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Eh, at my school all the MBAs tried to minor/double-major in CS/SE. Most of them quit when they realized A) CS majors had work on Fridays* or B) you shouldn't expect to complete assignments in one night.
* The entire college of business took Friday's off. Literally, every business professor. Fridays were a big party day for business students.
Can confirm: business degrees are breezy compared to engineering and also pay way more. You just have to sacrifice part of your soul so that’s a big negative.
Honestly, you just move from engineering to engineering management to get those big pay increases.
Source: currently a lead engineer, moving into engineering management soon.
Not engineering, but my friends' science degrees have *not* led to good careers. A few years ago, three of my most educated friends were looking for work in different disciplines, and not one could land a job in an area with copious research companies, despite their degrees and years of lab experience. One moved across the country, one spent two years reskilling into a manufacturing field, and one just stayed in a really shit job that may or may not have been worse than risking months of being unemployed.
That's what happens when you flood the market with, well, anything really, everyone pushed math science and tech degrees, now they're are too many people with them to be valuable
Maybe no pushing period. Let people be happy and choose in their own instead of thinking they have to live their life by some arbitrary checklist that society has laid on their shoulders.
I mean, you can tell how absurd his position is because he has to make up a degree for people to get mad about.
In actuality, there are very few "useless" degrees. Maybe at present time, STEM has higher earnings, but there is also selection bias because a lot of STEM programs filter people out. Degrees like history and political science end up with a lot of graduates in law, consulting, and other high paying degrees, but also get some default students who simply aren't good students or struggled to keep up with something like engineering.
This is why these people always have to make up a completely fake major to attack. They can't really say, I don't think we should be helping people who majored in history or philosophy, so they love to attack Underwater Basket Weaving. Or in his case, put a lesbian qualifier before it to trigger other conservatives.
But this is literally a fictional major that doesn't exist anywhere. I don't even think it is a class somewhere. At best, they could extend it to Art Majors, but again, that can actually be a perfectly useful degree and only constitutes [4.5% of all college majors](https://www.arts.gov/stories/blog/2017/taking-note-how-about-those-undergraduate-arts-majors).
Even then, this is a bit of a trap. While art majors fall on the [lower side of mid-career median earnings, they are far from the lowest](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-salaries-college-degrees/). In fact, Art History majors earn more on average than more useful sounding majors like Biology, Healthcare Administration, Psychology, Criminal Justice, and Education. And the lowest earning major is Religious studies. Ironic that more conservatives don't argue they don't think any debt should be forgiven for people studying something "useless" like religion.
Lets also not forget that these degrees that are considered "useless" are by no means useless. Culture and the arts are an important part of society. Imagine how dull a society would be if everyone was a STEM major. Are the only people who can be artists, or musicians, or actors supposed to be rich people who can afford to pay for college?
Arts degrees aren't even for people to just be artists or musicians or actors. I have three degrees in theatre and while I have continued to pursue theatre and teaching theatre *most* of my theatre friends from college have ended up in management positions at some pretty big, prestigious companies simply because they understand how to adapt and how to be personable.
No one needs a degree to be an artist, it can even be a detriment sometimes, but an arts degree is amazingly versatile in every day life.
The trouble with extremely specialized degrees, and why some people have trouble earning with them, is that the narrow band of skills that they learn simply does not translate. If you go to school to be a specific type of engineer and you're not absolutely great at what you do you *might* find it harder to get that specialized job.
At the end of the day any BA or BS degree states to a company that this person can handle projects, timelines, some form of stress associated with work, and in currently can work with people presenting different backgrounds, ideas, etc. In a diplomatic fair way.
There is a class at Smith called “Underwater Basket Weaving.” It’s a crafts class, it’s not a major, and weaving in water is a real skill. But it seems to stick around as the joke punchline…
Idk about that. My husband has an engineering degree and I have a psych degree and make more than him.
Just because someone has a “good degree” doesn’t mean we aren’t still out here struggling. Shit is hard.
(Also- not defending this asshat in OP’s post. He’s a fucking idiot.)
Engineering seems to attract assholes for some reason. Not that every engineer is an asshole. There just seems to be more of them in that field. So this post isn't directed at the cool people who are engineers. And if you are posting in this sub you are probably one of the cool ones.
Possibly because students are often hyped up with how smart you supposedly have to be to do engineering. Same thing with maths/physics and the like. Being told you're very smart and you'll be rich constantly, as colleges tend to do in these fields particularly even if that's not necessarily true, does a number on a young person's ego.
>He's just mad bc he thinks anything other than engineering isn't worth studying.
Underwater lesbian basket weaving sounds like a really complicated egenieering problem. If anything the people on that course will be better educated and more capable than him.
*"We shouldn't be funding useless education like coloring and recess. These kindergartener's should be taking engineering and programming or they need to stop mooching!!!"* /s
I've actually seen that sentiment expressed. Here in Scotland there are a certain amount of free childcare hours per week. It was brought in or increased recently, I can't remember which.
The sheer volume of people commenting on posts and articles about it saying things like "I never had help with my kids, why am I paying for theirs?!" and "I stayed at home with my children, why are these modern girls getting help to neglect theirs?!" was mind-boggling. If they didn't have it, no one else deserves it, according to these arseholes.
Why is no one helping me pay off the debt I don't have?
Next you're going to tell me I can't write off the interest on my mortgage just because the house is paid off!
It's like how they CAN make more comfortable airplanes with more room, but they don't. Because if they start replacing planes, there will be RIOTS about how some people get nicer planes and others don't. And since no airline can replace ALL the planes at the same time, they just...don't change things ever.
Lots of small imcremental improvements COULD be made but won't be because people will get mad at others having a better time than them. We're selfish creatures, and often more concerned with being "ahead" of others than in improving everyones lives.
And what's with this free schools bs. I don't have school aged children! And they've made it compulsory?! Talk about monopolistic behavior. Is Biden doing this to ruin the economy?
You joke, but I’ve seen people on my NextDoor bitch about paying property taxes in Texas because their kids are grown and no longer in school and/or they didn’t go to the schools in this district because they moved after the kids left the house. It’s that lovely fuck you, I got mine mentality that so many people seem to suffer from.
And it almost always come from the people whose kids attended public school and are grown. I’ve not ever heard it from someone without kids (although I’m sure some exist.)
