Let's say, Riot fixes his waveclear by adding a lot of dmg to minions on taunt, altogether increasing his Q dmg on minions too, he'll probably become a pro play champ imo, maybe not in the current meta but I surely see him being a good pick depending on game state.
Sadly right now in the meta, Shen is just pissbad to blindpick, enemy can just pick someone who can abuse hull and demolish and if they have a functioning braincell, they'll easily have way more impact than Shen because he won't be able to match them in sidelanes cause they'll have more stats plus buffed minions = worse clear for Shen. That's what makes playing Shen right now so painful and frustrating.
I agree that Shen isn't in the best place right now, even though I have had success in Gold/Plat lately building Radiant/Redemption, but I disagree that it's because of his lack of wave clear. Shen used to be able to stat check nearly every matchup level 2 and then control the lane by zoning the enemy laner from farm and sometimes even EXP using good wave management. That's just not the case anymore, which makes him much less fun to play.
I've heard people say that a good adjustment for him would be to buff his Q while nerfing his ult and I tend to agree. Would open up more opportunities for plays in lane while keeping his global presence in check.
Shen can still do that lol, it all depends on how the enemy laner respects Shen. Shen still has one of the best early levels in top lane, mainly bcs of his as, range and deceptively high AP dmg that enemy doesn't anticipate, with ignite you'll kill nearly all top laners lvl 2-3. But that's the thing, he's confined to this momentum window now, if a laner decides to respect you and wait for their certain item spike ( sheen/ ironspike whip), you can't really trade with them anymore unless you didn't kill them before or if you got kills thru ult. But he still retains his identity as a lane bully to an extent somewhat, though he falls off as a bully rather quickly now than before.
When the new Statikks Shiv released with 50% AP scaling and 220% damage on Minions, there were some Statikks - AP oriented Shen Builds which were no fun to play against.
He would literally oneshot waves, could dodge/survive any attempt to stop him and still be there at the teamfight with a huge as fuck shield.
Then shen would be forced to use his escape/ engage just to wave clear leaving him free to get punished. Plus his q does enough damage with him being a tank and all. Not to mention being an energy champion means he isn't pushed for spamming his abilties early game like ornn or maokai. If I'm not mistaken most tanks don't even use abilties on the wave unless they need to recall or roam.
> If I'm not mistaken most tanks don't even use abilties on the wave unless they need to recall or roam.
You answered it yourself, even when Shen gets early kills, half the time the wavestate is so fucked that his pisspoor wave clear can't do anything about it, also using E like that on the wave is a good thing in terms of counterplay and punish window for the opponent. His Q does enough dmg when he has atleast bamis with him, which is a good spike but depending on it always feels just sad.
Probably bc hes not an auto/damage based champ.
Idk im just guessing. Or maybe to make his Q drag through that much better with the atk speed increase.
He is an auto/Q based champ. That’s his skill expression actually. They nerfed it because his WR spiked with meta and item changes so he can keep his global ult but you still have to be good at mechanics like walking with them in order to repeat Q Drag or spacing with Q enhanced Range for Grasp Bonks. Back in the days many more like tower crash and hydra aa reset but still… you want to beat Morde, Sett, Darius, and many more? You have to be clean and movement- and aa command.
Yeah sure but you do the 6 Q Combo or get some AH it’s pretty much every AA and besides Q you will also have Grasp (you often sneak in a grasp bonk after and between Q‘s). I think Shen is just as AA based as Sett. At least It felt very natural picking up sett after 800.000 mastery points with 78% WR in Emerald on Shen due to similar movement commands in lane.
- He has short attack ranged (q inactive)
- He needs it to discharge all q actives
- He doesn't scale very well with ad
- No waveclear outside bami/tiamat+
- No attack resets
All of Shens damage is hitting 3 autos after Q, then he kinda just does nothing. His wave clear is hitting 3 autos after Q, then again doing near nothing. He needs high attack speed because he has no wave clear that doesn't immediately go unpunished, meaning he needs to do a lot of low damage auto attacks to farm.
This pairs well with double adaptive force runes. It enables him to last hit under tower effectively. I've started to do it after I experienced all these awful matchups like Mordekaiser, Jax and Pantheon.
Because Shen literally has zero waveclear. Like actually no waveclear. He has to auto attack to damage minions. He also has the lowest CS/min.
Let's say, Riot fixes his waveclear by adding a lot of dmg to minions on taunt, altogether increasing his Q dmg on minions too, he'll probably become a pro play champ imo, maybe not in the current meta but I surely see him being a good pick depending on game state.
There's nothing to "fix". Shen needs to have very low wave clear to be balanced because of how impactful his ult is. Can't have it all.
Sadly right now in the meta, Shen is just pissbad to blindpick, enemy can just pick someone who can abuse hull and demolish and if they have a functioning braincell, they'll easily have way more impact than Shen because he won't be able to match them in sidelanes cause they'll have more stats plus buffed minions = worse clear for Shen. That's what makes playing Shen right now so painful and frustrating.
