Not giving a shit what Pete has to say about anything does not equal saying he wasn't a helluva baseball player. I'm struggling to understand how some of his fan boys don't understand this.
The Pete Rose defenders are wild.
You can say he was a hell of a baseball player but also believe that he's an awful human that doesn't deserve any further actual recognition.
What do *you* know about him? Because the Charles Leerhsen version of Ty Cobb has been [proven to be almost completely fabricated](https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2020/05/16/ty-cobb-detroit-tigers-racist-hamtramck-stadium-negro-leagues/3110323001/).
I'm not speaking on the accusations of him being a racist but those of him gambling on baseball. Tris speaker and those close to him have spoken about both he and ty fixing games they bet on.
Same with Ohtani, ffs! Yeah, 1/4 of your money is missing and you are not in on it. That is a culture of gambling sorry. ASian culture. Go to a race track or casino, they love it!
I don't understand how two things can't be true at once. I would hope no one would ever defend Rose. It's not even about his opinion even in my eyes. It's about how MLB will handle their star if/when it's proven he was involved in all this.
If they are going to ban any player, even Rose from baseball (for gambling) than it should apply to every other player.
If Shohei signs a ban to stop the investigation like Pete did he will get the same punishment and we can also assume that the investigation would have shown stuff that was worse than banishment.
1. The people that were in the room to make the decision on Pete Rose are not the people in the room to make the decision on Ohtani.
2. The people who are in the room to make the decision on Ohtani are the ones who have significantly softened the league's punitive stance on Rose, such that he has been able to officially participate in club activities, and have allowed his number officially retired.
>I don't care about his opinion.
Kind of like your opinion on baseball is useless to me since you seem to focus on things that have nothing to do with hitting a slider or stealing a base.
I have a wife and care about women as well....so I guess? I'm confused about your comment.
Am I not allowed to have a problem with Pete Rose sleeping with children?
Pete is a piece of shit and so is anyone who defends him. He accepted a lifetime ban to keep mlb from digging up worse shit on him. He’s a pedo, pathological liar etc etc please stop.
You have zero idea how MLB will handle whatever comes of this.
I love watching Ohtani. I'm a huge fan.
If there's proof he bet on baseball and on Angels games (Sometimes, Angels games didn't look like baseball.), he deserves the same consequences Pete Rose got because that's the rule and it's posted everywhere in clubhouses.
Adding to what everyone else said here, there’s also still the substantial difference that there are no allegations that any of the betting involved baseball. That’s already a huge difference from Pete Rose, even supposing Ohtani actually was the one doing the gambling.
In any case, Ohtani is a gem that everyone loves and Pete Rose is a ghoul who refuses to go away now matter how much we try to exorcise him. There’s no comparison.
It's completely hypothetical. If Ohtani was betting on baseball than yes, it's the the same thing regarding how MLB reacts to that. Anything about what disgusting things Rose did in his personal life has nothing to do with what will happen if it turns out Ohtani was basically doing the same thing as Rose was.
If Ohtani was even betting, one. Second, the betting on baseball aspect is even more hypothetical, as it seems all of the betting was on other sports.
If you think it’s just about the betting, you’re absolutely wrong. Part of what got Rose banned was being an absolute asshole that people didn’t like. It’s like the soft ban on Trevor Bauer - any team that wants to *could* sign him, but no one does because every clubhouse he’s ever been in hates him. What separates him from Rose was they actually had grounds to ban him, so official action got taken. Reputation and relationships are the key to survival of penalties.
Well I was 7 when he was banned so I'm not surprised I didn't remember it well. I have always thought it was very simple. He was caught and accepted the ban because he knew he was caught and didn't want his personal life looked into.
Regardless, do you think that if it does turn out that Ohtani was betting on baseball should he get a lifetime ban?
Maybe? There’s a lot of conditions that have to be tripped before we even get there I think. Rose wasn’t just betting on baseball, he was betting on games he was personally involved in.
If it turns out Ohtani was gambling and not betting on baseball, suspension, orders to get treatment for a gambling problem. If betting on baseball, maybe a full season. If tampering with his own games, life.
Granted, I don’t think there’s enough evidence to accurately guess at what will happen. The whole story is so opaque right now, so it’s impossible to know its severity yet. Right now, it looks like he skates by - Ippei seems like the target for now.
Very good points. I appreciate the response. I agree with all of this.
It'll be interesting and probably sad to see how all this does play out. I hope he's telling the truth. I am by no means a Dodgers fan but baseball already needs all the help it can get these days. Losing Ohtani would be a huge blow not just for him and his team but baseball in general.
I guess time will tell. I just thought it was an interesting parallel to wonder about.
For sure! I live in Los Angeles. The Dodgers are beloved in a way that I don’t think I ever saw with the Reds or the Guardians when I lived in Ohio. Getting Ohtani was a huge deal, because (despite everyone outside of LA County looking at the Dodgers as the evil empire of baseball), he’s viewed as the chance to finally make the Dodgers a dynasty, which he’s supposed to be the face of.
