There's no guarantee you'll be able to leave... I'm at a different state R1 and we have so, so many applications for each job from people in FL and TX.
Agreed I was also just on a search, lots of FL and TX applicants with several openly admitting in interviews that they want to leave in part due to the political climate around higher ed
> openly admitting
And why not? Seems like a good reason to me -- you know they aren't trying to leave because they've made a mess for themselves in their current department and you also know that they won't leave your institution for that reason if you make an offer (unless your state is at risk of similarly hostile politics).
How you word it is important, but committees will always have the question of why someone in a tenure-track position wants to leave it. Leaving due to a bad political climate (particularly one that isn't present where you're applying) is a fairly good reason from an applicant standpoint. Assuming it's true, it rules out things like not making adequate progress toward tenure and major interpersonal issues with colleagues as reasons for going on the job market.
We have definitely talked about the state political environment and it’s generally a knowing ‘oh, that’s why they’re leaving.’
But it has also sometimes backfired. Grad students in particular have flagged people as ‘they don’t care about us/don’t want to come here so much as they really want to leave X.’
I think I’d focus less on what you are running from, and why this is such a great opportunity and dept.
I think it’s fine as long as you also make it clear why you want to come to the specific institution you’re interviewing for. We had a few who made that very clear and they gave impressive interviews, but we also one or two who were coming from very different institutions (R1 vs SLAC) and didn’t really understand how different the position would be. That was a little eyebrow-raising.
I am in Florida and the general assumption at schools elsewhere in the country is that anyone teaching here is looking to leave.
If you do NOT say that you are leaving because of the political restrictions of research and teaching, they assume you are a lightweight.
Also, limited resources makes it hard to publish the kind of research that'll let you escape to somewhere better. (Being at a stingy R1 myself, I'm speaking from experience.)
And, depending on what your area of research is, you may have problems if you publish certain things, or even try to research them. You *might* be OK as a chemist, but I wouldn't want to be a biology professor or have anything whatsoever to do with climate science; destruction of habitat or endangered species, reproductive science; anything to do with gender, even from a genetic point of view, and a lot of other areas, including some that will be hard to anticipate. I know of a history professor in Texas, who was talking about leaving Texas so that he could continue to do his research in the history of South Texas, there was no way that he could continue working in this area without discussion of race and ethnicity, and was afraid any such work would be seen as a violation of Texas law.
> anything to do with gender, even from a genetic point of view
And if you do cover gender or biological sex from a genetic point of view you risk being blackballed from the left, even if it's relevant.
Not really. I know plenty of people in that field. The problem in the state(s) in question is that scholars in less restrictive states may consider your research suspect, since only one sort of findings would be welcome. But anyone working in that field must know that it's a politically charged subject and any notable findings will get a lot of attention, so expect your research to be heavily critiqued.
Have you spent time in Florida? Do you have personal connections in the state? If not, I would think long and hard about how such a move would affect your quality of life. I live in Florida and have no plans to leave, but between low-ish pay, a rapidly rising cost of living, climate change, bad and declining public schools, and real political nastiness, it's hard for me to recommend this place to newcomers unless they are very open-eyed about what they are getting into.
They are now worse than when you visited. I know this first hand. If I only suffered from the “nastiness” at one place, even two, I would shrug it off. But it’s absolutely everywhere.
I grew up in a blue state and I’m now in a red state at a large R1 and I am just so despondent over the public education system here and what my kids have to deal with.
Yeah, many of my colleagues who have young kids ARE trying to leave for this very reason, it just isn't that easy to find other jobs elsewhere. I don't think red state public schools are universally bad, but where they are bad, they're horrid.
Do what you wish to do.
I’m going to give you my most direct and blunt advice from my perspective, and my perspective only.
I will say this so you understand more about my perspective: my partner was tenured in the humanities at one of the large R1s in a well established department. I was tenured in a small private school in the arts. At a certain point the strain on the public education system in Florida was so extraordinary and personal she left. I left my position this summer.
Florida has been a trap for us we have been struggling to escape, and the past 3-5 years of the state wide politics have made it extraordinarily important.
I do not recommend anybody take a job at a public school in Florida. And I do not recommend any graduate students take work. Undergrads are mostly fine and might still get a good deal, but their educations are very tumultuous due in no small part to faculty leaving.
The reason your job is open is because *many* mid career professors have fled. In my partner’s department they have had about 6 *mid career* professors leave, half who have left academia entirely. Junior professors have a very high turnover. They stay for a year or two until they can leave. If you do take a position, you should expect obscure tenure standards that will change every year or two, a tenure protection that is potentially meaningless (the legislature imposed tenure reviews for all faculty), impressive accreditation burdens as each university attempts to understand what the state means when they pass laws saying they must change accreditation every five years; and budget cuts that continue to be perpetual and almost silly crises.
The state schools are severely pressured and scrutinized at this moment, and all of them are experiencing restriction and conflict- it emerges from state pressure *and* schools that are inept at facing these troubles.
Florida has also gotten prohibitively expensive. State school faculty in some cases have not gotten meaningful raises is in years.
If you have specific questions I’m happy to talk on DMs.
I’m in the process of leaving an R1 in the south and going into industry (for much better pay, I will add). A recent grad of our department was recently turned down for a relevant postdoc at a public university in Florida because they are no longer permitted to hire Chinese citizens. I wish I was joking.
From my understanding, the state university to which he applied said they specifically are not permitted to hire Chinese nationals at the moment. He’s not a dramatic guy and it tracks politically so I’m inclined to believe he did not misunderstand the situation.
That is factually incorrect. There is no prohibition on hiring Chinese citizens. As they are from a "country of concern", they may experience additional scrutiny.
Do you have any other options? Because I'd be a bit worried about my future if applying there. On the other hand, TT is TT, and if you do end up having to move somewhere else (whether pre- or post-tenure), "fleeing the now-untenable political climate" isn't a terrible excuse.
Too soon to know for sure, but signs point to no, it's not still true. I am hearing rumors that the state's mandated post tenure review imposed an unofficial quota, whereby the different universities have to give a certain percentage a bad rating. And people are sharing online things like "every five years you need to have completed the same # of pubs as people who are earning tenure." Like if you need 10 pubs for tenure, you'd better be cranking out 10 ~~a year~~ every 5 years afterwards. Along with everything else. Sorry I do not have links to share atm, maybe someone else does
I know of several long-time tenured faculty who were let go due to the review. Their research was good but they didn't have a lot of new grants, which is probably a big factor in their review (maybe even the biggest factor). So in their case tenure did not prevent them from having to retire early.
I’m in my 50s and honestly slowing down. I’m not in Florida but our institution is also in a red state and will do the five year review.
