It's been going on for awhile--retrenchments of a few people every year, and this year the administration just decided to go whole-hog. We're an M2 (low number of masters degrees) regional public university. I was hoping to get through, but y'know, last hired first fired, and you can infer from that, I guess, how this university has been going--no hires in mathematics since 2002.
The university expanded to 18,000 students around 2010, and are now down to about half that. I think it's more bad planning than small size. But I'm a little bitter.
I hate to throw identifying info out there but would it be St. Cloud State? If it is and you don't want to move too far, I happen to know that Minnesota State, Mankato is looking for a Math and a Math & Stats person. I ALSO happen to know that Bethel University is looking for a Math person at an adjunct level, but I have heard that particular spot may not actually stay adjunct long.
I’m a labor economist and not a lawyer of any type, but I’m skeptical that a “last in first out” system is legal. It is not legal to discriminate on the basis of age against people over 40 and even if your institution’s policy is facially age-neutral I suspect that the result is discriminatory enough to be illegal.
Here’s a Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_Discrimination_in_Employment_Act_of_1967?wprov=sfti1#
Edit: Sorry, I read too fast and got “last in first out” backwards. Please ignore my comment :(
A last-in first-out system would favor older workers. Most of the people who are last-in are going to be under 40. If on occasion someone is over 40, that is not illegal because others with their amount of experience were also fired.
Last in first out is theoretically discriminatory to younger employees, not older. The 30 year old who just got their PhD and was hired last year would be fired before the 50+ year old who has been at the college for 20 years. In op's case the university has strangely not hired anyone new for 23 years, which throws an expected result off
It’s not strange if the university has been struggling for a long time. No money = no hires.
They were probably hoping they could reduce the Math Department size by just letting people retire without hiring new faculty. When that wasn’t enough, they took a more drastic measure.
It may depend the faculty contract, at my institution retrenchment is seniority based by department. So theoretically someone with 23yrs in another dept could be retrenched before the newest hire in our Comp Sci dept. because that’s how our contract reads.
I don't understand -- if you were trying to discriminate by age, wouldn't you do a *first* in, first out system? *Last* in means you fire the most recently hired, who is likely to be younger, no?
Thanks. It's hard right now. Didn't think I'd have to change jobs at this point in my life. Fortunately, our contract gives faculty with 20+ years three years of continued employment, so I don't have to go out on the market immediately, but it's still so hard.
I’d be more worried about your ‘not keeping up with the whole computer thing’.
Use this time to prep a new and innovative class you can sell. The world is not short of people who can teach algebra on the chalkboard.
It's off-topic, but I really love this line: "The world is not short of people who can teach algebra on the chalkboard."
I think I'll tailor it for my own purposes because I find it astounding how resistant to self-improvement so many people are.
> I find it astounding how resistant to self-improvement so many people are.
These jobs demand every minute of time from some of us... I can barely find time to exercise if I want to do my job well and also see my kids. I code for a living, but learning a new skill like GIS is something I'd love to do but just don't have the time for at the moment.
I can’t speak to math in particular, but in my field computer-based skills are at saturation and not the way to stand out. Sure; you need to be know how to use the tools, but it’s not a selling point. You’d need so much depth to stand out on the job market (working with machine learning vs I can use python and R!). I’d ask OP if there is a theoretical area they’d find more traction with.
A math professor that can teach using excel/R/Python for an intro stats course is a nightmare to find on the job market but massively useful. That’s where my mind went for OP. There are other options (financial modeling) but that one is easiest and in highest demand.
As a member of a hiring committee, we don't care (and it would be illegal to consider it). If you can show that you have kept up with the field, you should have no problem. You might even have an advantage due to your experience.
Oh yeah. Where I am there’s a good chance of getting a pay increase. The part to fight for is making sure the local school district credits you with years of teaching for the pay scale.
Even starting at 10 years (step 10, ish, the most I've personally seen credited for) with a PHD might be pretty substantial depending on where in the world OP is. Blue state that pays teachers well would be significant, red state with low teacher pay wouldn't be worth it, probably.
My red state pays a decent premium for PhDs in their pay scale, though I have no idea how they treat higher ed teaching experience on the scale compared to K-12 experience.
I was going to say this. In my area, there are some high schools with lots of PhDs and they pay more than college profs. (Look into private schools too).
You know, my no-name regional university in the middle of nowhere but with a great, functional culture and admin may be doing a math retirement replacement hire next year. If that sounds remotely interesting, DM me for more info.
I am a statistician that recently took a government job after over a decade in the corporate rat race.
Pay is a lot lower, but quality of life and stability are high. Benefits are obscene compared to what I had in the private sector.
Even though there is bureaucracy and there are some tedious limitations, the work is interesting and novel. I actually can make a difference with my skills, rather than just being another number cruncher shouting into the wind.
You will be astounded at the number of accomplished, highly people that permeate even the lower levels of government. The stereotype of a lazy, incompetent government grunt is horribly outdated.
And depending on your area of Math, banks and financial institutions hire math PhDs. I know a PhD math couple who both got high earning jobs with banks. Something to do with algorithms lol...
Those interviews are tough. The coding interview hiring bar is higher than say google or Amazon. I went through a couple rounds with citadel, but I failed some of the coding rounds. So close to 800k
Yeah, 20 years ago I was thinking of bailing on being a professor and getting a Masters of Financial Engineering, so I know some 20-years-old basics; I'd really have to up my programming skills (as others have noted) for that trend.
This is horrendous. You will find something. If you enjoy teaching at any level, look at private high schools, boarding schools. Some public school districts pay very well for mathematics, but you are teaching high school students either way. Private often pays well. They usually look to placement agencies. Carney Sandoe is one, but I'd seek advice. The other market (this will kill you) is administration. If you are flexible about where you can live, there are plenty of admin jobs out there. I daresay, you might keep an eye out at your own institution. I am so sorry. If you have a union, I hope in the course of the three years you may have, that you can fight this.
Thanks--these are some good ideas. I don't have a huge amount of flexibility in where I can live, but I'm not too far away from the Twin Cities, and there are possibilities there, both in admin and in private schools.
A quick search reveals just one high-school math job in private schools near the Twin Cities: [https://careers.nais.org/jobs?keywords=math&place=minnesota](https://careers.nais.org/jobs?keywords=math&place=minnesota)
It's for a science teacher at a private Catholic school (the other one at that link is for a lower-school part-time position).
You may have to move. Granted, you have three years, but you should definitely keep it on the table.
I'm so sorry that this is happening to you.
