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Yep this is absolutely true. I personally know many dem voters among my family and friends who have almost entirely centrist or conservative views/values but just can't stand Republican politcians, and/or fall for the "voting R means racist" meme.
I'll paraphrase what my dad told me: this constitution would have enforced social programs that Chile can't afford, resulting in debt and those programs being extremely crappy.
Not onlt many chileans, but the indegenous population itself is opposed to that. They want to be included. The "reject" option won by like 70% to 75% in districts with a majority of indigenous population.
Thats the problem I have with the lefties. They just want everything to be started right now instead of having plans to make the ideals feasible in the first place. They think money is the only thing preventing us from achieving their ideals.
Actually, the easiest and best solution to world hunger is to stop helping. Those poor countries we ship HFCS to will never be self sustaining if we keep giving them foreign made food that is 1/10 the cost of domestically produced products. But hey it's actually really good for keeping a country in your pocket.
Basically, foreign aid, since it's free, destroys local business. Charities and governments will give a country massive amounts of free food. This food then gets sold in stores for like 10% the cost of local food. The local farmers go out of business since they can't compete with free.
https://cei.org/blog/foreign-aid-kills/
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/world/americas/14iht-food.4.7116855.html
I also remembered that someone tried to set up experimental villages with independent findings trying to tackle all the issues (lacking infrastructure, technology, education, hospitals etc.) only to find out that the local hate growing corns and there’s no nearby market to sell their products.
California enters chat
We’ve banned sale of new gasoline vehicles by 2035, but for the past 23 years we can’t even support the electric grids we have now. And right now, we are having flex alerts, and EV owners are being told not to charge their vehicles. ‘Tis a silly place.
What, did you [expect Californians to read the bills they voted for?](https://edsource.org/updates/california-has-the-lowest-literacy-rate-of-any-state-data-suggests)
[Perhaps a more universal language of the California experience then.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/californias-biggest-cities-confront-a-defecation-crisis-11565994160)
>They think money is the only thing preventing us from achieving their ideals.
I mean in many ways that's true; if we had the kind of economy to power an ideal society, there wouldn't be much point in opposing what the left wants.
However reality is a fickle cunt, and the reality of the situation is that we don't have that kind of economy to give everyone a pony, so to speak. I don't disagree with the left that things could be better, and I absolutely agree that if our governments stopped spending tax dollars on corrupt, stupid bullshit and war posturing, we'd be in a much better place. As I said in another comment to a left quad poster insisting on the necessity of taxes; if the government spent it on streetlights and sewers instead of [exporting my taxes to Ghana to buy signs asking people not to shit on the beach](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/diplomats-fretted-about-canadian-funding-for-ghana-outdoor-defecation-campaign-1.4035191?cache=gdyzofsh) I'd be less critical.
Smaller government, with a domestic focus, spending minimal taxes on keeping the lights on and the roads paved? Sure. If it has a tangible benefit for myself and other tax payers, I'm actually okay with it. Stupid, enormous bureaucratic globalist entity government [spending literal billions of tax payer dollars to fund feminism in developing countries](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/06/09/trudeaus-new-feminist-plan-commits-95-of-foreign-aid-to-gender-women-and-girls-by-2022.html) [while Canadians starve and beg for assisted suicide because they can't pay rent?](https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-disabilities-nears-medically-assisted-death-after-futile-bid-for-affordable-housing-1.5882202) Nah, go to hell and fuck your taxes.
> of exporting my taxes to Ghana to buy signs asking people not to shit on the beach
Cope and seethe Cuckistani
💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️
To play devil's advocate, that's exactly communists' argument against democratic communism - there's too big of a chance for a reversal every time a new govt is elected
>They just want everything to be started right now instead of having plans to make the ideals feasible in the first place.
China is the only socialist country that gets it. They knew they couldn't afford shit and turned to capitalism to save themselves. Now they're building up resources and industry and slowly nationalizing it over time.
Western leftists are so fucking cooked though that they see this and call them fascists b/c capitalism lmao. Like no buddy, that's what a long-term plan looks like. Even USSR had a series of 5 year plans to sort thier shit out and make incremental changes.
I wouldn’t say that’s a fair representation of China if I’m honest. They knew it wasn’t working before Mao died, then pretty much took till deng turned up anyone had the balls to do something so large is the S.E.Rs, which would have been literally deadly if it didn’t work out as well as it did. But it did and since then it’s just been hover as much money as you can, no specific plan to it nor socialist ideals, just authoritarianism and rampant corruption. Can see this lack of planning through the relationship with the central government and local governments and the necessity of turning to real estate for funding and so on and so on. Point being China hasn’t had a long term plan… I’m pretty sure since the beginning (don’t dare bring up the navy). It’s a comedy of errors that is a miracle that still persists at this point.
