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Well if he’s a Dick fan, you’d put him as high as possible because he has by far the best VP ever so the presidency must be good. You also don’t want him the highest because then it’d be W’s credit not Dick’s. This is basically the rationale of this entire sub but replace W and Dick with JFK and LBJ.
Some coherent reasoning aside based lol. I have no problem if people dunk on FDR, Reagan or wanna defend Jackson or Wilson but I'm curious and appreciate some arguments as to why. Maybe I missed something and I'd bump him up in my tier list
Id argue the invasion of afghan was a success but we should have went the H W route and fucked up the people who harbored the 9/11 planners and left. Went in to get bin laden (try to find him by any means necessary) gloves off and left. The occupation never goes well, what a waste of money and life. Iraq invasion/occupation was obviously stupid.
The power of the Presidency was incredibly up to interpretation. Washington, albeit not ever being able to be an actual king, certainly had the opportunity to get more power for himself. Instead, he often put more power in those around him and Congress to make decisions to balance power. He generally did build the role and powers of the Presidency. He also created the way treaties are created and ratified.
Creating the Cabinet is also a big accomplishment to me
Washington basically built the revenue system we used for more than a century alongside Hamilton. Again, a huge accomplishment
Pushed through the Residency Act, establishing our Capitol
Attracted foreign investments into the economy through the Funding Act. Foreign investments were a huge reason for business expansion in the early period
Created our first centralized bank, fostering checks on speculation, counterfeiting, and monetary devaluing, which allowed for a period of mostly continuous growth until Jefferson’s embargo. Another huge accomplishment. Was also the same as the Second Bank, therefore setting the blueprint for another system that fostered nearly two decades of growth. Also created checks on inflation
Created a united American dollar through the Coinage Act. Another very underrated and huge accomplishment
Handled the Whiskey Rebellion excellently
His strong support of the Bill of Rights was also essential for it to pass
The Slave Trade Act of 1794
Setting the FP precedent of not intervening in European wars (mostly good)
The Jay Treaty. Another big accomplishment
Founded the American Navy
It also stems from this belief that 1790s politics was simpler and uncomplicated. Simpler? Yes. Uncomplicated? Absolutely not. Washington had a LOT of stuff on his plate like—oh I don’t know—establishing the world’s first modern republic?
>I don't know what he did as President.
I get that this whole post is either an inside joke I don't get or a troll post, but assuming you're serious, this statement should probably disqualify you from making a presidential tier list.
What part of not being dictator doesn’t seem notable to you?
Look at quite literally every Latin American nation and tell me your first president not being a dictator even when given the option isn’t the most important thing in your nations success
He chose *not* to be a dictator. Everyone at the time was willing to have him become a version of a king, but he decided to step down from power.
That act is what led to future “peaceful transfer of power” for every election. Imagine a world where he sets the precedent that he dies in office after serving for 20 years. It’s pretty fucking scary.
So no, he’s not a dictator. He’s the person who decided *not* to be a dictator.
I honestly may have seen even worse ones but this one's definitely up there. Coolidge in S and FDR in F was a dead giveaway, but the more I looked after that the worse it got still
Edit: Just noticed you have a Coolidge flair, props for still disliking that list!
I like Coolidge a fuckton (he's my personal favorite) but he is not better than FDR or Lincoln at all idk how the hell that person came to that conclusion.
FDR for me I kinda disagree with his New Deal policies but any negatives he has are overwhelmed by nothing but his absolutely spectacular WW2 leadership. Coolidge I like for being very hands offy with the government (which I am a really big fan of) and being quite socially liberal at a time he was, he oversaw a roaring economy and was the last president to lower the national debt.
That's fair. In my experience for most people who disagree with the New Deal that's enough to dislike FDR, plus the obvious negatives like internments camps. Personally I love the new deal though, I think that the most powerful people should use that power to help as many as they can instead of being "hands offy". I do like Coolidge being socially liberal, though
I knew he was full of crap when put Nixon in the same category as the founding fathers. And then I saw George W. Bush in A tier, a guy that started two foreign wars, destroyed a budget surplus, and created a financial crisis at the end of his term, that guy in A tier? How delusional can you be?!
