You know what would be a great character moment for Spidey? Have him unknowingly move into Hawkeyes apartment building. Not only would it be fun to see him slowly learn to trust Hawkeye But Hawkeye could give him some slack with rent because superhero stuff. It wouldn’t hurt strapped for cash peter. But would keep him from being depressingly screwed over all the time. Because every time I have quit reading comics it has been because they undid Spideys life. That ruins the comics for me. (Across the board. ) I’m honestly still unable to get back into the comics after they undid parker industries.
Yeah, I really hated when he lost his company. He didn't just hoard the money. He did really good stuff with it. The Ben Parker Foundation was just one of the good things he tried to do with the money.
I can relate. One more day is what made me stop reading mainstream comics on the regular. I mostly do mini series now of individual story arcs and events if they sound interesting enough. That story also opened my eyes to how much the status quo is God trope can hurt a character. Peter Parker in particular. He's been marvels very own Peter Pan for decades now. Can't take 2 steps forward without another 3 back. It's to the point where some people don't just expect him to be perpetually broke and unable to get it together they demand it. Like it's not a Spider-man story unless he's at constant risk of losing his job, or becoming homeless, or whatever
I mean... Yea. It's one thing if he starts off broke or struggling... But he somehow finds a way out of that mess. But to never address the issue is like not addressing Peter is the reason Uncle Ben is dead. These are 2 things that define Peter Parker the most. When Peter gets out of that rut, I can't feel but happiness towards him... His life never really goes right for him, so any win is a good win ( at least I hope it is). People should be rooting for Peter to be successful, not crying when he succeeds, and demand that he starts failing again. But again... For Peter to never have those issues... Is it even Peter Parker anymore?
The problem I have is no matter what he gains in life its always taken away so he can continue to have the same problems. Whether it's his wife, potential kid(s), or career it's always treated like an experiment. Then they eventually undo it and he inevitably finds himself broke again sleeping in his childhood room at mays or living in some crappy apartment stressing about the rent.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have problems anymore just that new challenges in life come with new problems and I rather see him deal with those. Making an equal partnership marriage work, parent hood, taking care of a household while being a superhero. Generally being an adult. Maybe hed still have money problems from time to time but at least he'd be moving forward.
I just want to see the character move forward in a meaningful way and stay there instead of being stuck forever in a perpetual man child cycle because writers are worried he'll stop being relatable or think that adult problems are boring. I thought maybe we might get that now with miles in the main universe but so far same stuff.
Agreed. I would argue when Venom was new to the comic he definitely had the number one spot, and a lot of Spideys rogues, including Doc and Goblin (though Harry was Goblin when Venom was first around so, meh), had a mix of fear and respect for him. Hell he appeared on iterations of both of their Sinister 6 teams.
This showed up in a very apparent way during Superior Spider-man when Spider-Ock took a scorched earth approach towards dealing with Venom, suggesting his previous interactions left him wanting to completely remove potential run ins with the symbiote. As Venom softened towards Spider-man and his weaknesses became more widely known I would say he quickly lost that spot.
I'd even say close friends. The part that really resonated with me was the symbiote helping to convince Eddie to let go of his remaining resentment, rather than egging him on.
Gotta go with Green Goblin. It feels like pretty death of Gwen Stacy it was more set up for Doc Ock to be his arch nemesis but ever since GG killed Gwen it was just non stop torment from Norman and Harry for the next 30 years
Much more than that, that maniac is pure evil, after the death of Gwen, he orchestrated the clone saga and killed Peter's unborn baby (mayday of mc2 universe). Same day he also killed Ben Reilly (whom Peter loved like a brother). Later after becoming carnagized he killed Flash Thomson (who at that time was one of Peter's best freinds) and also carnagized his own grandson just because of his twisted osborne legacy shit. Also in the recent Nick Spencer run it was revealed that this piece of shit was so selfish that he sold his sons soul (he didn't even mind to sell his own soul, that's how selfish is this man) to Mephisto for getting rich and famous.
Norman Osborne is just pure evil and if he is getting an MCU entry he better be depicted as that rather than a good guy turned evil because of society cliche
Iron Patriot, so while all the others were more of a one to one replacement for the heroic Avengers, Norman’s ego let him be Iron Man AND Cap on that team.
>Norman Osborne is just pure evil and if he is getting an MCU entry he better be depicted as that rather than a good guy turned evil because of society cliche
I wouldn't say he was depicted that sympathetically in the Raimi films. He is still portrayed as ruthlessly ambitious , as well as a father that is neglectful, and emotionally abusive, even before the Goblin formula or the loss of his own company.
Now , it is true he is portrayed as more sympathetically in some ways, but even in some of the old comics, he has been given some sympathetic moments
Yeah in the comics, he is a bad parent. He loves his son Harry not as a son, but like a commodity to take on the frickin osborne legacy, that's why he is embarassed of him and saw Peter as the son he never had. This legacy thing also hurt Harry that he tried to what his dad wanted by becoming the Green Goblin.Dude once kidnapped Peter to make him his legacy as the next Osborne,
Oh yeah, his twisted imagination of thinking Peter is his legacy and wanted to make him an osborne. It's damn interesting that, As Norman Osborne his enmity is primarily with Peter Parker, while as Green Goblin it is with Spider-Man. Through power Norman demands control, while through power Peter seeks to serve.
There's also that insane bit where he kidnaps aunt May, replaces her with an actress he's altered to be identical to May, has her die. And then ages later after they finish grieving, reveal the real May is alive but now there's a thing he put in her head that will kill May if it's not removed but everyone else if it is removed. Convoluted but I loved that era.
