan, along with abortion and same-sex marriage. And I do not see a future na they will amend their stance with these. I believe the Catholic Church would rather fade into obscurity and irrelevance than bend their rules for these.
The Church sees itself as a moral authority. Tama ka never talaga sila magcocompromise. Because if they did, that would undermine their moral and spiritual leadership.
Pero they (Pope Francis) have made remarks in a more inclusive rhetoric than most of these Filipino catholics. Kaya I think there is a chance na etong iba ay kaya ring i-approach etong mga contemporary issues ng mundo ng mga pusong nag-iisip.
But then again, he's a pope. and there aren't many popes.
bakit ba ayaw ng mga religious people ng divorce? sa totoo lang nakakainis na yung mga religious at pulitiko na against sa divorce, mga hypocrites! kung masaya kayo sa marriage nyo stay in your marriage! pero ‘wag nyo pagdamutan yung mga tao na nasa miserableng pagsasama. they deserve to be freed!
In my experience as an active Catholic, we don't cherry pick. Kaso ngayong nabuhay ulit usapin ng divorce, nagsilabasan mga cherry pickers na kakilala ko na tinagurian pa naman na apologetics. some of their arguments are downright stupid (i know the one who came up with the "abusive spouse will just jump from one partner to another" bullshit) because they can't reconcile anti divorce with real stories
As a Catholic, we don't claim him. I know the group that made that post and they have unironically been reduced to cherry picking verses despite being apologetics.
And yet Jesus supported divorce due to infidelity.
(Matthew 19:8-9)
Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery”
Puno't dulo naman invalid ang marriage. Matthew 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
I'm a Catholic til death BUT I'M PRO DIVORCE.
Madami ng ama, ina at anak ang nakulong sa pamilya na maari naman sana nilang takasan kung may pagkakataon lang. Ito na ang susi para maiwasan na ang domestic violence at matakasan ang mapang abusong kinakasama.
PERO SANA MAY LIMITASYON DIN ITO PARA SA TAONG MAPANG ABUSO NA HINDI NA PWEDE PANG IKASAL SA IBA AT BAKA GAWIN NIYA LANG DIN ULIT. KUNG SAKALI KASING MAGKAROON ULIT SYA NG PAMILYA MAARING BAGONG BIKTIMA NA NAMAN NYA ITO SA KARAHASAN.
it's a covenant with god daw!!! it's a sacrament!
Tapos yung pari pwede umalis ng simbahan.... like wtf hahah dapat yung mga pari may legal basis didn na di sila pwede umalis ng simbahan kung ganun haha.
Well, Roman Catholicism is not the same are your usual offshoot RC cult varieties that spouted the "personal relationship with god" BS. The church is literally the flock. You dont have a personal god or a personal relationship with god, you share that with the church. Thats what self important and self righteous christian derivative cults like to preach.
And you cant be pro divorce if you believe in the sanctity of marriage. Marriage is one of the sacred sacraments. There's no pick and choose in the RC faith.
Either youre an agnostic, like me, or an atheist. You can't call yourself catholic if you go against any of the sacred sacraments.
Why do self professed catholics lack understanding in their own faith, the one they subscribed to?!?
Mark Chapter 10: Jesus (God) is very clear
The Pharisees approached and asked, “Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?” They were testing him.
He said to them in reply, “What did Moses command you?”
They replied, “Moses permitted him to write a bill of divorce and dismiss her.”b
But Jesus told them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts he wrote you this commandment.
But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother [and be joined to his wife],
and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.
Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”
Cherry picking na naman. Halatado talagang nagpa-parrot lang ng sinasabi ng iba without taking a pause to check if totoo ba o hindi.
If you read the entirety of Malachi chapter 2, it's about God talking about being unfaithful of the spouse. If you read the full verse, the last two sentences, say "therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously".
One can argue that while God does hate divorce, sa context ng Malachi chapter 2, masasabing, huwag kayong maging unfaithful sa inyong mga asawa. Dahil ang resulta niyan, divorce, and he doesn't like divorce. The root cause there is not divorce but cruelty and infidelity. Divorce is merely the result of the problem.
Nowhere in the bible says divorce is forbidden. He just doesn't like it.
Tangna, atheist akong naturingan pero mas kabisado ko pa ang bibliya kesa sa mga relihiyosong tukmol na'to.
>Kailangan na ba akong maexcommunicate?
No. Excommunications of this type are automatic. Those who knowingly reject and oppose Jesus Christ's direct teaching:
>So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matthew 19:6)
Break communion with Christ by their willful choice to promote sin and reject His teachings.
However, not everyone who supports the Divorce Law is knowingly and willfully rejecting Christ. Many are following their own conscience and believe that what they are doing is right.
As the Catechism says,
>"it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed." (1790)
Such a person is not excommunicated. Their heresy is only material and not formal. If they truly understood and believed that by holding this view they were rejecting Christ, they would certainly choose Christ over their erroneous understanding.
>Ito na ba ang basehan ng pananampalataya ngayon?
The basis of the Faith is Jesus Christ - conformity to his will and trust in his teachings.
But, today we don't have faith. We always want to follow our own ideas.
St. John Paul II wrote *Faith and Reason* and *Splendour of Truth* for people of this age, so that we would not forget what it means to have faith and follow Jesus.
For me, I didn't have faith, I thought I knew better than Jesus. It was only after someone showed me the very bad situation in the USA that I finally accepted that I was wrong. I didn't trust Jesus. I didn't have faith.
I trusted the science and the statistics. This is what the research from the US shows:
>divorce has been shown to diminish a child's future competence in all areas of life, including family relationships, education, emotional well-being, and future earning power.
>Two large meta-analyses, one reported in 1991 and the other reported ten years later in 2001, showed that “children with divorced parents continued to score significantly lower on measures of academic achievement, conduct, psychological adjustment, self-concept, and social relations”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/
If their parents find new partners, children are 40 times more likely than those who live with biological parents to be abused
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0162309585900123
Sexual abuse is much more likely in single parent (4.8 times), other (non-biological) married parents (10 times) and single parent with a cohabiting partner (19.8 times) households than in married biological parent homes
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/opre/project/national-incidence-study-child-abuse-and-neglect-nis-4-2004-2009
Children of parents that remarry have a 4,000% increased risk of abuse and a 1,980% increased risk of sexual abuse specifically.
My conscience told me re-marriage after an abusive relationship would he good for the mom and kids. That made sense to me.
I said, "Jesus was wrong about this."
And then, I saw the research. And, I know that 4,000% is VERY high, it is an enormous increase in risk. If someone told me I had a 4,000% chance of winning the lottery I would spend all my money on buying tickets, because it's a guarantee!
So, I believed the science.
I am ashamed to say, I didn't trust Jesus, I didn't trust the Church. I only trusted myself and the science.
>Official statement ba ito ng CBCP?
The official statement is here:
https://cbcponline.net/statement-on-the-divorce-bill/
>Akala ko kase ang religion eh personal relationship with God. Hindi opinion sa divorce...
The Church doesn't have opinions. She has many teachings from Jesus. Jesus taught about Divorce specifically in the Gospel.
A personal relationship is very important. But, imagine having a personal relationship with God, and you tell him that you read his teaching in the Bible and decided your ideas were better. Do you think that is a very good relationship?
You can't pick and choose parts of your religion and call it "faith". You either believe that marriage is a life long commitment and that divorce is a sin, otherwise you're going against God. Or you don't believe in the bible and you're not a catholic.
Although a lot of people in the Philippines are religious nutjobs, at least they're following the catholic religion, as insane as it is
You absolutely can pick and choose parts of your religion and call it faith. It's called choosing which church and doctrine to follow. Now within the church and doctrine, maybe not. But there's really nothing saying you can't choose a different religion/variant. And both variants would say that they're the "real religion", whatever that means.
Sure but then you're no longer part of that religion. You're not a catholic if you don't follow the catholic religion. You can't pick and choose the bits you like and ignore the bits you don't like and still call yourself a catholic
OP, If you will just step back and rethink about it, it's like being in school. When you enrol in a school, you are technically under their rules and you need to abide by their rules because you are a member, not the owner.. If the school is conservative and says that you cannot cross dress there and you don't want to follow that, then feel free to disassociate yourself from that institution BUT what you shouldn't do is to cherry pick what you want and just follow what suits you. That's only fair.
Similarly, once you're already working in a company, the moment you get hired, you are bound to follow all the company rules in order to call yourself a member of that company. If HR says to dress appropriately and you chose to wear pambahay, they have all the right to disassociate themselves from you cause you don't represent them.
Diba fair lang naman ang statement nila OP? Kung ayaw mo sa rules nila, layasan mo. Hindi kasama sa equation yung ipagsiksikan mo sarili mo sa lugar na ayaw mo naman ang batas, hindi ba? And if you think you can burn that institution down, mind you, a lot of empires tried that one and it even involved killing lots of them before but they're still here. How much more yung ngangawa ka lang OP? You think bad mouthing them would destroy them?
