I agree, but at the same time if Clark lets him in on his secret, there’s no way that Lex is going to be happy sitting back and abiding by Clark’s moral code all the time. Look at the battles that Clark has had with Pete, Chloe and Oliver - they have disagreed on how to do things but none of them have the evil or power behind them that Lex does.
Lex would all of a sudden have these grandiose ideas and plans for what Clark should be doing, Clark wouldn’t be into it, then all of a sudden Lex becomes the enemy and is betrayed by Clark anyway. Lex wouldn’t be happy sitting back and being the sidekick. Clark kind of didn’t have a choice.
Idk i feel like theres a part of Lex that would totally fall in behind the real life equivalent of Angel Warrior if he had the full picture.
Like sure hes not a team player but maybe he could atleast be reined in in terms of evilness if he knew that they had an super power being firmly on humanitys side.
Yeah maybe if Clark had told Lex from Season 1 and could maybe have set him on the correct path. Maybe Lex could have focussed his energy on other things over the years instead of obsessing over Clark. But what projects would Lex have delved into? I feel like he’s got ants in his pants and would have all these ideas of how to use Clark but Clark was so young and not ready.
Also if Clark told Lex early then I feel like maybe Lionel would have been a problem? Maybe Lionel would have turned into the enemy if he wasn’t brought into the fold, which you know he wouldn’t because Lex and Lionel didn’t get along and Lex would have wanted Clark all to himself.
Also if Clark told Lex early on then Clark was still in high school and Lex was a 20+ billionaire so the power dynamic would have definitely been off.
I feel like Lex definitely had his warrior angel fan side but he also had a really tumultuous upbringing. Think about all of the times he quoted great rulers in the early seasons and how Lionel raised him to always battle and fight. That darker side of him was always there and so I don’t feel like we could expect it to never come out.
I can see what youre saying and I guess we do get a feel for what it would have been like for a billionaire to know his secret in Queen but Lex probably wouldnt have been able to accept that 'he wasnt ready'
whereas Queen was all like 'well aight imma be over here doing the superhero thing let me know when youre ready'
Oh yeah every time theres a team up episode and they says the words 'Justice' or 'League'
I do the leo dicaprio pointing at the tv meme 😂
There is a kinda a weird part where Lois doesnt pickup the ol relationship with Oliver because she cant bear to be second to the world / the job again ... and then she hugs Clark like aw cute 😍 but also 👀
Hahaha yeah there are sooo many unsubtle hints all throughout the series to that sort of stuff, I love it.
Yeah true! Maybe she decided Clark was worth it 😉
For my money, it's not that Clark is lying about his secret, it's that he's so very *obviously* lying. He's really not good at it which, considering he becomes Superman is in character I guess but also, if you're going to constantly lie to your friends face about shit they can obviously see, get better at it. Lex will nearly get killed by some meteor infrcted person, Clark will show up put of nowhere to save the day and Lex asks him about what happened and Clark will be like "gee, I don't know Lex, a guy who can shoot lightning? You sound a little crazy, you must have hit your head pretty hard".
Plus than Clark goes on to get super-mad whenever Lex (or anyone else) hides anything from him and gives speeches about how friends are supposed to trust each other and it comes off very gaslighty.
This exactly.
I dont mind him having to keep his secret.
Its just how blatant his lies are sometimes are very gaslighty.
Also on top of that the super hypocrisy that comes out whenever anyone in this game of lies finds out theyve been lied to is phenomenal 👏
Yeah I agree Lexs methods are twisted BUUT ... he wasnt just doing it for funsies. He constantly goes on about being ready to protect earth from the next big threat ... so Lex has the old 'the ends justify the means' mindset which from his point of view is acceptable because most the people he is experimenting on are insane / criminals / a danger to the public.
Also sure Clark is saving people physically but mentally I feel like everyone around him gets a good taste of that gas.
I maybe would have liked a bit more nuance lol ol Pa Kent should have done a bit more
'do whatever you can to keep your secret but try not to just blatantly lie to peoples faces or they come to distrust anything you say and maybe even hate you for it'
You have a point! People act like he's paranoid and crazy, so he believes he's the only one who can protect humanity from the threats.
