T O P

  • By -

[deleted]

I'm sorry, this situation would be stressful for anyone. My guess is that clearly a student emailed them with some information that they want to discuss with you or that makes them think you could use some additional instruction. It may be that the student has complained, or maybe it's not even about you, and a student just has some additional needs and they want to discuss some accommodations that need to be implemented. Who knows. However, the fact that they want to meet next week and not immediately also indicates that it's not THAT big of a deal. It's totally normal to be scared, defensive, nervous etc., but try to not take it personally. Remember, a TA-ship is still technically an "in training" position, so it is normal to still receive instruction/redirection along the way. It's a normal part of being "in-training" and does not mean you are bad or in trouble. My advice is to try not to overthink it or over-worry about it, since that won't help anything (I know, easier said than done.) And most important, behave as professionally, humbly, and even-keeled as possible. Smile and act confident and collaborative. Neutrally and undrammatically correct any information they might have incorrect, and humbly and graciously accept any input they have. When people can take constructive criticism or feedback well, it's super impressive.


Aa1979

It’s shitty to give you no details beforehand and expect to have a productive conversation with you responding on the fly. I’m guessing a sour grapes student is taking out their dissatisfaction of their own work on you. If the suits don’t give you any other details beforehand then answer their questions briefly but don’t be afraid to ask for more time to process and respond at a later date. In the rare case where I can offer no details before calling a meeting like this, I make it perfectly clear that it’s informational and we’ll be setting up a follow up later.


wrldendswu

Thanks for the information; I talked with another TA and they seem to think it's likely an issue between students and I will be asked for my opinion/what I've seen in tutorial. I would assume so, as I've never been made aware of a personal issue, and it would be kinda wild to immediately escalate like this.


Aa1979

Would it have killed them to say “it’s an issue between students and we need your point of view”


wrldendswu

honestly? yes. they like to keep things vague and secretive all the time. you always know nothing prior to the meeting. I think it's how they get the upper hand.


Eli_Knipst

They've been trained by the legal department not to put anything into an email (or any other writing) that could become a 'discoverable' in a potential lawsuit.


Thundorium

I was in a similar position once, and I simply did not answer any questions regarding my availability to meet. Until they told me exactly what the meeting was about, I pretended they only asked *if* I could meet, not *when*.


Lynncy1

It is not fair for them to make you wait until next week and suffer anxiety until then.


wrldendswu

My university loves to do this :)


Real_Marko_Polo

All of them (K-12, too) do.


FoolProfessor

Whenever you are told not to worry, always worry. Respond only to the questions asked and don't apologize or admit fault. Stay factual. Keep your answers concise. Pretend that your answers might end up in court, because they might. If a member of HR is there, be very, very wary. HR protects the institution, not the employees. It sounds like a student has made various accusations against you.


activelypooping

If you have a union, bring a union rep.


wrldendswu

we have a pretty big & great union; I'm on Health and Safety. Considering what other people have said though, this might not be too big of an issue. Should I flag my rep before the meeting just to let them know?


activelypooping

Yes yes yes


[deleted]

You can, but I wouldn't even do that until you find out what it is about. A lot of the commenters are being over dramatic. Even if it is a complaint, if the department head are reasonable, what they want more than anything is simply to deescalate and move forward as smoothly as possible. If you assist in deescalating and moving forward with the situation, they will be happy with you. If you make it harder for them to deescalate or even further escalate the situation by being over dramatic and bringing a lawyer or demanding they send you the email, etc., that will not get you on their good side. Deescalate. Students complain all the time. Literally every teacher has had a student complain about something. No big deal. Don't make it into a big deal. If in the extremely unlikely scenario that something more serious does get brought up like an accusation of sexual harassment or some insinuation that you are not fulfilling your job duties, then go ahead and tell them that you would like to hold off on discussing the matter until you can include a union rep in the convo, but wait until you know it's actually something serious to do that.


wrldendswu

Thank you! I'm just jittery because the escalation straight to "meeting with Director and Admin" seems very scary. I talked to another TA in my course and he believes its likely a student conflict that may have happened in my class, and I will be asked if I have seen anything. But yeah, if the allegations seem to be serious I would like it if the union was already notified. I won't be bringing a rep to the meeting but I think it would be best if they knew I already had a meeting like this coming up; considering how anxious I am it might be best for the union to talk to admin about how to bring up meetings like this in the future for other TAs. But yeah, you're right, it's probably not that deep? But I'm notifying backup just in case 💀