I don't follow.
Your A tier choices scream Republican, then you have JFK in S tier.
Like, he's good, a solid high B to mid A, but S?
Oh and Washington in the B tier!
Yeah but didn't he also cause the missile crisis, are we going to give him that much credit for fixing his own fuck up.... actually now that I think a out it presidents never do that maybe you're into something
good list, but i have to agree, jfk is not s tier.
If he'd stayed alive to push through the CR act, set us on a better strategy in Vietnam, and won the bay of pigs invasion, then he would be an s tier president for sure
It’s weird to see someone whom I *consistently* disagree with in the comments post the same three S-tier presidents as I would.
That said, I’ll defend Kennedy as much as anyone, but he’s no S.
Hehe, you can't make a list like this based on political appointments alone. Ford had good intentions but he just didn't manage to succeed as President.
I think the fact that you're a European explains your love for Dubya and other interesting political opinions. You didn't really experience the consequences of his economic policies. You never had to see one of your family members sent to the Middle East. You weren't educated in the American Education system. You never voted, and probably never will vote in an American presidential election.
I'd assume you're a young guy who is still forming his political opinions, and that is completely okay.
Please, try doing some research based on independent unbiased sources on the internet. Washington is a national hero. Bush Jr. is average at best
You obviously never took a serious American history lesson. There are many good videos on YouTube on American history, if you are interested in this topic I'd suggest looking into it.
People hate George W. Bush over here. I have not met a single person in real life with a favorable view of him and in primary school we once had to do a play in which George W. Bush was a part and portrayed as a villain. In high school I had a teacher that only showed us pro-Obama material and anti-George W. Bush material when we were studying propaganda.
What consequences of his economic policies did I not experience? Are you talking about the 2007-2008 financial crisis, also known as the global financial crisis?
Sure, no family members of mine was sent to the Middle East but Sweden did send troops to Afghanistan.
Get out of here with your patronizing and condescending tone because you disagree with my opinions.
Dude you put Washington, TR, Jefferson, Grant, Ike, and Clinton in the same row as Wilson, Jackson, and Nixon while having Obama below them all, and Dubya and Reagan above them
Hot take: y’all have a hard on for HW Bush. He did some good stuff, but was mostly unremarkable. HW over Grant (destroyed the KKK, oversaw ratification of the 15th amendment, expanded the civil service) is WILD. And that doesn’t even take into account his civil war accomplishments. Or Ike—advanced the interstate highway system, signed the civil rights act of 1957, ended the Korean War. This sub always places HW bush unreasonably high in its tier lists and I really don’t understand it.
Why would a one term president who ran one of the filthiest political campaigns in modern history (Willie Horton, anyone?) possibly rank above the first Supreme Allied Commander Europe in history?
EDIT: I didn’t even notice HW Bush above literal, actual fucking George Washington. What…?! 😭
John Adams stepping down peacefully after being beaten was more important for democracy than anything Washington did. John Adams was also anti-slavery.
Both Bushes are above Eisenhower because I don't like Eisenhower's hypocrisy and homophobia.
What's wrong with Ronald Reagan?
I would say it's not the worst thing I have ever seen. I have some questions though why Dubya in A and Washington B. Other than that I appreciate the A tier LBJ!
He defunded education and mental health services, which has led to long term effects in growing homelessness and poor people not being able to afford care
I love how a huge driver to the homeless epidemic in California can literally be traced to Reagan’s deinstitutionalization and republicans are like “ commiefornia “ is a shit hole!
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Bro kept fucking George w bush > ike. Flair definitely checks out.
I don't like Eisenhower too much. He was ok, but not more.
What is the argument for W Bush in A tier
Well if he’s a Dick fan, you’d put him as high as possible because he has by far the best VP ever so the presidency must be good. You also don’t want him the highest because then it’d be W’s credit not Dick’s. This is basically the rationale of this entire sub but replace W and Dick with JFK and LBJ.
owns defense stocks i bet or works in the sector. anyone putting obama that low is wrapped up too much in politics.
