you know what's funny about Elon critics? an awful lot of them know what they're talking about.. it's the people who don't who are still falling for the grift
I just got preemptively banned from r/TeslaMotors and r/ElonMusk for this comment, and I don’t even follow those subs. 😂
Don’t worry guys I had no intention of following your sychophantic echo-chambers. 😂
So wait, they spent 8 years to launch 11 successive versions of a self driving system that absolutely did not work. Only to completely scrap it, start over with a new system….which also does not seem to work? Are we taking bets as to how many years it would take them to get this system functional?
They had a functional system that incorporated car based radar. That's the one that made the news. The one that would swerve slightly to correct for drivers, brake reliably, and in one case even slowed down to anticipate a traffic event several cars ahead.
The company [MobileEye] they were using for the vision detection/data processing element freaked out and said their application was wildly outside of the usage specs and would in no way guarantee Tesla's work. They basically told Tesla to stop using their gear in that way.
That's when Elong decided that pure VISION based FSD was the way forward. Not because of the inherent benefits of using cameras or superior coding of anything. It's because he was going to get sued for Going Fast and Breaking Shit.
Edit: not that the original iteration was actually Level 5 Carputer Driving or whatever.
>Are we taking bets as to how many years it would take them to get this system functional?
They're going to scrap the whole system. Both approaches are seriously flawed.
He tried to rewrite the entire stack for windows instead of linux at PayPal when he was ceo. The board fired him because it was a batshit crazy thing to do.
Elon defaults to rewrites and prefers rubber-stamp boards because the two haven't been compatible for him in the past.
Is this whole schtick about having 5million cars on the road from which to learn actually true? How much data would the car actually need to be a) recording and b) sending back over GPRS? surely this would be cost prohibitive.
>a) recording and b) sending back over GPRS? surely this would be cost prohibitive.
definitely cost prohibitive and nearly impossible. you think Tesla would pay for the cell bandwidth required for this? we're talking about a company is removing things (like interior buttons) to make the BOM per car as low as possible
Along this point I always imagined Tesla’s self-writing code to be a complete mess. Does it ever get cleaned up?
Edit: lol banned from r/teslamotors. What a fucking joke
Edit 2: Btw I reported the mods of r/teslamotors at the [following link.](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=19300233728916) I’m not a toxic Tesla hater at all costs. I just like spirited discussion on both sides. It’s ridiculous I’m banned from a sub because they don’t like anyone who posts here. I’m a mod of a NFL team sub and it’s like if I banned everyone from our rival sub. It’s stupid and ridiculous.
They’d need to have all 5 million cars running the software and collecting the data. You can’t train the algorithm in driving data from human drivers since they will drive correctly, most of the time.
How does that Rahman guy confidently write such nonsense? He clearly doesn’t understand neural networks. Wonder if the idiot even has a Tesla or has even turned on FSD.
The problem with end-to-end use of neural networks, even if it outperforms classic or hybrid approaches, it will be difficult to make a safety case for it.
Tesla says they have been using neural nets since they dropped MobileEye.
https://electrek.co/2019/11/11/tesla-train-neural-networks-self-driving-video/
I wager the answer is whatever sounds best at the time.
Hmm, I’d think that machine learning bounded by explicit rules would be the best approach. You can’t feasibly code rules for every scenario, but at the same time you can’t train a model for every scenario. Those undefined cases are potentially dangerous in either case, but I’d feel slightly better if there were some hardcoded rules attempting to prevent a pure AI implementation from going murder hobo the first time it sees a strawberry.
lol still want to know what happen in the last year that would cause fsd to want to merge into a turn lane when it knows my destination has zero turns for x amount of miles!!!! 🤬
To simp this hard for a megalomaniac billionaire is mind-blowing to me. The only thing Elon has accomplished is delaying any real progress with vehicle automation due to his reckless bullshit that's eventually going to lead to tight regulation... which we now need because of him.
With neural networks will still be edge cases only funny thing is that unless you have some "guard rail" program in place the chance for "unpredictable behaviour" is even higher... Because you know. 3-5 tonne vehicles with katana edge corners should be unpredictable but only sometime
V12 is impressive in a lot of cases, but I'm still amazed that it can't slow down consistently or avoid randomly tailgating the car in front of it. Given how good some of the core behaviors are, its failures are bizarre.
