I don’t even see how this is a question. Literally 20/20 top pb pros in every division were ex tennis players.
I’m not seeing table tennis ex pros transitioning to pb crushers
That’s not the reason Top TT players aren’t on the pb tour. Tennis probably has 10x more running, 10x more difficult. It’s probably the racket sport that has the heaviest racket so anything else is super easy to wield, tennis as a racket sport requires the most skill/athleticism/strength so everything else is easy.
My mom and grandma play pb thxgiving and Christmas. On the tennis court they can’t even swing a racket because it’s too heavy, their wrist/arm and body aren’t strong enough. If you hit it with spin or pace or served a ball no way they could hold a racket steady. Tennis players are playing on court 4x smaller with a racket this is 4x less swingweight, it’s like the staples Easy mode for them.
Guys like Johns, Johnson Bros, Stakestrud (sp), Alshon couldn’t even make it as pro players, they maybe got a 1000th tennis ranking but are all top 10 PB players. ALW was maybe a decent junior tennis player but it’s not like she was even good to win Easter Bowl, Orange Bowl, Kalamazoo, junior US Open, and she wrecks everyone.
It actually is 10x. Some of my relatives played college TT in Europe many years ago and play club TT now. I used to play them before it was rally scoring, rally scoring I can get a few points here there and I can be competitive in rallies.
When we play tennis if I hit a hard serve, they can’t even swing the racket or a kick serve, they can’t even get to drop shots, or hit overheads.
They look like a fish out of water playing tennis, their wrist isn’t strong enough for tennis, their movement is great for TT but they can’t cover the tennis court.
We’ve played great table table tennis players in college and yes it’s still a massacre but we could stay in rallies, get drop shots and sometimes we blast winners.
No table tennis player ever came close in a tennis match. They literally couldn’t even return serve and their dink serves literally get crushed like it’s a feed if they even got it in.
This applies to badminton also, relatives that played decent badminton and club badminton in college and my 1st time out playing badminton in 10+ years as a tennis player they couldn’t beat me. When we play tennis if I don’t hit it back to them with no spin they can’t swing a racket, they hit probably 500,000 overheads in badminton but they literally can’t an overhead in or cover it correctly, or if I hit a topspin lob or one with depth there’s no chance.
The speed of badminton is fast but the birdie has no weight so even tennis players can handle the fastest badminton players shot. If I hit a hard topspin shot or serve they can’t even hold on to the racket mostly likely they don’t even make contact or if they do it twists in their hand. If you’re a 4.5+ tennis player take any equivalent ping pong/badminton player play their sport and then reverse and have them play tennis, you’ll see the results for yourself (unless the ping pong/badminton player has a decent tennis background like Ben John’s).
So explain why the pro tennis players who have come over to the PB pro tour aren’t dominating? Jack Sock is fun to watch, but has underwhelmed so far. Genie Bouchard is just bad. Sam Querrey is just bad.
Tennis players dominate rec courts because the game is unrefined and can be won in transition, and is also often lost in transition, due to unforced errors.
But in pro, if the tennis player doesn’t win the point in transition, and ends up in neutral, they are at a disadvantage to the “failed tennis players”. Because it’s a different game.
The tennis skills aren’t useful at the kitchen. And the game is won and lost at the kitchen line, you’re not going to blow people away with groundstrokes from the baseline or from transition at the pro level.
It isn't like their aren't tennis skills that transfer over to playing at the kitchen line. I'd argue that Jack Sock just isn't the guy to showcase them at an elite level. Outside of having an absolutely ridiculous forehand, there was nothing remarkable about his game at the pro level. Genie Bouchard was washed up in tennis for quite some time, never really lived up to the hype in the first place, and never really had a transition or net game to speak of. Sam Querry is also past his prime. Despite being pretty tall (which might be more of a hindrance in pickleball) he played a predominantly baseline game.
I'd love to see someone like Mike and Bob Bryan play pickleball. They are "old" for pro sports as well now, but I'm sure they would absolutely wreck some people
No offense, but to me I see a lot of excuses and goalpost moving here. Sock was no. 2 in the world in doubles and no. 8 in singles. Bouchard made a Wimbledon final didn’t she?
At that level, they should have enough advantage if tennis inherently has that much advantage. Tennis ultimately doesn’t translate as well as people think to doubles pickleball, because in tennis you don’t purposefully hit the shot soft. Tennis translates immediately to singles, and to lower level doubles. But high level doubles is a different game.
I'm not one of the people saying any tennis player could switch and straight up dominate pickleball. You're not entirely wrong, that's why I pointed out the distinct lack of anything resembling a net game from all of these players. If you think there is no place for touch in tennis, then you don't know tennis as well as you think.