>But it did and since then it’s just been hover as much money as you can, no specific plan to it nor socialist ideals
State-owned enterprises accounted for over 60% of China's market capitalization in 2019 and generated 40% of China's GDP. They are slowly but surely socializing their economy.
>just authoritarianism and rampant corruption.
For some reason westerners seem to think dictatorship of the proletariate means democracy. In truth that is an entirely western invention. The dictatorship of the proletariate has always meant a literal dictatorship
> The dictatorship of the proletariat is the intermediate stage between a capitalist economy and a communist economy, whereby the post-revolutionary state seizes the means of production, compels the implementation of direct elections on behalf of and within the confines of the ruling proletarian state party, and instituting elected delegates into representative workers' councils that nationalise ownership of the means of production from private to collective ownership...
> During this phase, the administrative organizational structure of the party is to be largely determined by the need for it to govern firmly and wield state power to prevent counterrevolution and to facilitate the transition to a lasting communist society.
-- [Dictatorship of the Proletariate ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat#:~:text=The%20dictatorship%20of%20the%20proletariat%20is%20the%20intermediate%20stage%20between,ruling%20proletarian%20state%20party%2C%20and)
This is what "real" socialism looks like. What you mistake for corruption is actually a vast difference in prioritization. It's completely alien to people from western liberal democracies.
> Can see this lack of planning through the relationship with the central government and local governments and the necessity of turning to real estate for funding
The Chinese government owns the majority of real estate. It's the private sector that's suffering. I'll admit this is a little tin foil hat of me but I believe that to be very intentional and part of the consolidation. It's all very complicated to get into in a reddit comment but china's economy is administratively driven rather than market driven. Large swaths of investments fail or rise at the same time by design.
Look at Germany. They think they can just print money to generate energy or make molecules. Reality doesn't work that way. The Green revolution will kill Germany's economy...maybe that was the goal.
It’s not like most of these leftist policies are proven to work in certain countries. /s
In the US and similar countries they just don’t get to be fully and strongly implemented with care, because they always get shot down. You can’t just do some part of systems like the Dutch, German or Scandinavian system, without implementing it whole, or atleast mostly whole. The US political system is just way to inefficient for any major wing in direction atm.
This constitution for example could have worked, but it was shot down before we could find out. Granted this constitutional could definitely use some more time to actually iron out the details, seeing that it’s been made in such a short time.
Most Chileans did vote for this left leaning party to create a new more fair and progressive constitution. Don’t forget that.
The Latin American Problem:
Vote left who simp for Cuba and Venezuela leaning politicians who implement shitty social programs that eventually promote lazy bastards
Vote right wing politicians who simp for the US or past dictatorships and keep the status quo
The end product was extremely woke, to put it shortly. The left was over represented in this process and decided to impose their views. It backfired. Approval dropped from 78% to 38%, almost 1 million voters who voted in favor last time now rejected the draft.
It is crazy how approval/disproval varies based on the implementation of an Ideal. Like damn near 80% agreed on the idea, but it gets cut in half when you start trying to figure out how to make the sausage.
This is why, Polls say 80% of people want XYZ are generally meaningless.
Take abortion the polling is always about who is pro-life vs pro-choice. But the words are fuzzy What is Pro-life to one person could be viewed as Pro-choice to another. If you live in NYC thinking the ability to receive abortion procedure stops at week 12 could make you pro-life, that same thought could make you pro-choice in Texas.
I'm Spanish. I like feminism. I like equality, men and women having the same opportunities, not being judged because of their gender, humans, in general, being able to live with similar standards is a based as fuck ideal to me.
Now, *before even starting to number the articles* the text makes a point to refer to both genders (in Spanish, male is used for neutral) and puts women before men which makes me feel queasy. But then article 6 comes and hits with a:
>2. Todos los órganos colegiados del Estado, los autónomos constitucionales, los superiores y directivos de la Administración, así como los directorios de las empresas públicas y semipúblicas, deberán tener una composición paritaria que asegure que, al menos, el cincuenta por ciento de sus integrantes sean mujeres.
Which roughly translates to every high ranking government position having to be *at least* 50% women. Motherfucker that's some serious supremacist shit. Not only would I not in a million years vote for this I'd probably blacklist in my mind whoever responsible for this.
The very first article defining Chile as "plurinational, intercultural, regional and **ecologist** isn't helping either. Save the planet and all but it's batshit insane to me to write that in the *first fucking article of the goddamned constitution*.
Pero que cojones os pasa por ahi?
It's like people spend their whole lives pushing for something, it becomes their whole identity. So when it comes into balance, all they know is how to push in that direction, so they just keep on doing it. And come up with reasons why they are justified in doing so.
You get a similar result when you ask about universal healthcare. When asked if people want it, a majority says yes. When asked if they are willing to eat the tax increase that goes along with it you suddenly get a lot less people willing to go along with it.