May option din like me na lumayas ako tapos umanib nalang ako sa grupong swak sa gusto kong paniniwala. Ganun nalang din gawin mo OP. Kahit naman magpuputak yang mga yan, at the end of the day hindi naman sila ang boboto.
>Matthew 19:7-9
>They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, **except for sexual immorality**, and marries another, commits adultery.”
So it turns out, even for Jesus, there are some valid grounds for divorce. When asked by pharisees "why did Moses allow divorce?" sagot ni Jesus "because of your 'hardness of heart'". Even if, granted, God did not design man and woman to divorce, it seems na on some level, it's ok. Fwiw, Jesus would probably be supportive of at-fault divorce (and probably not supportive of no-fault divorce). And hey, even if we get at-fault divorce, that's a huge step forward narin.
Being Catholic is the problem ... you're following a cult forced onto this country by the Spanish. You had no choice. You're probably just following your parents in their beliefs. You hear a lie frequently enough, it starts to become truth. Divorce is a huge money maker for the cult.
Mas matimbang ba talaga para sa iba ang kanilang religion compared sa kalayaan at karapatang binibigay ng divorce para umalis sa mapang-abuso at unfulfilling na marriage?
Ewan ko din ba. For sure naman nakikita nila yung dilemma. So okay lang na inaabuso ka ng asawa mo? Basta mapanatili mo ang pagiging katoliko mo?
At wala kayong pakealam sa mga taong nagdudusa ngayon at kailangan ang divorce? Ang mahalaga katoliko kayo?
Ewan ko lang kung ano pang essence ng relihiyosong kabutihan eh parang hindi naman kayo nakakaramdam para sa ibang tao.
So i-aasa nalang lahat ng bagay sa religion? Di na talaga gagamitin ang mga 5 senses para mag-observe at mag-conclude? Kala ko ba god gave us freedom? Napaka-inconsistent ng ibang religious people.
yung di align sa gusto mo kaya ni-redact mo yung bible
yung buong verse is: "For the man who hates and divorces his wife, says the Lord, the God of Israel, does violence to the one he should protect, says the Lord Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful" which is pretty neutral to me
If we ever debate on Divorce, the best thing we can cite is the Constitution and the Family Code since these will be the basis for the legality of divorce. Not the Bible because the State does not support a religion
And the scientific evidence.
I think the best argument is the evidence from the scientific studies and nation-wide statistics in the USA.
The USA has open divorce law for any reason.
The research shows that the majority of divorces are not preceded by abuse or conflict. ([Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/))
That lack of conflict and abuse in the majority of cases is important to remember when you consider the rest of the data.
Research demonstrates:
>divorce has been shown to diminish a child's future competence in all areas of life, including family relationships, education, emotional well-being, and future earning power.
>Two large meta-analyses, one reported in 1991 and the other reported ten years later in 2001, showed that “children with divorced parents continued to score significantly lower on measures of academic achievement, conduct, psychological adjustment, self-concept, and social relations”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/
Sexual abuse is much more likely in single parent (4.8 times), remarried parents (10 times), and single parent with a cohabiting partner (19.8 times) households than in married biological parent homes
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/opre/project/national-incidence-study-child-abuse-and-neglect-nis-4-2004-2009
According to the Census Bureau and FBI, children from single-parent homes are:
- 72% of all teenage murderers.
- 60% of rapists.
- 70% of kids incarcerated.
- 2 times as likely to quit school.
- 11 times more likely to be violent.
- 3/4 teen suicides.
- 80% of the adolescents in psychiatric hospitals.
- 90% of runaways
Again, it is important to remember that this can't be explained by exposure to abuse or damaging home environments because in the US the majority of divorces are for other less serious reasons.
These are the consequences of divorce and remarriage, even when there has been no abuse.
To me this is the most serious argument.
For me it makes sense to look at the statistical data and the scientific research to see the advantages and disadvantages.
Catholic ako pero cringe talaga yung ginagawa ng mga hardcore religious peeps. Shino-shove nila ang faith nila sa lahat na parang sila lang ang religion sa mundo.
Lakas makasabi ng no to divorce pero may mga sugar babies naman habang kasal.
It's funny kase I am in a catholic school and in our subjects of religious education and araling panlipunan, we were taught the seperation of church and state. i find it funny that mere adults do not even practice this "agreement" and instead use Christianity as an influence when it is not even accurate nor appropriate given the situation. Even funnier nga is the fact that people who often use Christianity as a basis for their arguments are not devout christians themselves.
When you read the passage in Matthew 19 about divorce, you'll see that Jesus actually makes an exception.
Take a look at verse 9, which says, "... except for sexual immorality."
It's true that the bill is too loose according to biblical standards. But the point is that it's not about whether or not divorce should be legal, but how hard it should be to obtain a divorce.
Catholics like this need to separate their religious beliefs from state affairs. If they're so against divorce then they shouldn't get one, fine, but they shouldn't involve their religious beliefs in the lives of others.
As a Pastafarian, I don't want to legislate laws that force people to eat past everyday do I?
sa tagalog, MBBTAG
added context verse 15
Malakias 2:15-16
15 Hindi ba't pinag-isa kayo ng Diyos sa katawan at sa espiritu? Ang layunin niya ay upang maging tunay na mga anak ng Diyos ang inyong mga supling. Kaya't huwag ninyong pagtaksilan ang babaing pinakasalan ninyo nang kayo'y kabataan pa.
16 “Nasusuklam ako sa pagpapalayas at paghihiwalay ng mga mag-asawa,” sabi ni Yahweh, ang Diyos ng Israel. “Napopoot ako sa taong gumagawa ng kalupitan sa kanyang asawa. Kaya nga maging tapat kayo sa inyong asawa.”
I’m a follower of God, and I believe what you said, truly, but... can two people walk together unless they agree? Amos 3:3. If they really can’t stay together, people who can’t get along should separate. But a person should not remarry if their spouse is still alive, so this means God really doesn’t want divorce. If they really separate, they shouldn’t remarry as long as the spouse is still alive. Like Jason and Moira, they separated but Jason didn’t remarry anyone else, because that would be a sin, adultery.
The Bible permits divorce under certain conditions, and as a Catholic as you claim you are, you are bound by those conditions. Not just the human laws.
While I am religious , I also believe religion should not dictate laws unless everyone shares the same faith. Divorce should be an option if the majority supports it. Lawmakers must study this issue carefully and not let personal opinions, faith, or personal experiences influence their decisions.
Relihiyon talaga ang hadlang sa collective consensus when it comes to legality of a certain issue. Kaya nagkakagulu-gulo ang mga tao at walang pagkakaisa. Kung naging Budismo o Islam kaya ang relihiyon sa Pinas, hindi siguro ganito kalala ang diskusyon.
As a moderate conservative/classical liberal (and admittedly, an agnostic atheist), religious social conservatives give conservatism a bad name and they give me the creeps. Their zealotry without genuine care for the suffering of others reeks of psychopathy.
At its core, without other distractions like religious zealotry, conservatism simply means conserving time-tested institutions like forms of government, economy, and sociocultural norms. Along with that, for me, conservatism is basically saying "hold up, wait a second" on any progress that has not been scrutinized enough and when people push it without safety parameters provided by either constitution or the general will of the people.
Divorce is a subject that has been OK'd by the people. Look for polls in our country about it and the majority favor it, even those who deem themselves religious.
Why? Because if you really wanna protect marriage and the idea of its sanctity, then the neutral secular machine of the government/state has the responsibility to enact laws that provide leeway for persons who want to re-marry escaping a previously bad marriage, thus giving posterity a better view of marriage: that marriage should never be AND is not a hell-hole.
The state has the ability to craft safety mechanism in it for it not to be abused.
Read Rep. Edcel Lagman's breakdown of the bill. Don't fear it.
Fellow conservatives with thinking brains and functioning hearts should read the fine print of the divorce bill and actually study the difference between annulment and our very own version of divorce.
To answer the question, yes you still can be Catholic and be pro-divorce. Follow what both common sense and conscience tell you.
Outdated na kasi mga lumang religions. Kita mo nga sa Bible, parang mababa pa rin ang tingin sa babae. Pasakop daw sa lalaki pero sigurado may magandang paliwanag ang mga pari dyan,haha
Ang context naman nyan is yung husband (Jews) eh napaka unfaithful. So even before pa, may divorce na din. Actually, may divorce talaga mga ancient jews.
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eto yung footnote na nakita ko about Malachi 2:16 *“I hate divorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “because the man who divorces his wife covers his garment with violence,”* New international version: “The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect,” says the LORD Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful. idk. seems like its pretty neutral to me
Minsan Kasi, (well madalas) may mga tao na kukuha ng tidbits Mula sa bible na papabor sa gusto nila without reading it as a whole. Kung Hindi man ganun, literal Ang basa at walang comprehension. Bible can be good or bad depende sa may hawak nito.
