My kid is still in elementary school. I have also done some contract work at a couple of the high schools. My experience has been that the district administration is bloated, nonsensical, and full of straight up lies. Every email I get from them requires a bullshit translator. They can't keep a superintendent for more than two years, they're always whining about funding, and their calendar makes no sense.(Two spring breaks? Early release every Wednesday? No slack planned for inclement weather?). I do not have a high opinion of SPS administration. HOWEVER, my experience at the schools themselves has so far been perfectly lovely. My kid's teachers have all been earnest and kind. The teachers at the high schools I've worked at are stalwart forces of nature. The buildings are clean and functional, if sometimes a bit worn down. The curriculum seems reasonable and age appropriate, and the state testing is treated as a necessary evil (which it is). All of my interactions with administration at the school level itself have been overwhelmingly positive. Their emails at least are prompt, polite, and reasonable. So I am not unhappy with my kid's actual schooling at all. But, it should be noted, my kid is neurotypical, of average intelligence, and has no particular special needs. I chose the local option school, partly because it was small and diverse, and partly because it was in a nice neighborhood. (I will be very upset if they choose to close it down). So I can only speak to my own experience. We are also a family with two adults, one kid, and one car. We can't afford private school either.

This has been our experience as well. The district itself is a mess, but despite that my son is receiving a good education so far because the school's teachers and staff are amazing.

This is well said. Our everyday experience with our neighborhood elementary school has been very positive. Very engaged teachers and great staff. The decision-making at the district level though is awful.

>Every email I get from \[SPS\] requires a bullshit translator. As someone who has worked in the district for the last ten years.... HAHAHAHAHA hilariously accurate.

My kids tell me some of the SPS communication is produced by ChatGPT

hi there, this is my first time commenting on a Reddit thread. Idk if it’s chill to change the subject or not but was it hard to get hired by the district? I currently live on east coast and am relocating to seattle. I’ve applied to 10 different listings over the last couple weeks, all of which I believe I am overqualified for. I have heard nothing in response to any of these applicationss and all the listings have been closed for a few days. Beyond that, I sent an email to HR several days ago and haven’t heard anything. I know I’m being impatient, but I’m absolutely itching to secure employment so I can start applying for housing. Also there’s no phone number to call that I can find. do you have any tips on getting in touch w a real person at SPS HR?

Hi there, Sorry to hear about the lack of communication. Unfortunately, I've been employed here for so long that I don't even really remember the details of how I got my "in" with the district. I know you don't want to hear this, but just keep knocking on doors and reaching out. Good luck!

hey thanks anyways for the response!

Are you talking about Talking Points? Isn’t that done so non English speaking/reading parents can also get into? I think that’s a useful tool for many! Is there something else you’re referring?

No, I’m talking about their emails where they create a bulky word salad and use a lot of words to not actually say anything, or straight up misrepresent what’s actually happening. I love TalkingPoints and many of my families benefit from it. However, it’s not great and my families often express confusion over what I send them (via a generated translation). I much prefer contacting families through our bilingual IAs.

Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. I think I don’t read those emails well enough to have an opinion. ;) The formatting alone turns me off from jump.

“Bullshit translator” i imagine is referring to buzzwords and flowery nothing statements

This is correct. The administration borders on cartoonishly incompetent. The teachers and school admins are incredible and doing their best.

Administration in education is such a massive grift. Need a law to cap these morons’ salaries. No one deserves $250k+ as a superintendent. And in colleges it’s worse. Mark Emmert has made millions mismanaging organizations in his career, as just one example

Not just in education. Our healthcare system has the biggest admin grift of all time

No doubt. $15 mil a year to be a CEO of a “non-profit”

Lol non-profit is whole different can of worms. I was talking about the for profit hospital admin, insurance admin, healthcare consultants, claims auditing. We all end up paying for it and non of it goes to improving our health

Many of your complaints - specifically early release dates, two spring breaks, and admin “bullshit detector” would also apply to every suburban school district around here.

Same as early release on wednesdays.

Send my kid to private and there’s also early release 1x week.

And really isn’t bullshit. Children and staff alike need those breaks. The burnout at the end of the year is serious even with them. I’d dread to be in a district without them.  Sincerely, a former teacher and now current school social worker. 

Regarding funding -- it's a real issue -- not a whine. I'm a student board representative for Shoreline and all state districts are having BAD funding issues. I mean *bad*. As in, *tens of millions of $$$ deficit bad*. It's not the district's fault -- it's the state for not appropriately scaling to inflation their funding, cutting the amount districts can take from their levies, and in fact *decreasing* the allocations districts receive. Also; early-release Wednesdays are pretty normal. Happens in Shoreline. I personally like it -- not a big deal.

Perfect answer and my experience too.

My experience as well, at least to middle school level (so far).   District and admin stuff is generally worth a good eye roll, but as far as curriculum and individual classrooms I really have no complaint.   I leave open the possibility that other schools in the district might be rougher, but I'm not in any of the "good" areas the OP mentioned either.

As someone who grew up here the two breaks and early release Wednesdays were always the best part! It’s also not limited to SPS; that is the case for every district in the greater Seattle-Tacoma area.  As a teacher in SPS now, those early Wednesdays are absolutely critical for lesson planning and professional development. When else can we get stuff done?? (I’m assuming by two spring breaks, you mean spring break and mid-winter break? The break that’s in early February? What do you have against that??)

It’s also standard in that i got it at nyc when i grew up. The American school year is 180 days. Parents particularly here may come from countries where that length is longer.

North Thurston tried mid winter break when I was in high school and by my senior year so many parents complained about finding child care they reduced it back to just Presidents’ Day weekend with a half day Friday.

Can't you do your planning and professional development during one of your many week long breaks, or the 3 month break in the summer?

As a HS student, this very much aligns with how I feel. In regards to your uncertainty about the Special Ed, in my experience, its quality has been inconsistent - though pretty good on average - across schools. My current school's Special Ed has been phenomenal, though.

The two spring breaks and early release every wednesday is done in several districts on the eastside and has been since I was in school in the 90s/early 2000s. Agree its dumb, but its normal for this area.

I should perhaps clarify that the calendar is the least of my complaints. I am mostly salty about it because of the disaster that was the 22/23 school year. Because admin so completely bungled the strike at the beginning of the year, (all the while sending disingenuous emails!), there was absolutely no room for bad weather, which we had, and will continue to have more of. We were a few days worth of ice storm or a local forest fire away from being scheduled for classes all the way into July. Unacceptable. Frankly, after that year SPS admin had so completely tanked in my opinion, that I question every decision they make. I do not trust them, and it would take a pretty impressive show of leadership to rebuild that with me.

Yeah, the lies in the SPS emails about the strikes really destroyed any credibility the district had with me and is a major reason why I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their communications about consolidating and shutting down many of the elementary schools.

> their calendar makes no sense.(Two spring breaks? I assume you're labeling the one firmly in winter as a second spring break. In my experience, most families like having winter break and spring break.

can you clarify two spring breaks? I thought it was winter break (post presidents day) and spring break (early/mid April). Those two breaks are pretty standard in the US these days. Spring break next year isn't until the week of April 14th!

Why do teachers despise state testing? I am asking from a point of curiosity. I remember taking them as a student and yeah no test is fun, but don’t we need a way to gauge how students are performing relative on one another. And while the tactic as in the current test format may be not the best, the idea of a state test feels useful. But, I only have my and a few friends view in this.

Early release or a late start is common like everywhere now

I’m a teacher in a different district but I have friends in SPS. I don’t disagree with anything you said except for the early release Wednesdays. Teachers use these for planning, grading, and meetings so we can minimize the amount of schoolwork we do outside of the workday. Most area districts have them

Never heard of this. What time does class let out on Wednesdays? >Early release every Wednesday?

