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Princess Anne did not want to give her children royal titles because she wanted them to have independent lives from the BRF. The Tindalls would represent the monarchy infinitely better than the Harkles, but it does not seem likely that they would want to become working members of the BRF.
For sure! Love them! H&M can't ever think to stand in their shadow. Can you picture that? Duke of Pubic Plugs and the Dentured Duchess of Ozempic. Yuck. No contest.
Not a fan of the Harkles at all but Zara and Mike would if they continued to have commercial tie ups and perform royal duties be half in and half out which is what the Harkles wanted in the first place.
I believe the Tindalls earn far less money that what Madam was aiming for, but you are correct. They would have to step back from sponsorships, etc. If they were willing, I think KCIII could make it worth their while. I understand he has a bit of money saved up :-)
Perhaps if Zara went “working royal” and had to give up her sponsorships, Mike could stay “out” and continue with his sponsorships and business endeavors. He could still escort his wife to big social events, but not on official duties, where Zara could act as a second Princess Anne, assisting her mother. This might be too close to half in half out, but the late Queen did suggest for Meghan to keep working as an actress while Harry was technically a working royal.
Zara are Mike are close to William and George, and Zara’s always been loved by her uncle Charles (who first suggested her name be Zara).
OK, didn't think of that. Possibly Zara would do it for her Mom, if she took over some of her Mom's events, that I can see. The financials of her losing income from sponsorships would have to be dealt with...but to take burden from her Mom, that is something I can see Zara doing.
Yep. Mike and Zara aren't fame and fortune hunters desperate for status and a billionaire lifestyle. They earn money from things they're passionate about (horses, sport, fitness) and aren't trying to merch, beg for private planes, etc. Good Lord, Meghan was never cut out for royal life.
One, why act like a censor board official? Is the sub about cheering the BRF relentlessly? Two there are clear contradictions between allowing Zara to be half in and half out while denying that to Harry. Three Charles behaves like Bertie Wooster a lot of the time. Edit: regret to see how some people gang up on people with a different perspective. Typical.
No what’s typical is coming to a sub and posting just to cause problems. Besides the fact the King has made no such decision. This is bull just like all the other tabloid crap. No one is getting half in and half out.
No problems were caused. Yes this news is bull but many of you take bull like this very seriously in other contexts. In fact some even create imaginary scenarios of their own. Nothing wrong with that, it's just being creative!
The issue was : can Zara perform royal duties while still having commercial contracts. Half in and half out. Logically no since QE didn't permit Harry. She set a precedent. But Charles will use Zara to bring back Harry. Charles doesn't have QE' s spine or principles.
True about Princess Anne but even she has acknowledged that the monarchy is a bit too slim. There will be a time when William needs some support and sadly that could be sooner than any of us imagined. The Edinburghs and the Tindalls will provide William with good support..and possibly the York sisters. Who knows.
The York sisters look at their own interests. Zara is the perfect Royal and in my opinion is the best they have to offer. She has Anne’s attitude and sense of duty, the queens steadfastness and Phillip’s humour.
Catherine and William have always shied away from the spotlight and shrunk back to allow the other stars to shine which I feel like is to their detriment sometimes.
The queens “never complain never explain” motto was great in 1960s but with social media and roachel it’s a bit outdated. I was pleasantly surprised when it came out Catherine insisted on the “recollections may vary” being included.
Zara has always had the freedom to be more brash and you can see she doesn’t hide her distaste especially around roachel. She is Anne and Phillip most improper characteristics and I love that.
Yes and if there is a conversation on pulling Zara in it could be a part of the discussion of allowing Anne to very gradually begin to cut back on her duties.
So true! Princess Zara would be a natural "heir" to her mother's role.
Let's look at some facts:
--In January 2025, the average age of working royals (excluding PW) will be 72: KCIII (76),
QC (77), PA (74), the Edinburghs (60), and Gloucesters (80 and 79). And KCIII is not well and we don't know to what extent.
--Prince William is 43 yrs old and we do not know in what capacity Catherine will return or when. The Prince of Wales **IS** going to need support.
Yes and no. Both of their spouses are very savvy and smart and would never allow the York sisters to be tainted by the scandal their parents seem to attract.
Agree about the York sisters. It feels like they are more about the "status" versus the role. Of the two, I definitely prefer Bea. Eugenie seems to exude negative energy.
Catherine absolutely saved the Monarchy with "recollections may vary." It was perfect absolutely diplomatic, but called Meghan markle a liar right to her face.
Her enemies underestimate the Princess of Wales so much. She looks so delicate, but she has a spine of stainless steel. Meghan Markle is out to wipe out Prince William and Prince George. Catherine will wipe Lolo off the map before she will allow that.
I still think Lady Louise is a viable working royal--at least PT--and that could be combined with a career that would not conflict with royal duties, such as professor/teacher.
She's apparently close to William, and Lady Louise bridges the age gap between William & when William's kids are old enough to be working royals. When William becomes king, his children probably won't be old enough to take royal duties, and Princess Anne will likely have retired. Louise's parents will probably be the oldest working royals left at that point.
Lady Louise could have a career with an English lit degree that would not be a conflict of interest w/official duties. Her brother is another possibility, the option should be open to him if he wants it & if he would like a career that's also not a conflict with being a working royal.
With the younger generation who aren't heir, it seems as if a regular career (that does not present a conflict of interest) might be a good balance along with (obviously less) royal duties--that would make life more interesting and keep at least Charlotte and Louis from feeling 'trapped' like Harry--that they can only ever do royal duties or they have to flee.
**QEII rejection of half in half out for H and M was based on the way they would be 'earning their own money.' And the conflict with being working royals representing her, the Queen.**
The issue is it can’t appear that an organisation or item has the queens approval. Zara has wonderful endorsement deals but her husband was a successful athlete whose career earned the endorsement. Roachel would get endorsements bc of her relation to the Queen not her own achievements.
Yes. I'd wonder if Zara became a working royal, thus ending her ability for endorsements, would her husband also have to give up his endorsements.
M seemingly already had history of trying to get freebie clothes ETA while a royal, so I can see where immediately M in ads or pics of M 'merching' where she got the clothes/jewelry free would be a problem. She was prohibited from that being a working royal, it's known she did not like being prohibited, and QEII rightly suspected that 'making their own money' would mean M would be 'endorsing/merching' 500 products w/in a month.
Also, H and M were known to be interested in 'producing,' which is where Prince Edward ran into conflicts of interest and had to quit that career. Realistically, while it's claimed the Palace told M she could continue to act, it was clear to QEII that M was not really gonna be the next Bond Girl making bank. Even with a close relation to the Queen. Even cultivating friendship with George Clooney.
ETA so that QEII did not see any acting jobs she'd get as a conflict.
Slim, it may be, but I don't see zara giving up her commercial business. Working royalty limits your options, and zara has the best of both worlds, part of the family, gets invited to the big events but also a private citizen.
See my post above about the "graying" the RF. Our current working royals are all aging. Prince William will need support - esp if Catherine's role is less public facing due to her illness.
They can't have half in/out. It doesn't work, which is why H&M were told no. The York sisters could become working royals. They have the titles and no commercial operations. Lady Louise and James could step up, too. Zara and Peter are a no-go unless they are willing to give up their commercial endeavours.
\*\*the York sisters do have jobs, as could Louise and James, so long as they weren't the type of 'commercial' ventures that would be conflict of interest. Seeing that Lady Louise is studying English lit, a career as a professor, researcher, or teacher would work.
Half in/half out didn't work for H and M b/c of the ways they planned 'to earn their own money.' It would't work for Zara with her current sponsorships. It didn't work with Louise and James' parents because TV/PR there was conflict with influence, basically scandals, so they had to quit.
Being part time royals works fine if your job doesn't conflict. William was able to be a SAR pilot.
What a delightful proposal! At this point in their lives, they may be ready for the steady income that working for BP would bring. They're both charismatic, fun people and well liked. It would be nice for Mike to receive a title. As an expert horsewoman, she'd have all sorts of opportunities rep'ing the RF.
This has always been a huge character flaw concerning the ILBW: She's never had a skill (OK, now, tongue in cheek), nor a field of expertise. She's never been athletic, can't play an instrument, never had any serious academic achievement, never developed a talent - there's never been anything interesting about her; she's flat, one-dimensional, completely self-absorbed - all of which makes for a boring person no one is drawn to. No humor, always chastising people, finding fault, yet pretending she has depth of character by pretend, falsified interests. She's a huge failure as a choice for a life partner for someone who'd been in the public eye since birth. That the Hazbeen was so woefully unprepared to make a grounded, considered decision as consequential for him as this has been speaks volumes about his character.
But getting back to the Tindalls: Lightyears ahead of the Hazbeens! They're already well received.
With everything the Harkles have put the RF through, the Tindalls have proven themselves to be wonderfully loyael, talented, personable members of the RF. Zara would do so well with patronages! Plus, with the two of them having not been bound by RF guidelines for so long, their personalities have been able to shine more so than if they were working royals. I think they would make wonderful additions to the working Royals. They bring an element of relaxing fun to the Senior Royals, but not in a petulant obnoxious Harry way.