It's not exactly a touch drill, but go to YouTube and search Bryan brothers Romanian volley drill (maybe RVD), and tell me they couldn't have dominated at the kitchen line.
Edit - my personal experience as someone who was admittedly a better doubles player than singles player for a variety of reasons... I've had people identify me immediately as a tennis player on the pickleball court when they first play me, only to be surprised when I out dink them, play crafty angles, and generally use touch and placement along with the big topspin forehand and backhand drives.
While true in the long run, this match would be between 4 completely cold players. And I'd give the advantage to tennis players. Table tennis might help you fine tune your game, but the on-court experience will benefit tennis players more.
Yep. Table tennis background could turn a 4.5 into a 5.0, but tennis can turn a beginner into a 4.5. I do think tennis players tend to hit a wall where they quickly progress to the point where they start losing hands battles. Hand reaction time is the biggest limiter on upside.
Its not just semantics, Table Tennis is not Ping Pong. Olympic style table tennis is its own game and while I have known tennis players that play good table tennis they don't have the form or the style of play that would be conducive to playing high level table tennis.
Totally agree but I will say that my best friend (who has always been a great table tennis player) picked up a nasty slice and backspin in the first game he ever played. Of course tennis players could do the same, but it’s impressive to see a table tennis player transition the skills instantly.
The 1 of best PB became the best because he had extensive tennis AND TT background. If he only had extensive TT he wouldn’t be the best.
While the other top 20/20 in men’s, women’s, mixed, probably 5.0, 4.5, 4.0 division all had extensive tennis background. Hmmm what’s the commonality?
And when I say 20/20 it probably is top 50/50 but I don’t want to looking at rankings and looking at their ITF or college record. It might be 49/50 but the point still stands.
ALW was a soccer player more than anything. Sure she probably played tennis, but she could’ve done really well in soccer. Idk why you’re arguing that tennis helps, we all know it does, but all racquet/paddle sports help with the transition to pb lol. That’s like arguing that the sky is blue
I disagree with that though. Racquetball and squash don't translate that well. Neither features topspin, and pickleball is a top spin game. Table tennis does have topspin, though the technique is more useful for rollers at the kitchen than baseline drives.
Yeah racquetball is all wrist baby whereas pickleball is rarely any, the weight/feel to it all with have racquetball players just launching it into the net or fence if they try to swing at it
Any racket sport background will have a lot of benefits coming into pickleball. I come from squash. Racquetball. And Padel.
Just the athleticism and footwork you bring are very helpful. Shot selection. Power. Grip shifting. Etc. all are very helpful coming to pickleball.
In my experience, racquetball players hit with the paddle face open, causing the ball to travel in an upward trajectory. I would say that of all the racket sports, racquetball has the least transferrable skills.
They handle power hit at them well, but that's about it. They can look impressive against 3.0s with hard, flat shots, but they are pretty much starting from scratch with mechanics.
I'm pretty good at table tennis and played racquetball for 10 years before converting to pickleball. I don't think table tennis is particularly useful for pickleball. I guess it would help for reflexes, but you already get plenty of that from racquetball.
How racquetball helps you in pickleball
> power
> quickness
> understanding court positioning
> tournament experience
> footwork
racquetball doesn't help you with
> hitting topspin or slice
> correct swing mechanics for pickleball, basically had to relearn a lot of it
> two handed backhand
I had to learn drop shots from scratch. Drives were powerful but went out of bounds a lot till I mastered topspin. Hand speed was pretty good from day 1. Serving was pretty easy to pickup. Overheads were easy.
I found that the racquetball backhand defensive lob stroke delivers a great slice stroke for pickleball. Actually, the backhand stroke, generally, feels somewhat similar. The forehands are completely different.
Yeah all the other footwork is the same.
I’m no ping pong expert, but their footwork seems way more different than tennis.
Also, you do split step in tennis as well.
Correct. Pickleball is so similar to (doubles) tennis that as soon as tennis players learn how to play the NVZ and play against people at the NVZ their rating jumps a whole point. Pickleball singles is like serve and volley singles tennis but is instead return and volley.
Everyone is saying tennis. And now I kinda wanna see it.
Augie Ge is the only competitive pong player (Brown University) on tour that I know of. But he also played tennis.
I know Ben And Collin grew up playing ping pong together as well.
Would be cool if they had a demonstration with 2 tennis players, 2 pong pong, 2 badminton, 2 squash, 2 padel, and 2 racquetball players in a round robin.
I met Daniel at a pickleball tournament I. 2020 when he was still playing both sports. He was ranked one or two in racquetball at the time. I think the issue is that in pickleball your doubles partner matters greatly and you can target someone’s partner and neutralize them. I am surprised he has not played singles as his quickness from racquetball could be helpful there although tennis singles seems to translate better to pickleball singles.
