Your father is smart, might be annoying at times dealing with him and how he views spending too much money but he is smart with money.
Annoyed me the same way when I was a kid thinking we were middle class because my parents were frugal until I was in college and found out how much they actually had.
I have an uncle like this. He was frugal to the point that it annoyed everyone. Had a $7 million home with no furniture for like 8 years. He’s worth about $25m or more now though.
The security to know you'll never run out of money, which gives you peace of mind in case the shit hits the fan with a medical or family. Covid is a good example. The frugal ones had money saved, the non frugal ones had no savings cuz they spent it all on ubereats, eating out and ordering on Amazon
Yes. Had a BIL who worked hard as a cardiologist and died young due to diabetes. Very frugal. Died with probably $5,000,000. The wife he was separated from and her drug addicted kids got all that money.
Unexpected bill? Not a drama
Family member needs help? Here
Had enough of work and need a long break? No problem
Want to treat yourself that will actually mean something? Fine
Want to retire and never worry about money? Sorted.
That's why.
To be fair though if you had £25 million, even if you ignored any and all interest, you could live on £500,000 a year (£41,666 a month) for FIFTY years without having to work before it ran out.
You could literally wipe your ass with money and still have money, assuming you weren't an idiot.
I get the general frugality - like OP's dad is probably just trying to teach him economy and sensibility with money. But living like a drifter when you can afford to live comfortably is plain dumb and kinda selfish. Just give the money away, you know?
There's a line between being smart and being miserly. People with money are usually the last ones to be able to see the difference. In OP's case, Dad sounds a bit miserly, but OP is a perfect example of someone who would end up bankrupt because of frivolous spending.
oh without a doubt. i have older relatives who will refuse to spend money on better insurance so medications would be cheaper. instead they will just “only use it when needed”. COPD doesn’t work like that, yet millions of dollars in the bank + in the market
My family always beat it into my head growing up
"You don't get to have money by spending your money"
Always annoyed me, aside from back to school clothes or birthday shopping, mostly wore clothes from Walmart growing up because "they won't fit you in a month or two anyway!"
Then for my 16th birthday got a solid gold choker with diamonds and opals, with matching ring and earrings!
That really taught me the difference between investing in a "forever" item vs something that won't last, and why it's worth buying the one thing you really want but it's not worth buying the best/ most expensive of everything, every single time.
It’s not smart if you are worried about nickels and dimes at every turn. You are not taking advantage of the freedom you get from having money. Spend some sometimes, splurge, have fun but be smart, live a little.
In many ways, I agree with this comment.
I have a slightly smaller NW than OP’s dad. I see some of these behaviors in myself and in the way my kids look at me. The thing is, though, that I’m completely happy. I struggle to spend more than $7k/ month. I just don’t spend for spending’s sake. I research what I buy on Amazon - because I can and it’s easy. I also use coupons when I have them.
I know that I could spend more and possibly enjoy life more - possibly. But, I enjoy life as it is. I have everything I need and live the life I want. I don’t worry about, nor do I stress about money in any real terms. But, if you asked my kids, they’d probably say that I talk about money all the time. I do. It’s a bit of an interest of mine.
Could I buy a Porsche 911? Sure. Do I want to? Some days, yes. But, I also wanted a jetted tub 20+ years ago when I built my house. We used it regularly for about 3 months. Now it just sits there. There is nothing that a new 911 would get me that my 11 year old MB SL550 won’t.
I think it’s all a matter of perspective.
This is how Warren Buffet is with money. He even used coupons at McDonalds when he took Bill Gates with him to buy his favorite breakfast items from the menu. It’s this kind of mentality that got him to where he’s at now. Wealth is a mindset.
There was a Benz SL55 AMG that I wanted back in high school that went for $130K brand new. I found one recently used for only $11K! 😁 This is why most cars are a bad way to spend money. I’d rather get it for $11K and let the person who bought it new pay for the $120K depreciation! 😆 It would still cost a bit to maintain but it’s far better to pay $11K + maintenance than to waste $130K on something brand new that will only tank in value like a stock market crash.
And sweating over the cheaper stuff should not be worth his time, if he's spending 20 mins to try and save $5 off of that $100 amazon purchase for example he's giving himself $15/hr
Exactly, I don't have his net worth, but I have a comfortable net worth and spend money to keep myself comfortable.
I don't drive an expensive car, I have a 5 year old Honda Hybrid and will probably replace it soon with another Honda or Toyota (I thought I'd be in an EV now, but don't feel that the charging network is ready for long-distance drives yet).
But when it comes to making a few hundred dollar purchase, I just make it, and usually stick to known high-quality brands even though they are more expensive. I'll pay several times more for a North Face or Patagonia jacket, knowing that it'll give me years more service than a no-name jacket that I'll be throwing away in the year when the seams start to split.
Likewise, when I fly, I usually fly first or business class, the convenience and comfort makes it worth the money to me. Though admittedly, if I buy flights for my siblings to go on a trip, I generally put them in Economy and give them the option of paying the difference to upgrade to a higher class (premium economy or business/first).
This is how Warren Buffet is with money. He even used coupons at McDonalds when he took Bill Gates with him to buy his favorite breakfast items from the menu. It’s this kind of mentality that got him to where he’s at now. Wealth is a mindset.
Your dad is who you should be listening to. He’s not “rich”, but he is very wealthy and being unbelievably responsible in a sea of nouveau riche spenders that will end up broke. You will never have to worry about him or take care of him. He is planning for ups and downs but will be safe. Forever. Even when his elder care is $15k a month. Listen and learn from whatever he tells you. This is refreshing, honestly
Edit: fine, I should have said “fuck you” money instead of “rich” for all you pedantic people arguing over the minutiae of rich vs wealthy. I apologize. My point and reasoning stands
4% withdrawal rate of $10m is $400k…. A $400k income at his age probably without a mortgage is fucking rich. Even after tax, that’s $20k+ monthly disposable income. At that point, if he wants a 921, get it and enjoy it. He can’t take his money to the grave.
Also, he’s completely out of touch if he vaguely believes he’s middle class…
Because he still has middle class values and behaviors, he still sees himself as middle class. I find myself in that same boat. You’re correct, though. He is far from middle class.
I read a study years back, and no longer have the citation, but it basically stated that most people perceive themselves to be in the income bracket or class that they grew up in. I.e. if he grew up middle class, he probably still sees himself that way
Haha yea
I read one of op's responses. His dad is heavy in NVDA. Probably time to cash out imo. Or cash out a significant portion and put into VTI or VOO.
Visit r/bogleheads haha
He’s 100% rich. He doesn’t need to work and doesn’t need anyone’s approval to choose his own path and own freedom. Meanwhile, the rest of us toil in mines, are told to vote for a senile by the DNC and by fast food by marketing against our will
He's absolutely rich and is crippling himself with needless anxiety. He has enough in capital to lock up his wealth in bonds and guarantee 500k per year in income.
He doesn't need to worry about his car insurance rates unless he enjoys it, which maybe he does.
I think you mixed up the terms according to their popular usage. He’s not necessarily wealthy (to me he is,) but he’s absolutely rich. Rich, abundance, lots. Americans are a much higher notch than the world average in terms of material ownership, and he’s about the .1 percent of Americans. He’s passed middle class, upper-middle, however you wanna call it; I don’t think bill gates spending like he’s living paycheck to paycheck makes him not rich.
A 2024 survey from Schwab shows Americans believe a net worth of 2.2M is rich.
Financial advisors consider someone with a 5-10M NW ‘very high net worth individual’
Searched ‘what net worth is considered rich’ in google
There's a big difference between wealthy and rich. The lifestyle gap between 15 million and 100 million is fucking immense. My grandfather falls somewhere in the lower middle of that range but he has friends with private jets and mansions in palm springs. Like houses worth his net worth alone. That shit is kind boggling.
Most people don’t care about that gap, what are we gonna do? Fly helicopters everywhere?
If we grew up poor to middle class I can’t imagine most people will throw away all the values that got them there in the first place.
also, he's more middle class than rich. but if he keeps it up, he will do wel...
most millionaires are like this.down low. Madison Avenue is designed to take your money. he knows that
He makes 400k a year (conservative estimate) simply sitting on his ass. That is not middle class income and 10m NW is not middle class wealth. You are delusional.