[deleted]

The fact that the director and undergrad admin are there makes me think that it's something that a student has made a lot of noise about, so they want their address of the matter to be thorough. But that does not mean at all that it is about or against you; it very well may be in support of you. They may be well aware the student is the problem. Actually, if it was about you, it would be the Dean or HR in the meeting, not the undergraduate admin. I have definitely had meetings just like this in the past, and I always worry way more about them than ends up being necessary. So notify the union if it makes you feel better, but the best way to have people on your side is just to be so incredibly mature, reasonable, and professional that your actions show that you can't possibly be the problem.


wrldendswu

You're right. Thank you, this has officially calmed me down 😊.


epidemiologist

It's also summer. They might be handling it at that level only because everyone else is gone and they got stuck with it.


OkReplacement2000

That's just the process. Independent faculty don't handle complaints from their own students. So, likely it would just go to the director to handle anyway. Sounds like they just want to skip a step so you don't have to do the meeting twice (once with the prof and then again with the director). These things happen all the time, including to faculty. I wouldn't worry too much about it. I really feel for you though- so scary to be called into a meeting like that as a TA! Read this WHOLE thread just out of sympathy.


wrldendswu

Haha, thank you for your kind words 😊. I'm glad so many people reached out with their opinions, it made me feel much less alone


Eli_Knipst

Deescalating would be the program director sending the student to talk to the instructor directly rather than calling the instructor into a meeting with the entire leadership. It's not up to OP to deescalate. It was a decision by the leadership to escalate. I've been program director for over a decade. I would never do that to an instructor, and most definitely not with frivolous claims.


[deleted]

OP can't control other people's actions though. Nor can I. We only have control over our own actions. The program director isn't in this thread, so no point in giving them advice.


Maleficent_Chard2042

Yes. Absolutely. This many people wouldn't be involved if it wasn't a big deal.


Icy_Professional3564

Yes, definitely bring a rep.


Eli_Knipst

Yes yes yes!!!


gutfounderedgal

Yes this. Any time you're called into a meeting with such people, you have a right to bring an union rep, and you should exercise it. Three against 1: bring a union rep. It's too easy for them to agree you said something you didn't quite say. It may affect some assessment of your work: bring. a union rep. You later want or need a neutral documentation of the content of the discussion: bring a union rep. Admin understands this, and if they don't, the should. It's a right. Its like them having an HR person at a meeting. It's not escalating anything. It shouldn't even be a question. The rep says nothing but takes notes. The admins who called you in are not your friends, they work with HR to get what they want, not what is your right, that's your union's job to protect that side. You can simply email and say you'll be at the meeting with a union rep. Not bringing a rep only works against your interest.


FoolProfessor

Absolutely.


playingdecoy

I would be falling apart with anxiety about this, BUT my read on your post is that this isn't about you, it's about the prof. It sounds like a student might have complained that the prof isn't teaching well and they want to talk to you as the TA to get your perspective (as a student and an informed party).


wrldendswu

I don't think so, but only because it seems that no other TA has gotten a similar email :(


Olthar6

My guess is that it's a student-student issue because there's no need for an undergraduate admin to be present at an accusation against a graduate student and because they would be setting themselves up for an issue if it was a complaint about you that could have some teeth. If it turns out to be a complaint about you, end the meeting. Tell them that you don't feel prepared to answer any questions without a union representative and/or an ombudsman present. If they object, it's a virtual meeting so there's really nothing they can do to stop you from leaving. Yes, abruptly leaving could be an issue, but a meeting about a serious accusation without an unbiased investigator and/or union assistance may lead to a worse outcome. But since they, presumably, know all of that, I'm betting it's a student-student issue.


OkReplacement2000

That's a good point, potentially a student on student issue given the UG dean being involved. If there is a serious allegation, you could try saying something like, "you know, this is obviously very concerning, so I want to make sure I give you the most accurate recollection. Let me go back through my notes/emails/collect my thoughts and get back to you." Then, just ask to clarify exactly what the concern is before leaving so you can respond after consulting the union rep/whoever is needed. It's important to be careful what you say, but I do think it could hurt you to end abruptly because it could appear you're defensive or hiding something. I had a student make a completely bogus accusation against me last year. I was very open in responding, giving all information I had as soon as possible, and I do think that worked in my favor. The person evaluating could see I had nothing to hide and just wanted to clear it. The student had serious mental health issues, which became apparent. Honestly, I've seen some very strange things from students in the past couple of years. I do think this generation likes to exercise their power through complaint, and they're not always honest.