I own neither defense stocks nor do I work with anything related to it. I probably should have put Obama higher cause I like him a lot.
The same is true of people who dump on Bush.
depends how you feel about the war. that's a valid criticism.
Invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Great cabinet.
Were those invasions not ultimately failures?
This dude is Dick Cheney’s biggest fan. What do you expect?
Some coherent reasoning aside based lol. I have no problem if people dunk on FDR, Reagan or wanna defend Jackson or Wilson but I'm curious and appreciate some arguments as to why. Maybe I missed something and I'd bump him up in my tier list
Fair point.
Afghanistan was fine we just should not have stayed there for 20 years.
Afghanistan was a failure, but not because of Bush. Iraq was built on a lie, but it was not a failure.
That’s where you lose me. I’m sorry but Rare Mesyush L
Let us agree to disagree.
Sure
Id argue the invasion of afghan was a success but we should have went the H W route and fucked up the people who harbored the 9/11 planners and left. Went in to get bin laden (try to find him by any means necessary) gloves off and left. The occupation never goes well, what a waste of money and life. Iraq invasion/occupation was obviously stupid.
i mean, in iraq we deposed saddam and beat the insurgencies just took a while
What about Eisenhower don't you like?
He was a hypocrite and pushed very homophobic legislation.
He has spoken
Long time coming.
You are the unofficial owner of this subreddit
What's up with the OG [original George] being in B tier?
He made very good political appointments, oversaw a peaceful end of the cold war, managed to organize a big international coalition for the Gulf war.
I don't disagree with that at all. I'm talking about George Washington in B.
Can’t think of anything notable that guy did pretty forgettable president overall
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Man, I put Polk in A!
I never said it was ALL bad But Washington is in B, what do you want me to say?
What did Washington even do other than not being a dictator?
bro what?
I'm genuinely curious. I don't know what he did as President.
The power of the Presidency was incredibly up to interpretation. Washington, albeit not ever being able to be an actual king, certainly had the opportunity to get more power for himself. Instead, he often put more power in those around him and Congress to make decisions to balance power. He generally did build the role and powers of the Presidency. He also created the way treaties are created and ratified. Creating the Cabinet is also a big accomplishment to me Washington basically built the revenue system we used for more than a century alongside Hamilton. Again, a huge accomplishment Pushed through the Residency Act, establishing our Capitol Attracted foreign investments into the economy through the Funding Act. Foreign investments were a huge reason for business expansion in the early period Created our first centralized bank, fostering checks on speculation, counterfeiting, and monetary devaluing, which allowed for a period of mostly continuous growth until Jefferson’s embargo. Another huge accomplishment. Was also the same as the Second Bank, therefore setting the blueprint for another system that fostered nearly two decades of growth. Also created checks on inflation Created a united American dollar through the Coinage Act. Another very underrated and huge accomplishment Handled the Whiskey Rebellion excellently His strong support of the Bill of Rights was also essential for it to pass The Slave Trade Act of 1794 Setting the FP precedent of not intervening in European wars (mostly good) The Jay Treaty. Another big accomplishment Founded the American Navy
…C’mon man. Even if that was all he did, that’s no insignificant feat.
It also stems from this belief that 1790s politics was simpler and uncomplicated. Simpler? Yes. Uncomplicated? Absolutely not. Washington had a LOT of stuff on his plate like—oh I don’t know—establishing the world’s first modern republic?
>I don't know what he did as President. I get that this whole post is either an inside joke I don't get or a troll post, but assuming you're serious, this statement should probably disqualify you from making a presidential tier list.
What part of not being dictator doesn’t seem notable to you? Look at quite literally every Latin American nation and tell me your first president not being a dictator even when given the option isn’t the most important thing in your nations success
He chose *not* to be a dictator. Everyone at the time was willing to have him become a version of a king, but he decided to step down from power. That act is what led to future “peaceful transfer of power” for every election. Imagine a world where he sets the precedent that he dies in office after serving for 20 years. It’s pretty fucking scary. So no, he’s not a dictator. He’s the person who decided *not* to be a dictator.
