The question that arises here would be to ask where Rwanda comes from? the king who formed Rwanda first conquered which people before forming Rwanda same thing for Burundi, there are many small differences in their dialect but the language comes from where who are the real originals? we cannot confirm it because the winning clan will always say that this language is called Kinyarwanda, others Kirundi, but the vanquished in all that? or the small communities which were never under a Rwandan empire? even in Rwanda you will see people speaking other forms of this language like Igikiga and others.. but one thing is for sure they are all from the same family up to Tanzania and Uganda with the Banyankole language
So if various tutsi or hima people speak variations of kinyarwanda, do banyankole or other variations of the language kinyarwanda have hutu? Why mulenge are only tutsi and hima only hima but hutu exist in Rwanda and Burundi only?
Hutus are also elsewhere not only in Rwanda and Burundi, in Congo for example they said that there is a large community of Hutu in Rutshuru and elsewhere in Congo who speak Kinyabwisha, there are around 2 million and the same thing in Tanzania you will see a variant of Hutu and even in Uganda (I forget the names but with research you will find), everywhere you will find Tutsi variants there are always the same variant of Hutu or Twa who speak the same language a little modified , the problem here is that the Tutsi like the Banyamulenge and other variants have always had problems with other clans, they are often in the minority which makes it easier for other clans to mistreat them and that is why we very often talk about their variant more than those of the Hutus who very often make up the majority
Kifumbira , Kinyarutshuru, Kinyamasisi etc... There is also other variant u can find in Rwanda too, If you are on the ground And talk to people you will even ask yourself if you are still in Rwanda
It is generally theorized that the Banyamulenge emigrated from Rwanda a few decades before colonialism, apparently fleeing Rwandan kings and their taxes, and the Rwandan wars of succession after King Rwabugili's death.
The other Rwandophone Congolese consist of the other chiefdoms that were split up from Rwanda during the partition of the Rwandese and Congolese colonies.
There are also a few Rwandophones communities that were never under Rwandans rule. As you know, the Kinyarwanda language is not only spoken in Rwanda, and some communities used the Kinyarwanda language or similar dialects while not being under the rule of the Rwandan king.
It's called Kinyamulenge but it's a dialect of Kinyarwanda. There are more dialects of Kinyarwanda and this "family" of languages is called Kinyarwanda when grouped together.
Linguistically, Kinyarwanda is not a distinct language, but rather a dialect of the Rwanda-Urundi language, but let's not get into that.
You got it right it’s a theory yaje kugira ngo bamare ubwoko bwabatutsi it has been worse when fdlr went there bagashaka gukomeza kwica abatutsi nkibyo bari basize bakoze mu rwanda see mulele war there are people who were trained to kill banyamulenge they are called maimai
I don't know much about the history of Congo apart from it being a Free state for the King of Belgium basically I want to ask was congo under the Tutsi kings and did Also Belgium apply divide and rule and they did to us Rwanda ?
So why are those maimai ?
Who trained them ?
what was their motivation to eliminate Tutsi ?
If Burundian Tutsis are not Rwandese then why would Congolese Tutsi be Rwandan?
Banymulenge are Congolese cuz when Belgium created Congo they where in that part that was now Congo remember Congo was never a kingdom but a place with multiple kingdoms
Absolutely FALSE, Banyamulenge are not from Congo.
They were Rwandese people fleeing Rwandan Mwamis (kings) like king Rwabugiri due to economic persecution (taxes) before colonialism, this is verifiable anywhere on the internet and even on the Wikipedia page of Rwandan history.
obviously you dont know the history of Rwandans who fled Rwanda due to the kings actions.
Yes, just like Rwandans who live in France or UK or USA have passports from those countries and their nationalities is French or British or American, but their cultural heritage is from Rwanda.
So yeah, that's the same thing.
Wassup dawg banyamulenge is a congolese tribe who live at mulenge east kivu they have been living there before colonial times conquered africans.
There are other clans like abanyamasisi, abanyarutchuru,abahema and other clans there they are the people that when rwanda was cut on a part remained to congo in those people as as its only a place the is tutsis and hutu who were banyarwanda before colonial arival and that berlin conference.
That’s the history
Politically then because drc government kills rwandophones people telling them to return to their country that’s the cause of m23 rebels.
Brother socially they differ like they can all be tutsis but totally different even by their looks Imagine a person who grew up drinking milk and other thing and another one who is used to digging and eating potatoes 😂😂
What he told you is a lie.
Banyamulenge are Rwandans refugees who fled Rwanda to what is now Congo before colonialism.
