There are some things to keep in mind when writing to your professor:
1. Utilize a good greeting in your salutation. No professor likes to be called "hey dude," even if her name is "dude."
2. Employ obtuse lexical selection in order to demonstrate adequate erudition.
3. Your professor is using AI to reply to you, use AI to write to the dude.
4. Writing lists like this is unsustainable.
Same. I am tired of the amount of times I've gotten a variation on this email:
"Greetings Dr. \[name\]
I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to request a one-week extension on the final paper. I am fully committed to producing a high-quality piece of work, and I believe that an additional week will allow me to achieve this. If granted this extension, I will ensure that I utilize the extra time effectively and submit the assignment by this new due date.
I appreciate your understanding and consideration of my request. Please let me know if there are any additional steps I need to take or any conditions I must meet to receive this extension.
Thank you for your time and support.
Sincerely,
\[student\]"
A few months ago, someone was writing about this problem, and they said we failed to express to students how much we want to hear *their* voices, warts and all.
I would much rather read bad student writing than a robot any day.
Last semester they seem to be full of feelings but devoid of opinion. I gave out a critical analysis essay assignment in one class, out of 25 maybe 5 actually were able to be critical, discuss, analyse, examine...the rest just summarized the facts. (This is even with a super high level of AI usage. AI answers questions but you have to know to prompt it to deliver the format you want not just feed it a question)
Oh, I gave a whole heartfelt talk to a kid about how much I care about hearing my students’s own words…we had that conversation the week before he turned in an abysmal AI generated paper, and I failed him four days before his scheduled graduation.
A few years back, one of my students emailed me, and led with "Hey mama" - I figure he meant "ma'am" and got autocorrected. He was always quiet and polite, so I am sure he didn't mean to write that.
One of my students emailed me last Tuesday night, and when they didn't get a reply immediately they emailed me on Wednesday afternoon with just this:
"Follow up??"
I quite like "hey dude" or similar informal greetings, but I work with adults so setting up classroom culture is a bit different.
I'm not a prophet giving a sermon, just someone who has been doing data stuff a lot longer than they have.
I hope this comment finds you well - for I too your most humble student who bows to your superior knowledge and wisdom - have often wondered about the functional implications of cytochromes in the context of oxidative phosphorylation! I await your response when you elucidate it with great anticipation!
Assign a zero then report them. If they’re doing it in your class, they’re doing it in others, so start the paper trail. Then announce to the class that you just reported X number of students for cheating using AI. These two steps will reduce cheaters in your class/college and future cheating from the remaining students.
Ah, if only it were this easy. At my school, a zero for academic integrity reasons triggers a very time consuming process in which the student is able to challenge the process. It takes 4 times the amount of time and effort that grading it does.
At my institution, I file a form with supporting evidence and a process begins but then I’m done unless the student challenges, which I’ve never had happen. The evidence is just too clear.
The alternative is to just let it slide and allow them to continue to cheat their way through college, but I’m done with this crap. It’s a bit of work but I’m hoping it pays off, especially as word spreads and I continue to announce how many academic integrity reports I’ve filed.
likewise where I am. Even if the student challenges, I've filed all the relevant paperwork already, so the only reason I'm involved further is if the committee needs anything else from me.
This sounds good but the more of these I need to fill out and keep track of the more despairing I become. First I must piece together a case for AI use. Then I have to fill out paperwork and email each student, then I wait for the students to respond. Finally I either meet with them or not and send the paperwork to the dean, which may or may not be followed up with questions. Maybe something happens at this point? I never know. And don’t forget that my university has failed to have any policy whatsover about AI use.
Anyway, here’s the catch. I teach about 150 students and maybe a quarter of these papers could motivate AI hunts and attempts at punishment. Very very time consuming. (I also believe students realize this and are continually flooding the zone).
Rant: I just want to do my job and I feel like it is becoming something else entirely.
if there is no policy where you are about AI use, then maybe make sure that your assignments get a very low mark anyway if it is used, and reserve the academic integrity route for slam-dunk stuff like falsified citations.
My in-person classes are not as bad, the students are far more honest. The problem is the purely online classes. For them there's no alternative to online assignments, and ultimately there's little AI can't do for them in that arena
I use Perusall for class discussions. Students highlight parts of the reading and are required to integrate their comment with that part of the reading (or reply to a classmate's integration).
Is it AI proof? No. But I do find that specific requirements related to engaging with the reading may help.
As a bonus: Perusall will flag any student comments that are copy-pasted. That's not necessarily proof of AI use, nor is it foolproof (a student could personally type their ChatGPT output into Perusall), but it can be a helpful piece of information.
In the meantime for your current course: anything that references a source that does not exist should get an automatic zero. Ask to meet with students whom you suspect used AI and ask them to tell you more about their questions. If they don't understand what they submitted (or if they fess up to AI use), they should get an automatic zero, as well.