Fyi Quang duong, top10 singles in pb is on viet Olympic table tennis team and also plays tennis , I think table tennis translates easily to pb and helped me pick pb up fast
Yea, I think at the highest pro levels the athleticism is closer than what the tennis players are claiming, especially for ping pong and badminton. Especially since in pb there isn't the potential for a grinding single 4 hour match
I agree and I'm similar to quang duong in that I'm like better at pb and table tennis than tennis, quang isn't too good at tennis relatively, I've been tt player since 7years pld and tennis player since 17 and I can say that tt is more similar in the hitting action bc the long lever action in tennis is different than pb/tt
Collin aspired to be pro. Ben was his hitting partner, but I don't think he was ever that serious about. Ben stopped playing competitive tennis in middle school.
Why would there be a bias, I think it’s cause people refer to pickleball is a “crossover between ping pong and tennis.” Y’all pickleball players are so arrogant and pretentious
I’m sure you could come up with a reason, but it comes down to you play standing on the court instead of around a table. All of the mechanics carry over.
The idea of standing across the kitchen from a pro tt player honestly scares me a lot more than if it was a tennis player. It's just a matter of whether they can get there.
Tennis for sure.
I’ve played tennis at a decently high level and I started pickleball with someone who was a top 10 table tennis junior and it wasn’t close.
If anything his Table tennis pedigree is far better than my tennis one.
The tennis players win just on athleticism and mobility. But that’s only at the beginning. I honestly believe that table tennis tennis players have just as high of a ceiling, even though they have a lower floor.
Table tennis players have tremendously faster hand speed than in tennis. So once it gets to neutral, the table tennis players actually have the advantage.
But when players first start playing, the game is won and lost in transition, and that’s where the tennis players have the advantage.
This, except I would say the tt player might actually have a higher ceiling. At the highest level it really comes down to hands. The best men's team right now is probably JW and Dylan. It's just hand speed for days. And Dylan didn't play tennis.
Probably the tennis players, they have to play a quarter size down and will be swinging that ball like their life depends on it and for the most part they could go in too, table tennis players have 0 baseline experience so right off the bat they’re gonna struggle receiving serves, all they can hope for are the tennis players to keep over shooting. The only chance the table tennis players might have a chance is if somehow they have good volleying/hands at the kitchen line, but I feel like by the time they even get a chance to approach it’s already going to be over most of the time
As a TT player who sucks at tennis, I will say TT players will have an advantage when it comes to funky spins and quick volleys. Sure, it takes more footwork to hit a tennis forehand, but don’t sleep on a TT players reaction speed especially when you’re cooking in the kitchen or responding to a smash
Table Tennis players would have the advance in firefights at the kitchen IF there is footwork involved. If they have to move their feet then the advantage goes back to tennis.
Tennis because they can just smash drives at the ping pong guys.
Ping pong does translate well for spin and the game at the kitchen, but you have to learn how to force the kitchen game to stop the zombie tennis smashers....they won't have that skill right away.
Neither played before? Tennis. Stroke mechanics will yield groundstrokes that will overwhelm the TT guys. Once the TT guys learn strategies to consistently get to the net it will become a battle.
In the short term, the tennis players because they will hit hard line drives low and fast over the net as the table tennis players “calibrate” their moves. But over the longer term, the table tennis players because they have more control over the spin and direction of the ball.
I play a ton of both - table tennis doesn’t really translate to pickleball much. Tennis translates pretty directly, obviously.
Table tennis gives you good hand speed but the mechanics are way different. I don’t think generally table tennis will *hurt* your game but if it’s your only racquet sport experience it can make learning the mechanics of a full body swing/footwork a little more difficult. It’s so spin-centric it’s just a lot different way of shaping the ball vs a pickleball. it I know a guy who is a much better table tennis player than me with no tennis experience and he goes for a lot of shots in pickleball that you just can’t pull off spin-wise.
Both tennis and table tennis players are going to have plenty fast enough hand speed for pickleball though. A firefight at the net is still going to require slower reaction time than ping pong smashes or tennis volleys/returning serves (past a certain level of course).
It depends on how quick either figure out the bounce and distance to stand from the ball. I was a collegiate tennis player for a D1 school and pickleball has come easy BUT the first time playing, I whiffed the ball so many times expecting it to bounce more or come faster. If it is truly the first time playing, start the game and no practice, it would be a sight to see for both. We forget truly what it was like the first time playing pickleball. But yea, once you figure out the ball and paddles, tennis players will improve much quicker
I played high level table tennis ( my rating was 2000 ish), and also I am 4.0 in tennis. I am a much better table tennis player as I started way earlier in life with TT.
I now started playing pickleball as table tennis gave me a bad knee and tennis gave me tennis elbow and my arm hurts a lot after playing tennis.