I have a former teacher and current graduate student. However, I am subbing right now as I look for work in my career field. If you can operate a class in Canvas/Blackboard, technology in a public school is not too hard. Schools can't find math teachers in many areas. The student's behavior is awful!
There are several Associate Prof Math positions available in the twin cities area: [Here's one] (https://jobs.socialstudies.org/jobs/19959836/mathematics-statistics-assistant-associate-professor?utm_campaign=google_jobs_apply&utm_source=google_jobs_apply&utm_medium=organic & ) and [here's another](https://jobs.chronicle.com/job/37646595/assistant-professor-of-mathematics/) although not at the right rank...apply anyway in case there's the option to hire a the Associate level
Yeah, I've been looking at that. I've got three more years here, and then four more years to get to 65, so stringing together some fixed term positions/Visiting Assistant Professor gigs might be feasible.
The private schools I'm familiar with pay poverty wages; most teachers are married to people who make more money. I guess elite schools in major metros or boarding schools pay more.
Elite. On the east coast, there are definitely higher paying privates. Excluding Catholic schools and such. I had a colleague who retired early from Comp Sci at a community college and now is earning well over her salary at the CC, which was a good salary, teaching at an elite day prep in Florida. She loves it. But sure, ymmv.
Yeah here in the South there are private schools that are socially elite but not academically elite, at least not any better than the better public schools. Some teachers accept the lower pay as a tradeoff for fewer troubled students and behavior problems.
I'm so sorry! Did they let you know how long your health benefits will last? That would be an important question to get answered ASAP.
You might want to take a look at your social security statement and see how much you would get at 62.
Then figure out how much you need, truly need, to bring in every month to get by until you hit that age.
Also, remember at 59 1/2 if you have a 401k or ira, you can start taking money out without penalty.
The above, of course, is worse case scenario and what we faced when my late 50+ partner got laid off. They ended up getting another full-time job, but it relieved a little bit of stress to have a "if worse.
comes to worse this is how we'll make it," strategy.
Finally, by chance you are still looking in the fall, consider substitute teaching to bring in some money. In our neck of the woods subbing at Catholic schools is very popular as there are rarely behavior problems to deal with.
Truly sending good thoughts for you your way. I'm so sorry this happened.
Thanks so much! I have three years (because we have a good union), so nothing happens immediately. I'll have health benefits for at least that long--I guess I'll move up my knee replacement surgery. I have to consider lots of stuff I've never thought about, and the idea of a worst-case plan seems like a good way to minimize the psychological heaviness.
So glad you have 3 years! Yes, I would get every medical procedure done, get new glasses, take care of dental work, etc!!
Ideally you'll learn something up well before the 3 years are up. But if not? Yes the worst case scenario backup plan let you know that you will be okay!
The community colleges in Washington State partner with the Department of Corrections to bring college classes to inmates (I don't know if this is national). However, inmates are not allowed internet access. The instructors must run classes 'old school' and without computers. This might fit your comfort level.
With math, all those service/general education courses should be a firewall to budget crises. If they're gutting the math department, chances are good all the vice presidents of nothing will be turning out the lights soon as the last ones out the door.
No it's not. The general education requirement can be met by the econ dept's "Personal Finance" course, and some other departments have set up "math-lite" gen eds, so that hurts. And a lot of the science departments (not physics or chemistry, nor engineering) have moved away from requiring calculus, which also cuts into the service component.
You can be certified as an actuary based on exams. A way to inquire is from firms that employ actuaries and https://www.beanactuary.org/what-is-an-actuary/what-do-we-do/
By reputation actuaries are highly satisfied with employment. Timeframe for certification exams seems to align with employment timeframe. Good luck with everything. I hope you find the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.
I'm so sorry. It happened to me two years ago. I was 58 and really thought it was the job I would retire from. I was able to find another teaching job, but it meant relocating and taking a pay cut. I hope things work out for you. It sucks.
I feel for you! I'm in exactly that state--I thought I would retire here in 7 years. After a day of talking to people, I've calmed down a bit, and I think I'll be able to find enough local jobs to stay here, which is my top goal. I hope things have worked out okay for you these past two years, though.
Thanks. My new job has its advantages - better health insurance, better retirement plan, and I get to teach more advanced courses. And the location isn't bad. But I wouldn't have chosen to move here if I wasn't desperate for a job.
Very hard to get hired in mathematics at a CC in my state. They eliminated pre transfer level mathematics and are trying to remove precalculus. This is California leading a push for equity, supposedly, but the result has been horrible for teachers and students. I would not advise someone to enter CC math until it is clear that this trend is not going to spread to the other blue states and lay off a ton more people.
A lot of the CC's around here (I think--I'll have to check in more detail) seem to work on the "a few career professors, lots of adjuncts" model. I don't know how many openings there'll be.
Our particular CC doesn't have that issue because all the adjuncts got let go over this legislation. They're even talking about pink slipping tenured (not even TT) faculty. It's a bad time to be in ed. I'm so sorry you got laid off.
If you're open to catching up with the computer thing, there are opportunities with mathematical modeling and forecasting. Finance, insurance, "AI", consulting, all open to you. If you would consider being an actuary, you might already know all the math for it.
Do you know at least xlookup in Excel? A lot of people do not even know vlookup and they make a good amount of money using Excel.
Yeah, I'm pretty good with Excel, some R and some Python. Used to be good with C thirty years ago. Sharpening all this seems to be the most likely thing to do.
I’m so sorry to hear this. There are a bunch of coaches on LinkedIn to help with transitioning into something else. Ashley ruba is an example, so if you start there you might find someone who can help with your background and ambitions (she comes from psych and went into tech).
but first, really, it’s ok to grieve and be in shock. How upsetting.
Indian River State College in Florida is hiring multiple math faculty for Fall: https://irsc.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External/job/Fort-Pierce-FL/Master-Instructor---Mathematics_R3976?q=Math
Private tutor is probably a good option -- especially for middle and high-school kids. I made $30/hour when I was an undergrad -- and minimum wage was around $6/hour then. These days, rich parents will pay anything to give their kids a leg up in college admissions.
Work is gonna be pretty boring though.
That's a thought! My students keep asking me if I know any good tutors; tutoring rich kids can't be much worse than teaching, right? (that's meant as a bit of a joke, I guess)
I actually liked tutoring quite a bit. You never know what kind of problems you are going to be asked to help someone with. And, because you are working one-on-one, you get to know the students better than you would if they were in a large class.
>who hasn't really kept up with the whole computer thing
If you have the desire/inclination, don't let this stop you. If you're off work and can devote 4-6 hours per day to working at it, you can transition fast, and it is FUN. Mathematics and Computer Science are like olympic speed skating and hockey.
