If by that you mean the Catholic church tried to kill him, forced him into exile for several years, and excommunicated him, and even then he condemned the violent wing of the Reformation, then yes
> I'll be very hostile the next time I don't see the flair.
***
^(User has flaired up! 😃) 11921 / 62886 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
At first, after his thesis were rejected he decided the church was beyond saving and that a new church must be made, tho he was against other protestant religions as well, and he told his followers not to name the new church after him
I mean, there’s a famous saying about Luther. “His life would have been a whole lot better if he had died a decade earlier.” The last 10 years of his life he became increasingly antisemitic, writing papers and attending speeches on the matter. I’m not saying the guy was literally hitler, because he was literally not. But he did have pretty extreme antisemitic views even for the time when antisemitism was becoming more and more normalized.
‘On the Jews and their lies’. I’ve never read the whole thing, but the parts I skimmed were kind of a mess; the church shouldn’t harass Jews, people should harrass Jews, no one should harass Jews, the church should harass Jews.
I look at it as he became a grumpy old, possibly senile, man later in life.
The original ‘anger’ he held for the Jews was somewhat biblical though; “you are the chosen people of God, you should be the first in line to accept Jesus, but you reject him?!” But then he kinda goes off the rails from there.
Muscovy/Russia was going ham and consolidating during that time so yeah, it was a great time for them. They were probably happy to see Luther doing a little trolling in Western Europe lol.
There was actually hope the 2 could unite churches, but that was put down when the Patriarch of Constantinople saw the main tenets of Protestantism sent to him.
Edit: This is a good video on the subject actually
https://youtu.be/NgYWbWUmLKE
>Initially, in his 1518 Explanation of the Ninety-five Theses, Luther had argued against resisting the Turks, whom he presented as a scourge intentionally sent by God to sinning Christians, and that resisting it would have been equivalent to resisting the will of God.
Based
-Turk
...an Icelandic evangelical church even went so far as [Christ forgive me] saying that Jesus was a pansexual transgender woman....for all I care the Heretics can burn!
Yeah, I grew up WELS and they spoke of the Missouri Synod as basically being liberal and straying from doctrine. It wasn't until I saw the Missouri Synod being listed as fundamentalist in a sociology book, that I realized how far to the right WELS is.
Oh, what the hell? I used to be, too. Never thought I'd meet another one out in the wilds of reddit.
Fuck the ELCA. Honestly, just fuck the corruption of Christianity in general. I might not be a Christian anymore, but I think religious institutions need to have standards in accordance with what they preach. Those re\[moved by Reddit\]s go entirely against the Bible's teachings.
Yeah, most seem to be in the Midwest or near German areas, my parents were baptists in florida but went over to the Lutheran church, which is what I was raised in...
Yes beacuse obviously a man that died 400 years ago is to blame for the current state of affairs.
It is also a bit rich listening to Catholics moan about the Lutheran Churches considering the state of the Catholic church these days.
Maybe it should have kept going downhill until an even worse group filled the power vacuum left behind?
Perhaps the shitstorm that Martin caused created the best possible timeline.
For what ended up happening? Yes.
Realistically, compared to what could have been, it is probably the okayest possible timeline.
Could have been worse, but could have been a lot better.
You’re talking like we’ve somehow reached the end of history and nothing is going to change in the future.
It’s never over. Our liberties can always be taken from us.
Exactly. The Catholic Church and their indulgence scheme was an incredible abuse of power. They took advantage of being some of the few literate people and treated everyone else like shit.
As a native to a country who purged Catholics from our land, I think Marty “Mad Lad von Deutsch Land” Luther is the best shitposter the world ever had. To think that one man, with a copypasta nailed to a random door in Germany, could cause the amount of ragebaiting that it did... amazing.
Yeah, Protestant pastors are the only ones that exploit the whole giving-money-to-church thing. LibRight should be happy that the Catholics have never done anything like commercializing religion...
Heh, them Letters of indulgence were one of the main motivators of Luther.
All that money collecting and not using it to actually help people was in general one thing he hated as fuck.
In 1531, Martin Luther claimed that Pope Leo X had vetoed a measure that cardinals should restrict the number of boys they kept for their pleasure, "otherwise it would have been spread throughout the world how openly and shamelessly the Pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy." (Wikipedia)
Currently in an argument on twitter with a Catholic (a doctrine I don't agree with, but have a healthy respect for) who says we're all going to hell as heretics if we don't convert to Catholicism. This includes men like Billy Graham who spent his life leading other to Christ.
I thought we waz all friends now?
Askhistorians had a question about how that came about a while a go, that was pretty interesting.
Apparently the southern states of the US had the unique and somewhat extreme take on protestantism that you didn't need any religious education to be able to be able to properly understand the bible and that basically anyone could preach it. This because the people who emigrated to the new world for religious reasons ended up in the northern states and that was where they build the schools - so with travel and logistics being what they were the southern parts had virtually no people with religious educations to do the sermons, so they had to go for the uneducated ones... That of course paved the way for some very novel interpretations and understandings being preached - and you can see the downstream effects of all of that today.