Have yet to see a school offer a degree in "basket weaving." I'm sure it's an elective at some schools, but I haven't even seen that. You'd think every liberal arts school offers this major, the way conservatives talk about it.
It's from the proud conservative tradition of minimizing a cultural activity of an oppressed minority and using it as a pejorative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater\_basket\_weaving
Not a damn thing wrong with learning how to weave baskets btw. I wish I knew how to whip up containers out of shit laying around when I'm camping or something. And underwater too, that's pretty cool.
Very cool how they made seemingly useless dried willow parts into useful baskets by soaking them in water. You’d think conservatives would admire that kind of resourcefulness.
Also sectarianism is generally considered a better term for this as tribalism has connotation towards indigenous groups who frankly don't need to be associated with shitty conservatives
They never put any actual critical thinking to what they say. They just parrot what conservatives up the food chain say without understanding the words themselves... much like an actual parrot.
A lot lol so I finally broke and signed up. Managed to fail despite trying my hardest and paying for tons of auxiliary time. Apparently my hands are stupid. So now I've got student loan debt without anything to show for it lol
I've decided I actually do want to learn how to weave baskets and plan on getting some materials and trying to learn before too much longer. It seems really fun, and unlike some other forms of art, has a very practical purpose.
And if I had the power, I would absolutely create a legit underwater basket weaving course. It'd be silly, but lots of fun. =p
It's definitely practical, for sure. I never said it's a useless skill to learn, just that not many liberal arts schools offer it, contrary to what the idiot in the original article thinks.
I figured lol.
This is Reddit though, I could say the sky is blue and someone would comment "umackshully the sky is cerulean." So I apologize for being pre-emptive.
The underwater part isn’t so silly once you learn that the material has to stay wet to be woven. Morons with too much money pay big bucks for hand woven goods.
Yeah, but usually it is just the material underwater. Not the person. Though I'm imagining a bunch of underwater with snorkels just sitting there weaving. Sounds fun. :p
It's actually rather difficult and tedious. Not saying this to discourage you, I just always twitch about the insult as my mom has woven baskets for over twenty years and it's *not* easy.
The course offered in the 1980s wasn’t even a credit course, it was just people learning for learnings sake (the horror), and the scuba school that offers it seems to be teaching scuba skills with underwater control and dexterity than really caring about the weaving itself.
My mother in law was a scuba instructor. And she loved to incorporate weird activities into her underwater classes. A way to get people accustomed to doing activities while breathing on a tank.
So we actually did have underwater basket weaving classes!
We also had underwater pumpkin carving contests and sign language classes for communicating underwater.
The basket is underwater, not the weaver. Helps keep the reeds from breaking as you weave the basket.
Thanks, Boy Scouts!
Edit: Although during hot summers I would definitely be down to put on a snorkel and make baskets in a pool!
_ahem_ akkshually its underwater LESBIAN basket weaving, you homophone 😤
Cant be an r/Conservative post without shoving “the gay agenda” where its not necessary, now can it
TIL: Underwater Basket Weaving is a trademark of the US Scuba Center Inc., which offers a specialty class designed to improve or more fully enjoy diving skills from which participants can "take home a memorable souvenir.
Honestly, not sure if yall have looked into it but I've been decorating my apartment and handwoven baskets are expensive af but also incredibly beautiful. Wanted one still, so I bought a roll of seagrass rope on Amazon and... turns out basket weaving is REALLY hard.
My university offered a single class on it over a spring weekend. I paid $15, learned how to weave baskets at the campus pool, did a mock graduation, and got a sweet diploma that I still have framed over my office desk haha
We learned basket weaving in Boy Scouts. It's a good survival skill if you are stranded somewhere. You'd think conservatives would be pro basket weaving.
We did prayers during our weekend camping trips. They were nominally non-denominational, though clearly Christian in theme, and attendance was not optional. I butted heads with several of the adult troop leaders over my atheism, and while it wasn’t the reason I left before getting Eagle, I suspect it would have been an issue had I chosen to seriously pursue it.
I remember distinctly during one of the PRBs - reviews with adult leaders to make sure you’re ready to advance to the next rank - they asked which of the twelve principles of scouting I struggled most with. I gave what I thought would be a reasoned answer - “A Scout is Reverent”. I said that, as an atheist, obviously I couldn’t actually be faithful, so I had chosen to interpret it as being respectful of all faiths.
The leaders were not very happy with that answer. It was actually kind of a wake up call, the first time I’d ever received real pushback for my lack of religion. I saw their *valuation of me as a person* drop in real time. It was so jarring and uncomfortable that it’s still hard to reconcile the good times I had as a scout with just how awful that experience was.
My troop was an Eagle mill. We had about six to twelve kids make Eagle every year so of course not all of them were religious. The troop had an adult leader that handled the "letter of recommendation from a religious leader" for kids who didn't actively participate in organized religion. You'd have a conversation with him to make sure that you had a sufficient understanding of faith and religion and what it meant to you. I'm not religious at all so I tried to bullshit my way through. I was told to come back when I had a better answer. I suspect that if I had been honest and gave actual well-considered reasons for my atheism that I would have passed.
My troop was mostly made up of religious people, but religion was never a part of scouting*, like we never prayed as a group or anything like that
*Well, except for when we’d recite the Scout’s Oath: “On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight”
You have to remember that conservatives are mostly people who weren't bright enough to go to college themselves, so diminishing other people's educations by calling their degrees useless is a way of compensating for their own feelings of inadequacy.
I'm from a liberal arts school called The Evergreen State College and they pride themselves in working with the Native tribes to teach a program that goes into Native history and traditions. The conservatives always love to shit on the school and make jokes similar to the 'lesbian underwater basket weaving degree's
Racist misogynist homophobes, what's new?
This is the common tripe of many conservatives, in particular working class conservatives. Because they didn't go to college, they tell themselves that actually, college is a huge waste of time and you learn nothing.
While there are absolutely degrees that can get you nowhere, good luck being a doctor, scientist, lawyer, engineer, or exec without any college training.
Because they need to make up something ridiculous and keep repeating it like it's an actual thing to convince their base it is available at every hippie liberal college, and justify their view that student loan forgiveness is bad because if there are some people out there who get silly degrees they made up, nobody should be forgiven...
Nobody should be forgiven... hey wait a second.
Underwater basket weaving has been a silly trope for decades now to mean anything frivolous. A little cliched but I don't mind it.