It is different for the folks you mentioned. If they retired early it was probably because they were over 50 like me. I currently have 4 active grant but I plan to stop busting my ass for the damn grants so my guess is that they’ll get me in 5 or 10 years and push me out too.
However, OP is younger and they’ll have to produce grants anyway, to get tenure. Then they could move. Or they could move after a couple of years. They don’t have the force to retire early problem me and the folks you mentioned have.
However, other red states are doing the same stuff so things don’t look good anyway long term.
You are correct in that they were all over 60, so were told to retire. But others nearing their 70s are still publishing and bringing in big grants so are still able to remain.
I think the reviews are every five years and from what I can tell, they want you to produce at a comparable level while you're still TT. A prof at UF shared tentative criteria which, as far as I can tell, are unchanged and fairly consistent across the universities:
[https://x.com/lisascottbcd/status/1775631814515687682](https://x.com/lisascottbcd/status/1775631814515687682)
Wow... 12 articles and $10k in funding to "meet expectations." But you need 34 articles and TWO MILLION in external funding to "exceed expectations." That's quite a gap.
I feel like one of the best things about tenure is that you don't have to "prove yourself" every year (or five) so you can focus on work that might not pay off immediately. This criteria is definitely going to lead to lots of low quality work being published and presented. Depressing.
I do have other options, yes. I'm considering the strategy of putting in my time to strategically "flee" later, but if it's going to be an overworked/dubious quality of life situation, which it appears based on many, many online rants, I'm unsure if that's truly worth it. Optimistically, I'd say going would give me better options in the future, but maybe I'm being too optimistic. Hard to say!
If your alternative is being an adjunct, you should definitely take this opportunity. If your alternative is being a non-tenure-track instructor or teaching professor or research professor, it's a tough call. If your alternative is being tenure track literally anywhere else, including a community college: Do that.
This is a very helpful breakdown, thanks. I've been fortunate that I haven't had to adjunct. I do have another TT option thankfully which on paper isn't as appealing, but based on what you and everyone else is saying, it seems like that shouldn't be the driver in the decision here.
Don't feel shy about telling the Florida department/hiring director why you aren't taking the job: Including that you're taking one with less pay (or whatever makes it less appealing to you). They probably feel similarly, but also probably feel trapped by the [golden handcuffs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_handcuffs) of tenure.
Not that it's likely to mean much in the short term, but in the longer term it might be one more piece of evidence to establish the reality of DeSantis's self-imposed brain-drain.
As someone fresh out of grad school and on the job market, how is it possible for us to even compete with these more established people? I'm in a same sex marriage and we are not willing to go to said red states because those states want to void our marriage and possibilities to start a family...
I feel you, but also (as someone who has been on the market at various stages), there is typically a preference for fresh grads. They are more recently trained in new methods and subjects, they are actively publishing, and they are cheaper. The longer you stay in academia, imo, the *harder* it is to get an academic job somewhere else unless you are a grant rainmaker. There are very few open-rank searches, they are almost all for Assistant level. More senior academics typically get headhunted, and for that to happen you gotta be worth hunting.
That makes sense. I wondered because there were a number of open rank and assistant professor jobs in my field that went to established people last year, so I was starting to worry that I would be a less appealing candidate due to relative lack of experience/research profile. It is a shame how hard academia makes it for people at all levels to move institutions/locations. I really feel for professors in the south right now with all of the anti-intellectual legislature.
I remember a year like that after the 2008 recession subsided a bit and hiring freezes lifted - lots of lateral movement at that time of mid-career profs taking better positions. But typically I think the job market really favors new grads (in a way I find a bit silly - people who have been out a few years have likely adjusted to the workload, figured out how to balance teaching and research, etc, but they tend to get passed over for the shiny newness of a fresh degree).
I agree with this. I finished in 2009 and was a finalist at a dream campus (didn't get it) and got a fancy postdoc. Then, for years after that, with the same CV and better... crickets. I finally got offered a TT seven years later and am still there. The shininess is real.
I am so unhappy here, and I can’t even say how unhappy because in this state a vengeful person could have me institutionalized (and I have been threatened with this, for complaining about an abusive admin.)
Sure, ignore every information source that exists (and take a pay cut) to come on down and join us in hell. I can’t get out of here fast enough.
R1 here, too.
One upside, if you can call it that, is that managerial narcissism is so rampant here, you might get a honeymoon phase of “love bombing” before things go bad.
Or maybe it’s already started. Let me guess — are you a unicorn? The perfect addition to their “family” of a department? So perfect for the job you’re almost like a walking, answered prayer?
If they never said anything like that, you might be safe. If they did, just run.
Congrats on the offer, in any case.
If that's the case, I would rake any other TT option over this. I have a friend at FSU on TT, and he's desperately trying to find another job. Tenure isn't even equivalent to tenure in most other places now apparently and he thinks it will only get worse.
Similarly, I chose a department that is much less well known (though still R1) over a great UT job - and I'm so glad (imagine having your colleagues sue the university to penalise students for getting abortions, as two profs there just did!). It's not worth risking your or your family's emotional and physical wellbeing
Pass.
I have several friends who are tenured at public institutions in that state. They are almost all trying desperately to leave or planning on early retirement. I also know someone who lived & worked there but passed on a TT offer - they said they'd rather leave academia entirely.
UF is a top 20 school for quite a few programs. I wouldn’t have a long term desire to be in Florida, but UF would be a fairly solid place even if it is just a stepping stone.
I'll say relatively prestigious, more so within the context of my other options. Program would be a step up, but my other options are not bad by any means.
Isn’t FL in a race to the bottom with regard to higher education? It’s tenure track…for now. Can you even consider it tenure if there are annual reviews?
I think the reviews are every five years and from what I can tell, they want you to produce at a comparable level while you're still TT. Sounds like it's tenure in name only, and from what people are saying, probably not best to roll the dice on that.
I wouldn't move to Florida for any reason whatsoever. But that's a personal reaction. Professionally? Only if it was the only possible option, and I'd be looking for a way out asap. For a pay cut? No way in hell. Why walk into that politicized nightmare?
Faculty are *fleeing* Florida's public institutions for good reason. Even at my modest SLAC we've seen a huge increase in FL/TX/OH/etc. applicants for any posted position. This spring colleagues reported like 10X as many from those states in a big social science pool than they'd seen a few years prior for a similar position, while other states were mostly flat.
I got out of my Florida R1 and have been working hard to help friends find positions to get them out, too. It’s bad down there. There is no possible way I’d go back.
Yes, all of the above. Unfortunately im in texas, so pretty much same. We are currently dealing with massive headaches imposed by the legislature. Its not expected to get better at any point in any way for probably at decade. Also have heat, climate change exacerbations, and the lovely hurricanes too. I would *never* choose texas or Florida if I had a glimmer of hope for a career. Or grad school.