That’s kind of it, Jesus as the son of God was the fulfillment of God’s covenant with the Israelites (see: all the laws that many Jews keep since they’re still in denial and think the *real* son of God will come and create a literal earthly empire of God).
In fulfillment of this covenant Jesus took all the sin of mankind upon himself, suffered, died, and went to hell for three days. No one knows why Satan was so sure he managed to fuck God over but after the days Jesus was like “yo I’m out this shit!” And he went back to earth to chill, then he ascended into heaven.
Lutherans will therefore claim that all you need to do in order to be saved is be remorseful for your sins and have faith that God has forgiven you.
This is where you get chicken and egg problems about faith and works that people manipulate to excuse their shitty behavior. If you truly have faith, you’ll do good works and sin less because you want to be more like God. “Only God can judge me!” Well, yeah, only God can send you to Hell, I’ll just label you a cunt and move on…
Canonically: Mary is the result of the “Immaculate Conception” where she was shielded from original sin. That is the reason she is able to be Jesus’ mother. If she sinned, idk, but she is not a victim of Adam & Eve’s original sin
If God can just shield people from original sin then why didn't he do that with everyone? What would be the point of you sending Jesus if you can just shield people from original sin? Also Mary called Jesus her savior. How can he be her savior if she's free of sin?
Why can’t I just pray to God? He’s omnipotent and all-powerful. I’m sure he’s more than capable of taking a minute or two out of his day to listen to me
Catholic moment
I’ll deal with the consequences in Purgatory.
(Really though, much love from your reformbros, even if we disgaree with some things. There’s only one Church).
> Hi. Please flair up accordingly to your quadrant, or others might bully you for the rest of your life.
***
^(User has flaired up! 😃) 11911 / 62845 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Martin Luther is based as fuck. He was very devout in his believes and when he discovered that the center of his religion was filled with fake believers selling pardons to heaven he broke away. He came up with a list of why and then spread the Bible to the masses so that church elite couldn’t have a monopoly on scripture.
Protestants: we must form a new church free of corruption! The current system will only lead to its downfall, and in that all will perish!
Anglicans: ha our king wanted another wife what a chad, guess it’s time to just create a new church.
The Anglican Church is highly misunderstood, first The split between Rome and England was coming for a while. Every little dispute that England got into with another county, The Church sided against England. Also England was America before America, they hated authority. It was only a matter of time, and Henry really didn’t create the culture of the Anglican Church, that was his son and his daughter.
And now, England loves authority.
Might say his daughter mostly, a king who died at 15 probably didn't have much input that weren't his ministers words.
First rule of American conservative populism: You don't have to be evangelical Protestant to count as Christian. You only need to have the evangelical Protestants *accept* you as Christian to count as Christian. Catholics, Mormons and Ben Shapiro are all on the side of God against the degenerates *because* evangelical Protestants in the U.S. gave them the thumbs up. Anything else is relativism.
Mmmmmmmmmh.
As far as I know, us Christians aren't big fans of mormons. Ben Shapiro is cool, cause he's a jew, part of God's people who will be redeemed in the end times. Though we have our differences, we do come together on certain important points.
Luther had his problems, but let's consider what the alternatives were:
A church that straight up murdered and tortured you if you disagreed with them doctrinally and didn't recant.
A church that blatantly exchanged pardon for sin (for yourself or your relatives "in purgatory") for "donations", the way Simon Magus wanted.
A church that altered the ten commandments of God, removing a commandment entirely (the second, a prohibition against images) and removing most of the wording from the longest while also changing its meaning (the fourth, a command to keep holy the *seventh* day of the week, not the first, as the Catholic church and others now observe) - a direct fulfillment of the prophecy that something would rise to power and "think to change times and laws."
A church that teaches that a man - the bishop of Rome - somehow holds the place of Almighty God upon the Earth, despite Christ's explicit declaration that it is the Holy Spirit who is His Vicegerent.
A church that declared that, given the choice between God's laws and the Pope's, that we were better without God's laws.
A church that teaches that Christ, and thus Mary, was born with flesh like unfallen Adam, contrary to the testimony of Scripture, which says that He came with the flesh of the sons of Abraham.
A church that contrived a hell that burns without consuming for the ceaseless ages of eternity, supposed that the lost are consigned to suffer ceaselessly there, and that the devil and demons are in charge of that place, contrary to the testimony of the scriptures, which declare that the lost shall be consumed into ashes, and utterly destroyed - which destruction is a punishment, and which lasts forever, and is in fact the far more just, eternal punishment to which the lost are sentenced - and that Satan and his hosts should be themselves consumed by the fire, and should not exist anymore after said consumption.
I could go on.
Luther had many errors, but he is not to be judged on what he didn't know was wrong, but rather by how he lived up to the light that he had. For if we were judged by the light that never shone on our way, then there none could be saved; we all must needs be destroyed, Catholic and Protestant; Christia, pagan, Muslim, or atheist; the most moral as well as the most vile.
