Great picture angles to make it look like it's in the middle of the country, but the actual reality from the streetview...
[https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6048056,-0.1117707,3a,75y,75.68h,95.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYFLiy0a13WmhOa63IRhvfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6048056,-0.1117707,3a,75y,75.68h,95.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYFLiy0a13WmhOa63IRhvfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu)
Its in the park as well, they will have kids, drunks and homeless messing with the place at night, pissing on it etc. Also Im guessing this used to be public toilets.
This house was posted almost a year ago, 70 year lease (looks like theyāve dropped 50k off the price?)
https://www.reddit.com/r/SpottedonRightmove/s/ClpPeGre1C
Yes it does, because if ground rent is over Ā£250 (or Ā£1,000 in London) then it's classified as an assured tenancy under the Housing Act 1988. If there's more than 3 months' ground rent owing, the Landlord/freeholder can apply to the court for possession.
Of course, freeholders can do this for any arrears of ground rent, but the difference is that, if ground rent is under the Ā£250/Ā£1,000 limit it's a different process and under s.146 Law of Property Act 1925 the freeholder is obliged to tell the mortgage lender, who will usually pay it so that the lease isn't forfeited, and then add it to the borrower's mortgage debt.
But if the ground rent is over Ā£250/Ā£1,000 and the freeholder goes for possession under the Housing Act 1988 instead, there's no obligation to tell the mortgage lender, leaving it at risk of losing the property it's lent money on, and there's nothing they can do about it.
https://www.sharratts-london.co.uk/ground-rent-issues-on-property-sales/
So for that reason, as well as the short lease, the property is unmortgageable. A short lease can be overcome, but that ground rent is ridiculous.
It's such a horrible deal.
You are essentially paying a huge sum of money to rent this house for 70 years and then need to continue paying a high ground rent and use your own money to maintain it.
Wow, I missed that in the description. They want you to give them your life savings for a 70 year rental, pay Ā£12.5k annually, maintain the property at your own expense and run a business to their liking.
I want to call it a legalised scam.
Sadly this is a thing... locally a cafe was shut down for serving cakes and doughnuts because the land owner doesn't want them doing anything 'unhealthy'. The farm shop on the same bit of land has a bakery selling cakes on site so it's all a bit bullshit
I mean it was a vegan cafe using only products from the farm so there wasn't really a difference in wealth of their customers.
Edit: The same site is home to a charity selling craft materials and a donation point for humanitarian aid. More likely it's the proportion of unhealthy to healthy products, the farm shop is 90% fresh produce and eco friendly refills etc. the cafe only offered unhealthy food options.
"It's such a horrible deal."
true, but no more of a "horrible deal" than any other property for sale in london. i'm guessing if it were being sold as a freehold, the price would be over Ā£1m.
Incorrect.
It is not because it is a bad deal, it is because in this particular case the property could be repossessed without any mortgage lender being notified.
Therefore, no lender would lend on the property because they have no security.
I'm guessing you are not familiar with london prices if you don't understand that getting a property for Ā£700,000 less than the market rate because of the high ground rent is no worse a deal than paying 1 million for an equivalent freehold property with no ground rent.
My partner and I used to walk past that daily when we lived in north London and fantasize about living there, but with the ground rent and that bath tub it's a definite No. Another dream shattered š.
Ā£300k in cash, then stamp duty, Ā£1000 a month ground rent directly to the council, council tax on top, and the council still want to maintain control over everything that happens there.
The agents description seems to suggest that preferably youād be keeping a small herd of dairy cows
"Haringey council (the freeholder) aspire for the next live/work commercial tenant to operate the property as something of benefit to the local community, although any business will be considered (present owner is a photographer!)"
Um... How about, no.
Wtf is a commercial tenant? Thatās what you call people who rent retail space. But they want an employee to run itā¦.and why would they also then pay a mortgage? The fucking audacity of this council. Itās giving āexciting opportunity to bake me a bunch of cakes and pay me to post them on my social mediaā
They don't want much...!Ā
It's tiny, and that's before you've accounted for the space required for the kit for whatever business it is you plan to run for the benefit of the local community.Ā
Even local artists need space to store their art materials.