Do you want Universal Healthcare.
Yes obviously ok which one
NHS Style
German Style
Dutch Style
ETC ETC.
The numbers seem to drop and it isn't like you can compromise. You can't go yeah I want 20% Single Provider and 80% Single Payer lol.
Because a lot of people think universal healthcare = rich man pays for it. Once people realize they have to chip in the general healthy distrust of government kicks and and people say fuck that.
That's the whole basis of how anything and everything will get paid for in their minds. It was bizarre hearing Jagmeet Singh and his NDP (the social Democratic party in Canada) back up every proposed social program with "it will be paid for by taxing the super rich." National pharmacare? Tax the super rich. New Green Deal for Canada? Tax the super rich. National Dentacare? Tax the super rich.
It didn't take an economist or policy expert to recognize that any of these policies would inevitably mean higher taxes for the every-Canadian, not just the super rich.
Healthcare is a bad example because every universal healthcare system in the world is still cheaper and has better outcomes than the US…
The US spends more on healthcare per capita than any other country, tax increase would be cheaper than insurance premiums and deductibles.
Edit: downvoting what is literally true… the US has the highest cost of care per capita for some of the worst outcomes among first world countries. Y’all gotta be delusional
I remember seeing something about natives getting the right to veto the laws, also 50% of the Senate being woman and some spots being reserved to natives
Non Chilean: Chile's constitution still is a modified from the pinochet times. Thereofore an esembly was called in to make a new one. Mostly lefties were e
Voted into the esembly. They pushed it to far with welfare stuff and sj stuff. Then the centrists turned aggainst it.
Chilean: this statement is true.
I want to add that the "modifications" were made by the president Ricardo Lagos.
Plus other problems was that the propposed constitution was saying that the state of Chile was [plurinational](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurinationalism), but on an extreme level there was going to be different codes of law and judicicial systems meaning there wasn't going to be equality under law.
And more atributions to the ineficient state, and threatening that individual property isn't granted.
Metioning u/Anon_Monon to make him see this reply.
Desktop version of /u/Mizzter_perro's link:
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I expected the results, polls already demonstrated that almost everyone preferred the old constitution to the new one, seeing the "Rechazó" option win by 65/35 was kind of unexpected, i thought it would be a bit more disputed though
I believe that more than the proposed text being decided with the referendum, the main reason it got regected was because of the poor show the "democratily elected people who wrote it".
For example always with some shit about the current ways of the country, or showing some sort of superiority (only count Dooku can do that). One of the gusta who got elected Even faked being un cáncer treatment. And some of the important things that people wanted to be discussed did not Made ir, for example the iniciative "not with My money" wich was the most voted via an online survey.
Anyway, i think this option won because of the poor executionnpf the process and the lefty people who did not gave a shit about the conservative sector in Chile wich is large.
Oh and i forgot during a performance for the "aprove option", a trans group in a stage on live tv (facebook, Instagram, etc) pull down his pants and he/she removed a chilean flag inserted in his/her ass, it was an outstanding Magic trick
Viva Chile conchutamere
Even some of the policies that I agree with (universal healthcare, for instance) had me like “what? Why does that belong in the constitution? This is an issue that should be left up to voters.”
People very often forget just how solid and rigid a constitution is supposed to be, it's supposed to be a Skeleton, the foundation of your whole legal and political systems, but then there's places like france where every third government wipes their ass with it
I think that's what the Chilean government was planning on though: by enshrining their political agenda into a new constitution, they could totally re-frame that skeleton into whatever they saw fit. If this would have passed, it would have been an ideological coup of their national affairs.
In case anyone wants to read the article
[https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/04/americas/chile-constitution-vote-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/04/americas/chile-constitution-vote-intl/index.html)
>With almost all of the ballots counted, 62% of voters rejected the proposal with 38% voting in favor, according to the Chile Electoral Service.
>
>The proposed constitution, which had the support of leftist President Gabriel Boric, included 388 articles that would have significantly extended social rights, increased environmental regulation and given the government wider responsibility for social welfare programs. It also would have provided full gender parity and added designated seats for indigenous representatives.
>
>In October 2020, more than 78% of Chilean voters approved a plebiscite that proposed constitutional change, and in June 2021, they cast their ballots again to pick the members for a constituent assembly.
some countries/states use their constitution as a comprehensive document that serves as a legal code ([texas's constitution](https://tlc.texas.gov/docs/legref/TxConst.pdf) is 86,936 words, 258 pages, and alabamas is 388,882 words)
Oh noooo, free people used democracy to vote for what they wanted in their country
I am truly seething, it's not like this is what I fight for or anything
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By law women must hold *at least* 50% of government positions.
Abortion rights.
Indigenous people hold certain rights that other citizens don't.
Certain resources such as water were now human rights.
Rights to healthcare, housing, and education were added.