Protestantism confused me for a lot of reasons. The biggest being scripture alone. The books of the Bible were determined by a council. How can you ascribe authority to a list of texts without assigning authority to those who chose those texts?
Because protestantism came about due to material corruption of the church, not because of the foundation of the church. The 95 theses lay it out pretty well.
I think the reasoning may have been that the OGs who compiled the books were actually based but now the Catholic Church in his day was unbased and corrupt so the only source that could be trusted were the books and modern interpretations/practices are dubious.
The Lutheran church is much more similar to Catholicism in practice, but many evangelical churches took Sola Scriptura to a whole new level.
Luther doesn’t completely neglect all the sources that didn’t make it into the Bible as we know it. He actually didn’t even find much usefulness in the book of Revelations. He fully supported studying these sources, but due to the somewhat dubious nature of them in comparison to the rest, the Vulgate did not include them
Idk why I feel the need to do this, but all Protestant roots in Jehovah's Witnesses was purged in 1916 when Rutherford took the religion over and laid the roots for the cult its become. Source: JW for 24 years
Sola scriptura is here, thanks to him, allowing for the self-education of the masses and breaking Catholicisms hold by exposing the truth. Catholics actually fought against having the bible printed in the language of the people and papists defend that.
Imagine so called Christians not wanting people to read the bible. Based Luther.
classic revolutionary
"this system sucks, here are my criticisms"
"what, why the fuck are y'all mentioning other criticisms no"
"WHAT, why the fuck are y'all criticizing MY system, straight to dungeon"
Don't pretend everyone agrees with you. He called out corrupt officials and a corrupt false church. Unlike the lies on this meme he also never called for the violence and many times called for the violence to stop. But even if he did the church deserved it because it was corrupt to the core
The real centrist perspective is “ I love him, he wrote one hundred reasons why the church sucked, nailed it to a door, and let everyone else make up their own opinion”
It’s not his fault the crazies of every quadrant did this to each other.
He just put the info out there like “yo want to come to my barbecue? I’m grilling the Catholic Church.”
I am a catholic since it is my country main religion, I love the traditions but I agree with you that the catholic church is corrupt and it should be reformed
The Catholic church was morally declining for like a few hundred years now. There were attempts to reform the church such as John Wycliffe and Jon Hus, but those didn't stop the chruch. So during Luther's time the Catholic church is like super corrupt. Pope Leo wanted to rebuild the St Peter's Basilica, so he exploited the masses for money by selling indulgences, and Luther called him out on it. Sure he did some really bad things, but I dont think he was "literally the antichrist" for wanting change.
Also some of OP's statements are purely wrong. I'm assuming Authleft is mentioning the German Peasants War, in which the peasants are actually sympathetic towards Luther's cause and wanted his support. Luther doesn't give this support because Lutheran churches depend on the state, which are German princes who oppose the peasant rebellion.
Hey, get fucked, papist, i would rather see you as brother in christ, but hole hell you are more like the annoying uncle that drunkenly destroys the wedding cake
Tell me you know nothing about the history of Catholicism and Martin Luther without telling me you know nothing about the history of Catholicism or Martin Luther.
There are two wolves inside me. One says that Martin Luther was based for calling out the corruption of the papacy and staying true to his beliefs.
The other one hates Martin Luther for being a reson of one and a half millenia of bloody religious strife in Europe.
>one and a half millenia of bloody religious strife in Europe
Surely you mean half a millenia? Unless he time traveled and caused the Miaphysite split too at the council of chalcedon.
Luther is like my favorite historical figure that was just a man. Sure, a lot of bad things did happen, but most importantly, we got back to scripture. The theology became based on the Bible instead of what ever the Pope came up with the previous morning. Christianity without him would be illogical insanity.
Also by faith not works we get into heaven. So stop being a Catholic heretic
The Protestant reformation was something that needed to happen. On top of the extreme amount of corruption in the Catholic Church at the time, catholic teachings diverged greatly from biblical scripture as outlined by the 95 theses. And keep in mind the time period. Martin Luther was far from the only one outwardly expressing hatred for and calling for violence against Jews, Muslims, and “heretical” Christian denominations.
It's not even that the peasants didn't support the reform, they actually followed it trough thanks to one of Luther's disciples Thomas Müntzer and decided that if men were created equal by God then they could no longer live in servitude. Luther replied that freedom was only something they could do in their mind and had to wait for reward after this life and urged the nobles to pass them all by the sword and kill them like rabid dogs. It is theorized that up to a third of south Germany's population was murdered during the war.
If I'm not too late to this party...
I've been a believer for about 15 years now. I was essentially non-denominational/Protestant, even though I found calling myself "Protestant" an odd title because I wasn't "protesting" the Catholic Church. But since I'm from the US, the options were basically Protestant or Catholic, which is really a choice others told me I had to make. I just wanted to follow Christ...