littleirishpixie

I would ask. There's no real reason for someone to be vague and if there is, let them tell you that. As long as you are respectful, I don't see any reason not to ask for clarification. Something like "Sure, I can meet on the following day \_\_\_\_\_\_. Can you please be more specific about what this is in reference to so I can better prepare for the meeting? You want to hear my perspective and I want to make sure I'm prepared to address any questions." Let them say no. I dare them. Because they really can't.


wrldendswu

My university admin is known for their ability to dodge questions 😅.


nso95

They absolutely can


km1116

If they don’t provide you with all the information they have prior to the meeting, they are not being fair. Ask them to forward the email so you can prepare. If they refuse, then I would consider representation.


wrldendswu

I'm concerned about going that hard so quick; but it might be worthwhile to speak to a union rep about this.


km1116

I agree, but this setup is definitely not one of “maybe OP has some important thing to contribute.” Nothing about this is fair. As an Assoc Prof, I’d refuse to take the meeting unless provided with the agenda and materials for the meeting.


journoprof

My read would be that they don’t want to commit to writing their description of the student’s complaint because they don’t want to see that in court.


wrldendswu

😀 that's terrifying to hear! and also very on brand for my university, who has been sent to a human rights tribunal before!


phoenix-corn

The people who were my supervisors when I was a TA would never have called me in, they just protected us from this stuff. I had a student who hated my class from the day she walked in on the first day because she wanted to be going to a different school but couldn't get in (according to her) because she was white. She wrote every paper about how much she hates black people, called me n-word lover in class, and generally was a menace. I never saw that teaching eval because my supervisor said I didn't need to in order to know what she said.


wrldendswu

funny enough, my prof just replied saying the student said they were "uncomfortable" in class; I happen to be a Black woman teaching a STEM course. I don't THINK it's racism, but it could be plenty other -isms that has the student projecting onto me.


phoenix-corn

Ugh I'm so sorry. Unless it's school policy though the two schools I got my degrees at would not have had us meet with the student. I had a serial plagiarizer who then plagiarized his paper on plagiarism, blamed me (the writing center coordinator at the time, as he had a writing center appointment at some point), and later threatened that if I ever came to the urgent care where his dad works he'd make sure I got misdiagnosed. Anyway I never had to see him because the people who were taking care of ME as a student fought it instead. That's really what should be happening here.


bender0x7d1

First - don’t panic! Second - it probably isn’t that serious. If it were, they would ask for a meeting right away. Plus, the admin wouldn’t be there if it were really serious. My guess is they have to go through a process - and you are part of that process - but it isn’t something they haven’t encountered before.


Eli_Knipst

I don't want to worry you unnecessarily and I truly hope that this is a nothingburger of a complaint and that it's resolved easily. And I hope I'm just oversensitive and overreacting at this point because of past experience. But the fact that you said you are a WOC in STEM teaching mostly non-POC along with the 'feeling not welcome' remark rang the alarm bells in my brain. If this is really the case, and this is a discrimination or racism complaint, it is better for you to be prepared rather than unprepared. You have the right to say that you need to look at your records and cannot comment at the moment and schedule another meeting. You should also be allowed to have someone else present in the meeting if this turns out to be a serious accusation. That would also be a reason for scheduling a second meeting. We've had complaints about particularly WOC and none of them were built on any kind of substance. All claims were dismissed. And to be frank, it pisses me off when students go straight to the chair or dean or president instead of speaking with the instructor first. If I get such complaints, I send the student back to talk to the instructor directly and if the issue can't get resolved that way, then I get involved (I'm a program director).


Super_Finish

It sounds like everything is resolved but it's really shitty of the admin to make you wait in anxiety. That being said I've had an email like this in the past and I basically gathered all of the teaching evaluations (I've always had great teaching evaluations) from my career to defend myself in case they thought I was a shitty teacher. I did bring this to the meeting and they did look at it but they were on my side from the get go anyway.


JonBenet_Palm

I am late to this but I just want to echo those who have said it is poor form that your professor didn't shield you and/or better prepare you for this. I don't have TAs (small classes) but I do have lab techs and I can't imagine doing this to them. As someone relatively lower in seniority, it is not your job to deal with this bullshit. I hope all goes well for you!