Tennis players make an easier transition to pickleball because you are still hitting balls off the ground. Technically, table tennis is a significantly more challenging game. Physically, tennis is a more challenging game.
The amount of spin, precision, movement, speed needed in TT is no comparison to tennis.
Chris Haworth starting winning pro tournaments 5 months after picking up a paddle for the first time and beat Ben Johns about 6 months after that. Guess where he came from
I have played both (but I am really new to PB) - And I'd say table tennis players. They are much more used to hitting the ball close to the net and prioritize quick reaction time and precision. Tennis players focus a lot on running and power - neither are required for PB.
I’m going with table tennis for doubles in a close one! I’ve played against young D1 / international tennis players who were new to PB, and while they have insane athleticism and racquet skills, the incorrect strategy of how to win/where to be allows non-athletes (like me) to hang with them and even win. I think the table tennis folks would have a better immediate grasp on the correct plays to make. They are also insanely athletic, if we’re talking about the top levels.
The only thing I could even reasonably give the table tennis players an advantage over tennis players would be hand battles… even then it’s not guaranteed easy
I mean, at the net, pro table tennis players win by a mile though. They should have much better hands and short, strong swings/flicks. Idk why everyone thinks it's a landslide win for tennis players. Pro table tennis players have crazy reaction speed and accuracy.
Because you have to be really good before you even consistently make it to the net.
Also the strategies at the net are really different between ping pong and pickleball.
I would take a top 100 table tennis player over a top 100 tennis player. But if we're talking top 20, then I would take a tennis player.
In most of my rec and open play games, average table tennis players convert faster than average tennis players, but that probably has more to do with the kind of tennis player who wants to switch over.
If you play tennis you should understand how most of their shots, strats, and footwork translate much better than other racket sports (forehand, backhand, volley, slice, overhead, etc). Table tennis reflex may be better but shots are not.
There is a reason the top of pickleball is dominated by EX pro, college tennis players, or even just some tennis background. You cannot deny it.
I mean, the top of pickleball is full of tennis players because they weren't good enough to play tennis professionally. It is expensive to play tennis, but not table tennis. That's neither here nor there.
But the game of pickleball is won at the net, where table tennis players are stronger. The strengths of a tennis background come through at the baseline.
Most people don't have a mid or higher table tennis background, because the shots, strategies, and footwork all need to be elite even to play against children overseas, let alone professionals.
Disagree and could argue all day against this but neither of us are changing our minds. You believe what you want and I'll believe what a large majority of others believe just from looking through other post.
Table Tennis. Second is badminton. Table tennis + Badminton is the deadly combination. And it’s not even close. Give it 4 years and I guarantee that Asian players will eat you with their spin , placement, reflexes, and court coverage.
Tennis players only have court coverage, passing shots, and power.. Those won’t get you much in the long run.
I’ve seen both conversion players and the tennis players do way better much quicker. In fact, hockey converts play better than ping pong conversion players.
Tennis players win 4 games to 2.
Tennis players now have less movements to make and the table tennis players have more court to cover and they have to figure out how to play with a partner.
Tennis players. Easily. Athleticism and shot selection is more similar and is a massive advantage.
I don’t even see how this is a question. Literally 20/20 top pb pros in every division were ex tennis players. I’m not seeing table tennis ex pros transitioning to pb crushers
Thats also just geographic. Top TT players are all east Asian and PB is a non-factor there.
That’s not the reason Top TT players aren’t on the pb tour. Tennis probably has 10x more running, 10x more difficult. It’s probably the racket sport that has the heaviest racket so anything else is super easy to wield, tennis as a racket sport requires the most skill/athleticism/strength so everything else is easy. My mom and grandma play pb thxgiving and Christmas. On the tennis court they can’t even swing a racket because it’s too heavy, their wrist/arm and body aren’t strong enough. If you hit it with spin or pace or served a ball no way they could hold a racket steady. Tennis players are playing on court 4x smaller with a racket this is 4x less swingweight, it’s like the staples Easy mode for them. Guys like Johns, Johnson Bros, Stakestrud (sp), Alshon couldn’t even make it as pro players, they maybe got a 1000th tennis ranking but are all top 10 PB players. ALW was maybe a decent junior tennis player but it’s not like she was even good to win Easter Bowl, Orange Bowl, Kalamazoo, junior US Open, and she wrecks everyone.
