Nobody tells people who are beginners — and I really wish somebody had told this to me — is that all of us who do creative work … we get into it because we have good taste. But it’s like there’s a gap, that for the first couple years that you’re making stuff, what you’re making isn’t so good, OK? It’s not that great. It’s really not that great. It’s trying to be good, it has ambition to be good, but it’s not quite that good. But your taste — the thing that got you into the game — your taste is still killer, and your taste is good enough that you can tell that what you’re making is kind of a disappointment to you, you know what I mean?
A lot of people never get past that phase. A lot of people at that point, they quit. And the thing I would just like say to you with all my heart is that most everybody I know who does interesting creative work, they went through a phase of years where they had really good taste and they could tell what they were making wasn’t as good as they wanted it to be — they knew it fell short, it didn’t have the special thing that we wanted it to have.
And the thing I would say to you is everybody goes through that. And for you to go through it, if you’re going through it right now, if you’re just getting out of that phase — you gotta know it’s totally normal.
And the most important possible thing you can do is do a lot of work — do a huge volume of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week, or every month, you know you’re going to finish one story. Because it’s only by actually going through a volume of work that you are actually going to catch up and close that gap. And the work you’re making will be as good as your ambitions. It takes a while, it’s gonna take you a while — it’s normal to take a while. And you just have to fight your way through that, okay?
\- Ira Glass
I 100% that it’s very important as a writer to read just as much too. For learning of course and also….. That’s when you come across all the actually “horrible” scripts then you’ll be like “holy shit, THIS got made!? Ok, yeah, I got this”
The job of a writer is to write bad cliche work and then rewrite it over and over again until it’s uniquely yours. Just keep pushing each character, each beat, each sentence.
This video inspired me to restart my journey 5-6 years ago and I had forgotten about it, now the video again emerged (your comment) when I needed it a lot. Thank you so much.
Edit: I even found the actual video I had seen 5 years back, Haha. Here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91FQKciKfHI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91FQKciKfHI) (remember it because of horrible kinetic typography).
For dialogue at least, make sure when you go over your script and recognise a cliche you alter the line to the point where it's unrecognisable as a cliche. You quickly discover there are so many ways characters can say the same thing. Make them convey the same point, but alter the dialogue to a point where the cliche is not noticeable, even if what they're saying is in essence the same.
Not sure if that made any form of sense but I always make sure to check and check twice more for cliches, especially in my dialogue
I think he means talking about things pertaining to the point of whatever dialogue is going on, and not rushing to the point, allowing your characters to say more, and show more personality.
Meet other writers. See what they're doing. Take a class. Learn the basics if you haven't already. And read a LOT of scripts. See what you like about them to get a feel for your style. And hey, progress is progress.
There’s nothing wrong with knowing you may not be a great writer. It could be liberating if you can detach yourself from The success/failure desire trap that many creatives find themselves in. Loving something for its own sake is the best way to move forward. Keep progressing, keep writing but maybe shift from dreaming about success to accepting that you’re a writer who simply enjoys creating.
The first thing any creative person worth their salt realizes is that their own stuff is not as good as it could be. Sucking at something is the first step toward being kinda good at something.
In your head they are good because you have taste. On paper they are no good because you are inexperienced. It’s great that you have it on paper, because now you can use your taste to completely refine what you’ve made, and make it better.
Something I’ve always wanted to do is write every cliche I could find and put just the most absolutely twisted spin on it and write a story around it. I feel like that might be something you could try.
Keep things fun, and when cliches come, you’re ready for them.
You need to live life. You're not a bad writer, you just haven't got anything real to write about. Go summit a mountain, go have a fight somewhere. Get angry, get sad, get excited. Go swimming in deep deep ocean, camp in the wild. Go travelling. Talk with young people and old people.
Ain't this the truth. You look at the book Catcher in the Rye and think man that's a book about a bitchy guy dicking around town. This must have been written by some shut-in simpleton? Then look at the actual life lived by the writer JD Salinger who made it. Utah Beach on D-Day, saw friends blown up, interrogated prisoners of war, married a Nazi, hung out with Hemingway. The life it took to make that.
as someone who loves to watch cliche romcoms and read them even More, i wouldn’t let that stop you. i genuinely think it’s the effort and care people put into their writing at times, versus the product itself. so much has already been done; my father is hypercritical of movies, but he watches every single Christmas Hallmark movie that releases (even the ones in July) because they are his true guilty pleasure, and he feels as strongly about them as he does about the (objectively) better written, major motion pictures he also enjoys.
this is also why cowriters and editors are an amazing asset ;) don’t let it stop you from making stories!
Something I’m realizing is you need to become a bad writer before you can be a good writer. You can’t just skip right to being good.
And besides, writing is a great hobby, it’s good to use your brain.
Realizing you're a bad writer is the first step to becoming a good writer. Because bad writers who think they are great are 95% of writers out there.
You're in the 5%. You're doing great. Keep writing.
You’re in what Ira Glass calls the Taste Gap. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad writer, it just means you know what good writing is and you know you aren’t there yet. Keep going. Lots of good advice on this thread.
You’re a bad writer or your written works are bad? Because almost no one creates a first draft that is good. Many in fact, race to having a bad but completed script, and then in the process of rewriting it can become a masterpiece.
Do other people read your writing? Do they give you that note?
It's possible it isn't actually as bad as you think. Or it is, and more practice will make you better. But don't operate in a vacuum. Get feedback.
I've pitched ideas in rooms that I thought were universally obvious or cliche, but the room thought were great and unique. And some of the ideas I thought were my most brilliant and unique were seen as obvious and unimpressive.
How is it...
I'm 100% goign through this exact same epiphany right now. Pretty much word for word...
I'm usually wrtiign Sci-fi and fantasy, and have a number of scripts and stories I thought were going quite well.
So I thought I'd challenge myself. Instead of writing action explody shooty punchy fun time stories, I would try somethign more cerebral and thoughtful, set in modern day, following a reporter...
And I've tried telling three different stories with her, and all three just fall apart. I am completely incapable of writing anything that isnt a huge explode-y blockbuster or wild sci-fi fantasy.
And nobody hires a nobody like me for those kinds of jobs...
Which leaves me wondering... am I just a bad writer?
I feel there’s a middle ground between those two polar opposites, maybe there’s a ~~human~~ cerebral story lurking on the surface of your planets for example?
I'd like to think my sci-fi stories are not completely shallow...
But there is still a lot of shooty shooty bang bang.
Script:
[https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vk1ucmi2zqlchg6b6lfqh/teleplay-Adrift-Homeless-TV-Pilot-2023.pdf?rlkey=6uvq4t6yiaqyahah3xa18xgh5&dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vk1ucmi2zqlchg6b6lfqh/teleplay-Adrift-Homeless-TV-Pilot-2023.pdf?rlkey=6uvq4t6yiaqyahah3xa18xgh5&dl=0)
Novel:
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrgraimrj9u7egv/%5BNOVEL%5D%20%5BSciFi%5DAdrift%20Homeless%5BSeason%201%5D%202016.pdf?dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrgraimrj9u7egv/%5BNOVEL%5D%20%5BSciFi%5DAdrift%20Homeless%5BSeason%201%5D%202016.pdf?dl=0)
It's probably my best work.