75-minute early release every Wednesday. Staff has trainings they attend.

I grew up in New York State and every Wednesday was early release there too. As far as I can tell, this is very common across the country, though I didn't find a quick answer as to exactly how common it is.

Its common here too, I had early release every Wednesday in the mid 90s

Early release Wednesdays are so teachers and staff can have staff meetings, professional development, and planning time.

I know. Im saying we have had them for 30 years now

We did not have them on the Eastside 30 years ago.

We did have them 20 years ago, though!

I wonder if its a new thing. Moses is old and fun wasn't allowed to be had in my day, especially if public schools were involved.

Might be new in these parts, but I grew up in the 80s so I wouldn't call it a new thing in Western NY at least.

Mid winter break is awful. The SY could have ended last Wednesday if not for the go to hawaii or my cabin on Lopez mid winter break. Instead here we are plucking away Tuesday June 18th still in school. Renton does late arrival Friday Instead of early release Wednesday.

It's either early release every Wednesday and the local child care service providers (and after school enrichment centers) accommodating for it automatically, or one day off a month for teacher in-service days, which is what I had growing up. Personally, early release Wednesdays are better than a monthly day off where you have to pay extra for child care. Wednesdays are used for staff meetings, training, team meetings, and general school organization either as a whole, or by grade level.

Not a current SPS parents but a long-term SPS teacher. In my opinion, most teachers are extremely hard working, caring individuals who wouldn’t stay if they didn’t care about public education. Like any group, I’m sure there are some bad apples, but the teachers I work with are some of the most kind, dedicated, loving people I’ve encountered. We work hard to connect with parents and students and make everyone feel seen and known and cared for. I will say- the district hoopla can make things challenging and stressful, but private schools (I taught at one in Seattle for just one year) have their own drama and stress. Parents who are involved, spend time at their child’s school, or even just keep in good contact with teachers are a large part of a child’s success and happiness at school. Best of luck ✌🏽

hi there, this is a total shot in the dark, but im relocating to Seattle and have applied to 10+ job listings at SPS, but haven’t heard a peep. i was wondering if you have any tips on how to get in contact with a real person at HR. I’m pretty sure I’m overqualified for all of the positions and have tried to reach out via email to follow up on my applications, but it’s radio silence. bellevue HR at least got back to me immediately regarding a missing document. Is there like a secret phone number? I can’t seem to find one that actually works. I really appreciate any info or feedback :)

Seattle HR has been cut to the bone due to budget cuts, it’s extremely unlikely you’ll get ahold of a person right now, during peak hiring. Seattle also has a tiered hiring system, with first preference to current teachers, displaced teachers, and STR candidates. We also get A LOT of applicants. I was on an interview team this year that saw over 100 applications for one elementary position. We gave preference to current SPS teachers, STR candidates, and people with many years of experience in that grade. It can be very difficult to get hired on as an outside candidate. Some teachers who are teaching summer school but not returning next year also do not give notice until after summer school. You might need to sub for a while until the final numbers come in October and jobs are posted for openings again.

Thank you so much for this insight! I really appreciate it. That’s good advice.

how are those students tho?

What students?

the one's you teach?

They’re great 👍🏽

My son went K through 12th grade in south Seattle schools (where I bet most people will say is the worst area of Seattle - Kimball > Mercer > Franklin). I’ll keep this short, but we stayed active with his education and involved with his extracurricular activities. He’s graduating this year with a 3.977 gpa and got some scholarships (one tough Calculus class ruined his 4.0!). He also got into the Computer Engineering program at UW and Seattle U. Your children will be successful in SPS if you make an effort. Don’t expect to drop off your kids to school and have them to make your kids successful for you.

holy fuck- congrats to your kiddo getting into CE at UW- that's a tough program to get into!

The elementary school seems halfway decent so far. I'm a little bummed that there's virtually no advanced learning options for my kid, though, despite having great test scores. The lack of advanced learning and my lack of money force me to provide additional education/enrichment at home. There's some benefits to this, but I'm not an educator, so I have blindspots In my opinion, private school isn't the best option for gifted students even. When I was in school, all the advanced students were placed in the same class, and that fostered a great environment for education. Mostly because all the students were actually interested in learning. I do understand why they don't really do this anymore, though.

Advance learning do exist in ISD but we have been told it is minimal until 3rd grade, our kid was on the edge of the cut off in kindergarden as tests are not designed with non-neurotypical kids in mind (it asks the same style questions over and over again) but fortunately his teacher acknowledged that he was getting bored due to content and gave him and couple other kids in class additional reading and math material. Things have improved drastically after that change, we are really glad for the teacher working with us in this case. I believe they will get retested again in 2nd or 3rd year.

Out of curiosity, the removal of advanced curriculum was supposed to be in favor of differentiated instruction. Is your kid receiving any of this? I would expect not.

> the removal of advanced curriculum was supposed to be in favor of differentiated instruction From an operational standpoint within the classroom, this will never work as well unfortunately. With classes sizes where they are and the teacher needing to address a wider range of skillsets/knowledge, they will need to focus more on students who need help or are struggling than spending time enriching students who are moving through the content quickly. Given how teachers are judged/graded on student performance at end of year, they will be structurally disincentivized to focus on making the experience great for advanced kids since they are likely to be fine at end of year testing regardless compared to their classmates.

That is my expectation, but I wanted to ask someone actually experiencing the result of the change.

from what i have been told from a SPS teacher on the change: it is difficult to implement different strategies in the same classroom as different advancement levels also come with differing attention spans. if you break the classroom down into three parts you will have: A: academic achievers who go above and beyond B: middle of the road students who can do and complete work but need more structure or guidance C: students who are doing poorly in class who tend to not focus or follow direction. So let’s say you give the same worksheet to this classroom, the kids that tend to goof off will monopolize people’s attention and the kids in the middle trying will become distracted. Advanced students also become a problem by finishing their work early and then they become bored and start goofing off. Students struggling will see their peers breeze through and then goof off and they’ll become frustrated and just give up. Trying to implement multiple worksheets for multiple tracks in the same classroom is pretty much impossible, according to him. FWIW i don’t think my friend was an amazing teacher from what i’ve heard, he’s still a few years in and told me about how often he has to scream at his classroom which i do not think is effective discipline. this is what i’ve been told. i am not a teacher nor parent w a child in SPS

Yeah my partner is a teacher, and so was my ex. Even my ex, who has, should we say, *limited emotional competency*, knows not to scream at a class. It's not effective.

i remember telling them that any teacher who yelled at us in high school immediately lost our respect. it was baffling that he defended it but not much i could do about it other than say students are just laughing at you internally, getting the teacher to freak out meant nothing when we were all sociopathic teens trying to survive bullying and lack of identity

Poor immigrant kid who went to jr high and high school in Kent. They'll be ok with a caring parent, the internet, and free community college (running start or after HS).

Lol, this was basically my situation growing up. Just add in some severe ADHD.

Found out much later I have it too.

You’d be surprised at 1)how many gifted kids aren’t interested in learning and 2) how many other kids are. It’s not the correlation you think it is

🙄 what are you trying to say? Are you rationalizing the removal of gifted programs in SPS?

Not at all. Replying to this comment “All the students were actually interested in learning” As a teacher of twenty years I’ve never seen a situation where all gifted kids in a room were interested in learning. It’s a misconception.

Yes to this. I was in all the advanced classes in public school here 20 years ago but I hated actual learning. What I wanted to do was get good grades so my parents wouldn’t shame me :)

I work with SPS schools and had a kid in a SPS school. At the building level, they’re dedicated, kind, and caring people who want your kid to do their best and be a decent human being. At the district level, I have no clue what their deal is. I live in a suburban district and I find it’s the same situation with it too: great and caring building staff, and bloated/non-responsive district admin.