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It actually is 10x. Some of my relatives played college TT in Europe many years ago and play club TT now. I used to play them before it was rally scoring, rally scoring I can get a few points here there and I can be competitive in rallies. When we play tennis if I hit a hard serve, they can’t even swing the racket or a kick serve, they can’t even get to drop shots, or hit overheads. They look like a fish out of water playing tennis, their wrist isn’t strong enough for tennis, their movement is great for TT but they can’t cover the tennis court. We’ve played great table table tennis players in college and yes it’s still a massacre but we could stay in rallies, get drop shots and sometimes we blast winners. No table tennis player ever came close in a tennis match. They literally couldn’t even return serve and their dink serves literally get crushed like it’s a feed if they even got it in. This applies to badminton also, relatives that played decent badminton and club badminton in college and my 1st time out playing badminton in 10+ years as a tennis player they couldn’t beat me. When we play tennis if I don’t hit it back to them with no spin they can’t swing a racket, they hit probably 500,000 overheads in badminton but they literally can’t an overhead in or cover it correctly, or if I hit a topspin lob or one with depth there’s no chance. The speed of badminton is fast but the birdie has no weight so even tennis players can handle the fastest badminton players shot. If I hit a hard topspin shot or serve they can’t even hold on to the racket mostly likely they don’t even make contact or if they do it twists in their hand. If you’re a 4.5+ tennis player take any equivalent ping pong/badminton player play their sport and then reverse and have them play tennis, you’ll see the results for yourself (unless the ping pong/badminton player has a decent tennis background like Ben John’s).
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So explain why the pro tennis players who have come over to the PB pro tour aren’t dominating? Jack Sock is fun to watch, but has underwhelmed so far. Genie Bouchard is just bad. Sam Querrey is just bad. Tennis players dominate rec courts because the game is unrefined and can be won in transition, and is also often lost in transition, due to unforced errors. But in pro, if the tennis player doesn’t win the point in transition, and ends up in neutral, they are at a disadvantage to the “failed tennis players”. Because it’s a different game. The tennis skills aren’t useful at the kitchen. And the game is won and lost at the kitchen line, you’re not going to blow people away with groundstrokes from the baseline or from transition at the pro level.
It isn't like their aren't tennis skills that transfer over to playing at the kitchen line. I'd argue that Jack Sock just isn't the guy to showcase them at an elite level. Outside of having an absolutely ridiculous forehand, there was nothing remarkable about his game at the pro level. Genie Bouchard was washed up in tennis for quite some time, never really lived up to the hype in the first place, and never really had a transition or net game to speak of. Sam Querry is also past his prime. Despite being pretty tall (which might be more of a hindrance in pickleball) he played a predominantly baseline game. I'd love to see someone like Mike and Bob Bryan play pickleball. They are "old" for pro sports as well now, but I'm sure they would absolutely wreck some people
No offense, but to me I see a lot of excuses and goalpost moving here. Sock was no. 2 in the world in doubles and no. 8 in singles. Bouchard made a Wimbledon final didn’t she? At that level, they should have enough advantage if tennis inherently has that much advantage. Tennis ultimately doesn’t translate as well as people think to doubles pickleball, because in tennis you don’t purposefully hit the shot soft. Tennis translates immediately to singles, and to lower level doubles. But high level doubles is a different game.
I'm not one of the people saying any tennis player could switch and straight up dominate pickleball. You're not entirely wrong, that's why I pointed out the distinct lack of anything resembling a net game from all of these players. If you think there is no place for touch in tennis, then you don't know tennis as well as you think. It's not exactly a touch drill, but go to YouTube and search Bryan brothers Romanian volley drill (maybe RVD), and tell me they couldn't have dominated at the kitchen line. Edit - my personal experience as someone who was admittedly a better doubles player than singles player for a variety of reasons... I've had people identify me immediately as a tennis player on the pickleball court when they first play me, only to be surprised when I out dink them, play crafty angles, and generally use touch and placement along with the big topspin forehand and backhand drives.
Actually... if you read the question carefully, it says that neither side has ever played pickleball before. Geography itself is a non-factor.
Ben did both, and based on his read of the game, I’d argue that table tennis has been more influential for his dominance.
While true in the long run, this match would be between 4 completely cold players. And I'd give the advantage to tennis players. Table tennis might help you fine tune your game, but the on-court experience will benefit tennis players more.
Yep. Table tennis background could turn a 4.5 into a 5.0, but tennis can turn a beginner into a 4.5. I do think tennis players tend to hit a wall where they quickly progress to the point where they start losing hands battles. Hand reaction time is the biggest limiter on upside.
Both Collin and John says tennis translates more. But he did get his backhand roll and flick from table tennis.
Most tennis players can rock ping pong. It was our night game when traveling with other juniors for tournaments and we also all had tables.
Its not just semantics, Table Tennis is not Ping Pong. Olympic style table tennis is its own game and while I have known tennis players that play good table tennis they don't have the form or the style of play that would be conducive to playing high level table tennis.
Which is also why ping pong doesn’t translate as well to pickleball. The part that does, basement table tennis players use.
Totally agree but I will say that my best friend (who has always been a great table tennis player) picked up a nasty slice and backspin in the first game he ever played. Of course tennis players could do the same, but it’s impressive to see a table tennis player transition the skills instantly.