Made me think I could do anything!
Oh thanks! I really appreciate that.
As I said... Sci-fi is what I'm good at. Fantasy too
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpgfhi9djw64xkg/%5Bteleplay%5DThe%20Aldonn%20Chronicles%201x01%20%5BTv%20Pilot%5D.pdf?dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpgfhi9djw64xkg/%5Bteleplay%5DThe%20Aldonn%20Chronicles%201x01%20%5BTv%20Pilot%5D.pdf?dl=0)
Those are my best works...
But then I thought I'd challenge myself, and tried writing about a journalist named Isabol Tseung of Voice News.
And every time the plot just falls apart in Act 3 xD I've written one novel, and then wrote two sequels as screenplays, each story being like a james bond stand alone thing but with a focus on a reporter instead of a spy.
But it was a bad idea, I should have stuck with what I was good at xD
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbbfi40q96uij2l/%5BScreenplay%5DIsabol%20Tseung%20Voice%20News%5BFilm%5D.pdf?dl=0
[https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t7us2vnpa8zy2veck2efi/Isabol-Tseung-3.pdf?rlkey=pk6rjempjfg2bs11d5omx5lj1&dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t7us2vnpa8zy2veck2efi/Isabol-Tseung-3.pdf?rlkey=pk6rjempjfg2bs11d5omx5lj1&dl=0)
The last one is the one I'm working on now, and Act 3 has just completely fallen apart. I'm forcing myself through it, but it's going to suck.
Also I never get feedback, so like if you have any for Adrift Homeless, I'd love to hear it!
People usually tell me I suck without ever even touching my stuff!
And I was on twitter today begging Patty Jenkins to let me help her write her rogue squadron movie.
Of course no one would ever let me touch somethign like star wars.
I'm a hack
\*cries\*
I consider myself a bad writer as well. You just gotta identify what it is you’re good at and what you struggle with. For me I’m pretty good with symbolism, theme integration, worldbuilding, and building a consistent and strong plot. However I cannot for the life of me write good dialogue.
I always felt the most of marvel movies are the same story the the same character just in different clothes. So beat yourself up for the right reason and then get back at, your stories are your and you now why you thought of them in first place.
>No, I won't quit.
This is what counts. I have shit I wrote 5/4 years ago and reading it makes me want to vomit it's so bad. Cheezy ass dialouge, horrible prose, absolutely cringeworthy characters and tons of cliches.
I don't know if I'm "good" yet, but maaaan I've impoved. Reading my stuff now is much more bareable, and I've even gotten quite a lot of praise on some stuff.
I just recommend that you keep writing. Everytime you write something bad, it's a little less bad than the last thing you wrote. Before you know it, you start liking your own writing, and then hopefully other people start liking it. Just keep at it. You can do it!
Seems like you may need to readdress your process. Maybe spend more time flushing out your ideas before putting pen to paper, or bits to the screen. Just because it sounds good in your head, does not.mean that it is a good story, or maybe it is, but just not enough for a full length film.
Try looking at some videos to see how others plan their work. See if any of them may help. Try a couple and see if it helps.
Also, maybe try writing shorts, like a 20 min episode for twilight zone, or similar type of show.
First you have to know what you are a bad writer, and if I had to guess, not knowing you at all, is that all the way that the way that you have been taught is not the best way you should learn. I grew up on the Hero's Journey, and love it still, but I ended up creating a new structure based not on patterns, but more concrete psychology. I can give you the two part basics really quick.
First, each moment in narrative should have an emotion, behavior, belief, and value. So for example, if a character is pushed down, they may be upset, run away, believe they are worthless, and value self preservation. Or they may be mad, push back, believe they are weak, and value power. Now there are about 7 of these in a scene: the first defines the emotions, behaviors, beliefs, and values. The second shows what they want, while the third shows them going for it. The next shows what is in their way, and the fifth shows them getting what they want. The last two shows how it change them, and how their change affects others.
Now that is per scene, and there are 5 scenes in a segment. There is a need, a connection, a resonance, a conflict, and a value.
1. A character needs to feel cared for, someone comes along to care for them, giving them hope for the future.
2. That character needs to feel safe, develops a way to be safe, and has the willpower to push through difficult challenges.
3. They then need to find where they belong. They explore the world and through that, they develop a purpose.
4. They then need to have esteem. They take on challenges and develop confidence.
5. They need to understand themselves, and through that they develop an identity and become loyal to themselves.
6. They need to see beauty, and through connections they develop the ability to love.
7. They need to find their place in the world, so they are generous and learn to care for others.
This structure should help you organize your stories into something more cohesive, and beyond that be able to pull from your life experiences to help you.
Some advice that helped me was to stop trying to write and start trying to find your "voice"
To put it simply, why do you want to write? Is it to make money? Tell stories? Create badass action scenes? Scare the shit out of people? What?
If it's money you're after, I'll just say you're wasting everyones time. Including your own. I'm not saying this job doesn't have the chance of a big payoff, but you're gonna need something else to keep you motivated during the broke years.
Once you find your voice, tell a story that means something to you personally. It doesn't have to be a self insert but something you connect with. Lastly, if you're new. Try writing short stories and "shorts" just so you get in the rhythm of FINISHING STORIES. Doesn't matter if it's utter shit. Just finish. You can always go back and edit.
Hey, friend \~ 30-year book/content editor here (different field, I know—I lurk because I'm also a frustrated and aspiring screenwriter), with a couple notes I give my clients that I find is a more helpful way to frame writing evaluation:
* Start from how you want your audience to feel when they read it and work back from there.
* Think of work as a continuum from "weak" to "strong" rather than the binary "good" or bad," because it's more about the right fit than objective "quality."
* Decision-makers are often looking to fill a specific niche. LOOK AT THE FUCKING SCHLOCK THAT GETS MADE! HOW?! The most important thing was that the work was the right fit, not that it was "good."
I find this distracts the little voice doubt long enough to get some real work done.
The other best way is to find two or three readers whose tastes you admire. A writing group can be great if it’s both supportive and honest (read: its members are talented and not too insecure). Take all feedback with a grain of salt, but if you get the same note from a few people, pay attention.
Good luck on your quest!
I've discovered that input matters. If you watch more films outside of the genres or narrative structures/conventions of what you normally watch, it starts affecting your work even if you don't really like it. In college I watched stuff like Chantal Akerman and Kelly Reichardt and it got me to think about things in a different way. Watch some weird stuff and see if that helps. Stretch your brain man!!!
You might never be good. Just make sure you have no regrets later on. You want a retirement and you want healthcare when you’re older. If you can keep writing while making sure you’re not becoming a loser then keep writing and don’t worry about. Most people are horrible musicians but that doesn’t stop people from enjoying guitar alone in their room.