Yup. Dad is trying to teach OP skills they need to be rich. Living below your means, delayed gratification, not being wasteful when buying something for convenience, tracking and budgeting for the extra costs that come with purchases like new cars, etc.
I disagree.
the father has more than enough money to spend $100 here, $100 there without worrying.
His investments are up and down hundreds of thousands a day (and mostly up these days).
He's not being frugal, he's being a miser.
Engaging in reasonable spending with respect to your net worth and not feel like every purchase is pulling teeth when he can easily afford it, is a much better way to live.
better to enjoy life if you can.
That is a fair perspective. However usually people who build wealth slowly over time happen to do so due to habits spanning decades. Its difficult to overcome them and easy to justify it. I am not saying it might be op's dad's intentions but he is inculcating values and habits that will help OP eventually manage millions rather then become broke. It is much more difficult to maintain wealth than to create it.
Oh happy cake day btw!
thank you! 🍰
I think the issue is striking a balance, which is not always easy to do. I honestly don't have all the answers for myself either.
I think there's a kind of aspirational mindset to not spend too much but also not spend too little either.
you're right though, there could be an educational aspect to it, in which he's intentionally holding back to pass on "frugal genes." I've talked about this with rich friends who intentionally do that as well. live well, but not too well! however, if that's the case, it really sounds like he's gone too far.
he could get hit by a meteor tomorrow and miss out on a lot of fun things and shared memories that he could've easily afforded.
Here's a few excerpts from op's post that make me feel that maybe he isn't going too far...
They go get massages... Not that frugal of a hobby...
Doing research for a $100 item is not that insane especially since we don't know much detail about what things op is talking about...
They have a Tesla model y... I'm not a car guy but a quick Google search shows that Infiniti g37 is fairly an enthusiast's car.
They seem comfortable based on op even suggesting his dad buy a porche 911. I mean no kid who lives thinking they are poor is going to do that. I just think op is an unreliable narrator and still a bit young/immature which is why the dad's doing this.
PS
The more I type the more I realise I do not want to argue with you hahaha.
Honestly I don't know why I am putting so much time on this and reddit in general. I think I'm getting addicted. Help. hahaha.
I wonder that too. What is rich? Most of us live better than kings just 150 years ago. Soft bed, running water, toilet, fridge, heat.
Is it just a state of mind? It’s all relative isn’t it?
I don’t have debt, make more than I spend, could stop working if I wanted so I’d say I’m rich but there are plenty with more and I like making more.
What is ‘rich’ as defined for this sub?
There is no definition. It’s just an endless anecdotal argument. To me, financial independence is the gateway to becoming rich.
Again, I like the loose definition of “I can buy anything I want, just not everything I want”.
As a child my definition of rich was…
Able to put things in the cart without caring so much about the price.
Purchasing furniture at full price that wasn’t at a thrift shop.
Going on vacations.
Having a car that wasn’t constantly broken down.
If you ask anyone who is considerably wealthier than the top 1%, the vast majority of them will insist they are not rich.
I’m no where near that 1% but I’m most certainly far, far beyond my childhood definition of rich.
So fuck it, I’ll say I’m rich.
Does it change anything? Not really.
If I say I’m not rich, I feel a sudden sense of sadness that I can’t quite place.
So yeah, I’m rich.
My friends all call me if they know I’ve bought something fairly expensive lately and they are thinking about it…because they know the amount of research I do before buying things.
I feel rich compared to other millennials I know. Wife and i have no student debt l, no credit card debt, a house with an insanely low interest rate, well funded retirement, and vacations abroad every year. I wouldn't call that rich but we don't stress about money. We are fortunate to think about it more in how we can grow what we have vs can we make it this month. Not having to worry about money is a game changer.
I will never call myself rich. Debt free. Decent net worth. Decent income. Work less than 40 hours per week. Travel a lot. Not having to stress about money is what makes you rich. I don’t care about cars. I don’t care about wardrobe. My wife doesn’t care about fake eyelashes or designer bags. We go out on the boat almost every night and watch the sunset. Maybe I am rich.
When I was younger I used to fantasize about being rich but dressing like I was poor and daily driving old cars or trucks. I wanted to be filthy rich but no one would oils think it
My uncle has 25M. He is a old stubborn stingy guy. Once his pump broke for his septic tank. What did he do? Crawled down in there to fix it. Was knee deep in sewage. All to save a couple 100 bucks. I think that’s going a bit too far given his net worth.
You sound like a teenager, not in a bad way. He’s teaching you some great life lessons here. The best line I’ve heard being around wealthy people is it’s easier to become wealthy than it is to stay wealthy. 11million is great! But with the wrong mindset that can turn into $10,000 very quickly.
If understand the terms young money and old money you’ll see why young money tends to run out of money.
You’re right about the 10mill going to 5 mill quickly. If the stock market crashes or something he will lose a lot of money. He currently has 4mil in unrealized gains and 10% of his portfolio is in nvda. He says he’s “overexposed”
A lot of rich people are not ostentatious, thats why their rich, they dont waste money like most people do.
Even leonardo dicaprio drives a prius and flies economy/business
My two richest friends (one is the child of billionaires, the other the child of multi multi millionaires) have each never flown first class. I am not rich but I feel like this is definitely a rich person thing.
I think some rich people need to find that balance of spending and not spending. What’s the point of having all that money if you die with it in her bank.
There certainly is some merit to having money but not spending it. The ability to use money as a tool and the ability to understand value.
What's the point of a young healthy child traveling in business class. It perhaps inculcates a habit of entitlement. When you are that rich it's hard maintain a perspective on the value of money.
It’s debatable as to whether my father was ever in the B-Club, but he spent a lot of time in the 9-figure and upper 8-figure clubs. As a child (and even through my twenties), when we weren’t flying private we were flying coach or relying on loyalty upgrades. Now that I’m spending my own money, I do partake in a few *inexpensive* luxuries balanced by the fact that my wife and I daily drive fifteen year old Toyotas with over 500,000 miles between the two of them. But they are as reliable as the day they left the factory. Still, I would never buy a first class airline ticket.
According to this, your father is very close to being in the top 1% of wealth, and if he is as frugal as you describe, he should get there soon. If he owns his house outright, he might already be there.
https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentiles/
>What is the top 1% household net worth?
>To be top 1% in 2023, a household needed a net worth of $13,666,778. $11,099,166 was the 1% threshold in 2020.
Just because you are wealthy doesn't mean that you have to live in any particular way. That he remains frugal is admirable in a certain respect, I'd say.
Your dad is rich, but not rich enough to live the crazy lifestyle that most people think of when they think about rich people. He’s like, shop at Whole Foods, fly economy maybe business if the price is right, designer clothes on sale.
Your dad is rich..you are not rich. He's right buying a junk car is a waste of money.
Get to work.. Hopefully he does a better job of instilling better monetary values in you.
He’s rich for a reason. Please learn from his example . Your own children will benefit one day.
Also…why would you not fly economy? Are you 6’4”? I make good money, and I’ll never understand the concept of spending $1000 per seat for a 6 hour domestic flight that you can do for $200. For a family of 4, first class is nearly my mortgage payment.
He's an accountant isn't he? He sounds like new money. If he is, listen to him, you'll never have a better mentor in life.
I come from this to an extreme degree, and the circles you likely run with are old money and those people aren't going to keep or increase additional generational wealth. They drain it.
My dad has 1 mill in savings, close to 2.5 mill in land, and 500k given to others on interest. But even then he bought a car worth 6k from his best friend just because he thought our family car doesn't give him that feeling anymore. And that 6k trash is so annoying to drive that it makes noise every time you drive it. And do you know why he bought it instead of what we decided upon because my sister's marriage got fixed and so he told us that's him saving money for his daughter's wedding. Which I didn't mind one bit as his daughter is my own sister. And he wanted to do a grand wedding for her because she is the first child and also because he...... doesn't think he'll live till my wedding. And he says that my daughter's wedding will be celebrated grandly and in our son's wedding we will just invite the guests to dinner. But I don't mind the things he says as I know he loves me dearly. One time when I was sleeping facing the other side of the door my father came to my room and sat next to my sister's bed and told her to look out for me when he's not there and find a perfect wife for me who'll take care of me, as I'm kind of silent guy because I get angry too often i choose to stay silent because of that and he knows that. But that day I cried damn hard with my face in the pillow.