Almost, but not quite. Dylan Frasier didn't play tennis competitively.
That’s not true lol. The best PB player in the world came from TT, not tennis.
Ben johns is a better tennis player than a table tennis player. 1900 is good but clearly hes a d1 level tennis player.
The 1 of best PB became the best because he had extensive tennis AND TT background. If he only had extensive TT he wouldn’t be the best. While the other top 20/20 in men’s, women’s, mixed, probably 5.0, 4.5, 4.0 division all had extensive tennis background. Hmmm what’s the commonality? And when I say 20/20 it probably is top 50/50 but I don’t want to looking at rankings and looking at their ITF or college record. It might be 49/50 but the point still stands.
ALW was a soccer player more than anything. Sure she probably played tennis, but she could’ve done really well in soccer. Idk why you’re arguing that tennis helps, we all know it does, but all racquet/paddle sports help with the transition to pb lol. That’s like arguing that the sky is blue
Actually his biggest sport was baseball pitching. I think the precision and consistent mechanics shows.
Plus I think the table tennis players would have that pickleball coming past them at about 1000mph from pro tennis players.
I think a better match would be 2 tennis players vs 2 racquetball or 2 squash players.
Racquetball swing mechanics are significantly different than from pickleball. Tennis the closest sport.
Yes but what old man mtn is getting at is that a better comparison to make would be those two athletes vs any other athlete and a tennis player.
I disagree with that though. Racquetball and squash don't translate that well. Neither features topspin, and pickleball is a top spin game. Table tennis does have topspin, though the technique is more useful for rollers at the kitchen than baseline drives.
I would agree, but tennis translates so much better. It’s comparing two off sport athletes that are still racquet sports
Yeah racquetball is all wrist baby whereas pickleball is rarely any, the weight/feel to it all with have racquetball players just launching it into the net or fence if they try to swing at it
I'm curious, why?
Any racket sport background will have a lot of benefits coming into pickleball. I come from squash. Racquetball. And Padel. Just the athleticism and footwork you bring are very helpful. Shot selection. Power. Grip shifting. Etc. all are very helpful coming to pickleball.
In my experience, racquetball players hit with the paddle face open, causing the ball to travel in an upward trajectory. I would say that of all the racket sports, racquetball has the least transferrable skills.
They handle power hit at them well, but that's about it. They can look impressive against 3.0s with hard, flat shots, but they are pretty much starting from scratch with mechanics.
I'm pretty good at table tennis and played racquetball for 10 years before converting to pickleball. I don't think table tennis is particularly useful for pickleball. I guess it would help for reflexes, but you already get plenty of that from racquetball. How racquetball helps you in pickleball > power > quickness > understanding court positioning > tournament experience > footwork racquetball doesn't help you with > hitting topspin or slice > correct swing mechanics for pickleball, basically had to relearn a lot of it > two handed backhand I had to learn drop shots from scratch. Drives were powerful but went out of bounds a lot till I mastered topspin. Hand speed was pretty good from day 1. Serving was pretty easy to pickup. Overheads were easy.
I found that the racquetball backhand defensive lob stroke delivers a great slice stroke for pickleball. Actually, the backhand stroke, generally, feels somewhat similar. The forehands are completely different.
Tennis players because footwork.
Kitchen line footwork is slightly different. In tennis you are stepping forward on volleys. I had to learn how to drop step for pickle ball.
I don't think 4 people that have never played pickleball before are gonna be playing a robust kitchen game
It’s definitely not intuitive.
Yeah all the other footwork is the same. I’m no ping pong expert, but their footwork seems way more different than tennis. Also, you do split step in tennis as well.
Correct. Pickleball is so similar to (doubles) tennis that as soon as tennis players learn how to play the NVZ and play against people at the NVZ their rating jumps a whole point. Pickleball singles is like serve and volley singles tennis but is instead return and volley.
Everyone is saying tennis. And now I kinda wanna see it. Augie Ge is the only competitive pong player (Brown University) on tour that I know of. But he also played tennis. I know Ben And Collin grew up playing ping pong together as well. Would be cool if they had a demonstration with 2 tennis players, 2 pong pong, 2 badminton, 2 squash, 2 padel, and 2 racquetball players in a round robin.
de la Rosa is a racquetball champion.
Yep, but we don't know if he never played before going pro. Could be a Jack Sock situation where he was hooked well still playing pro tennis.
I met Daniel at a pickleball tournament I. 2020 when he was still playing both sports. He was ranked one or two in racquetball at the time. I think the issue is that in pickleball your doubles partner matters greatly and you can target someone’s partner and neutralize them. I am surprised he has not played singles as his quickness from racquetball could be helpful there although tennis singles seems to translate better to pickleball singles.