Remember, this isn’t the most important thing in life. It’s really not important at all.
What draft are you stopping at? The first couple to few might be really bad, but a lot of writing is rewriting. No movie script ever is amazing or many times even good on the first draft. I’d recommend going through each scene and asking what is your character trying to achieve and how is this scene driving the story forward
Also, listen to this whole podcast episode. Then listen again. Then takes notes. Then listen once a month. It will change your writing https://youtu.be/vSX-DROZuzY?si=3iBL5oQLKsJPzR38
When it's good in your head, I think you already did an awesome job. Now just finish it, write, write, work, write and become the writer of whatever epic thing you want!! Lots of luck
writing something meaningful and impactful to you is important, you don't always have to necessarily relate 100% to the content, but for the most part, is has to be something that you're confident and proud of writing. i, myself have been writing screenplays since 2019 but have been a writer for most of my life and I can definitely tell that my writing has improved over the years. just a few helpful tips that have helped me over the years -- be open to feedback and constructive criticism, read more scripts, even the non-traditional ones as well (i'm currently in the process of reading some), write, write, write, even if you don't feel like it. enjoy the process -- the good, the bad, and the ugly. trust yourself and trust the process. you got it.
If you really like writing, just keep at it and keep learning more about your craft. Practically anyone can learn any human skill to the point of proficiency given enough time and practice. In various disciplines, I’ve seen people who started off as awful become “talented” and skilled through consistent applied effort and practice.
Maybe quit or write something else. Very few people get anywhere with this even if they're good. If you're happy doing it as a hobby though that's fine.
The very fact that you think you are a bad writer means you are a good writer. Why? You clearly have taste. You know what is forced and what is cliche. That is 99% of it. The rest is just practicing your skill until your pages match your taste. Keep at it. Read more. Write more. Stay honest and you got this :).
Honestly if it’s story you’re struggling with, practice isn’t going to help a whole lot. Writers spend so much of their life writing/learning how to, they don’t have anything to write about. (My struggles are kind of the opposite haha)
Some pro tips from a dilettante:
Drink heavily with strangers.
Go travelling.
Do something that terrifies you. Something that makes you feel as if you’re going to die.
Help an old lady with her shopping.
Find another hobby that requires great effort to master.
These will all help, none of them will save you.
Try reading and watching really bad content so you can take note on what works and what doesn't. Don't do things just cause they were cool when you saw them, before investigate and find out WHY it works
Numerous years ago, I frequented a local comic book shop, the employees of this establishment were composed of mostly aspirant comic/graphic novel writers. They would regularly produce self made books to display and sell to the locals.
I would try my best to purchase these to show support, but unfortunately the content.....I feel the word drivel would be generous.
These "writers" were extremely well versed in the medium they were aspiring to engage in. They probably consumed more than half of the content available within that shop.
Now there is something to be said about research, it is a keystone to any writing, the vast majority of the venerated writers in our history, do their research. Tolkien would be a perfect/extreme example, he researched Scandinavian and Irish, their myths, folklore and histories, all the sagas, the mabinogion(most of the names of his characters came from this), countless old texts of Germanic origin.
He didn't just make it up, most other writers don't either.
You have a concept, look around, see what others have done, get inspired, extrapolate, improve upon it, or warp it, if your so inclined. The problem with the aspiring writers of the aforementioned local shop I frequented was this, they read only comic books, just comic books.
Don't misunderstand, I love comic books, but don't use them as your main form of fueled inspiration or informational basis for your ideas to write. Just as some would probably say read screenplays, they are nothing more than a structural reference, if you intend on producing something that is your own.
There is a myriad of source material out there for you to consume.
I'd advise keeping away from current content(unless it is purely referential academic content), it's too fresh in the minds of the Masses, once you have a concept, hunt for relevant source material, the more obscure, the older, the better. Even if you idea is original, never before thought of, look for parallels, it will help to articulate your Idea. And remember that our current notions of presentism that our society is so enamoured with, is ultimately forgettable on the majority.
The only other thing I can impress upon you is this, read out loud to yourself the content you produce, it'll help with weeding out anything that is contrived or trite.
The creative writing process is like being an airline pilot forced to fly from NY to New Zealand on a medieval rack with no copilot, and your project is the open sky. You have no where to go. You’re always alone. It’s 90% long arduous torture. And if you experience that 10% adulation of pure unprocessed pleasure from this thing you’ve strapped yourself to, then keep coming back to it like a dog eats cat shit. Then, congratulations. You’re a sick fuck known as a writer.
I tell every screenplay writer to remember that someone had the idea to make a movie that revolved around sharks flying in a storm and now there are six of those mf’ing movies with a cult following.
There is someone somewhere that will love the movie/show you write and throw money at it to be made. The key is to keep writing and be confident in what you write.
my friend, I want to ask you a question: who are you? What do you believe, what do you know about yourself? what do you think of the world? these are the questions to find what is fundamental to writing: the voice.
Some time ago I also didn't understand what to write, I was repetitive and full of clichés. then over time, I had a revelation, I understood who I really am.
aka an iconoclast, I love destroying things and showing others that their vision is stale and cannot last.
Maybe I'm cynical, hyper-realistic and not very funny. but this is my voice.
which one is yours?
my friend, I want to ask you a question: who are you? What do you believe, what do you know about yourself? what do you think of the world? these are the questions to find what is fundamental to writing: the voice.
Some time ago I also didn't understand what to write, I was repetitive and full of clichés. then over time, I had a revelation, I understood who I really am.
aka an iconoclast, I love destroying things and showing others that their vision is stale and cannot last.
Maybe I'm cynical, hyper-realistic and not very funny. but this is my voice.
which one is yours?
my friend, I want to ask you a question: who are you? What do you believe, what do you know about yourself? what do you think of the world? these are the questions to find what is fundamental to writing: the voice.
Some time ago I also didn't understand what to write, I was repetitive and full of clichés. then over time, I had a revelation, I understood who I really am.
aka an iconoclast, I love destroying things and showing others that their vision is stale and cannot last.
Maybe I'm cynical, hyper-realistic and not very funny. but this is my voice.
which one is yours?
The best way to be a good writer, is to read good writing.
1. Pause your writing.
2. Stop reading any "how to" books. They're mostly a bunch of crap.
3. Find the Academy Award nominated cscreenplays (they're out there.) **Read at least 100 great screenplays** from movies that you like, preferrably that are successful. That is the best writing education you can get.
One thing you need to remember is cliché is unavoidable. Everything has been done before. It's your voice and narrative that counts.
Take this quote from Tarantino:
"What's the one movie we haven't seen because you haven't made it yet?"
It's important to source everything and find inspiration.
I think it's important to remember a lot of screenplays don't necessarily read as good on paper as they do in movie form.
However with ANY written work it's incredibly important to show it to other people and let them give feedback. You really can't write on your own, somebody is going to have a perspective that's different from what's in your head that you need to hear to understand how your story looks to other people.