1% net worth in Canada where I live is above $10 million CAD. $11 mil USD would be well above the 1% range by over $5 mil.
P.s. flying anything but economy or economy+ is a waste of money 95% of the time.
Honestly, 11 million isn’t that much. Sure you can lead a comfortable lifestyle, but it diminishes with each generation. 3 siblings turns into 3 million, 3 kids turns into 1.
Your father is smart by instilling frugality. You’re learning how to invest, how to work, and how to spend.
Can’t buy eternal life. I would take a more balanced approach; appreciate what you can enjoy while you can, never know when the end is (or some debilitating disease, etc. life’s random).
Your dad is a super smart financial saver, planner and investor.
I would highly suggest you learn from him. Being rich isn’t about what you can buy or luxurious living conditions. It’s about having the safety and security of knowing you have everything you need now - and for the future.
You won’t understand it now, but if you’re smart like him, yo learn it soon and practice it just til your do. You’re gonna be super grateful for the lessons in learn from him one day.
Rich get richer by not wasting money on non-value activities that don't further their ambition.
If you buy a fine wine for $45 and it tastes similar to a $10,000 bottle of wine, who wins by keeping more money? Pocket the difference stay frugal invest the rest and make more money. Wasting money is irresponsible, unless it's part of one's ambition but they're going to need a serious cashflow with some restrictions.
Sounds like a lot of money could be in a taxable account. If that is the case he has a lot less once it’s cashed out. He probably has a goal of an amount after taxes and investments that would grow and still pay enough to live on. I’d bet he would want 200k a year dividends and 1-5 years of yearly expenses. He’s smart and has made good choices but hasn’t gotten to a point of freedom. Once he’s there he will be living a middle to upper middle class life. He’s on a path to a comfortable and maybe early retirement. In his mind: If you can’t afford two, you can’t afford one. If you have a million dollars and you buy a 100k car, you don’t have a million anymore. But you’ve got something that drains your savings every month. Tabs, gas, maintenance, insurance. Every month one step closer to zero.
Sounds like my Dad. Aside from the massages thing, he is an absolute copy of my Dad by the sound of it. Does he talk about people who are living paycheck to paycheck suffering because they are trying to "keep up with the Joneses" instead of saving and investing with discipline?
For what it's worth, buying a Porsche 911 isn't necessarily a bad financial decision under these circumstances. Most generations of the 911 only depreciate up to a point and some even start gaining value as they get older. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy one if I had a net worth of $11mm and knew I was only going to drive it occasionally as a fun car and take care of it in a garage the rest of the time. A fine sports car is about the only true luxury item I would purchase if I had an enormous net worth.
Rich is relative. But I know many rich people and my line for rich is an 8 figure net worth, assuming it isnt all in land...I Understand that 1 or 2 million is rich to some folks. Rich is not needing to work at all. If you cant live off of 10 million, thats on you.
Does your dad plan to pay for your education? Do you have other siblings that he’ll need to pay for? I’m guessing he wants to leave an inheritance for you and your family if he can. I’m guessing he also wants to retire. Do the math to see how much it costs him to allow you and your family to live the way you do. Now multiply that by the number of years he’d like to live in retirement. Add in any additional costs that he might want to cover (if he plans on helping anyone pay for a future wedding for example). Adjust for inflation.
It might seem like a lot, but 1M is not what it used to be. Net worth is not the same as cash flow.
What about liabilities such as a mortgage or student loans? Is your house fully paid off? Will he pay for your college? Will he pay for your grad school? Do you have siblings? Will he help with a down payment for a house later? Pay for your wedding? Do you live in HCOL area? Is he the sole income earner? Any stocks he sell will also be taxed. He may have a lot in stocks but that’s not cash flow.
But what is he saving for like live a little. I grew up with distant family like this and I was like how y’all got multiple Ms but you don’t allow it to enable you to enjoy life?
Theres gotta be a limit although all in all your dads a super smart guy
Frugality is very common for people who are self made and have little to no inheritance.
He cannot spend it because he knows the pain he had to go through to earn that amount.
Many rich people don't act rich, and that's exactly how they got rich and stay rich. Sounds like that's the case with your dad. You, on the other hand, I worry that you'd blow through millions in no time, acting rich until you weren't any more.
"rich" is spending thousands of dollars on stuff you don't need!
"Wealth" is having a smart dad that knows how to hold on to assets, to pass the net wealth on to future generations.
Nobody is better at insisting they're middle class than rich people. My parents earn a middle six-figure income between the two of them, and yet they vehemently deny that they're rich because "lOoK at PeOPle iN cHiHago or NyC".
It sounds like your dad is a responsible, frugal financial mind. That is awesome, and he genuinely deserves credit for being smart about having such levels of money. That said, the vast majority of humanity could never even fathom that scale of money.
Ask the question of how to define "rich" - before and after hanging out with people who have to work multiple jobs to feed their families.
Wow. Come to West Virginia. Actually don't, but my parents combined for about $120,000 a year in 2010 when I was in high school, and I got called "rich". They drove a jetta and a GMC envoy, but the envoy had a DVD player in it, so I was "rich". Literally lived in a trailer til I was like 7. That's how poor WV is.
And that’s why he has the amount of money he has. He is smart to use his money the way he has. My Daddy was the same. Only reason we found out how much he had was he passed away. He was frugal to the end.
Learn from him how to save and invest. I got several times as wealthy from startups and angel investments. I did have a talk with my wife about upgrading our lives. We throw parties for the neighborhood, we started flying business on long flights, we take the kids on vacation and travel all over seeing friends.
I think as you make more money there really isn’t much more to buy and when you realize this you don’t need to buy things that are labeled more expensive/useless items. I think your dad understands that and it’s probably why he’s a multi millionaire with different avenues of income. He’s frugal and sometimes that’s just a common habit rich people have.
A million dollars of disposable income at any given moment while having an income is rich to me. Your house and car don't mean anything because half the us is upside down on mortgages and car notes. One guy has a million dollar house but is behind on payments with 50k in the bank isn't rich. A guy with a 500k house paid off and 1-5 million in the bank is most definitely rich. This is assuming he still has a good income because you can drain a million dollars in no time.
You guys are likely well off because of the qualities you've described in your dad, not despite it.
Maybe just have some respect for the person who's sense and frugality provides you such a good life 🤷
The more money you have, the more money you can make. Spending money needlessly also decreases your future earnings. 11 million is rich but it's not exactly fuck you money and honestly, he is probably thinking of your future as well.
LOL - your dad thinks a whole lot like me, though I don't have nearly his net worth, I'm confident I'll get there. You should embrace his principles and apply them to yourself because he is spot on with his thinking. I call it responsible thinking.
Your Dad is a very sensible and humble man. Kudos to him 👌
What may seem “frugal” to others, your Dad is being judicious in his spending habits because wealthy people tend not to spend more than 10% of their yearly income [which sounds like what your Dad is doing based on your post; Warren Buffet practices this financial literacy for he still lives in the same house he owned before becoming one of the richest people in the world 🗺️ (and this is not a “PR move” on Mr. Buffet’s part to come across as likeable for many of the world’s wealthiest people practice this)].
Your Dad is wealthy because he practices financial literacy properly and seems to me to not be an “impulse spender” (which I used to be; I come from a long line of impulse spenders 😝 - my wife is a HUGE impulse spender 🤑 but thankfully 😅 I’ve been able to curb her spending habits by helping her learn and practice financial literacy, which your Dad seems to practice very well).
Your dad got rich enough to have that money and you haven't done that. Maybe he knows something. You should listen to him. You get rich by investing and saving and building your money, not spending all that you can.
He probably has that because he is smart/frugal. To Bill Gates no you're not rich. To 95% of the rest of us, yes you are rich. It's all a matter of perspective.
