Well Gwen was created as a Liz Allen 2.0 in Lee/Ditko era. And had the same arc of mean girl who bullies the main character then turns into a love interest to the main character. Both also had a love triangle with a girl Peter was seeing. Both do have the same vibe.
Gwen is so sketchy. I have a feeling that Harry is going to die in some way (maybe killed by the Kingpin?) and Gwen will take over as the Green Goblin. But instead of being a vigilante like Harry has been so far, she’ll be a full-on villain looking to get revenge on Peter for letting him die.
Damn, this isn't the trans Spider-Person rep I was expecting for this version of the Ultimate Universe, but I'm not against it. I still miss Jessica though.
Jessica Drew?
She's not trans, she's always been a girl. Both the 616 and 1610. Although the 1610 is a bit nebulous because she starts as a female clone of Peter, but she's been female her entire life, she never transitioned.
But I prefer 616 Jessica Drew, because I like her super spy background.
Gwen Goblin could be a thing, especially since this is Stark armor, that could hide that she's not the same person.
However... I believe Spider-Gwen, while not longer "Gwenom", still relies on Venom-65 for her powers (Earth-65 Venom being an artificial creation unrelated to the concept of 616 Symbiotes). And the new 6160 Spider-Man's suit seems to be Venom-6160 (being able to move like liquid, initially being the black suit, and even starting as a black sphere before attaching to Peter), but instead is technological- and created by Tony Stark or Stane-Stark Tech. Which has now been acquired by Oscorp. Which Gwen is the CEO of.
So it really *feels like* everything is set up to perfectly lead into Gwen-6160 becoming Ghost Spider. But we'll have to see.
Marvel will not accept that scenario in a thousand years. The gwen goblins of the multiverse, and there are two, are only such due to a total loss of sanity and in the end they are victims of themselves. Marvel will NOT make a full-fledged villainous Gwen. The community already gave them a good spanking for Slott's Felicia Queenping at the time. Imagine if they did something similar to Gwen...
Slott turning Felicia into the Queenpin was just a bad idea from top to bottom, starting from that godawful name.
This is a new Gwen who has already been established to be immoral at best, and a full on criminal at worst. If it fits the story I can’t imagine them stopping Hickman from doing it. Hickman has so much clout that I very much doubt that he gets any serious notes from editorial like that.
> This is a new Gwen who has already been established to be immoral at best, and a full on criminal at worst.
This is a little bit of an exaggeration, no?
I mean, she’s clearly trying to launder money into Ben and JJJ’s new paper. Throw in this preview and she’s clearly a pretty sketchy businesswoman. But maybe my distaste for billionaire executives is making me biased, who knows?
As a diehard anarcho-communist myself I sympathize, but I think it's a little early to accuse her of money laundering, lol If Gwen is shady for being interested in Ben and JJJ's paper and being a billionaire then so is Harry (which, I mean...yes.) But the NDA on Otto seems like it's partly to protect she and Harry in their endeavors as the Goblin, which is honestly pretty reasonable, all things considered. I do agree that there's something suspicious about her, but it's still too early IMO to call her an immoral criminal just yet.
My prediction is that she’s collaborating with the Maker’s secret council. They run Stark’s old company right after the Maker framed Tony for a terrorist attack, that can’t be a coincidence.
I could for sure see that. Especially because it means that, no matter how intense Harry's antics as the Goblin get, he's still ultimately controlled opposition.
Spiderman is not as free a universe as Xmen. Hickman doesn't have the same level of freedom here as he does with Xmen. People don't want to see certain characters dirty or corrupt and Hickman knows that.
And let's be honest...If Harry dies because of Peter and Gwen evolves into Gwen Goblin the victim will be MJ, "My husband for your wife." Vendettas work like this, in an inversely proportional way. It is NOT going to happen because...If they do that to Gwen...nor will the entire marriage resistance block, which is currently like 20-25% of Spiderman readers (the other 75% is the sum of Felicia Gwen (anyone or single) will be able to stop the decline in sales
Hickman spearheaded development on the new Ultimate Universe. He presumably has just as much freedom as he usually does, since this isn’t set in 616.
You’re doing a whole lot of assuming what will happen if Gwen turns out to be a villain. I’m sure that if that happens, she’ll try to get back at Peter by going after his family, but that doesn’t mean she’s going to be successful at it.
And even if she is successful, I don’t really see that affecting sales significantly. Spider-Man literally always sells well, and Hickman is probably the most well-respected writer in comics today. That’s a guarantee that it’ll sell well regardless of who lives or dies.
Hickman is far from being the most respected current writer, although he will surely enter the top5. But there are rules about iconic characters regardless of the universe. People DO NOT like to see certain characters dirty or corrupt.