Even an urban, liberal state land grant university, in our capital, a blue city surrounded by red, has loons aiming to punish women who get abortions.
Its not safe here.
100% no. I'm working to get out of florida having decided "It will be fine" two years ago. This is my throwaway to figure out exiting.
I'm conservative, and love warm weather. Florida universities are under attack by Florida government, and it is causing major issues everywhere. I cannot do my work, and the same is true for practically everyone I know. My school is hiring hundreds of faculty this coming cycle, and almost everyone I know is looking to leave.
The risk is not worth it.
I almost feel bad for life-long conservatives. I know a lot of people who say they're conservative but really just mean, "I want lower taxes." Setting aside the problems with that stance, it must be hard to be forced to support racism, misogyny, and literal criminals in order to stay part of "the club" these days. I'd feel worse for them if they ever pushed back against the insanity that's taken over the right. As it stands, they've made their beds.
No, not voting that way. Hard to these days. In Orlando the Nazis outside Seaworld are also wearing MAGA gear. It's fucked.
I'm a fiscal conservative with a little more nuance than "I hate taxes". I am not a bigot, I don't think higher ed is the enemy, and I don't want to ban abortion.
However much you hate conservatives, be happy you are not one. No part of the US political landscape looks like what I believe. I often doubt I will live to see it exist again.
There are a lot of us.
Sending good thoughts your way, friend. I don't hate conservatives, mostly I just wish I didn't think that they hate me.
I actually grew up in a very conservative family. Like, "grandpa owned a plastics company in the 70s" conservative. For me, the weirdest thing is that when I was growing up I felt like my family was pretty open minded. I certainly didn't notice the kind of bigotry that my mom spouts regularly now. I honestly don't know if she's changed or if I was just oblivious as a kid. Either way, it was very hard to come to grips with the fact that many of my family members don't actually believe in the values that I thought I got from them.
If it makes you feel better, as a pretty liberal person, just about no part of the US political landscape looks like what I believe in either. I'll never understand the people who want to blame all of our woes on "far-left extremists" when we can't even get universal healthcare.
Your point brings up something that's been in the back of my mind: if I go in and my future (highly qualified) colleagues are trying to leave, I fear an overworked/brain drain situation. If it turns out to be that, it negates a big reason to take the job (being in a good department by \*current\* metrics).
Exactly. My department is an upgrade only on paper. In reality I have fallen behind as a scientist here while dealing with all of this. There is a dip in my funding, publications, and citations that is named "Florida".
Here is a memorable post by someone at UCF:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/15fvr8s/the\_deteriorating\_state\_of\_ucf\_and\_florida\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/15fvr8s/the_deteriorating_state_of_ucf_and_florida_a/)
I feel this person. I am in a similarly bad spot. I wish I had not come.
That post is what started me down this rabbit hole! It's certainly not a one-to-one with my situation, but I wasn't sure if it was a unique situation or not. Unfortunately, the more I look, the more common it seems.
No. The political climate is awful but the actual climate is also awful. Hurricanes, heat, flooding. All of that is getting worse every year.
Florida is fine for a week every year for a beach vacation but actually living there is different.
(Source: I lived in Florida for a bit)
So much NO! I'm at UCF, in Orlando, in Computer Science, and it is falling a knightmare.
You cannot get anything done. It means, for me, 20 hours a week just trying to get my basic administrative work done. I'm a new PI, so it is just me, and no one will answer the phone, and when they do they do not know the answer. Turnover is endless. I have had 4 finance people since I started last year, and 7 purchasing people.
I used to be a scientist. I miss that.
I’m at a public R1 in Florida. There are many, many things I don’t like here but my department isn’t one of them. Pay is the same as any Southern US university in this category. In my department, almost everyone gets tenured (in fact I’ve never heard a story otherwise, though I never asked explicitly whether there’s anyone ever who didn’t get tenured, I’m sure such examples exist, but you know what I mean).
Context is everything, but Florida still has many great colleges. FSU, UF, U of Miami, and a few others are all great schools.
The political situation may not be ideal, but the big schools are not worried about enrollment declines.
Also, I am currently in Florida. Professors who are part of minority communities tend to enjoy being at schools in larger cities. Think Miami, Orlando, and Tampa. However, professors who are part of minority communities who are at more remote schools, they tend to stick around until they can get a job elsewhere.
This institution's ability to weather the enrollment decline is a plus for me and part of what I've been thinking about. My other options are comparable in terms of community/population, so that's not a huge concern of mine.
I wouldn’t think so. In addition to all of the comments from Florida faculty below trying to escape, consider this: there are so many faculties from Florida trying to escape that your record, unless it is stellar, might be drowned out in the wave of qualified faculty trying to leave, and, because other schools know you’re desperate, they may lowball you on pay and resources, just because they know you’ll take almost anything.
I don’t know is this has been said, but more than Florida is implementing the 5 year reviews and also some of the faculty, specifically those who do bring in a shit ton of money , actually secretly or not so secretly agree with this policy. My guess is that it’ll spread all over and before we know it, nobody will have anywhere else to go.
Now, it remains to be seen if the $$ standards will be sustainable because after all a lot of faculty are competing for the same bucket of money and that ain’t getting any larger. However, classes need to be taught and departments and colleges need folks to be on committees. Interesting to see if everyone who doesn’t bring in money will be fired and all rich and famous faculty will take on all the teaching and service load that is needed.
I would not do it. I interviewed for a TT job at an R1 in Florida this past cycle. There were so many red flags on that interview. I knew less than 24 hours into the three day interview that the position would be a nightmare. I wish I could have left the interview at that point.
Can I ask what red flags you had in your interview if you feel comfortable sharing (no need to be specific, of course)? I had some as well. Steps that were skipped that normally aren't in TT interviews in my experience.
All of the R1s in Florida are pretty decent. I don’t know of one with poor research resources. If it’s R1 and aligns with your goals then take it.
If youre publishing, have a good teaching setup, and are coming from a better school then its usually easier to move.
I teach at a community college in Florida, by choice. I am also the chairperson of my department. I accepted this position five years ago, and for the most part, I don't regret my decision. I have a professional doctorate, not a Ph.D., which the state of Florida regards as equivalent to a Ph.D. For my discipline (the biological sciences, and specifically, those pre-requisite courses for nursing and other allied health sciences), this was a perfect fit for me. I'm not interested in doing research or publishing endless papers. I specifically wanted to teach people who want to enter the healthcare profession. So, for the most part, the political climate doesn't affect me greatly. There are a few things I would recommend you consider in deciding if Florida is a state in which you want to teach:
1. It depends on your discipline. The humanities are struggling nationwide, and the current political situation makes their lives a bit more challenging. The sciences remain mostly unaffected by the politics. If your discipline requires lots of research and publishing, you should see what people in your field are producing at that institution. What kind of support does the institution give them for obtaining grants and furthering their research interests?