My question is why this guy made it "lesbian". I mean, I know the answer, but still.
I mean, weaving the basket underwater makes the reeds more supple and easier to bend into shape. When dried, the wood retains the woven shape. Honestly it's better than dry basket weaving...
Why do people not realize that helping the poor doesn't magically make prices go up? Companies see "poor people might not be quite as poor" in the headlines and they jack their shit up. That is literally it. The govt isn't "printing money" it is taking money from one thing and putting it into another, Jesus christ.
Maybe he should've majored in underwater lesbian basket weaving because if he's an engineer who doesn't understand the simple concept of capitalism, I fear for whatever project he's on. Clearly his fee fees are hurt
A vast majority of the population not knowing the concept of capitalism deeper than, make money -> buy stuff, is imo the reason everything is so shit rn.
>Why do people not realize that helping the poor doesn't magically make prices go up? Companies see "poor people might not be quite as poor" in the headlines and they jack their shit up. That is literally it. The govt isn't "printing money" it is taking money from one thing and putting it into another, Jesus christ.
Its the theory of money supply. The idea that if the government injects cash into the economy, it causes inflation because there is more money than goods to buy.
Complete horseshit of course to blame poor people for that, when this theory itself makes it clear that the real cause is the shortage of goods, its supply side. Poor people are more likely to spend the extra money on bills and essentials, if there is a supply shortage on such things, then there is already a grave problem.
It's all made worse by companies that use crisis as an opportunity to raise prices.
Love, Death, and Robots (great show) has a line in S3E1 about how our downfall was due to our focus on personal wealth, short term gains, and capitalism as opposed to sustainability and the future generations.
Slowing ourselves down is gunna be tough at this point. There's SO many people that it will be very hard to fund sustainable habitation on the planet. We keep letting currency dictate our world versus practical ideas and the overall health of our ecosystems and living conditions.
I guarantee you the Medical Assistant, Vet Tech, or Pharmacy Assistant, etc, etc whose higher education you're shitting on is going to do a fuckload more for the world than you and whatever fucking app you end up coding for, as my friends in tech are only too happy to agree.
I swear the White collar world is so full of these self masturbating asshats.
Who does all the work? The technicians. Who gets all the credit and money? The asshats.
Was talking with some computer guy yesterday and he said something about how a mac "couldn't be used for real work."
I mentioned that I had used them for my work (cancer research), my roommate used it for his AV work (marketing), and my girlfriend used it for modeling runs in her PhD research.
His response: "That's all nonsense hobby and school kid stuff."
Soo... people paying their bills doing something is "hobby and school kid stuff," gotcha, gotcha.
The computer guy you were talking to is wrong, anyway. Modern Macs are Unix based (since 2007) and work very much like Linux boxes under the hood.
Honestly, for modern programming the OS is almost irrelevant because so much has been abstracted or moved into the cloud, so it’s mostly just personal preference these days unless you’re working with legacy or specialized software/hardware.
TL/DR: dude was just being a pretentious twit.
>I swear the White collar world is so full of these self masturbating asshats.
Been blue collar for over a decade. Do you have any idea how often I have to fix things designed by some salaried engineer who sits at a desk all day?
Can confirm. King of the Hill taught me that basket weaving is a hardcore skill. But holy shit, underwater lesbian basket weaving? SEAL Team Six, right there.
It sounds very complicated, and I have a lot of questions! How can you tell if a basket is a lesbian? Can a lesbian basket only be weaved underwater? Or are the baskets made by lesbians who live underwater? Can I, as a bisexual woman, enter this profession? If so, would I have to stay only half-submerged at all times?
As an Electrical Engineer, I am getting really fucking sick of how often "engineering" is thrown out as some important degree. It's a fucking four year degree and most engineering jobs can literally be done by a trained monkey.
I learned web development over the course of 18 weeks. I'm a senior developer now. Anybody can do this fucking job, we're not gods, most of us aren't even that smart.
As someone who actually has made parts that go into planes. The "engineers" that have such a distate for the liberal arts part of their education are often the worst communicators(bad technical writing skills)and have near zero imagination to actually solve problems.
Nothing is worse than working with Engineers that don't have critical thinking skills beyond their spreadsheets.
Tech bro, can confirm. I make 6 figures to make some rich bastards even richer. I’d be happy making a comfortable living making the world a better place through like, carbon capture or something like that, but turns out, you make a lot more money by building a platform for JP Morgan to do stock trading stuff.
Former vet tech here w a 10k debt - thank you 👏 we’ve saved countless animal lives many of which are owned by d-bags like the OOP they come to us crying to help save their pet
Forgiving debt is not giving out $10k checks. No money changes hands. No one is paying that debt, it just disappears. The only way this will effect the economy is in people being able to either drop payments or lower payments and put that money somewhere else.
For all intents and purposes, for the economy, it allows it to continue to recover i nthe face of global inflation. Student loan payments are paused now. That monthly cash flow has not been a required thing for two and a half years. People have adjusted to this new normal, and are still suffering because of inflation and other factors.
At best, it will cushion an economic depression a little when the student loan payments do eventually kick back in because either the monthly owed balance will be lower for some, or the number of payments left in their plan is reduced, however that gets worked out.
These people make no sense to me.
Even in their fictional bs world.
If you really think that underwater lesbian basket weaving degree is the shits, go and get one. No one forced you to get an engineering degree. Presumably, you did so because you a) liked the discipline and b) felt it would give you a better advantage in the workforce.
How does making education cheaper for everyone negate either of those? It doesn't!
Even if "everything got more expensive" (it won't, but let's just play the game), you'd still likely have a degree in a discipline you think is more enjoyable and more valuable. So your wages, too, should go up to combat the inflation, right? Or are your skills not valuable enough to warrant that baseline raise?
It is THE conservative mindset. "Well I had to work to get my $1000 down payment for my 2 story house, so quit complaining as you struggle to pay for existing"
The actual insanity is this person paid down their debt due to government assistance, and now they're angry that other people will get government assistance.
Fucking conservatism in a nutshell.
But here comes the hot take. Yes, you should also get that $10,000 check and if the left was in charge you would.