If you are trying to get massages and thinking about getting a Porsche 911, you are probably rich compared to most. This isn't something the middle/lower class normally does. Those are things we would daydream about doing if we were rich. And most would agree with your dad that a Porsche 911 is a bad investment. That'd be a very wasteful use of 100-150K or however much long term.
Miser mentality. He’ll come to the end of his life with more money than he can ever spend. Pray that he leaves it to his family and not a dog rescue, because you need to learn the value of a dollar.
You are rich, your father is content living modestly and that's absolutely the way to stay rich.
I've never followed this advice in my life but I know it's true! Lol
I think your father is setting a great example for you as you make your way through life and finances.
We have always tried with our kids to avoid talking about whether or not we can afford something. That thinking leads people to start buying things the moment they can “afford” to buy them rather than saving, investing, etc. We have always tried to support the idea that every optional purchase is a choice and we either choose to spend our money on that or we decide that we would rather spend our money on something else, or more importantly save the money to invest it for our future so we don’t have to worry about paying the bills after we retire.
Your father’s choices about his money are his. Because it’s his money. If he thinks something isn’t worth it, then he won’t buy it. Good discussions with him about money and what he is saving it for is healthy, but pushing him to believe beleive is wrong with his decisions is not.
Your dad is just frugal and smart with money. With money, you shouldn't think about what you just have. You need to think about the opportunity cost of what it's potential could be if you invested it instead of spending it.
Say if you had a 100 dollars in back in 2014 and you bought Nvidia stock at .40 cent instead of whatever you usually buy. That 100 dollars is now worth 31k 10 years later.
Whatever is enough to provide for someone without requiring work to make ends meet.
For some people, that's 250k-- others, 500k -- others, 1-2mn, others - 25mn+
It's all relative. Your old man is smart. You should be thankful. Maybe he'll pass it on to you someday.
Also, stop worrying about other people's money. It's tacky.
I had no idea what my father had until he passed, last December, and I started collecting over $800k in cash accounts, life insurance, and investments.
Oddly, he told my wife, when we visited some seven months prior, that he was going to leave everything to his (current, second) wife.
Guy probably had a goal for a while of 8 figures in his brokerage account. He doesn’t want to give that up.
And at that level, a $150k-$200k car is 1.5%-2% of your portfolio, not a rounding error.
Or maybe the guy just doesn’t like Porsche.
Make your own money and buy the car you want. What your parents have isn't your business. Amazing you're worried about being middle class or rich as if this is your money. Go make your own money and use dads tactics on how to accumulate wealth.
I saved every cent in my younger years. Bought an old house at 20 years old. Got married at 21. I only made $150 a week, she made $175. We fixed up the old house one step at a time. We had 3 children by age 30. Today, We are retired. We don't owe a cent to anyone. We enjoy everyday we have. We have 8 grand kids and 200K in savings. We are very rich people.
Rich people stay rich because they continue to do the things that made them rich.
Having a net worth of $11 million and still being frugal on purchases of $100 is the biggest, if not entire, reason that he’s worth that much money in the first place.
It's good to be mindful of spending, but your dad is literally lying by saying you're middle class.
But living middle class is fine, you are privileged to be in a position where you'll likely never in your life be without a home, medical care when you need and have the opportunity to study and try things with a good safety net to fall on.
your dad is very wise, take careful note of everything he is doing. he understands value! my father is the same way, i am blessed to have such an amazing role model.
one of the best money tips i ever heard was from a friend who said, "there is always something to spend your money on". it is profound. every purchase you are making an important decision to let go of some of your precious resource, is it worth it? will you regret the purchase later?
one transformative practice i have learned from was to write down my wish-list of purchases. i would plan to get them only when i had the money saved up to buy them. then i would wait and wait, even wait until next year. often waiting beyond when i had the money. almost every single time i would lose interest in owning the items on the wish list. but i would still have the money.
money is the most valuable resource, it is your life energy. even $1 is important. having 10 million of them doesnt reduce the importance, responsibility, or scarcity of ownership.
my grandfather used to pickup coins off the ground when we would go into the grocery store. he shopped with coupons and saved everything he could, and always had money.
hug your dad and ask him for all his best tips on money management, you are so lucky to have that opportunity.
edit: i have to add, the porsche isn't worth it! it's a trap. you'll understand one day.
Your dad is definitely upper class (at least in the society i live in) but it sounds like he has wealth as opposed to being rich (which means he's quiet, humble and sensible about his money). It's a good way to be, you should learn all you can from him on that.
Your dad is very smart and you could learn a ton from him I'm sure! You can tell him that the 911 won't lose any value, even he pays over for the car. But the reason many become "rich" is because they consistently plan for their money instead of winging it. Learning the difference between high income and wealth is important. No idea what your fathers income is, but he has been diligent in making sure he builds wealth for the family, which is awesome. Now imagine a certain group of idealists thinks your dad is a theif and want to take it all away....
I live in what I consider a very rich suburb of a rich city. People here have multi million dollar homes (but don’t look particularly fancy) and many vacation homes on Martha’s Vineyard or the Cape. They all consider themselves middle class. For me with no family support of any kind and kids and wife I also lean towards being frugal. We are one 2008 from disaster.
My numbers are very close to your fathers. We don’t live rich in my opinion. We spend about 200k per year. We drive older cars.
Enjoy his legacy and you have your chance to build your own.
Your father is smart, might be annoying at times dealing with him and how he views spending too much money but he is smart with money. Annoyed me the same way when I was a kid thinking we were middle class because my parents were frugal until I was in college and found out how much they actually had.
I have an uncle like this. He was frugal to the point that it annoyed everyone. Had a $7 million home with no furniture for like 8 years. He’s worth about $25m or more now though.
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The security to know you'll never run out of money, which gives you peace of mind in case the shit hits the fan with a medical or family. Covid is a good example. The frugal ones had money saved, the non frugal ones had no savings cuz they spent it all on ubereats, eating out and ordering on Amazon
If you have 10M, you can buy a couch without going poor. OP uncle is cheap, not frugal.
However you still end up six feet under in the end with someone else spending your money. There’s a balance to life. To each his own.
Yes. Had a BIL who worked hard as a cardiologist and died young due to diabetes. Very frugal. Died with probably $5,000,000. The wife he was separated from and her drug addicted kids got all that money.
Unexpected bill? Not a drama Family member needs help? Here Had enough of work and need a long break? No problem Want to treat yourself that will actually mean something? Fine Want to retire and never worry about money? Sorted. That's why.
To be fair though if you had £25 million, even if you ignored any and all interest, you could live on £500,000 a year (£41,666 a month) for FIFTY years without having to work before it ran out. You could literally wipe your ass with money and still have money, assuming you weren't an idiot. I get the general frugality - like OP's dad is probably just trying to teach him economy and sensibility with money. But living like a drifter when you can afford to live comfortably is plain dumb and kinda selfish. Just give the money away, you know?
There's a line between being smart and being miserly. People with money are usually the last ones to be able to see the difference. In OP's case, Dad sounds a bit miserly, but OP is a perfect example of someone who would end up bankrupt because of frivolous spending.
oh without a doubt. i have older relatives who will refuse to spend money on better insurance so medications would be cheaper. instead they will just “only use it when needed”. COPD doesn’t work like that, yet millions of dollars in the bank + in the market
He’s living like a rich person… because he’s rich. Good habits and frugality are probably how he got “rich.”
My family always beat it into my head growing up "You don't get to have money by spending your money" Always annoyed me, aside from back to school clothes or birthday shopping, mostly wore clothes from Walmart growing up because "they won't fit you in a month or two anyway!" Then for my 16th birthday got a solid gold choker with diamonds and opals, with matching ring and earrings! That really taught me the difference between investing in a "forever" item vs something that won't last, and why it's worth buying the one thing you really want but it's not worth buying the best/ most expensive of everything, every single time.
That is not a smart investment by him, unless it was coastal property with viable insurance.
Maybe but people buy things they enjoy sometimes, thats the best investment
It’s not smart if you are worried about nickels and dimes at every turn. You are not taking advantage of the freedom you get from having money. Spend some sometimes, splurge, have fun but be smart, live a little.