I just started using Perusall myself. I am really pleased with the way it picks up the slack in analyzing the students’ comments so I can focus on content or replying to them.
I highly recommend trying out this software. Your institution may already have a subscription embedded as a tool in your LMS.
I love Perusall. However, I get little support from my Faculty support center or general IT support when it comes to the most recent LTI to integrate with Canvas. Then there are my colleagues who continue to complain about students who are cheating, yet look at me like I’m crazy when I suggest something like Perusall they think it’s going to be more work for them to set it up. I have used it for two years, and I have found that students are reading more, engaging more, and cheating far less.
I’m totally burned out. My Dean won’t support us if we try to prosecute AI cases, so I’ve been requiring multiple quotes from both the reading and the notes in order to have the paper even count as a paper.
One student did just that - by quoting entirely from Aristotle *in Greek*.
When I asked the student where he got it, there was just lots of shrugging. I presented it to my Dean, who also shrugged and told me I couldn’t prove it was AI or that the student wasn’t fluent in ancient Greek.
The good news is that everyone’s trapezius muscles work, the student got a B in the class, and I bought a new bottle of bourbon.
Is this a thing they teach them in Dean Orientation? “Whenever possible, place the burden of proof on faculty.”
If my Dean tells me one more time that I’m gonna have to “go with the flow” and “adapt to changing circumstances” while “giving the students grace” I’m gonna scream.
Or maybe both our institutions have hired the “consultant” that’s been spouting similar nonsense in this thread.
I teach online and even my optional assignments are getting AI. I don't have the time to refer for academic dishonesty because it would be most of them. :(
The weird thing about AI is that even if I keep slapping a 0 on every single one, they keep doing it. This is the case with four or five students in a class I'm teaching right now. I always invite them to meet with me to defend their work, and of course they never do. They're going to fail the class, of course, but just keep going full bore with the AI. I don't get it!
I had a family member send me a series of texts using AI. I am sure it was meant as a joke—to see if I would spot it. I did. And I was seriously put out. Knickers in a twist.
So they were a graduate student who got their cellular biology assignment mixed up with this one? No?
One of the most frustrating things is they don’t even pay close enough attention to realize how absurd their answers are.
I’m having same problem in an online summer class. Midterm papers are hellish. To control it I made requirement of using three specific course readings/lectures and said they can’t go to online sources. Then when they use AI I just call it an online source and give them a zero. That way I don’t have to argue if it’s AI or not- even though Turnitin says it’s 79% AI! ’m retiring in 4 years so taking easy way out till then.
I’ve taken to becoming a hard-ass about relevance and straight up calling students on it in the discussion forum.
>Student,
> In order for your peers to address the question, can you elaborate on what part of this week’s reading your question is relevant to?
If I don’t catch it until grading or they don’t reply to me, I mark it down to hell.
Side-note: It bums me out that students are wasting a cool ass subject like dinosaurs on ChatGPT. :(
Honestly, AI will be the literal death of online classes.
(there's no solution other than in-person work.)
Not a huge loss: online classes have always been vastly inferior to in-person.
I suspect it might be quite the opposite. At my institution we have noticed that AI has made passing online classes much easier. Compared to in-person classes, the ~~pass rates are much higher~~ "students are more successful" and so our admins are pressing the chairs to offer more and more online courses.
you have to change your assignments ... chatgpt is not going away and will only get better,
you need to evolve much like the dinosaurs didn't ... oh and to answer your student's question, ...
let's delve into the structural differences and functional implications of various cytochromes in the electron transport chain (etc) and their role in oxidative phosphorylation.
overview of the electron transport chain (etc)
the etc is a series of protein complexes and mobile electron carriers located in the inner mitochondrial membrane in eukaryotes (or the plasma membrane in prokaryotes). it plays a crucial role in generating atp, the energy currency of the cell, through oxidative phosphorylation. the etc consists of four main protein complexes (complex i, ii, iii, and iv) and two mobile electron carriers (ubiquinone and cytochrome c).
role of cytochromes in the etc
cytochromes are heme-containing proteins that play a vital role in electron transfer within the etc. heme is a prosthetic group containing iron, which can undergo oxidation (fe²⁺) and reduction (fe³⁺) reactions, enabling it to participate in electron transport.
simple enough?
I've had to explain that a personal reflection component is just as easy to genAI as anything else. Possibly more so. Specific and nuanced questions demanding very precise engagement with texts and class material, with defined layout and rubrics seem to work better.
It doesn't make obvious sense, that the more 'robotic' you make an assignment the harder it is to genAI but it's like the password thing - a password of random numbers etc is harder for a human and easier for a program than a strong of real words in a sentence. A defined layout and rubrics engaging with a specific text relies on things humans are good at and genAI wants to pretend it is good at, but is actually fucking terrible at. If the text is not mainstream and written about ad nauseum online, it circumvents most of the genAI competencies and slop.