***"That the Hazbeen was so woefully unprepared to make a grounded, considered decision as consequential for him as this has been speaks volumes about his character."***
Brilliant comment! After being dumped twice, Harry was again looking at what his brother had - gorgeous, kind, educated wife and children - and green with envy.
It seems Haz chose Megsy for all the wrong reasons: lust, anger, Mummy issues, and a determination to stick it to the RF - "Look what the Ginger got!" - despite assurances from many (in a position to know) that Meghan is nothing like his Mum and not suitable for the role.
He is now destined to remain on the sidelines and chase fame and fortune in the most unfortunate ways. He has lost the respect of a nation, friends, family, the military, etc. All because of a vacuous woman who appears to have used him for her own means.
Yeah but it only works when people WANT you as a patron, Megnut.
I'll break it down for you...
Patron - gives awards and helps raise money and attention
Sussex - gives money to take awards and attention.
**If she jumps too hard I'm afraid her hair will fall out, the fillers might sag, and her veneers will unbuckle and show the v shaped sawn off tooth underneath!**
work behind the scenes, become a palace or king's background employee, secretary, need professional qualifications. For example, Peter Phillip could easily be in charge of the Royal Foundation because he has a university degree in finance and the fact that his company is collaborating on garden parties from 2020. The Duke of Gloucester uses used his qualifications as an architect to fund organizations that conserve buildings and structures, such as English Heritage. Lady Margarita Armstrong-Jones studied jewelry design and stone engraving in Paris, who knows whether she will be in charge of managing the royal jewelry warehouse in the future or not. James, Earl of Wessex can be in charge of the Duke of Edingburgh or represent the British royal family in the Commonwealth even without holding the titles of Prince and Duke, provided he has the corresponding qualifications in diplomacy or international relations. Modernizing the monarchy means specializing in positions. To ensure royal power, they need to secure official positions in palaces and important institutions, not "royalty". "working member" - representative of the monarchy, appears everywhere. If you are interested in the royal family and palace jobs, you will see that as long as William develops a plan to modernize the monarchy, there will be a large royal force with the right qualities .
> The Duke of Gloucester uses used his qualifications as an architect to fund organizations that conserve buildings and structures, such as English Heritage.
Except he doesn't use his money for 'English Heritage', he isn't even on the board.
The organisation's first Chairman, Lord Montagu of Beaulieu.
Both English Heritage and Historic England are NGOs, and neither have royal patrons.
https://www.royal.uk/the-duke-of-gloucester
https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/about-us/our-history/
https://historicengland.org.uk/about/who-we-are/commission/
That's right, I mentioned that if PP wants to serve the royal family, he can join as a director related to finance. Today, he has his own business, but his event planning company organizes royal events. I forget the company name but it was first mentioned in 2022 (Platinum Anniversary garden party event).
Hasn't been done. Edward VII made exceptions for the daughters of his daughter Louise. Although they were teenager when raised to princess status. Victoria had also made exceptions to the Duke of Fife title that she'd bestowed on Louise's husband. By seniority, a daughter of Louise would inherit the dukedom. Alexandra became Duchess of Fife on the death of her father. Her only son predeceased her and on her death, her sister Maud's only son inherited the dukedom.
The difference between the 2 couples is that Zara and Mike have already had success due to their talent and work ethic. They are loved and would be a great asset to the RF.
Now the other 2 have no talent or work ethic, are entitled and expect things handed to them because of their titles. They only want back into the RF because they have been complete failures on their own. On top of that they've bashed the RF in books, interviews and documentaries.... so why would the RF want them back?
The Harkles have talent! They are very talented in whining, complaining, playing the victim, freeloading, bullying, and generally not living by any societal code of conduct or manners.
Seriously though- Meghan is not talented in any way. Harry has...his Xbox? The inferiority complex should be huge with the Harkles. While the rest of the RF have earned respect through their work and service to the country, the Harkles demand attention for simply being born and breathing in oxygen other people need.
Meghan could have succeeded as working royal, but it would have meant being happy with royal life (and following protocols and respecting hierarchy), accepting guidance from the Palace, and agreeing to a suitable role. She never intended to do any of that and Harry loved it. He saw her as a ticket out of what he considered drudgery.
So this story originated in the Mail on Sunday? Then a journalist who has met Zara & Mike writes an article about it suggesting that a half in & half out thing is already in place? Could I possibly be smelling some BS PR from across the pond? A couple who are happily married with 3 children - one of whom was born on the bathroom floor * & earning their own money, who attend royal events, but are also so real & down to earth with Zara in her flip flops and blue toenails. Sorry there’s just something that doesn’t feel right about this article to me.
*I’m waiting for TOW to try something similar. “I was just picking the strawberries to make a new batch of jam when suddenly I went into labour and little Monty just came right out there among the strawberries. Of course I was on my own for the whole thing but it was so easy. I hosed him down with the hosepipe, wrapped him up in part of my skirt I tore off, put the placenta on the compost and finished picking the strawberries because I felt it important that he should hit the ground running just like me” 🤪
On the plus side, the UK general public would approve of the Tindalls working for the Crown. Would they? If yes, remuneration might be a problem if they're currently earning in excess of a million pounds per year.
Charles has always been close to Zara as has William. Mike is like a brother to William. How I would handle the formal aspects of this hire:
Bestow Countess of X on Zara (lifetime title)
Bestow a knighthood on Mike.
Zara works for Charles (allowance through the Privy Purse) and can begin taking over some of her mother's work. Mike works for William (salary from the Duchy of Cornwall).
If all goes well, Zara will work for King William. Willam can give Mike a title, but he continues to work for the PoW (George is already fond of Mike and by then Mike will be an experienced hand.) If needed Willam or George can bring one of Tindalls into the fold (Mia has the edge on that at this point.)
No chance, of being a working Royal. Zara would need to give up all her external money making deals and endorsements, otherwise shed have the exact deal H&M wanted as a part-time royal. Never going to happen.
This doesn't mean Charles couldn't give them a title but I doubt it will happen.
Mike and Zara love William and PW needs help. Every other working royal will be in the 60-80 yr old range in 2025 and we don't know the prognosis for the King or Catherine. By the time PW is 50, the BP balcony could be quite sparse.
The British people love both Zara and Mike so I think even at their current status they would be great at representing the monarchy without having titles. If they got a half in half out status that would give the brats H&M reason to claim that they are being treated differently than others and will out the R card to hurt the RF. They could help out Princess Anne with her busy schedule to get their feet wet. Everyone was happy to see them at the garden party. Maybe Zara could accompany her mother on few visits and see how she is received by the public especially now with Anne recovering from her injury. Every action from the RF gets a reaction from the Hazbeen’s like Fergie joining the family at Christmas.
No. She and Mike will support at events like Ascot , Christmas concerts, garden parties attend sporting events in a visible capacity and they might take on some charity patronages in a private capacity etc but they have their own commercial interests that they would have to give up.
I thought it was interesting that Lady Louise was featured at ttc. Not really noticed because of PoW appearance but she participated in the carriage ride and was on the balcony... she's not a working royal and she is not a minor (the previous criteria)so why was she there? If there is anyone they might ask to join the working Royals my money would be on her.
I thought this too. They are letting her finish her studies and gearing up to having her have a larger role in the royal family. She seems like a lovely young woman with a good head on her shoulders and has an excellent work ethic. I think she'll be an asset to the inner circle of working royals.
Zara would be wonderful too but she's a 40 something woman with children and a business acumen that she's spent the last 20 years building. She will not want to give that up whereas Lady Louise is still young and hasn't yet started making a completely self sufficient, independent life yet. She hasn't got anything yet to give up like Zara so she would be a practical choice to invite to be a full time working royal until PPOW children can take on the roles.
It's deeply unfair for the author of that article to talk about Beatrice as someone who "refers to herself as 'princess' at every opportunity". She just flew freaking EASYJET to a speaking engagement, where her biography only called her "Beatrice York".
Why do these royal writers always have to find a villain in their piece?
I have worked with the princess and only ever called her by her first name. She never once mentioned princess as she was aware we knew she was. There are always conflicting stories of their behaviour but thats my experience. She can work with us anytime. Very pleasant.
Beatrice seems like a valuable addition to the RF. Eugenie may be lovely in person, but my *perception* is that she has far less charisma.
As a mental health professional, I have wondered if she has a mental health diagnosis (i.e. depression) or childhood trauma related to her scoliosis.
It's all about power and status with Meghan Markle. Despite her insistence on "linked not ranked" and "equality" she seems to love throwing her title around with an accompanying list of demands (i.e. "do not make eye contact with the Duchess", etc.). Not sure if it's actually true but it sounds believable.
I remember reading something about the front row of a fashion show where one of the young European royals elegantly introduced herself as ‘princess xyz’ while Eugenie kind of plunked herself down and said ‘Hi, I’m Euge.’ The writer was clearly charmed.