INC ganyan ang atake. Tidbits ng bible na pinagtagpi tagpi.
True to HAHAHHA meron nga eh sinabing di daw totoo yung depression tas kukuha ng words sa biblia
As a trapped INC member, I 100% agree.
Tiwalag na HAHAHAHA
That’s the goal hahahha
Mostly protestant-offshoots ang ganyan not catholics.
Oo halos di nagbabasa bibliya mga Catholics di sila palamemorize unlike Protestants or Christians na napakakabisado ang salita ng bibliya yun lang di nila kabisado ang gawa.
Tas popost pa nila sa social media no? Pero masama ugali irl HAHAHAHAHA 🤡
Ahah Yes. Pero madami din naman talagang Christians na kausap mo pa lang sila alam mo totoo yung lakad nila with Christ. Madaming mabuting Katoliko at Kristiyano at maraming jerks. No. 1 na peke mga politicians na halatang corrupt and unapologetic wala man lang effort to hide garapalan corrupt tapos ginagamit faith or religion.
Madalas pag may bible quote sa profile red flag
Agree. Even Satan quoted the Scripture against Jesus.
Agreed. It’s not even bible related, replace the Bible in your last sentence with something like statistics and you’ll see the exact same thing. A lot of people remove the nuance or don’t try to understand the whole picture before taking a hard stance on anything.
Cherry picking at its finest, very INC tho ginagawa rin ng ibang religion para iprove yung walang kwentang point nila
Filipinos taking in information in a nutshell. Generally speaking.
Hindi buo yung nilagay nila.
doesn't support the narrative kase
Kala din nila Malachi utak nila pero di naman binasa ng maayos bible
Shocker.
Hindi nmn yan ung nasa bible.
Ganyan Naman usually Yung kumukuha Ng bible verses, Kaya Wala ako tiwala SA MGA taong nagququote Ng bible verses. Hindi ko nilalahat pero majority ganyan 😂.
The verse is God's warning to unfaithful husbands and protection of their spouses, nowhere near justifying anti-divorce movements. They are delusional.
This takes divorce as a fact of life and not denouncing it. Like divorce is a choice you can make regardless of whether it's bad or not. Exactly how it should be.
Malachi 2:15-16 NIV [15] Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth. [16] “The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect,” says the Lord Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful. https://bible.com/bible/111/mal.2.15-16.NIV Nice try. But out of context. Try harder!
As stated in the text Divorce is allowed according to the bible Edit: also the text implies that divorce can be used as a form of abuse and should therefore have safeguards against this
**Grounds for Divorce**: In Matthew 19:9 (NIV), Jesus says, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." - Jesus acknowledges sexual immorality as a legitimate ground for divorce, indicating that unfaithfulness can break the marital covenant.
Sexual immorality here in the Greek (πορνεια) is more accurately expressed as fornication, agreed upon by most Greek scholars. This is just to clarify that you can’t just say, “they were sexually immoral, so I can divorce.” This makes it objective.
cherry picking at its finest
Typical catholic
Pero kung ipakita mo to sakanila sasabihen iniiba ung daw ung Bible. Unbelievable honestly
Actually, kung babasahin ang buong Malachi 2, ang takeaway ko dyan is galit ang Diyos sa mga lalakeng dinidivorce yung original wives nila to pursue other women of other faiths Problema na nga reading comprehension sa Pinas tas papalalain pa ng mga ugok na yan hays
The catholic version conveniently omits details to fit the narrative of the catholic church. Kaya di nako nagsisimba lol
They always omit things i.e. child abuse by priests, etc. They will only address things when it blows up big time that they cannot cover up things anymore
Yet here they are preaching about sins of omission 😂
Fucking hypocrites lol. Well karamihan naman ng religious people ay hipoktiro eh HAHAHAHAHA
It is very same with "Money is root of all evil" instead of "The love of money".
Hehe i have friends na Christian man o Catholic they dont want to be identified as religious. Enough na sa kanila yung generic term, Christian. Also, may iilan sa kanila hiwalay sa asawa, may alam nga akong bible study group ng puro single moms... previously married, separated... dahil unfaithfulness. Nagkabarka barkada lang sila pero welcome naman yung walang heart problems or happy in a relationship ganern hahaha If babasahin yung Malachi 2:16, the Lord was urging people to guard their hearts and be faithful, and divorce in this case is the act na dahil infidel sa asawa, it's an act of separation from the spouse. Divorce was a consequence that the Lord hates! Ang point, God placed the burden dun sa nagkasala, na wag gawin ang kasalanan. On the matter of divorce, magiging kasalanan siya sa Diyos if it is an active choice of leaving your partner na walang ginawa kundi mahalin at ipaglaban ka just because you're in love with someone else. Take note, the burden is on the one who broke the vows. And nakalimutan ko yung ibang verses that relieves the burden sa "victims" ng unfaithfulness. Technically, applicable din ito sa victims ng domestic violence, etc. Divorce is a consequence of the sin against them, for the offenders sinned against the Lord. Tama lang na paghiwalayin sila, protect those who are hurt and suffering. At ang wrath ng God ay dun sa nananakit. At kung may children, consequence din ng sin ng parent/s yung suffering ng children nila pero God offers comfort and a promise na basta bumalik sa kanya, generational curses can be broken. Doesnt matter kung annulment, divorce, legal separation. The moment the family is broken, the Lord is hurt. Kaya ang hypocrite nung mga anti divorce suggesting may annulment naman, etc. Kairita. Bobo. Mahirap talaga kapag sinabayan ng poor reading comprehension yung Bible interpretation. Kaya mahirap maging religious kung kasabay mo sa religion mga b*b*.
The clear implication is an unjustified divorce for selfish reasons that harms the other spouse. The tougher language is in the New Testament. >Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. ^(9) I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Matthew 19:8 But even that clearly leaves the exception of marital infidelity as a just cause for divorce. I'm not sure why the church went to the extreme of no divorce for any reason. I think just reasons are adultery, physical abuse, and various forms of abandonment.
Matthew 19:9 ESV 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. From my understanding, it is allowed according to Christ if sexual immorality is involved.
THIS!!!!! If they want to seek the nature and heart of God, they should understand that God hates all violence against each other, especially women.
I was looking into this verse the other day. The Greek words used by Matthew in this verse (…except for “porneia”, and marries another, commits “moichao”…) are telling. "Porneia" in the context of Matthew's Gospel is interpreted by the Catholic Church as referring to invalid or unlawful marriages, rather than a broad allowance for divorce due to any sexual sin. "Moichao," on the other hand, emphasizes the sin of adultery resulting from remarriage after a divorce that was not based on an invalid union. So parang ang dating ay void ab initio (invalid to begin with) kasi yung mga porneia/forbidden marriages, kaya hindi na moichao kahit mag-separate/annul tapos remarry yung involved parties.
Does domestic violence count as sexual immorality? 🤔 If so, checkmate broo!!!
In the original Greek, the word used is porneia. Porneia describes various sexual behaviors that include prostitution, extramarital sexual intercourse or adultery, paedophilia, promiscuity, homosexuality, lesbianism, incest, premarital sex and bestiality. In some translations, unfaithfulness is used instead of sexual immorality, which misses the point of porneia. Christ allows this one exception; and a divorce for any other reason, leading to remarriage or sexual intercourse with another, is still adultery. This is because the marital bond is never dissolved for any reason, unless it’s sexual immorality.
Mahirap din na basehan ang Bible kasi nagbabago sya. Yung mga unlawful nung panahon ni Moses, may iba don parang naiba na ng New Testament. So siguro if si Jesus nagtuloy tuloy sa panahon ngayon, baka nilagay din jan yung domestic violence as God doesn't want violence against women.
Any religious argument in favor or against divorce is irrelevant unless you want to disregard the separation of Church and State (Secularism). We should be firmer in establishing that barrier, or even going full *Laïcité* rather than keep using religious passages in our laws and politics in general.