2. Colleges and universities in Florida that do not have a robust faculty union can be quagmires. I know faculty who haven't seen a pay raise in 10 or 20 years, or who walk on eggshells around their administrators because they do not have any union representation. My college has an excellent union. We engage in collective bargaining throughout the year to secure appropriate salary increases commensurate with the cost of living.
3. I'm not sure what you mean by a not-great reputation. A more useful metric would be to ask faculty in the department in which you work what their relationship is with their department chair and with the administration. Those are the people who can make your life pleasant or a living hell.
4. While the state government and the current governor's administration are making it harder for faculty unions to function in Florida, they are also working hard to eradicate tenure. We don't have tenure at my college, but I don't mind. I am perfectly happy to appear before a committee of my peers every five years to defend my professional portfolio and answer their questions. Tenure will, I think, eventually become a thing of the past, and not just in Florida. Many institutions of higher education regard tenure as a long-abused gravy train. to be clear, I am neither condemning nor defending the practice of conferring tenure. I am only pointing out that it is not as common in Florida as it may be elsewhere.
5. I think it's hard to get a sense of whether a college or a university will be a good fit until you visit the place and spend some meaningful time there. Talk to people. Listen. Observe. The vibe you get and the gut feeling you discern are probably good indicators. Do faculty seem convivial with each other? Do the stress lines etch the faces of everyone you see? What do the students think of their professors? Does the campus environment resemble a prison or an oasis of scholarly activity?
6. The grass usually isn't greener on the other side.
7. Appearances in the media aren't always an accurate representation of the reality you may encounter.
I had four job offers in roughly the same period when I interviewed in very different parts of the country. I ultimately chose the position I now have in southwest Florida because of multiple factors, not just the salary. I was done with snow and ice and six months of gloomy winter. I was at a point in my life when I also needed a change (I am a licensed healthcare professional, and I made the conscious decision to retire from clinical practice in favor of teaching). At that time, the housing market was affordable. I moved at precisely the right time. I sold my house in the midwest and bought a bigger, newly constructed house here in Florida in a new housing development, and still have lots of money left over to upgrade my new Florida home. I appreciated that Florida does not have a state income tax. Then, within a year, the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic hit, we had several months of lockdown, the Florida housing market exploded, and we saw a massive influx of new residents. My point here is that timing can be everything.
Yes, we've lost some faculty due to the state politics. But, politicians come and go. Their days are ultimately numbered. In truth, we've lost far more faculty to retirement than to state politics at my college.
Yes, we've found recruitment of new faculty more challenging because of the state politics, but more so because of the massive increase in the cost of living and the cost of housing, although that seems to be deflating somewhat now. But there are a lot of applicants for openings from many in-state residents who are looking to make a move from a less supportive institution to our college, so it's not like we can't find good faculty. It just takes a little longer now to work with a somewhat reduced applicant pool.
I have no regrets about my decision to move to Florida five years ago, even having gone through Hurricane Ian. There will be more hurricanes, and that's just a fact of life in Florida. But the northeast experiences nor'easters and blizzards, so it's all relative. I don't miss firing up the snowthrower or scraping my driveway at five in the morning to get my car out of the garage.
I wish you the best of luck in your decision-making!
Thank you for your comments. To be honest, I don't pay attention to up- or down-votes. I don't offer unasked-for opinions and I try to base my comments on my experiences and facts, not hypotheticals. Most of the respondents to your question don't seem to live in Florida, so I'm not sure how the downvoters feel qualified to object to the comments of someone who does. But the only opinion that counts in this case is yours. Making a move to another college or university is a significant decision, and you should weigh all the facts against your personal and professional preferences before concluding one way or the other. Only you can be the expert on what is best for you. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.
(a) Tenure Track
(b) Florida
Pick at most one.
At some level, I think Florida has done some interesting work dismantling education (that is _not_ a compliment). They're really up there with California in terms of fucking over the educational system while claiming it's progress.
I think if it’s a public school in FL I wouldn’t go. What about private universities in Florida? They don’t have to adhere to the tenure/anti-DEI stuff right?
Absolutely do not do it. I left and cannot find a job in field after 20 years in the profession. Should have secured employment before leaving, but I had enough of that hellscape. Deans have said it isn’t a red flag coming from FL—it’s a union protection for those already in the pipeline on the West coast—but I also believe I am a walking red flag for less “conservative” states (not that we can even call FL conservative, lol).
There's no guarantee you'll be able to leave... I'm at a different state R1 and we have so, so many applications for each job from people in FL and TX.
Agreed I was also just on a search, lots of FL and TX applicants with several openly admitting in interviews that they want to leave in part due to the political climate around higher ed
> openly admitting And why not? Seems like a good reason to me -- you know they aren't trying to leave because they've made a mess for themselves in their current department and you also know that they won't leave your institution for that reason if you make an offer (unless your state is at risk of similarly hostile politics).
How did the committee take that? I ask because I will be interviewed soon and am planning on saying exactly that.
How you word it is important, but committees will always have the question of why someone in a tenure-track position wants to leave it. Leaving due to a bad political climate (particularly one that isn't present where you're applying) is a fairly good reason from an applicant standpoint. Assuming it's true, it rules out things like not making adequate progress toward tenure and major interpersonal issues with colleagues as reasons for going on the job market.
We have definitely talked about the state political environment and it’s generally a knowing ‘oh, that’s why they’re leaving.’ But it has also sometimes backfired. Grad students in particular have flagged people as ‘they don’t care about us/don’t want to come here so much as they really want to leave X.’ I think I’d focus less on what you are running from, and why this is such a great opportunity and dept.
I think it’s fine as long as you also make it clear why you want to come to the specific institution you’re interviewing for. We had a few who made that very clear and they gave impressive interviews, but we also one or two who were coming from very different institutions (R1 vs SLAC) and didn’t really understand how different the position would be. That was a little eyebrow-raising.
I am in Florida and the general assumption at schools elsewhere in the country is that anyone teaching here is looking to leave. If you do NOT say that you are leaving because of the political restrictions of research and teaching, they assume you are a lightweight.
Glad they left, the plan is working 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 🤣🤣🤣
Very good to know!
Also, limited resources makes it hard to publish the kind of research that'll let you escape to somewhere better. (Being at a stingy R1 myself, I'm speaking from experience.)