I think zara and Mike support william when it counts. They make the rf look good even without their titles. Probably lady louise and beatrice have a chance. They will figure it out. No one bashed their family not even andrew. Lesson harry didn't learn. Oh well
So nothing is stopping the foundation from making a.......patron change. lol. Especially since the current patron is criminally involved in destroying court evidence. Oh, what a tangled web he weaved when first he practiced to to deceive! (Wait for it, folks.)
yep. After Megxit the charities could choose if they wanted a new royal patron or if they wanted to stay with Harry and Meghan Markle. Most chose a new royal patron, but a few - Ingriftus, One Young World, Scotty´s little soldiers - chose the Grifters.
Ingriftus and One young World are plagued with problems behind the scenes but Scotty's little soldier who ever runs that charity. I want to speak with them because they were DUMB, they should've been fired
I think it's clear with these organisations that H and M could continue as private patrons if the orgs agreed (and really it's hard to turn down a famous person) BUT that they would NOT be royal patrons as those were returned to QEII as were Andrew's....at least by the time the trial year ended in 2021.
True, but if the BRF provides no support for Ingriftus it will eventually have an impact. Also, there is nothing stopping someone else in the UK from launching a UK-based organization that is similar to IG.
I think the BRF won't go near Invictus again. It doesn't seem to be on the up and up if athletes have to bear all of their own costs to compete/attend and patrons/board members are wildly charging expenses. It's a dead horse still being flogged I think.
It's gone past being flogged it's in a can of pet food.
Lovely idea but a complete waste of money. It would be much better to just give funding directly to injured vets and their families to help them rebuild their lives or to local groups to improve sports facilities/access for all disabled people.
yep, agree. Invictus is dodgy, unable to attract private sponsors and relying on public funding. It is also 6 times as expensive per participant as the Paraolympics. Their financials are not transparent.
Where can I find out more about this? I tried googling but I couldn’t find much, even when I added “Reddit” to my search a lot of the results were from that other sub-the H&H Netflix show sub-and seemed to be mostly asskissery, and I didn’t even bother to read through the puff pieces. Where can I find the REAL dirt?
try looking in this sub - it was discussed a lot after the Dusseldorf IG a year ago. There was a sinner who had the costs of the Paraolympics and said IG was 6-8 times as expensive per participant. But there was also a lot of info on the organisation, donors etc.
>Personal opinion: If Harry accepts the Pat Tillman award, the following day the BRF announces Mike and Zara Tindall are now the official patrons of Invictus Games.
O.M.G. if that happened I would dance in the streets all day long!
They are adults now Zara and Peter and they love their uncle Charles and if he needs them I would bet we would see them both with Mike at Zaras side shaking hands and people curtseying to Princess Zara......it definitely has a ring to it!!
Perhaps Zara would agree to be Princess at least until the Wales children are active working royals? She could then return to private life if she chose, thus serving the monarchy during its time of need.
I'm thinking wayyy ahead, here. One other reason to make Zara a working Royal Princess, is that 20-30 years from now, some of her own children might be needed as working (or at least participating) royals, in some fashion. Nobody knows what the future of the Monarchy will be. When George is King, he might need some cousins to represent him, the way QE-II's cousins have. Her children (as well as Beatrice's and Eugenie's, perhaps Peter's) will learn about being a working royal by observing Zara.
Wait?! Is that sarcasm for the Harkles invisible kids or is it really a question?
Also if it's true, we already see August's face during the Jubilee celebration just search it to google and you would see 1 picture of it
No, no sarcastic intent. All the photos I've seen are side on when he was burying his head into Eugenie and he's been walking ahead of the camera. The Markles aren't in the discussion. I can't find that Jubilee photo. Do you have access and a link?
There's a picture here https://media.tatler.com/photos/63cfb9778bbeea04672c4aae/master/w_1600,c_limit/1401290609
It's from this article - archived - https://archive.ph/H39Os
I wouldn't want to either if I were her I just thought it was strange that she was in the carriage procession when she didn't need to be and wondered if it might indicate that she could be given a role in future. Probably not but she seems like a lovely girl.
Richard Eden said in his newsletter that William is going to follow the Continental European model and just have a core central royal family, so I doubt King Charles will be making Zara a princess. Rebecca English has also said there are things the royals don’t do because the Sussexes aren’t allowed to eg, the York princesses doing royal engagements because they have jobs.
however zara, Beatrice and Eugenie have been very visible at the more « sociable » royal engagements such as the garden parties and Ascot in the absence of Catherine, I like this and I’m sure it will continue
three things:
how would Hilary Rose know?
Zara and Mike earn money through many paid sponsorships which is not permitted for Royals.
Princess Anne declined titles for her children.
Not just the fact that Anne turned the titles down when they were children, but as a grandchild of the reigning monarch she could have chosen to start going by Princess at any point between her 18th birthday and the Queen’s death and she didn’t.
I don’t get the impression that she wants to be a Princess. Could she still make royal visits without a title or funding? I could see it happening on a volunteer basis.
She could not have the sponsorships if she was representing the King. I believe that non-working BRF members might be allowed to 'accompany' a working royal on a tour 'by invitation of' the royal. I think that's been done w/one of the non-working family members at least once. I could see one of the york sisters or lady louise doing this (on a college break), for example going with Charles/Camilla on the Australia visit as he's unwell.
I just think Zara has too many sponsorships to be able to do a tour or major event. She might be able to present an award on behalf of her mother at one of Anne's less-known patronages, say if Anne's concussion recovery goes on for an extended time, because I'd guess w/Anne's # of engagements some of them can't be rescheduled if Anne has to be off too much longer. It just might not be worth it as the critics will say 'why is she allowed w/all the commercial sponsorships when H and M weren't'
You never know, Zara may be more willing now than she was years ago, and I think that what Mr and Mrs Meghan Markle think about it becomes less and less important + Harry Markle and The Neverending Legal Problems make it more and more difficult for the BRF to have any connection with him at all.
If Zara is made a working royal, she might have to give up her sponsorships since there is a potential conflict of interest. This could lead to a temporary drop in income depending on how lucrative her sponsorships are. She has to consider whether this is in her interests on the whole - even if the King wants it, she's not obliged to agree.
I think Earl or Baronet would be more appropriate. However, we’d probably just have Princess Zara because both Eugenie and Bea are princesses married to regular guys.
The King can make anyone a prince or princess by letters patent. And technically could make someone a duke - recreate an extinct dukedom as for the Duke of Cambridge and Duke of Sussex - but that is not done very often these days.
As much as I like Zara and Mike, and I think Beatrice is an asset, I’m not sure I like the precedent of William plucking from his cousins and assigning them as working royals. Wouldn’t that set up Prince George to later be hounded by his American cousins for royal positions?
Exactly. I adore Zara & Mike to pieces, but this would open up so many questions, possible issues w/ future titles. I wouldn't be surprised if when Charlotte and Louis are grown up and married that they are advised to take titles for their future children, even if they're lesser ones so there would be less issues. Also, Zara & Mike's feelings need to be in consideration...they may not want to be working royals, and Zara may not want to be a princess.
You made me realize something re: Charlotte. Under the current patent, only direct descendants of the male line (up to grandchildren) of the monarch can get the prince/princess title. I wonder if there will be a change when William becomes king to allow Charlotte’s future children to become prince/princess. This would help with the issues surrounding not enough people to help.
realistically Lady Louise and her brother haven't begun careers and have the lady and Earl titles, they would be the best options of PoW's cousins at this point. Also because they are 20y younger and would be able to help PoW during the years when his own children are too young.
William and his cousins are mostly in their early 40s (except for James and Louise). In the next 5 years, KCIII, QC, and the Gloucesters will all be in their 80s; Princess Anne will be 79, and the Edinburghs will be 65.
Meanwhile, PW's kids will be 16, 14, and 11. That is, indeed, a very slim monarchy.
I’d agree with you if A&L were raised in the UK (or commonwealth) and integrated within the wider royal family with holidays at Balmoral etc.
But as they are totally non royal American kids, I think it’s a very easy thing to refuse with no accusations of racism sticking. Ultimately George will be closer to the Tindall kids and Wolfie and I’m sure his parents will ensure he’s taught good boundaries after their experience with H&M.
I do suspect the Cambridge kids will be encouraged to have 3+ kids themselves tho. No one will want another heir and spare situation.
I think the key word there is "American." The Sussex kids are not being raised with British traditions and culture. Will be pretty difficult to take on royal roles...
This is the best possible thing they could do to revive the public confidence in the monarchy right now, imho. Everyone has a price, and whatever Zara's is, the RF would be most wise to beat it. Mike Tindall too, for that matter. These two exemplify every value that made the Queen so popular--hard work, dedication, loyalty and humility. Zara is an Olympic medalist for goodness' sake--that in itself is quite an amazing story! They appear to very close to William as well, and Zara seems to genuinely love her family. She is without question the best person to join William's future court.