It doesn't stop them trying but makes it incredibly easy to mark. And they will eventually learn.
yes, but ai cannot write on a blank piece of paper with a pencil ...
this is what I am saying, if the student learning outcome required is "the student can write a well thought out essay at the college level"
then you will have to go back to a paper and pencil timed essay exam. even if you gave them a Chromebook not connected to the internet, they would only have to insert a small thumb drive, and they would have chatgpt
blank paper is the only way.
Probably admins looking to increase enrollment and financial solvency. Async online classes are very cheap to teach. No need for on-campus services and you can bring in students from all over.
If for this task it's just doing the reading and commenting a question, would a better way be to either do a video of yourself talking about the topic or finding a YouTube video/documentary for them to watch instead?
Also have you taught your students what you're expecting from them? I've had to go right back to basics with my classes as I think some of them use chat GPT because they have no confidence and think we're expecting high level academic responses (I teach adult learners the equivalent of a lower level college course). Perhaps a few examples or sentence starters might help? I've had to really hone in on the fact that genuine engagement with the material (no matter how colloquial) is often better than a chat GPT response. After all, we can work on their writing style as we progress.
> you need to evolve much like the dinosaurs didn't
Offtopic, but isn’t this an outdated stereotype? If the large dinosaurs were extincted by a meteor and its aftermath, and some of the smaller dinosaurs evolved into modern day birds, in what sense did dinosaurs not evolve, or how did they fail to adapt?
I didn't want to comment on that but yes, haha, I talk about that in the classes. Dinosaurs dominated for 160 million years, far more than anything else, and given the 10000 species of birds today you could make the case that they're still the dominant life form.
I get it. Everything about the activity is fake, answers are generally unhelpful and people hate doing them. Never been a fan of discussion questions for that reason.
I would be pretty tempted to use AI if admins were making me answer discussion questions on topics I don't care about.
As a "super user" of AI myself, I feel that if a robot can write it, it might not be a great assignment or activity, to begin with ( I feel the same about cover letters or anything else that can be automated.) I have only used online postings for readings that we didn't have time to discuss in class, and I asked them to talk to each other casually, the same way we do in class or like we do here on Reddit. Authentic and purposeful. I find too many professors assign online postings just because "that's just what you do," and it's crap.
What is the point of this assignment?:
* Is it to practice peer critiquing?
* Pacing?
* Practice writing academically?
* Do they not have time to discuss the reading in class? Does it need to be discussed? ( Profs that are too text-dependent drive me crazy. A text is to supplement instruction, not be the sole driver of instruction. Otherwise, we could just buy the book and use the PowerPoint with it and teach ourselves.)
* Mix it up, have them use AI to answer the question, then critique each other's AI response. Do they agree or disagree with the bot? Was it correct? Did it hallucinate? That is a higher-order level of thinking, anyway. I love doing that because they figure out pretty quickly that AI can be wrong A LOT! Play a game of "Bullshit", have it spit out two wrong answers and one correct, and have them figure out which is true. Make it a game.
DM if you need it; this is my area of expertise. I consult with higher ed and the private sector about AI.
This is a fully online class, so there is no possibility of in person discussion. These discussions *are* intended to be casual, and it's the easiest part of it (ask an honest question about something you found interesting in the reading) that is getting the worst AI posts. Same with the essays they have to write - the most egregiously AI-written parts of it are the parts where I ask them to say why they chose a certain dinosaur as their favourite. The good students are authentic and purposeful, and casual, sure, but the rest (that is becoming a majority) give me a huge chunk of text spat out of AI. That will always be *easier* than even casually discussing.
Are they getting graded on the verbosity/academic-sounding responses? If not, then have a "come to Jesus" moment, give the problem back to them, and ask why they are doing it. Have a recording of yourself saying, "ok, these are chatGPT, responses. Why are you choosing this? No punishment, I promise. Is it boring? Do you not see the point? Do you not know what to say? Are you not confident in your writing abilities? What is the issue here?" (9 times out of 10, they are honest and will tell you if they trust you won't retaliate) I have found that to be the most effective. Good luck.
They definitely are not, I ask them to be casual!
In my in-person classes I had that sort of talk with them before they submitted their essays, and the result does appear that their essays are more authentic. For the online students all I can do is post announcements - and they ignore those...
I get it. I do. If you have emailed or group chatted, or texted (I have done that before using google voice) them saying "OK, enough of the ChatGPT or you get a zero." then give them zeros. I was at a private SLAC where we were expected to handhold them, and I would reach out. But I get what you are saying. You do you. If it were me, I would not have them do that anymore and have post a video response instead.
hoo-wee now I remember why I stopped commenting on ai posts, people get nasty. OP was asking for ideas,I was giving ideas to mix it up. What ideas are you offering? none? got it. cheating had been around since education was invented. If someone wants to work that hard to cheat, so be it, at the end of the day cheaters cheat themselves, most won't.