Losing him would be a hell of a blow and would massively set baseball back. We’re just starting to see it grow for the first time in decades. To lose the biggest name in baseball to a scandal would crush any momentum.
There's definitely no denying the love LA has for the team. Hell every home game seems like it's the World Series (in a good way). I love this pic and wish I could post it in this comment but it's of the young Reds players looking like children meeting their hero when Ohtani was on second. The whole infield went over to him looking like they couldn't believe how cool it was to be in the presence of greatness. It was definitely a great moment from last year.
Most of us are here because we like winning baseball. We’re not pondering which player on the team we would trust to date our daughter. Baseball history is full of people who were unpleasant IRL.
Pete brought winning baseball to Cincinnati, both as a player and a manager. That’s why the city named a street after him. You’re entitled to your opinion about him, but any effort to cancel him needs to stop.
I think 2 things can be true at once. Rose can be a horrible person that has done unforgivable things but also be a great baseball player. That's beside the point anyway because this is only about gambling and how MLB will go about handling this with Ohtani when we've seen them ban Rose for life. They didn't ban him because he's a piece of shit.
I'm very simply wondering if MLB will apply the same punishment to Ohtani as Rose if it's proven he's guilty of what Rose was. That's all. I don't get how we can't look at the parallels without being said to support Rose because I think the rules should be enforced fairly.
Idk. Maybe I'm crazy
I think we’re on the same side. If Ohtani bet on baseball, he should get a lifetime ban, too. We just don’t know everything Ohtani did yet. I would rather let the process play out than jump to conclusions.
That's exactly what I'm trying to convey as well. I'm by no means trying to imply that he's guilty. I'm only wondering how it would be handled IF he ends up being guilty.
So yeah, I definitely would never promote any kind of punishment without rock solid evidence. It's just a thought that passed through my mind when seeing this article. I probably should have kept it to myself.
Pete didn't bring winning baseball to Cincinnati lol. The team consisting of 5+ HOF caliber level players did. He wasn't even the best player on the BRM.
Pete Rose was a lying piece of shit pedophile that drug the name of Cincinnati Reds through the mud for decades.
People aren't canceling him. He continues to do that all on his own.
He didn’t do it by himself, but he accounted for a lot of runs and clubhouse chemistry as a member of the Big Red Machine. You don’t win baseball games without scoring runs.
As a manager, his teams consistently finished in second place in a 6-team division. That’s a playoff berth by today’s standard. The 21st Century Reds rarely spend time in second place and haven’t done more than sniff the playoffs.
If you replace Pete Rose with a guy that hits .260 the BRM still likely wins. They were a juggernaut.
Also, a team is usually good or bad regardless of the manager. Overall, the manager doesn't account for that many wins. Especially in that era of baseball where you didn't use bullpen as much or have nearly as many switches or nuances rules.
This subreddit has such a bizarre view of Pete and it's a good reminder how atypical the average Reddit poster is of the Cincy area.
Walk into any sports bar in town and say something bad about Pete Rose and you'll get punched and/or tossed out. On here, you post something nice about Pete and you get downvoted off the page.
Pete probably has a 90% approval rating among Reds fans, but you'd think it was damn near zero if you thought this subreddit represented actual Reds fandom.
I don't understand how we can't acknowledge how good Rose was without that meaning we somehow support abuse. Just like art you can love the art but not support the artists actions in their personal life.
You're very right. It's just weird to see Rose get so much hate on Reddit but see him get so much love in Cincy in real life.
Maybe it's because the people in here are a little more educated on the subject and know that not only was Pete not a baseball god but that he is also a lying pedophile that doesn't deserve praise?
Could be it. Maybe I'm off base.
I'm meaning more knowledgeable about Reds baseball overall than the average Cincinnati sports fan.
In my experience, we have a very stuck in the past fanbase who aren't all the knowledgeable and caught up on how baseball operates.
This sub definitely has a lot of people that are very intelligent and know so much about the team and the game in general. I can't deny that. I use this sub to help keep up with every possible move that happens with the team so I see where you're coming from.
Yeah. I'm absolutely not saying that redditors are overall smarter than the average person. I've seen enough absolutely awful opinions on here to know that.
> Maybe it's because the people in here are a little more educated
That's certainly what the average Redditor thinks, if that was the point you're trying to make.
I'm meaning that they may be more well rounded and have more general knowledge on the ins and outs of baseball for Cincinnati than your average fan that goes to opening day and yells who dey while drinking 10 beers.
Not that they are smarter people in general.
I think the average mentality here is to overreact to me too type accusations and to judge someone entirely based off of one single thing they read about them online. I'd call it a naive, overly optimistic and glossy view of the world. Nobody's perfect. You can't hate everyone. Forgiveness is a real thing. People here are too young and inexperienced to have had anything bad happen to them or their loved ones.