We have two kids at Whittier Elementary, one with autism and ADHD. They have both flourished; I've been really delighted with the quality and engagement of the staff there. Agree with others that the district as an administrative entity is an absolute shit-show, though I don't have any other districts to compare to. My sense is that school quality can vary by neighborhood though. So try to triangulate the truth from the responses you get here.

Former teacher here. Ten years on the eastside. All I will say is that SPS isn’t as bad as people say, and eastside districts aren’t as good. Almost every issue people complain about with SPS I experienced on the eastside.

This is the thing that I've seen. There are some concrete differences, like eastside districts having advanced learner programs. But a lot of the issues folks complain about with SPS is just public school in Washington State/King County. I will say the shooting at Garfield a week and a bit ago has shaken me a bit. I know the neighborhood has occasional gun violence. I live there. But a kid being shot and killed at his school is still upsetting.

Re: advanced learner programs even eastside districts have been culling participation even though they haven’t eliminated programs. But yea - the Garfield situation is concerning. I feel for the community and hope it can be turned around to create a safer environment. Those kids deserve it.

This. Moreover, many people think the SPS are bad just because they aren't as 'good' as some Eastside districts.  But some of those Eastside districts are ranked some of the best in the country.  SPS is pretty damn good compared to the average school district in the USA. Especially compared to most innercity school districts. Just because it's not the best, doesn't mean it's bad. 

Grew up on the Eastside and went to Bellevue Public Schools in the 70s and 80s. Sent my kids to SPS. Short answer: Happy with SPS. Liked over 90% of the teachers. Both of my kids went into competitive programs at UW (CS and Industrial Design). Here's the thing about "good schools". As many many other posters have said, a cornerstone to academic success is a decent home environment, a quiet place to study, and family who gives a fig about their kids and what they're up to. That's true everywhere. Somewhat moreso in the US than other countries, but so it goes. Poverty leads to a lot of bad outcomes in terms of home stability, parents having time and energy to pay attention to what their kids are up to, being able to interface with teachers, etc. etc. etc. People can rise up from poverty and do great things, but that's not the way to bet. The magic of the Eastside schools isn't fairy dust in the teacher's lounge, an amazing curriculum from BSD headquarters or anything like that. It's certainly not more money in the classroom. Wanna live in Bellevue? Hope you have two parents with six figure jobs or a trust fund. Otherwise, you ain't there. Affordable housing? Yeah. We'll get right on that. Next week. Totes. "Good schools" is how nice, polite totally not racist Northwesterners say "No poor people". And by poor, there's another adjective I have in mind.

Former educator here. I can't speak to the current quality of SPS schools, but in general private isn't a 1-to-1 "better or worse" situation. Im fact, just due to shear numbers, private schools have an average underperformance compared to public schools. Obviously it depends on a school by school basis. Also, it's worth noting that even more important than schools specifically, is parental involvement, regardless of school. Get to know your teachers and please, please be open to working with them (you have to basically be an expert in your field to be a public school teacher, especially in Washington; yes shit ones get through, but most know what they are doing and do it well). The main benefits of private school tend to be cleaner, better amenities, and (this one is suss, honestly) ideology. If you have an agenda you'd like to push on your kids, find a private school that is built around that. But, remember that a public school education isn't just an education in academics, but a social education as well. Catering to a set of beliefs often naively underexposes kids to a world (and workforce) considerably more diverse than the average home life can offer. If you're a good parent (and most are), the specific school won't make a major difference, honestly. There are schools with prestige behind their names, but they're usually just a reflection of socioeconomic status and are usually more of an indicator of a stable home life, rather than any proof that their education system is inherently better. If you're feeding your kids, keeping them clothed, communicating with them, and listening/adapting to their ever changing needs in a world which demands are different from the world we each grew up in, then your kids will be just fine, no matter what school you send them to. As such, I've always encouraged public school education, but it's understandable to be drawn in by the promise of "better/best" in a private school. Just remember, the "success" of a school is often less of a marker of the internal system and more often a marker of the families that send their kids there. And the fact that you're asking and care is already a great indicator for your kids' future success in life. Teachers are under appreciated, and they also have more expectations placed on them for kids' success than anywhere else. But at the end of the day, it comes down to a very wide variety of things (school, peers, families, extracurriculars, online environment, and other opportunities) Good luck though!

>But, remember that a public school education isn't just an education in academics, but a social education as well. Catering to a set of beliefs often naively underexposes kids to a world (and workforce) considerably more diverse than the average home life can offer. I came here to say this - diversity is a key strength of public and a key weakness of private.

As a parent who has experienced both SPS and private school and is really not a fan of SPS, I can tell you that north end elementary schools are all pretty good as long as your kid doesn’t have any specialized needs (whether it’s advanced learning or IEP) - then it’s a little more hit or miss. Middle school is a good time to get out as it’s SPS’ weak spot. Many private schools over financial aid. SPS admin is all horrendous and it’s exhausting to be lied to by them all the time, but at the elementary level, the majority of parents at least on the north end seem happy with the staff in their school. For middle school, Hamilton has historically been the preferred school. If I was renting, I’d aim to be in that zone.

Meant to also answer your question about violence - wasn’t an issue in elementary school for us but definitely was in middle school.

Which middle school had violence?

We’ve been very happy with our kids’ schools in Queen Anne. They are part of the large bolus of kids of tech migrants during the mid 2010s hiring boom, now moving through the system. There are far fewer kids entering the system now, and therefore the school system predicted to soon have too much capacity. This is why SPS is planning to close some schools. The idea is to cut capital costs and better set up to educate fewer kids on the same budget. It’s a smart move, but poorly explained, which has led to a lot of anxiety. I do feel the math education is subpar, so we send them to math tutoring. It’s a big expense but a lot less than private school. Otherwise, we’re happy with the school system.

Definitely not throwing them to the wolves. There are plenty of nice schools in SPS. Every negative thing I’ve heard has been about the admin and not the teachers or quality. We send our kid to a private school because there are 2x as many teachers per student as the local public elementary and we felt like he would benefit from that. Plus they have a ton of edp, enrichment, and summer camp options through the school that help if you are both working. Not sure if SPS does this stuff, but early release Wednesdays sound like a nightmare for working parents.

Dittto. My son started a sps for kindergarten. He started curious, eager to learn, loved math and reading. By end of kindergarten we discovered that his nature never asked for help from the teacher, he’d just try to get the answers from his pals. In plain, he wasn’t learning. Moved to a private school where someone could check in on him, answer questions without the whole room knowing he asked the “dumb question” and he’s thriving.

You mention Queen Anne. The elementary schools on Queen Anne are good. We were quite happy with Coe. Middle schools aren’t great in Seattle. Hamilton is probably the only good one. High Schools - Lincoln is ok (good by SPS standards). Main problem with it, as well as SPS in general is it’s all focused on lowest common denominator - very tough for your kid to be truly challenged to learn and grow in terms of curriculum. The fact that the graduating class had over 30 students with perfect 4.0 GPAs almost all of whom took the hardest classes they were allowed to enroll in, says a lot about the lack of challenging curriculum.

its nuts to me that there are 3 years of education that are just not great - and there is only middle school that is good.

[удалено]

Running start is a fantastic program. Better than honors or any advanced classes. Students get far more choices to pick from and actually guaranteed college credit.  I far preferred RS to my AP classes. 

What do you mean by damage?

You might be interested in UW early entrance then: https://robinsoncenter.uw.edu/programs/early-entrance-university-of-washington/

Running start is community college courses - not particularly demanding or rigorous.

Um, my multivariable calculus class was plenty rigorous even if it was at the community college. 