I read a few months ago, no source or link, that Zara is very close to William and always had been. She’s upset what Harry and Meghan Markle have done to the RF and especially William and Catherine so has decided to try and become a working royal to support William as he has no siblings now. It’s going to be years before the Wales children are in a position to help so who else does William have right now? This generation will have to step up because the Kents and Gloucesters are ready to retire.
Zara has too many lucrative financial deals she would have to give up and so much freedom and happiness in her life. She is best where she is, kind of adjacent to the BRF but with her own life and decision-making power. It is better for her kids too
See, I don't believe he is considering this.
Moreover, Zara - and 'Princess Zara' does roll off the tongue quite likely - can work at the coal face without being titled.
I know Anne and Edward didn't want their children to have fancy titles so they can choose their own lives; I've always disagreed with this and never liked that as a reason. That decision makes it seem like they hate their jobs and don't want the next generation to suffer the same burden.
If the monarchy is their history, future, and their identities that need to be preserved, a prince/princess title shouldn't be a burden. Anne and Edward should've been proud of it and happily given these titles to Peter, Zara, James, and Louise.
Besides, just because they have a prince/princess title doesn't mean they'll be working royals. Beatrice and Eugenie aren't.
Having said all this, I don't think Zara will want it. She's happy to live her life and dress up to go to events for fun.
I think the issue with titles is that it's easier to pursue passions and interests that involve financial gain **without** a title, because there is no concern about using royal status to make money. The title kind of locks one into royal life and limits options.
Yet another thing that Meghan does not seem to appreciate or understand. I would not be surprised if William takes away their kids' titles. As Americans, it's not necessary and pretty ridiculous.
technically, as a female Anne's children were not entitled to be Prince/Princess. QEII offered to change that and to give her husband a title, but Anne and her husband declined and their children took Mark Phillips' last name.
As for Edward's children, it was agreed w/QEII when Edward and Sophie married to give them Earl and Countess titles but their children would be Lady/Viscount not Prince/Princess. Some speculate this is b/c of fallout after the recent death of Princess Diana where Diana wasn't allowed the title HRH after the divorce.
No. Zara should keep supporting her family by showing up events like Ascot, or garden party, perhaps taking a meeting as Bea did for William (an Earthshot event?). She can support charities as a private patron. She doesn't have to decide between her 3 kids' needs and an important royal event.
They also make a lot more money with sponsorships than they would get in public funding, and Zara would have to hire an office staff out of those funds if she was a working royal. They would have to give up her (and likely her husband's) sponsorships and end up with way less money.
They'd also have a ton more scrutiny, and they are close enough to William and his family to know that they don't want it for them or their kids.
Omg…While I am on the side of the BRF against the Harkles. IMO, and I’ve said this *years* ago, the King painted himself into a corner with this “slimmed down” monarchy crap. Now they’re screwed with not enough hands/bodies to help and flopped it all on PW’s shoulders. Bring on the Tindalls, Peter Phillips, Lady Louise, the York girls, etc. The balcony scenes are getting boring without the little kids anymore but even the preteens/teenagers would bring a youthful face to the monarchy.
With Princess Catherine, Princess Anne and the King all sidelined with illness and the loss of the Harkles (good riddance), the slimmed down monarchy is turning his reign into a clusterf$&k.
I would add it should be **their** choice whether they would like to step in as working royals.
Unpopular opinion:
Whether they like it or not, the above named Tindalls, Peter, Louise, etc, all have enormous privilege due to the fact they were born into the Royal Family.
It would only be right that they return the privilege by acting for the King. Let's face it; Louise, the York brats, etc, only got where they are by riding royal coattails. Stepping in to represent their family should not be the petulant NO they are presenting (i.e. "Louise got a taste of the Senior Royal life and didn't like it" headline). Zara is pretty and all, but does anyone really think she would have made it to the Olympics, in the most expensive sport on earth, if not for the financial backing and public support of the Royal Family? There are literally hundreds of women who ride and would have killed to be chosen for the Olympics. Even Anne was pushed through.
Don't get me wrong - I like and admire all of them but Anne is delusional if she thinks "she wanted them to have independent lives from the BRF" and her connections, influence and birth don't count.
They should ALL be stepping up and shouldering a fair share of the representation burdens for their King.
/rant over
They also seem very close to William and Catherine and their children are close (especially Charlotte and Mia), so it makes sense they might be called on to do more even if it doesn’t come with a title. The Royals could benefit from more attractive, interesting, young people about!
I don't think she'll agree to do this per the article. She has a good life as it is. I like Zara but never understood why she married Tindall. He leaves me cold.
I am all for Princess Zara. HMTK is more of a feminist than given credit for, if he wants to honor his sister by saying that Anne's daughter should enjoy the rank of a princess born.
I agree, but the monarchy seems to get slimmer every week. We've also had "hints" that the Princess of Wales may never return to a full-time role (due to her cancer), and the Wales children won't be true working royals for over a decade.
And I'm not sure the York sisters will ever have "royal rock star" appeal due to their "frummery."
Nope, I don't see this happening. Zara and Mike have established themselves as non-working members with lucrative outside deals. They're in their forties. Too much water under the bridge. When she was 18, yeah maybe it could've happened. Lady Louise, maybe.
Though Princess Anne chose to let her children live a normal life as possible, they also benefitted hugely by association with being royal blood. Maybe it's time Zara stepped up. It would be great to see her celebrated as a princess.
I think this is a great idea and may already be in the works, hence Zara pulling back from a possible move to Australia. She can be a working royal while Mike does business 😁
To her credit, Hilary Rose basically says “this was reported by another paper, but I don’t think it holds water bc Zara has been pretty clear she doesn’t want a title and likes not being a working royal” even though she loves and supports her family. Yup.
I love that Princess Anne made the choice she did for her children in regards to title and upbringing. That being said if HMTK wants to give her the title and she is on board with it, then I would be all for it. Zara seems to be a wonderfully supportive and lovely person (Mike too) and it would be a nice way for HMTK and POW to show their thanks. But again only if everyone agrees. 💙
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Princess Anne did not want to give her children royal titles because she wanted them to have independent lives from the BRF. The Tindalls would represent the monarchy infinitely better than the Harkles, but it does not seem likely that they would want to become working members of the BRF.
Let’s be honest though: they’d be the most badazz royals to add to the mix.
For sure! Love them! H&M can't ever think to stand in their shadow. Can you picture that? Duke of Pubic Plugs and the Dentured Duchess of Ozempic. Yuck. No contest.
🤣🤣🤣 those names need to be flairs!
I agree!
Not a fan of the Harkles at all but Zara and Mike would if they continued to have commercial tie ups and perform royal duties be half in and half out which is what the Harkles wanted in the first place.
I believe the Tindalls earn far less money that what Madam was aiming for, but you are correct. They would have to step back from sponsorships, etc. If they were willing, I think KCIII could make it worth their while. I understand he has a bit of money saved up :-)
Perhaps if Zara went “working royal” and had to give up her sponsorships, Mike could stay “out” and continue with his sponsorships and business endeavors. He could still escort his wife to big social events, but not on official duties, where Zara could act as a second Princess Anne, assisting her mother. This might be too close to half in half out, but the late Queen did suggest for Meghan to keep working as an actress while Harry was technically a working royal. Zara are Mike are close to William and George, and Zara’s always been loved by her uncle Charles (who first suggested her name be Zara).
OK, didn't think of that. Possibly Zara would do it for her Mom, if she took over some of her Mom's events, that I can see. The financials of her losing income from sponsorships would have to be dealt with...but to take burden from her Mom, that is something I can see Zara doing.
He’s a good enough businessman that he knows he would have to offer comparable compensation if they were to entertain this thought.
Yep. Mike and Zara aren't fame and fortune hunters desperate for status and a billionaire lifestyle. They earn money from things they're passionate about (horses, sport, fitness) and aren't trying to merch, beg for private planes, etc. Good Lord, Meghan was never cut out for royal life.
They would definitely give a jolt of fun and badassery to the monarchy!
I'm sure that has not escaped the Palace! The RF would benefit from Big Tindall Energy!
In that case what's wrong with the Harkles?
Perhaps you're lost?
No
Me thinks you are on the wrong sub.
One, why act like a censor board official? Is the sub about cheering the BRF relentlessly? Two there are clear contradictions between allowing Zara to be half in and half out while denying that to Harry. Three Charles behaves like Bertie Wooster a lot of the time. Edit: regret to see how some people gang up on people with a different perspective. Typical.
No what’s typical is coming to a sub and posting just to cause problems. Besides the fact the King has made no such decision. This is bull just like all the other tabloid crap. No one is getting half in and half out.
No problems were caused. Yes this news is bull but many of you take bull like this very seriously in other contexts. In fact some even create imaginary scenarios of their own. Nothing wrong with that, it's just being creative!
They're unlikable. They've shown their asses. They'll never be allowed back into the fold because they've proven themselves untrustworthy.