In many ways, I agree with this comment. I have a slightly smaller NW than OP’s dad. I see some of these behaviors in myself and in the way my kids look at me. The thing is, though, that I’m completely happy. I struggle to spend more than $7k/ month. I just don’t spend for spending’s sake. I research what I buy on Amazon - because I can and it’s easy. I also use coupons when I have them. I know that I could spend more and possibly enjoy life more - possibly. But, I enjoy life as it is. I have everything I need and live the life I want. I don’t worry about, nor do I stress about money in any real terms. But, if you asked my kids, they’d probably say that I talk about money all the time. I do. It’s a bit of an interest of mine. Could I buy a Porsche 911? Sure. Do I want to? Some days, yes. But, I also wanted a jetted tub 20+ years ago when I built my house. We used it regularly for about 3 months. Now it just sits there. There is nothing that a new 911 would get me that my 11 year old MB SL550 won’t. I think it’s all a matter of perspective.
This is how Warren Buffet is with money. He even used coupons at McDonalds when he took Bill Gates with him to buy his favorite breakfast items from the menu. It’s this kind of mentality that got him to where he’s at now. Wealth is a mindset. There was a Benz SL55 AMG that I wanted back in high school that went for $130K brand new. I found one recently used for only $11K! 😁 This is why most cars are a bad way to spend money. I’d rather get it for $11K and let the person who bought it new pay for the $120K depreciation! 😆 It would still cost a bit to maintain but it’s far better to pay $11K + maintenance than to waste $130K on something brand new that will only tank in value like a stock market crash.
I relate to this so much.
And sweating over the cheaper stuff should not be worth his time, if he's spending 20 mins to try and save $5 off of that $100 amazon purchase for example he's giving himself $15/hr
Exactly, I don't have his net worth, but I have a comfortable net worth and spend money to keep myself comfortable. I don't drive an expensive car, I have a 5 year old Honda Hybrid and will probably replace it soon with another Honda or Toyota (I thought I'd be in an EV now, but don't feel that the charging network is ready for long-distance drives yet). But when it comes to making a few hundred dollar purchase, I just make it, and usually stick to known high-quality brands even though they are more expensive. I'll pay several times more for a North Face or Patagonia jacket, knowing that it'll give me years more service than a no-name jacket that I'll be throwing away in the year when the seams start to split. Likewise, when I fly, I usually fly first or business class, the convenience and comfort makes it worth the money to me. Though admittedly, if I buy flights for my siblings to go on a trip, I generally put them in Economy and give them the option of paying the difference to upgrade to a higher class (premium economy or business/first).
This is how Warren Buffet is with money. He even used coupons at McDonalds when he took Bill Gates with him to buy his favorite breakfast items from the menu. It’s this kind of mentality that got him to where he’s at now. Wealth is a mindset.
Your dad is who you should be listening to. He’s not “rich”, but he is very wealthy and being unbelievably responsible in a sea of nouveau riche spenders that will end up broke. You will never have to worry about him or take care of him. He is planning for ups and downs but will be safe. Forever. Even when his elder care is $15k a month. Listen and learn from whatever he tells you. This is refreshing, honestly Edit: fine, I should have said “fuck you” money instead of “rich” for all you pedantic people arguing over the minutiae of rich vs wealthy. I apologize. My point and reasoning stands
4% withdrawal rate of $10m is $400k…. A $400k income at his age probably without a mortgage is fucking rich. Even after tax, that’s $20k+ monthly disposable income. At that point, if he wants a 921, get it and enjoy it. He can’t take his money to the grave. Also, he’s completely out of touch if he vaguely believes he’s middle class…
Because he still has middle class values and behaviors, he still sees himself as middle class. I find myself in that same boat. You’re correct, though. He is far from middle class.
Yea not having to worry about expenses is not middle class that is rich.
I read a study years back, and no longer have the citation, but it basically stated that most people perceive themselves to be in the income bracket or class that they grew up in. I.e. if he grew up middle class, he probably still sees himself that way
His returns have been more like 18-20% yearly. He has been beating the market every year.
How is he getting 18% to 20%? What is his portfolio invested in?
Either he takes risks and is incredibly lucky or he spends his life researching and learning and is still lucky.
Haha yea I read one of op's responses. His dad is heavy in NVDA. Probably time to cash out imo. Or cash out a significant portion and put into VTI or VOO. Visit r/bogleheads haha
I have a 911 but I want a 921 now!
What do you consider rich? Like, give an actual number if you think 11 million isn’t rich? And what is that arbitrary number based on??
I think $20 million is rich. It puts you in the top 1% in most age brackets.
In every age bracket, easily.
He’s 100% rich. He doesn’t need to work and doesn’t need anyone’s approval to choose his own path and own freedom. Meanwhile, the rest of us toil in mines, are told to vote for a senile by the DNC and by fast food by marketing against our will
Being wealthy literally means being rich...
> he’s not rich just very wealthy wut
He's absolutely rich and is crippling himself with needless anxiety. He has enough in capital to lock up his wealth in bonds and guarantee 500k per year in income. He doesn't need to worry about his car insurance rates unless he enjoys it, which maybe he does.
I think you mixed up the terms according to their popular usage. He’s not necessarily wealthy (to me he is,) but he’s absolutely rich. Rich, abundance, lots. Americans are a much higher notch than the world average in terms of material ownership, and he’s about the .1 percent of Americans. He’s passed middle class, upper-middle, however you wanna call it; I don’t think bill gates spending like he’s living paycheck to paycheck makes him not rich.
A 2024 survey from Schwab shows Americans believe a net worth of 2.2M is rich. Financial advisors consider someone with a 5-10M NW ‘very high net worth individual’ Searched ‘what net worth is considered rich’ in google
3.2 million is the 95th percentile. Your dad is delusionally rich.
There's a big difference between wealthy and rich. The lifestyle gap between 15 million and 100 million is fucking immense. My grandfather falls somewhere in the lower middle of that range but he has friends with private jets and mansions in palm springs. Like houses worth his net worth alone. That shit is kind boggling.
He is absolutely rich. The gap between 150 million and 1 billion is massive, but no one would say 100 million isn't rich because of it
Most people don’t care about that gap, what are we gonna do? Fly helicopters everywhere? If we grew up poor to middle class I can’t imagine most people will throw away all the values that got them there in the first place.
That is incorrect. It's all regional.
Okay, Poindexter. 👏👍🙏
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just listen to your dad,,, learn from him
Respect
also, he's more middle class than rich. but if he keeps it up, he will do wel... most millionaires are like this.down low. Madison Avenue is designed to take your money. he knows that
He makes 400k a year (conservative estimate) simply sitting on his ass. That is not middle class income and 10m NW is not middle class wealth. You are delusional.
Lol you’re delusional
Yup. Dad is trying to teach OP skills they need to be rich. Living below your means, delayed gratification, not being wasteful when buying something for convenience, tracking and budgeting for the extra costs that come with purchases like new cars, etc.
I disagree. the father has more than enough money to spend $100 here, $100 there without worrying. His investments are up and down hundreds of thousands a day (and mostly up these days). He's not being frugal, he's being a miser. Engaging in reasonable spending with respect to your net worth and not feel like every purchase is pulling teeth when he can easily afford it, is a much better way to live. better to enjoy life if you can.
That is a fair perspective. However usually people who build wealth slowly over time happen to do so due to habits spanning decades. Its difficult to overcome them and easy to justify it. I am not saying it might be op's dad's intentions but he is inculcating values and habits that will help OP eventually manage millions rather then become broke. It is much more difficult to maintain wealth than to create it. Oh happy cake day btw!
thank you! 🍰 I think the issue is striking a balance, which is not always easy to do. I honestly don't have all the answers for myself either. I think there's a kind of aspirational mindset to not spend too much but also not spend too little either. you're right though, there could be an educational aspect to it, in which he's intentionally holding back to pass on "frugal genes." I've talked about this with rich friends who intentionally do that as well. live well, but not too well! however, if that's the case, it really sounds like he's gone too far. he could get hit by a meteor tomorrow and miss out on a lot of fun things and shared memories that he could've easily afforded.