I'm less shocked by some of the struggles with blind corners, though. After seeing it multiple times and seeing more online reports of similar issues, it seems like a training issue. It can't recognize the difficulty of some intersections in its current form.
Yeah, it all comes down to expectations. I don't see how the folks expecting robotaxis could see it as anything but an extreme disappointment.
I had lower expectations for the product and it missed them by smaller margins. :rofl
What I mean is getting to not crashing 99 times out of 100 is something more or less any company can do. It's that last 1% that's pretty much impossible. It's obviously completely impossible with Tesla's inadequate camera system.
you know what's funny about Elon critics? an awful lot of them know what they're talking about.. it's the people who don't who are still falling for the grift
Elon forgot to load the "Curb" training set into the learning model.
He forgot to load “curb your enthusiasm” music to the car. It should play each time it curbs the wheels.
Maybe it's accidentally learning from cybertruck drivers
Haven’t you seen those Tesla wheel covers advertised all over Reddit? There’s a reason for that.
My inference engine is telling me that Elon is full of shit as usual.
I just got preemptively banned from r/TeslaMotors and r/ElonMusk for this comment, and I don’t even follow those subs. 😂 Don’t worry guys I had no intention of following your sychophantic echo-chambers. 😂
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It's a bot and what's weird is I'm not banned from them and occasionally go over there to shit post.
Now automod is telling everyone to “refrain from commenting” on this situation. Even for jokes. Fun!
Congrats!
You have been convicted by the precrime division.
They're all free-speech absolutists like Elon.
Same. They are doing it to everyone posting here.
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Got to keep those dojo chips busy!
So wait, they spent 8 years to launch 11 successive versions of a self driving system that absolutely did not work. Only to completely scrap it, start over with a new system….which also does not seem to work? Are we taking bets as to how many years it would take them to get this system functional?
They had a functional system that incorporated car based radar. That's the one that made the news. The one that would swerve slightly to correct for drivers, brake reliably, and in one case even slowed down to anticipate a traffic event several cars ahead. The company [MobileEye] they were using for the vision detection/data processing element freaked out and said their application was wildly outside of the usage specs and would in no way guarantee Tesla's work. They basically told Tesla to stop using their gear in that way. That's when Elong decided that pure VISION based FSD was the way forward. Not because of the inherent benefits of using cameras or superior coding of anything. It's because he was going to get sued for Going Fast and Breaking Shit. Edit: not that the original iteration was actually Level 5 Carputer Driving or whatever.
>Are we taking bets as to how many years it would take them to get this system functional? They're going to scrap the whole system. Both approaches are seriously flawed.
If they took this long to start using neural nets they are much further behind waymo and zoox than I thought
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Or some anagram of those numbers
2420 baby
The year 69,420AD
Don't forget the new supercomputer called DoJo.
It's all lies and nonsense. Nobody outside Tesla actually knows the details and the latest version of FSD seems no better overall.
He tried to rewrite the entire stack for windows instead of linux at PayPal when he was ceo. The board fired him because it was a batshit crazy thing to do. Elon defaults to rewrites and prefers rubber-stamp boards because the two haven't been compatible for him in the past.
I work in tech and I meet business guys who talk this every day. They know all the words but they don't know what they're saying.
Is this whole schtick about having 5million cars on the road from which to learn actually true? How much data would the car actually need to be a) recording and b) sending back over GPRS? surely this would be cost prohibitive.
>a) recording and b) sending back over GPRS? surely this would be cost prohibitive. definitely cost prohibitive and nearly impossible. you think Tesla would pay for the cell bandwidth required for this? we're talking about a company is removing things (like interior buttons) to make the BOM per car as low as possible
They do. It’s all in the release notes. There’s an option in the car menu whether you wish to share the data with Tesla.
Having a lot of data also isn’t nearly as useful as having good, classified, and labeled datasets. Garbage in, garbage out.