Badazz = good. Azz-orifice = bad.
Besides trashing the Monarcy?🤨
The issue was : can Zara perform royal duties while still having commercial contracts. Half in and half out. Logically no since QE didn't permit Harry. She set a precedent. But Charles will use Zara to bring back Harry. Charles doesn't have QE' s spine or principles.
True about Princess Anne but even she has acknowledged that the monarchy is a bit too slim. There will be a time when William needs some support and sadly that could be sooner than any of us imagined. The Edinburghs and the Tindalls will provide William with good support..and possibly the York sisters. Who knows.
The York sisters look at their own interests. Zara is the perfect Royal and in my opinion is the best they have to offer. She has Anne’s attitude and sense of duty, the queens steadfastness and Phillip’s humour. Catherine and William have always shied away from the spotlight and shrunk back to allow the other stars to shine which I feel like is to their detriment sometimes. The queens “never complain never explain” motto was great in 1960s but with social media and roachel it’s a bit outdated. I was pleasantly surprised when it came out Catherine insisted on the “recollections may vary” being included. Zara has always had the freedom to be more brash and you can see she doesn’t hide her distaste especially around roachel. She is Anne and Phillip most improper characteristics and I love that.
If the York sisters came in that would be Andrew in by proxy.
Yes and if there is a conversation on pulling Zara in it could be a part of the discussion of allowing Anne to very gradually begin to cut back on her duties.
So true! Princess Zara would be a natural "heir" to her mother's role. Let's look at some facts: --In January 2025, the average age of working royals (excluding PW) will be 72: KCIII (76), QC (77), PA (74), the Edinburghs (60), and Gloucesters (80 and 79). And KCIII is not well and we don't know to what extent. --Prince William is 43 yrs old and we do not know in what capacity Catherine will return or when. The Prince of Wales **IS** going to need support.
Yes and no. Both of their spouses are very savvy and smart and would never allow the York sisters to be tainted by the scandal their parents seem to attract.
I'm very impressed with Edo in particular.
Agree about the York sisters. It feels like they are more about the "status" versus the role. Of the two, I definitely prefer Bea. Eugenie seems to exude negative energy.
This!!!!!!
Catherine absolutely saved the Monarchy with "recollections may vary." It was perfect absolutely diplomatic, but called Meghan markle a liar right to her face. Her enemies underestimate the Princess of Wales so much. She looks so delicate, but she has a spine of stainless steel. Meghan Markle is out to wipe out Prince William and Prince George. Catherine will wipe Lolo off the map before she will allow that.
I still think Lady Louise is a viable working royal--at least PT--and that could be combined with a career that would not conflict with royal duties, such as professor/teacher. She's apparently close to William, and Lady Louise bridges the age gap between William & when William's kids are old enough to be working royals. When William becomes king, his children probably won't be old enough to take royal duties, and Princess Anne will likely have retired. Louise's parents will probably be the oldest working royals left at that point. Lady Louise could have a career with an English lit degree that would not be a conflict of interest w/official duties. Her brother is another possibility, the option should be open to him if he wants it & if he would like a career that's also not a conflict with being a working royal. With the younger generation who aren't heir, it seems as if a regular career (that does not present a conflict of interest) might be a good balance along with (obviously less) royal duties--that would make life more interesting and keep at least Charlotte and Louis from feeling 'trapped' like Harry--that they can only ever do royal duties or they have to flee. **QEII rejection of half in half out for H and M was based on the way they would be 'earning their own money.' And the conflict with being working royals representing her, the Queen.**
The issue is it can’t appear that an organisation or item has the queens approval. Zara has wonderful endorsement deals but her husband was a successful athlete whose career earned the endorsement. Roachel would get endorsements bc of her relation to the Queen not her own achievements.
Yes. I'd wonder if Zara became a working royal, thus ending her ability for endorsements, would her husband also have to give up his endorsements. M seemingly already had history of trying to get freebie clothes ETA while a royal, so I can see where immediately M in ads or pics of M 'merching' where she got the clothes/jewelry free would be a problem. She was prohibited from that being a working royal, it's known she did not like being prohibited, and QEII rightly suspected that 'making their own money' would mean M would be 'endorsing/merching' 500 products w/in a month. Also, H and M were known to be interested in 'producing,' which is where Prince Edward ran into conflicts of interest and had to quit that career. Realistically, while it's claimed the Palace told M she could continue to act, it was clear to QEII that M was not really gonna be the next Bond Girl making bank. Even with a close relation to the Queen. Even cultivating friendship with George Clooney. ETA so that QEII did not see any acting jobs she'd get as a conflict.
Slim, it may be, but I don't see zara giving up her commercial business. Working royalty limits your options, and zara has the best of both worlds, part of the family, gets invited to the big events but also a private citizen.
See my post above about the "graying" the RF. Our current working royals are all aging. Prince William will need support - esp if Catherine's role is less public facing due to her illness.
They can't have half in/out. It doesn't work, which is why H&M were told no. The York sisters could become working royals. They have the titles and no commercial operations. Lady Louise and James could step up, too. Zara and Peter are a no-go unless they are willing to give up their commercial endeavours.
\*\*the York sisters do have jobs, as could Louise and James, so long as they weren't the type of 'commercial' ventures that would be conflict of interest. Seeing that Lady Louise is studying English lit, a career as a professor, researcher, or teacher would work. Half in/half out didn't work for H and M b/c of the ways they planned 'to earn their own money.' It would't work for Zara with her current sponsorships. It didn't work with Louise and James' parents because TV/PR there was conflict with influence, basically scandals, so they had to quit. Being part time royals works fine if your job doesn't conflict. William was able to be a SAR pilot.
The Coronation photo made it clear. Not one working Royal under 40. The King isn't slimming the Monarchy, he is killing it.
It’s very worrying.
Yes but Princess Anne is not her children. Her children still have minds of their own. Personally I would love it!!
What a delightful proposal! At this point in their lives, they may be ready for the steady income that working for BP would bring. They're both charismatic, fun people and well liked. It would be nice for Mike to receive a title. As an expert horsewoman, she'd have all sorts of opportunities rep'ing the RF. This has always been a huge character flaw concerning the ILBW: She's never had a skill (OK, now, tongue in cheek), nor a field of expertise. She's never been athletic, can't play an instrument, never had any serious academic achievement, never developed a talent - there's never been anything interesting about her; she's flat, one-dimensional, completely self-absorbed - all of which makes for a boring person no one is drawn to. No humor, always chastising people, finding fault, yet pretending she has depth of character by pretend, falsified interests. She's a huge failure as a choice for a life partner for someone who'd been in the public eye since birth. That the Hazbeen was so woefully unprepared to make a grounded, considered decision as consequential for him as this has been speaks volumes about his character. But getting back to the Tindalls: Lightyears ahead of the Hazbeens! They're already well received.
With everything the Harkles have put the RF through, the Tindalls have proven themselves to be wonderfully loyael, talented, personable members of the RF. Zara would do so well with patronages! Plus, with the two of them having not been bound by RF guidelines for so long, their personalities have been able to shine more so than if they were working royals. I think they would make wonderful additions to the working Royals. They bring an element of relaxing fun to the Senior Royals, but not in a petulant obnoxious Harry way.
***"That the Hazbeen was so woefully unprepared to make a grounded, considered decision as consequential for him as this has been speaks volumes about his character."*** Brilliant comment! After being dumped twice, Harry was again looking at what his brother had - gorgeous, kind, educated wife and children - and green with envy. It seems Haz chose Megsy for all the wrong reasons: lust, anger, Mummy issues, and a determination to stick it to the RF - "Look what the Ginger got!" - despite assurances from many (in a position to know) that Meghan is nothing like his Mum and not suitable for the role. He is now destined to remain on the sidelines and chase fame and fortune in the most unfortunate ways. He has lost the respect of a nation, friends, family, the military, etc. All because of a vacuous woman who appears to have used him for her own means.
Can they be working royals work no titles?
I'm sure plenty of charities would appreciate Zara as a patron even if she wasn't officially a royal patron.
Oh boy I can see Megnut jumping up and down shouting SEE! SEE! I told you it could be done! when she reads this comment.
Yeah but it only works when people WANT you as a patron, Megnut. I'll break it down for you... Patron - gives awards and helps raise money and attention Sussex - gives money to take awards and attention.
Sussex + siphons money for expenses like private planes, expensive hotels, caravan of cars, security, and overpriced ill-fitting clothes.