No. At no point did OP ask for ideas. OP asked if other people were burned out. Then you showed up and started telling the people who admitted to feeling burned out that perhaps the source of their burnout was - wait for it - our own incompetence. You literally added insult to injury.
So stop commenting. I don’t see anyone here appreciating your fine advice. Go find a for profit college that does.
idk. The user below I think articulated the reason ; people are getting tired of having to break backs to accommodate new tech.. OP was looking for suggestions, I offered examples, I train peope on this sh*t for a living. , don't want to hear about it, keep scrolling. you know? If someone asked about neurobiology, I keep my mouth shut. Someone asks about AI applications, I offer what I've got. How dare a woman express being knowledgeable about something? No clue. Of course the onus is split between prof and student. however never hurts to try other ways. If OP wanted to just vent, have at it, Want ideas ? I'll offer what I can.
I don't know why you've been downvoted, I genuinely like your idea of getting them to use AI and then do the research of fact checking it. If you can't beat them, join them! Also might highlight to them early on just how ineffective AI can be at answering their assignments. Be good for a task in the first few weeks of the course.
She is being downvoted because her response comes across as very condescending.
OP clearly delineated what the discussion was about and that the students were being encouraged to offer their own opinion about something, and they chose to shirk the instructions. Not every assignment or activity has to become an AI-based activity. It's exhausting and takes away from the crux of the work half the time.
The suggestion that something must be wrong with what the prof is doing if students are cutting corners is the most egregious thing because, once again, the onus is put on us to climb mountains to supplement the students' learning in increasingly novel and engaging ways (as if the COVID hurdles weren't enough). Many of us are extremely fed up.
Unfortunately, this type of assignment is not going to work for long. The older models (from 2022/23) hallucinated a lot. The newer models like ChatGPT-4o, Gemini 1.5, and Claude Opus have mostly (though not 100%) no longer are plagued with frequent hallucinations.
Exactly. Lately I’ve found that suspected AI papers even cite real academic articles that are behind a paywall. The problem is that my school doesn’t have access to those sources, so I can only check that the article exists, not that it actually contains the cited information. The student could argue that they used the interlibrary loan system to access the article even though I know that’s unlikely.
I’m considering having students just use electronic sources and then upload them to a dropbox, so I’m saved the work of having to dig for the source myself. I don’t think AI has the ability to do that yet, either.
I like this idea. I wonder if I could also somehow require them to visually annotate each source they upload (building source annotation into the assignment requirements and rubrics, with specific criteria for those annotations, etc.)
Greetings most sincere esteemed professor. It is indeed most pleasing to read your posting.
There are some things to keep in mind when writing to your professor: 1. Utilize a good greeting in your salutation. No professor likes to be called "hey dude," even if her name is "dude." 2. Employ obtuse lexical selection in order to demonstrate adequate erudition. 3. Your professor is using AI to reply to you, use AI to write to the dude. 4. Writing lists like this is unsustainable.
I miss the hey dudes over thos chatgpt fakery
Same. I am tired of the amount of times I've gotten a variation on this email: "Greetings Dr. \[name\] I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to request a one-week extension on the final paper. I am fully committed to producing a high-quality piece of work, and I believe that an additional week will allow me to achieve this. If granted this extension, I will ensure that I utilize the extra time effectively and submit the assignment by this new due date. I appreciate your understanding and consideration of my request. Please let me know if there are any additional steps I need to take or any conditions I must meet to receive this extension. Thank you for your time and support. Sincerely, \[student\]"
A few months ago, someone was writing about this problem, and they said we failed to express to students how much we want to hear *their* voices, warts and all. I would much rather read bad student writing than a robot any day.
Last semester they seem to be full of feelings but devoid of opinion. I gave out a critical analysis essay assignment in one class, out of 25 maybe 5 actually were able to be critical, discuss, analyse, examine...the rest just summarized the facts. (This is even with a super high level of AI usage. AI answers questions but you have to know to prompt it to deliver the format you want not just feed it a question)
Oh, I gave a whole heartfelt talk to a kid about how much I care about hearing my students’s own words…we had that conversation the week before he turned in an abysmal AI generated paper, and I failed him four days before his scheduled graduation.
Never thought I’d miss, “Yo prof”.
A few years back, one of my students emailed me, and led with "Hey mama" - I figure he meant "ma'am" and got autocorrected. He was always quiet and polite, so I am sure he didn't mean to write that.
also the over-the-top lexical selection.
One of my students emailed me last Tuesday night, and when they didn't get a reply immediately they emailed me on Wednesday afternoon with just this: "Follow up??"
which seems to require that fine British riposte "up yours".