I could understand where you're coming from but Venom isn't a villain anymore and hasn't been for decades. He's made up for his villain years by saving the world twice, saving New York during Spider-Island, dying to save others, and finally burying the hatchet with Spider-Man. They're even friends now.
I would say nemesis wise, Doc Ock is Spidey's nemesis. But the Green Goblin (Harry or Norman) is Peter Parker's archnemsis. Green Goblin always screwed around with his personal life, while Otto was the biggest threat to his professional life (Master Planner Saga, Sinister 6, the fact Otto killed him). I personally lean a bit towards Gobby however.
Yep. I think it started in Venom: Space Knight (when Flash had the suit) that the symbiote and Peter started to reach an understanding. Then it was finalized during the Red Goblin arc. And that's just the symbiote.
Eddie was always coming around to Pete, but they finally became friends in the recent Venom run by Donny Cates. Which, I would recommend.
Same here. Topped off all of the character development throughout the years and then some. Additionally, I found it to be a good follow-up to Costa's run. Sure, there's some retcons and other issues, but the run was amazing and overall one of my favorite Venom stories.
I always viewed Venom as Spider-Man's rival. I loved and feared him,, but I never looked at him as the ultimate villain, just the most terrifying and one of consistent Blockbuster/popcorn showdowns.
I always viewed Green Goblin as Spider-Man's archnemesis ala his "Lex Luthor". Doc Ock was often depicted as the mastermind behind multiple Factions and plots, but I always felt that Spider-Man got the better of him more often than not, but Green Goblin? Sheesh. I despised him in certain runs.
That's a fair point, indeed.
LL might be a bad comparison now that I think about it because GG and Kingpin are more sadistic and conniving to me.
So maybe for me, a better comparison for GG is Vandal Savage minus the immortality. Obviously this isn't one to one parallel.
I mean I figured you said Lex because he is easily Superman's "arch-nemesis" and that is saying something when a different villain literally killed him once before
Truth. Norman's obsessed with Spidey. I think Doc Ock is cooler(Octopus vs Spider) but his hatred is far more pure. Like, Norman sometimes has the weird love/hate thing.
They made a major appearance in the latest run.
The retcon was during that run and made them test tube babies made by Harry.
I dont know how to put up spoilers so that's as clear as I'm getting.
Wait so harry tricked both gwen and norman into thinking they were together (Since gwen apparently told MJ)? I wont say the retcon wasnt needed but damn the story is just getting more convoluted now lol
The best part is if you just say “Green Goblin” is Spidey’s archenemy, it could apply to Norman OR Harry. Or if you say “the Goblin” it could also mean Hobgoblin
He’s joking. We know that Mysterio helped brainwash Norman into thinking he banged Gwen. A joke is that Mysterio instead used an illusion to appear as Gwen and then he fucked Norman
Spider-man has multiple times in the comics corrected people when they say Doc Ock is his greatest villain and said that Green Goblin is, which is fair from Peters point of view considering he’s the most personally connected to Peter through Harry and he killed his girlfriend. He says it multiple times but I know for sure he says it in his tie in with Shang-chi to the Shadowlands event
Green Goblin, he's the complete antithesis to Spider-man. Even in his last moments as Osborne was dying in Spider-man: Life Story; his dying words were I hate you with utter disgust in his face.
Also boasted to Spider-man's other rogues that he killed his girlfriend with a sick smile to compliment him as he left.
Green Goblin is Peter Parker’s greatest enemy cause he knows his secret identity.
Doc Ock is Spider-Mans greatest enemy, but not Peter Parker’s.
And venom is the reverse-flash of Peter Parker/Spider-Man
I’ve always seen green goblin as his arch nemesis.
Spider-Man is interesting cause he doesn’t have a traditional arch nemesis.
Norman’s Green Goblin died in 1973, and then about a year later Harry briefly became the Goblin before “losing his memory”. Four years later in 1978 we had another Green Goblin story where Harry’s therapist is revealed to have stolen all the Goblin stuff. Harry then becomes the Green Goblin again in 1989 over ten years later, and this sets the stage for his death.
During all this time, honestly, the Kingpin was probably the closest thing to an arch nemesis to Spider-Man as he is by far the villain Spider-Man encounters the most. The Hobgoblin was also heavily involved, and even had way more appearances than the Green Goblin did before his resurrection.
Doc Ock was technically Spider-Man’s arch nemesis before even the Green Goblin — Norman and Peter didn’t even meet until he was in college. Ock unmasked him, caused the death of Betty’s brother, involved Aunt May in a criminal plot, was the focus of “If This Be My Destiny” which is a seminal Spider-Man story, and almost killed the Black Cat while she was dating Peter.
Once Norman came back from the dead he became more of a traditional arch nemesis to Spider-Man, but it took a while to get there.
Venom is really more of an anti-hero that just personally hates Spider-Man, so while he’s emotionally closer to Peter I don’t think he’s necessarily THE arch nemesis.
Miles Warren could be argued to be another arch nemesis just because of the impact he’s had on Peter’s life but, again, I don’t really see him as THE arch nemesis.
By now Norman and Peter have the longest history — even if it it is super convoluted and comic book-y — so I’d say Green Goblin ultimately wins.
Agreed. Doc Ock even spares Peter in recent issues from the wrath of the sinister war. So really Venom and Otto aren’t consistently bad enough to outmatch the Goblin.
Thinking that green goblin, fucked (so happy that it got rebooted) and killed his girlfriend, kidnapped his aunt to nake him think she was dead, destroyed his best friend life so he could get him ( even thought it was his own son) Norman Osborn is by far his arch nemesis
I would still say the Green Goblin because he is the ultimate evil mirror of Spider-Man. He wears a mask, cracks jokes at his victims, and moves through the New York skyline like it's his playground. As Norman Osborn he comes from an upper-class background, never cared for his family and the concept of power and responsibility never even entered his fucking head. Also like Ock, the Green Goblin matches Spider-Man as a scientific genius, which Venom doesn't.