The fuck? Me too accusations?
Pete admitted to it. He said he thought she was 16 and in 10th grade living with her parents while he was in his 30s and married with a daughter. Her and her mother both claim she was 14 or 15 throughout the times that it happened.
How am I overreacting by saying he's a pedophile?
Most Redditors are too young to have seen him play. And they’re steeped in a much more salacious media culture than Pete enjoyed during his career.
If you didn’t see him play and all you’ve done is read about him, your opinion is going to be skewed negatively.
> If you didn’t see him play and all you’ve done is read about him, your opinion is going to be skewed negatively.
I don't even think this is necessarily true. I'm too young to have watched him play, but there are plenty of players that that is also true for that I don't have a negative view of. I can still read about them and watch highlights and visit their BBRef pages to admire their statistics.
If Joey Votto was outed for 'dating' underage girls while he was in his 30's, I would have a negative view of him despite having watched him for his whole career.
> If Joey Votto was outed for 'dating' underage girls while he was in his 30's, I would have a negative view of him despite having watched him for his whole career.
fuck I only have disdain for Rose because he's just sorta been a piece of shit my whole life and I never watched him play, if god forbid Votto did something like that I would be fucking pissed. I wouldn't just have a negative view, my rage would be volcanic
So could you elaborate on why our view of Pete Rose is “bizarre”? Even the most generous interpretation of what he did with an underage girl makes him a really gross person. So I’m kind of interested in hearing the argument against that.
He was good at baseball therefore it’s ok?
It's because most people don't know he diddled kids. Obviously most here do, but in real life, I think I'm the only person in my family and extended group of friends/family friends that knows that about Pete (before I told some of them anyway).
In the time it took you to type out and post that blatant lie, you could have Googled this topic and found that the girl (single, not plural) was 16 or 17 at the time. At the time that was legally and culturally acceptable. My grandma was married at 16 not long before then, and she had 2 kids by 18. Times change.
My parents told me stories that most of the Reds had "girlfriends" on the side that were still in high school at the time. A lot of those same girls would go out and try to pick up Dodger players back when they were our big rival and would come to town.
No. Pete claims she was 16. Her and her mother say she was better 14-15.
She was still in school and living with her parents. Pete was in his 30s, married and had a daughter.
STOP DEFENDING THIS FUCKING SHIT
It’s literally the first line of this Washington Post story. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/01/woman-says-she-had-sexual-relationship-with-pete-rose-as-an-underage-teen/
Oh ok so he admitted to fucking a 16 year old girl (despite her claims she was 14-15 at the time) while he was married with children. You’re right, he’s practically a saint and we’re all wrong to call him a disgusting piece of shit every time his name is brought up.
It has nothing to do with what Rose thinks imo. It's simply about comparing the gambling situation and wondering if Ohtani was in fact betting on baseball would MLB want to ban him.
It's weird to see how much love Rose gets in real life compared to how this sub thinks about him. I would never even begin to try to justify what Rose has done off the field. That's irrelevant to me wondering how MLB would deal with this if it's a worst case scenario for Ohtani.
Yeah, is it really that bad to fuck kids? Pete’s just a man’s man who says it like it is! I bet he didn’t even do it. I heard Bud Harrelson did though.
Anyone with any sense looks at this scandal and realizes things don’t add up at all. MLB spent millions of dollars investigating ARod and tried to paint him as a horrible guy. They will not take the same path with Ohtani
I wasn't alive at the time so excuse me if I'm a bit wrong on the details, but didn't Rose get in trouble for betting on games when he was a manager, which was only in the 80s? Is him saying "I wish I had a translator in the 70s and 80s" him inadvertently admitting he was also betting as a player in the 70s? Or was him betting as a player in the 70s already public info?
Unrelated to my previous paragraph, but I wonder if that user who was here in the thread about this same topic the other day will show up again. He said "Ohtani definitely bet on games he was playing in", when I asked where that proof was he basically said "well it's just obvious!" so without the details of the investigation finalized that Rose should be in the HoF because "they did the same thing" basically. And also then proceeded to compare Rose and Votto, as people, saying they're both equally as bad of humans 🥴
There's no proof that Ohtani was betting on his own games yet. It's a bunch of smoke but no fire found or released to the public at least yet. I find it pretty hard to believe that he had nothing to do with this. We shall see though.
They said Votto is equally as horrible as Rose??? I don't understand how anyone could think that. Rose is a pedophile. That's really all that needs to be said about that.
Yes, my opinion on the situation is wait to see where the dust settles and what the investigation finds. No point in speculating otherwise. The other guy was adamant that Ohtani did just as much as Rose did, ergo Rose should be unbanned/in the HoF (and then said I was "extremely heartbroken" over the Ohtani situation all because I said it's overall a bad look for baseball).
His comparison of Rose and Votto was that, verbatim, "Votto's skeletons havent been dug out his closet yet."
