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Reminder: This is the same[ Sheriff's department](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBY4fDc3T9Y) that got spooked by an acorn, ninja rolled opened fire on the car... despite having already arrested the driver of said car.
Oh, btw, the car they opened fire on, was the fuckin cop car with the arrested driver in it. Bullets literally went whizzing past the guy who was detained in the back seat of the police vehicle. He did a whole interview about it after the fact and I believe he sued the city or police department.
Yup. That officer needed to be let go immediately. Like seriously, what would happen if a kid lit off a firecracker near him? He gonna light the kid up? Probably. So he needs to be removed from the force.
Minor correction, the officer opened fire *on his own car*, the man they arrested was in the back seat of the officer's vehicle. The acorn hit the roof of the officer's vehicle.
Wow no way! The same department? Seen a lot of threads on other socials discussing this blatant killing, but no link to that prior incident as of yet. Wild.
Not the same cops, but same Sheriff department (Okaloosa Sheriff's department to be exact. I suspect they are [Kilogy/Warrior](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html) trained department based on how often they think they under threat [so shoot first ....](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRJgCEWUXE&t=1s)
Okaloosa sheriff was indicted on [federal charges](https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/jacksonville/press-releases/2009/ja042309.htm) back in 2009. That department will never get its shit together
Wording sounds kinda weird in the end there, but the officer magdumped his pistol in the back of the police car, where said suspect was handcuffed and placed. Luckily he had a shit aim cause he missed all his shots.
Still this shows that they training is lacking, hear anything vaguely sounding like a gunshot, you draw and magdump every round counts in "Biden America."
Yeah. That's so ballistics can't identify the actual shooter. See, when you have now 40 identical rounds putting holes in things, it's hard to tell exactly which one
I know it's not funny since he could've killed someone, but I watched the video of that with the Corneria theme from Starfox NES playing in the background. If you ignore the fact that people were in the line of fire of a trigger-happy maniac, it makes the video so much more entertaining.
For the record here, they were directed to the wrong address by the downstairs Karen. They still shouldn't have fucking shot the dude for having a conversation with his girlfriend on FACETIME....
“We remain adamant that the police had the wrong apartment as Roger was on the phone with his girlfriend for a substantial amount of time leading up to the shooting, and no one else was in the apartment,” the statement said."
In a clip from the FaceTime video captured by Fortson’s cellphone, the airman can be heard groaning and saying, “I can’t breathe.” A deputy can be heard yelling back at him, “Stop moving!” The phone is pointed at the ceiling and does not show what is going on in the apartment.
No it doesn't. There is literally no justification for the cops actions. He knocked, hid from view, and immediately fired within seconds of opening the door. Seeing a gun isn't justification for murder. Guns are legal to own and carry. Reports of domestic disturbance aren't justification for murder. Especially when the person telling you where it happens says they aren't sure which apartment the disturbance came from.
You’re borderline excusing a cop murdering a man because maybe the cop was responding to a domestic albeit at the wrong address and party. The only problem is that responding to a domestic shouldn’t result in shooting citizens either.
Again, I ask you to point out where I’m now “borderline” excusing a cop (because I didn’t say it and didn’t imply it, now you’ve moved the goal posts).
Literally all I was commenting on was that responding to a possible domestic situation (if it was that) would raise the level of urgency in a police response. This was merely a comment on how police responses go, and not a comment on how this tragedy played out. People are so goddamn tribal that they see someone using even a little reasoning and talking about general context and instantly slam the downvote because they can’t begin to even consider what the person is actually saying.
Or, ya know, maybe the cop could start with “how’s your day going” instead of dumping half a mag in the first person they see when the door is answered.
It’s doesn’t matter. It’s a reality that cops will get the wrong address. If it ever happens to you just ignore them and call 911 on them if you need to.
If a person knock and dashes on my door two nights in a row, I might step outside to look and I might want to have a gun on me if I do that. I have a window that looks out on my door, so it's kinda hypothetical. When the police have come on various occasions, we've talked through the window or via phone.
Exactly, I don’t personally think it was a good shoot, and ACAB. However, sometimes self preservation relies on being smarter than the cops, which tbf, isn't that tough
I’d suspect that given he was active duty Air Force there will be federal involvement. The Air Force specifically doesn’t have much jurisdiction off the airbase but the federal government sure does, and this is the same department that had the acorn incident not that long ago.
Knocking on someone's door and hiding from the peephole isn't a great plan, either. Especially when you already think it's a heated situation. The guy then opens the door when the cop finally announces himself.
I think he was being baited outside and the cop didn't expect the gun. The urine running down his leg made him think he'd already been hit, and "killology" took over.
The correct answer when a cop knocks and you haven't called is: "Fuck off".
Had the cops do this to me (knock and hide around the edge of the door with drawn weapon) when they went to the wrong house. I thankfully survived (I have cameras). My boomer parents were shocked, just shocked! when I showed them the video and pointed out that if I had answered the door armed I would have died immediately.
"But you hadn't done anything! They just had the wrong door!"
I KNOW MOM THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT
Yeah, they both made mistakes but the cop's mistakes were criminal. And the victim's "mistake" was expecting to be safe in one's home--which *should* be a reasonable expectation, even if you're holding a gun. Unfortunately we live in a world where the hogs can just murder you so you have to adjust to that threat.