And, depending on what your area of research is, you may have problems if you publish certain things, or even try to research them. You *might* be OK as a chemist, but I wouldn't want to be a biology professor or have anything whatsoever to do with climate science; destruction of habitat or endangered species, reproductive science; anything to do with gender, even from a genetic point of view, and a lot of other areas, including some that will be hard to anticipate. I know of a history professor in Texas, who was talking about leaving Texas so that he could continue to do his research in the history of South Texas, there was no way that he could continue working in this area without discussion of race and ethnicity, and was afraid any such work would be seen as a violation of Texas law.
> anything to do with gender, even from a genetic point of view And if you do cover gender or biological sex from a genetic point of view you risk being blackballed from the left, even if it's relevant.
Not really. I know plenty of people in that field. The problem in the state(s) in question is that scholars in less restrictive states may consider your research suspect, since only one sort of findings would be welcome. But anyone working in that field must know that it's a politically charged subject and any notable findings will get a lot of attention, so expect your research to be heavily critiqued.
I didn't say it was a guarantee, I said it was a *risk*. >Source am in the field.
Have you spent time in Florida? Do you have personal connections in the state? If not, I would think long and hard about how such a move would affect your quality of life. I live in Florida and have no plans to leave, but between low-ish pay, a rapidly rising cost of living, climate change, bad and declining public schools, and real political nastiness, it's hard for me to recommend this place to newcomers unless they are very open-eyed about what they are getting into.
I've spent some time in Florida some time ago and while I like a lot of aspects about Florida, all of your cons are also on my list of cons!
They are now worse than when you visited. I know this first hand. If I only suffered from the “nastiness” at one place, even two, I would shrug it off. But it’s absolutely everywhere.
Like what? Disney World?
I grew up in a blue state and I’m now in a red state at a large R1 and I am just so despondent over the public education system here and what my kids have to deal with.
Yeah, many of my colleagues who have young kids ARE trying to leave for this very reason, it just isn't that easy to find other jobs elsewhere. I don't think red state public schools are universally bad, but where they are bad, they're horrid.
Do what you wish to do. I’m going to give you my most direct and blunt advice from my perspective, and my perspective only. I will say this so you understand more about my perspective: my partner was tenured in the humanities at one of the large R1s in a well established department. I was tenured in a small private school in the arts. At a certain point the strain on the public education system in Florida was so extraordinary and personal she left. I left my position this summer. Florida has been a trap for us we have been struggling to escape, and the past 3-5 years of the state wide politics have made it extraordinarily important. I do not recommend anybody take a job at a public school in Florida. And I do not recommend any graduate students take work. Undergrads are mostly fine and might still get a good deal, but their educations are very tumultuous due in no small part to faculty leaving. The reason your job is open is because *many* mid career professors have fled. In my partner’s department they have had about 6 *mid career* professors leave, half who have left academia entirely. Junior professors have a very high turnover. They stay for a year or two until they can leave. If you do take a position, you should expect obscure tenure standards that will change every year or two, a tenure protection that is potentially meaningless (the legislature imposed tenure reviews for all faculty), impressive accreditation burdens as each university attempts to understand what the state means when they pass laws saying they must change accreditation every five years; and budget cuts that continue to be perpetual and almost silly crises. The state schools are severely pressured and scrutinized at this moment, and all of them are experiencing restriction and conflict- it emerges from state pressure *and* schools that are inept at facing these troubles. Florida has also gotten prohibitively expensive. State school faculty in some cases have not gotten meaningful raises is in years. If you have specific questions I’m happy to talk on DMs.
I’m in the process of leaving an R1 in the south and going into industry (for much better pay, I will add). A recent grad of our department was recently turned down for a relevant postdoc at a public university in Florida because they are no longer permitted to hire Chinese citizens. I wish I was joking.
Wait, what?? Florida universities are no longer permitted to hire Chinese citizens? Wow. Just Chinese, or international professors in general?
From my understanding, the state university to which he applied said they specifically are not permitted to hire Chinese nationals at the moment. He’s not a dramatic guy and it tracks politically so I’m inclined to believe he did not misunderstand the situation.
I believe you. That's awful.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/29/chinese-professors-florida-ban-00154616
This is accurate.
Just Chinese. Also, there are restrictions on Chinese people buying property. A Chinese administrator at my school cannot buy a home at this time.
That is factually incorrect. There is no prohibition on hiring Chinese citizens. As they are from a "country of concern", they may experience additional scrutiny.
Very good advice. Thanks for posting this.
Thank you so much!
Do you have any other options? Because I'd be a bit worried about my future if applying there. On the other hand, TT is TT, and if you do end up having to move somewhere else (whether pre- or post-tenure), "fleeing the now-untenable political climate" isn't a terrible excuse.
>TT is TT Is this still true in Florida? (Honest question)
Too soon to know for sure, but signs point to no, it's not still true. I am hearing rumors that the state's mandated post tenure review imposed an unofficial quota, whereby the different universities have to give a certain percentage a bad rating. And people are sharing online things like "every five years you need to have completed the same # of pubs as people who are earning tenure." Like if you need 10 pubs for tenure, you'd better be cranking out 10 ~~a year~~ every 5 years afterwards. Along with everything else. Sorry I do not have links to share atm, maybe someone else does
I know of several long-time tenured faculty who were let go due to the review. Their research was good but they didn't have a lot of new grants, which is probably a big factor in their review (maybe even the biggest factor). So in their case tenure did not prevent them from having to retire early.
I’m in my 50s and honestly slowing down. I’m not in Florida but our institution is also in a red state and will do the five year review. It is different for the folks you mentioned. If they retired early it was probably because they were over 50 like me. I currently have 4 active grant but I plan to stop busting my ass for the damn grants so my guess is that they’ll get me in 5 or 10 years and push me out too. However, OP is younger and they’ll have to produce grants anyway, to get tenure. Then they could move. Or they could move after a couple of years. They don’t have the force to retire early problem me and the folks you mentioned have. However, other red states are doing the same stuff so things don’t look good anyway long term.
You are correct in that they were all over 60, so were told to retire. But others nearing their 70s are still publishing and bringing in big grants so are still able to remain.
Yeah I can imagine if you’re still bringing in $$$ you can stay
I think the reviews are every five years and from what I can tell, they want you to produce at a comparable level while you're still TT. A prof at UF shared tentative criteria which, as far as I can tell, are unchanged and fairly consistent across the universities: [https://x.com/lisascottbcd/status/1775631814515687682](https://x.com/lisascottbcd/status/1775631814515687682)
Wow... 12 articles and $10k in funding to "meet expectations." But you need 34 articles and TWO MILLION in external funding to "exceed expectations." That's quite a gap. I feel like one of the best things about tenure is that you don't have to "prove yourself" every year (or five) so you can focus on work that might not pay off immediately. This criteria is definitely going to lead to lots of low quality work being published and presented. Depressing.