At the end of the day, Norman Osborn takes things to a much more personal level, and unless I'm mistaken, he's the only one of the three to be a current enemy to Peter. Ock may have taken over Peter's body, but Norman's the one who has done, and continues to do, the most trauma to Peter.
Green goblin hands down, the way he fits in with oscorp and the lore, and how he is both a genius and incredibly powerful, and don’t even get me started on how the rivalry was built up to norman killing gwen stacy, and in another unverse, literally impregnating her.
Someone here said that Green Goblin is Peter Parker’s greatest enemy and Doc Ock is Spider-Man’s greatest enemy, and this is dead-on. I would also argue that Kingpin is an honorable-mention here since he’s badly messed up Spidey for decades.
That’s a fair point, but Green Goblin discovered Spider-Man’s identity very early on in their history and went after Spidey by going after Peter’s loved ones.
That part makes sense as to why the Green Goblin is a more personal enemy for Peter, so in that sense he is Peter Parker's greatest enemy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Ock is Spider-Man's greater enemy right? The second part isn't necessarily true just because the first part is.
You know, that’s a fair point. I think I have to amend what I said and say instead that Green Goblin is Spidey’s greatest foe because of his hatred for both of Spidey’s personas. Doc Ock is definitely a close second though, and I stand by Kingpin as an honorable-mention for sure.
I do think Ock is a close second, and I would name Venom and Hobgoblin as honorable mentions. Kingpin likewise was his archenemy in certain versions like Spider-Man TAS. I do think it speaks to the strength of Spider-Man as a character and of his rogues gallery that he can have multiple archenemies.
Doc Ock may be Spidey's intellectual equal, but Green Goblin has committed more unforgivable acts of cruelty against Spider-Man & Peter Parker. He got Gwen Stacy pregnant & was responsible for her death, conned Spidey into thinking paid actors were Peter's dead parents come back to life to mess with him, tried to torture & brainwash Spidey into becoming the next Green Goblin, faked Aunt May's death AND orchestrated the Clone Saga
So... this is a hard question to answer.
Norman killed Gwen and tormented Peter frequently, always a villain.
Otto killed Captain Stacy inadvertently, always respected Peter as a foe, took his body and his life and watched him die horrifically and unceremoniously, became a hero in Peter's name, is back to his nefarious ways which does not make any sense but comic books.
Venom (Brock and his symbiote) have such a fleshed out back story that it almost makes them bictims of circumstance who made terrible choices and took no responsibility and blamed Peter and tormented him and his family constantly but teamed up with Peter and even entrusted his child with Peter.
Based on the whole picture, I say Otto.
Venom is a friend now. Norman's an asshole who's basically a one trick pony, Carnage has more depth. Otto is number one.
Well i always thought Venom… but he hasn’t been a villain in quite a while… so I’d say Norman… he literally banged his wife… Dan Slott is a close second tho…
I think spider man stories are best when his arch-nemesis is his own secret identity. The tension and friction between Peter Parker trying to have a personal life and balance that with saving the city from super villains
For me, it Green Goblin, Doc Oc, Vulture and Sandman. Also can't forget Flash Thompson (the original villain) I read a book with all the original comics, when I was a kid.
The modern me says Venom and Kraven.
If I had to pick I would probably go with GG but I've never really viewed Spider-Man as having one specific arch enemy. I've always viewed him as having multiple.
Venom is a cool anti-Spider-Man on surface-level, but the character is kind of useless without a host and his entire deal is messing with Spider-Man only as far as actual villainy goes. Venom has no other ambition as a villain. There's no interesting dynamic between the two or an intellectual level to their relationship, which only lessened once Venom turned to being an anti-hero, Carnage got involved, and now they have to work together a lot of the time.
Growing up, I'd definitely say Goblin was definitely his arch-nemesis, but now I'm tied between Goblin and Ock. Both have interesting dynamics and have proven themselves to be major threats to Spider-Man and the wider world.
Green Goblin, specifically Norman Osborn, has plenty of ambition and alternative goals and there's a very interesting dynamic between him and Spider-Man, compounded by Peter's friendship with Harry. He's crazy, he's super smart, and very strong, with the vast resources Peter does not have. There's a lot of similarities in their passions that have been sent towards opposite moral ends. Furthermore, the Dark Reign phase of Norman proved he can be just as much of a threat without putting on the Goblin suit. Norman makes his nemesis status serious with his continually twisted ways to fuck with Peter specifically. Norman's definitely the most inherently dangerous traditional villain to Spider-Man directly, I'd say.
Ock though has moved up in my tiers massively over the past decade. I realize he's always been arch-nemesis material, but he's been downplayed in a lot of other media, like the 90s Cartoon. The man has nearly taken over the world a few times and I'd argue he has more ambition than even the Green Goblin since his plans kinda straight up ignore Spider-Man for the most part for other goals, either seeing Spidey as a problem to account for or (leading up to Superior) a means to an end. Heck, he beat the Avengers like it was nothing and only lost later on because Spider-Man is so specifically familiar with Ock's bullshit. There's a lot of parallels that makes him extremely similar to Peter, personality wise, except put on a different path. What has me torn about making him the de facto nemesis is that Superior Spider-Man made him such an interesting, yet conflicted hero, despite all his previous misdeeds and his ultimate conquering of Spider-Man, that he actually made himself out to be a decent heroic figure for himself... Until the Mephisto bullshit ruined Superior Vol 2 (I am still very mad about that).