And if you're a good mathematician, you know how to teach yourself. And there are more resources out there than ever. Computer science is just a specialization of math.
I’m really sorry. Do you know about NAIS?
https://careers.nais.org/jobs/?keywords=Math&place=
Some schools offer entry level undergraduate courses, so it might not be too big of a shift.
I feel you.
I have a PhD in math. Where I live (Alberta, Canada) that's not exactly a high-demand degree.
All the best to you! Let me know what you end up doing.
> that's not exactly a high-demand degree.
Not in and of itself, for sure. But if you're willing to put yourself through a little more training (whose difficulty pales in comparison to what you've already done), you can make yourself extremely marketable very quickly.
On another thread, an economist professor suggested Googling "PhD Recruiters" to find remote opportunities.
Check it out to see if there's anything of interest.
Sorry to hear this. I've often wondered what I will do if (when) something similar happens to me. I've started to keep a list of the types of jobs our recent grads have been able to land. Obviously some of those jobs aren't the best fit given experience and expectations, but many do end up making more money than our faculty ...
Yeah, I know. One of our students landed a 6 figure job with a video game company. It's a little amazing. But most of our grads pretty quickly find jobs as analysts of one type or another, so that seems to be a possibility.
I’m truly sorry. This has been my fear for the last few years, and I’m moving on this summer before it happens. I’m leaving a job and an area I truly love, but if I don’t do this now, I fear I’m going to be desperately looking for a stopgap in a few years.
What a horrible situation you are in. I extend my deepest sympathies. This profession we chose is in some truly hard times.
I'm a mid-50's mathematician PhD at a community college in California. I would say come on out here, but California is going through some crazy assed BS with politicians getting into what's best for the student and the math faculty across the state up in arms. But! Do check out the community colleges, even for part time work. Depending on the state, part time pay can be quite good. (My school pays $116-$157 per hour for part time work.)
This. There are a LOT more community colleges out there as there is a lot more need for that level of education. One can make a reasonable living and have a good work-life balance there.
Going to throw this out there, check out slot machine companies. Many tech companies are remote and slot machine companies require math PhDs to ensure they are hitting their required %ages. They pay really well tol.
Were you tenured? In my math department tenure hires are not a priority right now but we can't hire instructors fast enough. If you like teaching, there are universities and CCs that will be looking to snap you up.
I've been told I'm a very good teacher, both by students and colleagues. Any kind of full-time instructor thing would be great, so I'm definitely looking at that.
I've heard good things about community colleges. Pay cut isn't so much the issue, it's more health insurance. I've got bad knees and some sort of arthritis; these can be pretty expensive.
There is a huge teacher shortage. And we need more Dual Credit faculty in every h.s., especially Math.
Get your high school certification from the state. Then, get hired on with the school district and teach Dual Credit classes. The salaries are better. Your retirement transfers over and doesn't skip a beat. The job is easier. DC kids are phenomenal. And overall you'll find nicer people to work with.
I'm sorry this happened to you. Hang in there. You are still needed, wanted and valuable. Screw them. It's ok to start over as many times as it takes to find an environment where you thrive!
(9 yrs post secondary, and now 6 as Dual Credit faculty)
I'm former faculty in math in what I suspect is the same system where you were at. I would start by looking at the community colleges and heading to the cities. Job searching is tough right now. Let me know if there's anything I can help with.
Sounds good. Again, let me know if there's anything I can help with.
Also, I was just reminded... I once asked my department chair how many applications they received for a math faculty position within the CC system; this was 1-2 years pre-pandemic. I was told it was something like 120 of them. So be aware that I suspect the CC jobs are highly competitive, especially in math (though it would be nice to have continuity of benefits). If you're feeling ambitious, you could try to get a MS CS started and finished as I've heard there's a shortage of qualified faculty with that credential.
The local R1 I've worked there too (albeit not as faculty): their retirement benefit is probably the best in the public sector in the state. You're vested immediately and you contribute 5.5% while the R1 contributes 10%. If you have a PhD and can deal with the research aspect, that's an option I'd look into as well.
Healthcare does seem to be a big thing ; some colleagues of mine who were retrenched earlier have moved into that, outside of academia. It's strange, but this has shown me that I have a stronger network than I had ever thought.
That sucks. Also, how will they have a math department in 5 years if you're the newest hire?
As for finding a job... have you considered moving to Florida?
It's not at all clear that they'll have a math dept; they got rid of Physics but kept one professor to run the physics classes that the engineers and other science majors need.
No. One thing you must have are adequate computer skills because of blackboard, canvas, AP, etc.
Every semester sometime new and more difficult.
I think you will find a position: broaden your horizons. Hard to believe they fired a Professor. I don't think age is the issue.
Good luck!
My advice would be to start learning the “computer thing”.
While now isn’t exactly the best time to get a tech job either, it’s better to have more opportunities in the future than put all your eggs in one basket. Any job outside of academia will likely require computers on some level, so best to start learning now.
Also, computers have in general gotten a lot more accessible in the last 20 years. Don’t let all the hype intimidate you. Start with learning some basic Python and data science applications.
Trust me, this is something most mathematicians can easily pick up.
Yeah--I was good at C 30 years ago, and a little UNIX, and I know some R and Python. Moving to data science and contract work seems like feasible possibility.
This is terrible. As someone in my 50s who just successfully secured a position, you will have to work on your online skills (to include teaching). All of my first round interviews and 80% of my second round (including teaching demos) were all done either with zoom or WebEx. It was nerve wracking. I am returning to the classroom after retiring 5 years ago and it was the biggest hurdle. Fortunately, there are tons of resources for those of us that have fallen a bit behind. If I can do it, so can you! Good luck!!
Wow, congrats on getting a position in your fifties! That's great!
Due to the pandemic, I've had to do a lot of online teaching and I think I'm pretty good at it--maybe finding online teaching would be possible.
I’m so sorry that this happened. I wish you the best.
Here is my two cents: try tutoring websites! Many of them are often hiring. I work for a number of tutoring companies and can find part-time/independent contract work super easily! I know it’s not full-time; but I find it fantastic as a side hustle or a way to cobble together something that is akin to full-time!
I guess the natural path is to try and become data scientist or data engineer if your trying to keep up with the computer thing. The job market for programming jobs is about as bad as its ever been right now though, but a phd in math is pretty valueable.
Yeah, it sucks. My friend who worked at your institution until last week got fired 10-ish months ago, I think. I dunno WTF they are doing.
Good luck with your job search.