Dude was off his rocker.
Yea that's absolutely insane. I wonder what they think Votto did???
Anyway I agree that we should wait for the facts to come out. I can't help but wonder what MLB will do if their biggest cash cow is in fact guilty of this though. Just a random thought....
>There's no proof that Ohtani was betting on his own games yet
Will you eat your shoes when it comes out? It won't be any time soon, ofc. Baseball will shield him for now is he's their poster child, member of the dodgers and a non white icon.
I would is I was one of the people that refuse to accept that he might be guilty but I'm not one of those people. That's what I meant when I said "yet".
> I was one of the people that refuse to accept that he might be guilty
Weird. I was always one of those people that didn't give a fuck, because I watch baseball for the baseball. My role model is my dad, not some fuckwit gambling addict kiddie diddler, so it doesn't emotionally wreck me when he gets caught... watch baseball for the stats, not the "heroes." Also, Ohtani bet on baseball. Make peace with that too, lol.
It was a typo. The first "I" was meant to be "if" asshole. If you read the comment that seems very clear and there's a reason you're the only one that couldn't see that.
Where the hell are you getting the idea that either Rose or Ohtani are my heros lol? You're just making up nonsense.
> Where the hell are you getting the idea that either Rose or Ohtani are my heros lol?
From your frothing at the mouth fervent defense of a dude that bet on baseball and got caught, even though you know the MLB will shield him.
Please since you're enjoying making no sense quote all these posts where I'm defending him because if you actually read the comments I was very clear about not in any way supporting his disgusting behavior.
You know what. I don't care. Whatever you say man.
Fine. You're not defending him. You're giving him the benefit of the doubt. That's the same in my book, provided even the limited stuff that is out now.
I really don’t care much about what Pete Rose has to say on the topic. I don’t trust much of anything he has to say. Ohtani hasn’t been convicted of anything, so we should let it play out before jumping to any conclusions.
It’s 2024. No fucking way Ohtani bet on baseball. He’d have to be the dumbest motherfucker alive.
Pete Rose was a notorious gambler who frequented River Downs and Keeneland, probably had ties to the mob, and almost assuredly had way worse things to hide than betting on baseball.
Actually I would, only because I don't like the way he and the Dodgers have manipulated the whole salary system to create a billion dollar roster practically but circumvent it by "deferring" all the money until later. This whole system is fucked.
It's not a player's responsibility to ensure competitive balance within the league. That's the responsibility of the league and its teams. The only thing a player should ever be concerned with is earning as much money as they can with the limited time that they have as a professional athlete. Because once they hit 40 their ability to earn income drops precipitously. And that's not even considering the years of life that they shave off themselves for the sake of knocking a ball around a field for our benefit.
Your problem is one hundered percent the fault and responsibility of the Los Angeles Dodgers, their ownership and Major League Baseball for condoning it. Don't be shitty at labor for management's missteps.
Or fucking go yell at Castellini to get off his ass and do the same shit.
Ordinarily I would agree, but once I see an individual salary that is more than the salary of 3-4 entire teams combined I personally just lose perspective and blame everyone involved.
Right or wrong, fucked or not, that is how I feel about it. Blow it all up, with everyone involved, and start over.
Pete Rose and Johnny Bench are both respectively some of the best players of all time, however they are both terrible human beings. I really don’t care what either has to say at this point.
Not giving a shit what Pete has to say about anything does not equal saying he wasn't a helluva baseball player. I'm struggling to understand how some of his fan boys don't understand this.
The Pete Rose defenders are wild. You can say he was a hell of a baseball player but also believe that he's an awful human that doesn't deserve any further actual recognition.
What do you know about Ty Cobb?
What do *you* know about him? Because the Charles Leerhsen version of Ty Cobb has been [proven to be almost completely fabricated](https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2020/05/16/ty-cobb-detroit-tigers-racist-hamtramck-stadium-negro-leagues/3110323001/).
I'm not speaking on the accusations of him being a racist but those of him gambling on baseball. Tris speaker and those close to him have spoken about both he and ty fixing games they bet on.
better than being a pedo
Same with Ohtani, ffs! Yeah, 1/4 of your money is missing and you are not in on it. That is a culture of gambling sorry. ASian culture. Go to a race track or casino, they love it!
> deserve any further actual recognition. True. Deserves no further recognition other than his baseball accolades. Where are they?
He's had plenty. Labeled the hit king. Tons of awards. Reds hall of fame. Number retired for the Reds. Etc
>Reds hall of fame Where's the "this is worth nothing" meme? You can't go all in with your reds hall of fame resume.
Pete fucked kids. I don't care about his opinion.
I don't understand how two things can't be true at once. I would hope no one would ever defend Rose. It's not even about his opinion even in my eyes. It's about how MLB will handle their star if/when it's proven he was involved in all this. If they are going to ban any player, even Rose from baseball (for gambling) than it should apply to every other player.