**If she jumps too hard I'm afraid her hair will fall out, the fillers might sag, and her veneers will unbuckle and show the v shaped sawn off tooth underneath!**
Unlike Meghan, the Tindalls would not live in Hollywood for half the year, using their royal status to grift.
work behind the scenes, become a palace or king's background employee, secretary, need professional qualifications. For example, Peter Phillip could easily be in charge of the Royal Foundation because he has a university degree in finance and the fact that his company is collaborating on garden parties from 2020. The Duke of Gloucester uses used his qualifications as an architect to fund organizations that conserve buildings and structures, such as English Heritage. Lady Margarita Armstrong-Jones studied jewelry design and stone engraving in Paris, who knows whether she will be in charge of managing the royal jewelry warehouse in the future or not. James, Earl of Wessex can be in charge of the Duke of Edingburgh or represent the British royal family in the Commonwealth even without holding the titles of Prince and Duke, provided he has the corresponding qualifications in diplomacy or international relations. Modernizing the monarchy means specializing in positions. To ensure royal power, they need to secure official positions in palaces and important institutions, not "royalty". "working member" - representative of the monarchy, appears everywhere. If you are interested in the royal family and palace jobs, you will see that as long as William develops a plan to modernize the monarchy, there will be a large royal force with the right qualities .
> The Duke of Gloucester uses used his qualifications as an architect to fund organizations that conserve buildings and structures, such as English Heritage. Except he doesn't use his money for 'English Heritage', he isn't even on the board. The organisation's first Chairman, Lord Montagu of Beaulieu. Both English Heritage and Historic England are NGOs, and neither have royal patrons. https://www.royal.uk/the-duke-of-gloucester https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/about-us/our-history/ https://historicengland.org.uk/about/who-we-are/commission/
PP is not in charge of the RFofthePAPOW though?
That's right, I mentioned that if PP wants to serve the royal family, he can join as a director related to finance. Today, he has his own business, but his event planning company organizes royal events. I forget the company name but it was first mentioned in 2022 (Platinum Anniversary garden party event).
What's the code? PP, ofthePAPOW?
Peter Phillips, I think.
Thank you.
What's a PAPOW?
Prince and Princess of Wales (is my guess)
Many thanks.
Good question. I’m not sure.
Hasn't been done. Edward VII made exceptions for the daughters of his daughter Louise. Although they were teenager when raised to princess status. Victoria had also made exceptions to the Duke of Fife title that she'd bestowed on Louise's husband. By seniority, a daughter of Louise would inherit the dukedom. Alexandra became Duchess of Fife on the death of her father. Her only son predeceased her and on her death, her sister Maud's only son inherited the dukedom.
The difference between the 2 couples is that Zara and Mike have already had success due to their talent and work ethic. They are loved and would be a great asset to the RF. Now the other 2 have no talent or work ethic, are entitled and expect things handed to them because of their titles. They only want back into the RF because they have been complete failures on their own. On top of that they've bashed the RF in books, interviews and documentaries.... so why would the RF want them back?
The Harkles have talent! They are very talented in whining, complaining, playing the victim, freeloading, bullying, and generally not living by any societal code of conduct or manners. Seriously though- Meghan is not talented in any way. Harry has...his Xbox? The inferiority complex should be huge with the Harkles. While the rest of the RF have earned respect through their work and service to the country, the Harkles demand attention for simply being born and breathing in oxygen other people need.
Meghan could have succeeded as working royal, but it would have meant being happy with royal life (and following protocols and respecting hierarchy), accepting guidance from the Palace, and agreeing to a suitable role. She never intended to do any of that and Harry loved it. He saw her as a ticket out of what he considered drudgery.
I agree this is just fanciful nonsense. Princess Anne's wishes will be respected. Why don't people get that titles aren't thrown around like confetti.
So this story originated in the Mail on Sunday? Then a journalist who has met Zara & Mike writes an article about it suggesting that a half in & half out thing is already in place? Could I possibly be smelling some BS PR from across the pond? A couple who are happily married with 3 children - one of whom was born on the bathroom floor * & earning their own money, who attend royal events, but are also so real & down to earth with Zara in her flip flops and blue toenails. Sorry there’s just something that doesn’t feel right about this article to me. *I’m waiting for TOW to try something similar. “I was just picking the strawberries to make a new batch of jam when suddenly I went into labour and little Monty just came right out there among the strawberries. Of course I was on my own for the whole thing but it was so easy. I hosed him down with the hosepipe, wrapped him up in part of my skirt I tore off, put the placenta on the compost and finished picking the strawberries because I felt it important that he should hit the ground running just like me” 🤪
Placenta jam. Please, don't give her ideas. 😂
Omg, I bow down! 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
It is important to note that Hilary did say the "Princess Zara" idea was reported in the DM!
On the plus side, the UK general public would approve of the Tindalls working for the Crown. Would they? If yes, remuneration might be a problem if they're currently earning in excess of a million pounds per year. Charles has always been close to Zara as has William. Mike is like a brother to William. How I would handle the formal aspects of this hire: Bestow Countess of X on Zara (lifetime title) Bestow a knighthood on Mike. Zara works for Charles (allowance through the Privy Purse) and can begin taking over some of her mother's work. Mike works for William (salary from the Duchy of Cornwall). If all goes well, Zara will work for King William. Willam can give Mike a title, but he continues to work for the PoW (George is already fond of Mike and by then Mike will be an experienced hand.) If needed Willam or George can bring one of Tindalls into the fold (Mia has the edge on that at this point.)
No chance, of being a working Royal. Zara would need to give up all her external money making deals and endorsements, otherwise shed have the exact deal H&M wanted as a part-time royal. Never going to happen. This doesn't mean Charles couldn't give them a title but I doubt it will happen.
Mike and Zara love William and PW needs help. Every other working royal will be in the 60-80 yr old range in 2025 and we don't know the prognosis for the King or Catherine. By the time PW is 50, the BP balcony could be quite sparse.
The British people love both Zara and Mike so I think even at their current status they would be great at representing the monarchy without having titles. If they got a half in half out status that would give the brats H&M reason to claim that they are being treated differently than others and will out the R card to hurt the RF. They could help out Princess Anne with her busy schedule to get their feet wet. Everyone was happy to see them at the garden party. Maybe Zara could accompany her mother on few visits and see how she is received by the public especially now with Anne recovering from her injury. Every action from the RF gets a reaction from the Hazbeen’s like Fergie joining the family at Christmas.
No. She and Mike will support at events like Ascot , Christmas concerts, garden parties attend sporting events in a visible capacity and they might take on some charity patronages in a private capacity etc but they have their own commercial interests that they would have to give up. I thought it was interesting that Lady Louise was featured at ttc. Not really noticed because of PoW appearance but she participated in the carriage ride and was on the balcony... she's not a working royal and she is not a minor (the previous criteria)so why was she there? If there is anyone they might ask to join the working Royals my money would be on her.
I thought this too. They are letting her finish her studies and gearing up to having her have a larger role in the royal family. She seems like a lovely young woman with a good head on her shoulders and has an excellent work ethic. I think she'll be an asset to the inner circle of working royals. Zara would be wonderful too but she's a 40 something woman with children and a business acumen that she's spent the last 20 years building. She will not want to give that up whereas Lady Louise is still young and hasn't yet started making a completely self sufficient, independent life yet. She hasn't got anything yet to give up like Zara so she would be a practical choice to invite to be a full time working royal until PPOW children can take on the roles.
It's deeply unfair for the author of that article to talk about Beatrice as someone who "refers to herself as 'princess' at every opportunity". She just flew freaking EASYJET to a speaking engagement, where her biography only called her "Beatrice York". Why do these royal writers always have to find a villain in their piece?
I have worked with the princess and only ever called her by her first name. She never once mentioned princess as she was aware we knew she was. There are always conflicting stories of their behaviour but thats my experience. She can work with us anytime. Very pleasant.
Beatrice seems like a valuable addition to the RF. Eugenie may be lovely in person, but my *perception* is that she has far less charisma. As a mental health professional, I have wondered if she has a mental health diagnosis (i.e. depression) or childhood trauma related to her scoliosis.
And anyway, they ARE princesses. Meghan goes around being "the duchess" everywhere and she wasn't born into it.
She has to beat and bludgeon people into calling her “duchess”. She’s a joke, she knows it, everyone knows it.
It's all about power and status with Meghan Markle. Despite her insistence on "linked not ranked" and "equality" she seems to love throwing her title around with an accompanying list of demands (i.e. "do not make eye contact with the Duchess", etc.). Not sure if it's actually true but it sounds believable.
....not to mention the two of them have cast a huge shadow over the lovely county and people of Sussex....
I remember reading something about the front row of a fashion show where one of the young European royals elegantly introduced herself as ‘princess xyz’ while Eugenie kind of plunked herself down and said ‘Hi, I’m Euge.’ The writer was clearly charmed.
I think zara and Mike support william when it counts. They make the rf look good even without their titles. Probably lady louise and beatrice have a chance. They will figure it out. No one bashed their family not even andrew. Lesson harry didn't learn. Oh well
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I think the Ingriftus Games Foundation runs the games and the BRF has no say in who their patron is. I could be wrong though.
You're correct. It's a private charity and has never even been a royal patronage.
So nothing is stopping the foundation from making a.......patron change. lol. Especially since the current patron is criminally involved in destroying court evidence. Oh, what a tangled web he weaved when first he practiced to to deceive! (Wait for it, folks.)