Who says this? I have 2 children who are recent grads. Great time in Seattle public schools. I know of 1 incident of student on student violence and it was off campus and after school hours

The reality is if the parents of the other kids care about their kids getting good grades, your child stands a good chance of getting educated. The reason we get worse results for more money in Seattle than Bellevue has nothing to do with the quality of the school, the teachers, or even the quality of the students - it's how much social value is placed on doing well, by a kids parents and peers. So - your kid can get a great education at a number of Seattle public schools, if they're in the right community.

This is a side note regarding suburban schools that may have higher “ratings” than Seattle Public Schools. Even in the wealthiest districts around Seattle Public (Bellevue, Northshore, Mercer Island, Lake Washington) they are having massive funding issues. Northshore for instance has a $26 million dollar budget shortfall for next year. It seems like at a state level there are many funding issues that they are refusing to address. It seems a lot of it is tied to the “school district tax cap” and to the fact that the state of Washington refusing to full fund schools. This is all just to say, all of the schools, except private schools, are struggling as far as I can tell.

Rich kids always moved out of SPS. Honest public schools are what you make of them. They aren't a babysitting service- if that is what you are looking for, pay for it. Public schools run well on parent interaction. Your choice.

Our two children were in a north Seattle Catholic school for K-8. One then went to Seattle Prep and the other went to Ballard for high school. Strongest points for the Catholic schools was that it was a productive learning environment with supportive teachers and very engaged families. I spent quite a bit of time in the classroom over the 15+ years we had a student there. Classroom management and behavior were never a problem. Physical threats and violence were a complete non-issue. Of course they have the advantage of being able to reject challenging or high-need students, which reduces these burdens. Another pro is that Catholic schools are about the lowest cost private option if you don't qualify for aid. The teachers were generally good to great. Ideology was light and generally positive, with a healthy focus on community service and social justice. I did hear of other Catholic schools in the same area/neighborhood where there were leadership issues and ideological zealots where I would not want my children in that environment, so YMMV. Staffing can be nepotistic with many admin and teachers aids staffed from the parent community, not always the greatest. There is a distinct and insular loop of families raising kids in Seattle Catholic schools who then go on to Gonzaga or another Catholic university, and return to put their kids in the same K-12 schools and often get jobs there. I am a big fan of Seattle Prep and Jesuit education values/traditions, but some of the families at that school are there for reasons I did not agree with, and I was always shaking my head at the work the school had to do to try to appease them. But I will stand by my opinion that Seattle Prep is one of the best high schools in the city and probably the whole state. On the other hand, you just have to look east of the lake to see all the public schools who churn out impressive lists of National Merit Scholar Semifinalists each and every year to see what can be possible in public education. There are a lot of complicated reasons behind SPS' issues. Redlining and the de facto segregation of Seattle is a root cause. Historically, bussing played a big role in the shape of education in Seattle. When bussing started there was a blooming of many private schools as families sought alternatives that didn't require 1 to 2 hours a day on a bus across the city. There is also the reality that some motivations for rebelling against bussing were racist. The net effect is a hollowing-out of the public schools with students from families of means and highly capable students being more rare in SPS than is ideal. You want these kids with your kids as potential friends and role models. Our experience at Ballard HS was mostly during covid. Overall it was OK with our child doing well in university now, but there were many experiences we had there that really soured me on SPS. Classroom management is a major distraction with teachers often spending more time managing behavior than teaching. Most of the teachers are very dedicated and great at their job, but in my experience, about 10 - 20% of the teachers there should no longer be teaching. And then there are the tragedies of student deaths from fentanyl and shootings and the presence of gangs in and around the public schools. Our student had a Spanish teacher at Ballard who was absolutely failing when confronted with the need to shift to online remote learning during covid. This was compounded by SPS having just selected a new Spanish textbook. They didn't have enough funding to buy the textbook for all students, so due to equity goals only the schools in the south end (Franklin, Sealth, Garfield, West Seattle...) were issued with the new books for every student. At Ballard and other N Seattle schools there was only one set of textbooks for the classroom (no digital copies), which didn't work at all for remote learning: no student had access to a textbook. The teacher was trying to take photos of their textbook and send the photos to students. But they did this very poorly: pages sideways/upside down, too blurred to read, content cropped off. I offered to buy 3 text books, one for my student and two for anyone else who needed it, and figured if I could recruit 10 other families to do the same, we could solve the problem for our class. Offer rejected. So I dove in and offered to take over the scanning of the textbook for the teacher so the students could at least having something readable. I was just using my $150 Canon multifunction inkjet printer at home, no big deal, but at least I could get the job done correctly. This worked OK but gave me a painful up close look at how ill-equipped this teacher was to adapt to change. I was also very disappointed by how SPS handled the Kevin Wynkoop issues at Ballard, ultimately resulting in the removal of this much-respected and award winning principal, who was one of the key reasons we chose Ballard for our student. I agree that some of his actions in response to these issues were less than ideal, but none of it merited his removal (in my opinion). Pandering to a couple of families and loud voices in the community who blew a few issues completely out of proportion resulted in a leadership vacuum and churn at the school that was very unfortunate during the challenges of covid. I know not everyone agrees with my take on this, but when you get into the details of the specific incidents in question, it was clear to me that perfect was being the enemy of good/great and we lost a great leader during a time of crisis (covid)

It sounds like our kids were at Ballard at the same time. My kid had a pretty great experience at Ballard, but I think the reason why is because he did Running Start and starting junior year almost all his classes were at North Seattle College. Running Start was so great for him.

That's consistent with what I've heard about running start. Our child is very social and didn't want to miss out on that aspect, especially senior year. They said the running start kids were essentially unknown by their peers who remained on campus. I can see how for some kids that could be an advantage! It is nice to have the option to take different paths.

That's 100% true. My son was already tight with his friends, so he got to see them a lot outside of school--but it's definitely not the traditional high school experience. Between COVID and running start, he sure did not spend much time in the Ballard high school building!

I had three kids go thru SPS (two with special needs) and have worked for the district in SpEd for the last eight years. I would agree with others here, that the district itself has been pretty crappy since the 90s but the field staff is overall very good. And if you do have a kid who needs our services, what you will get will be light year beyond what most private schools can or will offer. My brother moved his son out of private and into public a couple years ago because the kid has a variety of issue like dyslexia and ADD and his private school was unable to provide much in the way of help (other than suggesting they hire a tutor, on top of the wildly expensive tuition he can't afford anyway). Since going public, my nephew has flourished with appropriate support and is looking likely to graduate with good enough grades to get into college.

I have 5 kids, one is starting her masters at UW in the fall, one will be a senior at UW in the fall. Both went through the SPS highly capable program. My son will be a senior in high school in the fall. He was failing and i enrolled him in the alternative program (interagency) and he is catching up. My twins will be in 10th grade this fall. One is neurotypical and is doing fine. Her sister has executive function disorder. It took quite a while to get her the accommodations she needed. She is thriving. While I am not a fan of the bureaucracy of the administration, the teachers are good and truly care. My son was a mess after Covid. His intervention specialist never gave up on him. My kids have many friends in private school. They have had similar experiences. Private schools are expensive unless they are affiliated with a church. I know many teachers and principals that send their kids to private school. The teachers union here is very strong and good at getting what they want. Teaching is a thankless job. I appreciate everyone who chooses that profession.

I have a kid going into kindergarten soon and have had the same question. I've asked parents a year ahead of us and gotten this very interesting, sort of, "Actually... We really like it?" like they are sort of surprised to be happy and not sure if they're just supposed to come out and say it because there's all this very public hand-wringing. So: seems like a great sign! I think public school gets a lot of extra scrutiny that private doesn't, and Seattle and WA are deeply flawed in how they prioritize public education funding, which is an incredible moral failing. But also public schools have much higher teacher training standards than private ones, and I've heard plenty of stories of "oops, my kid went to private school and ended up just not learning math," since the privates have less scrutiny. My bottom-line impression: going to private school you'll basically select into a particular group of parents, and select out kids with a lot of needs. But the instruction won't be better per se.