But no one even mentioned the Eastern Orthodox Church. People always talk how the Protestant and Catholic Churches split because of Luther, but how many people (in North America and Western Europe anyway) talk about the splitting of the Western and Eastern churches, now called the Catholic and Orthodox churches? Virtually no one. In almost 15 years of studying theology I barely knew the Eastern Orthodox church even existed.
If anyone is interested, [here is a lecture on the Protestant Reformation by an Orthodox priest.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piVdrtgo7Xw)
[Part 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs0ExgnRMqc)
Just my thoughts. I'm still learning and debating. No anger or hate. Still learning. Love you all, PCM. :)
Didnt Luther oppose starting new churches and only want the change to occur within the catholic church
Your right, that's what the 95 theses was for.
Originally yes. Then he got kidnapped by German princes and idk what happened after with regards to his actual opinion.
I'd wager whatever happened had to do with large sums of money and the good succ from a working girl or two. After all, everyone has a price.
I’d wager more so it was a blade to the neck and a promise
The idea that a guy would make himself the enemy no 1 of the most powerful institution in Europe just because he was horny is absurd.
At first, yes, until he came to the conclusion his beliefs were incompatible with the Church
I think it’s more so until the CC kicked him out for his views (along with others, like Vermigli and Zwingli).
> so until the CC kicked him out The Chief Coq
If by that you mean the Catholic church tried to kill him, forced him into exile for several years, and excommunicated him, and even then he condemned the violent wing of the Reformation, then yes
Precisely this. Take my poor man's gold; this should be the top comment here. 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
More like “until the pope put bounties on his head”
> I'll be very hostile the next time I don't see the flair. *** ^(User has flaired up! 😃) 11921 / 62886 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Then changed his mind again at the end
At first, after his thesis were rejected he decided the church was beyond saving and that a new church must be made, tho he was against other protestant religions as well, and he told his followers not to name the new church after him
In my knowledge he didn't want a bloody revolution and he rejected the actions of his followers
Muh "literally Hitler, Satan, and Antichrist"
I mean, there’s a famous saying about Luther. “His life would have been a whole lot better if he had died a decade earlier.” The last 10 years of his life he became increasingly antisemitic, writing papers and attending speeches on the matter. I’m not saying the guy was literally hitler, because he was literally not. But he did have pretty extreme antisemitic views even for the time when antisemitism was becoming more and more normalized.
Got a quote or source of his anti-semitic views?
‘On the Jews and their lies’. I’ve never read the whole thing, but the parts I skimmed were kind of a mess; the church shouldn’t harass Jews, people should harrass Jews, no one should harass Jews, the church should harass Jews. I look at it as he became a grumpy old, possibly senile, man later in life. The original ‘anger’ he held for the Jews was somewhat biblical though; “you are the chosen people of God, you should be the first in line to accept Jesus, but you reject him?!” But then he kinda goes off the rails from there.
He kinda went off the deep end for a while after a few of his kids died
His Meniere's and hallucinations were likely a result of syphilis, which was rampant in Europe at the time. It can also drive you insane.
Eastern Orthodox Christians during the reformation: *Vibing in Eastern Europe*
I'm pretty sure vibing in Eastern Europe is more like learning how to live under the Ottoman yoke at this time.
That’s mostly the Balkans. Russia was an orthodox nation. But I do get your point
Muscovy/Russia was going ham and consolidating during that time so yeah, it was a great time for them. They were probably happy to see Luther doing a little trolling in Western Europe lol.
There was actually hope the 2 could unite churches, but that was put down when the Patriarch of Constantinople saw the main tenets of Protestantism sent to him. Edit: This is a good video on the subject actually https://youtu.be/NgYWbWUmLKE
More like vibing under Ottoman rule... at least the Ottomans did not go full genocide mode on other religions
>anti-turk Holy shit, do I love Martin Luther now?? -Kurd
>Initially, in his 1518 Explanation of the Ninety-five Theses, Luther had argued against resisting the Turks, whom he presented as a scourge intentionally sent by God to sinning Christians, and that resisting it would have been equivalent to resisting the will of God. Based -Turk
I have to admit I respect Kurds more than Turks, they sacked Constantinople
Wait, Mehmet the Conqueror was Kurdish? I thought he was Turkish?
He was. Dude was wrong But we did take Jerusalem.
Based and deus vult-pilled.
Lutheran here, plz give location so I can have you defenestrated.
Defenestrated is the best word to ever be created
Jokes on you...OP lives where 2 story buildings are [hopefully] rare.
The Congo?
The suburbs
How is the acceptation of trans priests and bishop in Lutheran church going?
Missouri Synod...we don't speak of the other branch
Ayy, me too. Isn't there even a 3rd one that make us look like liberals?
Yeah, WELS makes us LCMS people look like centrists, at least…
...an Icelandic evangelical church even went so far as [Christ forgive me] saying that Jesus was a pansexual transgender woman....for all I care the Heretics can burn!