Overall, I'd say Venom was a cool powerful villain with not a lot of staying power nemesis-wise because he has no real organic parallels to Spider-Man beyond just being an abandoned alien boyfriend mimic.
Poverty
He was fighting crime but his power to do so was broken over finishing school and paying debts.
Spiderman was a brilliant inventor with amazing skill and he had to beat up bank robers, muggers and save people from structure fires on a schedule.
I always assumed that Venom was written as the true Anti Spiderman, especially with the Spider-Sense dead zone, but when it comes to personality, I feel like Doc Ock and Peter are the most frustrated but respectful with one another, and that feels like what an Arch Nemesis is supposed to be
It's the Green Goblin, now I can go into detail but I'll just give you [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/35zzme/my_favorite_moment_of_superior_spiderman_ssm_31/)
There are so many times the Green Goblin has proven himself to be his arch-nemesis in the main universe but I think he was best handled in the ultimate universe.
Green Goblin for me. I saw him much more in the movies or show. Venom was more like a temporary big threat and I didn't read comics so it was basically just seeing him rarely on Sat morning cartoons and then playing as him as an Ally in Maximum Carnage.
Edit: and Willem Dafoe has the best performance ever as a Spider-Man villain, unless Triple J counts lol
Spiderman/doctor octupus: year one and Superior Spiderman solidify in my mind that Otto is the perfect foil/archnemesis to Peter
Goblin of course is second
I'm with [Rich Evans](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLzW9dSEx6I&t=700s) from Red Letter Media on this one: Spider-Man doesn't really have a true archenemy in the way that Batman has the Joker.
Spider-Man’s greatest and most consistent arch-nemesis since the get-go has always been The Rent
Where is my rent Spider-Man?!
You’ll get your rent when you fix **THIS DAMN DOOR!**
He is good boy, must be in some kind of trouble
These comments are something else
I'm something of a commenter myself.
Take my free award, stranger from the internet. You won my heart!
Awarded, am I? YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I'VE SACRIFICED!? For that comment? Not much, actually. Thanks!
You know what would be a great character moment for Spidey? Have him unknowingly move into Hawkeyes apartment building. Not only would it be fun to see him slowly learn to trust Hawkeye But Hawkeye could give him some slack with rent because superhero stuff. It wouldn’t hurt strapped for cash peter. But would keep him from being depressingly screwed over all the time. Because every time I have quit reading comics it has been because they undid Spideys life. That ruins the comics for me. (Across the board. ) I’m honestly still unable to get back into the comics after they undid parker industries.
Yeah, I really hated when he lost his company. He didn't just hoard the money. He did really good stuff with it. The Ben Parker Foundation was just one of the good things he tried to do with the money.
Me too, but I understand why they got rid of it, Peter is known for money problems and it makes him seem too fortunate.
I can relate. One more day is what made me stop reading mainstream comics on the regular. I mostly do mini series now of individual story arcs and events if they sound interesting enough. That story also opened my eyes to how much the status quo is God trope can hurt a character. Peter Parker in particular. He's been marvels very own Peter Pan for decades now. Can't take 2 steps forward without another 3 back. It's to the point where some people don't just expect him to be perpetually broke and unable to get it together they demand it. Like it's not a Spider-man story unless he's at constant risk of losing his job, or becoming homeless, or whatever
I mean... Yea. It's one thing if he starts off broke or struggling... But he somehow finds a way out of that mess. But to never address the issue is like not addressing Peter is the reason Uncle Ben is dead. These are 2 things that define Peter Parker the most. When Peter gets out of that rut, I can't feel but happiness towards him... His life never really goes right for him, so any win is a good win ( at least I hope it is). People should be rooting for Peter to be successful, not crying when he succeeds, and demand that he starts failing again. But again... For Peter to never have those issues... Is it even Peter Parker anymore?
The problem I have is no matter what he gains in life its always taken away so he can continue to have the same problems. Whether it's his wife, potential kid(s), or career it's always treated like an experiment. Then they eventually undo it and he inevitably finds himself broke again sleeping in his childhood room at mays or living in some crappy apartment stressing about the rent. I'm not saying he shouldn't have problems anymore just that new challenges in life come with new problems and I rather see him deal with those. Making an equal partnership marriage work, parent hood, taking care of a household while being a superhero. Generally being an adult. Maybe hed still have money problems from time to time but at least he'd be moving forward. I just want to see the character move forward in a meaningful way and stay there instead of being stuck forever in a perpetual man child cycle because writers are worried he'll stop being relatable or think that adult problems are boring. I thought maybe we might get that now with miles in the main universe but so far same stuff.
I’m really sorry Mr Ditkovich I only have this 20 for the rest of the week
Sorry doesn’t pay the rent, and don’t sneak past me, I have ears like a cat and eyes like a rodent
The legend of the rent is WAY hardcore
God that movies a real throwback. Hard to believe most of the child cast is in their 30s already.
Say what you want, but at least Picasso sold his guitars to pay the rent.
Top 10 Best Original Jack Black songs
Always has been
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I would upvote you, but you have 616 upvotes and I WILL NOT RUIN THAT
Now you can, cuz other people did lol. Go crazy
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Agreed. I would argue when Venom was new to the comic he definitely had the number one spot, and a lot of Spideys rogues, including Doc and Goblin (though Harry was Goblin when Venom was first around so, meh), had a mix of fear and respect for him. Hell he appeared on iterations of both of their Sinister 6 teams. This showed up in a very apparent way during Superior Spider-man when Spider-Ock took a scorched earth approach towards dealing with Venom, suggesting his previous interactions left him wanting to completely remove potential run ins with the symbiote. As Venom softened towards Spider-man and his weaknesses became more widely known I would say he quickly lost that spot.