The scientific evidence should be enough. If people are rejecting scientific evidence because of religion or ideology, they are not really thinking. I think the best argument is the evidence from the scientific studies and nation-wide statistics in the USA. The USA has open divorce law for any reason. The research shows that the majority of divorces are not preceded by abuse or conflict. ([Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/)) That lack of conflict and abuse in the majority of cases is important to remember when you consider the rest of the data. Research demonstrates: >divorce has been shown to diminish a child's future competence in all areas of life, including family relationships, education, emotional well-being, and future earning power. >Two large meta-analyses, one reported in 1991 and the other reported ten years later in 2001, showed that “children with divorced parents continued to score significantly lower on measures of academic achievement, conduct, psychological adjustment, self-concept, and social relations” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/ Sexual abuse is much more likely in single parent (4.8 times), remarried parents (10 times), and single parent with a cohabiting partner (19.8 times) households than in married biological parent homes https://www.acf.hhs.gov/opre/project/national-incidence-study-child-abuse-and-neglect-nis-4-2004-2009 According to the Census Bureau and FBI, children from single-parent homes are: - 72% of all teenage murderers. - 60% of rapists. - 70% of kids incarcerated. - 2 times as likely to quit school. - 11 times more likely to be violent. - 3/4 teen suicides. - 80% of the adolescents in psychiatric hospitals. - 90% of runaways Again, it is important to remember that this can't be explained by exposure to abuse or damaging home environments because in the US the majority of divorces are for other less serious reasons. These are the consequences of divorce and remarriage, even when there has been no abuse. To me, this is the most serious argument. For me, it makes sense to look at the statistical data and the scientific research to see the advantages and disadvantages.
Now they are using the Bible. Problema natin sa ganyan selective verses ginagamit to justify some issues.
u/baletetreegirl Context: Malachi is criticizing men who are **treating their wives poorly** and then divorcing them. The emphasis might be on the *mistreatment*, not the divorce itself. Original Language: The Hebrew word for "hate" can also mean "despise" or be used for something God finds displeasing but allows. If you're looking for Biblical support for pro-divorce stances, some Christians reference other passages. It's important to note these are debated interpretations: Matthew 19:3-9: Here, Jesus is questioned about divorce. While he affirms marriage as God's design, he mentions an exception for "sexual immorality" (interpreted by some as grounds for divorce).
Yes, if you read the whole Bible talaga you will realise that the divorce itself is not the problem - it’s the people who are not doing right by the marriage that’s why it was eventually allowed. Although hindi sya original intent ni God. His purpose of inventing marriage was that it is designed to be for lifetime. But yeah, since humanity screwed up it was allowed for certain circumstances like you mentioned above.
people have been fking up since Genesis 3:6
My favorite bible verse is the home brew abortion recipe and the one that talks the woman who so so down bad for her lovers who's cock is huge and cums a hard like a horse Edit: for those curious [Ez 23 20 talks about this hoe who so down bad for his monster cock and nut](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023%3A20&version=NIV), some version will describe his dick differently depending on bible version or translations but it's still funny (some versions call his cum "emissions" while some or more straight forward calling it 'semen' or 'seed') [Link to thread talking about the abortion potion lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolves/s/XAIWba60UV) and other nice things the bible says about how they view women's rights and allowing divorce no way! [Actual bible verse to abortion potion and women👌](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5:11-31&version=NIV) No I'm not religious, quite the opposite actually lol, I just happen to know these things bc it's funny and will turn your tita's religious brainrot upside down lmao There's a bible verse for everything apparently so the next time your Tita is talking shit, just say she's not allowed to talk bc she's a woman and you're allowed to have multiple wives (yes there's a bible verse for that)
Ez 23 20 is now my new favourite bible verse. This is some wattpad smut shit. Hahahaha.
damn it's like one of those degenerate shit that you'll read on manga doujinshi and yeah, it's really funny thanks for sharing this LOL.
>home brew abortion recipe The intent behind that wasn't to actually induce an abortion but to appease a jealous husband who thinks his wife cheated on her. Hell its even on the link that you showed. >Actual bible verse to abortion potion and women👌 We see in the scenario that this is a method for settling the marital dispute. The husband suspects his wife, and instead of him or others harming her in his wrath they bring it before the priest. This trial serves as a means of protecting women against jealous husbands through divine punishment. It also vindicates the husband for making accusations if he’s proven right. Curses are spoken upon the bitter water before God. The woman then swears upon the curses to receive them if she indeed has committed adultery and the curse on her serves as an example to all the people, but if she hasn’t, then no harm comes to her and she takes on no curse. The bitter water itself isn’t actually harmful to health. The effects occur in the face of a guilty conscience. >No I'm not religious, quite the opposite actually lol Which clearly shows how you have an incredibly biased reading on those verses. >just say she's not allowed to talk bc she's a woman and you're allowed to have multiple wives You do realize the Catholic Church forbids polygamy right? Just because there were instances of God's chosen(prophets and kings) in the old testament doing it doesn't mean God approved of it. He simply tolerated their actions and shortcomings.
Well said. If you read it the verses themselves state how irrationally jealous the husband is and how ‘there is no evidence: no witnesses, was not caught in the act’ and yet the husband is jealous.
The way you describe Ez 23 20 also gave me a laugh
Dude, that text from Ezekiel ain't an actual woman but an allegory of Israel and Judah, whose idolatry is so depraved it's exactly that disgusting. I'll get back on you on that passage from Numbers. Judaism actually allows abortion, but IIRC that is for "mamzermim", illegimate children (which has a different definition in Judaism than what we have now.)
the first time i read Ez 23:20, i thought to myself "yeah maybe this is just an analogy for the fall of the israelites to the devil's temptations or whatever" and then i read the text and... nope. this is literally just cock worship.
Of course they’ll use the Bible. It’s like expecting a muslim not to use the quran. Besides, divorce has been consistently opposed by the Church throughout the millenia, so its not as subjective as you might think.
Buti nga mga Muslim e ok lang sa kanila ang divorce
Pati polygamy. Nung nag work ako dati sa BARMM may muslim don na tatlo ang asawa. Halatang ayaw ng unang misis yung dalawa.
Useful ang polygamy nung time na daming lalaki ang namamatay sa gyera pero ngayon halos 1:1 na ang male and female population eh
Which is probably why some religious groups usually say that **"well, these laws are no longer applicable to us right now because the situation is different."** other religious groups say that **"laws are applicable no matter when or where."**
Ngl, a lot of religious laws made sense for their time. Yun nga lang I suspect na nakalimutan ang reason kung bakit inestablish sila and just continued on through sheer force of tradition without considering current circumstances
Akala ko dapat pumayag ang 1st wife if ever gusto kumuha ng 2nd wife yung lalaki?
In practice hindi yan nangyayari. Hindi naman lahat na first wife matapang na kontrahin asawa niya. Meron ngang common practice doon sa BARMM na yung polygamous na lalaki pinapa abroad yung mga asawa nya habang dito lang siya sa Pinas. Pinapa dalhan nalang siya ng monthly remittances ng mga OFW na wives. Bale masarap buhay niya dito habang kayod yung mga asawa nya abroad. Baliktad sa iba imbes na lalaki mag trabaho at babae usually ang stay at home, yung lalaki na yung stay at home tuloy.
Yes, legal din ang polygamy sa Pilipinas, but only for Muslims and up to four wives only. Since 1977 iirc.
Syempre habit nila yan akala nila ikabubuti nila
Ugh people love quoting the bible just not the whole verse. Its like they ctrl find what they’re looking for but stop when it contradicts
Tuwing ginagamitan akin ng bible, tinatanong ko kung bakit sila nag aahit and kumakain ng hipon kasi ayaw din ng papa god nila yun.
lmao time to clap back with bible verses too. let's start with food to avoid mentioned in the bible. may faint memory ako na may mga bawal na food mentioned in the bible that i'm pretty sure these catholics who throw bible verses enjoy. had to double check and was right. pork and shellfish anyone? hahahaha
Pork and shellfish hindi na bawal. Yung tinutukoy mo na verse ay about sa clean and unclean animals. Hindi na yan applicable sa New Testament, Christian era. Pero yung pagkain ng dugo ng hayop ay bawal. Pati rin yung strangled animal, yung di napalabas ang dugo. Food offered to idols bawal rin.
Ang dami sa Europe na catholic countries at legal ang divorce. Germany, France, Belgium, Spain, etc. Walang kinalaman ang divorce sa religion. Kung legal ang divorce, allowed ka ng batas kahit katoliko ka pa.
I couldn't agree more with this. Clearly the Divorce Bill is being pushed as a Legal Remedy for those who badly needs it [like battered wives], pero sadly, some people took it as an attack against religion instead. Smh
Well it is also an attack/threat to the prescribed/enforced lifestyle for married religious Catholics (note: religious is not necessarily the same as faithful). Whether we agree to it or not, the Catholic religion currently does not allow for divorce. Couples who freely chose to subject their marriage to this lifestyle (absolutely no divorce) of Catholicism by having a Catholic marriage must have known this before they willingly did so. Freedom of choice does not mean that they are free of the consequences of that choice. I am not saying na dapat no way out na ang battered/abused spouse. Pwede sila magseparate and if allowed by law eventually, they can also separate all legal matters nila. However, in the eyes of the religious Catholic community, they will always be seen as "married" along with whatever social implications that may have (note: social, not legal) Understandable ang knee jerk reaction ng practicing religious Catholics because a core aspect of their chosen lifestyle is threatened. BUT OF COURSE it DOES NOT mean that their chosen lifestyle as religious Catholics should be prescribed for everybody else. So I still say yes to divorce and legal separation. Hopefully the religious Catholics can also find a meaningful solution to address the issue of abusive relationships among married Catholic couples on their end as an institution. Otherwise, I think more people will opt out of the Catholic religion.