"describe the building as having the appearance of an āC19 Ornamental Dairyā, which is not far from its future potential." So does that mean the agent belives it's mostly fit to house cattle? Lol
The reason cash only is the ground rent. If your ground rent is over Ā£250 per annum, then you might face some issues. Firstly, if your ground rent is above this Ā£250 threshold (or Ā£1000 in London) and you fall into 3 months of ground rent arrears (debt) then your landlord has the right to repossess the property.
My guess is that you could challenge this as it seams onerous. And therefore illegal in the U.K. after the 2022 ground rent act.
It's likely tiny, too. Unmortgageable in every way. It used to be possible to buy more years on a lease, but this place would only remotely be worthwhile if it was Freehold. The current housing market is disgusting. For buyers and for renters. We need more social housing, so the low paid (which is most of us!) can even begin to have any disposable income ever again.
Man the council really are taking the piss with that ground rent 12500 a year plus band C council tax why not call it an even 16k a year. Plus the current owner wants 300k for less than a 100 year lease š good luck with that buddy,
The school which is named and located very close to this is known for having some of the worst pupils around, so would not want to have these terrors passing by morning and afternoon. Great little house but in an awful area, crime ridden and filthy.
Nothing makes me angrier than leasehold. I seriously donāt understand the point. Why would I pay Ā£300k up front just to rent a house for a limited amount of time, and then pay rent on top of my mortgage? If the benefit of owning a house is to own an asset that I can sell on if I need to, and have a place to live without paying rent when I retire, how does a leasehold provide any of that? Surely itāll be unsellable when Iāve lived there for a while and there are only 20 years left on the lease, and Iāll still have to pay rent once the mortgage is paid off. Make it make sense.
Pretty sure that chimney with wood burner is the 'central ' heating (pun intended)... I'm sure I've heard you can't mortgage a property without a working boiler? Or maybe that only applies to houses with central heating...
Whyyyy have all those arty pics of doors and windows that highlight the peeling paint down to bare wood on all the frames? The second you buy that you've got to sort all those frames.
Staggering (not surprising given the entrenched interests) that leasehold continues to be a thing. And people wonder why the property market (and the larger economy) never seems to get better.
Amazing gaff.
[https://www.google.com/maps/place/High+Rd,+London+N22+8JR,+UK/@51.6049173,-0.1123493,50a,35y,99.08h,47.08t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876195b8d4cba2f:0xf1cbbedf8457a24b!8m2!3d51.6057036!4d-0.1112674!16s%2Fg%2F1vkxlrgv?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/High+Rd,+London+N22+8JR,+UK/@51.6049173,-0.1123493,50a,35y,99.08h,47.08t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876195b8d4cba2f:0xf1cbbedf8457a24b!8m2!3d51.6057036!4d-0.1112674!16s%2Fg%2F1vkxlrgv?entry=ttu)
\~\~\~
When it listed last year the ground rent was 12.5K per year:
[https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/249715-exceptionally-high-ground-rent-on-an-old-home-any-particular-reason/](https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/249715-exceptionally-high-ground-rent-on-an-old-home-any-particular-reason/)
\~\~\~
The market doesn't like it thus far \[it's been on for 12 months\] so that price will have to come down:
*Pr*i*ce Change History*
*07/05/2024* *Initial asking price: Ā£300,000*
*Additional Price Change History*
*03/05/2024 - Price changed from Ā£350,000 to Ā£300,000*
*18/04/2024 - Initial asking price: Ā£350,000*
*Overall change: -14.3% (-Ā£50,000)*
\~\~\~
More info:
[https://www.countryliving.com/uk/homes-interiors/property/a44932964/mushroom-house-for-sale-north-london/](https://www.countryliving.com/uk/homes-interiors/property/a44932964/mushroom-house-for-sale-north-london/)
\~\~\~
When last sold:
[https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/search/summary/suIczvHuDbqsaO7tNkgWbQ==](https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/search/summary/suIczvHuDbqsaO7tNkgWbQ==)
WTF. Surely thatās an error. You can get a 2 bed flat for Ā£1600pcm in Wood Green and my guess is Ā£1000 is close to what people are paying for a 2 bed council flat round there.