Preceded by "Oi!", of course.
My fav are the "Dear prof" greetings.
I quite like "hey dude" or similar informal greetings, but I work with adults so setting up classroom culture is a bit different. I'm not a prophet giving a sermon, just someone who has been doing data stuff a lot longer than they have.
Okay, but can you make this a listicle that forces me to click on a different page for each item?
I hope this comment finds you well - for I too your most humble student who bows to your superior knowledge and wisdom - have often wondered about the functional implications of cytochromes in the context of oxidative phosphorylation! I await your response when you elucidate it with great anticipation!
I hope this message find you well.
I was hoping the message didn't find me at all.
LOL!
You’ve received the same emails that I have.
fake reference = academic offence.
I used to report that sort of thing, yes. I don't have time anymore, there are too many
When the student gets an immediate F for the fake reference, they are gone! You don't have to grade their things anymore! Time saved. :)
Assign a zero then report them. If they’re doing it in your class, they’re doing it in others, so start the paper trail. Then announce to the class that you just reported X number of students for cheating using AI. These two steps will reduce cheaters in your class/college and future cheating from the remaining students.
Ah, if only it were this easy. At my school, a zero for academic integrity reasons triggers a very time consuming process in which the student is able to challenge the process. It takes 4 times the amount of time and effort that grading it does.
At my institution, I file a form with supporting evidence and a process begins but then I’m done unless the student challenges, which I’ve never had happen. The evidence is just too clear. The alternative is to just let it slide and allow them to continue to cheat their way through college, but I’m done with this crap. It’s a bit of work but I’m hoping it pays off, especially as word spreads and I continue to announce how many academic integrity reports I’ve filed.
likewise where I am. Even if the student challenges, I've filed all the relevant paperwork already, so the only reason I'm involved further is if the committee needs anything else from me.
This sounds good but the more of these I need to fill out and keep track of the more despairing I become. First I must piece together a case for AI use. Then I have to fill out paperwork and email each student, then I wait for the students to respond. Finally I either meet with them or not and send the paperwork to the dean, which may or may not be followed up with questions. Maybe something happens at this point? I never know. And don’t forget that my university has failed to have any policy whatsover about AI use. Anyway, here’s the catch. I teach about 150 students and maybe a quarter of these papers could motivate AI hunts and attempts at punishment. Very very time consuming. (I also believe students realize this and are continually flooding the zone). Rant: I just want to do my job and I feel like it is becoming something else entirely.
if there is no policy where you are about AI use, then maybe make sure that your assignments get a very low mark anyway if it is used, and reserve the academic integrity route for slam-dunk stuff like falsified citations.
This has been my MO. I feel like it is the best I can do.
Completely agree, even a small amount of paperwork and nothing else is too much to do (and too depressing) when I've got 200 students.
Delve into giving them a zero. 😁
Truly a tapestry 😢
A tapestry of zeroes, I tell you!
😂😂😂😂
Let them grapple with those complexities in a dimly lit room. While the echoes of… 🤮ok. Done. Trying to enjoy my little break!
I swear, fall semester all the student writing will be taking place in class
My in-person classes are not as bad, the students are far more honest. The problem is the purely online classes. For them there's no alternative to online assignments, and ultimately there's little AI can't do for them in that arena
Perusall is better than discussion boards.
Why would someone cheat on a topic on DINOSAURS??????
It breaks my heart, honestly. Some people really aren't interested in learning anything at all
People don't even want to try anymore. Seriously, dinosaurs of all things?
I use Perusall for class discussions. Students highlight parts of the reading and are required to integrate their comment with that part of the reading (or reply to a classmate's integration). Is it AI proof? No. But I do find that specific requirements related to engaging with the reading may help. As a bonus: Perusall will flag any student comments that are copy-pasted. That's not necessarily proof of AI use, nor is it foolproof (a student could personally type their ChatGPT output into Perusall), but it can be a helpful piece of information. In the meantime for your current course: anything that references a source that does not exist should get an automatic zero. Ask to meet with students whom you suspect used AI and ask them to tell you more about their questions. If they don't understand what they submitted (or if they fess up to AI use), they should get an automatic zero, as well.
I need to try Perusall. I tried using Google Docs and it was a nightmare--- confusing (maybe I was doing something wrong).
I just started using Perusall myself. I am really pleased with the way it picks up the slack in analyzing the students’ comments so I can focus on content or replying to them. I highly recommend trying out this software. Your institution may already have a subscription embedded as a tool in your LMS.
I love Perusall. However, I get little support from my Faculty support center or general IT support when it comes to the most recent LTI to integrate with Canvas. Then there are my colleagues who continue to complain about students who are cheating, yet look at me like I’m crazy when I suggest something like Perusall they think it’s going to be more work for them to set it up. I have used it for two years, and I have found that students are reading more, engaging more, and cheating far less.