We live in south Seattle and have a kid with ADHD in 2nd grade. We have had great luck at our neighborhood school! Like most schools, not every teacher has been her favorite, but for the most part she is surrounded by supportive, kind adults who want to see her and the other kids succeed. I wouldn't worry about the schools themselves.

We are moving out of the state because of our public school experience this year. Huge gang of bullies singled my kid out and harassed him emotionally and physically online and at school. Teachers and security guards stood by while it happened. Principles gave more credence to the nasty lies and rumors that the bullies were spreading rather than punishing them. In the end it seemed my kid was the one punished the most. No metal detectors at school and at least one of these bullies is known to regularly carry guns, knives, and drugs to school. I am extremely disappointed with the system after this year.

I’m sorry. It’s good that you are able and willing to extract him from the situation.

What you have to worry about with Seattle schools are peers. Schools on the eastside are going to have more active families which means more pressure to succeed. This will greatly influence your kid’s educational outcomes. If you’re surrounded by successful people you’re more likely going to be successful yourself in life. I went from a poorer school to a wealthier one and there was definitely a difference and an adjustment i went through. Not to say i was a bad kid in the poorer school but the standard for success in the richer school was higher. More students wanting to become doctors, more students want to get into UW/ivy leagues, more students taking ap/ib classes, etc. i had to put in summer school to catchup despite being an honor roll student at my old one.

My two kids got great educations from Seattle Public Schools. If I was starting all over again today, I wouldn't hesitate to follow the exact same path.

People generally defend whatever choice they made, meaning since most folks go public, you'll hear "go public" more. Us: artist family with very little money, and our values are super lefty, so we expected to go public. But the schools we had access to (in central/south,) were the worst in the city. It really did feel like we were being told to throw our child into a pit, so we figured we'd see if a private school would give us Financial Aid enough to go. It worked, and we somehow sent two kids all the way through in private school. VERY HAPPY WITH THAT CHOICE. Yes, plenty of downsides along the way - never more than one car, bike commuting for hubs, no vacations, teensy shared housing, thrift stores 4evah 4everything. You need to decide what your family's priorities are, and what your kids need from their schooling. Then go tour some schools (or at least their websites), and get the feel for the difference between the public and private school options in the neighborhoods where you're going to live. We saw the public options for our kids and decided to at least try for private. If you do want to try, remember financial aid runs out fast; early birds get the advantage. Start looking now for entry for Sept '25.

I don’t think so, but then again, I moved from Florida so take that for what you will. The difference between the special education support our daughter received there versus here in Seattle is mind blowing.

Coe and Queen Anne Elementary are both good

We’ve only been in sps for 2 years, and while the funding issues, and communication with the school board has been frustrating, my kid has absolutely loved the experience. Their teachers have been great. The entire school has been wonderful. Every single staff member is completely committed to the kids. I’m also not in any of the neighborhoods that you mentioned. I will say that I’m absolutely terrified about what the school closures will mean for my kid’s school. While my kid’s school might not close, I can foresee with what little info I have to work with, some very large changes heading our way.

Depends on the school and depends on your involvement. My kids went K-12 through SPS. My husband and I, both full-time working parents, were involved in their classrooms, PTSA, any volunteer activities we could. There were parents who didn’t step foot into school, and it just can’t work that way. I was able to observe where some of the problems might lie, $$$$$$, and be part of the solution. I knew who their school friends were, and the problem kids. I can’t imagine just dropping them off. Teachers and administrators had great respect for us as parents, hopefully watched out for our kids. I gained so much respect for many of their teachers. I could keep them out of less desirable classrooms, and try to get them into better ones. All in all I’m satisfied with their 13 years they spent in SPS. Private school wasn’t an option for us. We visited a couple. I was dismayed by the lack of diversity and the seas of white faces and teachers. Diversity in classmates and teachers was a big deal for us.

If you can swing it financially, and as much as the commute would suck, look at Bainbridge Island. It’s a great place to raise a family and the school system is incredible (it’s basically as close to a private school as you can get for a public school system). A lot of parents put up with the commute because of this.

grew up on Bainbridge and can co-sign this. if SPS doesn't work out for my kid (he's starting at Garfield this fall - yikes with all those shootings 😭), I will be shipping him out to the island.

My kid spent one semester in SPS when we moved here. The teachers and folks at the school were lovely and engaged, absolutely. But my kid came from a different city’s public school and she was way ahead of kids in her year in math and writing. So I put her in private school and there she remains.  So - the SPS administration seems like a bunch of idiots, but the educators and principals seem great. It won’t matter for your kid about where they are grade level wise in the same district. 

All the test scores are available online. It really varies by location; the good public schools in Seattle (generally north of downtown) are some of the best in the state while the bad ones (generally south of downtown) are very mediocre.

Seattle real estate and rentals have got so expensive that young families can't afford to live there. So Seattle schools have lost some 30% of the typical student loads. Meanwhile out in the distant suburbs class rooms are overflowing. That's why Seattle has to close and consolidate a third of their schools and Orting, Buckley etc is installing portables

I don't have kids (though I plan to have them here), but a NYT article just listed Seattle as the #3 city in country to raise a family and put our quality of public education as one fo the reasons. So I can't speak on how good our schools are, but comparatively we seem to be doing great

District is a mess, but I'd also say most districts these days appear to be a mess and 99% of the districts out there are significantly underfunded, not just SPS. Marysville is talking about shutting down schools. Bellevue is shutting down schools. The only places that aren't shutting down schools are super small districts where there are literally only 2-5 elementary schools and one high school. We've loved our schools. I would say most teachers in SPS are great and doing all they can. But like all public school districts, your mileage will vary once you add in factors of special education, special needs, IEPs, social-emotional support, etc... We are in north Seattle.

I hear a lot of the comments here about forests and trees, but we lost 10 staff members in 2 months at our SPS elementary and that alone is a red flag. There are 20 schools slated to close, so if you’re set on SPS then don’t get attached to any personalities — the odds of your kid finishing where they start are slim. Big picture? I have 2 twice-exceptional kids and the best thing we ever did for them was leave Washington.

Private school parent here. In my opinion, the two options for a good education are to either pay for private school in Seattle or move over to the east side and enroll in their public schools. It's going to cost you either way unfortunately.

Private school parent who rejected SPS. One of the deciding factors for me was talking with a former SPS teacher and hearing about just how little the district supports their teachers. Expect a roller coaster shitshow environment at least. Does that mean everything about what they will experience is bad? No. Also at the end of the day, there is no depoliticized choice for a school environment in this era of American civic life, so you'll have to ask yourself whether the politics you want your kid exposed to aligns with SPS.

> you'll have to ask yourself whether the politics you want your kid exposed to aligns with SPS. For many parents this specifically means acceptance of non-binary and LGBTQ kids. SPS has pushed inclusivity. At least one parent I have talked to has decided to take their kids to private school because they didn't like that a book about a trans kid was read in class.

This is a bit of a tangent but I honestly do not understand why (centrist/conservative) parents are scared of their children being exposed to other people's (in this case, more liberal) beliefs. Do they think so little of their child's intellect that they fear the child will blindly accept what the parents see as the school's agenda? Do they think so little of their own influence that they believe the school can "indoctrinate" the child into something the family themselves don't believe? Are they too wimpy to have a conversation about "hey, here's what you learned at school but then here's what dad and I think"? We can't "shield" our children from what we see as the opposition's position... shouldn't we just TALK about it? Sheesh.