Whoops, you're right, every 5 years, I edited to fix my mistake. And thank you for the link.
I do have other options, yes. I'm considering the strategy of putting in my time to strategically "flee" later, but if it's going to be an overworked/dubious quality of life situation, which it appears based on many, many online rants, I'm unsure if that's truly worth it. Optimistically, I'd say going would give me better options in the future, but maybe I'm being too optimistic. Hard to say!
If your alternative is being an adjunct, you should definitely take this opportunity. If your alternative is being a non-tenure-track instructor or teaching professor or research professor, it's a tough call. If your alternative is being tenure track literally anywhere else, including a community college: Do that.
This is a very helpful breakdown, thanks. I've been fortunate that I haven't had to adjunct. I do have another TT option thankfully which on paper isn't as appealing, but based on what you and everyone else is saying, it seems like that shouldn't be the driver in the decision here.
Don't feel shy about telling the Florida department/hiring director why you aren't taking the job: Including that you're taking one with less pay (or whatever makes it less appealing to you). They probably feel similarly, but also probably feel trapped by the [golden handcuffs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_handcuffs) of tenure. Not that it's likely to mean much in the short term, but in the longer term it might be one more piece of evidence to establish the reality of DeSantis's self-imposed brain-drain.
Good points, thanks!
my initial reaction to OP was "are you insane?", but this is a much better reasoned response than that.
That's why I posted...I worried I might be! ;)
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Very interesting. I had not considered this angle. Thanks!
As someone fresh out of grad school and on the job market, how is it possible for us to even compete with these more established people? I'm in a same sex marriage and we are not willing to go to said red states because those states want to void our marriage and possibilities to start a family...
I feel you, but also (as someone who has been on the market at various stages), there is typically a preference for fresh grads. They are more recently trained in new methods and subjects, they are actively publishing, and they are cheaper. The longer you stay in academia, imo, the *harder* it is to get an academic job somewhere else unless you are a grant rainmaker. There are very few open-rank searches, they are almost all for Assistant level. More senior academics typically get headhunted, and for that to happen you gotta be worth hunting.
That makes sense. I wondered because there were a number of open rank and assistant professor jobs in my field that went to established people last year, so I was starting to worry that I would be a less appealing candidate due to relative lack of experience/research profile. It is a shame how hard academia makes it for people at all levels to move institutions/locations. I really feel for professors in the south right now with all of the anti-intellectual legislature.
I remember a year like that after the 2008 recession subsided a bit and hiring freezes lifted - lots of lateral movement at that time of mid-career profs taking better positions. But typically I think the job market really favors new grads (in a way I find a bit silly - people who have been out a few years have likely adjusted to the workload, figured out how to balance teaching and research, etc, but they tend to get passed over for the shiny newness of a fresh degree).
I agree with this. I finished in 2009 and was a finalist at a dream campus (didn't get it) and got a fancy postdoc. Then, for years after that, with the same CV and better... crickets. I finally got offered a TT seven years later and am still there. The shininess is real.
A lot of schools require you hire rookies. So.
Exactly this. Hiring tenured folks is almost unheard of.
I am so unhappy here, and I can’t even say how unhappy because in this state a vengeful person could have me institutionalized (and I have been threatened with this, for complaining about an abusive admin.) Sure, ignore every information source that exists (and take a pay cut) to come on down and join us in hell. I can’t get out of here fast enough. R1 here, too. One upside, if you can call it that, is that managerial narcissism is so rampant here, you might get a honeymoon phase of “love bombing” before things go bad. Or maybe it’s already started. Let me guess — are you a unicorn? The perfect addition to their “family” of a department? So perfect for the job you’re almost like a walking, answered prayer? If they never said anything like that, you might be safe. If they did, just run. Congrats on the offer, in any case.
If its new college of florida, then no. Run. Also depends on what you teach. Some majors are targets by Desantis and hs cronies.
Being purposefully vague, I could see my area potentially getting caught up in the DeSantis mess, though I wouldn't say it's a given.
If that's the case, I would rake any other TT option over this. I have a friend at FSU on TT, and he's desperately trying to find another job. Tenure isn't even equivalent to tenure in most other places now apparently and he thinks it will only get worse. Similarly, I chose a department that is much less well known (though still R1) over a great UT job - and I'm so glad (imagine having your colleagues sue the university to penalise students for getting abortions, as two profs there just did!). It's not worth risking your or your family's emotional and physical wellbeing
Yeah, I've been putting up with a shitshow and I'm not enthused to slip into another.
Yeah I wouldn't. The craziness may just be getting started.
Pass. I have several friends who are tenured at public institutions in that state. They are almost all trying desperately to leave or planning on early retirement. I also know someone who lived & worked there but passed on a TT offer - they said they'd rather leave academia entirely.
What are the perks for taking the job relative to your current situation? Is it only tenure motivating this potential move?
The main things motivating the move would be tenure and a more prestigious department than I am currently in.
So it is not well paying but is more prestigious? What are the prestige schools in Florida?
UF is a top 20 school for quite a few programs. I wouldn’t have a long term desire to be in Florida, but UF would be a fairly solid place even if it is just a stepping stone.
I'll say relatively prestigious, more so within the context of my other options. Program would be a step up, but my other options are not bad by any means.
Then hell no. Florida should be out for you and politely tell them why.
Much appreciated.
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USF and FIU are both better than Miami
Miami is private, though, so it has more protection from the state legislature.
True!
Isn’t FL in a race to the bottom with regard to higher education? It’s tenure track…for now. Can you even consider it tenure if there are annual reviews?
I think the reviews are every five years and from what I can tell, they want you to produce at a comparable level while you're still TT. Sounds like it's tenure in name only, and from what people are saying, probably not best to roll the dice on that.
You do you but I wouldnt even consider a job in Florida unless it paid incredibly well and allowed me to be 90% remote.
I wouldn't move to Florida for any reason whatsoever. But that's a personal reaction. Professionally? Only if it was the only possible option, and I'd be looking for a way out asap. For a pay cut? No way in hell. Why walk into that politicized nightmare? Faculty are *fleeing* Florida's public institutions for good reason. Even at my modest SLAC we've seen a huge increase in FL/TX/OH/etc. applicants for any posted position. This spring colleagues reported like 10X as many from those states in a big social science pool than they'd seen a few years prior for a similar position, while other states were mostly flat.
I got out of my Florida R1 and have been working hard to help friends find positions to get them out, too. It’s bad down there. There is no possible way I’d go back.