The sales? Amazing without the variants would not be selling even half and in Ultimate at the moment everything is nice and happy but as soon as something happens that hits readers hard things will change quickly
I accept that Marvel agrees to make Gwen a villain if you accept that they agree to kill MJ. Equal footing. If they are Capable of one thing they are also Capable of the other, and we have seen how extremely sensitive everyone is about these things so it is all or nothing. Let no one expect a unilateral risk like that.
Not that Felicia and Gwen aren't popular in the comic ASM fandom but 75% is way too generous, they would mostly amount to 30-40% combined. Most of the fanbase reading Spider-Man are PeterMJ fan (or just fan of the character) since their marriage is almost 1/3 of the book.
Peter's most famous adaptations are always with MJ (Raimi, ITSV/ATSV, Insomniac, 90s Animation). Peter's most popular kid is Mayday who he has with MJ. The marriage is literally the heart and soul of Kraven's Last Hunt (The most famous ASM story) and it's a love letter to PeterMJ, it probably has a fanbase on it's own.
USM is one of the most popular book in the past 5 years (or even since 2007 since it's bringing old and new comic book reader) because of PeterMJ's marriage and him finally being able to grow old. ASM is making 43% of the sell of what USM is making. If the "marriage resistance" consist only of 20-25% USM wouldn't be able to sell so much and ASM wouldn't have to change direction with the whole Paul and kids thing.
You can have your own opinion but stop lying. I always see you making up statistics to make your fav look good.
No. MJ's total fandom is not much more than 20-25%. If you count only the Spiderman reader there are 4 groups. MJ CAT GWEN...and a fourth group that cares little about this issue or prefers something else, like Kityy who is highly loved among those initiated with Ultimate. Of the 4 groups this is the smallest, MJ the largest, Cat the second largest and Gwen the third. But if you combine the three MJ you lose too much of the total. Even separately MJ would not have any overwhelming difference compared to the other groups.
Gwen has risen a lot since the Spectacular series and the Emma Stone movie. Between 2008 and 2017 MJ lost a lot of popular ground and between 2018 and 2021 Felicia rose in popularity at a dizzying pace. MJ only has the support of a part of the fandom of the 80s-90s and a small group of young people who grew up in the 2000s with that inherited material, but nothing more.
If we go to the mass public, the one that consumes or enjoys characters beyond the comic in games, cosplay, fanart, movies, etc. etc...Felicia wins and by a lot and then SpiderGwen (although she is not THAT Gwen)
The vast majority of Spiderman products with MJ, you must remember, were made when the marriage was active. All that Disappears after 2008. Literally until 2017 nothing of MJ is seen again and not even that because Zendaya's is not "MJ". We have to wait for the Spiderverse and Insomniac movie that SONY, NOT MARVEL, make in 2018.
Many MANY people who are NOT fans of Peter and MJ buy the new Ultimate BECAUSE OF THE CREATIVE TEAM!. You have to be VERY naive to believe that Ultimate is only bought by marriage readers. If only those readers bought it, sales would be in half. Most people DO NOT put that marriage before the writer, the artist and the quality of the book. If those three things are good for people, they will buy the book and if they are not, they will not.
Do you even know how math works? You are saying MJ is the largest group but then go on to say she is in between 20-25%? That means all the groups are proportionally equal. You are contradicting you're own statement.
Gwen is popular in outside media (but mostly spider-gwen), she is still dead in ASM. Whenever she appears most of the fanbase gets angry and annoyed. Felicia is not more popular than MJ in comics, that's a joke. MJ, a supporting character with no power and a love interest nonetheless, had her own series in 2005-2007 and ongoing in 2019. Which is uncommon for a character like her. And black cat who has powers and a costume couldn't get one til maybe 2006 and then in 2019.
MJ's first introduction is still one of the most iconic panel and line of all time and used in other comics as a homage, the upside-down kiss is still one of the best kiss in all cinema that is replicated in numerous other media. Whenever there is a Spider-Man movie, one of the first question is "who is playing MJ?". Heck, the only reason people even want 90s Spider-Man animation back is so that they could see Peter and MJ back together again.
Black Cat and MJ are both popular in the fanarts and games. Cosplay is mostly spider-gwen and black cat because they have a costume in store whereas MJ is a civilian, so there isn't much for her in that departement except for a red hair and most of the cosplayer wants to stand out in what fandom they are in. But that doesn't really add anything to the reader fanbase because most can be fan of other media than comics.
Most of the comics in BND era used MJ as a prop to boost sales in their covers, they always tease the devil deal because they know the fandom will eat it up. Wasn't Peter and Felicia together during BND era or somewhere in between 2007-2017? That still didn't boost up anything.
The only reason there was no products for MJ after OMD was basically to try to undermine her popularity, as we see now it didn't work and she came back with full force. She is in Fortnite 2 times (I count Michelle as MJ), something that the OG Gwen or black cat is not considered to be in. Heck Felicia doesn't even have a movie appearance except TASM 2 for a brief cameo. Either way, this is outside media, we are talking about comics.