Hate to say it, because that really is an unfortunate situation, but Biden & the democrats have been talking seriously about canceling student debt since the primaries in 2019, so if you decided to pay it off in 2020, that’s kind of on you
Honestly... When payments/interest froze, a lot of people were suggesting you just put the money in some sort of savings that could accrue interest so that if payments resumed and no relief came, you'd at least be able to do one big payment before interest kicked back in. I kinda figured this would happen one way or another and had other debt (car/credit cards) to focus on so I worked on those.
Edit: You can [get a refund on any payments you made after the deferment began.](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/covid-19/payment-pause-zero-interest)
>You can get a refund for any payment (including auto-debit payments) you make during the payment pause (beginning March 13, 2020). Contact your loan servicer to request that your payment be refunded.
According to WaPo, if you voluntarily paid during the 0% interest period starting March 2020, you can apply to have those payments refunded, so this guy will get his handout regardless.
For real. We refinanced our house in 2021 and opted to roll a few other loans into it to consolidate and I very deliberately did not roll in my federal student loans. I would definitely be feeling pretty stupid about now if I had.
My question is what even is lesbian underwater basket weaving? Is it a degree only for lesbians? Can anyone do it but the baskets are made special for lesbians? Do the baskets have lesbian-style influences?
> while my engineering degree gets spit on
Biden: here's some student debt relief
This redditor: why are you disrespecting me?
This redditor has a problem with debt relief only because they don't think they're getting anything out of it. Amazing. Smart enough to get an engineering degree, too stupid to understand how they benefit from other people getting debt relief - not to mention their completely missing sense of empathy.
If you paid off your student loans during an interest rate freeze while a candidate was actively campaign on loan forgiveness- the joke is on you buddy.
Education just needs to be free. End stop.
Also, we need to not make unnecessary degrees requirements or decision factors for employment.
This guy is an ass, but he's not wrong that we shouldn't expect relatively lucrative fields be uniquely saddled with student debt.
But it does mean they will be less lucrative, since the student loans are allegedly factored in.
>Education just needs to be free.
Ope, sorry, we're doing the opposite!
20 years from now school kids will be taught that all those kids their age that are out picking berries all day used to go to something called "public school" until the god emperor helped rid America of that corruption.
Now I know we are dunking on the dumbass but if anyone has made payments to your student loans after March 13 2020. You can get them refunded all the way up until now by contacting your loan provider
More specific details [Link here](https://www.studentloanplanner.com/federal-student-loan-refund/#Federal_student_loan_refund_eligibility)
Thanks /u/FlyHighCrue for posting on r/SelfAwareWolves! Please reply to this comment with an explanation about how this post fits r/SelfAwareWolves and have an excellent day! *To r/SelfAwarewolves commenters*: As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion. In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any advocating or wishing death/physical harm, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. **If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SelfAwarewolves) if you have any questions or concerns.*
THINGS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO GET BETTER NOW I DON'T NEED HELP
(aside from the help I got to pay off my loans in the first place...)
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Ive met a few folks that got engineering degrees that couldn't hack it as engineers. All the downsides with none of the up.
My university's business school was full of former engineering majors.
That's also because there is a ceiling for your income with a bachelor's in engineering. You can get paid a lot more with an MBA
Eh, at my school all the MBAs tried to minor/double-major in CS/SE. Most of them quit when they realized A) CS majors had work on Fridays* or B) you shouldn't expect to complete assignments in one night. * The entire college of business took Friday's off. Literally, every business professor. Fridays were a big party day for business students.
Can confirm: business degrees are breezy compared to engineering and also pay way more. You just have to sacrifice part of your soul so that’s a big negative.
ONLY IF YOU WANT YOUR SOUL!! WOOOOOOOOO!!!
Can confirm, haven’t seen or heard from my soul since business stats midterm but retired at 34.
Honestly, you just move from engineering to engineering management to get those big pay increases. Source: currently a lead engineer, moving into engineering management soon.
Not engineering, but my friends' science degrees have *not* led to good careers. A few years ago, three of my most educated friends were looking for work in different disciplines, and not one could land a job in an area with copious research companies, despite their degrees and years of lab experience. One moved across the country, one spent two years reskilling into a manufacturing field, and one just stayed in a really shit job that may or may not have been worse than risking months of being unemployed.
Classic wrong degree choice. Lesbian underwater basket weaving is where the money is.
The reverse of a dick move?
Only if you also have a minor in underwater videography and are willing to fist.
That's what happens when you flood the market with, well, anything really, everyone pushed math science and tech degrees, now they're are too many people with them to be valuable
But hey, if we all became plumbers and welders then certainly those job markets won’t become saturated and devalued as a career.
Maybe no pushing period. Let people be happy and choose in their own instead of thinking they have to live their life by some arbitrary checklist that society has laid on their shoulders.
I have a biochem degree. I am an interior designer.
I’m a chemist, but I have no chance of promotion and am working on teaching myself business analysis Instead to get out of the lab.
They do funnel a lot of kids into it... It is absolutely not for everyone. It's tedious and failure can result in major deaths and property damage.
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Did you know vending machines kill more people a year than sharks? You're practically the god of death.
I don't think there are a lot of vending machines in the sea that could kill a shark.
I mean, you can tell how absurd his position is because he has to make up a degree for people to get mad about. In actuality, there are very few "useless" degrees. Maybe at present time, STEM has higher earnings, but there is also selection bias because a lot of STEM programs filter people out. Degrees like history and political science end up with a lot of graduates in law, consulting, and other high paying degrees, but also get some default students who simply aren't good students or struggled to keep up with something like engineering. This is why these people always have to make up a completely fake major to attack. They can't really say, I don't think we should be helping people who majored in history or philosophy, so they love to attack Underwater Basket Weaving. Or in his case, put a lesbian qualifier before it to trigger other conservatives. But this is literally a fictional major that doesn't exist anywhere. I don't even think it is a class somewhere. At best, they could extend it to Art Majors, but again, that can actually be a perfectly useful degree and only constitutes [4.5% of all college majors](https://www.arts.gov/stories/blog/2017/taking-note-how-about-those-undergraduate-arts-majors). Even then, this is a bit of a trap. While art majors fall on the [lower side of mid-career median earnings, they are far from the lowest](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-salaries-college-degrees/). In fact, Art History majors earn more on average than more useful sounding majors like Biology, Healthcare Administration, Psychology, Criminal Justice, and Education. And the lowest earning major is Religious studies. Ironic that more conservatives don't argue they don't think any debt should be forgiven for people studying something "useless" like religion.