Along this point I always imagined Tesla’s self-writing code to be a complete mess. Does it ever get cleaned up? Edit: lol banned from r/teslamotors. What a fucking joke Edit 2: Btw I reported the mods of r/teslamotors at the [following link.](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=19300233728916) I’m not a toxic Tesla hater at all costs. I just like spirited discussion on both sides. It’s ridiculous I’m banned from a sub because they don’t like anyone who posts here. I’m a mod of a NFL team sub and it’s like if I banned everyone from our rival sub. It’s stupid and ridiculous.
yup yup, they are monitoring this sub, and everyone who posts here just gets banned on the tesla / musk fansubs. I suppose it's no loss
they simply cant get over the problem of having crappy cameras and not enough of them
They’d need to have all 5 million cars running the software and collecting the data. You can’t train the algorithm in driving data from human drivers since they will drive correctly, most of the time.
Assuming you have perfect data, you still need the perfect neural network.
How does that Rahman guy confidently write such nonsense? He clearly doesn’t understand neural networks. Wonder if the idiot even has a Tesla or has even turned on FSD.
>Posting essays on LinkedIn >Black and white profile pic >Overestimating his own profoundness I don’t know man all the signs were there
"Embracing the singularity" is another huge red flag for someone who vastly overestimates the capabilities of existing AI and ML systems.
Plus the nonsensical job title
The problem with end-to-end use of neural networks, even if it outperforms classic or hybrid approaches, it will be difficult to make a safety case for it.
I have strong sence that Tesla didn't go for neutral networks for so long from shear Elon's stubbornness.
Tesla says they have been using neural nets since they dropped MobileEye. https://electrek.co/2019/11/11/tesla-train-neural-networks-self-driving-video/ I wager the answer is whatever sounds best at the time.
Exactly, a lot of what we think we know about Tesla is just fan fiction written by the Stans.
You're quite the Stan yourself there...
Hmm, I’d think that machine learning bounded by explicit rules would be the best approach. You can’t feasibly code rules for every scenario, but at the same time you can’t train a model for every scenario. Those undefined cases are potentially dangerous in either case, but I’d feel slightly better if there were some hardcoded rules attempting to prevent a pure AI implementation from going murder hobo the first time it sees a strawberry.
> use throttle / break etc) instructions There you have it, Tesla unreliability is built into the software.
lol still want to know what happen in the last year that would cause fsd to want to merge into a turn lane when it knows my destination has zero turns for x amount of miles!!!! 🤬
But Elon has been touting the neural net for years in FSD, hand programmed would mean him lying… AGAIN!
At lvl 69 a shift stick is now inserted into the human to become one with the Tesla
I thought it had been marketed as a neural network for years now.
So v12 is really v1 of the neural net architecture. Hopefully this gets better over time!
To simp this hard for a megalomaniac billionaire is mind-blowing to me. The only thing Elon has accomplished is delaying any real progress with vehicle automation due to his reckless bullshit that's eventually going to lead to tight regulation... which we now need because of him.
Garbage
What Tesla is supposedly doing now is exactly how Elon described it before he launched it.... and it didn't work.
With neural networks will still be edge cases only funny thing is that unless you have some "guard rail" program in place the chance for "unpredictable behaviour" is even higher... Because you know. 3-5 tonne vehicles with katana edge corners should be unpredictable but only sometime
"still not effective" could be the motto of FSD
And thy still name it version 12? That should reset too
Wait so FSD stands for Full of s- drivel? *Always has, meme.*
V12 is impressive in a lot of cases, but I'm still amazed that it can't slow down consistently or avoid randomly tailgating the car in front of it. Given how good some of the core behaviors are, its failures are bizarre. I'm less shocked by some of the struggles with blind corners, though. After seeing it multiple times and seeing more online reports of similar issues, it seems like a training issue. It can't recognize the difficulty of some intersections in its current form.
You should not be writing this comment after 10 years of development.
>it can’t avoid tailgating Well, considering that Tesla owners are its training data, it probably thinks it needs to tailgate as much as possible.
It either works to an acceptable safety standard or it doesn't. 'Kind of impressive' is not hard to do.
Yeah, it all comes down to expectations. I don't see how the folks expecting robotaxis could see it as anything but an extreme disappointment. I had lower expectations for the product and it missed them by smaller margins. :rofl
What I mean is getting to not crashing 99 times out of 100 is something more or less any company can do. It's that last 1% that's pretty much impossible. It's obviously completely impossible with Tesla's inadequate camera system.
True, even just doing curb detection is still somehow really difficult for Tesla. \*sigh\*
Agreed. It’s amazing, yet terrible.