Fyi Quang duong, top10 singles in pb is on viet Olympic table tennis team and also plays tennis , I think table tennis translates easily to pb and helped me pick pb up fast
Yea, I think at the highest pro levels the athleticism is closer than what the tennis players are claiming, especially for ping pong and badminton. Especially since in pb there isn't the potential for a grinding single 4 hour match
I agree and I'm similar to quang duong in that I'm like better at pb and table tennis than tennis, quang isn't too good at tennis relatively, I've been tt player since 7years pld and tennis player since 17 and I can say that tt is more similar in the hitting action bc the long lever action in tennis is different than pb/tt
Ben and Collin played ping pong AND tennis. No doubt the tennis skills is what gave them their footwork.
Yea, Collin was actually pro tennis. Idk if Ben ever played pro. I thought that was all common knowledge. Edit: Colin was an aspiring pro
Collin aspired to be pro. Ben was his hitting partner, but I don't think he was ever that serious about. Ben stopped playing competitive tennis in middle school.
Cool, I must have misremembered the Colin story.
I’d assume tennis 10/10
It’s tennis and it’s not even close. I’m guessing there is a bias if you’re even asking this.
Why would there be a bias, I think it’s cause people refer to pickleball is a “crossover between ping pong and tennis.” Y’all pickleball players are so arrogant and pretentious
I’m sure you could come up with a reason, but it comes down to you play standing on the court instead of around a table. All of the mechanics carry over.
The idea of standing across the kitchen from a pro tt player honestly scares me a lot more than if it was a tennis player. It's just a matter of whether they can get there.
Tennis on a landslide
Having played both at a high level, tennis and its not even close.
Tennis no question.
Tennis for sure. I’ve played tennis at a decently high level and I started pickleball with someone who was a top 10 table tennis junior and it wasn’t close. If anything his Table tennis pedigree is far better than my tennis one.
The tennis players win just on athleticism and mobility. But that’s only at the beginning. I honestly believe that table tennis tennis players have just as high of a ceiling, even though they have a lower floor. Table tennis players have tremendously faster hand speed than in tennis. So once it gets to neutral, the table tennis players actually have the advantage. But when players first start playing, the game is won and lost in transition, and that’s where the tennis players have the advantage.
This, except I would say the tt player might actually have a higher ceiling. At the highest level it really comes down to hands. The best men's team right now is probably JW and Dylan. It's just hand speed for days. And Dylan didn't play tennis.
Probably the tennis players, they have to play a quarter size down and will be swinging that ball like their life depends on it and for the most part they could go in too, table tennis players have 0 baseline experience so right off the bat they’re gonna struggle receiving serves, all they can hope for are the tennis players to keep over shooting. The only chance the table tennis players might have a chance is if somehow they have good volleying/hands at the kitchen line, but I feel like by the time they even get a chance to approach it’s already going to be over most of the time
you can’t volley in table tennis so it’s highly unlikely. i still have a hard time even remembering that volleying is allowed
Tennis players, the ping pong players think the court is a table and play with that assumption. They don’t hit backcourt strokes well.
All I know is everyone sleeps on the badminton guys. Insane wrist action and weird angles all day. They are tough.
Tennis. Pickleball is a lot of footwork stuff at the highest level
As a TT player who sucks at tennis, I will say TT players will have an advantage when it comes to funky spins and quick volleys. Sure, it takes more footwork to hit a tennis forehand, but don’t sleep on a TT players reaction speed especially when you’re cooking in the kitchen or responding to a smash
Table Tennis players would have the advance in firefights at the kitchen IF there is footwork involved. If they have to move their feet then the advantage goes back to tennis.
Tennis because they can just smash drives at the ping pong guys. Ping pong does translate well for spin and the game at the kitchen, but you have to learn how to force the kitchen game to stop the zombie tennis smashers....they won't have that skill right away.
Neither played before? Tennis. Stroke mechanics will yield groundstrokes that will overwhelm the TT guys. Once the TT guys learn strategies to consistently get to the net it will become a battle.
Tennis
Tennis because of the footwork and court to cover.
In the short term, the tennis players because they will hit hard line drives low and fast over the net as the table tennis players “calibrate” their moves. But over the longer term, the table tennis players because they have more control over the spin and direction of the ball.
Tennis for sure, they have the moves and power.
I play a ton of both - table tennis doesn’t really translate to pickleball much. Tennis translates pretty directly, obviously. Table tennis gives you good hand speed but the mechanics are way different. I don’t think generally table tennis will *hurt* your game but if it’s your only racquet sport experience it can make learning the mechanics of a full body swing/footwork a little more difficult. It’s so spin-centric it’s just a lot different way of shaping the ball vs a pickleball. it I know a guy who is a much better table tennis player than me with no tennis experience and he goes for a lot of shots in pickleball that you just can’t pull off spin-wise. Both tennis and table tennis players are going to have plenty fast enough hand speed for pickleball though. A firefight at the net is still going to require slower reaction time than ping pong smashes or tennis volleys/returning serves (past a certain level of course).