I know of multiple PhD / post doc / Adjunct friends of mine who have been doing part time work in AI advisory that pays as good if not better than their normal work.
Feel free to reach out if you’d like me to put you in touch!
I work at a high school and adjunct at a college. It's not bad to teach upper level math classes at the high school level and intro classes at the college. I'm near Houston, so my base high school pay is 65k, plus I get extra pay for the college classes. It's probably not ideal for you, but it's a low cost of living area and I live pretty well. The only two drawbacks are: I don't have a lot of time for research and I have to personally deal with high school discipline (even those students who aren't mine). In my case, I chose this particular area of education because I believed that it's where I would have the maximum return.
I just read that you have three years! Grind leetcode and hackerrank to beef up your software skills and apply in software for baking/finance. Alternatively, there's a massive market for cyber security experts. If you're good at number theory/discrete math, this might be an area in which you can really excel. You have the time to get the necessary certifications and should have a great job before the 3 years is up.
Yep! That definitely seems to be the strongest possibility. I'm still hoping some billionaire wants to drop 100k a year for me to churn out some complex analysis results, though.
If you need to learn some quick computer skills, check out your local or an online community college. Their programs are designed to skill people up quickly!
If you’re an American citizen I can refer you in the defense industry. You’d be a good fit systems and software engineering roles.
I have a math phd and became a software engineer. Decent pay, chill hours. Minimal possibility of layoff with a security clearance.
For defense, the programming interviews are pretty simple. Know how loops, oop, and your favorite sorting algorithm works and you’re golden.
For systems roles, you’ll likely be asked more math/physics based questions and likely nothing about programming. Wouldn’t hurt to learn how radar works if you’re targeting systems roles. I got asked if I knew how to compute convolutions and Fourier series so it’s pretty straight forward if you’re a mathematician.
Depending on your experience, you may able to join as a manager (systems, software, or program) and worry much less about the programming/tool skills.
Were you tenured? They fired some tenured faculty at my university this year but had to get rid of while departments in order to do it. Full time instructors were all out on 1-year contracts so they could be fired easily and I am sure many are not getting rehired next year
In Tennessee, you’ll get hired in any public high school district. Even in a small, rural district, you’ll make $65k with a doctorate. And many districts are offering math teachers signing bonuses and inflated salaries.
From the perspective of a student, you need to get rid of that "I'm old and I can't learn" mentality for computers, if you can post on reddit you can learn your way around computers. It'll make you significantly more marketable.
Best of luck! Y'know, 10 years ago I thought the university would've turned into an all-online university by now, but it looks like they'll try to keep some physical presence. At least the strategic plan for the campus looks pretty.
I'm so sorry, and that really sucks.
As you regroup and look for work, maybe look at some of the free online resources for catching up with the whole 'computer thing' ? there is so much out there for AI literacy, digital literacy etc. for your general knowledge or for your resume?
Your teaching skills should be very transferable, which is an asset.
My kid's math tutor is a retired engineering professor - if you need an income to survive in the short term, maybe that's an option for you? He gets $65 an hour. It is less if you're with an agency or a tutoring franchise (which charge students much more but take a huge cut). Just avoid the cheating sites, those aren't good.
Data Science. There are programs like Insight Data Science that train you and help you find a job at a top company. They only take people with PhDs. I’ve worked with a few people from there and they were simply excellent.
Yeah, I might spend the next few years taking some Data Science courses here (I've got three years before I get kicked out) and see what happens. Maybe the Minnesota Twins are hiring? That'd be a dream job...
Sorry. First of all you weren't fired; sounds like you were laid off. Employers make a distinction on that.
What about insurance companies? They need actuaries.
I’m so so sorry. Was this something that was anticipated, or did it just come out of the blue? Just awful, I’m sorry.
It's been going on for awhile--retrenchments of a few people every year, and this year the administration just decided to go whole-hog. We're an M2 (low number of masters degrees) regional public university. I was hoping to get through, but y'know, last hired first fired, and you can infer from that, I guess, how this university has been going--no hires in mathematics since 2002.
Fire the administrators! They teach no one and just suck tuition money, save for a few gems many are useless and do this crap.
Absolutely. Administrative bloat is the ultimate 'efficiency'.
omg how the number of VP’s at our university keeps increasing…. They’re like fucking gremlins or something.
It really tough right now at smaller universities.
The university expanded to 18,000 students around 2010, and are now down to about half that. I think it's more bad planning than small size. But I'm a little bitter.
I hate to throw identifying info out there but would it be St. Cloud State? If it is and you don't want to move too far, I happen to know that Minnesota State, Mankato is looking for a Math and a Math & Stats person. I ALSO happen to know that Bethel University is looking for a Math person at an adjunct level, but I have heard that particular spot may not actually stay adjunct long.
Yeah it is, and I am looking into Mankato; fingers crossed for that.
Let us know if you land it!
I’m a labor economist and not a lawyer of any type, but I’m skeptical that a “last in first out” system is legal. It is not legal to discriminate on the basis of age against people over 40 and even if your institution’s policy is facially age-neutral I suspect that the result is discriminatory enough to be illegal. Here’s a Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_Discrimination_in_Employment_Act_of_1967?wprov=sfti1# Edit: Sorry, I read too fast and got “last in first out” backwards. Please ignore my comment :(
Last in first out is less likely to be age discriminatory than first in first out. Right? I’m actually surprised that a 23-year hire is last in.
Sorry, I read too fast and got “last in first out” backwards. Please ignore my comment :(
A last-in first-out system would favor older workers. Most of the people who are last-in are going to be under 40. If on occasion someone is over 40, that is not illegal because others with their amount of experience were also fired.
Sorry, I read too fast and got “last in first out” backwards. Please ignore my comment :(
ahh okay
Last in first out is theoretically discriminatory to younger employees, not older. The 30 year old who just got their PhD and was hired last year would be fired before the 50+ year old who has been at the college for 20 years. In op's case the university has strangely not hired anyone new for 23 years, which throws an expected result off
Sorry, I read too fast and got “last in first out” backwards. Please ignore my comment :(
It’s not strange if the university has been struggling for a long time. No money = no hires. They were probably hoping they could reduce the Math Department size by just letting people retire without hiring new faculty. When that wasn’t enough, they took a more drastic measure.
That's what happened. When I was hired, there were 15 people in the department. When I leave, there will be 6.
It may depend the faculty contract, at my institution retrenchment is seniority based by department. So theoretically someone with 23yrs in another dept could be retrenched before the newest hire in our Comp Sci dept. because that’s how our contract reads.