If Gwen and Felicia are as popular as MJ, they would have their own comic universe with Peter as an ongoing or at least have the fans talk about it, alas they dont't. Spider-Gwen is popular on her own and because of ITSV/ATSV. MJ has Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, Spider-Girl, RYV, OG Ultimate and now the new Ultimate.
Most people don't even know Hickman, heck I didn't know who he was. I left comics during Beyond because it was getting boring. I only came back because of the announcement of USM and I don't doubt most also did. Nobody talked or still talks about Ultimate Invasion which was also written by Jonathan Hickman. YOU would be naive to think the popularity of PeterMJ is so low. They're one of the main promotion of USM, nobody was talking about the new USM until they dropped the Parker family with PeterMJ. Look it all the covers, this RYV all over again.
RYV was supposed to be a 5 issues story but because of its popularity became an ongoing (even though it was written by Dan Slott) until they messed that up but it is still talked about. Nobody trusted Spencer or even liked him after Captain America and Hydra but once he brought PeterMJ together, sells escalated.
And please don't reply to me again cause I know you will just try to undermine MJ's popularity again as you have done with others in reddit. I know Felicia and Gwen are popular but not as much as MJ, even combined, in the reader fanbase. If you want to believe that they are, well that's your believe.
I have told you that the mass audience is not the same as the comics audience. Outside of the comic MJ has no real strength, but within the comic itself it does not win by a significant majority but by a simple majority. Ultimate MJ is not as popular even if she is more popular than Kitty, but Kitty is particularly the most mentioned within Ultimate.
Felicia TODAY is more popular than MJ just as she was between 1981 and 1985. And let's not talk about the volume of material because there is no color. MJ couldn't stand a mini of 5 and only his number 1 reached the top33 of his year. BC1 reached the top 5 of its year and the series, counting 2 minis, was 33 issues and 2 annuals. Not to mention that they don't take MJ away from them at all, even to sell Jackpot. She is also the girl with the most appeal for future films and the one who is most talked about in the Insomniac game. And their material from 2002-2006, that of MarvelKnights and KevinSmith, has also been reissued.
In BND there were covers of everything, and one of the most famous, perhaps THE MOST, is the one with Felicia's big kiss in front of MJ Of all, BND is the cover with the most alternate versions. There is a reverse with MJ, another with the new Ultimate, another with Janine and Ben, another with Miles and Gwen etc etc. And no, they were not together. It was an open relationship expressed only in 3 issues but really off camera, and it is logical because there were 2 years of multiple writers who could not force relationships on others.
It worked perfectly. Marvel promoted Gwen everywhere and MJ lost a lot in that decade. Felicia has not been promoted outside of comics because her current strength is recent, from the last 5 years. Sony does not manage Marvel's market data, so they only promote the extremely well-known without knowing how the popularity of each character is. Another thing is that MJ fans shout from the rooftops 24/7 and threaten to go up to the Empire State Building to shoot down planes if they are not listened to. Others don't do that, only them.
Look, I am not reading all that. I told you I don't want to have any more conversation with you since I know you make stuff up to boost your favorite. Just accept MJ has always been very popular, even in recent times. But if you want to believe Felicia and Gwen are more popular than MJ than go ahead.
“Another thing is that MJ fans shout from the rooftops 24/7 and threaten to go up to the Empire State Building to shoot down planes if they are not listened to. Others don't do that, only them.“
You may love Felicia a lot but equating MJ fans to terrorist is disgusting.
The difference is that this Gwen is a new version of the character, while queenpin was from the main universe and had decades of history that contradicted her queenpin era.
At this point it has to be Harry's fault, they either turn into cutthroat corpos and/or bang his dad, fortunately we're only 1 out of 2 in this universe...for now.
This harry trust people a lot, maybe too much. he thinks peter should tell MJ, he told gwen, here doesn't mind leaving otto with his regular nda. something bad is going to happen to this guy and i already feel sad for him
Last Ultimate Otto felt too far gone and fucking horrible to be redeeemable. Only time he’s not a complete scumbag is in the Death of Spider-Man arc where he shows no interest in helping Norman kill Peter.
If we think about it logically Last Ultimate Otto is either the one from Ultimate Show or Olivia so, If you consider Olivia her own thing then We can say that Last Ultimate Otto did got his redemption
Ngl I’m getting villain vibe from Gwen. Wouldn’t be surprised if Harry somehow dies a hero and she either becomes the more villainous Goblin or even a version of She-Venom (although the Goblin route is probably more likely).
This universe is similar to 616 and 1610, but I don't think it was exactly the same as either (hence why he wrote of Captain America when he couldn't find him, rather than going "There's another time traveler"). I'm just going to assume any age differences were inherent, unless otherwise explained.
Though it is interesting: this Doc Oc looks a lot like the early depictions of Peter. Spider-Man lore is somewhat infamous for clones, and Oc is also known partially for the Superior Spider-Man storyline, where he took over Peter's body. So maybe he's in a body cloned from Peter? But that's just **wild** speculation.