Outlining helps a lot, especially when it comes to keeping track of your story. That being said don't be afraid to change the outline if the story calls for it.
However most importantly, you need to accept that nothing you ever write will appear as good as it was in your head. You may even need to accept that you *might* be a bad writer. Nobody ever started their career as a *good* writer. You have to write bad stuff before you can write good stuff. Sometimes you just have to get over that initial hump of "my first few things were kinda bad but I learned a lot from them".
By the way, just in general - possibility that you're not a bad writer, but that you'll never be great at certain aspects. Sometimes there's people who can write great scenes, but really struggle with plot. Can write wonderful dialogue, but just can't come up with imaginative twists.
This is where writing partners can come in really handy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcsXtiN8-UY (1980's KitKat ad)
To be serious, you obviously approach things with a self-critical eye. You're probably good and just having a lousy day.
Just from what you wrote bitching about how much you suck is better written than most scripts that have been made into movie over the past year. It also proves you aren't an egomaniac who won't take criticism. Keep going...and don't go the other way and be one of those people who know they write really well and say they suck to fish for compliments, lol..
every writer sucks. the great ones are just the ones who fight through it and create art to weigh against the world. if you are writing, you are doing it. you're doing it better then most people who can't even get up the guts to try(me)
Congratulations - just by writing this I can tell your a writer worth reading. Anyone that cares enough to agonize over their work and question it will always be working to be better.
Coverage reader/writer here with my two cents. I've read a ton of what I think are "okay" but nothing special screenplays. I've seen some of those very same screenplays place in contests or rank highly on Coverfly. So, cheesy as this sounds, if there's one thing to hold on to, it's that this industry is extremely subjective. I've personally sent off the same script to different services/contests and gotten completely different reviews of the writing quality. Believe me, if you put out a clean draft of your best effort (\*there's no excuse for crappy formatting, but everything else is on the table), you'll find at least one or two readers who connect with your work. As someone used to tell me, "You don't need to win every battle to win the war". Focus on exploring your creativity, learning to love the editing process, and taking care of your mental health when the going gets tough.
I’m not a screenwriter but I write songs.
I’ve been playing music and writing songs for 14 years now and I’m just now getting good at song writing. Not amazing. Just regular good.
Sometimes you gotta get all the bad ideas out of your brain so the good ones can come out. Kinda like a push pop.
Sometimes you just need to practice creating things. It seems like something you’re just born with; but you need to practice creating.
You got this
This may help. Start with a purpose of the film. Then identify your protagonist, then answer a few questions about your protagonist, do they have family, are they struggling with something, then go from. Along the journey everything that happens in the film is tied to the purpose that you’re trying to accomplish,
I really wanted to respond "We can tell by your writing in the post" but not only is that not true, that's the kind of joke that's only funny in between fictional characters that don't actually exist. Everyone else is right - good writing is rewriting and good writing also takes a lot of time and effort - but we have faith in you (speaking on behalf of the others who have also offered the same encouragement, not the royal "we" - I'm not that much of a fuckwad... I hope). Anywho, good luck!
If it's any consolation, I read your entire post and enjoyed it. It was clear and well structured. It felt personal and honest and it kept me engaged.
From what I've read of your writing, 10/10!
I’m not being sarcastic when I say, consider producing. Some producers are great story/idea people. They can collaborate with writers and bring awesome pitches and notes to the table, then that writer puts pen to paper. You’ll get different credits on projects but if the storytelling is what you care about it’ll still scratch that itch.
In relation to ideas, I often feel like this. There's a lifetime of cultural baggage we've all accumulated that needs to be jettisoned before any of us can access the good stuff. The solution is to not give up, to write more, and to be kind to yourself when you fall short. Your ability to recognise the shortcomings in your work should be a source of real encouragement - so many writers lack that degree of self-awareness.
Keep reading and keep writing. Dont get stuck on something thats not working perfectly, just finish it and move on. You can always come back to your old first drafts when you have more experience, but the worst thing is getting stuck in a rut.
I’m a very, very amateur screenwriter, but I do work professionally as a visual artist. In my experience, the single biggest thing that keeps people from being ‘good’ at something is believing they’ve already figured everything out and don’t need to continue improving.
It’s deflating to see your own work and realize it’s not where you want it to be, especially if you’re not sure how to get it there. But the fact that you’re able to be honest with yourself about your work and that you want to improve is a vital step of actually getting good at something. Most people don’t even make it to that point.
Again speaking as visual artist (but in my experience this is true of any art form), it’s about craftsmanship, not talent. You’re not where you want to be YET, but all that’s standing between here and there is practice. Seek out advice, be open to feedback, and always try and have fun. You’ve got this!
I think a big thing that writers who aren't in LA don't get is how we talk about ideas . Ideas that are 'fresh' have a real premium. So anything that's been done before typically will be discarded unless you have a really original take. And that original take can only come from you and your experience. So it's gotta be a fresh story, with an original, PERSONAL take. Those are the metrics writers out here use to evaluate an idea and decide if it's worth moving forward with it or not.
Do you read screenplays too? Because you havent given up you arent bad, just inexperienced.
I could certainly read more. Currently reading *Past Lives.* Lovely story. I know it when I see it, I just can't do it myself.
>I just can't do it myself *yet*
Nobody tells people who are beginners — and I really wish somebody had told this to me — is that all of us who do creative work … we get into it because we have good taste. But it’s like there’s a gap, that for the first couple years that you’re making stuff, what you’re making isn’t so good, OK? It’s not that great. It’s really not that great. It’s trying to be good, it has ambition to be good, but it’s not quite that good. But your taste — the thing that got you into the game — your taste is still killer, and your taste is good enough that you can tell that what you’re making is kind of a disappointment to you, you know what I mean? A lot of people never get past that phase. A lot of people at that point, they quit. And the thing I would just like say to you with all my heart is that most everybody I know who does interesting creative work, they went through a phase of years where they had really good taste and they could tell what they were making wasn’t as good as they wanted it to be — they knew it fell short, it didn’t have the special thing that we wanted it to have. And the thing I would say to you is everybody goes through that. And for you to go through it, if you’re going through it right now, if you’re just getting out of that phase — you gotta know it’s totally normal. And the most important possible thing you can do is do a lot of work — do a huge volume of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week, or every month, you know you’re going to finish one story. Because it’s only by actually going through a volume of work that you are actually going to catch up and close that gap. And the work you’re making will be as good as your ambitions. It takes a while, it’s gonna take you a while — it’s normal to take a while. And you just have to fight your way through that, okay? \- Ira Glass
Was just about to post this quote. Ira Glass is a real one. This is the best advice.🤘
Have you considered a writing partner?
Try putting more of yourself into your writing. Be as painfully honest as possible. I think that’s what separates good writing from bad writing.