If Shohei signs a ban to stop the investigation like Pete did he will get the same punishment and we can also assume that the investigation would have shown stuff that was worse than banishment.
Very true. I hope that's not the case for everyone's sake.
1. The people that were in the room to make the decision on Pete Rose are not the people in the room to make the decision on Ohtani. 2. The people who are in the room to make the decision on Ohtani are the ones who have significantly softened the league's punitive stance on Rose, such that he has been able to officially participate in club activities, and have allowed his number officially retired.
>I don't care about his opinion. Kind of like your opinion on baseball is useless to me since you seem to focus on things that have nothing to do with hitting a slider or stealing a base.
You keep supporting pedophiles and liars. That's on you.
Whatever you say, nerd. I'm gonna keep watching baseball, while you watch Housewives of whatever, since that's you seem concerned with.
I have a wife and care about women as well....so I guess? I'm confused about your comment. Am I not allowed to have a problem with Pete Rose sleeping with children?
Pete is a piece of shit and so is anyone who defends him. He accepted a lifetime ban to keep mlb from digging up worse shit on him. He’s a pedo, pathological liar etc etc please stop.
>Pete is a piece of shit and so is anyone who defends him. Irrelevant to getting 4200+ hits.
This has nothing to do with defending Rose's disgusting life. it's pointing out a potential hypocrisy in how MLB handles situations like this.
You have zero idea how MLB will handle whatever comes of this. I love watching Ohtani. I'm a huge fan. If there's proof he bet on baseball and on Angels games (Sometimes, Angels games didn't look like baseball.), he deserves the same consequences Pete Rose got because that's the rule and it's posted everywhere in clubhouses.
You're saying exactly what I'm saying
Adding to what everyone else said here, there’s also still the substantial difference that there are no allegations that any of the betting involved baseball. That’s already a huge difference from Pete Rose, even supposing Ohtani actually was the one doing the gambling. In any case, Ohtani is a gem that everyone loves and Pete Rose is a ghoul who refuses to go away now matter how much we try to exorcise him. There’s no comparison.
It's completely hypothetical. If Ohtani was betting on baseball than yes, it's the the same thing regarding how MLB reacts to that. Anything about what disgusting things Rose did in his personal life has nothing to do with what will happen if it turns out Ohtani was basically doing the same thing as Rose was.
If Ohtani was even betting, one. Second, the betting on baseball aspect is even more hypothetical, as it seems all of the betting was on other sports. If you think it’s just about the betting, you’re absolutely wrong. Part of what got Rose banned was being an absolute asshole that people didn’t like. It’s like the soft ban on Trevor Bauer - any team that wants to *could* sign him, but no one does because every clubhouse he’s ever been in hates him. What separates him from Rose was they actually had grounds to ban him, so official action got taken. Reputation and relationships are the key to survival of penalties.
Well I was 7 when he was banned so I'm not surprised I didn't remember it well. I have always thought it was very simple. He was caught and accepted the ban because he knew he was caught and didn't want his personal life looked into. Regardless, do you think that if it does turn out that Ohtani was betting on baseball should he get a lifetime ban?
Maybe? There’s a lot of conditions that have to be tripped before we even get there I think. Rose wasn’t just betting on baseball, he was betting on games he was personally involved in. If it turns out Ohtani was gambling and not betting on baseball, suspension, orders to get treatment for a gambling problem. If betting on baseball, maybe a full season. If tampering with his own games, life. Granted, I don’t think there’s enough evidence to accurately guess at what will happen. The whole story is so opaque right now, so it’s impossible to know its severity yet. Right now, it looks like he skates by - Ippei seems like the target for now.
Very good points. I appreciate the response. I agree with all of this. It'll be interesting and probably sad to see how all this does play out. I hope he's telling the truth. I am by no means a Dodgers fan but baseball already needs all the help it can get these days. Losing Ohtani would be a huge blow not just for him and his team but baseball in general. I guess time will tell. I just thought it was an interesting parallel to wonder about.
For sure! I live in Los Angeles. The Dodgers are beloved in a way that I don’t think I ever saw with the Reds or the Guardians when I lived in Ohio. Getting Ohtani was a huge deal, because (despite everyone outside of LA County looking at the Dodgers as the evil empire of baseball), he’s viewed as the chance to finally make the Dodgers a dynasty, which he’s supposed to be the face of. Losing him would be a hell of a blow and would massively set baseball back. We’re just starting to see it grow for the first time in decades. To lose the biggest name in baseball to a scandal would crush any momentum.
There's definitely no denying the love LA has for the team. Hell every home game seems like it's the World Series (in a good way). I love this pic and wish I could post it in this comment but it's of the young Reds players looking like children meeting their hero when Ohtani was on second. The whole infield went over to him looking like they couldn't believe how cool it was to be in the presence of greatness. It was definitely a great moment from last year.