You are within your right to not answer the door unless they have a warrant, you should exercise that right. Police arent here to protect you they are here to accuse you
“I invoke my 5th amendment right to remain silent”
“I invoke my 6th amendment right to counsel”
“I do not consent to any searches of my property.”
“I do not consent to any searches beyond the scope of the warrant”
Which can - and will be - ignored by police.
>> And when a suspect in an interrogation told detectives to “just give me a lawyer dog,” the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled that the suspect was, in fact, asking for a “lawyer dog,” and not invoking his constitutional right to counsel. - [link](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02/the-suspect-told-police-give-me-a-lawyer-dog-the-court-says-he-wasnt-asking-for-a-lawyer/)
You’re in your fucking right to not get shot for opening up your own god damn door. Fuck the cop. Zero excuses. People need to stop victim blaming.
End of the god damn story.
You are fully within your right to just not as well.
Unless they have a warrant you should never, ever open your door.
Edit: And just to be clear, a physical warrant. If they say they have it, have them read it to you.
I wonder if the cops here were trained by Street Cop (the largest non-governmental police training organization in the US).
>An investigation by the Office of the State Comptroller (OSC) found the Street Cop training taught unconstitutional policing tactics, glorified violence, denigrated women and minorities, and likely violated a myriad of state laws and policies.
https://data.nj.gov/stories/s/NJ-Comptroller-Police-Training-Report/qr2h-vn6y/
These revelation has caused Street Cop to be banned in **ONLY** 9 states.
Ah, here we go
https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2024/04/28/brevard-sheriff-ivey-speak-police-training-orlando-street-cop-training/73431447007/
From last week:
>"Street Cop Training" comes to Orlando this Sunday. The cost to attend the event by the for-profit private company, that was banned in nine states last year, is only $699 per person.
Pressure your representatives to bring police training in-house if you want to have any hope.
That program should be banned nationwide. Also, the NYPD (and probably other large PDs in the country) cross train with the IDF. People should be asking why a foreign army has an office inside the NYPD.
One benefit that Israel provides the US which I rarely see mentioned is a laboratory to practice new technology and techniques on a real population. It's no accident that the tactics used by the IDF against the Palestinians get brought back home to be used on protesters in the US.
All of these injustices are connected. It's all part of the imperial project.
Yep. Ryan Whitaker is literally an identical situation where the cops shot a white guy that answered his door gun in hand. He was trying to put it down when he saw it was the cops and they still shot him.
Theres more and more of these situations where cops are shooting lawful gun owners because they’re being trained to freak out at the mere presence of a firearm.
Yes, I'm not saying cops don't kill white people. But they are much less likely to go straight to the gun. It's fucking bullshit this country is like that but here we are.
Absolutely true I have some first hand experience with the criminal justice system in America as a white man I have to stay it's fucking crazy what I got a ay with. I can confidently say if I wasn't white I would be a triple felon without a sealed record and I would have definitely done hard time in prison. Instead I got 3 years probation and was off in 1.5 for good behavior.
Police reform is a rising tide that raises all boats.
Not trying to ignore the racist policies at play, but the FBI has published crime statistics that include police shootings broken down by race.
Enough white people are being killed by white cops that blaming the issue on race is incorrect.
Body cameras and adjustments to qualified immunity protect us all. Making it about race, while valid on the surface, divided us and stopped the reforms from going through
“Enough white people are being killed by white cops that blaming the issue on race is incorrect.”
No, it’s blatantly correct. Black people make up about 21% of the overall population compared to like 65% of the population being white. But the number of white people killed by cops sure as fuck isn’t 3x higher than the number of black people killed by cops. Minorities, specifically black Americans are actually the ones that are about 3x more likely to be killed by police.
So it sure is a race issue. And a glaring one at that.
Police reform is a rising tide that raises all boats, on that you are correct. But police reform not going through has little to do with race being the blame, and more to do with the fact that the people in power just don’t want to see it happen-because the cops protect them.
Black American men are most likely to be killed by black cops.
White American men are most likely to be killed by white cops.
The idea that there are legions of bloodthirsty white cops trying to shoot every black man they see on patrol isn't backed up by the data.
In every precinct I've investigated, I've been FAR more likely to see racial policing expressed through stricter sentencing, more stop and frisks, harassment, warrant-less entries, usage of beanbag rounds, tasers, batons, etc.
All major problems. All worthy of reform.
The emphasis on race in the discussion of police reform was pushed by think tanks (funded by police unions) to defeat the momentum our movements had.
Continuing to discuss race as the primary motivator for police misbehavior and criminality is counterproductive
>The emphasis on race in the discussion of police reform was pushed by think tanks (funded by police unions) to defeat the momentum our movements had.
The goal of those in power is and has always been to seek more power and they do so by dividing people.