I’m not a conservative. Used to think I was progressive but seems like I’m center-left now. I’m not scared of my children being exposed to new ideas and others’ beliefs. I’m more concerned that the politics of the day create an incredible amount of noise that they don’t have the toolkit or longitudinal perspective to process / analyze as you suggest, and this also distracts from things we know are important to learn: writing, reading, ‘rithmetic if you will. As an adult I personally have whiplash from figuring out what’s en vogue on the left or right this month versus the previous. In my own job, it’s part of my role as a manager to shield my team from noise across the organization so they can focus and build. So, no, I don’t think it’s appropriate for a 10 year old to be subjected to the raw volatility of contemporary cultural-political discourse.

Thanks so much for this response, actually quite helpful to me

Also a private school parent here. We opted for private elementary (and after) due to (1) the ham handed approach SPS has regarding diversity- and race-related education; and (2) our neighbors’ kids not being able to do math (10 year olds who don’t have mastery over multiplication). This is evidenced by numerous conversations with families and kids around the neighborhood who even go to choice schools. Statistically your kids will be safe in a North Seattle public school. And teachers often suffer from having an over abundance of care for their kids. But as a center-left family with a nuanced relationship with race and intersectionality, I don’t want my kids subject to flavor of the week politics. Our private school has an approach to identity and DEI which focuses on celebrating commonality rather than differences, and they are emphatically neutral on current events. And my kids are set to complete Algebra 1 by grade 6 (or earlier) like I did. This is just not an option with SPS getting rid of gifted/talented tracks. One last note - some mention that SPS is fine for average kids. I hate that idea - kids oftentimes will rise to the level of what’s expected of them. And as a society it’s important for us to have ways to identify above average individuals and invest in them. Removing options for kids to differentiate themselves (I.e., hicap classes) for whatever reason only ensures that you’re going to have average kids. Equity in education is an intellectual dead end - sooner or later the quality of your education will surface, whether in a standardized exam/college admissions or the job market. Look at the college acceptance results across SPS, whether on individual high school websites or https://polarislist.com/. SPS is utterly failing to foster/produce exceptional students.

Curious what school you chose? K parent currently in SPS here, trying to keep abreast of my options.

Not going to out myself, but there are a few elementary schools which seem to punch higher than average on the Seattle side: Meridian, UCDS, SCDS, Evergreen. Believe they all have standardized behavioral testing for admissions.

he sent his kid to “its ok for white people to say the n word sometimes too” elementary

This is totally uncalled for.

It’s how your comment reads

This country is flirting with full-blown fascism and you’re out here saying the people who are teaching your kids should be “emphatically neutral” on current events. That’s… really something.

Yup this right here is what I want my kids to stay away from. My kids’ teachers should not be vamping on what is and is not fascism in elementary school. Just like they shouldn’t be teaching my neighbors’ kids that “black people are poor and we should help them.” Schools should be fostering the ability to build frameworks and engage in assessment and reasoned debate. Not jumping to conclusions.

>what is and is not fascism in elementary school BURY YOUR HEADS IN THE SAND KIDS! Teacher at private school: "... And that concludes our lesson about ducks." Kid: "I saw this bird that walks like a duck and talks like a duck swimming in the pond, was it a duck?" Teacher: "Your parents pay the school lot of money to not identify any specific birds as ducks or geese. God help us all."

Interesting collection of buzz words. Evidenced (when you're referring to something that is anecdotal at best), safer, DEI...oh, and equity. This post indicates that you want to blame public schools but your last paragraph fairly reeks of elitism. Interestingly, private schools perform no better and often at a lower level than public schools. Also, private school have no oversight and no legal requirement that teachers be qualified as, well, teachers. The reason that at SPS is constantly talking about shortfalls is that parents are withdrawing their children from SPS and this means less money from the federal Dept. of Education, which provides a large chunk of funding based on head count. SPS isn't perfect, but no public school district is perfect. One thing to bear in mind is that SPS is an enormous district. Other districts may have one high school, maybe as many as three or four. How many does SPS have? 16 High schools...and all of the associated schools that feed into that, including 64 elementary schools and 23 K-8, and 6-8 middle schools. If we compare that to some of the districts that parents are fleeing to we get Bellevue which has 21 schools, in total, and Issaquah which has 4 high schools, 22 feeders. To go one step further, the wide disparity in income and outside funding in these three districts is huge with Bellevue and Issaquah leading Seattle on a per head basis. This, of course doesn't take property taxes into account. SPS' cut of property taxes, on a dollar/head basis cannot compare to Bellevue, to say nothing of Issaquah. So, not all districts are created equal. This includes diversity, income disparity, age and condition of infrastructure. Moreover, all school boards and central office politics are a shitshow. It's a bunch of disparate people with different agendas, that want money to go to different places to do different things. All the while telling teachers that they have to do more and more with less every year. Of course, some teachers have even less (Seattle) than others (Issaquah). For the record, I'm not an SPS booster. I didn't attend SPS, SPS didn't serve my children terribly well, and I have no love for how they do things at the executive level. That said, they have to do an incredible amount with $15,K+ per student and what they get from their levies and property taxes.

Lots of apologism for SPS here. Which is fine, but I’m not interested that SPS is trying their best with what they have (never mind that $1.2B / 49,000 students in 2023-24 is more like $24K a student, which is getting pretty close to private school tuition). I’m interested more in what the competitive options are since consumers have the ability to choose. To be fair, some private schools aren’t great. Plenty aren’t. But there’s no doubt that some private schools in town (I mentioned a few elementary schools in a separate comment) punch far higher than their public counterparts. To what extent this is selection bias vs quality of institution is a valid discussion, but I’m making the best decision I can given my resources and the lack of a counterfactual.

First, allow me to clarify that the $15k number is from the federal dept of education, not in total. The of the $10K are made of of local and state coffers. You should t view those funds as tuition, that’s akin to viewing public dollars are your own which is a foolish and misleading notion. Private education is not there for the benefit of the student and they have historically provided a similar level of education or less. This is verified through testing, such as SAT, and ACT. The reason that it costs what it costs is that the private institutions still have to pay for a building, staff, and other expenses. Further, private school has no oversight and there is no legal requirement for private schools to hire qualified teachers and to complicate that, they pay less, sometimes significantly less, than public schools. My novel is in support of public education, not SPS and I was attempting to demonstrate why there is a disparity between these districts and that difference is simply money and a smaller district to manage with new or newer building that are paid for by levies and bonds. Levies and bonds require voter approval and that’s tougher to pass in such large areas like Seattle than in wealthier and more educated regions. I didn’t even get into charter schools schools and the disaster that they are that take public funding into a black hole. Shall we discuss homeschooling next? The comparison that can be made between homeschooling and private school is, likewise, profound.

It's strange to judge all public schools because you know one kid who doesn't know their multiplication tables. My 10 year old is a couple of grades ahead in math and is challenged and enjoying it. Even though I don't see the rush to complete Algebra 1 by 6th grade, teachers do differentiate and give kids who want it more rigorous work.

Nah, just take a look at Polaris List. The data suggests SPS isn’t running a competitive college preparatory program.

I've gotta say, that Polaris List really seems like the most useless metric for evaluating schools. The total incoming freshman class size of MIT + Princeton + Harvard is something like 4000 kids and legacy admissions exist. The vast majority of kids will not be attending those three schools regardless of the quality of their education. According to it, the fancy private school I went to is ranked the same as Garfield.

It’s a proxy. If your school isn’t giving their kids a fair shot at attending a top institution on a consistent basis, what are they doing all day long for 200 days a year? And to your point, if you’re paying for a private school that isn’t doing the above, that should prompt a reassessment of your choices.

It's not a proxy at all, that's my point. A narrow focus on these three schools is simply not a useful metric. It's interesting data but it's so far removed from a useful context. The private school I went to has a 100% college acceptance rate with many prestigious schools in the list. Because it's not in these three schools you think it's meaningless? So many kids and people excel in both their academic and post academic lives without going to these three schools. These three schools account for something like 0.1% of the incoming freshman class every year. The other 99.9% is garbage? I don't think so.