I know I’m in the minority but I actually think Polk is a tad overrated.
Careful, the Polk stans don’t like any hint of the Polk overrated talk
That’s true but there bound to be some reasonable people out there
Bro really put Washington in B tier 😭😭
Never been the biggest fan.
This is not great. But it is your list.
This is about what I would expect Definitely one of the tier lists of all time
You've officially done it. Made the worst tier list I've ever seen
Okay I hate that list but I've seen lists so, so much worse
Case in point: https://preview.redd.it/x4yktqgjwqpc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff6614e4e23981e41850e301a2955761b5c30b57
I honestly may have seen even worse ones but this one's definitely up there. Coolidge in S and FDR in F was a dead giveaway, but the more I looked after that the worse it got still Edit: Just noticed you have a Coolidge flair, props for still disliking that list!
I like Coolidge a fuckton (he's my personal favorite) but he is not better than FDR or Lincoln at all idk how the hell that person came to that conclusion.
FDR and Coolidge were kinda exact opposites ideologically, how come you like them both? (I'm not complaining, just curious)
FDR for me I kinda disagree with his New Deal policies but any negatives he has are overwhelmed by nothing but his absolutely spectacular WW2 leadership. Coolidge I like for being very hands offy with the government (which I am a really big fan of) and being quite socially liberal at a time he was, he oversaw a roaring economy and was the last president to lower the national debt.
That's fair. In my experience for most people who disagree with the New Deal that's enough to dislike FDR, plus the obvious negatives like internments camps. Personally I love the new deal though, I think that the most powerful people should use that power to help as many as they can instead of being "hands offy". I do like Coolidge being socially liberal, though
If I had Washington in S-tier you would say "Based Polk placement".
Polk is definitely an A-tier president. George Washington on the other hand, is the greatest president ever and deserves S-tier
Wait until this subreddit is finished ranking the presidents
I knew he was full of crap when put Nixon in the same category as the founding fathers. And then I saw George W. Bush in A tier, a guy that started two foreign wars, destroyed a budget surplus, and created a financial crisis at the end of his term, that guy in A tier? How delusional can you be?!
Read a book my brother.
Nah, the worst ones were from that Kenyon guy a few years back. He was an Andrew Johnson fan who put Lincoln in F-tier.
Half the takes are so good and half the takes are so bad, that's what I love to see!
Which is the worst and best take in your opinion?
In a Vacuum: Best Truman S tier, worst W A tier. Comparatively: Best FDR several tiers above Coolidge, worst W over Washington
GWB A tier has to be the most delusional take I’ve ever seen.
Taylor and Arthur in D. I expected better Dick.
W tierlist 👍 (I don't care about the placements. I just care that FDR is S tier and LBJ and H.W. A tier)
I don't follow. Your A tier choices scream Republican, then you have JFK in S tier. Like, he's good, a solid high B to mid A, but S? Oh and Washington in the B tier!
JFKs handling of the missile crisis alone solidifies him as the most important human to have ever lived.
If he hadn’t handled the Cuban missile crisis so well, there’d be no Reddit for people to be talking about him on, and we’d all be dead.
Yeah but didn't he also cause the missile crisis, are we going to give him that much credit for fixing his own fuck up.... actually now that I think a out it presidents never do that maybe you're into something
good list, but i have to agree, jfk is not s tier. If he'd stayed alive to push through the CR act, set us on a better strategy in Vietnam, and won the bay of pigs invasion, then he would be an s tier president for sure
You’re my favorite user (no bias at all)
Thank you Mr. President!
It’s weird to see someone whom I *consistently* disagree with in the comments post the same three S-tier presidents as I would. That said, I’ll defend Kennedy as much as anyone, but he’s no S.
And Dan Quayle is no Jack Kennedy!
Drugs are bad kids
I will choose to ignore everything except S-Tier Truman. BAAAASEEDDDD
Same here
The man himself has spoken. And I do agree with some of it. And I’m the biggest Dubya administration hater on here.
<3
I’m surprised I haven’t met you yet since I’m (probably) the biggest Dubya administration lover on here.