Suppose you have 50 of these cases?
Time for a small language model for reporting academic integrity breaches?
If only. Part of the process is a face to face meeting with the student.
where I am, "meeting" can be an email (and then you submit any replies in with the other stuff that goes to the committee).
Meeting means meeting here, unfortunately.
that sucks. What if there are 50 students with academic offences?
That’s my point.
I’m totally burned out. My Dean won’t support us if we try to prosecute AI cases, so I’ve been requiring multiple quotes from both the reading and the notes in order to have the paper even count as a paper. One student did just that - by quoting entirely from Aristotle *in Greek*. When I asked the student where he got it, there was just lots of shrugging. I presented it to my Dean, who also shrugged and told me I couldn’t prove it was AI or that the student wasn’t fluent in ancient Greek. The good news is that everyone’s trapezius muscles work, the student got a B in the class, and I bought a new bottle of bourbon.
In my head I can hear our Dean of Students voice saying: "Well, playing devil's advocate, maybe the student grew up in ancient Greece?"
Is this a thing they teach them in Dean Orientation? “Whenever possible, place the burden of proof on faculty.” If my Dean tells me one more time that I’m gonna have to “go with the flow” and “adapt to changing circumstances” while “giving the students grace” I’m gonna scream. Or maybe both our institutions have hired the “consultant” that’s been spouting similar nonsense in this thread.
Brutal. We're living in interesting times. Presumably it'll get sorted one way or another, eventually
"delves"
Fail them. It’s cathartic
I teach online and even my optional assignments are getting AI. I don't have the time to refer for academic dishonesty because it would be most of them. :(
The weird thing about AI is that even if I keep slapping a 0 on every single one, they keep doing it. This is the case with four or five students in a class I'm teaching right now. I always invite them to meet with me to defend their work, and of course they never do. They're going to fail the class, of course, but just keep going full bore with the AI. I don't get it!
I had a family member send me a series of texts using AI. I am sure it was meant as a joke—to see if I would spot it. I did. And I was seriously put out. Knickers in a twist.
hey, they delved. *checks box*
So they were a graduate student who got their cellular biology assignment mixed up with this one? No? One of the most frustrating things is they don’t even pay close enough attention to realize how absurd their answers are.
I was about the ask the same thing about cytochromes.
Yes. I've been dealing with it in my courses this summer. I've caught a few (they admitted it). Some I have no proof for but strongly suspect
delves
I’m having same problem in an online summer class. Midterm papers are hellish. To control it I made requirement of using three specific course readings/lectures and said they can’t go to online sources. Then when they use AI I just call it an online source and give them a zero. That way I don’t have to argue if it’s AI or not- even though Turnitin says it’s 79% AI! ’m retiring in 4 years so taking easy way out till then.
I can understand (trust me) the distress, but the grading has never been easier. ZERO.
I’ve taken to becoming a hard-ass about relevance and straight up calling students on it in the discussion forum. >Student, > In order for your peers to address the question, can you elaborate on what part of this week’s reading your question is relevant to? If I don’t catch it until grading or they don’t reply to me, I mark it down to hell. Side-note: It bums me out that students are wasting a cool ass subject like dinosaurs on ChatGPT. :(
That question is pretty hilarious.
Honestly, AI will be the literal death of online classes. (there's no solution other than in-person work.) Not a huge loss: online classes have always been vastly inferior to in-person.
I suspect it might be quite the opposite. At my institution we have noticed that AI has made passing online classes much easier. Compared to in-person classes, the ~~pass rates are much higher~~ "students are more successful" and so our admins are pressing the chairs to offer more and more online courses.
ouch. even *I* am not that cynical. I hope you are wrong!
I have them submit zoom videos with the transcript turned on (so as to skim responses)
At least my toddler knows to say "grrrr."
you have to change your assignments ... chatgpt is not going away and will only get better, you need to evolve much like the dinosaurs didn't ... oh and to answer your student's question, ... let's delve into the structural differences and functional implications of various cytochromes in the electron transport chain (etc) and their role in oxidative phosphorylation. overview of the electron transport chain (etc) the etc is a series of protein complexes and mobile electron carriers located in the inner mitochondrial membrane in eukaryotes (or the plasma membrane in prokaryotes). it plays a crucial role in generating atp, the energy currency of the cell, through oxidative phosphorylation. the etc consists of four main protein complexes (complex i, ii, iii, and iv) and two mobile electron carriers (ubiquinone and cytochrome c). role of cytochromes in the etc cytochromes are heme-containing proteins that play a vital role in electron transfer within the etc. heme is a prosthetic group containing iron, which can undergo oxidation (fe²⁺) and reduction (fe³⁺) reactions, enabling it to participate in electron transport. simple enough?