If the council own it and the land why donāt they just rent it out to an artist or whatever?
Who has Ā£300,000 cash, wants to pay that amount in ground rent, and is a creative/business owner? Iām assuming nobody, as this is the second time Iāve seen this on here and Iām sure it was a few months ago when l last saw it.
Also ārecently rewildedā lol.
They MUST have forgotten to add the decimal point in the ground rent, SURELY?!? Ā£125.00 would be far more reasonable than Ā£12500.
Edit - also shocking broadband speeds for the location.
It's not even viable as an investment. Max rent would be around Ā£19,200 pa, which is Ā£6,700 after ground rent. So 2.5% pa return, this is even without considering the 70 year lease length or the fact its listed. Price needs to be around Ā£150k to even be worth considering. Land registry reports it last sold for Ā£180k on 17 November 2015 which is still crazy high.
Looks like a cashcow for the council, and some idiot fell for it buying it almost 10 years ago, now the seller is hoping another idiot will fall for it.
Great picture angles to make it look like it's in the middle of the country, but the actual reality from the streetview... [https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6048056,-0.1117707,3a,75y,75.68h,95.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYFLiy0a13WmhOa63IRhvfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6048056,-0.1117707,3a,75y,75.68h,95.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYFLiy0a13WmhOa63IRhvfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu)
Jeez, right on top of the main road with one of those flimsy Privacy screen things along the fence...
Looks like a nervous Cyclops peering over the fence
ššš
Its in the park as well, they will have kids, drunks and homeless messing with the place at night, pissing on it etc. Also Im guessing this used to be public toilets.
Perspective is everything!
Eek. No thanks
Lol
Never seen washing machines displayed on the pavement before : s
seeing N22 was a shocking surprise... the ground rent however, was very sobering. only wanting cash too?? hmm
They donāt mention how long is left on the lease - wonder if itās running out and therefore not mortgageable
This house was posted almost a year ago, 70 year lease (looks like theyāve dropped 50k off the price?) https://www.reddit.com/r/SpottedonRightmove/s/ClpPeGre1C
70 years loooool
I think the ground rent itself makes it unmortgageable
Yes it does, because if ground rent is over Ā£250 (or Ā£1,000 in London) then it's classified as an assured tenancy under the Housing Act 1988. If there's more than 3 months' ground rent owing, the Landlord/freeholder can apply to the court for possession. Of course, freeholders can do this for any arrears of ground rent, but the difference is that, if ground rent is under the Ā£250/Ā£1,000 limit it's a different process and under s.146 Law of Property Act 1925 the freeholder is obliged to tell the mortgage lender, who will usually pay it so that the lease isn't forfeited, and then add it to the borrower's mortgage debt. But if the ground rent is over Ā£250/Ā£1,000 and the freeholder goes for possession under the Housing Act 1988 instead, there's no obligation to tell the mortgage lender, leaving it at risk of losing the property it's lent money on, and there's nothing they can do about it. https://www.sharratts-london.co.uk/ground-rent-issues-on-property-sales/ So for that reason, as well as the short lease, the property is unmortgageable. A short lease can be overcome, but that ground rent is ridiculous.
Are you a lawyer? Or did you suffer having to understand this when buying a house
I'm a lawyer.
Big up Essex
Really useful thank you
It's probably unmortgagable.
And itās grade 2 listed, which is always fun!