Hard disagree. We need to stop giving so much credence to the race narrative, because it makes white liberals feel like this won’t affect them when it very much will. I’ve seen this first hand on many, many occasions. The police are trained to view us ALL as an enemy, regardless of race. Now, I’m not trying to say that race plays no part, because a lot of these cops, probably most, have at least a degree of internal bias that comes out in these situations where they automatically view colored folks as more of a threat just by virtue of their skin color. But the reality is that cops will do this to anyone, regardless of color. It’s us vs them and they view it the same way. By saying “this only happens to colored people” we’re not only invalidating and forgetting all the countless examples of this very thing happening to non-colored people, but it gives non-colored people a false sense of security around cops. The “I’m white so I’ll get off” mindset exists even in leftist circles because it’s really, really easy to view it that way, especially when the media loves to make it seem like that is the truth. And again, I’m not saying that there’s no inherent privilege in being white, especially in the eyes of the law, but the fact is that the average cop isn’t just acting on racial bias. I can think of a case in either New Mexico or Arizona where almost this exact situation happened to a white guy, he opened the door armed, not expecting police, and they shot him dead in front of his wife immediately. This is an issue that goes much deeper than race at this point.
I'm from Florida where this happened and have literally answered the door, to cops, armed and yet I'm miraculously still alive. Never even pulled their guns let alone instantly mag dumped into me.
There is absolutely inherent privilege in being white in Florida when it comes to law enforcement.
It's a lot safer to be white, but the police still find ways to kill white people too. I live in Florida in a very conservative county. An older woman here was having a mental health crisis so her family called 911. She was a small woman with a knife in her hand. They shot her to death in her own home.
I’m not trying to argue with you brother, this is just something I feel strongly about. Again, I’m absolutely not trying to claim that skin color has no bearing on situations like this, because it very much does. I also don’t live in the south and I’m sure things are very different down there than in the north. But there are many, many cases of this stuff happening to white people too and I’m just making the point that we shouldn’t let that thinking influence either our decision-making or the way we view this issue. The issue isn’t “cops mistreat minorities” anymore, the issue is “cops can’t be trusted period in their communities.”
The fuck is there to talk about? Pigs murdered Roger Fortson in his own home, in broad daylight for no justifiable reason & got away with it.
This is the umpteenth time this scenario has played out & at least the *second* time in 3 months that this particular department has been in the national news cycle for their operating procedure of mag dump first, ask questions never.
We’re way past the stage of talking anything out. “Asking” for justice from an incompetent system is never going to get it delivered.
Yeah, we've already had a public referendum on this with the recent BLM protests. The cops won. No elected officials have any interest in any further painful confrontation with the police who are obviously not actually subordinate to the civil government as they are intended to be.
Honestly I can see why even the general public would be too burnt out at this point to cause too much of a fuss. Everyone knows that nothing good will happen, and there's always the risk of getting tear gassed and beaten and arrested by the inevitable cop-riot thrown in response to any serious public challenge of their authority.
Maybe I'm just doom-posting, but this exact thing was already fought over and the cops claimed decisive victory. GG no rematch for at least a long while.
Lots of folks in the military, while not being full ACAB, do not like police in the way many people would expect. It’s disgusting when the police violate the right of any citizen, but it’s apparent the police don’t extend their little shitty brotherhood culture to military (remember when they pepper-sprayed that black Army officer driving his car).
They dress up in our uniforms and beat citizens on the street. Insist they are not “civilians” despite being civil employees lol. Cosplaying as military so they can do their wittle no knock warrants on the wrong house.
We have tighter rules of engagement in the military.
I'm prior air force and I still frequent the sub. People are pissed.
A few over there brought up the question of what some of those upset had to say during 2020/2021 and the protests, and pointed out the hypocrisy. I wonder if it's actually got some people thinking now. If active duty military isn't safe, who else might not be..?
Maybe we see more people wake up to the reality of policing in the US?
According to the property manager when my friends moved in there a couple years ago, 50% or so of the residents at the apartments this happened at are active duty military. I'm sure if random people in the area know that, that the cops do too. This is how they acted *knowing* there was a good chance the person on the other side of the door was enlisted.
your post was removed because it advocated for offensive violence. Offensive violence is not what the SRA is about, and allowing calls for it on our sub, among many downsides, could get us banned. For this reason, it is not permitted.
I doubt any conservatives are going to fall over themselves to stand up for this soldier shot dead over a legally owned gun in his own home. The way I see it, the Second Amendment and castle doctrine doesn't seem to count when it's not serving white supremacy. The system is working as designed.
Actually from what I’ve seen on the military subreddits seems like there’s a lot of anger on both sides. Seems like this might be an incident that everyone can get behind.
I highly, highly doubt it. Conservatives will *always* back the state at the end of the day.
Re: Mulford Act, Philando Castile, Trump"s "take the guns first, due process later", disarming transgender individuals, etc. etc.
The question I would have is whether this spawns action or whether it spawns a short period of indignation, quickly justified away or otherwise forgotten. That's what I mean by "stand up"- will conservatives push for a law to be passed, will they join boycotts and street protests, substantially change their deference for law enforcement, etc?
Some advice for living in a fascist police state, don’t answer the door with a gun. Eve though you have the right to legally, you don’t really in practice.
You know we have to create a way to communicate how bad that really was without having to type it all out every time. I mean the ninja rolls were bad enough two cops mag dumping into a car with a suspect in it that they had just searched and cuffed so they knew he didn't have anything and they didn't hit their target. For the victim in this case that is a good thing. But how would you like either of them are in your area?
IMHO best practice is to open while armed is to partially open the door with a weapon concealed behind the door, a foot stopping the door from opening wide and a conciliatory but alert attitude.
Not blaming victims, but greatly avoiding becoming one
Counter point, if you need a gun when you open the door then I don’t think you need to open the door. Doorbell camera with a microphone or just talk through the door.