I don't understand -- if you were trying to discriminate by age, wouldn't you do a *first* in, first out system? *Last* in means you fire the most recently hired, who is likely to be younger, no?
Sorry, I read too fast and got “last in first out” backwards. Please ignore my comment :(
You'll need to explain to me why you think "last in first out" is age discriminatory.
Sorry, I read too fast and got “last in first out” backwards. Please ignore my comment :(
Sorry to hear that! Were you tenured?
So sorry. That's devastating
Thanks. It's hard right now. Didn't think I'd have to change jobs at this point in my life. Fortunately, our contract gives faculty with 20+ years three years of continued employment, so I don't have to go out on the market immediately, but it's still so hard.
Start applying as soon as you can, though. It’s rough out there.
Yeah, I know. I wonder how much hiring committees take age into account?
I’d be more worried about your ‘not keeping up with the whole computer thing’. Use this time to prep a new and innovative class you can sell. The world is not short of people who can teach algebra on the chalkboard.
It's off-topic, but I really love this line: "The world is not short of people who can teach algebra on the chalkboard." I think I'll tailor it for my own purposes because I find it astounding how resistant to self-improvement so many people are.
> I find it astounding how resistant to self-improvement so many people are. These jobs demand every minute of time from some of us... I can barely find time to exercise if I want to do my job well and also see my kids. I code for a living, but learning a new skill like GIS is something I'd love to do but just don't have the time for at the moment.
When you have spent 23 years doing the same, feeling comfortable, it would be odd for a proactive change on that all off a sudden
I can’t speak to math in particular, but in my field computer-based skills are at saturation and not the way to stand out. Sure; you need to be know how to use the tools, but it’s not a selling point. You’d need so much depth to stand out on the job market (working with machine learning vs I can use python and R!). I’d ask OP if there is a theoretical area they’d find more traction with.
A math professor that can teach using excel/R/Python for an intro stats course is a nightmare to find on the job market but massively useful. That’s where my mind went for OP. There are other options (financial modeling) but that one is easiest and in highest demand.
I'm a little shocked that this is where the bar is.
Math is notoriously difficult to find applied people to teach.
As a member of a hiring committee, we don't care (and it would be illegal to consider it). If you can show that you have kept up with the field, you should have no problem. You might even have an advantage due to your experience.
Look into what it takes to certify at the high school level. I got certified just in case. I’m so sorry.
Pays more for math faculty in my area as well.
Oh yeah. Where I am there’s a good chance of getting a pay increase. The part to fight for is making sure the local school district credits you with years of teaching for the pay scale.
Even starting at 10 years (step 10, ish, the most I've personally seen credited for) with a PHD might be pretty substantial depending on where in the world OP is. Blue state that pays teachers well would be significant, red state with low teacher pay wouldn't be worth it, probably.
Better than being unemployed.
My red state pays a decent premium for PhDs in their pay scale, though I have no idea how they treat higher ed teaching experience on the scale compared to K-12 experience.
I was going to say this. In my area, there are some high schools with lots of PhDs and they pay more than college profs. (Look into private schools too).
That is a good idea!
You know, my no-name regional university in the middle of nowhere but with a great, functional culture and admin may be doing a math retirement replacement hire next year. If that sounds remotely interesting, DM me for more info.
The government takes forever, but math nerds are always welcome. Keep your head up. https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?l=&k=Math
Hadn't even thought of that! Good idea!
I call my agency the pasture. Many of my coworkers came from academia, and now we spend our golden years in public service.
State government as well, if St. Paul is in range.
I am a statistician that recently took a government job after over a decade in the corporate rat race. Pay is a lot lower, but quality of life and stability are high. Benefits are obscene compared to what I had in the private sector. Even though there is bureaucracy and there are some tedious limitations, the work is interesting and novel. I actually can make a difference with my skills, rather than just being another number cruncher shouting into the wind. You will be astounded at the number of accomplished, highly people that permeate even the lower levels of government. The stereotype of a lazy, incompetent government grunt is horribly outdated.
And depending on your area of Math, banks and financial institutions hire math PhDs. I know a PhD math couple who both got high earning jobs with banks. Something to do with algorithms lol...
Those interviews are tough. The coding interview hiring bar is higher than say google or Amazon. I went through a couple rounds with citadel, but I failed some of the coding rounds. So close to 800k
Quants. I wanted to do that.
Yeah, 20 years ago I was thinking of bailing on being a professor and getting a Masters of Financial Engineering, so I know some 20-years-old basics; I'd really have to up my programming skills (as others have noted) for that trend.
This is horrendous. You will find something. If you enjoy teaching at any level, look at private high schools, boarding schools. Some public school districts pay very well for mathematics, but you are teaching high school students either way. Private often pays well. They usually look to placement agencies. Carney Sandoe is one, but I'd seek advice. The other market (this will kill you) is administration. If you are flexible about where you can live, there are plenty of admin jobs out there. I daresay, you might keep an eye out at your own institution. I am so sorry. If you have a union, I hope in the course of the three years you may have, that you can fight this.
Thanks--these are some good ideas. I don't have a huge amount of flexibility in where I can live, but I'm not too far away from the Twin Cities, and there are possibilities there, both in admin and in private schools.
A quick search reveals just one high-school math job in private schools near the Twin Cities: [https://careers.nais.org/jobs?keywords=math&place=minnesota](https://careers.nais.org/jobs?keywords=math&place=minnesota) It's for a science teacher at a private Catholic school (the other one at that link is for a lower-school part-time position). You may have to move. Granted, you have three years, but you should definitely keep it on the table. I'm so sorry that this is happening to you.
Yes, being willing to move can turn stuff like this into a temporary setback rather than the end of a career.
I have a former teacher and current graduate student. However, I am subbing right now as I look for work in my career field. If you can operate a class in Canvas/Blackboard, technology in a public school is not too hard. Schools can't find math teachers in many areas. The student's behavior is awful!
There are several Associate Prof Math positions available in the twin cities area: [Here's one] (https://jobs.socialstudies.org/jobs/19959836/mathematics-statistics-assistant-associate-professor?utm_campaign=google_jobs_apply&utm_source=google_jobs_apply&utm_medium=organic & ) and [here's another](https://jobs.chronicle.com/job/37646595/assistant-professor-of-mathematics/) although not at the right rank...apply anyway in case there's the option to hire a the Associate level
Yeah, I've been looking at that. I've got three more years here, and then four more years to get to 65, so stringing together some fixed term positions/Visiting Assistant Professor gigs might be feasible.
The private schools I'm familiar with pay poverty wages; most teachers are married to people who make more money. I guess elite schools in major metros or boarding schools pay more.