[удалено]
Yeah, I grew up WELS and they spoke of the Missouri Synod as basically being liberal and straying from doctrine. It wasn't until I saw the Missouri Synod being listed as fundamentalist in a sociology book, that I realized how far to the right WELS is.
Where would you say AALC falls into this paradigm?
Fuck the ELCA. All my synod bros hate the ELCA.
The Evangelical Lutheran Church is only 1 of the 4 things it claims to be, and that's (sadly) American. Not evangelical, not Lutheran, not a church.
The evangelical branch yes...they're a "special" lot
Oh, what the hell? I used to be, too. Never thought I'd meet another one out in the wilds of reddit. Fuck the ELCA. Honestly, just fuck the corruption of Christianity in general. I might not be a Christian anymore, but I think religious institutions need to have standards in accordance with what they preach. Those re\[moved by Reddit\]s go entirely against the Bible's teachings.
Based and Amen pilled
Exactly. Don’t do it halfway. If you believe it, you believe all of it. You don’t get to decide what Jesus taught
Same here
Greetings, brother
I haven't met another outside the Midwest
Yeah, most seem to be in the Midwest or near German areas, my parents were baptists in florida but went over to the Lutheran church, which is what I was raised in...
WELS here so we’re bros, I think
Those aren't real lutherans though, just like Fr. James Martin isn't a real Catholic
Those synods need to repent, and/or give up the Lutheran name. They have nothing to do with Lutheranism before 1950ish.
Yes beacuse obviously a man that died 400 years ago is to blame for the current state of affairs. It is also a bit rich listening to Catholics moan about the Lutheran Churches considering the state of the Catholic church these days.
I tho8ght only Hussites defenestrated people
Libleft and AuthLeft are false …
He was a necessary evil because without him the counter reformation would have never happened.
This. People might hate him, but if it weren’t for him the church would have keep going downhill
Maybe it should have kept going downhill until an even worse group filled the power vacuum left behind? Perhaps the shitstorm that Martin caused created the best possible timeline.
You’re suggesting this is the best possible timeline?
For what ended up happening? Yes. Realistically, compared to what could have been, it is probably the okayest possible timeline. Could have been worse, but could have been a lot better.
You’re talking like we’ve somehow reached the end of history and nothing is going to change in the future. It’s never over. Our liberties can always be taken from us.
I should probably add a stipulation: *SO FAR*
Based and counter reformed pilled
this is the truth.
Exactly. The Catholic Church and their indulgence scheme was an incredible abuse of power. They took advantage of being some of the few literate people and treated everyone else like shit.
Protestant work ethic😤😤😤
Wayyy too OP
As a native to a country who purged Catholics from our land, I think Marty “Mad Lad von Deutsch Land” Luther is the best shitposter the world ever had. To think that one man, with a copypasta nailed to a random door in Germany, could cause the amount of ragebaiting that it did... amazing.
That is the most cringe and based way I have ever heard that be described
If you haven’t already, check out the Luther insult generator: https://ergofabulous.org/luther/ He’s definitely got a way with words.
They just mad he broke up the monopoly on Jesus.
Ole trust buster
Yeah, Protestant pastors are the only ones that exploit the whole giving-money-to-church thing. LibRight should be happy that the Catholics have never done anything like commercializing religion...
What's the going price for a ticket to remove my sins?
Ten hail Mary's, 100 bucks and a journey to the underworld to rescue my father
Do I have to bring my own sword?
Heh, them Letters of indulgence were one of the main motivators of Luther. All that money collecting and not using it to actually help people was in general one thing he hated as fuck.
Man sounds like all these guys dont know Jesus.
Papist agenda-posting
In 1531, Martin Luther claimed that Pope Leo X had vetoed a measure that cardinals should restrict the number of boys they kept for their pleasure, "otherwise it would have been spread throughout the world how openly and shamelessly the Pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy." (Wikipedia)
>Claimed
It from the Wikipedia page here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic\_Church\_sexual\_abuse\_cases
Based and anti-pedo pilled.
> [This whole thing is bullshit, that's a scam, fuck the church, here's 95 reasons why. ](https://youtu.be/xuCn8ux2gbs?t=787) Extremely based.
But the 95 theses weren't that crazy. They were meant to be prompts for a debate, which makes sense because Luther was a theology professor.
The true Sigma mindset: prompting a debate in a language hardly anybody knows before finally letting them in on it a week later.
“I’ve got 95 problems, but an oath of celibacy aint one…”
Wow, I really appreciate a papist holding onto grudges that I thought most forgot about. All of this is completely wrong but you do you "brother".
Forgotten?! Ever been to Europe? We know how keep our grudges for a VERY long time...
Yeah and you keep starting f*cking world wars over it. Knock that off.
Yep, i want Elsass Lothringen back
Currently in an argument on twitter with a Catholic (a doctrine I don't agree with, but have a healthy respect for) who says we're all going to hell as heretics if we don't convert to Catholicism. This includes men like Billy Graham who spent his life leading other to Christ. I thought we waz all friends now?