Private property was no longer constitutionally protected and was now subordinated to government protection of the environment. 'Nature' itself has rights and a government agency shall be created to protect them.
Abolishment of the Senate in 2026 with a unicameral legislature from then on.
>By law women must hold at least 50% of government positions.
Dumbest thing I've ever heard.
>Abortion rights
I spoke too soon.
>Rights to healthcare, housing, and education were added.
Commie bastards.
>Private property was no longer constitutionally protected
Okay. I need to read literally nothing other than this. If you'd led with this, I'd have saved some time. Fuck that. It is beneath the dignity of man not to own property. Y'all need some serious Catholic intervention.
There is something we haven't learned so far. Don't be too ambitious and implement shit slowly, unless you are building from scratch.
Otherwise everything will collapse, like the dumpster fire Gorbachev, rest in peace, created.
>I'll be very hostile the next time I don't see the flair.
***
[**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2) ^^|| ^( *beep boop. Reply with good bot if you think I'm doing well :D, bad bot otherwise*)
It had all kinds of weird stuff, including "the right to compete in sports," however the hell that would be implemented or enforced, and saying each indigenous tribe could establish their own courts and law enforcement independent of the federal government (13% of Chile is indigenous).
If they don't want it and vote against it, it's their right to do so, I respect the outcome of this democratic election, unlike the American goverment in '73
Pinochet’s laughing in his grave rn
based
Spinning too. Should be easy with all the piss and shit.
Nah but fr fuck that guy
If Pinochet and Marx were in a room and I had three bullets, I’d shoot Marx three times and throw Pinochet out a helicopter.
Based and fuck-marx pilled
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you didn’t have to be **that** based…but you were, and i respect that
Nah I’d have Pinochet help me throw Marx out the helicopter
"Oi! Mexican! Help me chuck that fat commie out of here will ya?"
And then kick him out of the helicopter
Based and taste-of-your-own-medicine pilled
I understand hatred for Pinochet But Marx didn’t do anything lol he just chilled like a college student, hated capitalism, and wrote about it
His ideas have led to the murder of millions. He deserves all three bullets for being lazy piece of shit with horrible ideas
Ideas don’t kill people :) Also that’s just false anyways
Ah a genocide denier. Gotta love those.
Why’d you get downvoted
He did the world a favor by throwing sacks of shit from helicopters a good communist is one that is cold
Death is a preferable alternative to communism!
I would rather get shot by the nazis right away for being a dissident than being thrown into an island and left to die by the communists so yes
“My authoritarian dictator is better than your authoritarian dictator”
I'm not saying he was "better" I said he did the world a favor by throwing communist off helicopters
Fuck Pinochet. The only good dictator is a **dead** dictator.
Unironic Pinochet fans? Idk
You rang?
¿
Because this sub is [redacted].
That guy is a literal definition of based
Based and under 6 feet of piss and shit pilled.
🚁🚁🚁🚁🚁
You mean to tell me that progressives aren’t the silent majority?
They’re the loud minority.
Very loud.
Annoyingly so
Turns out wide eyed idealism married with superiority complexes are a bad combo. Shocker.
A lot of progressives we're largely against this version of it as it was written with a huge gaping hole that could be exploited.
Depends on the location Europe yea, America probably the registered voter numbers indicate it, South America….no.
Not even 50% of the democratic party is progressive.
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37% of Americans are registered democrats and 20 something are republicans the rest are independent.
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Yep this is absolutely true. I personally know many dem voters among my family and friends who have almost entirely centrist or conservative views/values but just can't stand Republican politcians, and/or fall for the "voting R means racist" meme.
When they ask Americans how they feel by policy, the majority of Americans lean libertarian.
Depends on the country lol
I wonder if any Chileans could provide their insight into this matter.
I'll paraphrase what my dad told me: this constitution would have enforced social programs that Chile can't afford, resulting in debt and those programs being extremely crappy.
Thanks for sharing what you know!
It also gives privileges to native groups, which many chileans are opposed to
Not onlt many chileans, but the indegenous population itself is opposed to that. They want to be included. The "reject" option won by like 70% to 75% in districts with a majority of indigenous population.
> Flair up for more respect :D *** ^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) 11239 / 59053 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Thats the problem I have with the lefties. They just want everything to be started right now instead of having plans to make the ideals feasible in the first place. They think money is the only thing preventing us from achieving their ideals.
Surely dumping another pallet of cash on a dumpster fire will solve world hunger
It’s just like they say, you have to throw money in a hole and light it on fire to make money
I think that was an ancient Chinese proverb, no?
The only ancient Chinese proverb I know is, “Why won’t the Vietnamese let us conquer them?”
I like to call that Green Energy.
Actually, the easiest and best solution to world hunger is to stop helping. Those poor countries we ship HFCS to will never be self sustaining if we keep giving them foreign made food that is 1/10 the cost of domestically produced products. But hey it's actually really good for keeping a country in your pocket.