Where did this happen? This is fucking insane. Police need to be trained for YEARS instead of months, but preferably just thrown out entirely at this point. This man needs to be charged for murder. This is intentional homicide tbh.
Cops got called to an apartment complex because some Karen heard yelling, claimed it was domestic violence, neighbors direct police to the nearest black guy's unit, cop pounds on the door and then hides from the peep hole each time after beating on the door, guy answers the door with gun drawn and cop immediately unloads on active duty airforce guy killing him.
stay calm. respond respectfully with “do you have a warrant?” if they don’t, just kindly advise them to speak to your attorney and give them your attorney’s number. do not open your door, because then an officer can claim they saw something that justified forced entry.
[Reminder that in the last about year this same thing has happened in New Mexico and Arizona with cops going to the wrong door and someone who legally owns a firearm answers and the cops just start blasting.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna136491)
What I find odd is the silence from the “2A absolutist” chuds.
We can talk about it all you want, but it won't change anything until they stop hiring cowards who are taught to shoot at anything they even ***perceive*** as a threat.
All that said. Idk if I would answer the door for a cop still strapped. Dude knows what country we live in and that the police are trigger-happy babies that will mag dump on an acorn.
Cops show up at wrong house, knock on door, hide from peephole, guy answers door with gun bc he's suspicious, cop opens fire and kills the man before he's even got time to say "drop your weapon".
Tl;dr cop kills man doing nothing wrong
We need a follow up interview with the cop to see if Killologist David Grossmans exceptional sex after cop murder action is true or not. ACAB culture at it putrid worse.
It's not a sketchy neighborhood really, but that doesn't mean sketchy people can't show up. Those apartments aren't gated and don't have any security staff afaik.
People intending to do harm have been known to lie, it's not unreasonable to doubt the person banging on your door is not in fact law enforcement.
Answering YOUR door with a legally possessed firearm held at your side does not justify an immediate extrajudicial execution.
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If the cops are at your door and you didn’t call them, don’t answer.
Reminder: This is the same[ Sheriff's department](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBY4fDc3T9Y) that got spooked by an acorn, ninja rolled opened fire on the car... despite having already arrested the driver of said car.
Quality training. Quality pigs. And they wonder why nobody trusts them anymore.
Acorn fed pigs are most prized for their meat. There’s a joke here somewhere, but I can’t figure it out
Oh shit for real?? Same department? Haven't seen any media make that connection.
Both from the Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office
Fun off topic fact: Okaloosa means black water in Choctaw. Source: am Choctaw
Oh, btw, the car they opened fire on, was the fuckin cop car with the arrested driver in it. Bullets literally went whizzing past the guy who was detained in the back seat of the police vehicle. He did a whole interview about it after the fact and I believe he sued the city or police department.
Not only that, the guy was handcuffed and had been searched twice, and the cop STILL thought that he somehow conjured up a weapon out of thin air
Yup. That officer needed to be let go immediately. Like seriously, what would happen if a kid lit off a firecracker near him? He gonna light the kid up? Probably. So he needs to be removed from the force.
Minor correction, the officer opened fire *on his own car*, the man they arrested was in the back seat of the officer's vehicle. The acorn hit the roof of the officer's vehicle.
Oh ffs are you serious? That's ridiculous
Wow no way! The same department? Seen a lot of threads on other socials discussing this blatant killing, but no link to that prior incident as of yet. Wild.
Not the same cops, but same Sheriff department (Okaloosa Sheriff's department to be exact. I suspect they are [Kilogy/Warrior](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html) trained department based on how often they think they under threat [so shoot first ....](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRJgCEWUXE&t=1s)
Okaloosa sheriff was indicted on [federal charges](https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/jacksonville/press-releases/2009/ja042309.htm) back in 2009. That department will never get its shit together
Wording sounds kinda weird in the end there, but the officer magdumped his pistol in the back of the police car, where said suspect was handcuffed and placed. Luckily he had a shit aim cause he missed all his shots. Still this shows that they training is lacking, hear anything vaguely sounding like a gunshot, you draw and magdump every round counts in "Biden America."
BOTH officers on scene mag dumped into their own cruiser!
Yeah. That's so ballistics can't identify the actual shooter. See, when you have now 40 identical rounds putting holes in things, it's hard to tell exactly which one
makes sense
I know it's not funny since he could've killed someone, but I watched the video of that with the Corneria theme from Starfox NES playing in the background. If you ignore the fact that people were in the line of fire of a trigger-happy maniac, it makes the video so much more entertaining.
Link?
“If you’ve got a warrant feel free to kick my door in, otherwise I suggest you fuck off” is what I was taught.
It was the wrong address.
Then let them stand out there and knock all night.
For the record here, they were directed to the wrong address by the downstairs Karen. They still shouldn't have fucking shot the dude for having a conversation with his girlfriend on FACETIME.... “We remain adamant that the police had the wrong apartment as Roger was on the phone with his girlfriend for a substantial amount of time leading up to the shooting, and no one else was in the apartment,” the statement said." In a clip from the FaceTime video captured by Fortson’s cellphone, the airman can be heard groaning and saying, “I can’t breathe.” A deputy can be heard yelling back at him, “Stop moving!” The phone is pointed at the ceiling and does not show what is going on in the apartment.