Yes, I have changed all my assignments. I don't think there is a bulletproof way, but descriptive assignments can easily be done by AI.
I agree. My assignments require a personal and a research component. Doesn't matter. They still use AI
The personal part is often more egregious
I've had to explain that a personal reflection component is just as easy to genAI as anything else. Possibly more so. Specific and nuanced questions demanding very precise engagement with texts and class material, with defined layout and rubrics seem to work better. It doesn't make obvious sense, that the more 'robotic' you make an assignment the harder it is to genAI but it's like the password thing - a password of random numbers etc is harder for a human and easier for a program than a strong of real words in a sentence. A defined layout and rubrics engaging with a specific text relies on things humans are good at and genAI wants to pretend it is good at, but is actually fucking terrible at. If the text is not mainstream and written about ad nauseum online, it circumvents most of the genAI competencies and slop. It doesn't stop them trying but makes it incredibly easy to mark. And they will eventually learn.
The AI for the personal is where it really becomes obvious. Improperly defined terms, clear lack of engagement.
> Improperly defined terms, clear lack of engagement. I would expect both of those from a disinterested student too.
it's a very low mark either way.
yes, but ai cannot write on a blank piece of paper with a pencil ... this is what I am saying, if the student learning outcome required is "the student can write a well thought out essay at the college level" then you will have to go back to a paper and pencil timed essay exam. even if you gave them a Chromebook not connected to the internet, they would only have to insert a small thumb drive, and they would have chatgpt blank paper is the only way.
Only a small fraction of gen z has the know how to put an LLM on a flash drive. Only a slightly bigger fraction knows what one is.
Smart watches though - which is what folk seem to report on being used for that situation.
i was thinking more of a bootable thumb drive to ubuntu
I think maybe 2/100 zoomers know what Ubuntu is.
I've noticed that the vast majority of these posts about AI and cheating start with some variation of "I'm teaching an online class".
Accomodations have entered the chat…
we have caught students using both accommodations AND religious prayer cheating
My university would require dramatic restructuring for this to happen as we have gone big into fully online asynchronous instruction.
ouch ... who had that bright idea, and how much do they get paid?
Probably admins looking to increase enrollment and financial solvency. Async online classes are very cheap to teach. No need for on-campus services and you can bring in students from all over.
If for this task it's just doing the reading and commenting a question, would a better way be to either do a video of yourself talking about the topic or finding a YouTube video/documentary for them to watch instead? Also have you taught your students what you're expecting from them? I've had to go right back to basics with my classes as I think some of them use chat GPT because they have no confidence and think we're expecting high level academic responses (I teach adult learners the equivalent of a lower level college course). Perhaps a few examples or sentence starters might help? I've had to really hone in on the fact that genuine engagement with the material (no matter how colloquial) is often better than a chat GPT response. After all, we can work on their writing style as we progress.
> you need to evolve much like the dinosaurs didn't Offtopic, but isn’t this an outdated stereotype? If the large dinosaurs were extincted by a meteor and its aftermath, and some of the smaller dinosaurs evolved into modern day birds, in what sense did dinosaurs not evolve, or how did they fail to adapt?
I didn't want to comment on that but yes, haha, I talk about that in the classes. Dinosaurs dominated for 160 million years, far more than anything else, and given the 10000 species of birds today you could make the case that they're still the dominant life form.
I get it. Everything about the activity is fake, answers are generally unhelpful and people hate doing them. Never been a fan of discussion questions for that reason. I would be pretty tempted to use AI if admins were making me answer discussion questions on topics I don't care about.
How dumb can you be to use ChatGPT and not realise how unrealistic and non-usable is the answer?
Does your school offer Copy Leaks? Use it and they earn 0 for using AI.
As a "super user" of AI myself, I feel that if a robot can write it, it might not be a great assignment or activity, to begin with ( I feel the same about cover letters or anything else that can be automated.) I have only used online postings for readings that we didn't have time to discuss in class, and I asked them to talk to each other casually, the same way we do in class or like we do here on Reddit. Authentic and purposeful. I find too many professors assign online postings just because "that's just what you do," and it's crap. What is the point of this assignment?: * Is it to practice peer critiquing? * Pacing? * Practice writing academically? * Do they not have time to discuss the reading in class? Does it need to be discussed? ( Profs that are too text-dependent drive me crazy. A text is to supplement instruction, not be the sole driver of instruction. Otherwise, we could just buy the book and use the PowerPoint with it and teach ourselves.) * Mix it up, have them use AI to answer the question, then critique each other's AI response. Do they agree or disagree with the bot? Was it correct? Did it hallucinate? That is a higher-order level of thinking, anyway. I love doing that because they figure out pretty quickly that AI can be wrong A LOT! Play a game of "Bullshit", have it spit out two wrong answers and one correct, and have them figure out which is true. Make it a game. DM if you need it; this is my area of expertise. I consult with higher ed and the private sector about AI.