I won't even go to fl for a vacation in its current state of affairs. I would think fl risky for public univ positions
You wouldn’t vacation there because you don’t want to give your money to this horrible state? Or for another reason?
if you’re LGBTQ, it doesn’t feel safe anymore
Its not. Run!
The LGBTQ stuff that just makes it not feel safe at all and I don't want my money going to support the florida politics.
Yes, all of the above. Unfortunately im in texas, so pretty much same. We are currently dealing with massive headaches imposed by the legislature. Its not expected to get better at any point in any way for probably at decade. Also have heat, climate change exacerbations, and the lovely hurricanes too. I would *never* choose texas or Florida if I had a glimmer of hope for a career. Or grad school. Even an urban, liberal state land grant university, in our capital, a blue city surrounded by red, has loons aiming to punish women who get abortions. Its not safe here.
100% no. I'm working to get out of florida having decided "It will be fine" two years ago. This is my throwaway to figure out exiting. I'm conservative, and love warm weather. Florida universities are under attack by Florida government, and it is causing major issues everywhere. I cannot do my work, and the same is true for practically everyone I know. My school is hiring hundreds of faculty this coming cycle, and almost everyone I know is looking to leave. The risk is not worth it.
"I'm conservative..." You still voting that way?
I almost feel bad for life-long conservatives. I know a lot of people who say they're conservative but really just mean, "I want lower taxes." Setting aside the problems with that stance, it must be hard to be forced to support racism, misogyny, and literal criminals in order to stay part of "the club" these days. I'd feel worse for them if they ever pushed back against the insanity that's taken over the right. As it stands, they've made their beds.
No, not voting that way. Hard to these days. In Orlando the Nazis outside Seaworld are also wearing MAGA gear. It's fucked. I'm a fiscal conservative with a little more nuance than "I hate taxes". I am not a bigot, I don't think higher ed is the enemy, and I don't want to ban abortion. However much you hate conservatives, be happy you are not one. No part of the US political landscape looks like what I believe. I often doubt I will live to see it exist again. There are a lot of us.
Sending good thoughts your way, friend. I don't hate conservatives, mostly I just wish I didn't think that they hate me. I actually grew up in a very conservative family. Like, "grandpa owned a plastics company in the 70s" conservative. For me, the weirdest thing is that when I was growing up I felt like my family was pretty open minded. I certainly didn't notice the kind of bigotry that my mom spouts regularly now. I honestly don't know if she's changed or if I was just oblivious as a kid. Either way, it was very hard to come to grips with the fact that many of my family members don't actually believe in the values that I thought I got from them. If it makes you feel better, as a pretty liberal person, just about no part of the US political landscape looks like what I believe in either. I'll never understand the people who want to blame all of our woes on "far-left extremists" when we can't even get universal healthcare.
Your point brings up something that's been in the back of my mind: if I go in and my future (highly qualified) colleagues are trying to leave, I fear an overworked/brain drain situation. If it turns out to be that, it negates a big reason to take the job (being in a good department by \*current\* metrics).
Exactly. My department is an upgrade only on paper. In reality I have fallen behind as a scientist here while dealing with all of this. There is a dip in my funding, publications, and citations that is named "Florida". Here is a memorable post by someone at UCF: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/15fvr8s/the\_deteriorating\_state\_of\_ucf\_and\_florida\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/15fvr8s/the_deteriorating_state_of_ucf_and_florida_a/) I feel this person. I am in a similarly bad spot. I wish I had not come.
That post is what started me down this rabbit hole! It's certainly not a one-to-one with my situation, but I wasn't sure if it was a unique situation or not. Unfortunately, the more I look, the more common it seems.
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I dunno. I can imagine quite a lot of money. Lol.
No. The political climate is awful but the actual climate is also awful. Hurricanes, heat, flooding. All of that is getting worse every year. Florida is fine for a week every year for a beach vacation but actually living there is different. (Source: I lived in Florida for a bit)
So much NO! I'm at UCF, in Orlando, in Computer Science, and it is falling a knightmare. You cannot get anything done. It means, for me, 20 hours a week just trying to get my basic administrative work done. I'm a new PI, so it is just me, and no one will answer the phone, and when they do they do not know the answer. Turnover is endless. I have had 4 finance people since I started last year, and 7 purchasing people. I used to be a scientist. I miss that.
Thanks for this valuable insight!
I’m at a public R1 in Florida. There are many, many things I don’t like here but my department isn’t one of them. Pay is the same as any Southern US university in this category. In my department, almost everyone gets tenured (in fact I’ve never heard a story otherwise, though I never asked explicitly whether there’s anyone ever who didn’t get tenured, I’m sure such examples exist, but you know what I mean).
Depends 1. Are you a POC? 2. Do you teach anything DEI related If yes- run
Context is everything, but Florida still has many great colleges. FSU, UF, U of Miami, and a few others are all great schools. The political situation may not be ideal, but the big schools are not worried about enrollment declines. Also, I am currently in Florida. Professors who are part of minority communities tend to enjoy being at schools in larger cities. Think Miami, Orlando, and Tampa. However, professors who are part of minority communities who are at more remote schools, they tend to stick around until they can get a job elsewhere.
This institution's ability to weather the enrollment decline is a plus for me and part of what I've been thinking about. My other options are comparable in terms of community/population, so that's not a huge concern of mine.
I wouldn't do it. But ultimately you have to make this decision yourself.
I'd say no
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I had heard about what was going on, but didn't see all the details until after interviewing (on this sub, of course)!
I wouldn’t think so. In addition to all of the comments from Florida faculty below trying to escape, consider this: there are so many faculties from Florida trying to escape that your record, unless it is stellar, might be drowned out in the wave of qualified faculty trying to leave, and, because other schools know you’re desperate, they may lowball you on pay and resources, just because they know you’ll take almost anything.
Why not? There's gonna be some cheap houses for sale there soon. They'll be underwater, though.
I wouldn't.
I left a non-TT position at a Florida university and got out of Florida altogether. I would never go back.
Absolutely nothing will make me move to FL.
Had the chance many years ago and wouldn’t then, lol. FL is for vacation in my book.
Tenure in Florida is not worth the toilet paper it's printed on.
I don’t know is this has been said, but more than Florida is implementing the 5 year reviews and also some of the faculty, specifically those who do bring in a shit ton of money , actually secretly or not so secretly agree with this policy. My guess is that it’ll spread all over and before we know it, nobody will have anywhere else to go. Now, it remains to be seen if the $$ standards will be sustainable because after all a lot of faculty are competing for the same bucket of money and that ain’t getting any larger. However, classes need to be taught and departments and colleges need folks to be on committees. Interesting to see if everyone who doesn’t bring in money will be fired and all rich and famous faculty will take on all the teaching and service load that is needed.