Exactly what I expected and nothing less! Truly based.
<3
Why Ford so low? He had Cheney as Chief of Staff!
Hehe, you can't make a list like this based on political appointments alone. Ford had good intentions but he just didn't manage to succeed as President.
BOOOO GEORGE TOO LOW
I'm surprised this isn't just Dick Cheney in all slots lol This is a very interesting take. May I ask why you put Truman in S?
He dropped the atomic bombs and he handled the beginning of the cold war impeccably.
Bush over Obama?
The original Obama!
crazy to see a neoconservative Cheney fan putting FDR in S tier, based?
I'm relatively to the left in economic questions and FDRs handling of ww2 is basically every neocons wet dream.
I’m not even American and I know this is wrong what the hell
There is no right or wrong regarding presidential rankings, only opinions.
Ba$ed Mesyush.
<3
W Bush is too high, he’s a B at best.
From Reagan to Obama, this feels like a spectrum of right-to-left presidents lol
John Adams A-tier? Not a bad list
John Adams is one of the most important people in American history.
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In all honesty I think I'm a bit to the left both socially and economically.
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Second option
At last some appropriately puts Coolidge where he belongs
The list of all time.
I'm honestly surprised you didn't put Dubya in S tier.
I don't think Washington is S tier either.
My homeboy.
Both Bushes above Washington, ain't no way
The Bushes actually did stuff. They didn't sit on their asses all day doing nothing like Washington.
I think the fact that you're a European explains your love for Dubya and other interesting political opinions. You didn't really experience the consequences of his economic policies. You never had to see one of your family members sent to the Middle East. You weren't educated in the American Education system. You never voted, and probably never will vote in an American presidential election. I'd assume you're a young guy who is still forming his political opinions, and that is completely okay. Please, try doing some research based on independent unbiased sources on the internet. Washington is a national hero. Bush Jr. is average at best You obviously never took a serious American history lesson. There are many good videos on YouTube on American history, if you are interested in this topic I'd suggest looking into it.
People hate George W. Bush over here. I have not met a single person in real life with a favorable view of him and in primary school we once had to do a play in which George W. Bush was a part and portrayed as a villain. In high school I had a teacher that only showed us pro-Obama material and anti-George W. Bush material when we were studying propaganda. What consequences of his economic policies did I not experience? Are you talking about the 2007-2008 financial crisis, also known as the global financial crisis? Sure, no family members of mine was sent to the Middle East but Sweden did send troops to Afghanistan. Get out of here with your patronizing and condescending tone because you disagree with my opinions.
Hurts to see Coolidge in C but good list, oh mighty Mesyush. Also bases Dubya in A.
Reagan in a is criminal. Harry Truman in s is correct.
I don’t despise LBJ but Washington below LBJ is schizo
One of the best tier lists I’ve ever seen here. Consider my hat doffed to you good sir
<3
Based. I disagree on some but I still overall respect your choices
Thank my man!
Damn. Those are my S tier presidents too. I like how you are unafraid to say so.
Of course man, got to be honest!
https://preview.redd.it/ud5q1dn0atpc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a23904ed062df41149a0ae5968519bd624b389d1
Hehe
This is definitely one of the lists of all time
This list is both the best and worst list Ive ever seen. Stier is spot on then atier is a dumpster fire.
I truly question W’s placement on this. He seemed like a decent guy who ruined most things he touched
Why reagan is that high?
I appreciate the consequences of his presidency.
Aids epidemy?
More could have been done.
You see, I’m fine with most of it apart from Ike
You're a man with predominantly good taste.
As are you!
Why are Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld not in S?
Hehe, don't be silly ;)
Putting both Bushs and Reagan in A tier tells you all you need to know about this list
Washington: B tier JFK: S tier Never cook again
There's a lot to unpack here, but I approve of where Harry is. Kinda surprised to see Coolidge in C.
Bush Jnr above Ike? Really? The Bush Jnr presidency just stumbled from stupid crisis to stupid crisis
Woodrow Wilson needs to be lower.
I’ve seen better list, but I’ve seen worse.