Was it a reported domestic disturbance?
It was the wrong address.
I get that, but a domestic disturbance raises the response level a bit. If it was one.
No it doesn't. There is literally no justification for the cops actions. He knocked, hid from view, and immediately fired within seconds of opening the door. Seeing a gun isn't justification for murder. Guns are legal to own and carry. Reports of domestic disturbance aren't justification for murder. Especially when the person telling you where it happens says they aren't sure which apartment the disturbance came from.
Please point to where I said a domestic disturbance is justification for murder. Don’t read what you want to read out of something I said.
You’re borderline excusing a cop murdering a man because maybe the cop was responding to a domestic albeit at the wrong address and party. The only problem is that responding to a domestic shouldn’t result in shooting citizens either.
Again, I ask you to point out where I’m now “borderline” excusing a cop (because I didn’t say it and didn’t imply it, now you’ve moved the goal posts). Literally all I was commenting on was that responding to a possible domestic situation (if it was that) would raise the level of urgency in a police response. This was merely a comment on how police responses go, and not a comment on how this tragedy played out. People are so goddamn tribal that they see someone using even a little reasoning and talking about general context and instantly slam the downvote because they can’t begin to even consider what the person is actually saying.
Doesn't matter. If there was a domestic disturbance, it was somewhere else, they at the wrong place.
Nope. My ex was arrested for aggravated DV and no one even pulled a taser on him.
Still doesn’t mean a domestic disturbance, ya know, where someone could possibly be in danger, doesn’t raise the response level.
Or, ya know, maybe the cop could start with “how’s your day going” instead of dumping half a mag in the first person they see when the door is answered.
No. That's not how the proper escalation of force works.
It’s doesn’t matter. It’s a reality that cops will get the wrong address. If it ever happens to you just ignore them and call 911 on them if you need to.
Especially not with a gun in your hand, on your person, on the counter, anywhere near you. If you're going to shoot at them, do it through the door
Allegedly there had been a suspicious knock on the door the previous night and the homeowner didn't know it was police.
"Suspicious" knock? Don't answer the door, in both situations this guy would still be alive, yell through the door.
If a person knock and dashes on my door two nights in a row, I might step outside to look and I might want to have a gun on me if I do that. I have a window that looks out on my door, so it's kinda hypothetical. When the police have come on various occasions, we've talked through the window or via phone.
Exactly, I don’t personally think it was a good shoot, and ACAB. However, sometimes self preservation relies on being smarter than the cops, which tbf, isn't that tough
This is blatant murder
 Yep
Also a good ad for peepholes
He said (I think to whomever he was on Zoom with) that it looked like someone was covering up his peep hole, that is why he went and got his gun.
Is the military ok with the cops just outright being let off Scot free for this one?
Don’t seem to be. I saw a bunch of them raging about this on IG. Consensus seems to be that the airman was unlawfully murdered.
Yes, and on r/AirForce
I’d suspect that given he was active duty Air Force there will be federal involvement. The Air Force specifically doesn’t have much jurisdiction off the airbase but the federal government sure does, and this is the same department that had the acorn incident not that long ago.
From what I’ve seen OSI can’t just go snag the cop but hopefully they add on the pressure to prosecute the pig
Knocking on someone's door and hiding from the peephole isn't a great plan, either. Especially when you already think it's a heated situation. The guy then opens the door when the cop finally announces himself. I think he was being baited outside and the cop didn't expect the gun. The urine running down his leg made him think he'd already been hit, and "killology" took over. The correct answer when a cop knocks and you haven't called is: "Fuck off".
Had the cops do this to me (knock and hide around the edge of the door with drawn weapon) when they went to the wrong house. I thankfully survived (I have cameras). My boomer parents were shocked, just shocked! when I showed them the video and pointed out that if I had answered the door armed I would have died immediately. "But you hadn't done anything! They just had the wrong door!" I KNOW MOM THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT
Yeah, they both made mistakes but the cop's mistakes were criminal. And the victim's "mistake" was expecting to be safe in one's home--which *should* be a reasonable expectation, even if you're holding a gun. Unfortunately we live in a world where the hogs can just murder you so you have to adjust to that threat.
Especially when Karen has directed them to the wrong apartment
Another fuckingvreason never to open the door. Never never never
You are fully in your right to open the door just enough to squeeze your body through and talk to the officer, calmly, from outside of your house.
Ok, but why? Do you always answer the door for gang members? Unless homie has a valid warrant or equivalent legal paperwork they can pound sand.
You are within your right to not answer the door unless they have a warrant, you should exercise that right. Police arent here to protect you they are here to accuse you “I invoke my 5th amendment right to remain silent” “I invoke my 6th amendment right to counsel” “I do not consent to any searches of my property.” “I do not consent to any searches beyond the scope of the warrant”
Also known as "shut the fuck up"
Which can - and will be - ignored by police. >> And when a suspect in an interrogation told detectives to “just give me a lawyer dog,” the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled that the suspect was, in fact, asking for a “lawyer dog,” and not invoking his constitutional right to counsel. - [link](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02/the-suspect-told-police-give-me-a-lawyer-dog-the-court-says-he-wasnt-asking-for-a-lawyer/)
Lmao WHAT?!?
Yeah that lawyer dog case is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. I can't believe they got away with that.
You have a copy that’s not behind a paywall?