>it DOES NOT mean that their chosen lifestyle as religious Catholics should be prescribed for everybody else. Yes. I only wish other people realize this exact statement also. Ika nga, there is no compulsion in religion. We understand the sentiments of the church, and we respect them for it. What is not respectable is shaming and judging the people who wants divorce just because they badly need it.
> Ang dami sa Europe na catholic countries at legal ang divorce. Germany, France, Belgium, Spain, etc. Walang kinalaman ang divorce sa religion. Kung legal ang divorce, allowed ka ng batas kahit katoliko ka pa. All Catholic majority countries have divorce worldwide. We're the only backward nation of any faith that does not have it for non-muslims.
Hindi lang marami, ALL catholic countries outside Vatican and PH have divorce laws.
Bobo lang talaga mga tao....
Those countries have divorce despite being Catholic because they follow secularism and secular values. Philippines, funnily enough, is founded on secular values inspired by the Liberal values of the French and America. Revolutions. Catholics who don't want Divorce to be allowed don't want secularism. They want religious values to have a say in our laws. That's a blatant rejection of the separation of Church and State. The only way you can be Catholic yet still in favor of allowing divorce is for you to accept and respect secularism. Clearly, most Filipinos do not.
Is France a catholic country? The french are pretty secular.
yeah, sa Spain nga na ng-colonize and nag-Christianize sa atin, may divorce. lels
That is exactly why people are worried. Have you seen the statistics in those countries? Divorce happens for no reason now. Just because they want to. No abuse. Nothing. Children of divorced parents have terrible outcomes compared to their peers. Lower education scores, lower relationship health, lower mental health, higher rates of crime, higher rates of suicide, higher rates of homelessness...
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Nangyari naman yan noon sa RH bill. Sasabihin lang nila yan in general pero as if i kikickout kayo or makakareceuve kayo formal letter isa isa. No one stands at church door steps para tanungin mga stand natin sa bagay bagay. The Church will always proclaim its beliefs in season and out season. Kung Katoliko, you could at least try to see bakit nila sinasabi yun at anong yung teaching behind.
It's actually interesting to note that in the Old testament, divorce was actually allowed in ancient Israel. "Suppose a man marries a woman but she does not please him**.** Having discovered something wrong with her, he writes a document of divorce, hands it to her, and sends her away from his house. 2When she leaves his house, she is free to marry another man." - Deuteronomy 24:1 '
That is exactly why Judaism, and in extension modern Israel, is quite lenient on divorce.
There are three laws: Civil law, Moral law, Ceremonial law. Ceremonial Law - Christians are not bound by ceremonial law since the church is not the nation of Israel. Moral Law - The ordinances are holy, just, and unchanging. Civil Law - These laws were specifically given for the culture and place of the Israelites and encompass all of the moral law except the Ten Commandments. So there are laws that stay in the past and laws that continue till this very day like moral laws. The divorce you are pertaining to is under Civil law and is superseded in the NT after the death of Jesus on cross, rendering those practices of the past. Jesus' death on the cross is seen as atoning for humanity's sins and ushering in a new covenant between God and humanity
Then why did Jesus implied that divorce is permissible in Matthew 19: 8, when he says,"anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."? But religious nutjobs are all for absolute no-divorce when in the Bible both in Old and New testament, divorce is allowed in many cases.
Divorce is as much allowed as knitting two fabrics together is disallowed, if you read the entire context of the verse you can see that although it was permitted, it in no uncertain terms sees divorce as something immoral. 6. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” 7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Mukhang matutuluyan na akong ma-kick out sa ministry :D
If your church doesn't allow free thinking, then it's time you reconsider.
Ako, ako nalang kusang umalis kasi ang hirap din mag-serve tas magsasabi ka ng ganito, ganyan na iba naman sa pinaniniwalaan mo personally.
Meanwhile sa church namin, divided ang members sa divorce, at ang pastor namin ayaw pa mag comment haha
The people who use religion as a stance of anti-divorce are mostly the same people who don't actively practice or abide their faith. Naging faithful and very religious na agad ang mindset nila ng nagkaroon ng divorce issue. Bunch of hypocrites. Nakalimutan na nila agad na sila mismo di na nasunod sa Ten Commandments. Lalo na ang Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery and Thou Shall not Covet. Naging maalam na agad sa laws of God even if they don't follow it. May pa Bible verses pa. Basahin nyo lahat wag maging selective. God hates Divorce, well God hates more sins that a failed marriage creates, more than He hates divorce. Kung sana sa mga may stance na anti-divorce e napakafaithful nyo sa kinaaniban nyo at everyday you follow all the teachings religiously, maiintindihan ko pa e. Puro self-righteous kasi at ginagamit pa sarili nilang happiness. I mean WTF. You're happy so dapat everybody happy. If the church is so strict and the people who follow it are so faithful, why does marriage fall apart? And what does the church do about it to fix it? How does it help? There are many people who are blinded enough by the virtues established by religion to cover up battery, cheating, adultery, and abuse. Hanggang kelan sila magtitiis under the preservation of the sanctity of marriage. Do those faithful know what happens when a marriage falls apart and it cannot be saved anymore? Wake up, religion won't save you. Faith in God and that there's a goodness in humanity will. Divorce is just a means to achieve that. Also people forget that God forgives those who deserve it. Divorce doesn't destroy one's faith in God, in fact for some once granted, it even establishes that He exists and finally they found the hope that their life will get better after all.
I'm Catholic and I'm pro-divorce FOR OTHER PEOPLE. I don't see why I need to impose my religious beliefs on people who don't share them.
True, me too. I don't see why people nor the Senate pushed it during the 2000s when Italy, the home of Vatican city have divorce even our previous colonizers Spain who introduced Christianity to us have divorce law
People who use religious doctrine to prevent others from getting out of an abusive relationship are also complicit in the abuse. They are handing the gun to the killer. Jewish people have an interesting principle called "Pikuach nefesh" which basically means Jewish doctrine takes a backseat if a life is at stake, that it is ok to break religious rules if you need to save a life. I saw an episode of Law and Order where Stabler was very aggressive in pursuing a suspect (a rabbi, suspected p*do). The cop apologized when he found out the rabbi was innocent. Said rabbi forgave him, citing that same principle because the cop was trying to save the life of a child. If I am breaking religious rules by supporting divorce, then so be it. I'd rather not have some person or child die because they are in an abusive environment.
Yep, yan din ang provision sa Talmud na nagligtas sa buhay ng Jews nung WW2. It allowed them to eat pork, helping them evade arrest and death.
That's an interesting historical factoid! Another recent example was during the covid pandemic. When uber-religious nuts in the states were using doctrine as an excuse not to get vaxxed, Jewish leaders used this as a counter argument.
a lot of catholics also have premarital sex 🤷 IMO your faith and how you practice it are very different things
True,. Its already 2024 ,. Paurong padn silang mag isip
The laws of the church shouldn’t be equal to the laws of the state. Otherwise, pwede kang kulungin dahil sa pag dya jakol.
>**Kailangan na ba ko maexcommunicate** By simply googling (I encourage you to do it), the answer is NO. The **actual** divorced people are even encourage to join Church activities. What more the people who aren't even divorce but have pro-stance. Still, the Catholic Church teaching and stance on divorce doesn't and will not change. Divorced people are welcome to the church. Note that if one wish to re-marry at the Church, annulment is a requirement. >**Akala ko kasi ang religion eh personal relationship kay God. Hindi opinion on divorce...** Yes. It's about personal relationship with God. But also remember that the The Catholic Church have set of teachings that they firmly believe and follow, and called for it's followers to the same. They have a set of teachings about divorce, it's not just an opinion for them. You can't nitpick those teachings.
We are not governed by church laws. Hindi naman tayo theocracy tulad ng Saudi at Iran. We are a democracy with laws crafted by men.
And religious groups, as private entities, can voice and promote their opinions in said democracy too. And for their internal processes and stuff, private groups in general are not compelled to agree or recognize everything the govt wants under the **freedom of association.** So divorced couples don't have the right to 2nd marriages in places of worship if the religious group does not allow that.
I absolutely agree! I'm just simply providing answers to the question of OP who is a Catholic.
don't be fooled. Hindi lahat ng Catholic against sa divorce. Besides, Matthew 5:31-32 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." this clearly states that except for when infidelity happens, divorce is not allowed. and then we have Psalms 11:5 "The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, He hates with a passion." this one indicates that God Himself hates violence. the main point of divorce is because of infidelity and violence against the spouse. Hindi ko alam kung ano bang lugar nagsabi n'yan, pero yung Catholic church namin sa bayan namin pabor sila sa divorce dahil they believe that God doesn't tolerate violence and infidelity, which can be pictured naman sa 10 Commandments. TBH, hindi ako masyadong religious but thanks to the Catholic school kung saan ako nag-aral, may mga nabitbit akong aral from the Bible and not just out of context ones, na-explain talaga nila ang meaning behind.