You know, it's weird:
A lot of people are looking at this and going "So she's gonna be evil, right?" and I... just don't see it from *this*. Because if we break down what happens here, we have:
She's a bit demeaning/rude to Oc by insisting on calling him Otto as she comes to make him sign a new, tougher NDA, as he is looking a laptop that has the Stane-Stark logo on it.
Now, if we look at the context, Stane-Stark International was recently acquired by Oscorp, of which Gwen is the CEO (though Harry is presumably the owner, majority owner, or at least largest single shareholder), in the universe of Earth-6160, where the Maker has reshaped the world and the Maker's Council is ruling the world in his absence.
So the way I see it, Gwen is being the taskmaster. Harry seems more lax and a bit more trusting, while Gwen seems to be more of the cutthroat business woman. She very well could just be trying to make sure Oscorp remains in control of the technology and IP acquired from Stane-Stark, as it is basically their whole arsenal for the war on the Maker's Council. If it gets out- and the Maker's Council didn't already have access to the IP of Stane-Stark- then they've shot themselves in the foot. This also makes sure that Oc's talent remains on their side, which is probably also important.
She might be les so evil and more so... harsh. Strict. Maybe a bit manipulative. But boy, Oc's face ~~(the Peter Palmer reject)~~ makes me think he needs a tight leash.
Otto more so than Gwen. Gwen's the CEO for OsCorp, and given that context and this scene, I view her (for now) as being the taskmaster/"bad cop" while Harry is the field operative, bankroller, and "good cop".
Otto, meanwhile, seems to just be sketchy, with Gwen trying to keep a tight leash on him to keep him from making trouble (but maybe I'm wrong).
Is it me or do Gwen Harry and Otto look a lot like OG ultimate Reed, Ben and Sue, could it be that they will eventually get zapped with the cosmic radiation and form the FF with Peter?
Not that I'm complaining but why is Ultimate Gwen being written like Girlboss Morally Ambiguous CEO Liz Allan? I know she's married to Harry right now much like Liz was but still-
so it's not a short and pudgy Otto. Curious. I suppose the writers want his new handsomer visage to offset his evil tendencies. That's okay. I don't feel like being sympathetic to villains constantly.
Chechetto already draw similar looking dr. Octopus in Devil's Reign. It doesn't make sense that he changed back to that green jumpsuit, which is stupid looking outfit for him.
...I wonder since Peter got bitten by the spider does he still have it or did it bit him and ran off because remember silk she was also bitten by the same spider so I wonder how they will bring her into this universe and would they add that weird sex force in this universe or change it like just both bitten by the same spider but silk likes spiderman and flirt with him not knowing he is marry like would love to add some spicy drama
I think if Cindy does appear in USM (and I doubt she will), she'll just be a journalist. Maybe she'd work for Ben and Jonah considering how she works for the latter in 616. But I don't see anyone except for Peter getting spider-powers anytime soon.
Gwen is going to be a bad guy is any she ?
looks like it
The original Ultimate Marvel did have her be Carnage for a spell, so they may as well.
This feels more like a Liz Allen
Well Gwen was created as a Liz Allen 2.0 in Lee/Ditko era. And had the same arc of mean girl who bullies the main character then turns into a love interest to the main character. Both also had a love triangle with a girl Peter was seeing. Both do have the same vibe.
Gwen is so sketchy. I have a feeling that Harry is going to die in some way (maybe killed by the Kingpin?) and Gwen will take over as the Green Goblin. But instead of being a vigilante like Harry has been so far, she’ll be a full-on villain looking to get revenge on Peter for letting him die.
Maybe they'll do the reverse of Goblin throwing Gwen Stacy off a bridge. Instead, Gwen throws Harry and he dies when Spider-man tries to save him
I think that that would be a little too on the nose, especially for Hickman. They’ll probably change it up.
But how will she become Ultimate Ghost Spider now?
She doesn't. She's the focus of the Ultimate Clone Saga and Otto takes over her body as The Superior Gwen Stacy.
That actually sounds like it's legit.
Damn, this isn't the trans Spider-Person rep I was expecting for this version of the Ultimate Universe, but I'm not against it. I still miss Jessica though.
Jessica Drew? She's not trans, she's always been a girl. Both the 616 and 1610. Although the 1610 is a bit nebulous because she starts as a female clone of Peter, but she's been female her entire life, she never transitioned. But I prefer 616 Jessica Drew, because I like her super spy background.
Yeah, that’s what I said before the 4th issue came out. I think that’s what’ll happen.
That would be interesting
I mean… it’s plausible and I can see it, but I really hope they don’t. We don’t need more Gwen goblins 😭
Gwen Goblin
Keep this man in the kitchen! LET HIM COOK!
That will be the third Gwen Stacy to become Goblin
As opposed to it being the millionth Harry to be the Goblin.