"Art history majors earn more than biology majors" *cries in biology student who's not good enough for art*
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Lets also not forget that these degrees that are considered "useless" are by no means useless. Culture and the arts are an important part of society. Imagine how dull a society would be if everyone was a STEM major. Are the only people who can be artists, or musicians, or actors supposed to be rich people who can afford to pay for college?
Arts degrees aren't even for people to just be artists or musicians or actors. I have three degrees in theatre and while I have continued to pursue theatre and teaching theatre *most* of my theatre friends from college have ended up in management positions at some pretty big, prestigious companies simply because they understand how to adapt and how to be personable. No one needs a degree to be an artist, it can even be a detriment sometimes, but an arts degree is amazingly versatile in every day life. The trouble with extremely specialized degrees, and why some people have trouble earning with them, is that the narrow band of skills that they learn simply does not translate. If you go to school to be a specific type of engineer and you're not absolutely great at what you do you *might* find it harder to get that specialized job.
At the end of the day any BA or BS degree states to a company that this person can handle projects, timelines, some form of stress associated with work, and in currently can work with people presenting different backgrounds, ideas, etc. In a diplomatic fair way.
This. Humanities degrees may not shunt people into specialized careers, but they are a boon to anyone that has to work with humans.
There is a class at Smith called “Underwater Basket Weaving.” It’s a crafts class, it’s not a major, and weaving in water is a real skill. But it seems to stick around as the joke punchline…
Idk about that. My husband has an engineering degree and I have a psych degree and make more than him. Just because someone has a “good degree” doesn’t mean we aren’t still out here struggling. Shit is hard. (Also- not defending this asshat in OP’s post. He’s a fucking idiot.)
Has he considered switching careers to lesbian underwater basket weaving?
You know, he’s got the underwater part down, but he’s working on implementing the lesbian aspect. He wants to ensure his resume is in tip top shape
He should take out 10k in student loans to get a top notch degree. also, good luck with the grind
In fairness, only a few people need to hire an engineer. On the other hand we can hardly move for all the crazy people out here 😀
Not all the crazies realize they need help though. A giant untapped market there.
Old joke: You know how to tell if someone is an engineer? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
Engineering seems to attract assholes for some reason. Not that every engineer is an asshole. There just seems to be more of them in that field. So this post isn't directed at the cool people who are engineers. And if you are posting in this sub you are probably one of the cool ones.
Possibly because students are often hyped up with how smart you supposedly have to be to do engineering. Same thing with maths/physics and the like. Being told you're very smart and you'll be rich constantly, as colleges tend to do in these fields particularly even if that's not necessarily true, does a number on a young person's ego.
>He's just mad bc he thinks anything other than engineering isn't worth studying. Underwater lesbian basket weaving sounds like a really complicated egenieering problem. If anything the people on that course will be better educated and more capable than him.
A fair amount of STEM people do think that.
My kids are out of kindergarten. Abolish childcare!
*"We shouldn't be funding useless education like coloring and recess. These kindergartener's should be taking engineering and programming or they need to stop mooching!!!"* /s
I've actually seen that sentiment expressed. Here in Scotland there are a certain amount of free childcare hours per week. It was brought in or increased recently, I can't remember which. The sheer volume of people commenting on posts and articles about it saying things like "I never had help with my kids, why am I paying for theirs?!" and "I stayed at home with my children, why are these modern girls getting help to neglect theirs?!" was mind-boggling. If they didn't have it, no one else deserves it, according to these arseholes.
Why is no one helping me pay off the debt I don't have? Next you're going to tell me I can't write off the interest on my mortgage just because the house is paid off!
I lol'd at the mortgage. WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE HOMEOWNERS WITH HOUSES PAID OFF?
I want money back cause the mortgage interest rates went down after I got my loan!! I'm gonna hold my breath until I get it!
IF I DONT GET A CHECK IT MEANS MY DEGREE IS BEING SPIT ON
It's like how they CAN make more comfortable airplanes with more room, but they don't. Because if they start replacing planes, there will be RIOTS about how some people get nicer planes and others don't. And since no airline can replace ALL the planes at the same time, they just...don't change things ever. Lots of small imcremental improvements COULD be made but won't be because people will get mad at others having a better time than them. We're selfish creatures, and often more concerned with being "ahead" of others than in improving everyones lives.
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Ugh why can't I get hand outs that I clearly don't need.
And what's with this free schools bs. I don't have school aged children! And they've made it compulsory?! Talk about monopolistic behavior. Is Biden doing this to ruin the economy?
You joke, but I’ve seen people on my NextDoor bitch about paying property taxes in Texas because their kids are grown and no longer in school and/or they didn’t go to the schools in this district because they moved after the kids left the house. It’s that lovely fuck you, I got mine mentality that so many people seem to suffer from.
And it almost always come from the people whose kids attended public school and are grown. I’ve not ever heard it from someone without kids (although I’m sure some exist.)
His greed battling his hatred of helping the poor
Have yet to see a school offer a degree in "basket weaving." I'm sure it's an elective at some schools, but I haven't even seen that. You'd think every liberal arts school offers this major, the way conservatives talk about it.
It's from the proud conservative tradition of minimizing a cultural activity of an oppressed minority and using it as a pejorative. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater\_basket\_weaving
Not a damn thing wrong with learning how to weave baskets btw. I wish I knew how to whip up containers out of shit laying around when I'm camping or something. And underwater too, that's pretty cool.
Very cool how they made seemingly useless dried willow parts into useful baskets by soaking them in water. You’d think conservatives would admire that kind of resourcefulness.
It's associated with "liberals" so to them it's bad. No integrity with them, just tribalism.
Also sectarianism is generally considered a better term for this as tribalism has connotation towards indigenous groups who frankly don't need to be associated with shitty conservatives
They never put any actual critical thinking to what they say. They just parrot what conservatives up the food chain say without understanding the words themselves... much like an actual parrot.
It's the same reason that being able to fix a car is a desirable trait but knowing how to sew is useless. (For a man)
Guy I knew in high school, his family made baskets, had a small company and everything. They did well with it.
I could see that. Hell it's a trade like any other, right? And how often do you hear "yoU ShOuLd HaVe DoNe TrAdE SchOol?"
A lot lol so I finally broke and signed up. Managed to fail despite trying my hardest and paying for tons of auxiliary time. Apparently my hands are stupid. So now I've got student loan debt without anything to show for it lol
I wonder what they would say if someone said they *did* go to trade school -- for basket weaving.