CaptivatingStoryline

I've had sit-down about student complaints. Not usually a big deal as long as you didn't intentionally do anything and you're now glib about it. Once, the students wrote and signed a letter saying I was a bad teacher for maklrking them late when they were late instead of making them present. My director and his project manager thanked me for doing my job, lol. Sometimes it's just students who aren't used to navigating new environments and experiences and who don't have mature communication skills yet being hyper-sensitive.


sandrakaufmann

This may not be correct, but it’s possible that they need a students perspective on something. I find nowadays as an older professor that students perspectives have changed so much. I’m often out of tune. I heavily rely on advice from students certain issues that just never would’ve come up when I was a student.


popstarkirbys

Don’t think too much of it but document everything just in case


wrldendswu

they sent the initial message via email, so thats good. would it be too much if I responded after the meeting with "meeting minutes" or whatever was discussed so there's a paper trail?


popstarkirbys

Just write down everything on a word file, what happened, when did it happen, who participated in the meeting, what was discussed. You don’t need to inform them unless it’s being recorded. At this point, I wouldn’t think too much of it, but I feel you have a right to send a follow-up email to inquire what is the meeting about.


wrldendswu

I already responded once to my profs email, and I got the "student complaint about tutorial" answer. I don't know if I can ask for the students complaint without them saying it's a privacy issue...


popstarkirbys

Try not to think too much about it until then, if you’re a TA then the professor will have more responsibility to the potential question.


Cold-Nefariousness25

If you have an idea of who/what the issue is, gather as many facts about the tutorials as possible. State the facts (maybe practice before the meeting). The only situation that I know of was a student who was not grading fairly (giving female students poorer grades). When he was confronted, he started saying negative things about them in front of the class. Don't do that. If you figure out that there is a problem student or group of students, document everything for the rest of the term. Every email, every interaction.


wrldendswu

I have 0 idea who it is, but my prof did suggest gathering examples on "teaching strategies I use in tutorial" so I'm assuming a student feels uncomfortable bc they feel lost in the course. I pride myself on explaining every single question after each quiz and letting students ask follow up questions, so I'm definitely good on that front. If this student was ever struggling, I don't think they came forward about it.


Gorf_the_Magnificent

Ask them to send you a copy of the student’s email, so that you can be fully prepared for the meeting. Tell them to feel free to blind the student’s name.


wrldendswu

I don't think they would agree, but an updated email from my prof makes me believe this student feels uncomfortable because they're having trouble following the class (she suggested I gather material showing teaching strategies I use in tutorial). As someone who prides themselves on making step by step slides on how to understand theories and questions, I don't see how this could be a "me" issue. I'll definitely be prepared for this meeting 😌


OkReplacement2000

If it's teaching strategies, then what you're saying here about how you invite follow-up questions and pride yourself on helping them understand is helpful to you. Anything on the level of teaching strategies should be no big deal.


AmazingObject699

You're entitled to bring your union rep with you. Do it.


Old_Pear_1450

As someone who was a department chair, associate dean, or dean for 20 years, I can tell you that such emails (and evaluations) from students were a matter of course when the faculty member was a POC, especially female POC.Of course, you have to follow up, and once in a while either the complaint was very specific or the instructor had said or done something inappropriate, but the vast majority of times the complaint was very vague (“I think maybe she doesn’t like people like me.”), which could usually be traced to student inexperience with POC in authority positions, or it turned out the student was doing poorly in class and was looking for someone other than themself to blame. Hang in there. You know what you did and said in tutorials. It is worth listening to how others may have heard you and learn from it, if appropriate. It is not worth panicking about. Hopefully your professor and the administrators have common sense and have learned to read between the lines of such emails.


Fast_Possible7234

Ask them what it’s about specifically and if they won’t tell you, then don’t go. I mean, this is academia, not the military. If someone summoned me to a meeting and refused to tell me why, I definitely wouldn’t go.


H_ManCom

Update?


wrldendswu

Not yet, the meeting is this Tuesday!


Comfortable-Pass4771

I may be coming from a different perspective, I think that it's very professional of admin to contact you. I've once was half-a**ly contacted and had my courses removed. No one got my side of the story and when I asked to speak to someone they would dodge communication. I knew that if this is how they handle dilemmas with faculty then I would be better off working at an institution that has the decency to communicate with me. I wrote the dean and ended my career at that institution. It was an excellent decision.