Didn't they reveal Gwen as a Green Goblin in another Spider-Man comic? I thought we as a collective community hated that idea lol
No offence to Alex Segura, but I think Jonathan Hickman will do a much better job of handling by the character.
Gwen Goblin could be a thing, especially since this is Stark armor, that could hide that she's not the same person. However... I believe Spider-Gwen, while not longer "Gwenom", still relies on Venom-65 for her powers (Earth-65 Venom being an artificial creation unrelated to the concept of 616 Symbiotes). And the new 6160 Spider-Man's suit seems to be Venom-6160 (being able to move like liquid, initially being the black suit, and even starting as a black sphere before attaching to Peter), but instead is technological- and created by Tony Stark or Stane-Stark Tech. Which has now been acquired by Oscorp. Which Gwen is the CEO of. So it really *feels like* everything is set up to perfectly lead into Gwen-6160 becoming Ghost Spider. But we'll have to see.
Marvel will not accept that scenario in a thousand years. The gwen goblins of the multiverse, and there are two, are only such due to a total loss of sanity and in the end they are victims of themselves. Marvel will NOT make a full-fledged villainous Gwen. The community already gave them a good spanking for Slott's Felicia Queenping at the time. Imagine if they did something similar to Gwen...
Slott turning Felicia into the Queenpin was just a bad idea from top to bottom, starting from that godawful name. This is a new Gwen who has already been established to be immoral at best, and a full on criminal at worst. If it fits the story I can’t imagine them stopping Hickman from doing it. Hickman has so much clout that I very much doubt that he gets any serious notes from editorial like that.
> This is a new Gwen who has already been established to be immoral at best, and a full on criminal at worst. This is a little bit of an exaggeration, no?
I mean, she’s clearly trying to launder money into Ben and JJJ’s new paper. Throw in this preview and she’s clearly a pretty sketchy businesswoman. But maybe my distaste for billionaire executives is making me biased, who knows?
As a diehard anarcho-communist myself I sympathize, but I think it's a little early to accuse her of money laundering, lol If Gwen is shady for being interested in Ben and JJJ's paper and being a billionaire then so is Harry (which, I mean...yes.) But the NDA on Otto seems like it's partly to protect she and Harry in their endeavors as the Goblin, which is honestly pretty reasonable, all things considered. I do agree that there's something suspicious about her, but it's still too early IMO to call her an immoral criminal just yet.
My prediction is that she’s collaborating with the Maker’s secret council. They run Stark’s old company right after the Maker framed Tony for a terrorist attack, that can’t be a coincidence.
I could for sure see that. Especially because it means that, no matter how intense Harry's antics as the Goblin get, he's still ultimately controlled opposition.
Spiderman is not as free a universe as Xmen. Hickman doesn't have the same level of freedom here as he does with Xmen. People don't want to see certain characters dirty or corrupt and Hickman knows that. And let's be honest...If Harry dies because of Peter and Gwen evolves into Gwen Goblin the victim will be MJ, "My husband for your wife." Vendettas work like this, in an inversely proportional way. It is NOT going to happen because...If they do that to Gwen...nor will the entire marriage resistance block, which is currently like 20-25% of Spiderman readers (the other 75% is the sum of Felicia Gwen (anyone or single) will be able to stop the decline in sales
Hickman spearheaded development on the new Ultimate Universe. He presumably has just as much freedom as he usually does, since this isn’t set in 616. You’re doing a whole lot of assuming what will happen if Gwen turns out to be a villain. I’m sure that if that happens, she’ll try to get back at Peter by going after his family, but that doesn’t mean she’s going to be successful at it. And even if she is successful, I don’t really see that affecting sales significantly. Spider-Man literally always sells well, and Hickman is probably the most well-respected writer in comics today. That’s a guarantee that it’ll sell well regardless of who lives or dies.
Hickman is far from being the most respected current writer, although he will surely enter the top5. But there are rules about iconic characters regardless of the universe. People DO NOT like to see certain characters dirty or corrupt. The sales? Amazing without the variants would not be selling even half and in Ultimate at the moment everything is nice and happy but as soon as something happens that hits readers hard things will change quickly I accept that Marvel agrees to make Gwen a villain if you accept that they agree to kill MJ. Equal footing. If they are Capable of one thing they are also Capable of the other, and we have seen how extremely sensitive everyone is about these things so it is all or nothing. Let no one expect a unilateral risk like that.
Honestly I just fully disagree with all of your points, so let’s just stop having this conversation.