Here's a few excerpts from op's post that make me feel that maybe he isn't going too far... They go get massages... Not that frugal of a hobby... Doing research for a $100 item is not that insane especially since we don't know much detail about what things op is talking about... They have a Tesla model y... I'm not a car guy but a quick Google search shows that Infiniti g37 is fairly an enthusiast's car. They seem comfortable based on op even suggesting his dad buy a porche 911. I mean no kid who lives thinking they are poor is going to do that. I just think op is an unreliable narrator and still a bit young/immature which is why the dad's doing this. PS The more I type the more I realise I do not want to argue with you hahaha. Honestly I don't know why I am putting so much time on this and reddit in general. I think I'm getting addicted. Help. hahaha.
I agree. It becomes a sickness. The fear of spending money no matter how rational. It’s a sickness.
I wonder that too. What is rich? Most of us live better than kings just 150 years ago. Soft bed, running water, toilet, fridge, heat. Is it just a state of mind? It’s all relative isn’t it? I don’t have debt, make more than I spend, could stop working if I wanted so I’d say I’m rich but there are plenty with more and I like making more. What is ‘rich’ as defined for this sub?
There is no definition. It’s just an endless anecdotal argument. To me, financial independence is the gateway to becoming rich. Again, I like the loose definition of “I can buy anything I want, just not everything I want”.
As a child my definition of rich was… Able to put things in the cart without caring so much about the price. Purchasing furniture at full price that wasn’t at a thrift shop. Going on vacations. Having a car that wasn’t constantly broken down. If you ask anyone who is considerably wealthier than the top 1%, the vast majority of them will insist they are not rich. I’m no where near that 1% but I’m most certainly far, far beyond my childhood definition of rich. So fuck it, I’ll say I’m rich. Does it change anything? Not really. If I say I’m not rich, I feel a sudden sense of sadness that I can’t quite place. So yeah, I’m rich.
So true
I'm 62 and have never missed a meal. Of course, my waistline is proof of this.
wealth comes in many forms. a man who has comfort, health, love, and sanctuary- is a man who has everything.
If you’re spending $100 on something, it is worth doing some research to make sure you’re not buying a piece of junk. Doesn’t matter how rich you are
My friends all call me if they know I’ve bought something fairly expensive lately and they are thinking about it…because they know the amount of research I do before buying things.
I feel rich compared to other millennials I know. Wife and i have no student debt l, no credit card debt, a house with an insanely low interest rate, well funded retirement, and vacations abroad every year. I wouldn't call that rich but we don't stress about money. We are fortunate to think about it more in how we can grow what we have vs can we make it this month. Not having to worry about money is a game changer.
I will never call myself rich. Debt free. Decent net worth. Decent income. Work less than 40 hours per week. Travel a lot. Not having to stress about money is what makes you rich. I don’t care about cars. I don’t care about wardrobe. My wife doesn’t care about fake eyelashes or designer bags. We go out on the boat almost every night and watch the sunset. Maybe I am rich.
Isn't it shocking how some people work to look rich?
Depends. Do you captain the boat yourself, or do you have a crew?
As soon as you described your wife, I knew you were rich. Congrats!
When I was younger I used to fantasize about being rich but dressing like I was poor and daily driving old cars or trucks. I wanted to be filthy rich but no one would oils think it
My uncle has 25M. He is a old stubborn stingy guy. Once his pump broke for his septic tank. What did he do? Crawled down in there to fix it. Was knee deep in sewage. All to save a couple 100 bucks. I think that’s going a bit too far given his net worth.
Some people take satisfaction in fixing something.
Upvoted you. Don't understand the fucking down vote. Geez
You sound like a teenager, not in a bad way. He’s teaching you some great life lessons here. The best line I’ve heard being around wealthy people is it’s easier to become wealthy than it is to stay wealthy. 11million is great! But with the wrong mindset that can turn into $10,000 very quickly. If understand the terms young money and old money you’ll see why young money tends to run out of money.
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You’re right about the 10mill going to 5 mill quickly. If the stock market crashes or something he will lose a lot of money. He currently has 4mil in unrealized gains and 10% of his portfolio is in nvda. He says he’s “overexposed”
A lot of rich people are not ostentatious, thats why their rich, they dont waste money like most people do. Even leonardo dicaprio drives a prius and flies economy/business
You’re not wrong with the first sentence. But you are delusional if you think Leo DiCaprio is not ostentatious lol
My two richest friends (one is the child of billionaires, the other the child of multi multi millionaires) have each never flown first class. I am not rich but I feel like this is definitely a rich person thing.
I think some rich people need to find that balance of spending and not spending. What’s the point of having all that money if you die with it in her bank.
Exactly. It’s worthless if you don’t use it. You can be smart and enjoy the freedom and benefits of wealth at the same time
There certainly is some merit to having money but not spending it. The ability to use money as a tool and the ability to understand value. What's the point of a young healthy child traveling in business class. It perhaps inculcates a habit of entitlement. When you are that rich it's hard maintain a perspective on the value of money.
It’s debatable as to whether my father was ever in the B-Club, but he spent a lot of time in the 9-figure and upper 8-figure clubs. As a child (and even through my twenties), when we weren’t flying private we were flying coach or relying on loyalty upgrades. Now that I’m spending my own money, I do partake in a few *inexpensive* luxuries balanced by the fact that my wife and I daily drive fifteen year old Toyotas with over 500,000 miles between the two of them. But they are as reliable as the day they left the factory. Still, I would never buy a first class airline ticket.
yeah you guys are rich
He's smart. I'm at $5mil without house and opposite end of spending of your Dad. I need to be your Dad.
Live a little and save a lot :)
Your dad's attitude to spending is why he has 11 mil in assets. He's wealthy on paper, but lives like he is poor. It's the best approach.
According to this, your father is very close to being in the top 1% of wealth, and if he is as frugal as you describe, he should get there soon. If he owns his house outright, he might already be there. https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentiles/ >What is the top 1% household net worth? >To be top 1% in 2023, a household needed a net worth of $13,666,778. $11,099,166 was the 1% threshold in 2020. Just because you are wealthy doesn't mean that you have to live in any particular way. That he remains frugal is admirable in a certain respect, I'd say.
Read the book "Millionaire Next Door!"
Having a car, a smart phone, taking a shower every day, and eating at restaurants is rich.
If his net worth is $11 million, he is rich. Frugality is how he hopes to stay that way.
Your dad is rich, but not rich enough to live the crazy lifestyle that most people think of when they think about rich people. He’s like, shop at Whole Foods, fly economy maybe business if the price is right, designer clothes on sale.
Your dad is rich but lives middle class.
Ummm you're not middle class.
Your dad is rich..you are not rich. He's right buying a junk car is a waste of money. Get to work.. Hopefully he does a better job of instilling better monetary values in you.
He’s rich for a reason. Please learn from his example . Your own children will benefit one day. Also…why would you not fly economy? Are you 6’4”? I make good money, and I’ll never understand the concept of spending $1000 per seat for a 6 hour domestic flight that you can do for $200. For a family of 4, first class is nearly my mortgage payment.
He's an accountant isn't he? He sounds like new money. If he is, listen to him, you'll never have a better mentor in life. I come from this to an extreme degree, and the circles you likely run with are old money and those people aren't going to keep or increase additional generational wealth. They drain it.
Yes he has a financial advisor who has been with our family for years. He turned 3 million into 10 million by investing in stocks.
He's smart. I'm at $5mil without house and opposite end of spending of your Dad. I need to be your Dad.
My dad has 1 mill in savings, close to 2.5 mill in land, and 500k given to others on interest. But even then he bought a car worth 6k from his best friend just because he thought our family car doesn't give him that feeling anymore. And that 6k trash is so annoying to drive that it makes noise every time you drive it. And do you know why he bought it instead of what we decided upon because my sister's marriage got fixed and so he told us that's him saving money for his daughter's wedding. Which I didn't mind one bit as his daughter is my own sister. And he wanted to do a grand wedding for her because she is the first child and also because he...... doesn't think he'll live till my wedding. And he says that my daughter's wedding will be celebrated grandly and in our son's wedding we will just invite the guests to dinner. But I don't mind the things he says as I know he loves me dearly. One time when I was sleeping facing the other side of the door my father came to my room and sat next to my sister's bed and told her to look out for me when he's not there and find a perfect wife for me who'll take care of me, as I'm kind of silent guy because I get angry too often i choose to stay silent because of that and he knows that. But that day I cried damn hard with my face in the pillow.