After that, there were 3 waves of Rwandan refugees fleeing to Congo due to problems in Rwanda, the last two being: 1) in 1959, due to the "Hutu Revolution" or "[Muyaga](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Revolution)" (the Wind) as its known in kinyarwanda, and then 2) in 1994 after the genocide, thousands of Rwandans fleeing due to fearing RPF Inkotanyi who had seized power.
Basically, there have never been any "Congolese Rwandophone" or rwandophone tribe in Congo, they all came from Rwanda fleeing their country or emigrating due various events that happened in history.
Absolutely FALSE, Banyamulenge have never been Congolese.
They were Rwandese people fleeing Rwandan Mwamis (kings) like king Rwabugiri due to economic persecution (taxes), this is verifiable anywhere on the internet and even on the Wikipedia page of Rwandan history.
obviously you dont know the history of Rwandans who fled Rwanda due to the kings actions.
I am a munyamulenge brother our ancestors live there before 1700 banyamulenge we have clans from rwanda yes from burundi.. banyamulenge have never been Rwandans don’t be fooled
Where did I say or write anything about Tutsis?? Are you crazy? Do you imagine things?
*You* stop bringing your constant Tutsi victimhood narrative in things that aren't even about that.
Nigga how bout you stop being a fucking jerk and look into how your rhetoric is similar to what the DRC government is saying about Tutsis that will inadvertently harm Banyamulenge in the eastern part of that country. You may think ur opinion lives in a vacuum but a lot of what your saying is talking points that can encourage people to further destabilize and incite violence in said region. It’s not about being a victim it’s about being enough of a decent person to know when ur words are encouraging harm. That’s the last thing we need right now.
Its not an "opinion", its history. Learn your history and facts instead of replying with emotion.
If you're angry at Rwandan history then you have a big problem. Blame the mwamis that are now dead of you want, but your Tutsi victim mindset won't change the fact that thousands of Rwandans fled to Congo before colonialism due to Rwabugiri's actions and other things. I know you probably didn't know this part of Rwandan history because the current Rwandan government doesn't teach the complete history of Rwanda in schools, but that's not an excuse to be ignorant and always have Tutsi victim mentality.
I don't have a Tutsi victim mentality. I'm just stating that there's people who are related to Tutsis who have been wrapped up in the conflict going on in Congo and are now being conflated with the M23 rebels and their violent actions. Regardless of how the Banyamulenge arrived in the region, the fact that people are using M23's actions and some rhetoric akin to what you are saying to strip Banyamulenge of their right to live in congo by implying that they weren't "native" is not conductive. We can condemn some Tutsis who use what happened historically to justify occupation of the Congo without resorting to doing the same tactic (using historical context to justify the lack of indigeneity of Banyamulenge in Congo, thus contributed to their further marginalization). In any case, I've said my piece. Have a good day.
I am confused our history tells that colonizers were the one who brought up Hutu Tutsi things and then you are mentioning that The Tutsi went to congo even before colonization this is are confusing, yes I understand Tutsi Hutu and batwa were economic levels before colonization and this brings me to this question how did FDL differential Tutsi and Hutu in congo without their indangamutu or ibuku as we may call it ?
2 are all the people who fleed Rwanda (banyamurenge) Tutsi ?
Yves umva abazungu ntago aribo bazanye amoko birazwi abami nabategetsi burwanda bari mubwoko bwabatutsi you can see it the nose there length and everything ariko abakoloni icyo bazanye ni ukwangishanya bababwira bati dore barabayobora kandi ni nabo biga kandi arimwe ba nyamwinshi bagi rero mubakure kubutegetsi … ngayo nguko abakoloni bafasha abahutu bahirika ingoma ya cyami bimika abahutu (kayibanda) nuko and that was what led to genocide against tutsis ngo babamare babasubize iwabo muri ethiopia
Ariko abanyamulenge bo ni abakongomani bahoze muri kongo kuva kera na mbere cyane yabakoloni cyakoza hari abaturutse mu rwanda, nkabakomotse ku gikomangoma Byinshi bya Bamara babaye abanyabyinshi
Yea that's my question. Like all this js new to me and even my parents who are rwandan they don't know much if you ask them they are vague I think it's not taught in school there ???
This is a really informative thread
The question that arises here would be to ask where Rwanda comes from? the king who formed Rwanda first conquered which people before forming Rwanda same thing for Burundi, there are many small differences in their dialect but the language comes from where who are the real originals? we cannot confirm it because the winning clan will always say that this language is called Kinyarwanda, others Kirundi, but the vanquished in all that? or the small communities which were never under a Rwandan empire? even in Rwanda you will see people speaking other forms of this language like Igikiga and others.. but one thing is for sure they are all from the same family up to Tanzania and Uganda with the Banyankole language
So if various tutsi or hima people speak variations of kinyarwanda, do banyankole or other variations of the language kinyarwanda have hutu? Why mulenge are only tutsi and hima only hima but hutu exist in Rwanda and Burundi only?