This is the damage Cheney has done to our countrymen’s minds
FDR ended the prohibition, I’m surprised you didn’t put him in F tier for that.
Where’s Dick Cheney?
Dubya above Washington 💀
Why Wilson and Nixon in B? Way too high
Mesyush don’t do my boy Grant like that 😭
Bro loves war
Obama should be higher
-KKKenedey in S -Nixon, Clinton, and McKinley in B -Reagan and Dubya in A -Grant, Jefferson, Wilson and WASHINGTON below Adams What
So true King
Dude you put Washington, TR, Jefferson, Grant, Ike, and Clinton in the same row as Wilson, Jackson, and Nixon while having Obama below them all, and Dubya and Reagan above them
As a neocon I'd have thought you'd like Tyler since he oversaw the annexation of Texas
based calvin coolidge otherwise wtf is this
I like it, mostly. Not that much of a Kennedy person myself though, and Washington is way too low imo.
Obama in C, Reagan in A, and Kennedy in S. Why?
You did my boy Dirty.
Where is Donald?
George W Bush over George fucking Washington? Worst list ever.
Why did you give Teddy Roosevelt a ‘B’?
JQA on the same level S Jackson? Make it make sense!
Hot take: y’all have a hard on for HW Bush. He did some good stuff, but was mostly unremarkable. HW over Grant (destroyed the KKK, oversaw ratification of the 15th amendment, expanded the civil service) is WILD. And that doesn’t even take into account his civil war accomplishments. Or Ike—advanced the interstate highway system, signed the civil rights act of 1957, ended the Korean War. This sub always places HW bush unreasonably high in its tier lists and I really don’t understand it. Why would a one term president who ran one of the filthiest political campaigns in modern history (Willie Horton, anyone?) possibly rank above the first Supreme Allied Commander Europe in history? EDIT: I didn’t even notice HW Bush above literal, actual fucking George Washington. What…?! 😭
Having Roosevelt as B tier is a crime
u/Mesyush ha ha you like dick
Coolidge in C tier and Washington in B
Dude has an affinity for war criminals
No American President is a war criminal and you have no sources to prove otherwise.
My sources are the Iraq and Vietnam wars, unsure if you’ve ever heard of them
Sources about them being war criminals. I know very well that American Presidents have waged unpopular wars. But doing that is not a war crime.
John Adams.. over Washington? Bush above Eisenhower? On the same tier as Ronald REAGAN? This is bait, right?
John Adams stepping down peacefully after being beaten was more important for democracy than anything Washington did. John Adams was also anti-slavery. Both Bushes are above Eisenhower because I don't like Eisenhower's hypocrisy and homophobia. What's wrong with Ronald Reagan?
Ah, I see, so this is bait. You got me man. Nearly wrote up a paragraph.
Anything contrary to your opinion is bait right?
I would say it's not the worst thing I have ever seen. I have some questions though why Dubya in A and Washington B. Other than that I appreciate the A tier LBJ!
The audacity of putting Washington in B below the Bush's
Putting the George W Bush above Eisenhower is crazy same with putting Jackson above Obama
A fan of destabilizing third world countries I see
Reagan over Theodore is just a crime!!! Or even having Reagan listed high at all
Explain two things to me. Why should TR be above Reagan? Why shouldn't Reagan be high?
What no President Cheney on the list?
Hehe
This is the worst tier list ever and I agree with it
Reagan and GWB in A? Bro what
Explain to me why I should put him lower. Edit: I like Bush hehe
He defunded education and mental health services, which has led to long term effects in growing homelessness and poor people not being able to afford care
I love how a huge driver to the homeless epidemic in California can literally be traced to Reagan’s deinstitutionalization and republicans are like “ commiefornia “ is a shit hole!
Oh, I see. How awful. Would homelessness not exist today if Jimmy Carter won in 1980?
"exist" and "grow rampant" are two different things. All I know is Carter wouldn't have completely killed the Department of Education
Washington and Coolidge are in the same tier and lower than Woodrow Wilson is diabolical
Just no.
I’m gonna touch you
Honest question, are you 12?
I wish.