Hard disagree. Sorry your getting downvoted though you put thought into it. Just don't agree
Not that Felicia and Gwen aren't popular in the comic ASM fandom but 75% is way too generous, they would mostly amount to 30-40% combined. Most of the fanbase reading Spider-Man are PeterMJ fan (or just fan of the character) since their marriage is almost 1/3 of the book. Peter's most famous adaptations are always with MJ (Raimi, ITSV/ATSV, Insomniac, 90s Animation). Peter's most popular kid is Mayday who he has with MJ. The marriage is literally the heart and soul of Kraven's Last Hunt (The most famous ASM story) and it's a love letter to PeterMJ, it probably has a fanbase on it's own. USM is one of the most popular book in the past 5 years (or even since 2007 since it's bringing old and new comic book reader) because of PeterMJ's marriage and him finally being able to grow old. ASM is making 43% of the sell of what USM is making. If the "marriage resistance" consist only of 20-25% USM wouldn't be able to sell so much and ASM wouldn't have to change direction with the whole Paul and kids thing. You can have your own opinion but stop lying. I always see you making up statistics to make your fav look good.
No. MJ's total fandom is not much more than 20-25%. If you count only the Spiderman reader there are 4 groups. MJ CAT GWEN...and a fourth group that cares little about this issue or prefers something else, like Kityy who is highly loved among those initiated with Ultimate. Of the 4 groups this is the smallest, MJ the largest, Cat the second largest and Gwen the third. But if you combine the three MJ you lose too much of the total. Even separately MJ would not have any overwhelming difference compared to the other groups. Gwen has risen a lot since the Spectacular series and the Emma Stone movie. Between 2008 and 2017 MJ lost a lot of popular ground and between 2018 and 2021 Felicia rose in popularity at a dizzying pace. MJ only has the support of a part of the fandom of the 80s-90s and a small group of young people who grew up in the 2000s with that inherited material, but nothing more. If we go to the mass public, the one that consumes or enjoys characters beyond the comic in games, cosplay, fanart, movies, etc. etc...Felicia wins and by a lot and then SpiderGwen (although she is not THAT Gwen) The vast majority of Spiderman products with MJ, you must remember, were made when the marriage was active. All that Disappears after 2008. Literally until 2017 nothing of MJ is seen again and not even that because Zendaya's is not "MJ". We have to wait for the Spiderverse and Insomniac movie that SONY, NOT MARVEL, make in 2018. Many MANY people who are NOT fans of Peter and MJ buy the new Ultimate BECAUSE OF THE CREATIVE TEAM!. You have to be VERY naive to believe that Ultimate is only bought by marriage readers. If only those readers bought it, sales would be in half. Most people DO NOT put that marriage before the writer, the artist and the quality of the book. If those three things are good for people, they will buy the book and if they are not, they will not.
Do you even know how math works? You are saying MJ is the largest group but then go on to say she is in between 20-25%? That means all the groups are proportionally equal. You are contradicting you're own statement. Gwen is popular in outside media (but mostly spider-gwen), she is still dead in ASM. Whenever she appears most of the fanbase gets angry and annoyed. Felicia is not more popular than MJ in comics, that's a joke. MJ, a supporting character with no power and a love interest nonetheless, had her own series in 2005-2007 and ongoing in 2019. Which is uncommon for a character like her. And black cat who has powers and a costume couldn't get one til maybe 2006 and then in 2019. MJ's first introduction is still one of the most iconic panel and line of all time and used in other comics as a homage, the upside-down kiss is still one of the best kiss in all cinema that is replicated in numerous other media. Whenever there is a Spider-Man movie, one of the first question is "who is playing MJ?". Heck, the only reason people even want 90s Spider-Man animation back is so that they could see Peter and MJ back together again. Black Cat and MJ are both popular in the fanarts and games. Cosplay is mostly spider-gwen and black cat because they have a costume in store whereas MJ is a civilian, so there isn't much for her in that departement except for a red hair and most of the cosplayer wants to stand out in what fandom they are in. But that doesn't really add anything to the reader fanbase because most can be fan of other media than comics. Most of the comics in BND era used MJ as a prop to boost sales in their covers, they always tease the devil deal because they know the fandom will eat it up. Wasn't Peter and Felicia together during BND era or somewhere in between 2007-2017? That still didn't boost up anything. The only reason there was no products for MJ after OMD was basically to try to undermine her popularity, as we see now it didn't work and she came back with full force. She is in Fortnite 2 times (I count Michelle as MJ), something that the OG Gwen or black cat is not considered to be in. Heck Felicia doesn't even have a movie appearance except TASM 2 for a brief cameo. Either way, this is outside media, we are talking about comics. If Gwen and Felicia are as popular as MJ, they would have their own comic universe with Peter as an ongoing or at least have the fans talk about it, alas they dont't. Spider-Gwen is popular on her own and because of ITSV/ATSV. MJ has Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, Spider-Girl, RYV, OG Ultimate and now the new Ultimate. Most people don't even know Hickman, heck I didn't know who he was. I left comics during Beyond because it was getting boring. I only came back because of the announcement of USM and I don't doubt most also did. Nobody talked or still talks about Ultimate Invasion which was also written by Jonathan Hickman. YOU would be naive to think the popularity of PeterMJ is so low. They're one of the main promotion of USM, nobody was talking about the new USM until they dropped the Parker family with PeterMJ. Look it all the covers, this RYV all over again. RYV was supposed to be a 5 issues story but because of its popularity became an ongoing (even though it was written by Dan Slott) until they messed that up but it is still talked about. Nobody trusted Spencer or even liked him after Captain America and Hydra but once he brought PeterMJ together, sells escalated. And please don't reply to me again cause I know you will just try to undermine MJ's popularity again as you have done with others in reddit. I know Felicia and Gwen are popular but not as much as MJ, even combined, in the reader fanbase. If you want to believe that they are, well that's your believe.