Do you mind elaborating or point me to a video/article?
Basically, foreign aid, since it's free, destroys local business. Charities and governments will give a country massive amounts of free food. This food then gets sold in stores for like 10% the cost of local food. The local farmers go out of business since they can't compete with free. https://cei.org/blog/foreign-aid-kills/ https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/world/americas/14iht-food.4.7116855.html
I also remembered that someone tried to set up experimental villages with independent findings trying to tackle all the issues (lacking infrastructure, technology, education, hospitals etc.) only to find out that the local hate growing corns and there’s no nearby market to sell their products.
California enters chat We’ve banned sale of new gasoline vehicles by 2035, but for the past 23 years we can’t even support the electric grids we have now. And right now, we are having flex alerts, and EV owners are being told not to charge their vehicles. ‘Tis a silly place.
What, did you [expect Californians to read the bills they voted for?](https://edsource.org/updates/california-has-the-lowest-literacy-rate-of-any-state-data-suggests)
In English. That's the caveat.
[Perhaps a more universal language of the California experience then.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/californias-biggest-cities-confront-a-defecation-crisis-11565994160)
>They think money is the only thing preventing us from achieving their ideals. I mean in many ways that's true; if we had the kind of economy to power an ideal society, there wouldn't be much point in opposing what the left wants. However reality is a fickle cunt, and the reality of the situation is that we don't have that kind of economy to give everyone a pony, so to speak. I don't disagree with the left that things could be better, and I absolutely agree that if our governments stopped spending tax dollars on corrupt, stupid bullshit and war posturing, we'd be in a much better place. As I said in another comment to a left quad poster insisting on the necessity of taxes; if the government spent it on streetlights and sewers instead of [exporting my taxes to Ghana to buy signs asking people not to shit on the beach](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/diplomats-fretted-about-canadian-funding-for-ghana-outdoor-defecation-campaign-1.4035191?cache=gdyzofsh) I'd be less critical. Smaller government, with a domestic focus, spending minimal taxes on keeping the lights on and the roads paved? Sure. If it has a tangible benefit for myself and other tax payers, I'm actually okay with it. Stupid, enormous bureaucratic globalist entity government [spending literal billions of tax payer dollars to fund feminism in developing countries](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/06/09/trudeaus-new-feminist-plan-commits-95-of-foreign-aid-to-gender-women-and-girls-by-2022.html) [while Canadians starve and beg for assisted suicide because they can't pay rent?](https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-disabilities-nears-medically-assisted-death-after-futile-bid-for-affordable-housing-1.5882202) Nah, go to hell and fuck your taxes.
> of exporting my taxes to Ghana to buy signs asking people not to shit on the beach Cope and seethe Cuckistani 💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️💪🏿🇬🇭🍑💩⛱️
Ghana with the BBC (Big Beach Crap).
Based and stop wasting our fucking taxes pilled.
To play devil's advocate, that's exactly communists' argument against democratic communism - there's too big of a chance for a reversal every time a new govt is elected
>They just want everything to be started right now instead of having plans to make the ideals feasible in the first place. China is the only socialist country that gets it. They knew they couldn't afford shit and turned to capitalism to save themselves. Now they're building up resources and industry and slowly nationalizing it over time. Western leftists are so fucking cooked though that they see this and call them fascists b/c capitalism lmao. Like no buddy, that's what a long-term plan looks like. Even USSR had a series of 5 year plans to sort thier shit out and make incremental changes.
I wouldn’t say that’s a fair representation of China if I’m honest. They knew it wasn’t working before Mao died, then pretty much took till deng turned up anyone had the balls to do something so large is the S.E.Rs, which would have been literally deadly if it didn’t work out as well as it did. But it did and since then it’s just been hover as much money as you can, no specific plan to it nor socialist ideals, just authoritarianism and rampant corruption. Can see this lack of planning through the relationship with the central government and local governments and the necessity of turning to real estate for funding and so on and so on. Point being China hasn’t had a long term plan… I’m pretty sure since the beginning (don’t dare bring up the navy). It’s a comedy of errors that is a miracle that still persists at this point.