Elite. On the east coast, there are definitely higher paying privates. Excluding Catholic schools and such. I had a colleague who retired early from Comp Sci at a community college and now is earning well over her salary at the CC, which was a good salary, teaching at an elite day prep in Florida. She loves it. But sure, ymmv.
Yeah here in the South there are private schools that are socially elite but not academically elite, at least not any better than the better public schools. Some teachers accept the lower pay as a tradeoff for fewer troubled students and behavior problems.
I'm so sorry! Did they let you know how long your health benefits will last? That would be an important question to get answered ASAP. You might want to take a look at your social security statement and see how much you would get at 62. Then figure out how much you need, truly need, to bring in every month to get by until you hit that age. Also, remember at 59 1/2 if you have a 401k or ira, you can start taking money out without penalty. The above, of course, is worse case scenario and what we faced when my late 50+ partner got laid off. They ended up getting another full-time job, but it relieved a little bit of stress to have a "if worse. comes to worse this is how we'll make it," strategy. Finally, by chance you are still looking in the fall, consider substitute teaching to bring in some money. In our neck of the woods subbing at Catholic schools is very popular as there are rarely behavior problems to deal with. Truly sending good thoughts for you your way. I'm so sorry this happened.
Thanks so much! I have three years (because we have a good union), so nothing happens immediately. I'll have health benefits for at least that long--I guess I'll move up my knee replacement surgery. I have to consider lots of stuff I've never thought about, and the idea of a worst-case plan seems like a good way to minimize the psychological heaviness.
So glad you have 3 years! Yes, I would get every medical procedure done, get new glasses, take care of dental work, etc!! Ideally you'll learn something up well before the 3 years are up. But if not? Yes the worst case scenario backup plan let you know that you will be okay!
If your university has tuition remission for faculty, take advantage of that and take dome courses maybe.
The community colleges in Washington State partner with the Department of Corrections to bring college classes to inmates (I don't know if this is national). However, inmates are not allowed internet access. The instructors must run classes 'old school' and without computers. This might fit your comfort level.
Interesting!
With math, all those service/general education courses should be a firewall to budget crises. If they're gutting the math department, chances are good all the vice presidents of nothing will be turning out the lights soon as the last ones out the door.
Great point. That place is clearly not trending well.
No it's not. The general education requirement can be met by the econ dept's "Personal Finance" course, and some other departments have set up "math-lite" gen eds, so that hurts. And a lot of the science departments (not physics or chemistry, nor engineering) have moved away from requiring calculus, which also cuts into the service component.
Very sorry. Hope things turn out ok.
Thanks! I'm sure things will eventually work out, it's just a shock right now.
You can be certified as an actuary based on exams. A way to inquire is from firms that employ actuaries and https://www.beanactuary.org/what-is-an-actuary/what-do-we-do/
Yes! I have run actuary-test prep courses for students here; getting certified as an actuary is high on my list.
By reputation actuaries are highly satisfied with employment. Timeframe for certification exams seems to align with employment timeframe. Good luck with everything. I hope you find the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.
That really sucks. My sincere sympathies.
Thanks! I appreciate it.
Idaho State University is in pretty desperate need of professors as a whole last I heard from some online friends who go there. Maybe look into there?
I'm so sorry. It happened to me two years ago. I was 58 and really thought it was the job I would retire from. I was able to find another teaching job, but it meant relocating and taking a pay cut. I hope things work out for you. It sucks.
I feel for you! I'm in exactly that state--I thought I would retire here in 7 years. After a day of talking to people, I've calmed down a bit, and I think I'll be able to find enough local jobs to stay here, which is my top goal. I hope things have worked out okay for you these past two years, though.
Thanks. My new job has its advantages - better health insurance, better retirement plan, and I get to teach more advanced courses. And the location isn't bad. But I wouldn't have chosen to move here if I wasn't desperate for a job.
I teach at a community college. Love it. Check them out in your area.
Very hard to get hired in mathematics at a CC in my state. They eliminated pre transfer level mathematics and are trying to remove precalculus. This is California leading a push for equity, supposedly, but the result has been horrible for teachers and students. I would not advise someone to enter CC math until it is clear that this trend is not going to spread to the other blue states and lay off a ton more people.
A lot of the CC's around here (I think--I'll have to check in more detail) seem to work on the "a few career professors, lots of adjuncts" model. I don't know how many openings there'll be.
Our particular CC doesn't have that issue because all the adjuncts got let go over this legislation. They're even talking about pink slipping tenured (not even TT) faculty. It's a bad time to be in ed. I'm so sorry you got laid off.
If you're open to catching up with the computer thing, there are opportunities with mathematical modeling and forecasting. Finance, insurance, "AI", consulting, all open to you. If you would consider being an actuary, you might already know all the math for it. Do you know at least xlookup in Excel? A lot of people do not even know vlookup and they make a good amount of money using Excel.
Yeah, I'm pretty good with Excel, some R and some Python. Used to be good with C thirty years ago. Sharpening all this seems to be the most likely thing to do.
Our Uni is looking for math Profs or Master's. DM me if you want to know.
Thanks!
I’m so sorry to hear this. There are a bunch of coaches on LinkedIn to help with transitioning into something else. Ashley ruba is an example, so if you start there you might find someone who can help with your background and ambitions (she comes from psych and went into tech). but first, really, it’s ok to grieve and be in shock. How upsetting.
Thanks! I will check that out! I don't even know how to figure out what my skills (if any) are.
You have many, I promise. She and others can help you identify and pitch them. even just following their posts is helpful and encouraging.
Indian River State College in Florida is hiring multiple math faculty for Fall: https://irsc.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External/job/Fort-Pierce-FL/Master-Instructor---Mathematics_R3976?q=Math
That really sucks. I'm sorry. Maybe look into teaching at private high schools, in addition to college positions.
Ugh, I’m so sorry! I wish you all the best.
I'm so sorry. That's really awful. I hope you rebound to an even better gig.
Thanks! I hope so too!
Private tutor is probably a good option -- especially for middle and high-school kids. I made $30/hour when I was an undergrad -- and minimum wage was around $6/hour then. These days, rich parents will pay anything to give their kids a leg up in college admissions. Work is gonna be pretty boring though.
That's a thought! My students keep asking me if I know any good tutors; tutoring rich kids can't be much worse than teaching, right? (that's meant as a bit of a joke, I guess)
I actually liked tutoring quite a bit. You never know what kind of problems you are going to be asked to help someone with. And, because you are working one-on-one, you get to know the students better than you would if they were in a large class.