12ft.io brother
You’re in your fucking right to not get shot for opening up your own god damn door. Fuck the cop. Zero excuses. People need to stop victim blaming. End of the god damn story.
You are fully within your right to just not as well. Unless they have a warrant you should never, ever open your door. Edit: And just to be clear, a physical warrant. If they say they have it, have them read it to you.
You would likely get physically pulled outside if you try this
Why? You’re fully in your rights to talk to them through the door without opening yourself up to having them push inside
You are fully in your rights to not open the door and refuse completely, too. If they don’t have a warrant, they can fuck off
Cop shoots him the second the door opens and he get's a clear shot and shoots him multiple times.
...and *then* tells the victim to put down the gun. Straight up murder. "Step back (so I can get a better shot when I mag dump this thing)."
I wonder if the cops here were trained by Street Cop (the largest non-governmental police training organization in the US). >An investigation by the Office of the State Comptroller (OSC) found the Street Cop training taught unconstitutional policing tactics, glorified violence, denigrated women and minorities, and likely violated a myriad of state laws and policies. https://data.nj.gov/stories/s/NJ-Comptroller-Police-Training-Report/qr2h-vn6y/ These revelation has caused Street Cop to be banned in **ONLY** 9 states. Ah, here we go https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2024/04/28/brevard-sheriff-ivey-speak-police-training-orlando-street-cop-training/73431447007/ From last week: >"Street Cop Training" comes to Orlando this Sunday. The cost to attend the event by the for-profit private company, that was banned in nine states last year, is only $699 per person. Pressure your representatives to bring police training in-house if you want to have any hope.
>Banned in *nine states* last year They see that as a feature, not a bug. It means they’re *doing the right stuff*.
That program should be banned nationwide. Also, the NYPD (and probably other large PDs in the country) cross train with the IDF. People should be asking why a foreign army has an office inside the NYPD. One benefit that Israel provides the US which I rarely see mentioned is a laboratory to practice new technology and techniques on a real population. It's no accident that the tactics used by the IDF against the Palestinians get brought back home to be used on protesters in the US. All of these injustices are connected. It's all part of the imperial project.
Wow I had no idea thanks https://documentedny.com/2018/09/12/report-criticizes-nypd-collaboration-with-israel/
And as a Floridaman who has answered the door multiple times armed, this wouldn't have happened if he was white.
Ryan Whitaker and Daniel Shaver would disagree.
Yep. Ryan Whitaker is literally an identical situation where the cops shot a white guy that answered his door gun in hand. He was trying to put it down when he saw it was the cops and they still shot him. Theres more and more of these situations where cops are shooting lawful gun owners because they’re being trained to freak out at the mere presence of a firearm.
It would be less likely to happen but there have been a few white gun owners who died in this same way.
Yes, I'm not saying cops don't kill white people. But they are much less likely to go straight to the gun. It's fucking bullshit this country is like that but here we are.
Absolutely true I have some first hand experience with the criminal justice system in America as a white man I have to stay it's fucking crazy what I got a ay with. I can confidently say if I wasn't white I would be a triple felon without a sealed record and I would have definitely done hard time in prison. Instead I got 3 years probation and was off in 1.5 for good behavior.
We should be lucky they want equality and not revenge.
Police reform is a rising tide that raises all boats. Not trying to ignore the racist policies at play, but the FBI has published crime statistics that include police shootings broken down by race. Enough white people are being killed by white cops that blaming the issue on race is incorrect. Body cameras and adjustments to qualified immunity protect us all. Making it about race, while valid on the surface, divided us and stopped the reforms from going through
Cops kill poor people, and black people are disproportionately poor compared with white people.
"We investigated ourselves and found we've done nothing wrong. Trust your government and police have your best interests at heart"
“Enough white people are being killed by white cops that blaming the issue on race is incorrect.” No, it’s blatantly correct. Black people make up about 21% of the overall population compared to like 65% of the population being white. But the number of white people killed by cops sure as fuck isn’t 3x higher than the number of black people killed by cops. Minorities, specifically black Americans are actually the ones that are about 3x more likely to be killed by police. So it sure is a race issue. And a glaring one at that. Police reform is a rising tide that raises all boats, on that you are correct. But police reform not going through has little to do with race being the blame, and more to do with the fact that the people in power just don’t want to see it happen-because the cops protect them.
Black American men are most likely to be killed by black cops. White American men are most likely to be killed by white cops. The idea that there are legions of bloodthirsty white cops trying to shoot every black man they see on patrol isn't backed up by the data. In every precinct I've investigated, I've been FAR more likely to see racial policing expressed through stricter sentencing, more stop and frisks, harassment, warrant-less entries, usage of beanbag rounds, tasers, batons, etc. All major problems. All worthy of reform. The emphasis on race in the discussion of police reform was pushed by think tanks (funded by police unions) to defeat the momentum our movements had. Continuing to discuss race as the primary motivator for police misbehavior and criminality is counterproductive
Can you cite your source for “black men are killed by black cops and white men are killed by white cops”? Cause that sounds like horseshit.
Cops kill poor people. Plain and simple, they do not work for us.
That much is not up for debate. 100% agree
FBI crime statistics. They used to publish quarterly, then yearly, then stopped publishing at all. Their last report was in 2019
>Cops oh ok sounds legit
Substitute Law Enforcement Officers in place of cops if you like
I didn’t ask if you could tell me where you misread your info, I asked if you could cite it.