>But it did and since then it’s just been hover as much money as you can, no specific plan to it nor socialist ideals State-owned enterprises accounted for over 60% of China's market capitalization in 2019 and generated 40% of China's GDP. They are slowly but surely socializing their economy. >just authoritarianism and rampant corruption. For some reason westerners seem to think dictatorship of the proletariate means democracy. In truth that is an entirely western invention. The dictatorship of the proletariate has always meant a literal dictatorship > The dictatorship of the proletariat is the intermediate stage between a capitalist economy and a communist economy, whereby the post-revolutionary state seizes the means of production, compels the implementation of direct elections on behalf of and within the confines of the ruling proletarian state party, and instituting elected delegates into representative workers' councils that nationalise ownership of the means of production from private to collective ownership... > During this phase, the administrative organizational structure of the party is to be largely determined by the need for it to govern firmly and wield state power to prevent counterrevolution and to facilitate the transition to a lasting communist society. -- [Dictatorship of the Proletariate ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat#:~:text=The%20dictatorship%20of%20the%20proletariat%20is%20the%20intermediate%20stage%20between,ruling%20proletarian%20state%20party%2C%20and) This is what "real" socialism looks like. What you mistake for corruption is actually a vast difference in prioritization. It's completely alien to people from western liberal democracies. > Can see this lack of planning through the relationship with the central government and local governments and the necessity of turning to real estate for funding The Chinese government owns the majority of real estate. It's the private sector that's suffering. I'll admit this is a little tin foil hat of me but I believe that to be very intentional and part of the consolidation. It's all very complicated to get into in a reddit comment but china's economy is administratively driven rather than market driven. Large swaths of investments fail or rise at the same time by design.
Look at Germany. They think they can just print money to generate energy or make molecules. Reality doesn't work that way. The Green revolution will kill Germany's economy...maybe that was the goal.
Do they think money grows on trees?
They see the government as a money tree
[удалено]
It’s not like most of these leftist policies are proven to work in certain countries. /s In the US and similar countries they just don’t get to be fully and strongly implemented with care, because they always get shot down. You can’t just do some part of systems like the Dutch, German or Scandinavian system, without implementing it whole, or atleast mostly whole. The US political system is just way to inefficient for any major wing in direction atm. This constitution for example could have worked, but it was shot down before we could find out. Granted this constitutional could definitely use some more time to actually iron out the details, seeing that it’s been made in such a short time. Most Chileans did vote for this left leaning party to create a new more fair and progressive constitution. Don’t forget that.
The Latin American Problem: Vote left who simp for Cuba and Venezuela leaning politicians who implement shitty social programs that eventually promote lazy bastards Vote right wing politicians who simp for the US or past dictatorships and keep the status quo
Exactly
Accidentally Brazil
That needs to be a subreddit
Yeah, but it would have a high chance to become a politics warzone
Based
The end product was extremely woke, to put it shortly. The left was over represented in this process and decided to impose their views. It backfired. Approval dropped from 78% to 38%, almost 1 million voters who voted in favor last time now rejected the draft.
It is crazy how approval/disproval varies based on the implementation of an Ideal. Like damn near 80% agreed on the idea, but it gets cut in half when you start trying to figure out how to make the sausage. This is why, Polls say 80% of people want XYZ are generally meaningless. Take abortion the polling is always about who is pro-life vs pro-choice. But the words are fuzzy What is Pro-life to one person could be viewed as Pro-choice to another. If you live in NYC thinking the ability to receive abortion procedure stops at week 12 could make you pro-life, that same thought could make you pro-choice in Texas.
I'm Spanish. I like feminism. I like equality, men and women having the same opportunities, not being judged because of their gender, humans, in general, being able to live with similar standards is a based as fuck ideal to me. Now, *before even starting to number the articles* the text makes a point to refer to both genders (in Spanish, male is used for neutral) and puts women before men which makes me feel queasy. But then article 6 comes and hits with a: >2. Todos los órganos colegiados del Estado, los autónomos constitucionales, los superiores y directivos de la Administración, así como los directorios de las empresas públicas y semipúblicas, deberán tener una composición paritaria que asegure que, al menos, el cincuenta por ciento de sus integrantes sean mujeres. Which roughly translates to every high ranking government position having to be *at least* 50% women. Motherfucker that's some serious supremacist shit. Not only would I not in a million years vote for this I'd probably blacklist in my mind whoever responsible for this. The very first article defining Chile as "plurinational, intercultural, regional and **ecologist** isn't helping either. Save the planet and all but it's batshit insane to me to write that in the *first fucking article of the goddamned constitution*. Pero que cojones os pasa por ahi?
It's like people spend their whole lives pushing for something, it becomes their whole identity. So when it comes into balance, all they know is how to push in that direction, so they just keep on doing it. And come up with reasons why they are justified in doing so.
Yes. Im absolutely convinced a progressive constitution would had been approved, if it just hadn’t been a massive pile of crap.
You get a similar result when you ask about universal healthcare. When asked if people want it, a majority says yes. When asked if they are willing to eat the tax increase that goes along with it you suddenly get a lot less people willing to go along with it.
Do you want Universal Healthcare. Yes obviously ok which one NHS Style German Style Dutch Style ETC ETC. The numbers seem to drop and it isn't like you can compromise. You can't go yeah I want 20% Single Provider and 80% Single Payer lol.
The only ones I'd even consider is the Dutch or SK systems.