At this point Shohei and Pete aren’t really comparable. If it does turn out that Shohei bet on baseball then yeah throw him the book.
That's where I stand. The last thing I meant to do was make it seem like I support Rose's disgusting behavior.
Most of us are here because we like winning baseball. We’re not pondering which player on the team we would trust to date our daughter. Baseball history is full of people who were unpleasant IRL. Pete brought winning baseball to Cincinnati, both as a player and a manager. That’s why the city named a street after him. You’re entitled to your opinion about him, but any effort to cancel him needs to stop.
I think 2 things can be true at once. Rose can be a horrible person that has done unforgivable things but also be a great baseball player. That's beside the point anyway because this is only about gambling and how MLB will go about handling this with Ohtani when we've seen them ban Rose for life. They didn't ban him because he's a piece of shit. I'm very simply wondering if MLB will apply the same punishment to Ohtani as Rose if it's proven he's guilty of what Rose was. That's all. I don't get how we can't look at the parallels without being said to support Rose because I think the rules should be enforced fairly. Idk. Maybe I'm crazy
I think we’re on the same side. If Ohtani bet on baseball, he should get a lifetime ban, too. We just don’t know everything Ohtani did yet. I would rather let the process play out than jump to conclusions.
That's exactly what I'm trying to convey as well. I'm by no means trying to imply that he's guilty. I'm only wondering how it would be handled IF he ends up being guilty. So yeah, I definitely would never promote any kind of punishment without rock solid evidence. It's just a thought that passed through my mind when seeing this article. I probably should have kept it to myself.
That was actually a good example because Pete would actually date your daughter!
Pete didn't bring winning baseball to Cincinnati lol. The team consisting of 5+ HOF caliber level players did. He wasn't even the best player on the BRM. Pete Rose was a lying piece of shit pedophile that drug the name of Cincinnati Reds through the mud for decades. People aren't canceling him. He continues to do that all on his own.
He didn’t do it by himself, but he accounted for a lot of runs and clubhouse chemistry as a member of the Big Red Machine. You don’t win baseball games without scoring runs. As a manager, his teams consistently finished in second place in a 6-team division. That’s a playoff berth by today’s standard. The 21st Century Reds rarely spend time in second place and haven’t done more than sniff the playoffs.
If you replace Pete Rose with a guy that hits .260 the BRM still likely wins. They were a juggernaut. Also, a team is usually good or bad regardless of the manager. Overall, the manager doesn't account for that many wins. Especially in that era of baseball where you didn't use bullpen as much or have nearly as many switches or nuances rules.
Hopefully that will change very soon
This subreddit has such a bizarre view of Pete and it's a good reminder how atypical the average Reddit poster is of the Cincy area. Walk into any sports bar in town and say something bad about Pete Rose and you'll get punched and/or tossed out. On here, you post something nice about Pete and you get downvoted off the page. Pete probably has a 90% approval rating among Reds fans, but you'd think it was damn near zero if you thought this subreddit represented actual Reds fandom.
I don't understand how we can't acknowledge how good Rose was without that meaning we somehow support abuse. Just like art you can love the art but not support the artists actions in their personal life. You're very right. It's just weird to see Rose get so much hate on Reddit but see him get so much love in Cincy in real life.
Maybe it's because the people in here are a little more educated on the subject and know that not only was Pete not a baseball god but that he is also a lying pedophile that doesn't deserve praise? Could be it. Maybe I'm off base.
People here are more educated? This is Reddit.
I'm meaning more knowledgeable about Reds baseball overall than the average Cincinnati sports fan. In my experience, we have a very stuck in the past fanbase who aren't all the knowledgeable and caught up on how baseball operates.
This sub definitely has a lot of people that are very intelligent and know so much about the team and the game in general. I can't deny that. I use this sub to help keep up with every possible move that happens with the team so I see where you're coming from.
Yeah. I'm absolutely not saying that redditors are overall smarter than the average person. I've seen enough absolutely awful opinions on here to know that.
> Maybe it's because the people in here are a little more educated That's certainly what the average Redditor thinks, if that was the point you're trying to make.
I'm meaning that they may be more well rounded and have more general knowledge on the ins and outs of baseball for Cincinnati than your average fan that goes to opening day and yells who dey while drinking 10 beers. Not that they are smarter people in general.
I think the average mentality here is to overreact to me too type accusations and to judge someone entirely based off of one single thing they read about them online. I'd call it a naive, overly optimistic and glossy view of the world. Nobody's perfect. You can't hate everyone. Forgiveness is a real thing. People here are too young and inexperienced to have had anything bad happen to them or their loved ones.
The fuck? Me too accusations? Pete admitted to it. He said he thought she was 16 and in 10th grade living with her parents while he was in his 30s and married with a daughter. Her and her mother both claim she was 14 or 15 throughout the times that it happened. How am I overreacting by saying he's a pedophile?