>who hasn't really kept up with the whole computer thing If you have the desire/inclination, don't let this stop you. If you're off work and can devote 4-6 hours per day to working at it, you can transition fast, and it is FUN. Mathematics and Computer Science are like olympic speed skating and hockey. And if you're a good mathematician, you know how to teach yourself. And there are more resources out there than ever. Computer science is just a specialization of math.
I can attest to that. If you're good at math, you'll likely also be good at programming.
Definitely thinking along these lines. 30 years ago I was pretty good with C, and I have some R and Python skills already.
I’m so sorry! This is devastating. Sending good thoughts.
Thanks! Fortunately I have a steadfast partner whose shoulder I can weep on...
I’m really sorry. Do you know about NAIS? https://careers.nais.org/jobs/?keywords=Math&place= Some schools offer entry level undergraduate courses, so it might not be too big of a shift.
I hadn't seen that before! Thanks for the tip!
I feel you. I have a PhD in math. Where I live (Alberta, Canada) that's not exactly a high-demand degree. All the best to you! Let me know what you end up doing.
> that's not exactly a high-demand degree. Not in and of itself, for sure. But if you're willing to put yourself through a little more training (whose difficulty pales in comparison to what you've already done), you can make yourself extremely marketable very quickly.
Thanks!
On another thread, an economist professor suggested Googling "PhD Recruiters" to find remote opportunities. Check it out to see if there's anything of interest.
That's an interesting option! Something that's work from home would be ideal, even if it's a pay cut.
Sorry to hear this. I've often wondered what I will do if (when) something similar happens to me. I've started to keep a list of the types of jobs our recent grads have been able to land. Obviously some of those jobs aren't the best fit given experience and expectations, but many do end up making more money than our faculty ...
Yeah, I know. One of our students landed a 6 figure job with a video game company. It's a little amazing. But most of our grads pretty quickly find jobs as analysts of one type or another, so that seems to be a possibility.
I’m truly sorry. This has been my fear for the last few years, and I’m moving on this summer before it happens. I’m leaving a job and an area I truly love, but if I don’t do this now, I fear I’m going to be desperately looking for a stopgap in a few years. What a horrible situation you are in. I extend my deepest sympathies. This profession we chose is in some truly hard times.
Thanks. Yeah, there's some kind of structural shift going on, which sucks for people caught in it.
I'm a mid-50's mathematician PhD at a community college in California. I would say come on out here, but California is going through some crazy assed BS with politicians getting into what's best for the student and the math faculty across the state up in arms. But! Do check out the community colleges, even for part time work. Depending on the state, part time pay can be quite good. (My school pays $116-$157 per hour for part time work.)
This. There are a LOT more community colleges out there as there is a lot more need for that level of education. One can make a reasonable living and have a good work-life balance there.
That's definitely a thing to look for, but I'm hoping to stay where I live.
Biggest advice. Start studying the computer thing.
Yeah, that's becoming pretty clear.
Going to throw this out there, check out slot machine companies. Many tech companies are remote and slot machine companies require math PhDs to ensure they are hitting their required %ages. They pay really well tol.
Good idea; thanks!
Were you tenured? In my math department tenure hires are not a priority right now but we can't hire instructors fast enough. If you like teaching, there are universities and CCs that will be looking to snap you up.
I've been told I'm a very good teacher, both by students and colleagues. Any kind of full-time instructor thing would be great, so I'm definitely looking at that.
Community college. It might be a pay cut, but they are amazing places to work. As a Math Prof, I love it here
I've heard good things about community colleges. Pay cut isn't so much the issue, it's more health insurance. I've got bad knees and some sort of arthritis; these can be pretty expensive.
Issue might be insurance cost for your spouse, but cost for self is as good as any state U
There is a huge teacher shortage. And we need more Dual Credit faculty in every h.s., especially Math. Get your high school certification from the state. Then, get hired on with the school district and teach Dual Credit classes. The salaries are better. Your retirement transfers over and doesn't skip a beat. The job is easier. DC kids are phenomenal. And overall you'll find nicer people to work with. I'm sorry this happened to you. Hang in there. You are still needed, wanted and valuable. Screw them. It's ok to start over as many times as it takes to find an environment where you thrive! (9 yrs post secondary, and now 6 as Dual Credit faculty)
Thanks! I will investigate that!
I'm former faculty in math in what I suspect is the same system where you were at. I would start by looking at the community colleges and heading to the cities. Job searching is tough right now. Let me know if there's anything I can help with.
Thanks! The cities are definitely the source of whatever possible jobs, I think, and I can commute to there.
Sounds good. Again, let me know if there's anything I can help with. Also, I was just reminded... I once asked my department chair how many applications they received for a math faculty position within the CC system; this was 1-2 years pre-pandemic. I was told it was something like 120 of them. So be aware that I suspect the CC jobs are highly competitive, especially in math (though it would be nice to have continuity of benefits). If you're feeling ambitious, you could try to get a MS CS started and finished as I've heard there's a shortage of qualified faculty with that credential. The local R1 I've worked there too (albeit not as faculty): their retirement benefit is probably the best in the public sector in the state. You're vested immediately and you contribute 5.5% while the R1 contributes 10%. If you have a PhD and can deal with the research aspect, that's an option I'd look into as well.
Throw your hat in the ring for data science roles in healthcare, including modeling and statistics.
Healthcare does seem to be a big thing ; some colleagues of mine who were retrenched earlier have moved into that, outside of academia. It's strange, but this has shown me that I have a stronger network than I had ever thought.
Sorry to read this. I hope things turn around 😞
Thanks! The level of support in this thread is amazing!
That sucks. Also, how will they have a math department in 5 years if you're the newest hire? As for finding a job... have you considered moving to Florida?
It's not at all clear that they'll have a math dept; they got rid of Physics but kept one professor to run the physics classes that the engineers and other science majors need.
No. One thing you must have are adequate computer skills because of blackboard, canvas, AP, etc. Every semester sometime new and more difficult. I think you will find a position: broaden your horizons. Hard to believe they fired a Professor. I don't think age is the issue. Good luck!
Thanks for the support!
My advice would be to start learning the “computer thing”. While now isn’t exactly the best time to get a tech job either, it’s better to have more opportunities in the future than put all your eggs in one basket. Any job outside of academia will likely require computers on some level, so best to start learning now. Also, computers have in general gotten a lot more accessible in the last 20 years. Don’t let all the hype intimidate you. Start with learning some basic Python and data science applications. Trust me, this is something most mathematicians can easily pick up.
Yeah--I was good at C 30 years ago, and a little UNIX, and I know some R and Python. Moving to data science and contract work seems like feasible possibility.