American manufacturing! Adding value to raw materials. Producing useful and desirable items with one's know how. I think everyone can get behind that.
I've decided I actually do want to learn how to weave baskets and plan on getting some materials and trying to learn before too much longer. It seems really fun, and unlike some other forms of art, has a very practical purpose. And if I had the power, I would absolutely create a legit underwater basket weaving course. It'd be silly, but lots of fun. =p
It's definitely practical, for sure. I never said it's a useless skill to learn, just that not many liberal arts schools offer it, contrary to what the idiot in the original article thinks.
>I never said it's a useless skill to learn Just FYI, I'm agreeing with you, not arguing. ;)
I figured lol. This is Reddit though, I could say the sky is blue and someone would comment "umackshully the sky is cerulean." So I apologize for being pre-emptive.
The underwater part isn’t so silly once you learn that the material has to stay wet to be woven. Morons with too much money pay big bucks for hand woven goods.
Yeah, but usually it is just the material underwater. Not the person. Though I'm imagining a bunch of underwater with snorkels just sitting there weaving. Sounds fun. :p
It's actually rather difficult and tedious. Not saying this to discourage you, I just always twitch about the insult as my mom has woven baskets for over twenty years and it's *not* easy.
The course offered in the 1980s wasn’t even a credit course, it was just people learning for learnings sake (the horror), and the scuba school that offers it seems to be teaching scuba skills with underwater control and dexterity than really caring about the weaving itself.
Sounds like a good step toward becoming an underwater welder.
My mother in law was a scuba instructor. And she loved to incorporate weird activities into her underwater classes. A way to get people accustomed to doing activities while breathing on a tank. So we actually did have underwater basket weaving classes! We also had underwater pumpkin carving contests and sign language classes for communicating underwater.
The basket is underwater, not the weaver. Helps keep the reeds from breaking as you weave the basket. Thanks, Boy Scouts! Edit: Although during hot summers I would definitely be down to put on a snorkel and make baskets in a pool!
Of course he had to crowbar in "lesbian" to make it extra scary.
Nothing threatens an incel more than the idea of a woman having sex with somebody other than a man. Unless they can watch.
_ahem_ akkshually its underwater LESBIAN basket weaving, you homophone 😤 Cant be an r/Conservative post without shoving “the gay agenda” where its not necessary, now can it
Wait so the lesbians are underwater, or the baskets are?
Everyone’s underwater coz climate change fked up the sea levels
The baskets are lesbian
I think they're weaving lesbian baskets underwater so both the baskets and the lesbians are under water
But don't forget that the GOP are definitely OK with gay people
TIL: Underwater Basket Weaving is a trademark of the US Scuba Center Inc., which offers a specialty class designed to improve or more fully enjoy diving skills from which participants can "take home a memorable souvenir.
Also had no idea there was a racial element to this, but I'm not surprised.
Honestly, not sure if yall have looked into it but I've been decorating my apartment and handwoven baskets are expensive af but also incredibly beautiful. Wanted one still, so I bought a roll of seagrass rope on Amazon and... turns out basket weaving is REALLY hard.
And this dude had to add a little homophobia to it too, just to ensure he looked like a complete asshole.
My university offered a single class on it over a spring weekend. I paid $15, learned how to weave baskets at the campus pool, did a mock graduation, and got a sweet diploma that I still have framed over my office desk haha
They probably offered it as a meme to poke fun at conservative logic lol
Yeah, definitely. I had heard the joke before but didn't know it was a conservative /r/onejoke but that totally makes sense now.
We learned basket weaving in Boy Scouts. It's a good survival skill if you are stranded somewhere. You'd think conservatives would be pro basket weaving.
boy scouts too liberal, they let trans kids in
Wait until you see Br*tish scouts, they let anyone of the right age in regardless of gender. Shocking, isn't it!!
the bsa does that now too, i'm pretty sure it's just called scouting of america now or something
They figured letting in girls would distract from the "we raped little boys for decades" headlines. And hey, it worked!
Also enrollment overall was plummeting so they needed more members of any sort.
Have they stopped requiring members to be religious yet?
idk, haven't interacted with them since 2014ish. my troop wasn't religious though, at least we didn't pray or anything
We did prayers during our weekend camping trips. They were nominally non-denominational, though clearly Christian in theme, and attendance was not optional. I butted heads with several of the adult troop leaders over my atheism, and while it wasn’t the reason I left before getting Eagle, I suspect it would have been an issue had I chosen to seriously pursue it. I remember distinctly during one of the PRBs - reviews with adult leaders to make sure you’re ready to advance to the next rank - they asked which of the twelve principles of scouting I struggled most with. I gave what I thought would be a reasoned answer - “A Scout is Reverent”. I said that, as an atheist, obviously I couldn’t actually be faithful, so I had chosen to interpret it as being respectful of all faiths. The leaders were not very happy with that answer. It was actually kind of a wake up call, the first time I’d ever received real pushback for my lack of religion. I saw their *valuation of me as a person* drop in real time. It was so jarring and uncomfortable that it’s still hard to reconcile the good times I had as a scout with just how awful that experience was.
My troop was an Eagle mill. We had about six to twelve kids make Eagle every year so of course not all of them were religious. The troop had an adult leader that handled the "letter of recommendation from a religious leader" for kids who didn't actively participate in organized religion. You'd have a conversation with him to make sure that you had a sufficient understanding of faith and religion and what it meant to you. I'm not religious at all so I tried to bullshit my way through. I was told to come back when I had a better answer. I suspect that if I had been honest and gave actual well-considered reasons for my atheism that I would have passed.
My troop was mostly made up of religious people, but religion was never a part of scouting*, like we never prayed as a group or anything like that *Well, except for when we’d recite the Scout’s Oath: “On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight”
The religious requirements vary a lot from troop to troop.
My school had a prestigious art college, there was a basket weaving minor but it’s fuckin art school
You have to remember that conservatives are mostly people who weren't bright enough to go to college themselves, so diminishing other people's educations by calling their degrees useless is a way of compensating for their own feelings of inadequacy.
Well put
It's a lame joke that was funny once like 50 years ago that, like all things, conservatives can't seem to let go of.
They have 3 jokes.