Can you send a link of past luves
https://www.scriptslug.com/feature/2024-oscars
I 100% that it’s very important as a writer to read just as much too. For learning of course and also….. That’s when you come across all the actually “horrible” scripts then you’ll be like “holy shit, THIS got made!? Ok, yeah, I got this”
The job of a writer is to write bad cliche work and then rewrite it over and over again until it’s uniquely yours. Just keep pushing each character, each beat, each sentence.
^ this guy fucks! (writes)
Hell ya
not a screenwriter specifically but this is the inspiration i needed to get off my ass and keep writing, thank you
No wonder there's so much bad writing.
It’s an obviously reductionist take on a nuanced process… but I’m just trying to hype someone on the internet.
Ira Glass has some great advice for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2wLP0izeJE
This video inspired me to restart my journey 5-6 years ago and I had forgotten about it, now the video again emerged (your comment) when I needed it a lot. Thank you so much. Edit: I even found the actual video I had seen 5 years back, Haha. Here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91FQKciKfHI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91FQKciKfHI) (remember it because of horrible kinetic typography).
For dialogue at least, make sure when you go over your script and recognise a cliche you alter the line to the point where it's unrecognisable as a cliche. You quickly discover there are so many ways characters can say the same thing. Make them convey the same point, but alter the dialogue to a point where the cliche is not noticeable, even if what they're saying is in essence the same. Not sure if that made any form of sense but I always make sure to check and check twice more for cliches, especially in my dialogue
Have the characters talk around something rather than about it. Like people do in real life.
Do you have any examples of scripts where characters talk around something? I'm not sure I fully understand what that means.
I think he means talking about things pertaining to the point of whatever dialogue is going on, and not rushing to the point, allowing your characters to say more, and show more personality.
do you notice progress each year?
I admit I do. Minimal. But yes.
Meet other writers. See what they're doing. Take a class. Learn the basics if you haven't already. And read a LOT of scripts. See what you like about them to get a feel for your style. And hey, progress is progress.
Last sentence was the most important one of the bunch.
Its the only important one imho. The rest are temporary inconveniences at worst
There’s nothing wrong with knowing you may not be a great writer. It could be liberating if you can detach yourself from The success/failure desire trap that many creatives find themselves in. Loving something for its own sake is the best way to move forward. Keep progressing, keep writing but maybe shift from dreaming about success to accepting that you’re a writer who simply enjoys creating.
Don't feel bad, look at what's being made and tell me yours is any worse
The first thing any creative person worth their salt realizes is that their own stuff is not as good as it could be. Sucking at something is the first step toward being kinda good at something.
In your head they are good because you have taste. On paper they are no good because you are inexperienced. It’s great that you have it on paper, because now you can use your taste to completely refine what you’ve made, and make it better.
Something I’ve always wanted to do is write every cliche I could find and put just the most absolutely twisted spin on it and write a story around it. I feel like that might be something you could try. Keep things fun, and when cliches come, you’re ready for them.
I wanted to do this too! See if you could craft a spooky, hilarious whatever story by skillfully twisting cliches! I hope you do it!
I like this! Thanks.
You need to live life. You're not a bad writer, you just haven't got anything real to write about. Go summit a mountain, go have a fight somewhere. Get angry, get sad, get excited. Go swimming in deep deep ocean, camp in the wild. Go travelling. Talk with young people and old people.
Ain't this the truth. You look at the book Catcher in the Rye and think man that's a book about a bitchy guy dicking around town. This must have been written by some shut-in simpleton? Then look at the actual life lived by the writer JD Salinger who made it. Utah Beach on D-Day, saw friends blown up, interrogated prisoners of war, married a Nazi, hung out with Hemingway. The life it took to make that.
That sounds like good advice
as someone who loves to watch cliche romcoms and read them even More, i wouldn’t let that stop you. i genuinely think it’s the effort and care people put into their writing at times, versus the product itself. so much has already been done; my father is hypercritical of movies, but he watches every single Christmas Hallmark movie that releases (even the ones in July) because they are his true guilty pleasure, and he feels as strongly about them as he does about the (objectively) better written, major motion pictures he also enjoys. this is also why cowriters and editors are an amazing asset ;) don’t let it stop you from making stories!
Something I’m realizing is you need to become a bad writer before you can be a good writer. You can’t just skip right to being good. And besides, writing is a great hobby, it’s good to use your brain.
Realizing you're a bad writer is the first step to becoming a good writer. Because bad writers who think they are great are 95% of writers out there. You're in the 5%. You're doing great. Keep writing.
forced and cliche? sounds perfect for hollywood these days!
I am the nose of on the nose.
it was a joke.. perhaps a little crass. I meant no offense.
oh no. they are welcomed. needed, even.
Yep- if it's forced and cliched, and it entertains the script reader, you're golden.
Joe... Russo? lol
😂 I guess people aren't picking up the humor.
You’re in what Ira Glass calls the Taste Gap. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad writer, it just means you know what good writing is and you know you aren’t there yet. Keep going. Lots of good advice on this thread.
You might want to consider quitting whining. What you tell yourself becomes your reality.
Try some collab?
We all are, act accordingly
Read ‘big magic’ by Elizabeth Gilbert. This book will blow your mind and help you know that you can do it! Dont give up x
You’re WAY ahead of a lot of writers. You at least know you can and want and need to improve.
You’re a bad writer or your written works are bad? Because almost no one creates a first draft that is good. Many in fact, race to having a bad but completed script, and then in the process of rewriting it can become a masterpiece.
Do other people read your writing? Do they give you that note? It's possible it isn't actually as bad as you think. Or it is, and more practice will make you better. But don't operate in a vacuum. Get feedback. I've pitched ideas in rooms that I thought were universally obvious or cliche, but the room thought were great and unique. And some of the ideas I thought were my most brilliant and unique were seen as obvious and unimpressive.
Have you considered teaming up with a book author? Team up and use the storyline to create the script, and you both could win.
If cliche is the problem it's because your characters aren't living the story. You're forcing the plot on them.
How is it... I'm 100% goign through this exact same epiphany right now. Pretty much word for word... I'm usually wrtiign Sci-fi and fantasy, and have a number of scripts and stories I thought were going quite well. So I thought I'd challenge myself. Instead of writing action explody shooty punchy fun time stories, I would try somethign more cerebral and thoughtful, set in modern day, following a reporter... And I've tried telling three different stories with her, and all three just fall apart. I am completely incapable of writing anything that isnt a huge explode-y blockbuster or wild sci-fi fantasy. And nobody hires a nobody like me for those kinds of jobs... Which leaves me wondering... am I just a bad writer?
I feel there’s a middle ground between those two polar opposites, maybe there’s a ~~human~~ cerebral story lurking on the surface of your planets for example?