One single thing? Pete has shown plenty of times to everyone what kind of a man he is.
Most Redditors are too young to have seen him play. And they’re steeped in a much more salacious media culture than Pete enjoyed during his career. If you didn’t see him play and all you’ve done is read about him, your opinion is going to be skewed negatively.
> If you didn’t see him play and all you’ve done is read about him, your opinion is going to be skewed negatively. I don't even think this is necessarily true. I'm too young to have watched him play, but there are plenty of players that that is also true for that I don't have a negative view of. I can still read about them and watch highlights and visit their BBRef pages to admire their statistics. If Joey Votto was outed for 'dating' underage girls while he was in his 30's, I would have a negative view of him despite having watched him for his whole career.
> If Joey Votto was outed for 'dating' underage girls while he was in his 30's, I would have a negative view of him despite having watched him for his whole career. fuck I only have disdain for Rose because he's just sorta been a piece of shit my whole life and I never watched him play, if god forbid Votto did something like that I would be fucking pissed. I wouldn't just have a negative view, my rage would be volcanic
I fully understand that Pete was a good baseball player. That doesn't change the fact that he bet on baseball, lied continuously and fucked kids.
> Maybe I'm off base. You are.
So could you elaborate on why our view of Pete Rose is “bizarre”? Even the most generous interpretation of what he did with an underage girl makes him a really gross person. So I’m kind of interested in hearing the argument against that. He was good at baseball therefore it’s ok?
It's because most people don't know he diddled kids. Obviously most here do, but in real life, I think I'm the only person in my family and extended group of friends/family friends that knows that about Pete (before I told some of them anyway).
>He was good at baseball therefore it’s ok? No, dumbass. Baseball fans care about baseball and stats, not what someone else does off the field.
Other than win a world series 50 years ago, what has Pete Rose done for this team and this town?
He admitted to fucking like 14 year old girls. If that’s cool with you just say it so we know where you stand too.
In the time it took you to type out and post that blatant lie, you could have Googled this topic and found that the girl (single, not plural) was 16 or 17 at the time. At the time that was legally and culturally acceptable. My grandma was married at 16 not long before then, and she had 2 kids by 18. Times change.
My parents told me stories that most of the Reds had "girlfriends" on the side that were still in high school at the time. A lot of those same girls would go out and try to pick up Dodger players back when they were our big rival and would come to town.
No. Pete claims she was 16. Her and her mother say she was better 14-15. She was still in school and living with her parents. Pete was in his 30s, married and had a daughter. STOP DEFENDING THIS FUCKING SHIT
It’s literally the first line of this Washington Post story. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/01/woman-says-she-had-sexual-relationship-with-pete-rose-as-an-underage-teen/
Don't move the goalposts. You said: >He admitted to... Now read your link. Now go back to Google and find what Pete admitted to.
Oh ok so he admitted to fucking a 16 year old girl (despite her claims she was 14-15 at the time) while he was married with children. You’re right, he’s practically a saint and we’re all wrong to call him a disgusting piece of shit every time his name is brought up.
It's disingenuous to call him a disgusting piece of shit solely as a baseball player. As a human being outside of the foul lines, yes.
Speaking of being disingenuous……literally no one is arguing his merits as a baseball player. Only as a human being.
>post something nice about Pete and you get downvoted off the page. That's because this sub is flooded with virtue signaling zoomers.
I honestly couldn’t care less what Pete has to say. Wish people around here would stop propping him up.
It has nothing to do with what Rose thinks imo. It's simply about comparing the gambling situation and wondering if Ohtani was in fact betting on baseball would MLB want to ban him. It's weird to see how much love Rose gets in real life compared to how this sub thinks about him. I would never even begin to try to justify what Rose has done off the field. That's irrelevant to me wondering how MLB would deal with this if it's a worst case scenario for Ohtani.
Because this sub skews <40yr old who never saw Rose play and only knew the about all his negatives (Gambling, Underage Kids, Ray Fosse)
Yeah, is it really that bad to fuck kids? Pete’s just a man’s man who says it like it is! I bet he didn’t even do it. I heard Bud Harrelson did though.
Lol. This sub is such a funny collection of virtue signalers.
That’s every big sub on reddit. Gotta let the other internet bros know how righteous you are somehow
Anyone with any sense looks at this scandal and realizes things don’t add up at all. MLB spent millions of dollars investigating ARod and tried to paint him as a horrible guy. They will not take the same path with Ohtani
I wasn't alive at the time so excuse me if I'm a bit wrong on the details, but didn't Rose get in trouble for betting on games when he was a manager, which was only in the 80s? Is him saying "I wish I had a translator in the 70s and 80s" him inadvertently admitting he was also betting as a player in the 70s? Or was him betting as a player in the 70s already public info? Unrelated to my previous paragraph, but I wonder if that user who was here in the thread about this same topic the other day will show up again. He said "Ohtani definitely bet on games he was playing in", when I asked where that proof was he basically said "well it's just obvious!" so without the details of the investigation finalized that Rose should be in the HoF because "they did the same thing" basically. And also then proceeded to compare Rose and Votto, as people, saying they're both equally as bad of humans 🥴
There's no proof that Ohtani was betting on his own games yet. It's a bunch of smoke but no fire found or released to the public at least yet. I find it pretty hard to believe that he had nothing to do with this. We shall see though. They said Votto is equally as horrible as Rose??? I don't understand how anyone could think that. Rose is a pedophile. That's really all that needs to be said about that.