Norman has definitely cause Peter the most grief and chaos out of anyone. Otto is probably a better foil to Peter though, so it is a tough choice.
I like Otto better, but I think Norman your right about Norman doing the most. Personally I don’t think there is a real arch nemesis for spider-man
Screwball
Nemes’is’s’es
Your nemesis' nemesis' belongings?
The nemesis of my nemesis is my nemesis' nemesis
I'd go so far as to say that Venom and Spidey are begrudging allies most of the time.
I really dig your Vegeta/Goku comparison. Spot on.
Nemeses
Nemesi
Moved to Lemmy. Eat $hit Spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
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How dare you, and with your username!?
this absolutely is the correct answer
Nemeses
Good point with the rivals analysis man!
They’re friends now! In King In Black they get lunch just to get lunch and catch up, it was so great.
I'd even say close friends. The part that really resonated with me was the symbiote helping to convince Eddie to let go of his remaining resentment, rather than egging him on.
Gotta go with Green Goblin. It feels like pretty death of Gwen Stacy it was more set up for Doc Ock to be his arch nemesis but ever since GG killed Gwen it was just non stop torment from Norman and Harry for the next 30 years
Norman for the death of Gwen
Much more than that, that maniac is pure evil, after the death of Gwen, he orchestrated the clone saga and killed Peter's unborn baby (mayday of mc2 universe). Same day he also killed Ben Reilly (whom Peter loved like a brother). Later after becoming carnagized he killed Flash Thomson (who at that time was one of Peter's best freinds) and also carnagized his own grandson just because of his twisted osborne legacy shit. Also in the recent Nick Spencer run it was revealed that this piece of shit was so selfish that he sold his sons soul (he didn't even mind to sell his own soul, that's how selfish is this man) to Mephisto for getting rich and famous. Norman Osborne is just pure evil and if he is getting an MCU entry he better be depicted as that rather than a good guy turned evil because of society cliche
And you missed his drug fueled time as the director of HAMMER
Wait I had no idea that happened that's hilarious.
He was also Iron Man who led the Dark Avengers during the Siege of Asgard during that drug fueled binge
Iron Patriot, so while all the others were more of a one to one replacement for the heroic Avengers, Norman’s ego let him be Iron Man AND Cap on that team.
Excellently stated!👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
>Norman Osborne is just pure evil and if he is getting an MCU entry he better be depicted as that rather than a good guy turned evil because of society cliche I wouldn't say he was depicted that sympathetically in the Raimi films. He is still portrayed as ruthlessly ambitious , as well as a father that is neglectful, and emotionally abusive, even before the Goblin formula or the loss of his own company. Now , it is true he is portrayed as more sympathetically in some ways, but even in some of the old comics, he has been given some sympathetic moments
Yeah in the comics, he is a bad parent. He loves his son Harry not as a son, but like a commodity to take on the frickin osborne legacy, that's why he is embarassed of him and saw Peter as the son he never had. This legacy thing also hurt Harry that he tried to what his dad wanted by becoming the Green Goblin.Dude once kidnapped Peter to make him his legacy as the next Osborne,
Didn't he torture Peter to convince him to become his successor?
Oh yeah, his twisted imagination of thinking Peter is his legacy and wanted to make him an osborne. It's damn interesting that, As Norman Osborne his enmity is primarily with Peter Parker, while as Green Goblin it is with Spider-Man. Through power Norman demands control, while through power Peter seeks to serve.
There's also that insane bit where he kidnaps aunt May, replaces her with an actress he's altered to be identical to May, has her die. And then ages later after they finish grieving, reveal the real May is alive but now there's a thing he put in her head that will kill May if it's not removed but everyone else if it is removed. Convoluted but I loved that era.
I could understand where you're coming from but Venom isn't a villain anymore and hasn't been for decades. He's made up for his villain years by saving the world twice, saving New York during Spider-Island, dying to save others, and finally burying the hatchet with Spider-Man. They're even friends now. I would say nemesis wise, Doc Ock is Spidey's nemesis. But the Green Goblin (Harry or Norman) is Peter Parker's archnemsis. Green Goblin always screwed around with his personal life, while Otto was the biggest threat to his professional life (Master Planner Saga, Sinister 6, the fact Otto killed him). I personally lean a bit towards Gobby however.
>they’re even friends now Not even that, but Peter donned the symbiote again to fight Norman and seemingly came to an understanding with each other
Yep. I think it started in Venom: Space Knight (when Flash had the suit) that the symbiote and Peter started to reach an understanding. Then it was finalized during the Red Goblin arc. And that's just the symbiote. Eddie was always coming around to Pete, but they finally became friends in the recent Venom run by Donny Cates. Which, I would recommend.
Big fan of Cates’ run
Same here. Topped off all of the character development throughout the years and then some. Additionally, I found it to be a good follow-up to Costa's run. Sure, there's some retcons and other issues, but the run was amazing and overall one of my favorite Venom stories.
That sounds interesting. Haven't read comics since Superior Spider-Man began. Lots have happened since then I guess.
I always viewed Venom as Spider-Man's rival. I loved and feared him,, but I never looked at him as the ultimate villain, just the most terrifying and one of consistent Blockbuster/popcorn showdowns. I always viewed Green Goblin as Spider-Man's archnemesis ala his "Lex Luthor". Doc Ock was often depicted as the mastermind behind multiple Factions and plots, but I always felt that Spider-Man got the better of him more often than not, but Green Goblin? Sheesh. I despised him in certain runs.
So Venom is Bizarro in this analogy
Yes, that would fit well
Doppelgänger is already Spider-Man’s “Bizarro”.
I’d go with Superboy and Match. “I’m You, but BETTER.”