I'd like to think my sci-fi stories are not completely shallow... But there is still a lot of shooty shooty bang bang. Script: [https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vk1ucmi2zqlchg6b6lfqh/teleplay-Adrift-Homeless-TV-Pilot-2023.pdf?rlkey=6uvq4t6yiaqyahah3xa18xgh5&dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vk1ucmi2zqlchg6b6lfqh/teleplay-Adrift-Homeless-TV-Pilot-2023.pdf?rlkey=6uvq4t6yiaqyahah3xa18xgh5&dl=0) Novel: [https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrgraimrj9u7egv/%5BNOVEL%5D%20%5BSciFi%5DAdrift%20Homeless%5BSeason%201%5D%202016.pdf?dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrgraimrj9u7egv/%5BNOVEL%5D%20%5BSciFi%5DAdrift%20Homeless%5BSeason%201%5D%202016.pdf?dl=0) It's probably my best work. Made me think I could do anything!
What a read so far seems good!
Oh thanks! I really appreciate that. As I said... Sci-fi is what I'm good at. Fantasy too [https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpgfhi9djw64xkg/%5Bteleplay%5DThe%20Aldonn%20Chronicles%201x01%20%5BTv%20Pilot%5D.pdf?dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpgfhi9djw64xkg/%5Bteleplay%5DThe%20Aldonn%20Chronicles%201x01%20%5BTv%20Pilot%5D.pdf?dl=0) Those are my best works... But then I thought I'd challenge myself, and tried writing about a journalist named Isabol Tseung of Voice News. And every time the plot just falls apart in Act 3 xD I've written one novel, and then wrote two sequels as screenplays, each story being like a james bond stand alone thing but with a focus on a reporter instead of a spy. But it was a bad idea, I should have stuck with what I was good at xD https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbbfi40q96uij2l/%5BScreenplay%5DIsabol%20Tseung%20Voice%20News%5BFilm%5D.pdf?dl=0 [https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t7us2vnpa8zy2veck2efi/Isabol-Tseung-3.pdf?rlkey=pk6rjempjfg2bs11d5omx5lj1&dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t7us2vnpa8zy2veck2efi/Isabol-Tseung-3.pdf?rlkey=pk6rjempjfg2bs11d5omx5lj1&dl=0) The last one is the one I'm working on now, and Act 3 has just completely fallen apart. I'm forcing myself through it, but it's going to suck.
Also I never get feedback, so like if you have any for Adrift Homeless, I'd love to hear it! People usually tell me I suck without ever even touching my stuff!
And I was on twitter today begging Patty Jenkins to let me help her write her rogue squadron movie. Of course no one would ever let me touch somethign like star wars. I'm a hack \*cries\*
This is purely a hobby for me in my spare time… but man am I feeling this!
I consider myself a bad writer as well. You just gotta identify what it is you’re good at and what you struggle with. For me I’m pretty good with symbolism, theme integration, worldbuilding, and building a consistent and strong plot. However I cannot for the life of me write good dialogue.
you're self-aware of your shortcomings, you're better than half of the screenwriters in entertainment.
I always felt the most of marvel movies are the same story the the same character just in different clothes. So beat yourself up for the right reason and then get back at, your stories are your and you now why you thought of them in first place.
Try sabotaging your characters story lines and make it near impossible for them to get out of it without breaking some rules.
>No, I won't quit. This is what counts. I have shit I wrote 5/4 years ago and reading it makes me want to vomit it's so bad. Cheezy ass dialouge, horrible prose, absolutely cringeworthy characters and tons of cliches. I don't know if I'm "good" yet, but maaaan I've impoved. Reading my stuff now is much more bareable, and I've even gotten quite a lot of praise on some stuff. I just recommend that you keep writing. Everytime you write something bad, it's a little less bad than the last thing you wrote. Before you know it, you start liking your own writing, and then hopefully other people start liking it. Just keep at it. You can do it!
Good you. Push harder. Keep going.
Seems like you may need to readdress your process. Maybe spend more time flushing out your ideas before putting pen to paper, or bits to the screen. Just because it sounds good in your head, does not.mean that it is a good story, or maybe it is, but just not enough for a full length film. Try looking at some videos to see how others plan their work. See if any of them may help. Try a couple and see if it helps. Also, maybe try writing shorts, like a 20 min episode for twilight zone, or similar type of show.
First you have to know what you are a bad writer, and if I had to guess, not knowing you at all, is that all the way that the way that you have been taught is not the best way you should learn. I grew up on the Hero's Journey, and love it still, but I ended up creating a new structure based not on patterns, but more concrete psychology. I can give you the two part basics really quick. First, each moment in narrative should have an emotion, behavior, belief, and value. So for example, if a character is pushed down, they may be upset, run away, believe they are worthless, and value self preservation. Or they may be mad, push back, believe they are weak, and value power. Now there are about 7 of these in a scene: the first defines the emotions, behaviors, beliefs, and values. The second shows what they want, while the third shows them going for it. The next shows what is in their way, and the fifth shows them getting what they want. The last two shows how it change them, and how their change affects others. Now that is per scene, and there are 5 scenes in a segment. There is a need, a connection, a resonance, a conflict, and a value. 1. A character needs to feel cared for, someone comes along to care for them, giving them hope for the future. 2. That character needs to feel safe, develops a way to be safe, and has the willpower to push through difficult challenges. 3. They then need to find where they belong. They explore the world and through that, they develop a purpose. 4. They then need to have esteem. They take on challenges and develop confidence. 5. They need to understand themselves, and through that they develop an identity and become loyal to themselves. 6. They need to see beauty, and through connections they develop the ability to love. 7. They need to find their place in the world, so they are generous and learn to care for others. This structure should help you organize your stories into something more cohesive, and beyond that be able to pull from your life experiences to help you.
Some advice that helped me was to stop trying to write and start trying to find your "voice" To put it simply, why do you want to write? Is it to make money? Tell stories? Create badass action scenes? Scare the shit out of people? What? If it's money you're after, I'll just say you're wasting everyones time. Including your own. I'm not saying this job doesn't have the chance of a big payoff, but you're gonna need something else to keep you motivated during the broke years. Once you find your voice, tell a story that means something to you personally. It doesn't have to be a self insert but something you connect with. Lastly, if you're new. Try writing short stories and "shorts" just so you get in the rhythm of FINISHING STORIES. Doesn't matter if it's utter shit. Just finish. You can always go back and edit.
Basically this thought pattern is my mourning routine.
Well written
Hey, friend \~ 30-year book/content editor here (different field, I know—I lurk because I'm also a frustrated and aspiring screenwriter), with a couple notes I give my clients that I find is a more helpful way to frame writing evaluation: * Start from how you want your audience to feel when they read it and work back from there. * Think of work as a continuum from "weak" to "strong" rather than the binary "good" or bad," because it's more about the right fit than objective "quality." * Decision-makers are often looking to fill a specific niche. LOOK AT THE FUCKING SCHLOCK THAT GETS MADE! HOW?! The most important thing was that the work was the right fit, not that it was "good." I find this distracts the little voice doubt long enough to get some real work done. The other best way is to find two or three readers whose tastes you admire. A writing group can be great if it’s both supportive and honest (read: its members are talented and not too insecure). Take all feedback with a grain of salt, but if you get the same note from a few people, pay attention. Good luck on your quest!