1% net worth in Canada where I live is above $10 million CAD. $11 mil USD would be well above the 1% range by over $5 mil. P.s. flying anything but economy or economy+ is a waste of money 95% of the time.
Honestly, 11 million isn’t that much. Sure you can lead a comfortable lifestyle, but it diminishes with each generation. 3 siblings turns into 3 million, 3 kids turns into 1. Your father is smart by instilling frugality. You’re learning how to invest, how to work, and how to spend.
If you wonder how you get 11 million dollars it's acting exactly like your dad over a lifetime.
https://cdn.dqydj.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/investor-regulatory-standards-sec.png https://i.imgur.com/sNX7igH.png https://mymoneywizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/definitions-of-the-utlra-rich.png
A woman that loves you
$5m NW is my personal definition
Learn what can from this man jr!
Your dad knows what he’s doing. Listen to him and try to emulate him.
I just finished listening to the Millionaire Next Door by T. Stanley. You should listen to it. It will be like listening to your dad's biography.
Can’t buy eternal life. I would take a more balanced approach; appreciate what you can enjoy while you can, never know when the end is (or some debilitating disease, etc. life’s random).
Your dad is a super smart financial saver, planner and investor. I would highly suggest you learn from him. Being rich isn’t about what you can buy or luxurious living conditions. It’s about having the safety and security of knowing you have everything you need now - and for the future. You won’t understand it now, but if you’re smart like him, yo learn it soon and practice it just til your do. You’re gonna be super grateful for the lessons in learn from him one day.
Rich get richer by not wasting money on non-value activities that don't further their ambition. If you buy a fine wine for $45 and it tastes similar to a $10,000 bottle of wine, who wins by keeping more money? Pocket the difference stay frugal invest the rest and make more money. Wasting money is irresponsible, unless it's part of one's ambition but they're going to need a serious cashflow with some restrictions.
Sounds like a lot of money could be in a taxable account. If that is the case he has a lot less once it’s cashed out. He probably has a goal of an amount after taxes and investments that would grow and still pay enough to live on. I’d bet he would want 200k a year dividends and 1-5 years of yearly expenses. He’s smart and has made good choices but hasn’t gotten to a point of freedom. Once he’s there he will be living a middle to upper middle class life. He’s on a path to a comfortable and maybe early retirement. In his mind: If you can’t afford two, you can’t afford one. If you have a million dollars and you buy a 100k car, you don’t have a million anymore. But you’ve got something that drains your savings every month. Tabs, gas, maintenance, insurance. Every month one step closer to zero.
Sounds like my Dad. Aside from the massages thing, he is an absolute copy of my Dad by the sound of it. Does he talk about people who are living paycheck to paycheck suffering because they are trying to "keep up with the Joneses" instead of saving and investing with discipline?
11 mill goes by a lot quicker and its not liquid
Why he's rich. Cheap n frugal usually have the most
For what it's worth, buying a Porsche 911 isn't necessarily a bad financial decision under these circumstances. Most generations of the 911 only depreciate up to a point and some even start gaining value as they get older. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy one if I had a net worth of $11mm and knew I was only going to drive it occasionally as a fun car and take care of it in a garage the rest of the time. A fine sports car is about the only true luxury item I would purchase if I had an enormous net worth.
My grandmother was like this very wealthy. I took her to go grocery shopping and she wouldn’t pay $4 for a gallon of milk.
Rich is relative. But I know many rich people and my line for rich is an 8 figure net worth, assuming it isnt all in land...I Understand that 1 or 2 million is rich to some folks. Rich is not needing to work at all. If you cant live off of 10 million, thats on you.
Does your dad plan to pay for your education? Do you have other siblings that he’ll need to pay for? I’m guessing he wants to leave an inheritance for you and your family if he can. I’m guessing he also wants to retire. Do the math to see how much it costs him to allow you and your family to live the way you do. Now multiply that by the number of years he’d like to live in retirement. Add in any additional costs that he might want to cover (if he plans on helping anyone pay for a future wedding for example). Adjust for inflation. It might seem like a lot, but 1M is not what it used to be. Net worth is not the same as cash flow.
Yes, I would consider it as being rich. His frugalness allows him to remain rich. Of course if you are not going to spend it, does it really matter?
He stays rich by being frugal.
not rich till you sell.
When you have FU money that's when you know you are rich
You’re complaining that your dad is shepherding your inheritance? You’re gonna be the generation that burns it for sure.
Your father is living in absolute poverty
What about liabilities such as a mortgage or student loans? Is your house fully paid off? Will he pay for your college? Will he pay for your grad school? Do you have siblings? Will he help with a down payment for a house later? Pay for your wedding? Do you live in HCOL area? Is he the sole income earner? Any stocks he sell will also be taxed. He may have a lot in stocks but that’s not cash flow.
To me "rich" is living an upper middle class lifestyle from largely passive income. And up.
But what is he saving for like live a little. I grew up with distant family like this and I was like how y’all got multiple Ms but you don’t allow it to enable you to enjoy life? Theres gotta be a limit although all in all your dads a super smart guy
If you waste money, 11 mil will turn into 100k in a blink of an eye
Frugality is very common for people who are self made and have little to no inheritance. He cannot spend it because he knows the pain he had to go through to earn that amount.
Many rich people don't act rich, and that's exactly how they got rich and stay rich. Sounds like that's the case with your dad. You, on the other hand, I worry that you'd blow through millions in no time, acting rich until you weren't any more.
Well thats why he is rich. Became rich by saving and not by spending to look rich.
Agree with him on the car.
He's wealthy but lives frugally. Net worth matters more than spending habits.
Being able to lose it all relatively quickly. Being wealthy means you wouldn't notice the former scenario.
He's rich. He got that way by acting like he wasn't. It's no surprise he still thinks he isn't.
Should listen to the man. There’s a reason he is worth so much
"rich" is spending thousands of dollars on stuff you don't need! "Wealth" is having a smart dad that knows how to hold on to assets, to pass the net wealth on to future generations.
Your dad is money rich and life poor.
Nobody is better at insisting they're middle class than rich people. My parents earn a middle six-figure income between the two of them, and yet they vehemently deny that they're rich because "lOoK at PeOPle iN cHiHago or NyC". It sounds like your dad is a responsible, frugal financial mind. That is awesome, and he genuinely deserves credit for being smart about having such levels of money. That said, the vast majority of humanity could never even fathom that scale of money. Ask the question of how to define "rich" - before and after hanging out with people who have to work multiple jobs to feed their families.
Wow. Come to West Virginia. Actually don't, but my parents combined for about $120,000 a year in 2010 when I was in high school, and I got called "rich". They drove a jetta and a GMC envoy, but the envoy had a DVD player in it, so I was "rich". Literally lived in a trailer til I was like 7. That's how poor WV is.
And that’s why he has the amount of money he has. He is smart to use his money the way he has. My Daddy was the same. Only reason we found out how much he had was he passed away. He was frugal to the end.
Learn from him how to save and invest. I got several times as wealthy from startups and angel investments. I did have a talk with my wife about upgrading our lives. We throw parties for the neighborhood, we started flying business on long flights, we take the kids on vacation and travel all over seeing friends.
I think as you make more money there really isn’t much more to buy and when you realize this you don’t need to buy things that are labeled more expensive/useless items. I think your dad understands that and it’s probably why he’s a multi millionaire with different avenues of income. He’s frugal and sometimes that’s just a common habit rich people have.
A million dollars of disposable income at any given moment while having an income is rich to me. Your house and car don't mean anything because half the us is upside down on mortgages and car notes. One guy has a million dollar house but is behind on payments with 50k in the bank isn't rich. A guy with a 500k house paid off and 1-5 million in the bank is most definitely rich. This is assuming he still has a good income because you can drain a million dollars in no time.