It depends on how quick either figure out the bounce and distance to stand from the ball. I was a collegiate tennis player for a D1 school and pickleball has come easy BUT the first time playing, I whiffed the ball so many times expecting it to bounce more or come faster. If it is truly the first time playing, start the game and no practice, it would be a sight to see for both. We forget truly what it was like the first time playing pickleball. But yea, once you figure out the ball and paddles, tennis players will improve much quicker
I played high level table tennis ( my rating was 2000 ish), and also I am 4.0 in tennis. I am a much better table tennis player as I started way earlier in life with TT. I now started playing pickleball as table tennis gave me a bad knee and tennis gave me tennis elbow and my arm hurts a lot after playing tennis. Tennis players make an easier transition to pickleball because you are still hitting balls off the ground. Technically, table tennis is a significantly more challenging game. Physically, tennis is a more challenging game. The amount of spin, precision, movement, speed needed in TT is no comparison to tennis.
Chris Haworth starting winning pro tournaments 5 months after picking up a paddle for the first time and beat Ben Johns about 6 months after that. Guess where he came from
I have played both (but I am really new to PB) - And I'd say table tennis players. They are much more used to hitting the ball close to the net and prioritize quick reaction time and precision. Tennis players focus a lot on running and power - neither are required for PB.
I’m going with table tennis for doubles in a close one! I’ve played against young D1 / international tennis players who were new to PB, and while they have insane athleticism and racquet skills, the incorrect strategy of how to win/where to be allows non-athletes (like me) to hang with them and even win. I think the table tennis folks would have a better immediate grasp on the correct plays to make. They are also insanely athletic, if we’re talking about the top levels.
tennis but mostly because spin is the game in table tennis and it does not translate well the first couple of times playing pickleball
My money is on TT players.
I wanna see it now.
Lol
The only thing I could even reasonably give the table tennis players an advantage over tennis players would be hand battles… even then it’s not guaranteed easy
Tennis. Handedly
Tennis. The match is free.
Certainly not the viewers...
Tennis players all day long - not even close!PB much more like tennis than table tennis.
I mean, at the net, pro table tennis players win by a mile though. They should have much better hands and short, strong swings/flicks. Idk why everyone thinks it's a landslide win for tennis players. Pro table tennis players have crazy reaction speed and accuracy.
Because you have to be really good before you even consistently make it to the net. Also the strategies at the net are really different between ping pong and pickleball.
I would take a top 100 table tennis player over a top 100 tennis player. But if we're talking top 20, then I would take a tennis player. In most of my rec and open play games, average table tennis players convert faster than average tennis players, but that probably has more to do with the kind of tennis player who wants to switch over.
If you play tennis you should understand how most of their shots, strats, and footwork translate much better than other racket sports (forehand, backhand, volley, slice, overhead, etc). Table tennis reflex may be better but shots are not. There is a reason the top of pickleball is dominated by EX pro, college tennis players, or even just some tennis background. You cannot deny it.
I mean, the top of pickleball is full of tennis players because they weren't good enough to play tennis professionally. It is expensive to play tennis, but not table tennis. That's neither here nor there. But the game of pickleball is won at the net, where table tennis players are stronger. The strengths of a tennis background come through at the baseline. Most people don't have a mid or higher table tennis background, because the shots, strategies, and footwork all need to be elite even to play against children overseas, let alone professionals.
Disagree and could argue all day against this but neither of us are changing our minds. You believe what you want and I'll believe what a large majority of others believe just from looking through other post.
Tennis players definitely…..what about Pro Tennis Players vs Pro Pickleball players who have never played table tennis?
Table Tennis. Second is badminton. Table tennis + Badminton is the deadly combination. And it’s not even close. Give it 4 years and I guarantee that Asian players will eat you with their spin , placement, reflexes, and court coverage. Tennis players only have court coverage, passing shots, and power.. Those won’t get you much in the long run.
Oh yeah, hadn’t thought of badminton. That’d be another interesting one to throw in the mix.
I met a gal that played competitive badminton, she killed all of us! It was insane!
Tennis players. Easily. Like 11-0 11-0.
Tennis players all day
I’ve seen both conversion players and the tennis players do way better much quicker. In fact, hockey converts play better than ping pong conversion players.
Tennis players win 4 games to 2. Tennis players now have less movements to make and the table tennis players have more court to cover and they have to figure out how to play with a partner.
Doubles table tennis is really wild teamwork bc you alternate shots.