The Reds have used 36 different DH’s since it became universal. The most games DH’d:
Tyler Stephenson - 45
Jake Fraley - 37
Jonathan India - 36
Most successful (wRC+) DH with 5 games (20 or more PA):
Tommy Pham - 180
Brandon Drury - 159
Kevin Newman - 159
Initial thoughts looking over the list of DHs we’ve had. We’ve never really had a true DH. We just rotate positions players and treat the DH as a semi-off day.
I actually really like the idea of using it that way, they just haven’t had a lot of good hitters since 2022, so it’s gonna look real bad, numbers-wise
Yeah the reds just don’t have the budget, or maybe the willingness to raise the budget, to pay for a high quality guy who only steps on the field for one at bat every two or three innings
We really rushed his return and then gave him almost no time to find a groove. Votto already was a Candelario-like late starter. He didn’t even get a Spring Training last year. From September to June of no activity and all he got was something like two weeks in Louisville.
The Reds never seemed to have a player who is a true DH. It’s always some AAAA player, a rest day spot for a starter, or a spot for a bench player to get some ABs.
I say the team should forgo the DH and let the pitchers hit…. /s
Edit; wonder if there’s any power hitting players who don’t play the field well next offseason
I think your looking at the data kind of strange. The table is set up to show data for players whose primary position was DH, not when anyone played DH. There shouldn’t be as wide of spread of PA since everyone has a DH. When set to All Players Positional Split as DH the PA are closer and the Reds are 15th in wRC+. Here’s the link
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?lg=all&qual=y&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&season1=2024&season=2022&sortcol=17&sortdir=default&type=8&month=44&pos=all
Thank you, I couldn't see where OP was going with plate appearances. All teams DH plate appearances should be relatively close. OPs table counts ABs for players when not DH-ing, which maybe has some value but isn't great to rank our DH stats against the league.
Hmm, good catch.
That makes it perhaps less dire, but it suggests that the players the reds use to DH are much worse when not DHing. I don't know if that's just noise due to how the Reds use it as a "scheduled day off" (meaning many more players are DHing) or if it suggests anything.
The Reds gave their DH almost 1000 more plate appearances than the Mariners (thats almost double, for the record). I really don't think you understand how wRC+ works if you're going to cite counting stats here.
I'm not going to do this for every team or stat here, but the Reds hit 62 HRs in 2034 plate appearances. That's a rate of 0.03 HR per PA. They're tied with Oakland for that amount, but Oakland has hit 62 HRs in 1497 PAs, or 0.041 HRs per PA.
Let's take a look at Texas, who are *behind* the Reds in HRs at 60, but did it in 1707 PAs. That's a rate of 0.035 *which is still ahead of the Reds*.
Please note that this is *just* looking at HRs, which is what you cited. Each of these teams were also just flat out better in other categories than the Reds were at the DH position despite having fewer plate appearances. Counting stats are literally useless when it comes to this kind of comparison.
Let's put this another way: Do you really think a .238/.313/.385 slash line is good? That's the slash line the Reds DH position has put up in almost 3 full seasons of plate appearances for a normal single player. Compare that to some teams behind them in the counting stats you cited (like Boston with a .275/.339/.442 slashline) and you can implicitly see that counting stats aren't useful here.
I just have to say I admire how much you've delved into this and backed it with so many undeniable stats, as I love to do! Just know you're work here has been appreciated by at least one person!
Always love for your DH to be an auto out
Martini is steadily becoming just that.
With Friedl starting his rehab assignment Martini will be falling out of the lineup very soon.
Reds: oh pitchers can't hit? Neither can bench warming no defense playing bums! Reds fans: why are you the way you are?
The Reds have used 36 different DH’s since it became universal. The most games DH’d: Tyler Stephenson - 45 Jake Fraley - 37 Jonathan India - 36 Most successful (wRC+) DH with 5 games (20 or more PA): Tommy Pham - 180 Brandon Drury - 159 Kevin Newman - 159 Initial thoughts looking over the list of DHs we’ve had. We’ve never really had a true DH. We just rotate positions players and treat the DH as a semi-off day.
I actually really like the idea of using it that way, they just haven’t had a lot of good hitters since 2022, so it’s gonna look real bad, numbers-wise
Yeah the reds just don’t have the budget, or maybe the willingness to raise the budget, to pay for a high quality guy who only steps on the field for one at bat every two or three innings
I had hoped the DH was going to give Votto (we allowed to say that name again?) an extra 5 years. Alas it was not to be.
Am I crazy for thinking he’d still be the perfect DH?
If healthy probably. That shoulder just doesnt seem stable.
We really rushed his return and then gave him almost no time to find a groove. Votto already was a Candelario-like late starter. He didn’t even get a Spring Training last year. From September to June of no activity and all he got was something like two weeks in Louisville.
The Reds never seemed to have a player who is a true DH. It’s always some AAAA player, a rest day spot for a starter, or a spot for a bench player to get some ABs. I say the team should forgo the DH and let the pitchers hit…. /s Edit; wonder if there’s any power hitting players who don’t play the field well next offseason
I think your looking at the data kind of strange. The table is set up to show data for players whose primary position was DH, not when anyone played DH. There shouldn’t be as wide of spread of PA since everyone has a DH. When set to All Players Positional Split as DH the PA are closer and the Reds are 15th in wRC+. Here’s the link https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?lg=all&qual=y&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&season1=2024&season=2022&sortcol=17&sortdir=default&type=8&month=44&pos=all
Thank you, I couldn't see where OP was going with plate appearances. All teams DH plate appearances should be relatively close. OPs table counts ABs for players when not DH-ing, which maybe has some value but isn't great to rank our DH stats against the league.
Hmm, good catch. That makes it perhaps less dire, but it suggests that the players the reds use to DH are much worse when not DHing. I don't know if that's just noise due to how the Reds use it as a "scheduled day off" (meaning many more players are DHing) or if it suggests anything.
Reds DH’s are also 17th in HR and 11th in RBI according to that data.
The Reds gave their DH almost 1000 more plate appearances than the Mariners (thats almost double, for the record). I really don't think you understand how wRC+ works if you're going to cite counting stats here. I'm not going to do this for every team or stat here, but the Reds hit 62 HRs in 2034 plate appearances. That's a rate of 0.03 HR per PA. They're tied with Oakland for that amount, but Oakland has hit 62 HRs in 1497 PAs, or 0.041 HRs per PA. Let's take a look at Texas, who are *behind* the Reds in HRs at 60, but did it in 1707 PAs. That's a rate of 0.035 *which is still ahead of the Reds*. Please note that this is *just* looking at HRs, which is what you cited. Each of these teams were also just flat out better in other categories than the Reds were at the DH position despite having fewer plate appearances. Counting stats are literally useless when it comes to this kind of comparison. Let's put this another way: Do you really think a .238/.313/.385 slash line is good? That's the slash line the Reds DH position has put up in almost 3 full seasons of plate appearances for a normal single player. Compare that to some teams behind them in the counting stats you cited (like Boston with a .275/.339/.442 slashline) and you can implicitly see that counting stats aren't useful here.
I just have to say I admire how much you've delved into this and backed it with so many undeniable stats, as I love to do! Just know you're work here has been appreciated by at least one person!
Joey Votto would have been an excellent DH. Just sayin'.