No lender would accept that ground rent do youāre right
True but apply for a lease extension and it reverts to Peppercorn
Yeah and they might ask Ā£1 million for the lease extension. I donāt know. Are there rules. Itās a steal if you could get away with it
Section 42 application forces it through at a price but was doesnāt help is that Ground Rent is part of the equation
It's such a horrible deal. You are essentially paying a huge sum of money to rent this house for 70 years and then need to continue paying a high ground rent and use your own money to maintain it.
And run a business that benefits the community. Does the freeholder normally get a say in who buys a property?
Wow, I missed that in the description. They want you to give them your life savings for a 70 year rental, pay Ā£12.5k annually, maintain the property at your own expense and run a business to their liking. I want to call it a legalised scam.
Itās even more odd in that the freeholder appears to be the council. No idea why theyād care
Sadly this is a thing... locally a cafe was shut down for serving cakes and doughnuts because the land owner doesn't want them doing anything 'unhealthy'. The farm shop on the same bit of land has a bakery selling cakes on site so it's all a bit bullshit
Cafe = poor people eating sugar = bad Farm shop = rich people eating sugar = good?
Cafe = poor people eating sugar = bad Farm shop = rich people eating sugar = good?
I mean it was a vegan cafe using only products from the farm so there wasn't really a difference in wealth of their customers. Edit: The same site is home to a charity selling craft materials and a donation point for humanitarian aid. More likely it's the proportion of unhealthy to healthy products, the farm shop is 90% fresh produce and eco friendly refills etc. the cafe only offered unhealthy food options.
"It's such a horrible deal." true, but no more of a "horrible deal" than any other property for sale in london. i'm guessing if it were being sold as a freehold, the price would be over Ā£1m.
There's a reason this property is unmortgageable. It's a significantly worse "deal" than any other property in London.
Incorrect. It is not because it is a bad deal, it is because in this particular case the property could be repossessed without any mortgage lender being notified. Therefore, no lender would lend on the property because they have no security. I'm guessing you are not familiar with london prices if you don't understand that getting a property for Ā£700,000 less than the market rate because of the high ground rent is no worse a deal than paying 1 million for an equivalent freehold property with no ground rent.
The market rate for a tiny 2 bed in N22 is Ā£1mil?
You can rent a two-bedroom house in that area for Ā£2k a month. Paying Ā£1k a month ON TOP of Ā£300k is a terrible deal.
Stop looking after the garden or even cutting the grass. Agents. āthe garden has been re-wilded in the last yearā
Mine has been re-wilded for a while now. Glad to do my bit for the wildlife āŗļø
I have always said my garden is a wildlife garden
The inside is disappointing tbh, it looks like they bodge jobbed it and then tried to pass it off as rustic. That bathroom is horrible.
Yes Iād love to take a bath in a trough
My friends Labrador highly recommends it.
Having had to replace the insides of a cistern before, I need to know where the cistern is here. Am I break ming through the wall for it?
It does look like youād need to break ming yes. A lot of ming
FOOLS! MING BREAKS FOR NO MAN! MWAHHAHAHAHAHA! [thunderclap]
Yeah if I had to show someone a picture of what I thought a haunted bathroom would look like, Iād show them that one
My partner and I used to walk past that daily when we lived in north London and fantasize about living there, but with the ground rent and that bath tub it's a definite No. Another dream shattered š.
Ā£300k in cash, then stamp duty, Ā£1000 a month ground rent directly to the council, council tax on top, and the council still want to maintain control over everything that happens there. The agents description seems to suggest that preferably youād be keeping a small herd of dairy cows
"Haringey council (the freeholder) aspire for the next live/work commercial tenant to operate the property as something of benefit to the local community, although any business will be considered (present owner is a photographer!)" Um... How about, no.
Wtf is a commercial tenant? Thatās what you call people who rent retail space. But they want an employee to run itā¦.and why would they also then pay a mortgage? The fucking audacity of this council. Itās giving āexciting opportunity to bake me a bunch of cakes and pay me to post them on my social mediaā
They don't want much...!Ā It's tiny, and that's before you've accounted for the space required for the kit for whatever business it is you plan to run for the benefit of the local community.Ā Even local artists need space to store their art materials.