Religion being a “personal relationship with God” is mostly a Protestant understanding. If you’re Catholic you also have to accept Church teachings and doctrines in addition to your personal relationship with God. So unless you want to convert to Protestantism, then you’re going to experience a lot of cognitive dissonance if you’re pro-divorce and Catholic at the same time.
You can still be pro-divorce and NOT get a divorce for yourself. You can acknowledge that some people need it, but don’t do it yourself. Is that NOT Catholic? Why in Spain legal ang divorce since around 1980s pa? Why is divorce legal in ALL other Catholic-majority countries? Have you thought about that?
>Why in Spain legal ang divorce since around 1980s pa? You know what else happend in the 80s? Franco recently died in 1975, Spain then transitioned into a liberal democracy like it was before Franco. >Why is divorce legal in ALL other Catholic-majority countries? Because Catholicism is losing its grip on most countries. I'm not saying they aren't religious. What I'm saying is they are steadily going irreligious. >Have you thought about that? But have you thought about why these countries allowed divorce? It's not because of Catholicism, that's for sure. Religion should be kept out of any halls of power, especially of legislation.
I agree with separation of the Church and State. But what I was discussing here with the original commenter was his stance on how you can’t be Catholic and be Pro-Divorce.
I noticed na most against Divorce eh yung mga successful in their family responsibilities. They have not experienced violence in their households. Also, they uphold Malachi 2:16. But the thing is, kung sino pa yung nag divorce na na-agrabyado eh sila pa rin yung masama. There is no divorce if there's no problem with a family.
Or yung may ayaw ng divorce yung mismong gumagawa ng violence sa loob ng bahay.
Catholic buong angkan namin pero pro divorce kami. Take note, sagradong catholic kami na may mga alagang pari and yung mga elders namin everyday nagsisimba, yung mga ganung catholic talaga. Pero since sa loob ng angkan namin may mga failed marriages, nakita namin kung ano effect ng walang divorce, kaya pro divorce kami.
I am a Catholic. I am pro-divorce as a Filipino, not as a Catholic. I can get married outside Catholicism, I can get divorced outside Catholicism.
Parehas tayo, I am a Catholic too and I am Pro-Divorce. Hindi para sa akin e, pero para sa mga taong nangangailangan nito. Hindi ko ipagkakait yung chance and mercy to start over fresh sa mga taong need ito kasi ako mismo nakaranas ng mercy and multiple chances bigay ng Panginoon. Huwag natin ipagkait ang accessibility na ito esp to those who need it most. Hindi naman pagka nagkaroon ng conflict e automatic divorce, dyan naman papasok ang marriage counselling. Ito ay isa lamang option so that both persons esp the oppressed can move on sa buhay niya away from his oppressor. Mas nagiging makasalanan ang pagsasama ng mag-asawa kung ito ay puno ng poot at pasakit.
theyre just trying to sway your support. Parang its saying You cant be catholic and you cant make a sin because God hates sins. Parang ano yun, si God pwede forgiving ang catholic church hindi? Thats wild.
Hahaha. How about mga tao sa Italy kung saan may divorce at andun ang Roma? Sa ibang parte ng mundo na may mga Catholic? Tatablahin niyo din ba? Sagad sa katangahan
Catholic ako pero pro divorce. Kasi why deprive people of their freedom to choose? Hindi naman porket masaya ako sa pamilya ko at hindi ako makikipagdivorce eh pipigilan na kitang makipag divorce sa asawa mong abusive. Doesn't make any fvcking sense.
What Malachi wrote in 500BC, in its original form and context, was “ONLY” translated into “God Hates Divorce” in 500AD when the King James Bible was written. I believe six versions before, this was interpreted as “anti-treachery.” The interpretation “God Hates Divorce” remained on all versions until 1996, when the “Dead Sea Scrolls” containing the oldest known fragments of Malachi 2:16, was discovered. This gave scholars a chance to review and once again interpret from its closest original text. New versions since then carried an updated interpretation of “God Hates Divorce”. The Christian Standard Bible of 2003 states: “If he hates and divorce [his wife], says the Lord Hod of Israel” New International Version 2011 (updated): “The man who hates and divorces his wife” says the Lord, the God of Israel” English Standard Version, 2011: “For the man who does not love his wife, but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel” I did NOT post this to advocate a stand, rather to provide updated context on the use.
This is why ang hirap mag depend sa translated texts specially yung ESV bible kasi grabe yung discrepancy ng meaning and it's leaning towards the west's conservatives views.
I hate when they pick a line from the Bible and don’t understand the context of it. ‘Go forth and multiply’ - this was said when the world wasnt as crowded as it is now. Sarap ireiterate na pag pinasa po na pwede ang divorce hindi po maghihiwalay lahat ng kasal. Yung nangangailangan lang at yung afford ito
You can be both Catholic and pro-divorce if your definition of marriage under law is different from your definition of a marriage bound by the holy sacrament of matrimony. A civil partnership under law should not the same as marriage bound by the holy sacrament of matrimony. This way, divorce can actually add more value to the holy sacrament of matrimony because it entails that you can only get it once. At the end of the day, both sides are just arguing semantics.
Katoliko lang ako sa papel pero may sarili at personal akong relasyon sa Diyos na hindi kinakailangan sumunod sa mga batas ng Katolisismo.
The bible is the word of God. Eto na lang. Bible with no Holy Spirit - You dry up Holy Spirit without the bible - You blow up Bible with the Holy Spirit - You grow up I'm neither RC nor Protestant. Di rin ako nafofollow sa traditions of men.
Jesus is the only one you need. Amen to that.🥰
As it should be. Our relationship with God should be completely personal. Yung mga large communities of worship (ex. attending mass, joining parish clubs) are supposed to serve as a guide [emphasis on this kasi people tend to misinterpret guides as 'rigid rules'] to help you build your personal relationship with God and it can also be something you can go to when you want to build a sense of community.
Same here OP >< parang feeling ko maiimpyerno ako dahil pro divorce ako pero strong ang Catholic faith ko. The Church says no, I also have argued with my aunts who are currently nuns about this but they will never understand yet with the abuse in the family and ilang pieces pa ba ng tao para magtiis sa ganyang relasyon, I would want a divorce. Tawag ko na din sa sarili ko hypocrite pero ang hirap talaga hahaha
sa ngayon, hirap na hirap ang kalooban ko. kailangan ko ng divorce dahil nadead end ako sa annulment. hindi rin pumayag ang abogado na magfile ako ng kaso na concubenage. hindi ko naman ginusto sitwasyon ko. pinaglaban ko naman yung kasal ko, pero wala eh...
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Wala namang kaso kung ayaw nila ng divorce. Edi wag silang mag divorce. Pero make it a choice for other people who might need it.
Time to get rid of that cult.
The good Lord affords us the chance at forgiveness even after committing the most grievous of sins. And yet these people use his words to spout hate and contempt.
Non religious person here but I always believe that you can practice your faith without your church. Pag pinaalis or tinaboy ka, you're still free and able to do things according to your religion/faith.
It's not Catholic Church policy to shun/excommunicate members with differing opinions. If they did, the Philippines would no longer be majority Catholic during the murderous presidency of duterte.
Well, you cant be catholic tas sasamba sa Nazareno.
One of the many reasons why I consider myself ex-Catholic (agnostic na ako, previously atheist). This is something you cannot argue. Non-negotiable yan. Being enrolled for 14+ years in Catholic schools, we have bee taught na almost dogma na ang stance ng Vatican diyan, along with abortion and same-sex marriage. And I do not see a future na they will amend their stance with these. I believe the Catholic Church would rather fade into obscurity and irrelevance than bend their rules for these.
The Church sees itself as a moral authority. Tama ka never talaga sila magcocompromise. Because if they did, that would undermine their moral and spiritual leadership. Pero they (Pope Francis) have made remarks in a more inclusive rhetoric than most of these Filipino catholics. Kaya I think there is a chance na etong iba ay kaya ring i-approach etong mga contemporary issues ng mundo ng mga pusong nag-iisip. But then again, he's a pope. and there aren't many popes.
bakit ba ayaw ng mga religious people ng divorce? sa totoo lang nakakainis na yung mga religious at pulitiko na against sa divorce, mga hypocrites! kung masaya kayo sa marriage nyo stay in your marriage! pero ‘wag nyo pagdamutan yung mga tao na nasa miserableng pagsasama. they deserve to be freed!
so we are cherry picking bible verses now?