Nothing but stubbornness, I think. Surely they've realized Mrs. Harkle is ruining their brand with her questionable fashawn.
Criminally involved and becoming less popular by the minute.
Is that from Macbeth? Sorry I’m not too up on my Shakespeare unfortunately lol. Very fitting if so! Well, very fitting either way actually 😂
I think it was Sir Walter Scott from his poem "Marmion"....
yep. After Megxit the charities could choose if they wanted a new royal patron or if they wanted to stay with Harry and Meghan Markle. Most chose a new royal patron, but a few - Ingriftus, One Young World, Scotty´s little soldiers - chose the Grifters.
Ingriftus and One young World are plagued with problems behind the scenes but Scotty's little soldier who ever runs that charity. I want to speak with them because they were DUMB, they should've been fired
And Well Child and Mayhew...I wonder how much their "patrons" are helping them raise money and their profiles?
I think it's clear with these organisations that H and M could continue as private patrons if the orgs agreed (and really it's hard to turn down a famous person) BUT that they would NOT be royal patrons as those were returned to QEII as were Andrew's....at least by the time the trial year ended in 2021.
But H still has 2-3 patronages (Well Child, Scotty’s) and Meghan still has Mayhew.
Again, one young world was never a royal patronage, nor was IG. IDK about Scotty's. OYW and IG were private patronages.
If they can change the patron, why haven't they? I'm curious to know why they keep Harry with all the negative press and Meghan's demands.
True, but if the BRF provides no support for Ingriftus it will eventually have an impact. Also, there is nothing stopping someone else in the UK from launching a UK-based organization that is similar to IG.
I think the BRF won't go near Invictus again. It doesn't seem to be on the up and up if athletes have to bear all of their own costs to compete/attend and patrons/board members are wildly charging expenses. It's a dead horse still being flogged I think.
It's gone past being flogged it's in a can of pet food. Lovely idea but a complete waste of money. It would be much better to just give funding directly to injured vets and their families to help them rebuild their lives or to local groups to improve sports facilities/access for all disabled people.
But then Madam wouldn't being able to put on a fashion show and get days of media attention.
yep, agree. Invictus is dodgy, unable to attract private sponsors and relying on public funding. It is also 6 times as expensive per participant as the Paraolympics. Their financials are not transparent.
Where can I find out more about this? I tried googling but I couldn’t find much, even when I added “Reddit” to my search a lot of the results were from that other sub-the H&H Netflix show sub-and seemed to be mostly asskissery, and I didn’t even bother to read through the puff pieces. Where can I find the REAL dirt?
try looking in this sub - it was discussed a lot after the Dusseldorf IG a year ago. There was a sinner who had the costs of the Paraolympics and said IG was 6-8 times as expensive per participant. But there was also a lot of info on the organisation, donors etc.
Completely agree
The IG Foundation would make that decision, right? I can’t see it happening but it would be glorious!
THAT would be H's just desserts. Truly.
They can't. Ig is not a royal patronage. I think Zara and Mike are great I wouldn't wish invictus on them it's a completely tarnished entity now.
>Personal opinion: If Harry accepts the Pat Tillman award, the following day the BRF announces Mike and Zara Tindall are now the official patrons of Invictus Games. O.M.G. if that happened I would dance in the streets all day long!
Certainly ALL of UK and the Commonweath. LOL
Is that Florence Henderson?
Actually, it was Betty White doing her swing dance during an episode of the Golden Girls 
That's it, LOL!!!!
I'll dance with Snoopy!!!
<"the following day the BRF announces Mike and Zara Tindall are now the official patrons of Invictus Games."> Oh, don't tease, Mob\_Deeb!!
This would be amazing
They are adults now Zara and Peter and they love their uncle Charles and if he needs them I would bet we would see them both with Mike at Zaras side shaking hands and people curtseying to Princess Zara......it definitely has a ring to it!!
And unlike Meghan Markle, Princess Zara is a blood princess not an aging D-list cable actress.
Perhaps Zara would agree to be Princess at least until the Wales children are active working royals? She could then return to private life if she chose, thus serving the monarchy during its time of need.
Yes! Yes! Yes! If Zara and Mike could step up until the Wales children were old enough to carry the weight, it would be the perfect solution.
I'm thinking wayyy ahead, here. One other reason to make Zara a working Royal Princess, is that 20-30 years from now, some of her own children might be needed as working (or at least participating) royals, in some fashion. Nobody knows what the future of the Monarchy will be. When George is King, he might need some cousins to represent him, the way QE-II's cousins have. Her children (as well as Beatrice's and Eugenie's, perhaps Peter's) will learn about being a working royal by observing Zara.
<"Her children (as well as Beatrice's and Eugenie's,"> Well, we've only ever seen the back of August's head too.
Wait?! Is that sarcasm for the Harkles invisible kids or is it really a question? Also if it's true, we already see August's face during the Jubilee celebration just search it to google and you would see 1 picture of it
No, no sarcastic intent. All the photos I've seen are side on when he was burying his head into Eugenie and he's been walking ahead of the camera. The Markles aren't in the discussion. I can't find that Jubilee photo. Do you have access and a link?
There's a picture here https://media.tatler.com/photos/63cfb9778bbeea04672c4aae/master/w_1600,c_limit/1401290609 It's from this article - archived - https://archive.ph/H39Os
Got it, thank you.
:)
I’m thinking the same thing. The BRF is shrinking and they will need all the kids to be involved.
Good point. The Wales' children only first cousins are Archy and Lillibucks and I doubt they even know each other.
I still think Lady Louise is their best option.
Yes. If she wants to do it.
I think she doesn't and i totally understand but we can only dream 😂
I wouldn't want to either if I were her I just thought it was strange that she was in the carriage procession when she didn't need to be and wondered if it might indicate that she could be given a role in future. Probably not but she seems like a lovely girl.
Richard Eden said in his newsletter that William is going to follow the Continental European model and just have a core central royal family, so I doubt King Charles will be making Zara a princess. Rebecca English has also said there are things the royals don’t do because the Sussexes aren’t allowed to eg, the York princesses doing royal engagements because they have jobs. however zara, Beatrice and Eugenie have been very visible at the more « sociable » royal engagements such as the garden parties and Ascot in the absence of Catherine, I like this and I’m sure it will continue
three things: how would Hilary Rose know? Zara and Mike earn money through many paid sponsorships which is not permitted for Royals. Princess Anne declined titles for her children.
Not just the fact that Anne turned the titles down when they were children, but as a grandchild of the reigning monarch she could have chosen to start going by Princess at any point between her 18th birthday and the Queen’s death and she didn’t.
I don’t get the impression that she wants to be a Princess. Could she still make royal visits without a title or funding? I could see it happening on a volunteer basis.
That is what I have been wondering. Thanks for asking. I hope someone knows the answer.
She could not have the sponsorships if she was representing the King. I believe that non-working BRF members might be allowed to 'accompany' a working royal on a tour 'by invitation of' the royal. I think that's been done w/one of the non-working family members at least once. I could see one of the york sisters or lady louise doing this (on a college break), for example going with Charles/Camilla on the Australia visit as he's unwell. I just think Zara has too many sponsorships to be able to do a tour or major event. She might be able to present an award on behalf of her mother at one of Anne's less-known patronages, say if Anne's concussion recovery goes on for an extended time, because I'd guess w/Anne's # of engagements some of them can't be rescheduled if Anne has to be off too much longer. It just might not be worth it as the critics will say 'why is she allowed w/all the commercial sponsorships when H and M weren't'
You never know, Zara may be more willing now than she was years ago, and I think that what Mr and Mrs Meghan Markle think about it becomes less and less important + Harry Markle and The Neverending Legal Problems make it more and more difficult for the BRF to have any connection with him at all.
If Zara is made a working royal, she might have to give up her sponsorships since there is a potential conflict of interest. This could lead to a temporary drop in income depending on how lucrative her sponsorships are. She has to consider whether this is in her interests on the whole - even if the King wants it, she's not obliged to agree.
How does one get made a Duke? Didn’t kings used to just hand them out? No reason he couldn’t make Zara a princess and her husband a Duke?
I think Earl or Baronet would be more appropriate. However, we’d probably just have Princess Zara because both Eugenie and Bea are princesses married to regular guys.
If anyone knows how to burn a royal, its the ROYALS. H&M are in the hot seat now.
Except they’re having a bit of trouble dislodging Andrew.
Andrew may be worried about what's buried in the backyard. Hell no, he won't go. /snark
That man is velcroed on to that property.
The King can make anyone a prince or princess by letters patent. And technically could make someone a duke - recreate an extinct dukedom as for the Duke of Cambridge and Duke of Sussex - but that is not done very often these days.
As much as I like Zara and Mike, and I think Beatrice is an asset, I’m not sure I like the precedent of William plucking from his cousins and assigning them as working royals. Wouldn’t that set up Prince George to later be hounded by his American cousins for royal positions?