How much is the ground rent? I swear I've read the Rightmove listing 3 times and can't see it anywhere
Ā£12,500 per year.
You have to expand the āleaseholdā section to see it
This cropped up here last year and I think it has basically halved in priceā¦
The purchase price is small fry compared to that ground rent, thatās the real āpriceā here.
Yup
"describe the building as having the appearance of an āC19 Ornamental Dairyā, which is not far from its future potential." So does that mean the agent belives it's mostly fit to house cattle? Lol
They want you to run it like the little old lady in the childrenās book āA squash and a squeezeā when she takes in her hen, goat, pig and cow
The bath looks like a cattle trough so yeah šš¼
The downstairs feels a lot like The Burrow
I was thinking it was more like the home of Xenophelius Lovegood! Similar thoughts though.
The reason cash only is the ground rent. If your ground rent is over Ā£250 per annum, then you might face some issues. Firstly, if your ground rent is above this Ā£250 threshold (or Ā£1000 in London) and you fall into 3 months of ground rent arrears (debt) then your landlord has the right to repossess the property. My guess is that you could challenge this as it seams onerous. And therefore illegal in the U.K. after the 2022 ground rent act.
I absolutely love it, but I would never even consider buying because of the ground rent.
And having to run a business the suits hanringey council
r/deathstairs
Quite like it, but after 10 seconds of considerationā¦.. nope.
It's likely tiny, too. Unmortgageable in every way. It used to be possible to buy more years on a lease, but this place would only remotely be worthwhile if it was Freehold. The current housing market is disgusting. For buyers and for renters. We need more social housing, so the low paid (which is most of us!) can even begin to have any disposable income ever again.
It looks tiny in the photos, and a very awkward shape, with no storage at all. Iām sure someone would be comfortable thereā¦ but not me.
Short leaseholds are poison
In this case, a short leasehold would be wonderful, because the ground rent will drop drastically when you extend.
This place is a big advert for lease reform.
Man the council really are taking the piss with that ground rent 12500 a year plus band C council tax why not call it an even 16k a year. Plus the current owner wants 300k for less than a 100 year lease š good luck with that buddy,
The school which is named and located very close to this is known for having some of the worst pupils around, so would not want to have these terrors passing by morning and afternoon. Great little house but in an awful area, crime ridden and filthy.
Is this a former public park ālodgeā or even a former park toilet block? š¬
Im getting Weasley Burrow vibes. I love the quirkiness. Shame about the ground rent and location.
I paid Ā£370k cash for one bedroom down the road in Hackney. Plus I have a tiny allotment here. But I would seriously considering buying this.
Nothing makes me angrier than leasehold. I seriously donāt understand the point. Why would I pay Ā£300k up front just to rent a house for a limited amount of time, and then pay rent on top of my mortgage? If the benefit of owning a house is to own an asset that I can sell on if I need to, and have a place to live without paying rent when I retire, how does a leasehold provide any of that? Surely itāll be unsellable when Iāve lived there for a while and there are only 20 years left on the lease, and Iāll still have to pay rent once the mortgage is paid off. Make it make sense.
The bath reminds me of an animal feeding trough
āGarden rewildedā the new euphemism for overgrown
Yes, that is literally what it means. What is your point
So could you clean up the garden or does someone own that
Pretty sure that chimney with wood burner is the 'central ' heating (pun intended)... I'm sure I've heard you can't mortgage a property without a working boiler? Or maybe that only applies to houses with central heating...
Whyyyy have all those arty pics of doors and windows that highlight the peeling paint down to bare wood on all the frames? The second you buy that you've got to sort all those frames.
Never knew gulag chic was in this year.
Used to drive past that regularly often wondered what it was like inside..
Absolute state of this, that bathroom is grim
Just over Ā£1000 a month on ground rent. Jesus. And that location. Surely unsellable. You'd have to be permanently high on acid to buy this surely
It would make a fun airbnb!