In my experience as an active Catholic, we don't cherry pick. Kaso ngayong nabuhay ulit usapin ng divorce, nagsilabasan mga cherry pickers na kakilala ko na tinagurian pa naman na apologetics. some of their arguments are downright stupid (i know the one who came up with the "abusive spouse will just jump from one partner to another" bullshit) because they can't reconcile anti divorce with real stories
Curious lang ako. Do we stick to the whole Bible ba or New Testament lang? Kasi there's a lot more rules na di nila sinusunod na nasa Old Testament.
Parang mind set nung isang kulto ah.
As a Catholic, we don't claim him. I know the group that made that post and they have unironically been reduced to cherry picking verses despite being apologetics.
Because Catholic is trusting The words of God
Yeah pero talo naman si Malachi kay Adam Copeland so what does he know
And yet Jesus supported divorce due to infidelity. (Matthew 19:8-9) Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery”
LOL does it summarize it all or is part of the whole?
Puno't dulo naman invalid ang marriage. Matthew 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
I'm a Catholic til death BUT I'M PRO DIVORCE. Madami ng ama, ina at anak ang nakulong sa pamilya na maari naman sana nilang takasan kung may pagkakataon lang. Ito na ang susi para maiwasan na ang domestic violence at matakasan ang mapang abusong kinakasama. PERO SANA MAY LIMITASYON DIN ITO PARA SA TAONG MAPANG ABUSO NA HINDI NA PWEDE PANG IKASAL SA IBA AT BAKA GAWIN NIYA LANG DIN ULIT. KUNG SAKALI KASING MAGKAROON ULIT SYA NG PAMILYA MAARING BAGONG BIKTIMA NA NAMAN NYA ITO SA KARAHASAN.
it's a covenant with god daw!!! it's a sacrament! Tapos yung pari pwede umalis ng simbahan.... like wtf hahah dapat yung mga pari may legal basis didn na di sila pwede umalis ng simbahan kung ganun haha.
Well, Roman Catholicism is not the same are your usual offshoot RC cult varieties that spouted the "personal relationship with god" BS. The church is literally the flock. You dont have a personal god or a personal relationship with god, you share that with the church. Thats what self important and self righteous christian derivative cults like to preach. And you cant be pro divorce if you believe in the sanctity of marriage. Marriage is one of the sacred sacraments. There's no pick and choose in the RC faith. Either youre an agnostic, like me, or an atheist. You can't call yourself catholic if you go against any of the sacred sacraments. Why do self professed catholics lack understanding in their own faith, the one they subscribed to?!?
Mark Chapter 10: Jesus (God) is very clear The Pharisees approached and asked, “Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?” They were testing him. He said to them in reply, “What did Moses command you?” They replied, “Moses permitted him to write a bill of divorce and dismiss her.”b But Jesus told them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother [and be joined to his wife], and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”
using the lords words to promote your social agenda i see thats blasphemy
Cherry picking na naman. Halatado talagang nagpa-parrot lang ng sinasabi ng iba without taking a pause to check if totoo ba o hindi. If you read the entirety of Malachi chapter 2, it's about God talking about being unfaithful of the spouse. If you read the full verse, the last two sentences, say "therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously". One can argue that while God does hate divorce, sa context ng Malachi chapter 2, masasabing, huwag kayong maging unfaithful sa inyong mga asawa. Dahil ang resulta niyan, divorce, and he doesn't like divorce. The root cause there is not divorce but cruelty and infidelity. Divorce is merely the result of the problem. Nowhere in the bible says divorce is forbidden. He just doesn't like it. Tangna, atheist akong naturingan pero mas kabisado ko pa ang bibliya kesa sa mga relihiyosong tukmol na'to.
>Kailangan na ba akong maexcommunicate? No. Excommunications of this type are automatic. Those who knowingly reject and oppose Jesus Christ's direct teaching: >So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matthew 19:6) Break communion with Christ by their willful choice to promote sin and reject His teachings. However, not everyone who supports the Divorce Law is knowingly and willfully rejecting Christ. Many are following their own conscience and believe that what they are doing is right. As the Catechism says, >"it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed." (1790) Such a person is not excommunicated. Their heresy is only material and not formal. If they truly understood and believed that by holding this view they were rejecting Christ, they would certainly choose Christ over their erroneous understanding. >Ito na ba ang basehan ng pananampalataya ngayon? The basis of the Faith is Jesus Christ - conformity to his will and trust in his teachings. But, today we don't have faith. We always want to follow our own ideas. St. John Paul II wrote *Faith and Reason* and *Splendour of Truth* for people of this age, so that we would not forget what it means to have faith and follow Jesus. For me, I didn't have faith, I thought I knew better than Jesus. It was only after someone showed me the very bad situation in the USA that I finally accepted that I was wrong. I didn't trust Jesus. I didn't have faith. I trusted the science and the statistics. This is what the research from the US shows: >divorce has been shown to diminish a child's future competence in all areas of life, including family relationships, education, emotional well-being, and future earning power. >Two large meta-analyses, one reported in 1991 and the other reported ten years later in 2001, showed that “children with divorced parents continued to score significantly lower on measures of academic achievement, conduct, psychological adjustment, self-concept, and social relations” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/ If their parents find new partners, children are 40 times more likely than those who live with biological parents to be abused https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0162309585900123 Sexual abuse is much more likely in single parent (4.8 times), other (non-biological) married parents (10 times) and single parent with a cohabiting partner (19.8 times) households than in married biological parent homes https://www.acf.hhs.gov/opre/project/national-incidence-study-child-abuse-and-neglect-nis-4-2004-2009 Children of parents that remarry have a 4,000% increased risk of abuse and a 1,980% increased risk of sexual abuse specifically. My conscience told me re-marriage after an abusive relationship would he good for the mom and kids. That made sense to me. I said, "Jesus was wrong about this." And then, I saw the research. And, I know that 4,000% is VERY high, it is an enormous increase in risk. If someone told me I had a 4,000% chance of winning the lottery I would spend all my money on buying tickets, because it's a guarantee! So, I believed the science. I am ashamed to say, I didn't trust Jesus, I didn't trust the Church. I only trusted myself and the science. >Official statement ba ito ng CBCP? The official statement is here: https://cbcponline.net/statement-on-the-divorce-bill/ >Akala ko kase ang religion eh personal relationship with God. Hindi opinion sa divorce... The Church doesn't have opinions. She has many teachings from Jesus. Jesus taught about Divorce specifically in the Gospel. A personal relationship is very important. But, imagine having a personal relationship with God, and you tell him that you read his teaching in the Bible and decided your ideas were better. Do you think that is a very good relationship?
You can't pick and choose parts of your religion and call it "faith". You either believe that marriage is a life long commitment and that divorce is a sin, otherwise you're going against God. Or you don't believe in the bible and you're not a catholic. Although a lot of people in the Philippines are religious nutjobs, at least they're following the catholic religion, as insane as it is
You absolutely can pick and choose parts of your religion and call it faith. It's called choosing which church and doctrine to follow. Now within the church and doctrine, maybe not. But there's really nothing saying you can't choose a different religion/variant. And both variants would say that they're the "real religion", whatever that means.
Sure but then you're no longer part of that religion. You're not a catholic if you don't follow the catholic religion. You can't pick and choose the bits you like and ignore the bits you don't like and still call yourself a catholic
OP, If you will just step back and rethink about it, it's like being in school. When you enrol in a school, you are technically under their rules and you need to abide by their rules because you are a member, not the owner.. If the school is conservative and says that you cannot cross dress there and you don't want to follow that, then feel free to disassociate yourself from that institution BUT what you shouldn't do is to cherry pick what you want and just follow what suits you. That's only fair. Similarly, once you're already working in a company, the moment you get hired, you are bound to follow all the company rules in order to call yourself a member of that company. If HR says to dress appropriately and you chose to wear pambahay, they have all the right to disassociate themselves from you cause you don't represent them. Diba fair lang naman ang statement nila OP? Kung ayaw mo sa rules nila, layasan mo. Hindi kasama sa equation yung ipagsiksikan mo sarili mo sa lugar na ayaw mo naman ang batas, hindi ba? And if you think you can burn that institution down, mind you, a lot of empires tried that one and it even involved killing lots of them before but they're still here. How much more yung ngangawa ka lang OP? You think bad mouthing them would destroy them? May option din like me na lumayas ako tapos umanib nalang ako sa grupong swak sa gusto kong paniniwala. Ganun nalang din gawin mo OP. Kahit naman magpuputak yang mga yan, at the end of the day hindi naman sila ang boboto.
Edi don’t! Pero pag yung mga manyak and issue ng mga pari tahimik lang 😌
You cant be anti divorce and not be dumb
What the?!?
Kahit panahon ni Jesus may divorce na (among the Jewish meron). Ganun ka backward ang Pilipinas. Lol.