I’m so sorry to hear. I wish you the best of luck in your next journey.
Thanks--I wasn't really planning on becoming a new person, but maybe it's for the best?
This is terrible. As someone in my 50s who just successfully secured a position, you will have to work on your online skills (to include teaching). All of my first round interviews and 80% of my second round (including teaching demos) were all done either with zoom or WebEx. It was nerve wracking. I am returning to the classroom after retiring 5 years ago and it was the biggest hurdle. Fortunately, there are tons of resources for those of us that have fallen a bit behind. If I can do it, so can you! Good luck!!
Wow, congrats on getting a position in your fifties! That's great! Due to the pandemic, I've had to do a lot of online teaching and I think I'm pretty good at it--maybe finding online teaching would be possible.
I’m so sorry that this happened. I wish you the best. Here is my two cents: try tutoring websites! Many of them are often hiring. I work for a number of tutoring companies and can find part-time/independent contract work super easily! I know it’s not full-time; but I find it fantastic as a side hustle or a way to cobble together something that is akin to full-time!
That's a nice idea! Some money is better than no money
I’d say suck it to academia and try the private sector. But agree with the comments that you need to get your computer skills up
Yeah, that seems the way to go.
I guess the natural path is to try and become data scientist or data engineer if your trying to keep up with the computer thing. The job market for programming jobs is about as bad as its ever been right now though, but a phd in math is pretty valueable.
Yeah that definitely seems one way to go; the warning about the tight job market is good to remember.
Yeah, it sucks. My friend who worked at your institution until last week got fired 10-ish months ago, I think. I dunno WTF they are doing. Good luck with your job search.
I hope your friend is doing okay; it's amazing how this place just spiraled down the drain so fast.
I know of multiple PhD / post doc / Adjunct friends of mine who have been doing part time work in AI advisory that pays as good if not better than their normal work. Feel free to reach out if you’d like me to put you in touch!
Thanks! That's a great idea
I work at a high school and adjunct at a college. It's not bad to teach upper level math classes at the high school level and intro classes at the college. I'm near Houston, so my base high school pay is 65k, plus I get extra pay for the college classes. It's probably not ideal for you, but it's a low cost of living area and I live pretty well. The only two drawbacks are: I don't have a lot of time for research and I have to personally deal with high school discipline (even those students who aren't mine). In my case, I chose this particular area of education because I believed that it's where I would have the maximum return.
That might be possible where I am, which wouldn't require moving. I'd have to get certified though, I think.
It depends on your state requirements. Many states are playing fast and loose right now with certification because of the teacher shortage.
I just read that you have three years! Grind leetcode and hackerrank to beef up your software skills and apply in software for baking/finance. Alternatively, there's a massive market for cyber security experts. If you're good at number theory/discrete math, this might be an area in which you can really excel. You have the time to get the necessary certifications and should have a great job before the 3 years is up.
Yep! That definitely seems to be the strongest possibility. I'm still hoping some billionaire wants to drop 100k a year for me to churn out some complex analysis results, though.
If you need to learn some quick computer skills, check out your local or an online community college. Their programs are designed to skill people up quickly!
Well, I still have some time here (thanks to our union contract), so I'm definitely thinking of using my tuition waiver to get into programming.
If you’re an American citizen I can refer you in the defense industry. You’d be a good fit systems and software engineering roles. I have a math phd and became a software engineer. Decent pay, chill hours. Minimal possibility of layoff with a security clearance.
That's another avenue; I just need to sharpen those programming chops
For defense, the programming interviews are pretty simple. Know how loops, oop, and your favorite sorting algorithm works and you’re golden. For systems roles, you’ll likely be asked more math/physics based questions and likely nothing about programming. Wouldn’t hurt to learn how radar works if you’re targeting systems roles. I got asked if I knew how to compute convolutions and Fourier series so it’s pretty straight forward if you’re a mathematician. Depending on your experience, you may able to join as a manager (systems, software, or program) and worry much less about the programming/tool skills.
Were you tenured? They fired some tenured faculty at my university this year but had to get rid of while departments in order to do it. Full time instructors were all out on 1-year contracts so they could be fired easily and I am sure many are not getting rehired next year
I was tenured, but we are in a "financial emergency" so they can fire tenured people.
So sorry. I hope you find something soon.
Thanks!
In Tennessee, you’ll get hired in any public high school district. Even in a small, rural district, you’ll make $65k with a doctorate. And many districts are offering math teachers signing bonuses and inflated salaries.
High school is definitely a thought.
Is this Bemidji State University?
No, the other MinnState university that's way underwater.
From the perspective of a student, you need to get rid of that "I'm old and I can't learn" mentality for computers, if you can post on reddit you can learn your way around computers. It'll make you significantly more marketable.
Yeah, I know, I've got some skills and some time to sharpen them. I was writing in the moment of finding out, so was kinda down.
You got this professor, I'm rooting for you.
I'm at the same institution as you. All I can say is I'm sorry; this sucks. I was just hired in 2021 and it's been a really weird time to be here.
Best of luck! Y'know, 10 years ago I thought the university would've turned into an all-online university by now, but it looks like they'll try to keep some physical presence. At least the strategic plan for the campus looks pretty.
Get on those accelerated K12 certification programs stat!
St. Cloud State?
Yeah.
I'm so sorry, and that really sucks. As you regroup and look for work, maybe look at some of the free online resources for catching up with the whole 'computer thing' ? there is so much out there for AI literacy, digital literacy etc. for your general knowledge or for your resume? Your teaching skills should be very transferable, which is an asset. My kid's math tutor is a retired engineering professor - if you need an income to survive in the short term, maybe that's an option for you? He gets $65 an hour. It is less if you're with an agency or a tutoring franchise (which charge students much more but take a huge cut). Just avoid the cheating sites, those aren't good.
Sorry to hear. You can always check higheredjobs.com (a lot of universities post there).
Thanks! Yeah, I'll be cruising that site!
Data Science. There are programs like Insight Data Science that train you and help you find a job at a top company. They only take people with PhDs. I’ve worked with a few people from there and they were simply excellent.
Yeah, I might spend the next few years taking some Data Science courses here (I've got three years before I get kicked out) and see what happens. Maybe the Minnesota Twins are hiring? That'd be a dream job...
Sorry. First of all you weren't fired; sounds like you were laid off. Employers make a distinction on that. What about insurance companies? They need actuaries.
Yeah I know. I was writing in the moment though. Actuaries is a good option for me, I think.
Sounds like what the Koch Industries based new president did to Emporia State University....