GG= joker
Batman + Spider-Man; Nemesis = Giggling Goblin
Idk I think Kingpin is more like Lex Luther.
That's a fair point, indeed. LL might be a bad comparison now that I think about it because GG and Kingpin are more sadistic and conniving to me. So maybe for me, a better comparison for GG is Vandal Savage minus the immortality. Obviously this isn't one to one parallel.
I mean I figured you said Lex because he is easily Superman's "arch-nemesis" and that is saying something when a different villain literally killed him once before
I honestly barely got to read any Green Goblin of Norman. but when I do I love him.
Truth. Norman's obsessed with Spidey. I think Doc Ock is cooler(Octopus vs Spider) but his hatred is far more pure. Like, Norman sometimes has the weird love/hate thing.
Venom hasn’t been a villain for over a decade. His arch nemesis is, has been, and will always be Norman
I think it’s GG, he literally banged spider-man’s girl friend at one point
That was recently retconned. He did however throw that girlfriend off a bridge
But wasnt there like an entire series about gwens illegitimate children? What happened to them lol
They made a major appearance in the latest run. The retcon was during that run and made them test tube babies made by Harry. I dont know how to put up spoilers so that's as clear as I'm getting.
Wait so harry tricked both gwen and norman into thinking they were together (Since gwen apparently told MJ)? I wont say the retcon wasnt needed but damn the story is just getting more convoluted now lol
Throw in some more Mephisto and pretty much. I'm not even kidding.
Mysterio worked out the delusions of that one.
Mephisto storylines range from dealing with Doctor Doom trying to kill him too….this mess/thing
He is in the original Infinity Gauntlet, but he might as well be a background character there.
Oh ffs...
Maybe... maybe Harry's his real nemesis...
The best part is if you just say “Green Goblin” is Spidey’s archenemy, it could apply to Norman OR Harry. Or if you say “the Goblin” it could also mean Hobgoblin
How could you forget about Corn of Coblin?
“Fried Goblin, Shrimp Goblin, Goblin on Toast!”
I forgot about the part where she told MJ everything. Maybe he brainwashed MJ too? Jeeeeez
Turns out spidermans most consistent nemesis is retcons.
Genuine lol
Just for future reference; spoiler tag is: > ! text ! < with no spaces between the exclamation point, angled brackets, and the text
They are now clones made by harry so they can be vessels for his revenge against his father
It's... confusing
Yeah, but it's way better than before
It's all bad lmao just delete it from history I beg
It would be good to just erase it, but at least they changed it
But before the retcon it was diabolical. The retcon also doesn’t change that he definitely WOULD have done it.
A great point.
That has since been retconed to be Harry instead of Norman.
Didn’t Norman get tricked into banging Mysterio?
I think Mysterio tricked Logan into banging the whole x men
Logan doesn't need to be tricked, Logan just bangs.
What the shit?
He’s joking. We know that Mysterio helped brainwash Norman into thinking he banged Gwen. A joke is that Mysterio instead used an illusion to appear as Gwen and then he fucked Norman
Oh god, thank heavens it’s a joke. That scared the absolute hell out of me.
Really? Harry is a bullshit friend
Harry tricked Norman. He didn’t bang Gwen. Unless he did during a different instance that’s unrelated to this one
That's why Peter had to put some dirt in his eye.
The retcom made it to be all a ilusion planted in their minds by stroom and mysterio
Yeah we don't really talk about that one
And then killed her too!
Spider-man has multiple times in the comics corrected people when they say Doc Ock is his greatest villain and said that Green Goblin is, which is fair from Peters point of view considering he’s the most personally connected to Peter through Harry and he killed his girlfriend. He says it multiple times but I know for sure he says it in his tie in with Shang-chi to the Shadowlands event
Now that I think about it in 3 of the most recent origins for ock Norman was responsible
Green Goblin, he's the complete antithesis to Spider-man. Even in his last moments as Osborne was dying in Spider-man: Life Story; his dying words were I hate you with utter disgust in his face. Also boasted to Spider-man's other rogues that he killed his girlfriend with a sick smile to compliment him as he left.
Green Goblin is Peter Parker’s greatest enemy cause he knows his secret identity. Doc Ock is Spider-Mans greatest enemy, but not Peter Parker’s. And venom is the reverse-flash of Peter Parker/Spider-Man I’ve always seen green goblin as his arch nemesis.
I see green goblin as his arch nemesis. And I see venom as a threat to peters family
Does Norman know Parker's identity again? I know it was erased while he was running the Thunderbolts.
Yeah. As of finale of Slott's run.
Spider-Man’s nemesis is honestly Peter Parker. Their goals are constantly conflicting with each other and they keep ruining each others lives
i'm glad im not the only one! i saw this post and thought "it's obviously... HIMSELF"
Spider-Man is interesting cause he doesn’t have a traditional arch nemesis. Norman’s Green Goblin died in 1973, and then about a year later Harry briefly became the Goblin before “losing his memory”. Four years later in 1978 we had another Green Goblin story where Harry’s therapist is revealed to have stolen all the Goblin stuff. Harry then becomes the Green Goblin again in 1989 over ten years later, and this sets the stage for his death. During all this time, honestly, the Kingpin was probably the closest thing to an arch nemesis to Spider-Man as he is by far the villain Spider-Man encounters the most. The Hobgoblin was also heavily involved, and even had way more appearances than the Green Goblin did before his resurrection. Doc Ock was technically Spider-Man’s arch nemesis before even the Green Goblin — Norman and Peter didn’t even meet until he was in college. Ock unmasked him, caused the death of Betty’s brother, involved Aunt May in a criminal plot, was the focus of “If This Be My Destiny” which is a seminal Spider-Man story, and almost killed the Black Cat while she was dating Peter. Once Norman came back from the dead he became more of a traditional arch nemesis to Spider-Man, but it took a while to get there. Venom is really more of an anti-hero that just personally hates Spider-Man, so while he’s emotionally closer to Peter I don’t think he’s necessarily THE arch nemesis. Miles Warren could be argued to be another arch nemesis just because of the impact he’s had on Peter’s life but, again, I don’t really see him as THE arch nemesis. By now Norman and Peter have the longest history — even if it it is super convoluted and comic book-y — so I’d say Green Goblin ultimately wins.