Now I'm in the shop class or the basket weavin' with all the rest of the muthafuckas underachievin'
I'm from a liberal arts school called The Evergreen State College and they pride themselves in working with the Native tribes to teach a program that goes into Native history and traditions. The conservatives always love to shit on the school and make jokes similar to the 'lesbian underwater basket weaving degree's Racist misogynist homophobes, what's new?
I do have the basket weaving merit badge from the BSA. I might even still have one of the baskets lying around somewhere.
This is the common tripe of many conservatives, in particular working class conservatives. Because they didn't go to college, they tell themselves that actually, college is a huge waste of time and you learn nothing. While there are absolutely degrees that can get you nowhere, good luck being a doctor, scientist, lawyer, engineer, or exec without any college training.
I'm a pharmacist with outstanding loans, I just wanna talk with them. I just wanna talk...
"Do you do poison?"
The difference between poison and medicine is the dosage.
This is badass
Engineer with lots of loans here, I don't care what other people did in college and this guy's a loser
Why is it always underwater basket weaving?
Because they need to make up something ridiculous and keep repeating it like it's an actual thing to convince their base it is available at every hippie liberal college, and justify their view that student loan forgiveness is bad because if there are some people out there who get silly degrees they made up, nobody should be forgiven... Nobody should be forgiven... hey wait a second.
Underwater basket weaving has been a silly trope for decades now to mean anything frivolous. A little cliched but I don't mind it. My question is why this guy made it "lesbian". I mean, I know the answer, but still.
I mean, weaving the basket underwater makes the reeds more supple and easier to bend into shape. When dried, the wood retains the woven shape. Honestly it's better than dry basket weaving...
You know, all these years it never occurred to me that only the basket would be under water.
It’s on Wikipedia, it’s a saying for any generally (perceived) useless degree or elective course (that doesn’t contribute to grad requirements).
Don't forget the homophobic addition to his imaginary degree because it wasn't offensive enough without a good dose of bigotry added.
but they SAID it was a serious question, not trolling. Are you calling them liars???
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, Mr. Engineer.
Why do people not realize that helping the poor doesn't magically make prices go up? Companies see "poor people might not be quite as poor" in the headlines and they jack their shit up. That is literally it. The govt isn't "printing money" it is taking money from one thing and putting it into another, Jesus christ. Maybe he should've majored in underwater lesbian basket weaving because if he's an engineer who doesn't understand the simple concept of capitalism, I fear for whatever project he's on. Clearly his fee fees are hurt
A vast majority of the population not knowing the concept of capitalism deeper than, make money -> buy stuff, is imo the reason everything is so shit rn.
All these engineers who took a 100 level finance class and think they're the wolf of Wall street
i have an engineering and a finance degree there's dozens of us
There's engineers in my class that haven't even had an economics class that think that.
>Why do people not realize that helping the poor doesn't magically make prices go up? Companies see "poor people might not be quite as poor" in the headlines and they jack their shit up. That is literally it. The govt isn't "printing money" it is taking money from one thing and putting it into another, Jesus christ. Its the theory of money supply. The idea that if the government injects cash into the economy, it causes inflation because there is more money than goods to buy. Complete horseshit of course to blame poor people for that, when this theory itself makes it clear that the real cause is the shortage of goods, its supply side. Poor people are more likely to spend the extra money on bills and essentials, if there is a supply shortage on such things, then there is already a grave problem. It's all made worse by companies that use crisis as an opportunity to raise prices.
Agree! Anyone that does 3 minutes of digging on inflation knows wealth hoarding aka the stock market being a rich man's wet dream is the #1 issue.
Line must go up year after year 📈 Infinite profits on finite resources.
Love, Death, and Robots (great show) has a line in S3E1 about how our downfall was due to our focus on personal wealth, short term gains, and capitalism as opposed to sustainability and the future generations. Slowing ourselves down is gunna be tough at this point. There's SO many people that it will be very hard to fund sustainable habitation on the planet. We keep letting currency dictate our world versus practical ideas and the overall health of our ecosystems and living conditions.
I guarantee you the Medical Assistant, Vet Tech, or Pharmacy Assistant, etc, etc whose higher education you're shitting on is going to do a fuckload more for the world than you and whatever fucking app you end up coding for, as my friends in tech are only too happy to agree.
I swear the White collar world is so full of these self masturbating asshats. Who does all the work? The technicians. Who gets all the credit and money? The asshats.
Was talking with some computer guy yesterday and he said something about how a mac "couldn't be used for real work." I mentioned that I had used them for my work (cancer research), my roommate used it for his AV work (marketing), and my girlfriend used it for modeling runs in her PhD research. His response: "That's all nonsense hobby and school kid stuff." Soo... people paying their bills doing something is "hobby and school kid stuff," gotcha, gotcha.
The computer guy you were talking to is wrong, anyway. Modern Macs are Unix based (since 2007) and work very much like Linux boxes under the hood. Honestly, for modern programming the OS is almost irrelevant because so much has been abstracted or moved into the cloud, so it’s mostly just personal preference these days unless you’re working with legacy or specialized software/hardware. TL/DR: dude was just being a pretentious twit.
Asshat here, can confirm
>I swear the White collar world is so full of these self masturbating asshats. Been blue collar for over a decade. Do you have any idea how often I have to fix things designed by some salaried engineer who sits at a desk all day?
Engineers are extremely prone to thinking they're better/smarter than everyone. There's a solid % of completely pathetic people drawn to the field.
I'm sure basket weaving is more productive than whatever this fuck does.
As an engineer working in manufacturing, can confirm that most people do things that make a more important difference in the world than me.
Can confirm. King of the Hill taught me that basket weaving is a hardcore skill. But holy shit, underwater lesbian basket weaving? SEAL Team Six, right there.
It sounds very complicated, and I have a lot of questions! How can you tell if a basket is a lesbian? Can a lesbian basket only be weaved underwater? Or are the baskets made by lesbians who live underwater? Can I, as a bisexual woman, enter this profession? If so, would I have to stay only half-submerged at all times?
The lesbian half of you must be submerged, but you can only make half of a basket. Sorry.
Ah, I see the confusion. It’s actually the profession of weaving baskets exclusively for underwater lesbians.
As an Electrical Engineer, I am getting really fucking sick of how often "engineering" is thrown out as some important degree. It's a fucking four year degree and most engineering jobs can literally be done by a trained monkey.