Needlessly hostile. Lets not lose our gunrights. We're on the same team. FBI.gov
>The emphasis on race in the discussion of police reform was pushed by think tanks (funded by police unions) to defeat the momentum our movements had. The goal of those in power is and has always been to seek more power and they do so by dividing people.
Hard disagree. We need to stop giving so much credence to the race narrative, because it makes white liberals feel like this won’t affect them when it very much will. I’ve seen this first hand on many, many occasions. The police are trained to view us ALL as an enemy, regardless of race. Now, I’m not trying to say that race plays no part, because a lot of these cops, probably most, have at least a degree of internal bias that comes out in these situations where they automatically view colored folks as more of a threat just by virtue of their skin color. But the reality is that cops will do this to anyone, regardless of color. It’s us vs them and they view it the same way. By saying “this only happens to colored people” we’re not only invalidating and forgetting all the countless examples of this very thing happening to non-colored people, but it gives non-colored people a false sense of security around cops. The “I’m white so I’ll get off” mindset exists even in leftist circles because it’s really, really easy to view it that way, especially when the media loves to make it seem like that is the truth. And again, I’m not saying that there’s no inherent privilege in being white, especially in the eyes of the law, but the fact is that the average cop isn’t just acting on racial bias. I can think of a case in either New Mexico or Arizona where almost this exact situation happened to a white guy, he opened the door armed, not expecting police, and they shot him dead in front of his wife immediately. This is an issue that goes much deeper than race at this point.
I'm from Florida where this happened and have literally answered the door, to cops, armed and yet I'm miraculously still alive. Never even pulled their guns let alone instantly mag dumped into me. There is absolutely inherent privilege in being white in Florida when it comes to law enforcement.
It's a lot safer to be white, but the police still find ways to kill white people too. I live in Florida in a very conservative county. An older woman here was having a mental health crisis so her family called 911. She was a small woman with a knife in her hand. They shot her to death in her own home.
I’m not trying to argue with you brother, this is just something I feel strongly about. Again, I’m absolutely not trying to claim that skin color has no bearing on situations like this, because it very much does. I also don’t live in the south and I’m sure things are very different down there than in the north. But there are many, many cases of this stuff happening to white people too and I’m just making the point that we shouldn’t let that thinking influence either our decision-making or the way we view this issue. The issue isn’t “cops mistreat minorities” anymore, the issue is “cops can’t be trusted period in their communities.”
Totally agree. My mistake.
I’m glad we agree and that we could do this in good faith, wasnt trying to start an argument! Have a good one
You too homie. I wish you good fortune in the wars to come.
Guess im colored then cause they sure as fuck had guns on me when they pulled me from my car.
They are organized crime.
Damn this was an incredibly ignorant statement.
The fuck is there to talk about? Pigs murdered Roger Fortson in his own home, in broad daylight for no justifiable reason & got away with it. This is the umpteenth time this scenario has played out & at least the *second* time in 3 months that this particular department has been in the national news cycle for their operating procedure of mag dump first, ask questions never. We’re way past the stage of talking anything out. “Asking” for justice from an incompetent system is never going to get it delivered.
Yeah, we've already had a public referendum on this with the recent BLM protests. The cops won. No elected officials have any interest in any further painful confrontation with the police who are obviously not actually subordinate to the civil government as they are intended to be. Honestly I can see why even the general public would be too burnt out at this point to cause too much of a fuss. Everyone knows that nothing good will happen, and there's always the risk of getting tear gassed and beaten and arrested by the inevitable cop-riot thrown in response to any serious public challenge of their authority. Maybe I'm just doom-posting, but this exact thing was already fought over and the cops claimed decisive victory. GG no rematch for at least a long while.
Take a read over on r/airforce. The whole subredit is turning very ACAB minded
Lots of folks in the military, while not being full ACAB, do not like police in the way many people would expect. It’s disgusting when the police violate the right of any citizen, but it’s apparent the police don’t extend their little shitty brotherhood culture to military (remember when they pepper-sprayed that black Army officer driving his car). They dress up in our uniforms and beat citizens on the street. Insist they are not “civilians” despite being civil employees lol. Cosplaying as military so they can do their wittle no knock warrants on the wrong house. We have tighter rules of engagement in the military.
/veterans too
I'm prior air force and I still frequent the sub. People are pissed. A few over there brought up the question of what some of those upset had to say during 2020/2021 and the protests, and pointed out the hypocrisy. I wonder if it's actually got some people thinking now. If active duty military isn't safe, who else might not be..? Maybe we see more people wake up to the reality of policing in the US?
Yes my spouse is military and mad as hell.
According to the property manager when my friends moved in there a couple years ago, 50% or so of the residents at the apartments this happened at are active duty military. I'm sure if random people in the area know that, that the cops do too. This is how they acted *knowing* there was a good chance the person on the other side of the door was enlisted.
These cops should face a military tribunal.
A firing squad.
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your post was removed because it advocated for offensive violence. Offensive violence is not what the SRA is about, and allowing calls for it on our sub, among many downsides, could get us banned. For this reason, it is not permitted.