Hutus are also elsewhere not only in Rwanda and Burundi, in Congo for example they said that there is a large community of Hutu in Rutshuru and elsewhere in Congo who speak Kinyabwisha, there are around 2 million and the same thing in Tanzania you will see a variant of Hutu and even in Uganda (I forget the names but with research you will find), everywhere you will find Tutsi variants there are always the same variant of Hutu or Twa who speak the same language a little modified , the problem here is that the Tutsi like the Banyamulenge and other variants have always had problems with other clans, they are often in the minority which makes it easier for other clans to mistreat them and that is why we very often talk about their variant more than those of the Hutus who very often make up the majority
Thank you that clears things up also. Never heard of kinyabwisha .
Kifumbira , Kinyarutshuru, Kinyamasisi etc... There is also other variant u can find in Rwanda too, If you are on the ground And talk to people you will even ask yourself if you are still in Rwanda
Wow
It is generally theorized that the Banyamulenge emigrated from Rwanda a few decades before colonialism, apparently fleeing Rwandan kings and their taxes, and the Rwandan wars of succession after King Rwabugili's death. The other Rwandophone Congolese consist of the other chiefdoms that were split up from Rwanda during the partition of the Rwandese and Congolese colonies. There are also a few Rwandophones communities that were never under Rwandans rule. As you know, the Kinyarwanda language is not only spoken in Rwanda, and some communities used the Kinyarwanda language or similar dialects while not being under the rule of the Rwandan king.
Interesting so then it's wrong to say they were/are speaking kinyarwanda then right? It must have different names
It's called Kinyamulenge but it's a dialect of Kinyarwanda. There are more dialects of Kinyarwanda and this "family" of languages is called Kinyarwanda when grouped together. Linguistically, Kinyarwanda is not a distinct language, but rather a dialect of the Rwanda-Urundi language, but let's not get into that.
Wow the rabbit hole gets deeper 🤯 njyewe narerewe muri states ariko ndumunyarwanda, Gusa kumva umuntu kuvuga urulimi rwawe maze guhakana ko aribyo uri binangaje
You got it right it’s a theory yaje kugira ngo bamare ubwoko bwabatutsi it has been worse when fdlr went there bagashaka gukomeza kwica abatutsi nkibyo bari basize bakoze mu rwanda see mulele war there are people who were trained to kill banyamulenge they are called maimai
I don't know much about the history of Congo apart from it being a Free state for the King of Belgium basically I want to ask was congo under the Tutsi kings and did Also Belgium apply divide and rule and they did to us Rwanda ? So why are those maimai ? Who trained them ? what was their motivation to eliminate Tutsi ?
If Burundian Tutsis are not Rwandese then why would Congolese Tutsi be Rwandan? Banymulenge are Congolese cuz when Belgium created Congo they where in that part that was now Congo remember Congo was never a kingdom but a place with multiple kingdoms
You are right this should be be the top comment banyamulenge are bakongomani.
Ok so they are nationality of Congolese but historically and linguistically rwandan -burundian
Goofy Congo got like 200+ languages and it was crated by colonization all these different tribes where forced to become one country
Absolutely FALSE, Banyamulenge are not from Congo. They were Rwandese people fleeing Rwandan Mwamis (kings) like king Rwabugiri due to economic persecution (taxes) before colonialism, this is verifiable anywhere on the internet and even on the Wikipedia page of Rwandan history. obviously you dont know the history of Rwandans who fled Rwanda due to the kings actions.
Their nationality is from Congo even if their cultural heritage is from Rwanda. so nothing wrong in saying that they are Congolese.
Yes, just like Rwandans who live in France or UK or USA have passports from those countries and their nationalities is French or British or American, but their cultural heritage is from Rwanda. So yeah, that's the same thing.
U said a lot of nothing
I taught you your history.
Wassup dawg banyamulenge is a congolese tribe who live at mulenge east kivu they have been living there before colonial times conquered africans. There are other clans like abanyamasisi, abanyarutchuru,abahema and other clans there they are the people that when rwanda was cut on a part remained to congo in those people as as its only a place the is tutsis and hutu who were banyarwanda before colonial arival and that berlin conference. That’s the history Politically then because drc government kills rwandophones people telling them to return to their country that’s the cause of m23 rebels.
Thank you for clear response, so if a rwandan from kigali meet with a rwandaphone from congo how can tell the difference ? 😀
Yes you can tell the difference.. it's slightly different. My parents were all born in Congo / Masisi.. (before 1959). They moved from Congo to Rwanda after the Genocide when the "génocidaires" fled to Congo and started killing and taking their revenge on "Rwandophones" who were already living in Congo.