I have told you that the mass audience is not the same as the comics audience. Outside of the comic MJ has no real strength, but within the comic itself it does not win by a significant majority but by a simple majority. Ultimate MJ is not as popular even if she is more popular than Kitty, but Kitty is particularly the most mentioned within Ultimate. Felicia TODAY is more popular than MJ just as she was between 1981 and 1985. And let's not talk about the volume of material because there is no color. MJ couldn't stand a mini of 5 and only his number 1 reached the top33 of his year. BC1 reached the top 5 of its year and the series, counting 2 minis, was 33 issues and 2 annuals. Not to mention that they don't take MJ away from them at all, even to sell Jackpot. She is also the girl with the most appeal for future films and the one who is most talked about in the Insomniac game. And their material from 2002-2006, that of MarvelKnights and KevinSmith, has also been reissued. In BND there were covers of everything, and one of the most famous, perhaps THE MOST, is the one with Felicia's big kiss in front of MJ Of all, BND is the cover with the most alternate versions. There is a reverse with MJ, another with the new Ultimate, another with Janine and Ben, another with Miles and Gwen etc etc. And no, they were not together. It was an open relationship expressed only in 3 issues but really off camera, and it is logical because there were 2 years of multiple writers who could not force relationships on others. It worked perfectly. Marvel promoted Gwen everywhere and MJ lost a lot in that decade. Felicia has not been promoted outside of comics because her current strength is recent, from the last 5 years. Sony does not manage Marvel's market data, so they only promote the extremely well-known without knowing how the popularity of each character is. Another thing is that MJ fans shout from the rooftops 24/7 and threaten to go up to the Empire State Building to shoot down planes if they are not listened to. Others don't do that, only them.
Look, I am not reading all that. I told you I don't want to have any more conversation with you since I know you make stuff up to boost your favorite. Just accept MJ has always been very popular, even in recent times. But if you want to believe Felicia and Gwen are more popular than MJ than go ahead. “Another thing is that MJ fans shout from the rooftops 24/7 and threaten to go up to the Empire State Building to shoot down planes if they are not listened to. Others don't do that, only them.“ You may love Felicia a lot but equating MJ fans to terrorist is disgusting.
The difference is that this Gwen is a new version of the character, while queenpin was from the main universe and had decades of history that contradicted her queenpin era.
Gwen is giving me Liz Allan Alchemax vibes here.
Harry has a thing for blonde chicks who work at big corporations and who are sketchy AF. 😂😂
At this point it has to be Harry's fault, they either turn into cutthroat corpos and/or bang his dad, fortunately we're only 1 out of 2 in this universe...for now.
I kinda like it.
I was literally coming to the comments section to write this lol
Perfect comparison, seems like her character turned out the exact way Liz did, corrupted by capitalism lol
This harry trust people a lot, maybe too much. he thinks peter should tell MJ, he told gwen, here doesn't mind leaving otto with his regular nda. something bad is going to happen to this guy and i already feel sad for him
I just hope he dosent turn evil until issue 20 bc I actual what Peter to be happy for a good while
Gwen being sketchy is really interesting and refreshing to me, tbh.
She's basically 616 Liz Allen RN though, not sure how I feel about that
This Otto looks like “ Elliot Tolliver” Thanks Hickman
I had the exact same thought, and I definitely welcome it.
Otto looks like Elliot Tolliver and I love it. Hope he gets the redemption that the last Ultimate Otto couldn't get.
Last Ultimate Otto felt too far gone and fucking horrible to be redeeemable. Only time he’s not a complete scumbag is in the Death of Spider-Man arc where he shows no interest in helping Norman kill Peter.
If we think about it logically Last Ultimate Otto is either the one from Ultimate Show or Olivia so, If you consider Olivia her own thing then We can say that Last Ultimate Otto did got his redemption
Bro what
Otto's Jameson-like haircut is really throwing me.
I think he’s waiting until Chinese New Year to get the proper photos of SPIDER-MAN!!
I think j it's actually Elliot Tolliver.
Anyone else think the way Otto is drawn here kinda resembles early Ditko Peter?
At first glance I thought it was meant to be early peter
That was my exact same thought
Now that you mention it yes
He looks more like when 616 Otto was the Superior Octopus to me.
Gwen being a shady bitch was so obvious
From the last chapter? Yes. But I don't think anyone predicted that this was the way Hickman was going to write her.