I think Doc Ock. Especially with the later comics when he takes control of Peters body.
Initially yes, but I think like venom he becomes more of a rival... A supieror spiderman if you will 😏
Agreed. Doc Ock even spares Peter in recent issues from the wrath of the sinister war. So really Venom and Otto aren’t consistently bad enough to outmatch the Goblin.
To be fair, Norman was helping Peter too
100% but Norman and the goblin aren’t really the same the way I sort it.
Take your upvote and get out
His nemesis is obviously big wheel
Stiltman erasure.
Sony
My brain always says green goblin My heart always says doc ock
J. Jonah Jameson obviously!
I see Venom more as a rival than nemisis
I think its norman osborn i mean the man killed his first true love
Thinking that green goblin, fucked (so happy that it got rebooted) and killed his girlfriend, kidnapped his aunt to nake him think she was dead, destroyed his best friend life so he could get him ( even thought it was his own son) Norman Osborn is by far his arch nemesis
[удалено]
I would still say the Green Goblin because he is the ultimate evil mirror of Spider-Man. He wears a mask, cracks jokes at his victims, and moves through the New York skyline like it's his playground. As Norman Osborn he comes from an upper-class background, never cared for his family and the concept of power and responsibility never even entered his fucking head. Also like Ock, the Green Goblin matches Spider-Man as a scientific genius, which Venom doesn't.
Over time, Venom slowly became more of a his own Jack Sparrow type anti-hero, while Goblin is fully a spider-villain.
Used to think it was Venom but I would say Green Goblin followed by Doc Ock since Venom is more of an anti hero
Goblin
Definitely Gobby.
I think it’s GG but special runner ups for Doc Ock and Hobgoblin.
At the end of the day, Norman Osborn takes things to a much more personal level, and unless I'm mistaken, he's the only one of the three to be a current enemy to Peter. Ock may have taken over Peter's body, but Norman's the one who has done, and continues to do, the most trauma to Peter.
Green goblin hands down, the way he fits in with oscorp and the lore, and how he is both a genius and incredibly powerful, and don’t even get me started on how the rivalry was built up to norman killing gwen stacy, and in another unverse, literally impregnating her.
Someone here said that Green Goblin is Peter Parker’s greatest enemy and Doc Ock is Spider-Man’s greatest enemy, and this is dead-on. I would also argue that Kingpin is an honorable-mention here since he’s badly messed up Spidey for decades.
I always thought that line never made sense. The Green Goblin had no beef with Peter Parker before he found out he was Spider-Man.
That’s a fair point, but Green Goblin discovered Spider-Man’s identity very early on in their history and went after Spidey by going after Peter’s loved ones.
That part makes sense as to why the Green Goblin is a more personal enemy for Peter, so in that sense he is Peter Parker's greatest enemy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Ock is Spider-Man's greater enemy right? The second part isn't necessarily true just because the first part is.
You know, that’s a fair point. I think I have to amend what I said and say instead that Green Goblin is Spidey’s greatest foe because of his hatred for both of Spidey’s personas. Doc Ock is definitely a close second though, and I stand by Kingpin as an honorable-mention for sure.
I do think Ock is a close second, and I would name Venom and Hobgoblin as honorable mentions. Kingpin likewise was his archenemy in certain versions like Spider-Man TAS. I do think it speaks to the strength of Spider-Man as a character and of his rogues gallery that he can have multiple archenemies.
He definitely has the best rogues gallery in Marvel.
Doc Ock may be Spidey's intellectual equal, but Green Goblin has committed more unforgivable acts of cruelty against Spider-Man & Peter Parker. He got Gwen Stacy pregnant & was responsible for her death, conned Spidey into thinking paid actors were Peter's dead parents come back to life to mess with him, tried to torture & brainwash Spidey into becoming the next Green Goblin, faked Aunt May's death AND orchestrated the Clone Saga
Venom, Doc Ock, and/or Green Goblin
I would say doc ock b/c He’s been there since the beginning
Yeah I mean he has but idk he lacks the same fear that peter feels around green goblin or venom
I don’t fear doc but I fear his mind. That’s, a different kind of evil.
So... this is a hard question to answer. Norman killed Gwen and tormented Peter frequently, always a villain. Otto killed Captain Stacy inadvertently, always respected Peter as a foe, took his body and his life and watched him die horrifically and unceremoniously, became a hero in Peter's name, is back to his nefarious ways which does not make any sense but comic books. Venom (Brock and his symbiote) have such a fleshed out back story that it almost makes them bictims of circumstance who made terrible choices and took no responsibility and blamed Peter and tormented him and his family constantly but teamed up with Peter and even entrusted his child with Peter. Based on the whole picture, I say Otto. Venom is a friend now. Norman's an asshole who's basically a one trick pony, Carnage has more depth. Otto is number one.
Well i always thought Venom… but he hasn’t been a villain in quite a while… so I’d say Norman… he literally banged his wife… Dan Slott is a close second tho…
Girlfriend* Norman banged Gwen who Peter never married.
It’s definitely green goblin
The Green Goblin, all day and every day.