Exactly. I adore Zara & Mike to pieces, but this would open up so many questions, possible issues w/ future titles. I wouldn't be surprised if when Charlotte and Louis are grown up and married that they are advised to take titles for their future children, even if they're lesser ones so there would be less issues. Also, Zara & Mike's feelings need to be in consideration...they may not want to be working royals, and Zara may not want to be a princess.
You made me realize something re: Charlotte. Under the current patent, only direct descendants of the male line (up to grandchildren) of the monarch can get the prince/princess title. I wonder if there will be a change when William becomes king to allow Charlotte’s future children to become prince/princess. This would help with the issues surrounding not enough people to help.
realistically Lady Louise and her brother haven't begun careers and have the lady and Earl titles, they would be the best options of PoW's cousins at this point. Also because they are 20y younger and would be able to help PoW during the years when his own children are too young.
William and his cousins are mostly in their early 40s (except for James and Louise). In the next 5 years, KCIII, QC, and the Gloucesters will all be in their 80s; Princess Anne will be 79, and the Edinburghs will be 65. Meanwhile, PW's kids will be 16, 14, and 11. That is, indeed, a very slim monarchy.
I’d agree with you if A&L were raised in the UK (or commonwealth) and integrated within the wider royal family with holidays at Balmoral etc. But as they are totally non royal American kids, I think it’s a very easy thing to refuse with no accusations of racism sticking. Ultimately George will be closer to the Tindall kids and Wolfie and I’m sure his parents will ensure he’s taught good boundaries after their experience with H&M. I do suspect the Cambridge kids will be encouraged to have 3+ kids themselves tho. No one will want another heir and spare situation.
I think the key word there is "American." The Sussex kids are not being raised with British traditions and culture. Will be pretty difficult to take on royal roles...
Love the idea, but doubt it would happen.
They're not giving up their money and independence. They've got the best of both worlds.
This is the best possible thing they could do to revive the public confidence in the monarchy right now, imho. Everyone has a price, and whatever Zara's is, the RF would be most wise to beat it. Mike Tindall too, for that matter. These two exemplify every value that made the Queen so popular--hard work, dedication, loyalty and humility. Zara is an Olympic medalist for goodness' sake--that in itself is quite an amazing story! They appear to very close to William as well, and Zara seems to genuinely love her family. She is without question the best person to join William's future court.
I read a few months ago, no source or link, that Zara is very close to William and always had been. She’s upset what Harry and Meghan Markle have done to the RF and especially William and Catherine so has decided to try and become a working royal to support William as he has no siblings now. It’s going to be years before the Wales children are in a position to help so who else does William have right now? This generation will have to step up because the Kents and Gloucesters are ready to retire.
Zara has too many lucrative financial deals she would have to give up and so much freedom and happiness in her life. She is best where she is, kind of adjacent to the BRF but with her own life and decision-making power. It is better for her kids too
See, I don't believe he is considering this. Moreover, Zara - and 'Princess Zara' does roll off the tongue quite likely - can work at the coal face without being titled.
Incredible!
I know Anne and Edward didn't want their children to have fancy titles so they can choose their own lives; I've always disagreed with this and never liked that as a reason. That decision makes it seem like they hate their jobs and don't want the next generation to suffer the same burden. If the monarchy is their history, future, and their identities that need to be preserved, a prince/princess title shouldn't be a burden. Anne and Edward should've been proud of it and happily given these titles to Peter, Zara, James, and Louise. Besides, just because they have a prince/princess title doesn't mean they'll be working royals. Beatrice and Eugenie aren't. Having said all this, I don't think Zara will want it. She's happy to live her life and dress up to go to events for fun.
I think the issue with titles is that it's easier to pursue passions and interests that involve financial gain **without** a title, because there is no concern about using royal status to make money. The title kind of locks one into royal life and limits options. Yet another thing that Meghan does not seem to appreciate or understand. I would not be surprised if William takes away their kids' titles. As Americans, it's not necessary and pretty ridiculous.
technically, as a female Anne's children were not entitled to be Prince/Princess. QEII offered to change that and to give her husband a title, but Anne and her husband declined and their children took Mark Phillips' last name. As for Edward's children, it was agreed w/QEII when Edward and Sophie married to give them Earl and Countess titles but their children would be Lady/Viscount not Prince/Princess. Some speculate this is b/c of fallout after the recent death of Princess Diana where Diana wasn't allowed the title HRH after the divorce.
No. Zara should keep supporting her family by showing up events like Ascot, or garden party, perhaps taking a meeting as Bea did for William (an Earthshot event?). She can support charities as a private patron. She doesn't have to decide between her 3 kids' needs and an important royal event. They also make a lot more money with sponsorships than they would get in public funding, and Zara would have to hire an office staff out of those funds if she was a working royal. They would have to give up her (and likely her husband's) sponsorships and end up with way less money. They'd also have a ton more scrutiny, and they are close enough to William and his family to know that they don't want it for them or their kids.
Omg…While I am on the side of the BRF against the Harkles. IMO, and I’ve said this *years* ago, the King painted himself into a corner with this “slimmed down” monarchy crap. Now they’re screwed with not enough hands/bodies to help and flopped it all on PW’s shoulders. Bring on the Tindalls, Peter Phillips, Lady Louise, the York girls, etc. The balcony scenes are getting boring without the little kids anymore but even the preteens/teenagers would bring a youthful face to the monarchy. With Princess Catherine, Princess Anne and the King all sidelined with illness and the loss of the Harkles (good riddance), the slimmed down monarchy is turning his reign into a clusterf$&k. I would add it should be **their** choice whether they would like to step in as working royals.
Unpopular opinion: Whether they like it or not, the above named Tindalls, Peter, Louise, etc, all have enormous privilege due to the fact they were born into the Royal Family. It would only be right that they return the privilege by acting for the King. Let's face it; Louise, the York brats, etc, only got where they are by riding royal coattails. Stepping in to represent their family should not be the petulant NO they are presenting (i.e. "Louise got a taste of the Senior Royal life and didn't like it" headline). Zara is pretty and all, but does anyone really think she would have made it to the Olympics, in the most expensive sport on earth, if not for the financial backing and public support of the Royal Family? There are literally hundreds of women who ride and would have killed to be chosen for the Olympics. Even Anne was pushed through. Don't get me wrong - I like and admire all of them but Anne is delusional if she thinks "she wanted them to have independent lives from the BRF" and her connections, influence and birth don't count. They should ALL be stepping up and shouldering a fair share of the representation burdens for their King. /rant over
Maybe she’d go full time? I love the idea of PZ! She’s wonderful!
Earl and Countess of Sussex would be great!
True! And Meghan Markle would still have to curtsy to Zara as a blood princess!
Sarah and Mike would make such a great addition as working royals. They are well liked, hard working and I love their style. I hope that could happen.
They also seem very close to William and Catherine and their children are close (especially Charlotte and Mia), so it makes sense they might be called on to do more even if it doesn’t come with a title. The Royals could benefit from more attractive, interesting, young people about!
Yes!! I agree, this could be very positive, specially now.
I don't think she'll agree to do this per the article. She has a good life as it is. I like Zara but never understood why she married Tindall. He leaves me cold.
I am all for Princess Zara. HMTK is more of a feminist than given credit for, if he wants to honor his sister by saying that Anne's daughter should enjoy the rank of a princess born.
It wouldn't if Zara only worked for the firm. I love this idea, Zara is SO beloved.
I think Zara would be perfect, but the question is if she wants this role?
I agree, but the monarchy seems to get slimmer every week. We've also had "hints" that the Princess of Wales may never return to a full-time role (due to her cancer), and the Wales children won't be true working royals for over a decade. And I'm not sure the York sisters will ever have "royal rock star" appeal due to their "frummery."
Nope, I don't see this happening. Zara and Mike have established themselves as non-working members with lucrative outside deals. They're in their forties. Too much water under the bridge. When she was 18, yeah maybe it could've happened. Lady Louise, maybe.
I think it’s a great idea for Zara to be one of the working royals on the front line. I’d rather see her there than Andrew’s daughters or the Harkles.
Though Princess Anne chose to let her children live a normal life as possible, they also benefitted hugely by association with being royal blood. Maybe it's time Zara stepped up. It would be great to see her celebrated as a princess.
I think this is a great idea and may already be in the works, hence Zara pulling back from a possible move to Australia. She can be a working royal while Mike does business 😁
To her credit, Hilary Rose basically says “this was reported by another paper, but I don’t think it holds water bc Zara has been pretty clear she doesn’t want a title and likes not being a working royal” even though she loves and supports her family. Yup.
I love that Princess Anne made the choice she did for her children in regards to title and upbringing. That being said if HMTK wants to give her the title and she is on board with it, then I would be all for it. Zara seems to be a wonderfully supportive and lovely person (Mike too) and it would be a nice way for HMTK and POW to show their thanks. But again only if everyone agrees. 💙
It's a terrible idea and so outdated. But then Charles is very old what can you expect? She can't work without being a princess?