Brother socially they differ like they can all be tutsis but totally different even by their looks Imagine a person who grew up drinking milk and other thing and another one who is used to digging and eating potatoes 😂😂
What he told you is a lie. Banyamulenge are Rwandans refugees who fled Rwanda to what is now Congo before colonialism. After that, there were 3 waves of Rwandan refugees fleeing to Congo due to problems in Rwanda, the last two being: 1) in 1959, due to the "Hutu Revolution" or "[Muyaga](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Revolution)" (the Wind) as its known in kinyarwanda, and then 2) in 1994 after the genocide, thousands of Rwandans fleeing due to fearing RPF Inkotanyi who had seized power. Basically, there have never been any "Congolese Rwandophone" or rwandophone tribe in Congo, they all came from Rwanda fleeing their country or emigrating due various events that happened in history.
wrong
Absolutely FALSE, Banyamulenge have never been Congolese. They were Rwandese people fleeing Rwandan Mwamis (kings) like king Rwabugiri due to economic persecution (taxes), this is verifiable anywhere on the internet and even on the Wikipedia page of Rwandan history. obviously you dont know the history of Rwandans who fled Rwanda due to the kings actions.
I am a munyamulenge brother our ancestors live there before 1700 banyamulenge we have clans from rwanda yes from burundi.. banyamulenge have never been Rwandans don’t be fooled
please stop with the anti Tutsi nonsense. this is how radicals get fuel, especially with what’s going on in eastern DRC, where banyamulenge reside
Where did I say or write anything about Tutsis?? Are you crazy? Do you imagine things? *You* stop bringing your constant Tutsi victimhood narrative in things that aren't even about that.
Nigga how bout you stop being a fucking jerk and look into how your rhetoric is similar to what the DRC government is saying about Tutsis that will inadvertently harm Banyamulenge in the eastern part of that country. You may think ur opinion lives in a vacuum but a lot of what your saying is talking points that can encourage people to further destabilize and incite violence in said region. It’s not about being a victim it’s about being enough of a decent person to know when ur words are encouraging harm. That’s the last thing we need right now.
Its not an "opinion", its history. Learn your history and facts instead of replying with emotion. If you're angry at Rwandan history then you have a big problem. Blame the mwamis that are now dead of you want, but your Tutsi victim mindset won't change the fact that thousands of Rwandans fled to Congo before colonialism due to Rwabugiri's actions and other things. I know you probably didn't know this part of Rwandan history because the current Rwandan government doesn't teach the complete history of Rwanda in schools, but that's not an excuse to be ignorant and always have Tutsi victim mentality.
I don't have a Tutsi victim mentality. I'm just stating that there's people who are related to Tutsis who have been wrapped up in the conflict going on in Congo and are now being conflated with the M23 rebels and their violent actions. Regardless of how the Banyamulenge arrived in the region, the fact that people are using M23's actions and some rhetoric akin to what you are saying to strip Banyamulenge of their right to live in congo by implying that they weren't "native" is not conductive. We can condemn some Tutsis who use what happened historically to justify occupation of the Congo without resorting to doing the same tactic (using historical context to justify the lack of indigeneity of Banyamulenge in Congo, thus contributed to their further marginalization). In any case, I've said my piece. Have a good day.
I am confused our history tells that colonizers were the one who brought up Hutu Tutsi things and then you are mentioning that The Tutsi went to congo even before colonization this is are confusing, yes I understand Tutsi Hutu and batwa were economic levels before colonization and this brings me to this question how did FDL differential Tutsi and Hutu in congo without their indangamutu or ibuku as we may call it ? 2 are all the people who fleed Rwanda (banyamurenge) Tutsi ?
Yves umva abazungu ntago aribo bazanye amoko birazwi abami nabategetsi burwanda bari mubwoko bwabatutsi you can see it the nose there length and everything ariko abakoloni icyo bazanye ni ukwangishanya bababwira bati dore barabayobora kandi ni nabo biga kandi arimwe ba nyamwinshi bagi rero mubakure kubutegetsi … ngayo nguko abakoloni bafasha abahutu bahirika ingoma ya cyami bimika abahutu (kayibanda) nuko and that was what led to genocide against tutsis ngo babamare babasubize iwabo muri ethiopia Ariko abanyamulenge bo ni abakongomani bahoze muri kongo kuva kera na mbere cyane yabakoloni cyakoza hari abaturutse mu rwanda, nkabakomotse ku gikomangoma Byinshi bya Bamara babaye abanyabyinshi
Yea that's my question. Like all this js new to me and even my parents who are rwandan they don't know much if you ask them they are vague I think it's not taught in school there ???