No one is saying that the other 99.9% is garbage. And we can debate what the perfect proxy is for a while (yes, Harvard/Princeton/MIT is NE-biased to the max - would be nice to have Stanford on this list too), but please note that non-SPS public high schools seem to do quite well on the list: * Interlake Senior HS: Class size of 392, 14 admits (over 3 years) * Mercer Island High School: Class size of 340, 6 admits * Bellevue High School: Class size of 373, 5 admits * Nikola Tesla: Class size of 116, 4 admits Roosevelt, one of SPS' crown jewels, and in a reasonably wealthy area (i.e., North Seattle), is at 2 admits, with a class size \*greater\* than the 4 schools listed above. What am I missing here?

Not rich. Have only done private schools. Mostly cuz my son is on the spectrum and needs very small class rooms.

I have two kids in SPS. My advice? Run! Run far away! The people who say it's "pretty good , I haven't had many problems" are the idiots that support the BS in SPS and keep voting for it. Of course they don't say it sucks. That would be taking accountability. It sucks so bad. The admin is useless and half of the teacher DGAF. My son asked a teacher to grade a test from two weeks ago. He asked kindly and stated he just wanted to know what he missed so he can study for his final. The teacher (in front of the class) yelled " I Have A LIFE, I DON'T JUST GRADE PAPERS" This is a student that has an A in the class and has never been a problem . Good luck. SPS sucks.

Theyre up there with ATM machines and UPC codes

My sister has a little one entering school. Anyone know what Olympic Hills Elementary is like?

honestly depends on the school. Not all SPS schools are equal, which is something i have a huge gripe with, but it is what it is

My son is about to finish 2nd grade in SPS. In general, we're pretty happy about it. We loved his kindergarten teacher and his second grade teacher. His first grade one, not so much. I'd imagine this happens even at private schools, too.

We have kids at Lincoln, Hamilton and B.F. Day and are mostly happy with them all.

For the long run, if you’re going to be in the the QA/SLU area I would suggest Ballard High over Center School. It’s a longer bus ride, but Ballard has more resources and Center School was already struggling heavily when I went there, from what I heard it hasn’t improved

For our family, SPS has been a good experience. Our son graduated from Roosevelt last year and went to college in CA. Daughter is a sophomore at Lincoln. My brother's family sent their kids to private school after elementary but we believe strongly in the mission of public education.

SPS parent. Kid in title 1 elementary on the south end. Love our school. It is filled with calm and kind staff and lovely kids. If you’re unsure about sending your kid to a SPS, take a tour of your local school!

SPS is underfunded like everyone else in the state, but at least we pass our levies. I’ve been happy with my kids school, but there are definitely discrepancies across the district. The closures are not unique to Seattle, either. These are happening all over the state. SPS is by no means perfect, and has plenty of problems, but “really that bad?” No.

I can't speak for Middle and High School, but my daughter goes to West Woodland Elementary (Ballard) and receives a ton of support there through an IEP for partial deafness, ADHD, and OCD. West Woodland has an amazing team of supportive teachers and there are lot of parent volunteers. It's such a great school and I'm super grateful for resources my daughter has been able to receive. It has truly made a huge difference to her life.

I joined the PTSA for the middle school my youngster attended for 2 years. I concur with many of the other points and comments. I will add two things I believe to be pedagogical errors (1) being able to retake tests and re-do assignments in order to better a grade; and, (2) the notion that homework is discriminatory. Redoing assignments for a better grade certainly does not encourage our youth to bring their best to the table to begin with. That goes away in high school as well, so why permit it in middle school - makes for a rude awakening. Middle school is precisely the time in a child's education that they should begin to learn to be responsible self-directing some out of class work. Parents still have a responsibility to parent, whether or not some do not. Eliminating the work hurts the kids (and if a parent wants to assign extra-curricular work, well that doesn't have a good look for the child's peers). In my capacity on the PTSA, I dealt with the district's accounting folks. They speak a different language and seems as though they make it hard because they set the rules and the school-level folks have to fall in line. Someone said bloated and nonsensical - ditto that. Put the funding into the teachers and staff to support the front of the house.

It’s a mixed bag. We have a high schooler and a boy who just finished grade school. The first couple of years we had a principal who was failing upwards and went to a high school. She was very nice and had great ideas, she just didn’t do any planning or work to make any of the ideas happen. The new principal was way better, pragmatic and delivered on promises. We had high teacher turnover and one of my kids had various substitutes for an entire year for home room, with the first administrator. We are in a low income area so PTA barely exists for that school. Other schools near by have a more gentrification and much more money in their pta budget. This is important because the schools are terribly underfunded. Our pta uses money to help pay for basics like pens and pencils and even to help pay for teacher’s assistants. When I grew up PTA money was used for things like new sports uniforms and equipment and other stuff that was not a necessity but rather niceties. It was a big jump for me to wrap my head around how much the school relies on just a few parents to do so much to help the school. I am a firm believer of public education and think that economic diversity at the schools is imperative. The more people that leave SPS the worse it will get. If all the people who have the ability to chip in and do things for the school all put their kids in private schools the public schools are doomed. Sorry for getting preachy but I’m seeing this happening right in front of me.

Elementary is generally fine, though your kid might have to move schools for the 26-27 school year after many close. But the communities are very sweet, and you will probably move with friends. As discussed above the administration is not great, they are closing many more schools than we have lost kids, which will drive more enrollment loss. Admin is pretty performative; how much this affects your student would vary by school, but a fair number of district initiatives lately are pointed at making sure there is nothing "extra" for advanced students and schools are not allowed to develop interesting programs, everything should just be exactly the same in every classroom across the district. Kind of blah. And the Tema Okun bogeyman stuff actually is taught in SPS, which I roll my eyes at but honestly I get not liking it. I do get irritated to the extent it replaces academic learning, but that seems to be receding a little bit. Some schools have had some antisemitism issues this year, but our high school actually handled that issue very sensitively, I thought. Good and bad. We have a kid in private school now after years of public only, and it is...much better. It is true that nationwide private schools don't do better than public school overall, but that includes a lot of crappy backwards hyper religious private schools. The Catholic ones around here (I think they are mostly normal) and the secular academic focused ones are just better. If you can afford it or get financial aid I'd try for it. We had a kid graduate from an SPS high school last week, and I do regret not moving that one to private instead of finishing at public, seeing the experience their sibling is able to have. You aren't ruining a kid by putting them in public for elementary, but there's a reason the higher you go up the grades the more kids are in private school. It's about 80% of Seattle kids starting K in public school, only 66% in public by 10th grade (after that there is running start so the data is weird).

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Our kids recently completed their education at sps and my wife teaches there. Yes, the district admin is a disaster, so schools live or die on their own. North end elementary are generally great as there are involved parents, although covid damaged that connection. After that there are problems. Some middle schools are fine, but the high schools struggle with toxic levels of progressive ideology and disorganization. It’s very hard to move a kid after middle school as they’ll have their friend group, so I’d look towards suburban schools at the middle school and high school level.

My daughter goes to loyal heights and is in kindergarten this year. She is very advanced and hasn't had any issues with being able to learn things outside the usual K curriculum. The school, teachers and environment have been great. The only thing I dislike is the lack of diversity as the school is mostly white.

> The only thing I dislike is the lack of diversity as the school is mostly white. I guess that's more a function of your neighborhood, and I suspect private schools do worse than SPS on diversity in most areas. If you want diversity, move to the South end or the Central district.

Private schools tend to do better on diversity than north end public schools. They recruit a diverse class because they see it as a selling point.