Clark could keep his secret and acknowledge the weird shit going on by being like "yeah, that was weird, idk anything about that, we should look into that" instead of making Lex think he's crazy
I think the most important part is that Lex in Smallville has an unaddressed and never fixed mental health issue, that was a direct consequence of him protecting his mother after she killed his baby brother. He bore all the wrath of his already abusive father. Ofc if Lex had been raised by someone like Jonathan Kent he’d never turned out this way. Similarly if Clark had been raised by Lionel we even get to see the result so there is no discussion.
Yeah its really tragic i think in one of the earliest seasons where Lex stays at the farm for a bit and Pa Kent is like 'youre a good worker and welcome to stay anytime' which was a nice taste of how Lex could have been raised right if he had the right rolemodels.
And Lex at some point reveals that they used to stay on a farm from time to time when his mother was alive and that he really enjoyed it there but they stopped going once she died.
I get what you are saying and agree mostly. However, Lex would still have turned. The only reason he was good was holding on to Clark and his family. If he would have been fully accepted. One transgression and he would have felt betrayed and spiralled. He put all his hope into Clark.
Lex didn't do that. That was the president of his club of fans.
Also Lex wouldn't have done that, a couple of chapters around there, on Lexmas, Lex dream shows one of his greatest aspirations it's to be seen as a son by Johnathan Kent.
I agree and it's one of the things that always annoys me of people treating Lex like completely evil ignoring the gaslighting he gets all the time.
We the audience know that Clark it's lying, to Lex's face, he is gaslighting him all the time, even if for good reasons.
How would people feel if let's say, you had proof that your girlfriend or your best friend it's lying to you, you confront them and they lie again to your face.
Because of this one of my favourite exchanges between Lex and Clark happens on S4 when Clark loses his memory and Lex takes advantage of that.
After that when Clark recovers his memory, Clarks ask what happened, what did they talked about.
And Lex after lying to him about their conversation replies with: "I didn't do anything you wouldn't have done for me."
I also like (I cant remember the exact season i think around 4 or 5?)
but as soon as Clark drops round for a visit his immediate reaction is to tell him to leave because after all these years he's given up on trying to rebuild a friendship with this person who just blatantly lies to his face and only visits when he wants something or some information or to cast blame for which they seemingly have no proof
Shouldve called it Denydenydenyville.
You know, people REALLY need to let go of this idea that Clark owes Lex full disclosure. After six seasons of actions that include various felonies and even some things that would probably violate the Geneva Conventions, Lex truly proved he couldn't be trusted.
After having seen all that, if you're still on Lex's side then I don't know what to tell you.
"THIS IS SMALLVILLE! METEOR FREAKS, ALIEN SHIPS, CRYPTIC SYMBOLS...SOMEONE HAD TO TAKE CONTROL, SOMEONE HAS TO PROTECT THE WORLD!" ~Lex
He has a point. The way he went about things was borderline either evil or anti-hero but what would you do if you had limitless wealth and there's weird things happening around you.
Some black guy with super human powers threatens to kill you if you don't tell him the whereabouts of some guy named Kal-El. A giant spaceship crash lands in the middle of the field. Your "best friend" tosses you around like a bowling ball on 2 separate occasions with no explanation.
What would you do as a powerless guy with nothing but money and genius IQ?
I get it, I understand that Pete was harassed for keeping Clark's secret and it is a dangerous secret to keep. I get that unlike his other friends, Lex is rich, powerful and capable of spilling the beans of Clark to the whole world.
What I don't get is, if a guy is your best friend, why do you make him look like a fool every time just to protect your secret.
Supergirl did the same thing to Lena and Lena called her out for it and had Supergirl groveling for her affections.
Is it really so evil to look for explanations for all the weird things happening in smallville?
That's one of the reasons I like this iteration of the characters so much. Clark is not always morally irreproachable, and Lex is a complex and sympathetic villain. The writing in their interactions wasn't always perfect, but they both have points of view that the audience can understand and feel the conflict between. It makes for a good narrative.
I agree, but at the same time if Clark lets him in on his secret, there’s no way that Lex is going to be happy sitting back and abiding by Clark’s moral code all the time. Look at the battles that Clark has had with Pete, Chloe and Oliver - they have disagreed on how to do things but none of them have the evil or power behind them that Lex does. Lex would all of a sudden have these grandiose ideas and plans for what Clark should be doing, Clark wouldn’t be into it, then all of a sudden Lex becomes the enemy and is betrayed by Clark anyway. Lex wouldn’t be happy sitting back and being the sidekick. Clark kind of didn’t have a choice.