Because a lot of people think universal healthcare = rich man pays for it. Once people realize they have to chip in the general healthy distrust of government kicks and and people say fuck that.
That's the whole basis of how anything and everything will get paid for in their minds. It was bizarre hearing Jagmeet Singh and his NDP (the social Democratic party in Canada) back up every proposed social program with "it will be paid for by taxing the super rich." National pharmacare? Tax the super rich. New Green Deal for Canada? Tax the super rich. National Dentacare? Tax the super rich. It didn't take an economist or policy expert to recognize that any of these policies would inevitably mean higher taxes for the every-Canadian, not just the super rich.
Healthcare is a bad example because every universal healthcare system in the world is still cheaper and has better outcomes than the US… The US spends more on healthcare per capita than any other country, tax increase would be cheaper than insurance premiums and deductibles. Edit: downvoting what is literally true… the US has the highest cost of care per capita for some of the worst outcomes among first world countries. Y’all gotta be delusional
It’s shocking how effective the left is at making sure all committees are overwhelmingly progressive.
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Flair up
The Ghost of Pinochet threatened them with a free one-way helicopter ride.
Based and Kobe pilled
Nahhhh💀
Bruuuuuuuuuh 💀💀💀
I remember seeing something about natives getting the right to veto the laws, also 50% of the Senate being woman and some spots being reserved to natives
Non Chilean: Chile's constitution still is a modified from the pinochet times. Thereofore an esembly was called in to make a new one. Mostly lefties were e Voted into the esembly. They pushed it to far with welfare stuff and sj stuff. Then the centrists turned aggainst it.
Chilean: this statement is true. I want to add that the "modifications" were made by the president Ricardo Lagos. Plus other problems was that the propposed constitution was saying that the state of Chile was [plurinational](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurinationalism), but on an extreme level there was going to be different codes of law and judicicial systems meaning there wasn't going to be equality under law. And more atributions to the ineficient state, and threatening that individual property isn't granted. Metioning u/Anon_Monon to make him see this reply.
Love how the wokeists don’t even pretend to be egalitarian anymore
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Thanks for your insight!
The new constitución was woke af
I expected the results, polls already demonstrated that almost everyone preferred the old constitution to the new one, seeing the "Rechazó" option win by 65/35 was kind of unexpected, i thought it would be a bit more disputed though
I believe that more than the proposed text being decided with the referendum, the main reason it got regected was because of the poor show the "democratily elected people who wrote it". For example always with some shit about the current ways of the country, or showing some sort of superiority (only count Dooku can do that). One of the gusta who got elected Even faked being un cáncer treatment. And some of the important things that people wanted to be discussed did not Made ir, for example the iniciative "not with My money" wich was the most voted via an online survey. Anyway, i think this option won because of the poor executionnpf the process and the lefty people who did not gave a shit about the conservative sector in Chile wich is large. Oh and i forgot during a performance for the "aprove option", a trans group in a stage on live tv (facebook, Instagram, etc) pull down his pants and he/she removed a chilean flag inserted in his/her ass, it was an outstanding Magic trick Viva Chile conchutamere
Left-leaning is an understatement. We dodged a fucking bullet here
Even some of the policies that I agree with (universal healthcare, for instance) had me like “what? Why does that belong in the constitution? This is an issue that should be left up to voters.”
People very often forget just how solid and rigid a constitution is supposed to be, it's supposed to be a Skeleton, the foundation of your whole legal and political systems, but then there's places like france where every third government wipes their ass with it
I think that's what the Chilean government was planning on though: by enshrining their political agenda into a new constitution, they could totally re-frame that skeleton into whatever they saw fit. If this would have passed, it would have been an ideological coup of their national affairs.
This constitution wouldn’t have been so much of a skeleton as a fully-functional autonomous robot
indeed we dodged a fucking nuke this time. Lets see how much it lasts tho
In case anyone wants to read the article [https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/04/americas/chile-constitution-vote-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/04/americas/chile-constitution-vote-intl/index.html) >With almost all of the ballots counted, 62% of voters rejected the proposal with 38% voting in favor, according to the Chile Electoral Service. > >The proposed constitution, which had the support of leftist President Gabriel Boric, included 388 articles that would have significantly extended social rights, increased environmental regulation and given the government wider responsibility for social welfare programs. It also would have provided full gender parity and added designated seats for indigenous representatives. > >In October 2020, more than 78% of Chilean voters approved a plebiscite that proposed constitutional change, and in June 2021, they cast their ballots again to pick the members for a constituent assembly.
Jesus imagine having your public vote for a new constitution just to find out the people who voted you in dont want what you ran for
I mean you can run on affordable food then propose to feed the entire population with bread only.
> It also would have provided full gender parity 50 to 100% women is now gender parity I hate the antichrist.