The Council of Trent and its anathemas have not been rescinded to my knowledge. Until then we're gonna have a hard time singing kumbaya.
He was nessecary. Any church giving "forgiveness" for sins in exchange for monetary donations is corrupt as hell.
On one hand, the Catholic Church needed a little healthy competition. On the other hand, fuck, now we have evangelicals.
>On one hand, the Catholic Church needed a little healthy competition. Capitalism: Church DLC pack
Lmao
Askhistorians had a question about how that came about a while a go, that was pretty interesting. Apparently the southern states of the US had the unique and somewhat extreme take on protestantism that you didn't need any religious education to be able to be able to properly understand the bible and that basically anyone could preach it. This because the people who emigrated to the new world for religious reasons ended up in the northern states and that was where they build the schools - so with travel and logistics being what they were the southern parts had virtually no people with religious educations to do the sermons, so they had to go for the uneducated ones... That of course paved the way for some very novel interpretations and understandings being preached - and you can see the downstream effects of all of that today.
That is indeed interesting
"There's actually very interesting historical context for evangelicals" "What is it?" "Southerners are dumb"
As a Southerner, it checks out
Well he won by a hell large difference
The whole concept of indulgences never set right with me. Or praying to the Virgin Mary. Mostly the indulgences though
The sinless nature of Mary makes little sense to me. Mary was human, ergo she must have committed some sin in her lifetime, as all have sinned.
Isn't the whole idea that because Adam and eve ate The forbidden fruit that all humans were born into sin and had no way of redemption before jesus
Happy Cake Day Big_Bad_Johnn! The only dare you ever want to take is the dare to be all that you can be.
Based and wholesome message pilled
That’s kind of it, Jesus as the son of God was the fulfillment of God’s covenant with the Israelites (see: all the laws that many Jews keep since they’re still in denial and think the *real* son of God will come and create a literal earthly empire of God). In fulfillment of this covenant Jesus took all the sin of mankind upon himself, suffered, died, and went to hell for three days. No one knows why Satan was so sure he managed to fuck God over but after the days Jesus was like “yo I’m out this shit!” And he went back to earth to chill, then he ascended into heaven. Lutherans will therefore claim that all you need to do in order to be saved is be remorseful for your sins and have faith that God has forgiven you. This is where you get chicken and egg problems about faith and works that people manipulate to excuse their shitty behavior. If you truly have faith, you’ll do good works and sin less because you want to be more like God. “Only God can judge me!” Well, yeah, only God can send you to Hell, I’ll just label you a cunt and move on…
Canonically: Mary is the result of the “Immaculate Conception” where she was shielded from original sin. That is the reason she is able to be Jesus’ mother. If she sinned, idk, but she is not a victim of Adam & Eve’s original sin
If God can just shield people from original sin then why didn't he do that with everyone? What would be the point of you sending Jesus if you can just shield people from original sin? Also Mary called Jesus her savior. How can he be her savior if she's free of sin?
Almost 2 millenia and thats the best excuse they could come up with huh?
And where in the Bible is the immaculate conception?
Sacred Tradition, my friend.
As we all know, Jesus would have been contaminated with sin if Mary wasn't sinless, because sin is stored in the ~~balls~~ uterus.
"Pray to st Anthony you'll find your keys" Pagan nonsense
You don’t pray to Mary you pray for her intercession. It’s like asking her to pray for you
Why? We're all equal in sin
Chad Lutheran
Which is dumb. You winge to a guys mum because you didn't get the response you wanted. Pathetic
Why can’t I just pray to God? He’s omnipotent and all-powerful. I’m sure he’s more than capable of taking a minute or two out of his day to listen to me
Asking a w*man to do something for me (that isn't cooking and cleaning and raising the kids) 🤢🤢🤢
Catholic moment I’ll deal with the consequences in Purgatory. (Really though, much love from your reformbros, even if we disgaree with some things. There’s only one Church).
Yeah, the orthodox church. Frickin papist
Quiet, schismatist.
Bro made a “compass unity” meme when there’s no compass unity on the issue, plus bad grammar.
Luther did nothing wrong and is responsible for the rapid growth of Christian knowledge among the masses
> Hi. Please flair up accordingly to your quadrant, or others might bully you for the rest of your life. *** ^(User has flaired up! 😃) 11911 / 62845 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Deus 🅱ult
Devs Bvlt*
Devs lo Bvlt*
rich market juggle gaping touch imagine paltry cow squash crowd *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Martin Luther is based as fuck. He was very devout in his believes and when he discovered that the center of his religion was filled with fake believers selling pardons to heaven he broke away. He came up with a list of why and then spread the Bible to the masses so that church elite couldn’t have a monopoly on scripture.
Protestants: we must form a new church free of corruption! The current system will only lead to its downfall, and in that all will perish! Anglicans: ha our king wanted another wife what a chad, guess it’s time to just create a new church.
The Anglican Church is highly misunderstood, first The split between Rome and England was coming for a while. Every little dispute that England got into with another county, The Church sided against England. Also England was America before America, they hated authority. It was only a matter of time, and Henry really didn’t create the culture of the Anglican Church, that was his son and his daughter.