Idk i feel like theres a part of Lex that would totally fall in behind the real life equivalent of Angel Warrior if he had the full picture. Like sure hes not a team player but maybe he could atleast be reined in in terms of evilness if he knew that they had an super power being firmly on humanitys side.
Yeah maybe if Clark had told Lex from Season 1 and could maybe have set him on the correct path. Maybe Lex could have focussed his energy on other things over the years instead of obsessing over Clark. But what projects would Lex have delved into? I feel like he’s got ants in his pants and would have all these ideas of how to use Clark but Clark was so young and not ready. Also if Clark told Lex early then I feel like maybe Lionel would have been a problem? Maybe Lionel would have turned into the enemy if he wasn’t brought into the fold, which you know he wouldn’t because Lex and Lionel didn’t get along and Lex would have wanted Clark all to himself. Also if Clark told Lex early on then Clark was still in high school and Lex was a 20+ billionaire so the power dynamic would have definitely been off. I feel like Lex definitely had his warrior angel fan side but he also had a really tumultuous upbringing. Think about all of the times he quoted great rulers in the early seasons and how Lionel raised him to always battle and fight. That darker side of him was always there and so I don’t feel like we could expect it to never come out.
I can see what youre saying and I guess we do get a feel for what it would have been like for a billionaire to know his secret in Queen but Lex probably wouldnt have been able to accept that 'he wasnt ready' whereas Queen was all like 'well aight imma be over here doing the superhero thing let me know when youre ready'
Yeah exactly. I love Oliver’s influence tbh
Oh yeah every time theres a team up episode and they says the words 'Justice' or 'League' I do the leo dicaprio pointing at the tv meme 😂 There is a kinda a weird part where Lois doesnt pickup the ol relationship with Oliver because she cant bear to be second to the world / the job again ... and then she hugs Clark like aw cute 😍 but also 👀
Hahaha yeah there are sooo many unsubtle hints all throughout the series to that sort of stuff, I love it. Yeah true! Maybe she decided Clark was worth it 😉
I dont get this. Clarks secret is.. HIS? And lex was morally grey from the start. I wouldnt want that guy to know I am an alien?!?!
For my money, it's not that Clark is lying about his secret, it's that he's so very *obviously* lying. He's really not good at it which, considering he becomes Superman is in character I guess but also, if you're going to constantly lie to your friends face about shit they can obviously see, get better at it. Lex will nearly get killed by some meteor infrcted person, Clark will show up put of nowhere to save the day and Lex asks him about what happened and Clark will be like "gee, I don't know Lex, a guy who can shoot lightning? You sound a little crazy, you must have hit your head pretty hard". Plus than Clark goes on to get super-mad whenever Lex (or anyone else) hides anything from him and gives speeches about how friends are supposed to trust each other and it comes off very gaslighty.
This exactly. I dont mind him having to keep his secret. Its just how blatant his lies are sometimes are very gaslighty. Also on top of that the super hypocrisy that comes out whenever anyone in this game of lies finds out theyve been lied to is phenomenal 👏
I mean when Lex is hiding secrets he is torturing people? Clark is.. saving people?
Yeah I agree Lexs methods are twisted BUUT ... he wasnt just doing it for funsies. He constantly goes on about being ready to protect earth from the next big threat ... so Lex has the old 'the ends justify the means' mindset which from his point of view is acceptable because most the people he is experimenting on are insane / criminals / a danger to the public. Also sure Clark is saving people physically but mentally I feel like everyone around him gets a good taste of that gas. I maybe would have liked a bit more nuance lol ol Pa Kent should have done a bit more 'do whatever you can to keep your secret but try not to just blatantly lie to peoples faces or they come to distrust anything you say and maybe even hate you for it'
I mean when Lex is hiding secrets he is torturing people? Clark is.. saving people?
You have a point! People act like he's paranoid and crazy, so he believes he's the only one who can protect humanity from the threats. Clark could keep his secret and acknowledge the weird shit going on by being like "yeah, that was weird, idk anything about that, we should look into that" instead of making Lex think he's crazy
I think the most important part is that Lex in Smallville has an unaddressed and never fixed mental health issue, that was a direct consequence of him protecting his mother after she killed his baby brother. He bore all the wrath of his already abusive father. Ofc if Lex had been raised by someone like Jonathan Kent he’d never turned out this way. Similarly if Clark had been raised by Lionel we even get to see the result so there is no discussion.