>Matthew 19:7-9 >They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, **except for sexual immorality**, and marries another, commits adultery.” So it turns out, even for Jesus, there are some valid grounds for divorce. When asked by pharisees "why did Moses allow divorce?" sagot ni Jesus "because of your 'hardness of heart'". Even if, granted, God did not design man and woman to divorce, it seems na on some level, it's ok. Fwiw, Jesus would probably be supportive of at-fault divorce (and probably not supportive of no-fault divorce). And hey, even if we get at-fault divorce, that's a huge step forward narin.
Being Catholic is the problem ... you're following a cult forced onto this country by the Spanish. You had no choice. You're probably just following your parents in their beliefs. You hear a lie frequently enough, it starts to become truth. Divorce is a huge money maker for the cult.
Im Catholic and im PRO DIVORCE!!!
Basta religious most of the time bobo. Mga feeling righteous.
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Parang fan ng political group eh. Pala desisyon sa buhay.
I am a Catholic and I am okay with the divorce bill. Pano na ako, bawal na ba akong magsimba sa sunday? 🥺
So what does that make the Vatican / Italians then that have allowed divorce for decades?
Mas matimbang ba talaga para sa iba ang kanilang religion compared sa kalayaan at karapatang binibigay ng divorce para umalis sa mapang-abuso at unfulfilling na marriage? Ewan ko din ba. For sure naman nakikita nila yung dilemma. So okay lang na inaabuso ka ng asawa mo? Basta mapanatili mo ang pagiging katoliko mo? At wala kayong pakealam sa mga taong nagdudusa ngayon at kailangan ang divorce? Ang mahalaga katoliko kayo? Ewan ko lang kung ano pang essence ng relihiyosong kabutihan eh parang hindi naman kayo nakakaramdam para sa ibang tao.
So i-aasa nalang lahat ng bagay sa religion? Di na talaga gagamitin ang mga 5 senses para mag-observe at mag-conclude? Kala ko ba god gave us freedom? Napaka-inconsistent ng ibang religious people.
yung di align sa gusto mo kaya ni-redact mo yung bible yung buong verse is: "For the man who hates and divorces his wife, says the Lord, the God of Israel, does violence to the one he should protect, says the Lord Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful" which is pretty neutral to me
If we ever debate on Divorce, the best thing we can cite is the Constitution and the Family Code since these will be the basis for the legality of divorce. Not the Bible because the State does not support a religion
And the scientific evidence. I think the best argument is the evidence from the scientific studies and nation-wide statistics in the USA. The USA has open divorce law for any reason. The research shows that the majority of divorces are not preceded by abuse or conflict. ([Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/)) That lack of conflict and abuse in the majority of cases is important to remember when you consider the rest of the data. Research demonstrates: >divorce has been shown to diminish a child's future competence in all areas of life, including family relationships, education, emotional well-being, and future earning power. >Two large meta-analyses, one reported in 1991 and the other reported ten years later in 2001, showed that “children with divorced parents continued to score significantly lower on measures of academic achievement, conduct, psychological adjustment, self-concept, and social relations” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/ Sexual abuse is much more likely in single parent (4.8 times), remarried parents (10 times), and single parent with a cohabiting partner (19.8 times) households than in married biological parent homes https://www.acf.hhs.gov/opre/project/national-incidence-study-child-abuse-and-neglect-nis-4-2004-2009 According to the Census Bureau and FBI, children from single-parent homes are: - 72% of all teenage murderers. - 60% of rapists. - 70% of kids incarcerated. - 2 times as likely to quit school. - 11 times more likely to be violent. - 3/4 teen suicides. - 80% of the adolescents in psychiatric hospitals. - 90% of runaways Again, it is important to remember that this can't be explained by exposure to abuse or damaging home environments because in the US the majority of divorces are for other less serious reasons. These are the consequences of divorce and remarriage, even when there has been no abuse. To me this is the most serious argument. For me it makes sense to look at the statistical data and the scientific research to see the advantages and disadvantages.
Catholic ako pero cringe talaga yung ginagawa ng mga hardcore religious peeps. Shino-shove nila ang faith nila sa lahat na parang sila lang ang religion sa mundo. Lakas makasabi ng no to divorce pero may mga sugar babies naman habang kasal.
Kahit yung bansang nagdala ng Catholicism sa atin may Divorce?
This is noted.
It's funny kase I am in a catholic school and in our subjects of religious education and araling panlipunan, we were taught the seperation of church and state. i find it funny that mere adults do not even practice this "agreement" and instead use Christianity as an influence when it is not even accurate nor appropriate given the situation. Even funnier nga is the fact that people who often use Christianity as a basis for their arguments are not devout christians themselves.
When you read the passage in Matthew 19 about divorce, you'll see that Jesus actually makes an exception. Take a look at verse 9, which says, "... except for sexual immorality." It's true that the bill is too loose according to biblical standards. But the point is that it's not about whether or not divorce should be legal, but how hard it should be to obtain a divorce.
Catholics like this need to separate their religious beliefs from state affairs. If they're so against divorce then they shouldn't get one, fine, but they shouldn't involve their religious beliefs in the lives of others. As a Pastafarian, I don't want to legislate laws that force people to eat past everyday do I?
sa tagalog, MBBTAG added context verse 15 Malakias 2:15-16 15 Hindi ba't pinag-isa kayo ng Diyos sa katawan at sa espiritu? Ang layunin niya ay upang maging tunay na mga anak ng Diyos ang inyong mga supling. Kaya't huwag ninyong pagtaksilan ang babaing pinakasalan ninyo nang kayo'y kabataan pa. 16 “Nasusuklam ako sa pagpapalayas at paghihiwalay ng mga mag-asawa,” sabi ni Yahweh, ang Diyos ng Israel. “Napopoot ako sa taong gumagawa ng kalupitan sa kanyang asawa. Kaya nga maging tapat kayo sa inyong asawa.”
HAHAHAHA sabe ng kakilala mong lakas maka play ng VICTIM CARD. pag naapi BIBLE QUOTE ang response. basura naman ugale. 😆😆😆
I’m a follower of God, and I believe what you said, truly, but... can two people walk together unless they agree? Amos 3:3. If they really can’t stay together, people who can’t get along should separate. But a person should not remarry if their spouse is still alive, so this means God really doesn’t want divorce. If they really separate, they shouldn’t remarry as long as the spouse is still alive. Like Jason and Moira, they separated but Jason didn’t remarry anyone else, because that would be a sin, adultery.
The Bible permits divorce under certain conditions, and as a Catholic as you claim you are, you are bound by those conditions. Not just the human laws. While I am religious , I also believe religion should not dictate laws unless everyone shares the same faith. Divorce should be an option if the majority supports it. Lawmakers must study this issue carefully and not let personal opinions, faith, or personal experiences influence their decisions.
Relihiyon talaga ang hadlang sa collective consensus when it comes to legality of a certain issue. Kaya nagkakagulu-gulo ang mga tao at walang pagkakaisa. Kung naging Budismo o Islam kaya ang relihiyon sa Pinas, hindi siguro ganito kalala ang diskusyon.
Politics and religion, where you find the highest form of hypocrisy
DOGMA
As a moderate conservative/classical liberal (and admittedly, an agnostic atheist), religious social conservatives give conservatism a bad name and they give me the creeps. Their zealotry without genuine care for the suffering of others reeks of psychopathy. At its core, without other distractions like religious zealotry, conservatism simply means conserving time-tested institutions like forms of government, economy, and sociocultural norms. Along with that, for me, conservatism is basically saying "hold up, wait a second" on any progress that has not been scrutinized enough and when people push it without safety parameters provided by either constitution or the general will of the people. Divorce is a subject that has been OK'd by the people. Look for polls in our country about it and the majority favor it, even those who deem themselves religious. Why? Because if you really wanna protect marriage and the idea of its sanctity, then the neutral secular machine of the government/state has the responsibility to enact laws that provide leeway for persons who want to re-marry escaping a previously bad marriage, thus giving posterity a better view of marriage: that marriage should never be AND is not a hell-hole. The state has the ability to craft safety mechanism in it for it not to be abused. Read Rep. Edcel Lagman's breakdown of the bill. Don't fear it. Fellow conservatives with thinking brains and functioning hearts should read the fine print of the divorce bill and actually study the difference between annulment and our very own version of divorce. To answer the question, yes you still can be Catholic and be pro-divorce. Follow what both common sense and conscience tell you.
Outdated na kasi mga lumang religions. Kita mo nga sa Bible, parang mababa pa rin ang tingin sa babae. Pasakop daw sa lalaki pero sigurado may magandang paliwanag ang mga pari dyan,haha
Ang context naman nyan is yung husband (Jews) eh napaka unfaithful. So even before pa, may divorce na din. Actually, may divorce talaga mga ancient jews.