And now, England loves authority. Might say his daughter mostly, a king who died at 15 probably didn't have much input that weren't his ministers words.
People dislike Luther? He's like the 2nd most based german after Bismarck.
Luther is the fucking man and you can kiss my German ass
based and Germans Rock pilled
In before AuthCenter gets a little too national socialist.
Did someone call?
Thank god for sending Luther
[удалено]
First rule of American conservative populism: You don't have to be evangelical Protestant to count as Christian. You only need to have the evangelical Protestants *accept* you as Christian to count as Christian. Catholics, Mormons and Ben Shapiro are all on the side of God against the degenerates *because* evangelical Protestants in the U.S. gave them the thumbs up. Anything else is relativism.
Mmmmmmmmmh. As far as I know, us Christians aren't big fans of mormons. Ben Shapiro is cool, cause he's a jew, part of God's people who will be redeemed in the end times. Though we have our differences, we do come together on certain important points.
I like him, because he pissed off all 4 quadrants
He was a good man.
Luther had his problems, but let's consider what the alternatives were: A church that straight up murdered and tortured you if you disagreed with them doctrinally and didn't recant. A church that blatantly exchanged pardon for sin (for yourself or your relatives "in purgatory") for "donations", the way Simon Magus wanted. A church that altered the ten commandments of God, removing a commandment entirely (the second, a prohibition against images) and removing most of the wording from the longest while also changing its meaning (the fourth, a command to keep holy the *seventh* day of the week, not the first, as the Catholic church and others now observe) - a direct fulfillment of the prophecy that something would rise to power and "think to change times and laws." A church that teaches that a man - the bishop of Rome - somehow holds the place of Almighty God upon the Earth, despite Christ's explicit declaration that it is the Holy Spirit who is His Vicegerent. A church that declared that, given the choice between God's laws and the Pope's, that we were better without God's laws. A church that teaches that Christ, and thus Mary, was born with flesh like unfallen Adam, contrary to the testimony of Scripture, which says that He came with the flesh of the sons of Abraham. A church that contrived a hell that burns without consuming for the ceaseless ages of eternity, supposed that the lost are consigned to suffer ceaselessly there, and that the devil and demons are in charge of that place, contrary to the testimony of the scriptures, which declare that the lost shall be consumed into ashes, and utterly destroyed - which destruction is a punishment, and which lasts forever, and is in fact the far more just, eternal punishment to which the lost are sentenced - and that Satan and his hosts should be themselves consumed by the fire, and should not exist anymore after said consumption. I could go on. Luther had many errors, but he is not to be judged on what he didn't know was wrong, but rather by how he lived up to the light that he had. For if we were judged by the light that never shone on our way, then there none could be saved; we all must needs be destroyed, Catholic and Protestant; Christia, pagan, Muslim, or atheist; the most moral as well as the most vile.
Protestantism confused me for a lot of reasons. The biggest being scripture alone. The books of the Bible were determined by a council. How can you ascribe authority to a list of texts without assigning authority to those who chose those texts?
Because protestantism came about due to material corruption of the church, not because of the foundation of the church. The 95 theses lay it out pretty well.
I think the reasoning may have been that the OGs who compiled the books were actually based but now the Catholic Church in his day was unbased and corrupt so the only source that could be trusted were the books and modern interpretations/practices are dubious. The Lutheran church is much more similar to Catholicism in practice, but many evangelical churches took Sola Scriptura to a whole new level.
Luther doesn’t completely neglect all the sources that didn’t make it into the Bible as we know it. He actually didn’t even find much usefulness in the book of Revelations. He fully supported studying these sources, but due to the somewhat dubious nature of them in comparison to the rest, the Vulgate did not include them
Martin Luther, still making papists seethe centuries after his departure for the presence of God. A wiser man of better character there's seldom been.
Idk why I feel the need to do this, but all Protestant roots in Jehovah's Witnesses was purged in 1916 when Rutherford took the religion over and laid the roots for the cult its become. Source: JW for 24 years
Sola scriptura is here, thanks to him, allowing for the self-education of the masses and breaking Catholicisms hold by exposing the truth. Catholics actually fought against having the bible printed in the language of the people and papists defend that. Imagine so called Christians not wanting people to read the bible. Based Luther.
classic revolutionary "this system sucks, here are my criticisms" "what, why the fuck are y'all mentioning other criticisms no" "WHAT, why the fuck are y'all criticizing MY system, straight to dungeon"
Don't pretend everyone agrees with you. He called out corrupt officials and a corrupt false church. Unlike the lies on this meme he also never called for the violence and many times called for the violence to stop. But even if he did the church deserved it because it was corrupt to the core
Check this guy's post history.... He's terminally online and constantly posts galaxy brain convictions behind the guise of a "meme"
Hes just another proof of why the biggest threat to Europe is Germany
Biggest threat to Germany is also Germany lmao
Martin Luther was based because he told the Pope that Papal authority and tradition was super corrupt and big gey.