Staggering (not surprising given the entrenched interests) that leasehold continues to be a thing. And people wonder why the property market (and the larger economy) never seems to get better.
Amazing gaff. [https://www.google.com/maps/place/High+Rd,+London+N22+8JR,+UK/@51.6049173,-0.1123493,50a,35y,99.08h,47.08t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876195b8d4cba2f:0xf1cbbedf8457a24b!8m2!3d51.6057036!4d-0.1112674!16s%2Fg%2F1vkxlrgv?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/High+Rd,+London+N22+8JR,+UK/@51.6049173,-0.1123493,50a,35y,99.08h,47.08t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876195b8d4cba2f:0xf1cbbedf8457a24b!8m2!3d51.6057036!4d-0.1112674!16s%2Fg%2F1vkxlrgv?entry=ttu) \~\~\~ When it listed last year the ground rent was 12.5K per year: [https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/249715-exceptionally-high-ground-rent-on-an-old-home-any-particular-reason/](https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/249715-exceptionally-high-ground-rent-on-an-old-home-any-particular-reason/) \~\~\~ The market doesn't like it thus far \[it's been on for 12 months\] so that price will have to come down: *Pr*i*ce Change History* *07/05/2024* *Initial asking price: Ā£300,000* *Additional Price Change History* *03/05/2024 - Price changed from Ā£350,000 to Ā£300,000* *18/04/2024 - Initial asking price: Ā£350,000* *Overall change: -14.3% (-Ā£50,000)* \~\~\~ More info: [https://www.countryliving.com/uk/homes-interiors/property/a44932964/mushroom-house-for-sale-north-london/](https://www.countryliving.com/uk/homes-interiors/property/a44932964/mushroom-house-for-sale-north-london/) \~\~\~ When last sold: [https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/search/summary/suIczvHuDbqsaO7tNkgWbQ==](https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/search/summary/suIczvHuDbqsaO7tNkgWbQ==)
WTF. Surely thatās an error. You can get a 2 bed flat for Ā£1600pcm in Wood Green and my guess is Ā£1000 is close to what people are paying for a 2 bed council flat round there.
I'm used to seeing cows drink out of that bath.
Eclectic? More like rustic.
That place will be under water very soon! Not to mention the certainty of a nuke-type catastrophe floating up the Themes on a two-bob barge.
Ā£12,500 annually just for the land your own house sits upon.. š¤Æ
That ground rent has to be a typo.
Did they remove the ground rent? I looked through and did a search on the page for it but I canāt find it. How much is it?
It's in the data figures at the bottom of the expanded description. Apparently Ā£12500 but that's staggering!
Ah thank you I missed that! I am hoping that is a typo, because wow!
Oooooft that ground rent hurt my soul š¤Æ
If the council own it and the land why donāt they just rent it out to an artist or whatever? Who has Ā£300,000 cash, wants to pay that amount in ground rent, and is a creative/business owner? Iām assuming nobody, as this is the second time Iāve seen this on here and Iām sure it was a few months ago when l last saw it. Also ārecently rewildedā lol.
They MUST have forgotten to add the decimal point in the ground rent, SURELY?!? Ā£125.00 would be far more reasonable than Ā£12500. Edit - also shocking broadband speeds for the location.
Full of damp, and itās listed, you may as well burn your Ā£50 notes in the grate!
Bathroom's a bit grim
It's not even viable as an investment. Max rent would be around Ā£19,200 pa, which is Ā£6,700 after ground rent. So 2.5% pa return, this is even without considering the 70 year lease length or the fact its listed. Price needs to be around Ā£150k to even be worth considering. Land registry reports it last sold for Ā£180k on 17 November 2015 which is still crazy high. Looks like a cashcow for the council, and some idiot fell for it buying it almost 10 years ago, now the seller is hoping another idiot will fall for it.
Bet the owner wears a bandana and clothes made of hemp.