I learned web development over the course of 18 weeks. I'm a senior developer now. Anybody can do this fucking job, we're not gods, most of us aren't even that smart.
Shh 🤫 you'll blow my cover
People with engineering degrees act like they're making parts for Boeing when in reality they build a website that 5 people will use
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As someone who actually has made parts that go into planes. The "engineers" that have such a distate for the liberal arts part of their education are often the worst communicators(bad technical writing skills)and have near zero imagination to actually solve problems. Nothing is worse than working with Engineers that don't have critical thinking skills beyond their spreadsheets.
Tech bro, can confirm. I make 6 figures to make some rich bastards even richer. I’d be happy making a comfortable living making the world a better place through like, carbon capture or something like that, but turns out, you make a lot more money by building a platform for JP Morgan to do stock trading stuff.
God, I feel this. I was just laying awake in bed last night thinking about how much of a waste it is coding to build out an online retailer.
Don’t forget counselors, social workers, and teachers!
Former vet tech here w a 10k debt - thank you 👏 we’ve saved countless animal lives many of which are owned by d-bags like the OOP they come to us crying to help save their pet
My underwater basket weaving minor included a heterosexual furry option... and his guy's engineering program had an emphasis in douche canoe design.
He also had a minor in anal stretching with a focus in head implantation
Forgiving debt is not giving out $10k checks. No money changes hands. No one is paying that debt, it just disappears. The only way this will effect the economy is in people being able to either drop payments or lower payments and put that money somewhere else.
For all intents and purposes, for the economy, it allows it to continue to recover i nthe face of global inflation. Student loan payments are paused now. That monthly cash flow has not been a required thing for two and a half years. People have adjusted to this new normal, and are still suffering because of inflation and other factors. At best, it will cushion an economic depression a little when the student loan payments do eventually kick back in because either the monthly owed balance will be lower for some, or the number of payments left in their plan is reduced, however that gets worked out.
They don't understand the very basics of economics or finance
These people make no sense to me. Even in their fictional bs world. If you really think that underwater lesbian basket weaving degree is the shits, go and get one. No one forced you to get an engineering degree. Presumably, you did so because you a) liked the discipline and b) felt it would give you a better advantage in the workforce. How does making education cheaper for everyone negate either of those? It doesn't! Even if "everything got more expensive" (it won't, but let's just play the game), you'd still likely have a degree in a discipline you think is more enjoyable and more valuable. So your wages, too, should go up to combat the inflation, right? Or are your skills not valuable enough to warrant that baseline raise?
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Right? Guy apparently can’t even engineer a lesbian basket. Tsk.
Worst fucking pattern of thought ever: "I had to suffer, so you should too" (even though they suffered less than average)
It is THE conservative mindset. "Well I had to work to get my $1000 down payment for my 2 story house, so quit complaining as you struggle to pay for existing"
Not to mention they have no clue how federal loan forgiveness works or the very basics of macro economics and inflation.
The actual insanity is this person paid down their debt due to government assistance, and now they're angry that other people will get government assistance. Fucking conservatism in a nutshell. But here comes the hot take. Yes, you should also get that $10,000 check and if the left was in charge you would.
[They will](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/covid-19/payment-pause-zero-interest) Dude was prematurely outraged lol
Hate to say it, because that really is an unfortunate situation, but Biden & the democrats have been talking seriously about canceling student debt since the primaries in 2019, so if you decided to pay it off in 2020, that’s kind of on you
Honestly... When payments/interest froze, a lot of people were suggesting you just put the money in some sort of savings that could accrue interest so that if payments resumed and no relief came, you'd at least be able to do one big payment before interest kicked back in. I kinda figured this would happen one way or another and had other debt (car/credit cards) to focus on so I worked on those. Edit: You can [get a refund on any payments you made after the deferment began.](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/covid-19/payment-pause-zero-interest) >You can get a refund for any payment (including auto-debit payments) you make during the payment pause (beginning March 13, 2020). Contact your loan servicer to request that your payment be refunded.
According to WaPo, if you voluntarily paid during the 0% interest period starting March 2020, you can apply to have those payments refunded, so this guy will get his handout regardless.
They'll surely say loudly that they will not be applying since they hate handouts while happily taking the money without anyone knowing.
For real. We refinanced our house in 2021 and opted to roll a few other loans into it to consolidate and I very deliberately did not roll in my federal student loans. I would definitely be feeling pretty stupid about now if I had.
Oh wow underwater *lesbian* basket weaving, one of the one jokes has slightly evolved!
But it’s not a joke, they said it was a serious non trolling question!
My question is what even is lesbian underwater basket weaving? Is it a degree only for lesbians? Can anyone do it but the baskets are made special for lesbians? Do the baskets have lesbian-style influences?
> while my engineering degree gets spit on Biden: here's some student debt relief This redditor: why are you disrespecting me? This redditor has a problem with debt relief only because they don't think they're getting anything out of it. Amazing. Smart enough to get an engineering degree, too stupid to understand how they benefit from other people getting debt relief - not to mention their completely missing sense of empathy.
If you paid off your student loans during an interest rate freeze while a candidate was actively campaign on loan forgiveness- the joke is on you buddy.
The big time engineering degree is pretty useless if no one knows wtf you’re talking about.
Underwater lesbian basket weaving? Where do I sign up? I think I really missed my calling
Tell me youve turned boomer again
This boomer is happy for loan forgiveness even though it doesn't affect me
Imagine thinking giving money to broke people is what causes inflation.
Education just needs to be free. End stop. Also, we need to not make unnecessary degrees requirements or decision factors for employment. This guy is an ass, but he's not wrong that we shouldn't expect relatively lucrative fields be uniquely saddled with student debt. But it does mean they will be less lucrative, since the student loans are allegedly factored in.
>Education just needs to be free. Ope, sorry, we're doing the opposite! 20 years from now school kids will be taught that all those kids their age that are out picking berries all day used to go to something called "public school" until the god emperor helped rid America of that corruption.
What a meandering way to say “I’m a selfish PoS.”
I want this, but I actually really don’t want this because it also helps people I hate for no reason. GOP in a nutshell.
Now I know we are dunking on the dumbass but if anyone has made payments to your student loans after March 13 2020. You can get them refunded all the way up until now by contacting your loan provider More specific details [Link here](https://www.studentloanplanner.com/federal-student-loan-refund/#Federal_student_loan_refund_eligibility)