The real centrist perspective is “ I love him, he wrote one hundred reasons why the church sucked, nailed it to a door, and let everyone else make up their own opinion” It’s not his fault the crazies of every quadrant did this to each other. He just put the info out there like “yo want to come to my barbecue? I’m grilling the Catholic Church.”
Catholicism is literally based on corruption. All Luther did was expose the corruption of the Catholic church.
I am a catholic since it is my country main religion, I love the traditions but I agree with you that the catholic church is corrupt and it should be reformed
The Catholic church was morally declining for like a few hundred years now. There were attempts to reform the church such as John Wycliffe and Jon Hus, but those didn't stop the chruch. So during Luther's time the Catholic church is like super corrupt. Pope Leo wanted to rebuild the St Peter's Basilica, so he exploited the masses for money by selling indulgences, and Luther called him out on it. Sure he did some really bad things, but I dont think he was "literally the antichrist" for wanting change. Also some of OP's statements are purely wrong. I'm assuming Authleft is mentioning the German Peasants War, in which the peasants are actually sympathetic towards Luther's cause and wanted his support. Luther doesn't give this support because Lutheran churches depend on the state, which are German princes who oppose the peasant rebellion.
He was based (I’ve actually read the Bible).
Hey, get fucked, papist, i would rather see you as brother in christ, but hole hell you are more like the annoying uncle that drunkenly destroys the wedding cake
Tell me you know nothing about the history of Catholicism and Martin Luther without telling me you know nothing about the history of Catholicism or Martin Luther.
Luther was based Catholitards seething
Catholics try to think reasonably about theological topics [IMPOSSIBLE]
Because the Catholics never supported Genocide, were never racist, never ask for money and *looks at paper* never exploited the Word for profits.
There are two wolves inside me. One says that Martin Luther was based for calling out the corruption of the papacy and staying true to his beliefs. The other one hates Martin Luther for being a reson of one and a half millenia of bloody religious strife in Europe.
>one and a half millenia of bloody religious strife in Europe Surely you mean half a millenia? Unless he time traveled and caused the Miaphysite split too at the council of chalcedon.
Probably the Church of the East split even before that as well
Look at it this way if we didn't fight over papal corruption we'd fight over the price of indulgences....
>yes the pope and the words of various men are somehow not false idols >yes I'm a christian pick one
Luther is like my favorite historical figure that was just a man. Sure, a lot of bad things did happen, but most importantly, we got back to scripture. The theology became based on the Bible instead of what ever the Pope came up with the previous morning. Christianity without him would be illogical insanity. Also by faith not works we get into heaven. So stop being a Catholic heretic
Imagine committing idolatry by worshipping the saints and gold figurines This post made by the Reformed Presbyterian gang
Luther anti-semitic?
Yeah he even wrote a whole book about
Pretty much everyone back then hated jews lol, they were treated like gypsy today
Yep
based and luther-pilled
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies
The Protestant reformation was something that needed to happen. On top of the extreme amount of corruption in the Catholic Church at the time, catholic teachings diverged greatly from biblical scripture as outlined by the 95 theses. And keep in mind the time period. Martin Luther was far from the only one outwardly expressing hatred for and calling for violence against Jews, Muslims, and “heretical” Christian denominations.
It's not even that the peasants didn't support the reform, they actually followed it trough thanks to one of Luther's disciples Thomas Müntzer and decided that if men were created equal by God then they could no longer live in servitude. Luther replied that freedom was only something they could do in their mind and had to wait for reward after this life and urged the nobles to pass them all by the sword and kill them like rabid dogs. It is theorized that up to a third of south Germany's population was murdered during the war.
He is Jan Hus part 2: the successful one.
If I'm not too late to this party... I've been a believer for about 15 years now. I was essentially non-denominational/Protestant, even though I found calling myself "Protestant" an odd title because I wasn't "protesting" the Catholic Church. But since I'm from the US, the options were basically Protestant or Catholic, which is really a choice others told me I had to make. I just wanted to follow Christ... But no one even mentioned the Eastern Orthodox Church. People always talk how the Protestant and Catholic Churches split because of Luther, but how many people (in North America and Western Europe anyway) talk about the splitting of the Western and Eastern churches, now called the Catholic and Orthodox churches? Virtually no one. In almost 15 years of studying theology I barely knew the Eastern Orthodox church even existed. If anyone is interested, [here is a lecture on the Protestant Reformation by an Orthodox priest.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piVdrtgo7Xw) [Part 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs0ExgnRMqc) Just my thoughts. I'm still learning and debating. No anger or hate. Still learning. Love you all, PCM. :)
Would have done himself a favour if he just looked into Orthodoxy instead of pressing Edit Mode
Man fuck Catholicism
A) suck it papists B) getting money by self proclaiming as a pastor is pretty dang lib-right imo
The C\*tholic church is so corrupt, it is insane. He was based for calling that out.