“Gender equality is when women”
i hate the antichrist too
No slot for enbi and queer? What a fucking bigotttt
Holy shit that's a lot of articles for a constitution
some countries/states use their constitution as a comprehensive document that serves as a legal code ([texas's constitution](https://tlc.texas.gov/docs/legref/TxConst.pdf) is 86,936 words, 258 pages, and alabamas is 388,882 words)
That's actually interesting, our constitution has like 140 articles but we had already codified most legal matters in their respective codes
Ngl should've just been "be good humans." would've been sufficient 👍
Ah Chile, you beautiful, long, mountainous country Never change
And never cross those mountains : ^ ) Their “friendly” neighbor Argie.
Try crossing that strip of water again. Dare you. Friendly neighbourhood Brit.
Im still annoyed that they did such an idiotic thing. But well, what can you expect of a military dictatorship.
Based and Andes Pilled.
Andes nuts
And they didn't need helicopters this time
It's almost as if the average person is too busy trying to feed themselves and/or their families to care about paying for your humanities degree
Oh noooo, free people used democracy to vote for what they wanted in their country I am truly seething, it's not like this is what I fight for or anything
Based and totally, truly seething pilled
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You're one of the good ones. A breed of "libleft" on the verge of extinction. Lead by example and the name Gates of Osiris shall be remembered.
Here we observe the rare "based" libleft, truley a sight to behold
I love democracy
I didn't know Chili's 🌶️ had a voting system in place?
yea its how they decided the specials every week
As a chilean i confirm
Chile is safe from becoming Venezuela 2.0... for now
Based af
Chile is based
And can you sign this notifying you that the people in uniforms stealing your crops are for your own good.
Based and long coastline pilled
Pinochet would be proud.
Based and helicopter pilled
Pinochet is dead, but his spirit is thankfully still around
That shit was a far-left wishlist
I’m amazed it got 36% voting for it.
Pinochet would be proud
What was it about the constitution that made it "leftist"?
Most of it
By law women must hold *at least* 50% of government positions. Abortion rights. Indigenous people hold certain rights that other citizens don't. Certain resources such as water were now human rights. Rights to healthcare, housing, and education were added. Private property was no longer constitutionally protected and was now subordinated to government protection of the environment. 'Nature' itself has rights and a government agency shall be created to protect them. Abolishment of the Senate in 2026 with a unicameral legislature from then on.
>By law women must hold at least 50% of government positions. Dumbest thing I've ever heard. >Abortion rights I spoke too soon. >Rights to healthcare, housing, and education were added. Commie bastards. >Private property was no longer constitutionally protected Okay. I need to read literally nothing other than this. If you'd led with this, I'd have saved some time. Fuck that. It is beneath the dignity of man not to own property. Y'all need some serious Catholic intervention.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/x6jf52/-/in7matp A comment of mine that could help.
According to AP News, voting was mandatory. How do they enforce that? A fine?
In most nations with mandatory vote, there are fines, there's no need to pay the fine if you give the election authority a reasonable excuse tho
Interesting. Thanks. Sounds like jury duty lol.
A fine up to 170 usd aprox.
Are the leftists going to do the funny again as they typically do when they lose vote or popular support?
Loot and riot? Perhaps, but first they need a messiah to sacrifice his life to kick start the Summer of Love 2: Electric Boogaloo
Leftists: "we need to cheat harder"
A Latin country is right leaning? Who could have known?!😱
The country has a leftist president right now tho? Along with every other country all the way up to Colombia lol
Yeah, but the country itself is still conservative. Conservatives will vote liberal if the other option is worse.
Hmm. I think they may be some confusion on culturally conservative vs right leaning.
Maybe.
Long live Augusto Pinochet Ugarte
Helicopter man would be proud
There is something we haven't learned so far. Don't be too ambitious and implement shit slowly, unless you are building from scratch. Otherwise everything will collapse, like the dumpster fire Gorbachev, rest in peace, created.
Or pull a CRT and couch it in institutional hegemonic logic. Works like a damn charm.
Sad Allende noises
Based and la fome wea pilled
Chilean here, you are right weon.
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I have patrolled the comments, there are no unflaireds. Stay safe brothers the scourge of the unflaireds is still out there.
( Sings in Helicopter tone)
What exactly did they want to introduce ? Solely healthcare and unimployment bucks ?
It had all kinds of weird stuff, including "the right to compete in sports," however the hell that would be implemented or enforced, and saying each indigenous tribe could establish their own courts and law enforcement independent of the federal government (13% of Chile is indigenous).
Huh ? 😆
Democracy works.
They still remember.
Knowing how pinochet got into power I feel like Chileans don't want that to happen, again.
Based and democracypilled
If they don't want it and vote against it, it's their right to do so, I respect the outcome of this democratic election, unlike the American goverment in '73
Auth Right is so happy right now
pinochet lives
least projecting right, most people like democracy
REEEE