Yeah its really tragic i think in one of the earliest seasons where Lex stays at the farm for a bit and Pa Kent is like 'youre a good worker and welcome to stay anytime' which was a nice taste of how Lex could have been raised right if he had the right rolemodels. And Lex at some point reveals that they used to stay on a farm from time to time when his mother was alive and that he really enjoyed it there but they stopped going once she died.
Clark is a professional gaslighter, that's for sure.
Is that one of his krypto abilities?
I get what you are saying and agree mostly. However, Lex would still have turned. The only reason he was good was holding on to Clark and his family. If he would have been fully accepted. One transgression and he would have felt betrayed and spiralled. He put all his hope into Clark.
Lex got Pa Kent beat up in order to win an election. FUCK Lex.
Lex didn't do that. That was the president of his club of fans. Also Lex wouldn't have done that, a couple of chapters around there, on Lexmas, Lex dream shows one of his greatest aspirations it's to be seen as a son by Johnathan Kent.
Yeah that sucks but also we were already deep in gaslight gang territory by then so i guess all is forgiven? 😏
I agree and it's one of the things that always annoys me of people treating Lex like completely evil ignoring the gaslighting he gets all the time. We the audience know that Clark it's lying, to Lex's face, he is gaslighting him all the time, even if for good reasons. How would people feel if let's say, you had proof that your girlfriend or your best friend it's lying to you, you confront them and they lie again to your face. Because of this one of my favourite exchanges between Lex and Clark happens on S4 when Clark loses his memory and Lex takes advantage of that. After that when Clark recovers his memory, Clarks ask what happened, what did they talked about. And Lex after lying to him about their conversation replies with: "I didn't do anything you wouldn't have done for me."
I also like (I cant remember the exact season i think around 4 or 5?) but as soon as Clark drops round for a visit his immediate reaction is to tell him to leave because after all these years he's given up on trying to rebuild a friendship with this person who just blatantly lies to his face and only visits when he wants something or some information or to cast blame for which they seemingly have no proof Shouldve called it Denydenydenyville.
You know, people REALLY need to let go of this idea that Clark owes Lex full disclosure. After six seasons of actions that include various felonies and even some things that would probably violate the Geneva Conventions, Lex truly proved he couldn't be trusted. After having seen all that, if you're still on Lex's side then I don't know what to tell you.
I agree he doesnt owe him full disclosure but im more talking about the blatant lying and gaslighting.
"THIS IS SMALLVILLE! METEOR FREAKS, ALIEN SHIPS, CRYPTIC SYMBOLS...SOMEONE HAD TO TAKE CONTROL, SOMEONE HAS TO PROTECT THE WORLD!" ~Lex He has a point. The way he went about things was borderline either evil or anti-hero but what would you do if you had limitless wealth and there's weird things happening around you. Some black guy with super human powers threatens to kill you if you don't tell him the whereabouts of some guy named Kal-El. A giant spaceship crash lands in the middle of the field. Your "best friend" tosses you around like a bowling ball on 2 separate occasions with no explanation. What would you do as a powerless guy with nothing but money and genius IQ?
I think this is the exact quote that made me make this post because Clarks response to that is 'gee lex dont you sound a bit delusional?'
I get it, I understand that Pete was harassed for keeping Clark's secret and it is a dangerous secret to keep. I get that unlike his other friends, Lex is rich, powerful and capable of spilling the beans of Clark to the whole world. What I don't get is, if a guy is your best friend, why do you make him look like a fool every time just to protect your secret. Supergirl did the same thing to Lena and Lena called her out for it and had Supergirl groveling for her affections. Is it really so evil to look for explanations for all the weird things happening in smallville?
That's one of the reasons I like this iteration of the characters so much. Clark is not always morally irreproachable, and Lex is a complex and sympathetic villain. The writing in their interactions wasn't always perfect, but they both have points of view that the audience can understand and feel the conflict between. It makes for a good narrative.
I do like that Lex isnt just instantly evil from the start, there is an actual 'path to hell is laid with good intentions'