I've discovered that input matters. If you watch more films outside of the genres or narrative structures/conventions of what you normally watch, it starts affecting your work even if you don't really like it. In college I watched stuff like Chantal Akerman and Kelly Reichardt and it got me to think about things in a different way. Watch some weird stuff and see if that helps. Stretch your brain man!!!
Dude, just looks at the slop that gets picked up and made. I assure you that you’re probably not as bad. You just need to read more and keep writing.
Glad you realized it. Now you can only get better. and don’t fucking quit.
You might never be good. Just make sure you have no regrets later on. You want a retirement and you want healthcare when you’re older. If you can keep writing while making sure you’re not becoming a loser then keep writing and don’t worry about. Most people are horrible musicians but that doesn’t stop people from enjoying guitar alone in their room. Remember, this isn’t the most important thing in life. It’s really not important at all.
What draft are you stopping at? The first couple to few might be really bad, but a lot of writing is rewriting. No movie script ever is amazing or many times even good on the first draft. I’d recommend going through each scene and asking what is your character trying to achieve and how is this scene driving the story forward
Also, listen to this whole podcast episode. Then listen again. Then takes notes. Then listen once a month. It will change your writing https://youtu.be/vSX-DROZuzY?si=3iBL5oQLKsJPzR38
Just keep practicing. It’s impossible to be bad forever if you improve everyday
The fact that you've realized this means that you're like 99% of the way to getting good. You'll only get better from here. Keep forging ahead.
When it's good in your head, I think you already did an awesome job. Now just finish it, write, write, work, write and become the writer of whatever epic thing you want!! Lots of luck
writing something meaningful and impactful to you is important, you don't always have to necessarily relate 100% to the content, but for the most part, is has to be something that you're confident and proud of writing. i, myself have been writing screenplays since 2019 but have been a writer for most of my life and I can definitely tell that my writing has improved over the years. just a few helpful tips that have helped me over the years -- be open to feedback and constructive criticism, read more scripts, even the non-traditional ones as well (i'm currently in the process of reading some), write, write, write, even if you don't feel like it. enjoy the process -- the good, the bad, and the ugly. trust yourself and trust the process. you got it.
If you really like writing, just keep at it and keep learning more about your craft. Practically anyone can learn any human skill to the point of proficiency given enough time and practice. In various disciplines, I’ve seen people who started off as awful become “talented” and skilled through consistent applied effort and practice.
I have just started my first screen play I thaught I was going to suck turns out it’s not to bad
Maybe quit or write something else. Very few people get anywhere with this even if they're good. If you're happy doing it as a hobby though that's fine.
The very fact that you think you are a bad writer means you are a good writer. Why? You clearly have taste. You know what is forced and what is cliche. That is 99% of it. The rest is just practicing your skill until your pages match your taste. Keep at it. Read more. Write more. Stay honest and you got this :).
I’m confused why they’re good in your head but not on paper?
"In the learning process, resign yourself to writing lots of rubbish." —J. K. Rowling. Keep going! 💪🏾 🔥
Honestly if it’s story you’re struggling with, practice isn’t going to help a whole lot. Writers spend so much of their life writing/learning how to, they don’t have anything to write about. (My struggles are kind of the opposite haha) Some pro tips from a dilettante: Drink heavily with strangers. Go travelling. Do something that terrifies you. Something that makes you feel as if you’re going to die. Help an old lady with her shopping. Find another hobby that requires great effort to master. These will all help, none of them will save you.
Try reading and watching really bad content so you can take note on what works and what doesn't. Don't do things just cause they were cool when you saw them, before investigate and find out WHY it works
Numerous years ago, I frequented a local comic book shop, the employees of this establishment were composed of mostly aspirant comic/graphic novel writers. They would regularly produce self made books to display and sell to the locals. I would try my best to purchase these to show support, but unfortunately the content.....I feel the word drivel would be generous. These "writers" were extremely well versed in the medium they were aspiring to engage in. They probably consumed more than half of the content available within that shop. Now there is something to be said about research, it is a keystone to any writing, the vast majority of the venerated writers in our history, do their research. Tolkien would be a perfect/extreme example, he researched Scandinavian and Irish, their myths, folklore and histories, all the sagas, the mabinogion(most of the names of his characters came from this), countless old texts of Germanic origin. He didn't just make it up, most other writers don't either. You have a concept, look around, see what others have done, get inspired, extrapolate, improve upon it, or warp it, if your so inclined. The problem with the aspiring writers of the aforementioned local shop I frequented was this, they read only comic books, just comic books. Don't misunderstand, I love comic books, but don't use them as your main form of fueled inspiration or informational basis for your ideas to write. Just as some would probably say read screenplays, they are nothing more than a structural reference, if you intend on producing something that is your own. There is a myriad of source material out there for you to consume. I'd advise keeping away from current content(unless it is purely referential academic content), it's too fresh in the minds of the Masses, once you have a concept, hunt for relevant source material, the more obscure, the older, the better. Even if you idea is original, never before thought of, look for parallels, it will help to articulate your Idea. And remember that our current notions of presentism that our society is so enamoured with, is ultimately forgettable on the majority. The only other thing I can impress upon you is this, read out loud to yourself the content you produce, it'll help with weeding out anything that is contrived or trite.
The creative writing process is like being an airline pilot forced to fly from NY to New Zealand on a medieval rack with no copilot, and your project is the open sky. You have no where to go. You’re always alone. It’s 90% long arduous torture. And if you experience that 10% adulation of pure unprocessed pleasure from this thing you’ve strapped yourself to, then keep coming back to it like a dog eats cat shit. Then, congratulations. You’re a sick fuck known as a writer.
I tell every screenplay writer to remember that someone had the idea to make a movie that revolved around sharks flying in a storm and now there are six of those mf’ing movies with a cult following. There is someone somewhere that will love the movie/show you write and throw money at it to be made. The key is to keep writing and be confident in what you write.
my friend, I want to ask you a question: who are you? What do you believe, what do you know about yourself? what do you think of the world? these are the questions to find what is fundamental to writing: the voice. Some time ago I also didn't understand what to write, I was repetitive and full of clichés. then over time, I had a revelation, I understood who I really am. aka an iconoclast, I love destroying things and showing others that their vision is stale and cannot last. Maybe I'm cynical, hyper-realistic and not very funny. but this is my voice. which one is yours?
my friend, I want to ask you a question: who are you? What do you believe, what do you know about yourself? what do you think of the world? these are the questions to find what is fundamental to writing: the voice. Some time ago I also didn't understand what to write, I was repetitive and full of clichés. then over time, I had a revelation, I understood who I really am. aka an iconoclast, I love destroying things and showing others that their vision is stale and cannot last. Maybe I'm cynical, hyper-realistic and not very funny. but this is my voice. which one is yours?
my friend, I want to ask you a question: who are you? What do you believe, what do you know about yourself? what do you think of the world? these are the questions to find what is fundamental to writing: the voice. Some time ago I also didn't understand what to write, I was repetitive and full of clichés. then over time, I had a revelation, I understood who I really am. aka an iconoclast, I love destroying things and showing others that their vision is stale and cannot last. Maybe I'm cynical, hyper-realistic and not very funny. but this is my voice. which one is yours?