Interesting, thanks for the info. It's the opposite in the South End where my kids attend SPS. As one of my old neighbors proudly told me, with private school, you're paying for the peer group, not the education. Glad that douche nozzle moved. Edit: grammar

100% true. It's unfortunate but there are no landlords on the list in my neighborhood who take housing vouchers and the area is mostly white and upper middle class. It's also pretty pricey even for rentals. I chose the area for certain aspects which i personally like but we are actually bringing diversity in as one of only ~5 non white kindergarteners in the class (that I've seen). It's just hard for a kid being one of only a few kids to look different but I will say* it hasn't been an issue she hasn't experienced it too negatively. No bullying or violence. ETA: typos

I don’t have experience with SPS, but Point #2 doesn’t mean much. Schools will be closed due to the system being overbuilt for the number of current and expected future students, not necessarily related to funding being tight.

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They are closing small elementary schools with few students. 300+ kids in a school isn’t inherently bad if class sizes are kept at the regulated size and resources are available for all. My understanding is that teachers will be moved to different schools when the smaller ones close.

Sure? Why would there not be scrutiny? You’re welcome to attend the board meetings discussing exactly that.

One thing to bear in mind with this is something where Washington state in general and Seattle specifically are special. First, get two financial terms under your belt. [CapEx](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalexpenditure.asp) and [OpEx](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operating_expense.asp). To summarize, CapEx refers to long term expenditures which add to the value of an enterprise. Usually buildings, heavy equipment, so forth. OpEx refers to what's necessary to keep the show running. Salaries, power bills, gasoline, whatever. In Washington State, OpEx for schools is limited by state law and a series of state court decisions over the years. Effectively, every single public school in the state, whether it sits next to Bill Gates' house or a remote one-room school on the Okanogan gets exactly the same amount of funding per student(\*). Individual districts ***can not*** raise taxes to raise pay, increase head count in classrooms, etc. Meanwhile, there are few limits on CapEx. Seattle is a rich town and we love to pay property taxes for schools in our community. Well, maybe "love" is too strong a word. People don't complain much. Long-term demographic trends and community pressure have left Seattle with a ton of excess school buildings. SPS is reluctant to close schools and reluctant to sell off buildings that aren't needed. Within 2 miles of my house are 4 elementary schools. One is brand new. 3 are pushing 50 years old. One of those is a "temporary" school as buildings get demoed to make new buildings. In (very) lame defense of SPS, they sometimes get spikes in enrollment. Contractions in the local job markets or the stock market makes parents feel less rich and public schools seem not so bad after all. Right now, enrollment is at a low point for a number of reasons. Since SPS is thinking on a 50 year timeline for buildings, they sometimes do things which don't make a lot of sense this week. (\*) There is some variance in funding per school or district due to Title 1 grants for high-poverty schools and a few other corner cases like Special Ed programs and so forth, but really that's about it.

Thanks! I know this is a complex topic, but I appreciate the context. About your last point: how is SpEd funded? I have seen a few people complaining that near 1:1 student teacher ratios are a real financial strain. Is this sentiment crap? My kid (probably) has no special needs, but I can appreciate that everyone benefits when such children get more of their needs met. Complicated topic for sure.

I can't speak to Special Ed. That's a universe in and unto itself. It really just depends on the kid. There are kids that need extra attention who are in smaller classes where the ratios might be 10:1 instead of 13:1. You have medically fragile kids where they may need a full time staffer or more. I've gathered Special Ed requirements are set by state and Federal regulation and Very Bad Things happen when a district does not make their commitments. The district keeps large contingency funds to deal with SpEd funding. In the past issues have come up where schools lose a teacher (because: reasons. Part of the anarchy factory from the Stanford Center downtown you have heard about over and over in this thread) and parents have asked about tapping the substantial contingency funds held by the district. In response, the Stanford Center barks and snaps. Nope. You cannot haz money. Sorry I can't be more helpful on this point. I went through 16 years of SPS between two kids and have friends who are parents all over the Puget Sound region. AMA.

They've been threatening for years to close down smaller schools. Every time they've managed to find a way not to after the parents got very upset and the media did huge pieces on the importance of public schools. Some of their solutions included getting rid of many K-8s, redrawing boundaries, removing some special programs, etc. This year they may find the money or it may finally be time to actually close schools that don't have enough students to be a prudent use of limited funding that they've been threatening to close for years. While huge schools are bad, many of the schools that are likely to close have less than 250 students. If you look at some of the well thought of suburban districts their smallest elementary schools have 300+ students and the largest are over 600. A bigger school allows the district to assign resources like special ed specialists to the school full time or a larger percentage of the time. It allows them to have full time art or music teachers instead of itinerant teachers. It allows more flexibility with things like reading and math groups. Also larger schools give kids a larger potential friend group so its more likely they'll find their people. Class sizes are capped by the state for the most part. Are those caps always 100% adhered to? No. Schools can get exceptions. Are those class size caps too big? Probably at the lower grades. But since the class sizes are capped by the state you'll see the same class sizes in well funded suburban schools as well.

The problem is long festering… Enrollment peaked in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The current system was designed for twice as many students as it has. 

Yeah, and delaying shutting under enrolled school has put us in this situation where 25% of schools will get shuttered all at once. I looked at elementary enrollments in Bellevue, Lake Washington, and Issaquah and compared them to Seattle. Seattle has several elementary schools under or around 200 kids. On the eastside most are 400+. At 200 kids you many only have 1 class per grade in the grades where the state cap is 27 and they can get a waiver or use averages to meet the state requirements. I understand parents like small schools where kids are known by everyone, but two classes around the state limit per grade level seems like a reasonable minimum bar on school sizes.

The problem is School closures are third rail of local school board politics... And multiple generations of SPS school boards and superintendents were unable to come up with closure schemes that were politically acceptable enough to get everyone involved reelected. So the problem was kicked down the road for a couple of decades...

I'm surprised it's only 30% of schools. Seattle has seen a decline of over 50% of children since the 1980s. 

I went to a private school in Seattle until 8th grade, a public Seattle high school, and UW for undergrad and my Masters. Most of my friends went to Seattle public schools. My husband has been teaching at SPS for 8 years so we are intimately familiar with the inner workings (positive and negative) of the district, and our kids will be going to public school.

If you advocate for your kid and are engaged he will be fine. I have a kid in SPS on the south end he’s on a strong college track. Most of his friends are as well.

You’re certainly not going to make it better by not sending your kids there.

This is more about highschool than your situation but, I used to go to Garfield... the nice one. Underfunded and with over 1300 students at the time, there would be mass class ditching (walking out with around 50-100 of my classmates) every period. They barley take attendance, and if you're behind they certainly don't have the resources to catch you up. 5 shootings, 20% of the students I knew did hard drugs (that's only counting people I physically witnessed doing like percs, fent, molly, whatever the fuck a "meth bomb" is). Your potential student will learn a lot about how to be cool in a social environment, and if they get put in advanced courses they really are quite good. If your student is falling behind they will not help, and they will be promoted to GED. Go to private school, or better yet if you're trying to raise a kid get the fuck out of Seattle. Oh PS my little brother and nephews go in the area and while I don't really get to see how everything goes down in a classroom, my mild mannered and polite little brother really wasn't starting fights (yet would come home with bruises and stories about being beat up in elementary school). My nephews probably have something to do with the amount of fights, but the sheer amount of them isn't one sided.

A whole hell of a lot of people attend SPS schools and continue to have successful and fulfilling lives. Your kid could be one more.

Don't put your kids through it. Cut the budget somewhere else and send them to private schools. SPS not great.

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My kid goes to a middle school in the Tukwila school district. We were initially worried when we moved into the neighborhood because the district's reputation / scores wasn't amazing. But as one teacher on here said, if both parents are engaged and involved in a child's education, there's very little to worry about. Also his teachers have been amazing. The curriculum is great. I've been seriously impressed with the type of work they're doing at this grade level. No complaints.