I think it's a bad idea.
I prolly wouldn’t
I would not do it. I interviewed for a TT job at an R1 in Florida this past cycle. There were so many red flags on that interview. I knew less than 24 hours into the three day interview that the position would be a nightmare. I wish I could have left the interview at that point.
Can I ask what red flags you had in your interview if you feel comfortable sharing (no need to be specific, of course)? I had some as well. Steps that were skipped that normally aren't in TT interviews in my experience.
All of the R1s in Florida are pretty decent. I don’t know of one with poor research resources. If it’s R1 and aligns with your goals then take it. If youre publishing, have a good teaching setup, and are coming from a better school then its usually easier to move.
I wouldn’t.
It's not worth it. Trust me, it's worse on the inside than it looks from the outside.
I teach at a community college in Florida, by choice. I am also the chairperson of my department. I accepted this position five years ago, and for the most part, I don't regret my decision. I have a professional doctorate, not a Ph.D., which the state of Florida regards as equivalent to a Ph.D. For my discipline (the biological sciences, and specifically, those pre-requisite courses for nursing and other allied health sciences), this was a perfect fit for me. I'm not interested in doing research or publishing endless papers. I specifically wanted to teach people who want to enter the healthcare profession. So, for the most part, the political climate doesn't affect me greatly. There are a few things I would recommend you consider in deciding if Florida is a state in which you want to teach: 1. It depends on your discipline. The humanities are struggling nationwide, and the current political situation makes their lives a bit more challenging. The sciences remain mostly unaffected by the politics. If your discipline requires lots of research and publishing, you should see what people in your field are producing at that institution. What kind of support does the institution give them for obtaining grants and furthering their research interests? 2. Colleges and universities in Florida that do not have a robust faculty union can be quagmires. I know faculty who haven't seen a pay raise in 10 or 20 years, or who walk on eggshells around their administrators because they do not have any union representation. My college has an excellent union. We engage in collective bargaining throughout the year to secure appropriate salary increases commensurate with the cost of living. 3. I'm not sure what you mean by a not-great reputation. A more useful metric would be to ask faculty in the department in which you work what their relationship is with their department chair and with the administration. Those are the people who can make your life pleasant or a living hell. 4. While the state government and the current governor's administration are making it harder for faculty unions to function in Florida, they are also working hard to eradicate tenure. We don't have tenure at my college, but I don't mind. I am perfectly happy to appear before a committee of my peers every five years to defend my professional portfolio and answer their questions. Tenure will, I think, eventually become a thing of the past, and not just in Florida. Many institutions of higher education regard tenure as a long-abused gravy train. to be clear, I am neither condemning nor defending the practice of conferring tenure. I am only pointing out that it is not as common in Florida as it may be elsewhere. 5. I think it's hard to get a sense of whether a college or a university will be a good fit until you visit the place and spend some meaningful time there. Talk to people. Listen. Observe. The vibe you get and the gut feeling you discern are probably good indicators. Do faculty seem convivial with each other? Do the stress lines etch the faces of everyone you see? What do the students think of their professors? Does the campus environment resemble a prison or an oasis of scholarly activity? 6. The grass usually isn't greener on the other side. 7. Appearances in the media aren't always an accurate representation of the reality you may encounter. I had four job offers in roughly the same period when I interviewed in very different parts of the country. I ultimately chose the position I now have in southwest Florida because of multiple factors, not just the salary. I was done with snow and ice and six months of gloomy winter. I was at a point in my life when I also needed a change (I am a licensed healthcare professional, and I made the conscious decision to retire from clinical practice in favor of teaching). At that time, the housing market was affordable. I moved at precisely the right time. I sold my house in the midwest and bought a bigger, newly constructed house here in Florida in a new housing development, and still have lots of money left over to upgrade my new Florida home. I appreciated that Florida does not have a state income tax. Then, within a year, the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic hit, we had several months of lockdown, the Florida housing market exploded, and we saw a massive influx of new residents. My point here is that timing can be everything. Yes, we've lost some faculty due to the state politics. But, politicians come and go. Their days are ultimately numbered. In truth, we've lost far more faculty to retirement than to state politics at my college. Yes, we've found recruitment of new faculty more challenging because of the state politics, but more so because of the massive increase in the cost of living and the cost of housing, although that seems to be deflating somewhat now. But there are a lot of applicants for openings from many in-state residents who are looking to make a move from a less supportive institution to our college, so it's not like we can't find good faculty. It just takes a little longer now to work with a somewhat reduced applicant pool. I have no regrets about my decision to move to Florida five years ago, even having gone through Hurricane Ian. There will be more hurricanes, and that's just a fact of life in Florida. But the northeast experiences nor'easters and blizzards, so it's all relative. I don't miss firing up the snowthrower or scraping my driveway at five in the morning to get my car out of the garage. I wish you the best of luck in your decision-making!
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Thank you for your comments. To be honest, I don't pay attention to up- or down-votes. I don't offer unasked-for opinions and I try to base my comments on my experiences and facts, not hypotheticals. Most of the respondents to your question don't seem to live in Florida, so I'm not sure how the downvoters feel qualified to object to the comments of someone who does. But the only opinion that counts in this case is yours. Making a move to another college or university is a significant decision, and you should weigh all the facts against your personal and professional preferences before concluding one way or the other. Only you can be the expert on what is best for you. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.
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Understood. I appreciate your comments. Best of luck to you.
Thank you so much for your detailed thoughts!
You are most welcome. I wish you the best of luck and success.
No. Noooooo.
(a) Tenure Track (b) Florida Pick at most one. At some level, I think Florida has done some interesting work dismantling education (that is _not_ a compliment). They're really up there with California in terms of fucking over the educational system while claiming it's progress.
Depends on your other options. Any port in a storm.
With expensive you mean real estate, insurance etc?
Yeah. Have low expenses currently because I got in before the housing mess, so that would be a considerable shift.
I think if it’s a public school in FL I wouldn’t go. What about private universities in Florida? They don’t have to adhere to the tenure/anti-DEI stuff right?
I don't think private universities do. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) my only FL offer at the moment is public.
Absolutely do not do it. I left and cannot find a job in field after 20 years in the profession. Should have secured employment before leaving, but I had enough of that hellscape. Deans have said it isn’t a red flag coming from FL—it’s a union protection for those already in the pipeline on the West coast—but I also believe I am a walking red flag for less “conservative” states (not that we can even call FL conservative, lol).
Only if it's my last resort. It would be like moving to Putin's Russia.
Putin’s Russia doesn’t have alligators and hurricanes.
TT jobs are relatively rare. I'd have no concerns about going to Florida for one.
Step stone it.