The best way to be a good writer, is to read good writing. 1. Pause your writing. 2. Stop reading any "how to" books. They're mostly a bunch of crap. 3. Find the Academy Award nominated cscreenplays (they're out there.) **Read at least 100 great screenplays** from movies that you like, preferrably that are successful. That is the best writing education you can get.
Ehhh, normal feelings lol. You ain’t trying if you don’t feel like this.
One thing you need to remember is cliché is unavoidable. Everything has been done before. It's your voice and narrative that counts. Take this quote from Tarantino: "What's the one movie we haven't seen because you haven't made it yet?" It's important to source everything and find inspiration.
“Tossed ashore by turd infested waters” 😂😂 I mean this post is about as good as most things I’ve read so I say keep it up
I think it's important to remember a lot of screenplays don't necessarily read as good on paper as they do in movie form. However with ANY written work it's incredibly important to show it to other people and let them give feedback. You really can't write on your own, somebody is going to have a perspective that's different from what's in your head that you need to hear to understand how your story looks to other people. Outlining helps a lot, especially when it comes to keeping track of your story. That being said don't be afraid to change the outline if the story calls for it. However most importantly, you need to accept that nothing you ever write will appear as good as it was in your head. You may even need to accept that you *might* be a bad writer. Nobody ever started their career as a *good* writer. You have to write bad stuff before you can write good stuff. Sometimes you just have to get over that initial hump of "my first few things were kinda bad but I learned a lot from them".
Have you joined a writing group and sat through sessions of critique? It's honestly the thing I'd say has most upped my game.
By the way, just in general - possibility that you're not a bad writer, but that you'll never be great at certain aspects. Sometimes there's people who can write great scenes, but really struggle with plot. Can write wonderful dialogue, but just can't come up with imaginative twists. This is where writing partners can come in really handy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcsXtiN8-UY (1980's KitKat ad) To be serious, you obviously approach things with a self-critical eye. You're probably good and just having a lousy day.
Just from what you wrote bitching about how much you suck is better written than most scripts that have been made into movie over the past year. It also proves you aren't an egomaniac who won't take criticism. Keep going...and don't go the other way and be one of those people who know they write really well and say they suck to fish for compliments, lol..
These are things we all struggle with, truly.
every writer sucks. the great ones are just the ones who fight through it and create art to weigh against the world. if you are writing, you are doing it. you're doing it better then most people who can't even get up the guts to try(me)
Congratulations - just by writing this I can tell your a writer worth reading. Anyone that cares enough to agonize over their work and question it will always be working to be better.
This goes through my head a dozen times a day. Yet here I am 5 years later still penning story structure at my 9-5 on a ripped legal pad sheet.
Coverage reader/writer here with my two cents. I've read a ton of what I think are "okay" but nothing special screenplays. I've seen some of those very same screenplays place in contests or rank highly on Coverfly. So, cheesy as this sounds, if there's one thing to hold on to, it's that this industry is extremely subjective. I've personally sent off the same script to different services/contests and gotten completely different reviews of the writing quality. Believe me, if you put out a clean draft of your best effort (\*there's no excuse for crappy formatting, but everything else is on the table), you'll find at least one or two readers who connect with your work. As someone used to tell me, "You don't need to win every battle to win the war". Focus on exploring your creativity, learning to love the editing process, and taking care of your mental health when the going gets tough.
I’m not a screenwriter but I write songs. I’ve been playing music and writing songs for 14 years now and I’m just now getting good at song writing. Not amazing. Just regular good. Sometimes you gotta get all the bad ideas out of your brain so the good ones can come out. Kinda like a push pop. Sometimes you just need to practice creating things. It seems like something you’re just born with; but you need to practice creating. You got this
This may help. Start with a purpose of the film. Then identify your protagonist, then answer a few questions about your protagonist, do they have family, are they struggling with something, then go from. Along the journey everything that happens in the film is tied to the purpose that you’re trying to accomplish,
I really wanted to respond "We can tell by your writing in the post" but not only is that not true, that's the kind of joke that's only funny in between fictional characters that don't actually exist. Everyone else is right - good writing is rewriting and good writing also takes a lot of time and effort - but we have faith in you (speaking on behalf of the others who have also offered the same encouragement, not the royal "we" - I'm not that much of a fuckwad... I hope). Anywho, good luck!
If you can recognize bad writing, you can learn to fix it.
If it's any consolation, I read your entire post and enjoyed it. It was clear and well structured. It felt personal and honest and it kept me engaged. From what I've read of your writing, 10/10!
I’m not being sarcastic when I say, consider producing. Some producers are great story/idea people. They can collaborate with writers and bring awesome pitches and notes to the table, then that writer puts pen to paper. You’ll get different credits on projects but if the storytelling is what you care about it’ll still scratch that itch.
In relation to ideas, I often feel like this. There's a lifetime of cultural baggage we've all accumulated that needs to be jettisoned before any of us can access the good stuff. The solution is to not give up, to write more, and to be kind to yourself when you fall short. Your ability to recognise the shortcomings in your work should be a source of real encouragement - so many writers lack that degree of self-awareness.
Keep reading and keep writing. Dont get stuck on something thats not working perfectly, just finish it and move on. You can always come back to your old first drafts when you have more experience, but the worst thing is getting stuck in a rut.
I’m a very, very amateur screenwriter, but I do work professionally as a visual artist. In my experience, the single biggest thing that keeps people from being ‘good’ at something is believing they’ve already figured everything out and don’t need to continue improving. It’s deflating to see your own work and realize it’s not where you want it to be, especially if you’re not sure how to get it there. But the fact that you’re able to be honest with yourself about your work and that you want to improve is a vital step of actually getting good at something. Most people don’t even make it to that point. Again speaking as visual artist (but in my experience this is true of any art form), it’s about craftsmanship, not talent. You’re not where you want to be YET, but all that’s standing between here and there is practice. Seek out advice, be open to feedback, and always try and have fun. You’ve got this!
even for more experienced writers, the first draft they initially write tend to be shit.
I have great stories but I dont write, when it comes to the actual writing part. Im not motivated and get bord what do I do?
Same man same…
I've been there. Writing is like sex: it's lots of fun and healthy, but you probably don't want to do it for a job.
I think a big thing that writers who aren't in LA don't get is how we talk about ideas . Ideas that are 'fresh' have a real premium. So anything that's been done before typically will be discarded unless you have a really original take. And that original take can only come from you and your experience. So it's gotta be a fresh story, with an original, PERSONAL take. Those are the metrics writers out here use to evaluate an idea and decide if it's worth moving forward with it or not.