I agree that Shen isn't in the best place right now, even though I have had success in Gold/Plat lately building Radiant/Redemption, but I disagree that it's because of his lack of wave clear. Shen used to be able to stat check nearly every matchup level 2 and then control the lane by zoning the enemy laner from farm and sometimes even EXP using good wave management. That's just not the case anymore, which makes him much less fun to play. I've heard people say that a good adjustment for him would be to buff his Q while nerfing his ult and I tend to agree. Would open up more opportunities for plays in lane while keeping his global presence in check.
Shen can still do that lol, it all depends on how the enemy laner respects Shen. Shen still has one of the best early levels in top lane, mainly bcs of his as, range and deceptively high AP dmg that enemy doesn't anticipate, with ignite you'll kill nearly all top laners lvl 2-3. But that's the thing, he's confined to this momentum window now, if a laner decides to respect you and wait for their certain item spike ( sheen/ ironspike whip), you can't really trade with them anymore unless you didn't kill them before or if you got kills thru ult. But he still retains his identity as a lane bully to an extent somewhat, though he falls off as a bully rather quickly now than before.
Shen is and has been a pro play champ. His presence on the map is second to none. If he had good wave clear he would instantly become pick/ban.
When the new Statikks Shiv released with 50% AP scaling and 220% damage on Minions, there were some Statikks - AP oriented Shen Builds which were no fun to play against. He would literally oneshot waves, could dodge/survive any attempt to stop him and still be there at the teamfight with a huge as fuck shield.
Then shen would be forced to use his escape/ engage just to wave clear leaving him free to get punished. Plus his q does enough damage with him being a tank and all. Not to mention being an energy champion means he isn't pushed for spamming his abilties early game like ornn or maokai. If I'm not mistaken most tanks don't even use abilties on the wave unless they need to recall or roam.
> If I'm not mistaken most tanks don't even use abilties on the wave unless they need to recall or roam. You answered it yourself, even when Shen gets early kills, half the time the wavestate is so fucked that his pisspoor wave clear can't do anything about it, also using E like that on the wave is a good thing in terms of counterplay and punish window for the opponent. His Q does enough dmg when he has atleast bamis with him, which is a good spike but depending on it always feels just sad.
wth is maokai cooking with .8 attack speed 👀
picked him with lethal tempo accidentally and was actually surprised at how fast he was attacking and it won me some fights lmfao
Probably bc hes not an auto/damage based champ. Idk im just guessing. Or maybe to make his Q drag through that much better with the atk speed increase.
He is an auto/Q based champ. That’s his skill expression actually. They nerfed it because his WR spiked with meta and item changes so he can keep his global ult but you still have to be good at mechanics like walking with them in order to repeat Q Drag or spacing with Q enhanced Range for Grasp Bonks. Back in the days many more like tower crash and hydra aa reset but still… you want to beat Morde, Sett, Darius, and many more? You have to be clean and movement- and aa command.
Q ability based yea. Not auto attack dependant. I get what you're saying though.
Yeah sure but you do the 6 Q Combo or get some AH it’s pretty much every AA and besides Q you will also have Grasp (you often sneak in a grasp bonk after and between Q‘s). I think Shen is just as AA based as Sett. At least It felt very natural picking up sett after 800.000 mastery points with 78% WR in Emerald on Shen due to similar movement commands in lane.
Weird flex, but ok. Q is an ability.
Q is an auto attack enhancing ability.
Yea no shit.
Then he is an AA dependant champ...
Ok "shengod"
Okay "dangerouscurrent"?
his fastest wave clear comes from items like sunfire or titanic. he has 0 waveclear outside of auto attacking
Cause he Ninja! Wataaaa
- He has short attack ranged (q inactive) - He needs it to discharge all q actives - He doesn't scale very well with ad - No waveclear outside bami/tiamat+ - No attack resets
A better question is irelia having 200 attack range?
So he can pet you faster
idk but now I wanna build AP attack speed zac
I actually play Zac top occasionally, it's pretty fun.
Why does a tree hve higher attack speed than an Ninja ? Riot !
Where is this data from?? I need this
Damage, attack range and attack speed are from **Leagueoflegends Fandom** website and average CS per minute is from **Leagueofgraphs** website.
Thanks!
He’s a ninja
and Maokai is a tree
And teemo is a b*tch
A lot of tanks have high attack speed I think
Perhaps it's because he's an Auto-Attack **ONLY** champion? Not to mention he does no damage to minions w/o Sunfire or Titanic
So that he can beat you to death
No waveclear and melee champ
All of Shens damage is hitting 3 autos after Q, then he kinda just does nothing. His wave clear is hitting 3 autos after Q, then again doing near nothing. He needs high attack speed because he has no wave clear that doesn't immediately go unpunished, meaning he needs to do a lot of low damage auto attacks to farm.
Mao has .8 attack speed. Make that make sense.
This pairs well with double adaptive force runes. It enables him to last hit under tower effectively. I've started to do it after I experienced all these awful matchups like Mordekaiser, Jax and Pantheon.
He’s a ninja. He’s got to have it