Yes, my opinion on the situation is wait to see where the dust settles and what the investigation finds. No point in speculating otherwise. The other guy was adamant that Ohtani did just as much as Rose did, ergo Rose should be unbanned/in the HoF (and then said I was "extremely heartbroken" over the Ohtani situation all because I said it's overall a bad look for baseball). His comparison of Rose and Votto was that, verbatim, "Votto's skeletons havent been dug out his closet yet." Dude was off his rocker.
Yea that's absolutely insane. I wonder what they think Votto did??? Anyway I agree that we should wait for the facts to come out. I can't help but wonder what MLB will do if their biggest cash cow is in fact guilty of this though. Just a random thought....
>There's no proof that Ohtani was betting on his own games yet Will you eat your shoes when it comes out? It won't be any time soon, ofc. Baseball will shield him for now is he's their poster child, member of the dodgers and a non white icon.
I would is I was one of the people that refuse to accept that he might be guilty but I'm not one of those people. That's what I meant when I said "yet".
> I was one of the people that refuse to accept that he might be guilty Weird. I was always one of those people that didn't give a fuck, because I watch baseball for the baseball. My role model is my dad, not some fuckwit gambling addict kiddie diddler, so it doesn't emotionally wreck me when he gets caught... watch baseball for the stats, not the "heroes." Also, Ohtani bet on baseball. Make peace with that too, lol.
It was a typo. The first "I" was meant to be "if" asshole. If you read the comment that seems very clear and there's a reason you're the only one that couldn't see that. Where the hell are you getting the idea that either Rose or Ohtani are my heros lol? You're just making up nonsense.
> Where the hell are you getting the idea that either Rose or Ohtani are my heros lol? From your frothing at the mouth fervent defense of a dude that bet on baseball and got caught, even though you know the MLB will shield him.
Please since you're enjoying making no sense quote all these posts where I'm defending him because if you actually read the comments I was very clear about not in any way supporting his disgusting behavior. You know what. I don't care. Whatever you say man.
Fine. You're not defending him. You're giving him the benefit of the doubt. That's the same in my book, provided even the limited stuff that is out now.
The benefit of the doubt for what?
My perception of Joey Votto is he wouldn't screw children, so he's instantly a vastly better human than Pete Rose.
Very well put
Oh fuck this guy
I really don’t care much about what Pete Rose has to say on the topic. I don’t trust much of anything he has to say. Ohtani hasn’t been convicted of anything, so we should let it play out before jumping to any conclusions.
Said Pete Rose from a casino
It’s 2024. No fucking way Ohtani bet on baseball. He’d have to be the dumbest motherfucker alive. Pete Rose was a notorious gambler who frequented River Downs and Keeneland, probably had ties to the mob, and almost assuredly had way worse things to hide than betting on baseball.
I hope so.
You underestimate the power arrogance has on people.
Is that what you want? Ohtani banned for life?
Actually I would, only because I don't like the way he and the Dodgers have manipulated the whole salary system to create a billion dollar roster practically but circumvent it by "deferring" all the money until later. This whole system is fucked.
You blame Ohtani and want him punished for the Dodgers just breaking everything with regards to salary? Dude, that's fucked.
He was part of it, he's not innocent in it. He and his agent knew they were going to defer his salary. It was part of the plan.
Very true. He knew what he was doing and was totally a part of it. I mean that's just reality.
It's not a player's responsibility to ensure competitive balance within the league. That's the responsibility of the league and its teams. The only thing a player should ever be concerned with is earning as much money as they can with the limited time that they have as a professional athlete. Because once they hit 40 their ability to earn income drops precipitously. And that's not even considering the years of life that they shave off themselves for the sake of knocking a ball around a field for our benefit. Your problem is one hundered percent the fault and responsibility of the Los Angeles Dodgers, their ownership and Major League Baseball for condoning it. Don't be shitty at labor for management's missteps. Or fucking go yell at Castellini to get off his ass and do the same shit.
Ordinarily I would agree, but once I see an individual salary that is more than the salary of 3-4 entire teams combined I personally just lose perspective and blame everyone involved. Right or wrong, fucked or not, that is how I feel about it. Blow it all up, with everyone involved, and start over.
Pete Rose and Johnny Bench are both respectively some of the best players of all time, however they are both terrible human beings. I really don’t care what either has to say at this point.