Ngl I’m getting villain vibe from Gwen. Wouldn’t be surprised if Harry somehow dies a hero and she either becomes the more villainous Goblin or even a version of She-Venom (although the Goblin route is probably more likely).
How's she gonna become Venom? Is she going to be experimenting with Peter's suit? We're a long way from the symbiote being introduced.
I agree that we’re a long way for that but honestly, I’m just spitballing. That’s why I said another Goblin route is more likely.
Hold up. How is both Tony and doc Ock younger then Peter? Did the maker did something to deage them or they were set to be this way in this universe.
The maker made Howard be iron man instead
This universe is similar to 616 and 1610, but I don't think it was exactly the same as either (hence why he wrote of Captain America when he couldn't find him, rather than going "There's another time traveler"). I'm just going to assume any age differences were inherent, unless otherwise explained. Though it is interesting: this Doc Oc looks a lot like the early depictions of Peter. Spider-Man lore is somewhat infamous for clones, and Oc is also known partially for the Superior Spider-Man storyline, where he took over Peter's body. So maybe he's in a body cloned from Peter? But that's just **wild** speculation.
Gwen is rather... intense.. As in, intensily suspicious.
These were the kind of comic book women Dafoe's Norman was warning Harry about.
This feels more like spoiler than news tbh
Yup
I thought It could be a female Otto, but an evil Elliot tolliver ins't bad at all
It was officially posted by Marvel
Love the Stane/Stark logo with The Avengers symbol incorporated into it.
I hope 🤞 qwen doesn’t give off villans vibes but anything could happen
Gwen is so sus jeez.
Ooooo boy, harry sure is a nice guy, hopefully nothing bad happens to him
this otto really looks like classic pete from the 60s
Looking like Elliot Tolliver.
You know, it's weird: A lot of people are looking at this and going "So she's gonna be evil, right?" and I... just don't see it from *this*. Because if we break down what happens here, we have: She's a bit demeaning/rude to Oc by insisting on calling him Otto as she comes to make him sign a new, tougher NDA, as he is looking a laptop that has the Stane-Stark logo on it. Now, if we look at the context, Stane-Stark International was recently acquired by Oscorp, of which Gwen is the CEO (though Harry is presumably the owner, majority owner, or at least largest single shareholder), in the universe of Earth-6160, where the Maker has reshaped the world and the Maker's Council is ruling the world in his absence. So the way I see it, Gwen is being the taskmaster. Harry seems more lax and a bit more trusting, while Gwen seems to be more of the cutthroat business woman. She very well could just be trying to make sure Oscorp remains in control of the technology and IP acquired from Stane-Stark, as it is basically their whole arsenal for the war on the Maker's Council. If it gets out- and the Maker's Council didn't already have access to the IP of Stane-Stark- then they've shot themselves in the foot. This also makes sure that Oc's talent remains on their side, which is probably also important. She might be les so evil and more so... harsh. Strict. Maybe a bit manipulative. But boy, Oc's face ~~(the Peter Palmer reject)~~ makes me think he needs a tight leash.
gwen is a villain fr
Gwen and Otto are so fucking sketchy in this preview.
Otto more so than Gwen. Gwen's the CEO for OsCorp, and given that context and this scene, I view her (for now) as being the taskmaster/"bad cop" while Harry is the field operative, bankroller, and "good cop". Otto, meanwhile, seems to just be sketchy, with Gwen trying to keep a tight leash on him to keep him from making trouble (but maybe I'm wrong).
Is it me or do Gwen Harry and Otto look a lot like OG ultimate Reed, Ben and Sue, could it be that they will eventually get zapped with the cosmic radiation and form the FF with Peter?
Soooo. Goblin is harry and hobgoblin is gwen?
Hobgobgwen
Not that I'm complaining but why is Ultimate Gwen being written like Girlboss Morally Ambiguous CEO Liz Allan? I know she's married to Harry right now much like Liz was but still-
Liz and Gwen always were very similar to each other especially in the Ditko era and Romita era once Liz came back.
If she goes bad that's shit, should just use Liz
so it's not a short and pudgy Otto. Curious. I suppose the writers want his new handsomer visage to offset his evil tendencies. That's okay. I don't feel like being sympathetic to villains constantly.
Chechetto already draw similar looking dr. Octopus in Devil's Reign. It doesn't make sense that he changed back to that green jumpsuit, which is stupid looking outfit for him.
The angles and art style are awesome in those books.
...I wonder since Peter got bitten by the spider does he still have it or did it bit him and ran off because remember silk she was also bitten by the same spider so I wonder how they will bring her into this universe and would they add that weird sex force in this universe or change it like just both bitten by the same spider but silk likes spiderman and flirt with him not knowing he is marry like would love to add some spicy drama
I think if Cindy does appear in USM (and I doubt she will), she'll just be a journalist. Maybe she'd work for Ben and Jonah considering how she works for the latter in 616. But I don't see anyone except for Peter getting spider-powers anytime soon.