You guys are likely well off because of the qualities you've described in your dad, not despite it. Maybe just have some respect for the person who's sense and frugality provides you such a good life 🤷
The more money you have, the more money you can make. Spending money needlessly also decreases your future earnings. 11 million is rich but it's not exactly fuck you money and honestly, he is probably thinking of your future as well.
That’s why he has the money. He keeps an eye on his spending. Smart man. Learn from him
I'm guessing everyone here has never worried about food before. I must leave now.
There's a reason why people have money. I fully identify with your dad and his frugality. I wonder how many of us who do have money are frugal.
LOL - your dad thinks a whole lot like me, though I don't have nearly his net worth, I'm confident I'll get there. You should embrace his principles and apply them to yourself because he is spot on with his thinking. I call it responsible thinking.
Your father's a great financial role model..
Social class and income aren’t the same thing. Your dad sounds frugal and that’s why he has money. Social class is about values more than income.
Your Dad is a very sensible and humble man. Kudos to him 👌 What may seem “frugal” to others, your Dad is being judicious in his spending habits because wealthy people tend not to spend more than 10% of their yearly income [which sounds like what your Dad is doing based on your post; Warren Buffet practices this financial literacy for he still lives in the same house he owned before becoming one of the richest people in the world 🗺️ (and this is not a “PR move” on Mr. Buffet’s part to come across as likeable for many of the world’s wealthiest people practice this)]. Your Dad is wealthy because he practices financial literacy properly and seems to me to not be an “impulse spender” (which I used to be; I come from a long line of impulse spenders 😝 - my wife is a HUGE impulse spender 🤑 but thankfully 😅 I’ve been able to curb her spending habits by helping her learn and practice financial literacy, which your Dad seems to practice very well).
Your dad got rich enough to have that money and you haven't done that. Maybe he knows something. You should listen to him. You get rich by investing and saving and building your money, not spending all that you can.
He probably has that because he is smart/frugal. To Bill Gates no you're not rich. To 95% of the rest of us, yes you are rich. It's all a matter of perspective. If you are trying to get massages and thinking about getting a Porsche 911, you are probably rich compared to most. This isn't something the middle/lower class normally does. Those are things we would daydream about doing if we were rich. And most would agree with your dad that a Porsche 911 is a bad investment. That'd be a very wasteful use of 100-150K or however much long term.
Miser mentality. He’ll come to the end of his life with more money than he can ever spend. Pray that he leaves it to his family and not a dog rescue, because you need to learn the value of a dollar.
You are rich, your father is content living modestly and that's absolutely the way to stay rich. I've never followed this advice in my life but I know it's true! Lol
That definition varies from person to person.
Rich man living a middle class life
I think your father is setting a great example for you as you make your way through life and finances. We have always tried with our kids to avoid talking about whether or not we can afford something. That thinking leads people to start buying things the moment they can “afford” to buy them rather than saving, investing, etc. We have always tried to support the idea that every optional purchase is a choice and we either choose to spend our money on that or we decide that we would rather spend our money on something else, or more importantly save the money to invest it for our future so we don’t have to worry about paying the bills after we retire. Your father’s choices about his money are his. Because it’s his money. If he thinks something isn’t worth it, then he won’t buy it. Good discussions with him about money and what he is saving it for is healthy, but pushing him to believe beleive is wrong with his decisions is not.
Your dad is just frugal and smart with money. With money, you shouldn't think about what you just have. You need to think about the opportunity cost of what it's potential could be if you invested it instead of spending it. Say if you had a 100 dollars in back in 2014 and you bought Nvidia stock at .40 cent instead of whatever you usually buy. That 100 dollars is now worth 31k 10 years later.
Whatever is enough to provide for someone without requiring work to make ends meet. For some people, that's 250k-- others, 500k -- others, 1-2mn, others - 25mn+ It's all relative. Your old man is smart. You should be thankful. Maybe he'll pass it on to you someday. Also, stop worrying about other people's money. It's tacky.
I think you need 1.2 million per year income Your dad has wealth big difference than being rich
Can’t think of stocks as “money” until you cash it all out and have no more stocks.
I had no idea what my father had until he passed, last December, and I started collecting over $800k in cash accounts, life insurance, and investments. Oddly, he told my wife, when we visited some seven months prior, that he was going to leave everything to his (current, second) wife.
Guy probably had a goal for a while of 8 figures in his brokerage account. He doesn’t want to give that up. And at that level, a $150k-$200k car is 1.5%-2% of your portfolio, not a rounding error. Or maybe the guy just doesn’t like Porsche.
What is Dad's source of income?
He was a securities lawyer but retired a year ago. Now he just lets his investments work for him.
nothing wrong with that. sounds like your father is humble and youre not. check yourself
I hope your trust fund is locked down 'til you're 50 or you will blow the lot in a year
Make your own money and buy the car you want. What your parents have isn't your business. Amazing you're worried about being middle class or rich as if this is your money. Go make your own money and use dads tactics on how to accumulate wealth.
According to the IRS you make $1 million per year
I saved every cent in my younger years. Bought an old house at 20 years old. Got married at 21. I only made $150 a week, she made $175. We fixed up the old house one step at a time. We had 3 children by age 30. Today, We are retired. We don't owe a cent to anyone. We enjoy everyday we have. We have 8 grand kids and 200K in savings. We are very rich people.
Hahaha this cracked me up
Rich people stay rich because they continue to do the things that made them rich. Having a net worth of $11 million and still being frugal on purchases of $100 is the biggest, if not entire, reason that he’s worth that much money in the first place.
It's good to be mindful of spending, but your dad is literally lying by saying you're middle class. But living middle class is fine, you are privileged to be in a position where you'll likely never in your life be without a home, medical care when you need and have the opportunity to study and try things with a good safety net to fall on.
your dad is very wise, take careful note of everything he is doing. he understands value! my father is the same way, i am blessed to have such an amazing role model. one of the best money tips i ever heard was from a friend who said, "there is always something to spend your money on". it is profound. every purchase you are making an important decision to let go of some of your precious resource, is it worth it? will you regret the purchase later? one transformative practice i have learned from was to write down my wish-list of purchases. i would plan to get them only when i had the money saved up to buy them. then i would wait and wait, even wait until next year. often waiting beyond when i had the money. almost every single time i would lose interest in owning the items on the wish list. but i would still have the money. money is the most valuable resource, it is your life energy. even $1 is important. having 10 million of them doesnt reduce the importance, responsibility, or scarcity of ownership. my grandfather used to pickup coins off the ground when we would go into the grocery store. he shopped with coupons and saved everything he could, and always had money. hug your dad and ask him for all his best tips on money management, you are so lucky to have that opportunity. edit: i have to add, the porsche isn't worth it! it's a trap. you'll understand one day.
If he rambles about insurance, buying a Tesla wasn’t a smart choice.
Having lots of money saved/on reserve and making lots of money consistently are two totally different lifestyles.
Your dad is definitely upper class (at least in the society i live in) but it sounds like he has wealth as opposed to being rich (which means he's quiet, humble and sensible about his money). It's a good way to be, you should learn all you can from him on that.
Your dad is very smart and you could learn a ton from him I'm sure! You can tell him that the 911 won't lose any value, even he pays over for the car. But the reason many become "rich" is because they consistently plan for their money instead of winging it. Learning the difference between high income and wealth is important. No idea what your fathers income is, but he has been diligent in making sure he builds wealth for the family, which is awesome. Now imagine a certain group of idealists thinks your dad is a theif and want to take it all away....
That’s why your dad is rich.
Reminds me of Shaq telling his kids they ain't rich, he's rich.
I live in what I consider a very rich suburb of a rich city. People here have multi million dollar homes (but don’t look particularly fancy) and many vacation homes on Martha’s Vineyard or the Cape. They all consider themselves middle class. For me with no family support of any kind and kids and wife I also lean towards being frugal. We are one 2008 from disaster.
And how much money do you have?
My numbers are very close to your fathers. We don’t live rich in my opinion. We spend about 200k per year. We drive older cars. Enjoy his legacy and you have your chance to build your own.