I think Spider-Man's greatest arch-nemesis is Peter Parker and Peter Parker's greatest arch-nemesis is Spider-Man.
Screwball. Obviously.
I think spider man stories are best when his arch-nemesis is his own secret identity. The tension and friction between Peter Parker trying to have a personal life and balance that with saving the city from super villains
Survivors guilt.
For me, it Green Goblin, Doc Oc, Vulture and Sandman. Also can't forget Flash Thompson (the original villain) I read a book with all the original comics, when I was a kid. The modern me says Venom and Kraven.
Brooo flash Thomason is the original nemesis
Good question. Maybe JJJ
Money on a serious note I always saw the Goblin as his arch enemy mostly because I grew up with the First Spider-Man movie
Doctor Octopus is Spider-Man’s arch nemesis while Green Goblin is Peter Parker’s arch nemesis.
Definitely Big Wheel
If I had to pick I would probably go with GG but I've never really viewed Spider-Man as having one specific arch enemy. I've always viewed him as having multiple.
Venom is Spider-man’s foil not his nemesis
Green Goblin tbh venom does seem like a good candidate but venom and spidey are more frenemies plus Norman killed Gwen Stacy soooo…
Venom is a cool anti-Spider-Man on surface-level, but the character is kind of useless without a host and his entire deal is messing with Spider-Man only as far as actual villainy goes. Venom has no other ambition as a villain. There's no interesting dynamic between the two or an intellectual level to their relationship, which only lessened once Venom turned to being an anti-hero, Carnage got involved, and now they have to work together a lot of the time. Growing up, I'd definitely say Goblin was definitely his arch-nemesis, but now I'm tied between Goblin and Ock. Both have interesting dynamics and have proven themselves to be major threats to Spider-Man and the wider world. Green Goblin, specifically Norman Osborn, has plenty of ambition and alternative goals and there's a very interesting dynamic between him and Spider-Man, compounded by Peter's friendship with Harry. He's crazy, he's super smart, and very strong, with the vast resources Peter does not have. There's a lot of similarities in their passions that have been sent towards opposite moral ends. Furthermore, the Dark Reign phase of Norman proved he can be just as much of a threat without putting on the Goblin suit. Norman makes his nemesis status serious with his continually twisted ways to fuck with Peter specifically. Norman's definitely the most inherently dangerous traditional villain to Spider-Man directly, I'd say. Ock though has moved up in my tiers massively over the past decade. I realize he's always been arch-nemesis material, but he's been downplayed in a lot of other media, like the 90s Cartoon. The man has nearly taken over the world a few times and I'd argue he has more ambition than even the Green Goblin since his plans kinda straight up ignore Spider-Man for the most part for other goals, either seeing Spidey as a problem to account for or (leading up to Superior) a means to an end. Heck, he beat the Avengers like it was nothing and only lost later on because Spider-Man is so specifically familiar with Ock's bullshit. There's a lot of parallels that makes him extremely similar to Peter, personality wise, except put on a different path. What has me torn about making him the de facto nemesis is that Superior Spider-Man made him such an interesting, yet conflicted hero, despite all his previous misdeeds and his ultimate conquering of Spider-Man, that he actually made himself out to be a decent heroic figure for himself... Until the Mephisto bullshit ruined Superior Vol 2 (I am still very mad about that). Overall, I'd say Venom was a cool powerful villain with not a lot of staying power nemesis-wise because he has no real organic parallels to Spider-Man beyond just being an abandoned alien boyfriend mimic.
Sony
Who made The Amazing Spider-Man 2? Colombia Pictures? I'm going to go with them.
Poverty He was fighting crime but his power to do so was broken over finishing school and paying debts. Spiderman was a brilliant inventor with amazing skill and he had to beat up bank robers, muggers and save people from structure fires on a schedule.
I always assumed that Venom was written as the true Anti Spiderman, especially with the Spider-Sense dead zone, but when it comes to personality, I feel like Doc Ock and Peter are the most frustrated but respectful with one another, and that feels like what an Arch Nemesis is supposed to be
Jonah J. Jameson
Yeah Venom just looks perfect as the other side of Spidey (spider-man 3)
Not green goblin but Norman Osborn is definitely his nemesis, and venom is more like a rival than a nemesis now
I’ve always believed his greatest nemesis was himself. Spider-Man is Peter Parker’s greatest gift, but also curse.
Sinister six
It's always been Doc Ock for me
GG #1, Otto, especially after Superior, #2.
It's the Green Goblin, now I can go into detail but I'll just give you [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/35zzme/my_favorite_moment_of_superior_spiderman_ssm_31/) There are so many times the Green Goblin has proven himself to be his arch-nemesis in the main universe but I think he was best handled in the ultimate universe.
Gonna say J.J. Who is the antithesis or The Friendly Neighborhood Dogooder.
SHOCKER I WILL CHASE YOU TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL
It's Venom for me for the exact same reason. I also really like Green Goblin
Spider-Man is Spider-Mans arch nemesis. Dude just can't get out of his own way.
The guy that killed Uncle Ben.
Green Goblin for me. I saw him much more in the movies or show. Venom was more like a temporary big threat and I didn't read comics so it was basically just seeing him rarely on Sat morning cartoons and then playing as him as an Ally in Maximum Carnage. Edit: and Willem Dafoe has the best performance ever as a Spider-Man villain, unless Triple J counts lol
Spiderman/doctor octupus: year one and Superior Spiderman solidify in my mind that Otto is the perfect foil/archnemesis to Peter Goblin of course is second
I'm with [Rich Evans](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLzW9dSEx6I&t=700s) from Red Letter Media on this one: Spider-Man doesn't really have a true archenemy in the way that Batman has the Joker.