This is a fully online class, so there is no possibility of in person discussion. These discussions *are* intended to be casual, and it's the easiest part of it (ask an honest question about something you found interesting in the reading) that is getting the worst AI posts. Same with the essays they have to write - the most egregiously AI-written parts of it are the parts where I ask them to say why they chose a certain dinosaur as their favourite. The good students are authentic and purposeful, and casual, sure, but the rest (that is becoming a majority) give me a huge chunk of text spat out of AI. That will always be *easier* than even casually discussing.
Are they getting graded on the verbosity/academic-sounding responses? If not, then have a "come to Jesus" moment, give the problem back to them, and ask why they are doing it. Have a recording of yourself saying, "ok, these are chatGPT, responses. Why are you choosing this? No punishment, I promise. Is it boring? Do you not see the point? Do you not know what to say? Are you not confident in your writing abilities? What is the issue here?" (9 times out of 10, they are honest and will tell you if they trust you won't retaliate) I have found that to be the most effective. Good luck.
They definitely are not, I ask them to be casual! In my in-person classes I had that sort of talk with them before they submitted their essays, and the result does appear that their essays are more authentic. For the online students all I can do is post announcements - and they ignore those...
I get it. I do. If you have emailed or group chatted, or texted (I have done that before using google voice) them saying "OK, enough of the ChatGPT or you get a zero." then give them zeros. I was at a private SLAC where we were expected to handhold them, and I would reach out. But I get what you are saying. You do you. If it were me, I would not have them do that anymore and have post a video response instead.
How would you not get a student on video reading a script written by AI? You are not offering the solutions you think you are.
Standard consulting practice. It’s more about convincing others that you’ve offered a solution.
and what is it called when people criticize others but offer no solutions of their own?
Not being arrogant? You’ll note OP didn’t actually ask for a “solution”.
It was not labeled "vent"
hoo-wee now I remember why I stopped commenting on ai posts, people get nasty. OP was asking for ideas,I was giving ideas to mix it up. What ideas are you offering? none? got it. cheating had been around since education was invented. If someone wants to work that hard to cheat, so be it, at the end of the day cheaters cheat themselves, most won't.
No. At no point did OP ask for ideas. OP asked if other people were burned out. Then you showed up and started telling the people who admitted to feeling burned out that perhaps the source of their burnout was - wait for it - our own incompetence. You literally added insult to injury. So stop commenting. I don’t see anyone here appreciating your fine advice. Go find a for profit college that does.
Yikes big guy. Have a better day.
Unsubscribe.
idk. The user below I think articulated the reason ; people are getting tired of having to break backs to accommodate new tech.. OP was looking for suggestions, I offered examples, I train peope on this sh*t for a living. , don't want to hear about it, keep scrolling. you know? If someone asked about neurobiology, I keep my mouth shut. Someone asks about AI applications, I offer what I've got. How dare a woman express being knowledgeable about something? No clue. Of course the onus is split between prof and student. however never hurts to try other ways. If OP wanted to just vent, have at it, Want ideas ? I'll offer what I can.
I don't know why you've been downvoted, I genuinely like your idea of getting them to use AI and then do the research of fact checking it. If you can't beat them, join them! Also might highlight to them early on just how ineffective AI can be at answering their assignments. Be good for a task in the first few weeks of the course.
She is being downvoted because her response comes across as very condescending. OP clearly delineated what the discussion was about and that the students were being encouraged to offer their own opinion about something, and they chose to shirk the instructions. Not every assignment or activity has to become an AI-based activity. It's exhausting and takes away from the crux of the work half the time. The suggestion that something must be wrong with what the prof is doing if students are cutting corners is the most egregious thing because, once again, the onus is put on us to climb mountains to supplement the students' learning in increasingly novel and engaging ways (as if the COVID hurdles weren't enough). Many of us are extremely fed up.
Unfortunately, this type of assignment is not going to work for long. The older models (from 2022/23) hallucinated a lot. The newer models like ChatGPT-4o, Gemini 1.5, and Claude Opus have mostly (though not 100%) no longer are plagued with frequent hallucinations.
Exactly. Lately I’ve found that suspected AI papers even cite real academic articles that are behind a paywall. The problem is that my school doesn’t have access to those sources, so I can only check that the article exists, not that it actually contains the cited information. The student could argue that they used the interlibrary loan system to access the article even though I know that’s unlikely.
I'm disallowing academic articles for this reason, which stings because it's what I most want them to use!
I’m considering having students just use electronic sources and then upload them to a dropbox, so I’m saved the work of having to dig for the source myself. I don’t think AI has the ability to do that yet, either.
I like this idea. I wonder if I could also somehow require them to visually annotate each source they upload (building source annotation into the assignment requirements and rubrics, with specific criteria for those annotations, etc.)