I used to live in Okaloosa county and the cops there are un fucking hinged
I doubt any conservatives are going to fall over themselves to stand up for this soldier shot dead over a legally owned gun in his own home. The way I see it, the Second Amendment and castle doctrine doesn't seem to count when it's not serving white supremacy. The system is working as designed.
Actually from what I’ve seen on the military subreddits seems like there’s a lot of anger on both sides. Seems like this might be an incident that everyone can get behind.
I highly, highly doubt it. Conservatives will *always* back the state at the end of the day. Re: Mulford Act, Philando Castile, Trump"s "take the guns first, due process later", disarming transgender individuals, etc. etc.
This person gets it. I wish it weren't so, but that's how it is.
The question I would have is whether this spawns action or whether it spawns a short period of indignation, quickly justified away or otherwise forgotten. That's what I mean by "stand up"- will conservatives push for a law to be passed, will they join boycotts and street protests, substantially change their deference for law enforcement, etc?
I dunno my spouse is military & PISSED
Some advice for living in a fascist police state, don’t answer the door with a gun. Eve though you have the right to legally, you don’t really in practice.
Reminder: This is the same[ Sheriff's department](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBY4fDc3T9Y) that got spooked by an acorn and opened fire.
Lmao it is? You can't make this shit it up.
You know we have to create a way to communicate how bad that really was without having to type it all out every time. I mean the ninja rolls were bad enough two cops mag dumping into a car with a suspect in it that they had just searched and cuffed so they knew he didn't have anything and they didn't hit their target. For the victim in this case that is a good thing. But how would you like either of them are in your area?
Same county as the acorn incident 😑
Well that actually makes more sense
You should have stopped at "don't answer the door". The rest is moot.
Good point!
IMHO best practice is to open while armed is to partially open the door with a weapon concealed behind the door, a foot stopping the door from opening wide and a conciliatory but alert attitude. Not blaming victims, but greatly avoiding becoming one
Yea to be clear I’m not blaming the victim, I want to avoid having any future victims.
Counter point, if you need a gun when you open the door then I don’t think you need to open the door. Doorbell camera with a microphone or just talk through the door.
Excellent point, communicate remote if you can
Yep. Practice firing with both hands at the range and use a gun/caliber you can control with either hand.
It's crazy to me that Police aren't held to any standards of engagement like that Airmen was.
Where did this happen? This is fucking insane. Police need to be trained for YEARS instead of months, but preferably just thrown out entirely at this point. This man needs to be charged for murder. This is intentional homicide tbh.
Florida
it’s insane that service members in literal fucking combat often have stricter RoEs than the pigs on the street.
This was the same cop who freaked out and unloaded his mag when the acorn hit the roof of the cruiser right?
No but same department
Only if you talk about what is to be done about it.
Oh gosh, what happened now?
Cops got called to an apartment complex because some Karen heard yelling, claimed it was domestic violence, neighbors direct police to the nearest black guy's unit, cop pounds on the door and then hides from the peep hole each time after beating on the door, guy answers the door with gun drawn and cop immediately unloads on active duty airforce guy killing him.
That's horrible
stay calm. respond respectfully with “do you have a warrant?” if they don’t, just kindly advise them to speak to your attorney and give them your attorney’s number. do not open your door, because then an officer can claim they saw something that justified forced entry.
ACAB Conversation over.
[Reminder that in the last about year this same thing has happened in New Mexico and Arizona with cops going to the wrong door and someone who legally owns a firearm answers and the cops just start blasting.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna136491) What I find odd is the silence from the “2A absolutist” chuds.
Odd? No. He wasn’t white.
[For those who apparently live under rocks](https://youtu.be/pILp1yQBijc?si=8JTVfEtnIZeMmDrM)
We can talk about it all you want, but it won't change anything until they stop hiring cowards who are taught to shoot at anything they even ***perceive*** as a threat. All that said. Idk if I would answer the door for a cop still strapped. Dude knows what country we live in and that the police are trigger-happy babies that will mag dump on an acorn.
Whats the context of this?
Cops show up at wrong house, knock on door, hide from peephole, guy answers door with gun bc he's suspicious, cop opens fire and kills the man before he's even got time to say "drop your weapon". Tl;dr cop kills man doing nothing wrong
[In case you live under a rock](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/s/F8KqjySFAd)
You got the video the screenshot was taken from there chief?
didnt see the vid but, anyway i started blasing is ply what happens next.
> "Are we gonna talk about this?" > Provides literally no further information
We need a follow up interview with the cop to see if Killologist David Grossmans exceptional sex after cop murder action is true or not. ACAB culture at it putrid worse.
What?
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Apparently he did not know it was the police according to some articles I read but have yet to see the video to confirm.
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Doesn’t mean it was heard
Also doesn't mean it's actually the police. Quite literally anyone can shout the words "open up, police!"
From what I've heard this has become an increasingly common tactic for violent robbers to use so he's not dumb for assuming they were robbers.
Right. And from what I read, a pretty sketchy neighborhood so I don’t blame him for not believing it’s cops.
It's not a sketchy neighborhood really, but that doesn't mean sketchy people can't show up. Those apartments aren't gated and don't have any security staff afaik.
People intending to do harm have been known to lie, it's not unreasonable to doubt the person banging on your door is not in fact law enforcement. Answering YOUR door with a legally possessed firearm held at your side does not justify an immediate extrajudicial execution.
I could come to your door screaming that I'm a cop